Mustachian England-Does it exist? Best place to raise a family?

[thefrugalnudists]

We are considering a move to England (or maybe in the UK in general) in the next 2-3 years or so.
The youngest of the kids is 1 month old and the older is going to be 2 in September. So by the time we get there they should be around 2-3 and 4-5 respectively.
We would love a town near a major or medium city where we wouldn't need a car ideally. My wife will be working as a software engineer in java specifically. Not sure how much a junior position would likely pay in England  so if it isn't too expensive an area that would also be ideal.
Is there a place where there are parks for the kids, good schools and where we can live a frugal Mustachian inspired life?

[warfreak2]

You can live a Mustachian life in most places in the UK. I recommend looking at London first; there are more job opportunities there and they tend to pay better. London is also the easiest place to not own a car, and despite its reputation for being expensive, there are quite affordable parts.

Cambridge is probably my second recommendation, it's a very nice place and good for cycling, but it may be harder to find a job.

[thefrugalnudists]

Thanks warfreak. Any areas of London that are family friendly, affordable and have some green space that you can direct us towards?

[warfreak2]

I lived in South Norwood/Thornton Heath for two years, it's walking distance from Crystal Palace Park and there's a few smaller park dotted around. Croydon is easy to reach by bike and there are tech jobs there; also, it's about 12 miles from Central London, where there are all of the tech jobs in the world*.

There's other affordable areas of course, but generally South of the river is better.

*Well, you know.

[thefrugalnudists]

Thanks again warfreak. I'll do some research right now!

[grantmeaname]

I didn't realize you were a Londoner!

If I'm moving back here in a year or so to a job in central London, and don't want to be twelve miles away (or out of pocket half my income for rent), what neighborhoods should I be looking at?

[warfreak2]

I didn't realize you were a Londoner!

If I'm moving back here in a year or so to a job in central London, and don't want to be twelve miles away (or out of pocket half my income for rent), what neighborhoods should I be looking at?

Oh, I'm not a Londoner any more. Like Mary Poppins, I go where I'm needed. (Since last Autumn, that's Brum, but I'm already planning my exit.)

If you want to live cheaply near Central London, house-sharing is probably the only option. (I guess on this forum, there's a good chance you were planning to house-share already). I'm not sure about particular areas, it depends whereabouts in Central London the job is, as that decides which direction you'd cycle in from.

[MichaelR]

I'm a tourist in London this week and I have already been impressed by the number of cyclists on the roads here. Great effort for a busy city.

[grantmeaname]

Yeah, I was already planning on that.

It's just so strange coming here - I think a night in my corporate housing is similar to a month's rent in my place in the US. Even when you get out of there and into ordinary housing it's five or six times more expensive!

[daverobev]

Might I suggest... Leighton Buzzard.

Why? Well, I used to live there, and there are fast trains into London Euston - 30 mins or something I think. But instead of paying thousands a month to rent, you pay hundreds.

Honestly not LB in particular, but unless you want to live the London life, commuting in on the really very good train system is the way to go.

Unless there are multiple people all working in the city, at which point the train passes might be more expensive.

Also, there are lots of jobs in the towns and cities that surround London - Hemel Hempstead, Watford, St. Albans, etc, etc, etc.

I mean, there are so many cities... the South East is busy (Essex, Kent, Herts, etc, etc, etc). Get up to the Midlands and there are still lots of things to see and do but it's less expensive to live. Move further north and it's cheaper again.

South West is more expensive to live and less going on in terms of jobs than the South East, AFAIK.

Wales... Hmm, well, Cardiff and the surrounds are busy, but mid and north Wales are much more rural. The north west of England is also less busy.

But yeah, possible to live frugally in most places. If you're going to work in London you'll get a London weighting to compensate for the silly prices.

[daverobev]

Hmm, and in order to raise a family, with no car.. well, cripes, there are.. um.. binders full of cities where it's possible.

Brighton if you're liberal (moderately expensive though), Nottingham (trams!), you know, everywhere has buses and trains. And you can bike year round (just get lights in the winter!!).

And pubs. Lots of pubs.

[Paul der Krake]

I didn't realize you were a Londoner!

If I'm moving back here in a year or so to a job in central London, and don't want to be twelve miles away (or out of pocket half my income for rent), what neighborhoods should I be looking at?

Start at Camden or even Russel Square if you're feeling lucky, and look within a 3-4 mile radius from there. Try befriending students from UCL/LSE/King's, they all live there. My younger brother who's your age currently has a room with friends around Chalk Farm for under 90pw. Not easy to find, but they do exist.

[grantmeaname]

So it's as much about finding a place well below market as it is picking somewhere where the going rate is reasonable?

[grantmeaname]

Might I suggest... Leighton Buzzard.

Why? Well, I used to live there, and there are fast trains into London Euston - 30 mins or something I think. But instead of paying thousands a month to rent, you pay hundreds.

If rent in LB is £400 or so and an annual rail pass is £5000 isn't that already up to £1000 a month, more than a cheap place in the city?

[kyanamerinas]

outside London, Manchester is also a great city.

[martynthewolf]

Hmm, and in order to raise a family, with no car.. well, cripes, there are.. um.. binders full of cities where it's possible.

Brighton if you're liberal (moderately expensive though), Nottingham (trams!), you know, everywhere has buses and trains. And you can bike year round (just get lights in the winter!!).

And pubs. Lots of pubs.

I'd second Nottingham (my hometown), nice city, really good public transport. Never cycled there so not sure what the infrastructure for that is like. I'm going to rep for Yorkshire, plenty of tech jobs, Leeds/Manchester/York probably not as high paying as London but it's a less manic pace of life (IMO) and it could work out cheaper.

[MarcherLady]

Bristol has quite good tech opportunities, though AFAIK it's reasonably expensive, but great for it's live music scene and to get out into the beautiful South West, Cotswolds  and Wales.  Yes, Cardiff also has good job opportunities, if you are prepared to commute from South Wales (very low COL) into Cardiff that could be a really good combination.  Leeds is also a buzzing city, with low COL areas within decent commutable distances, I'm not sure about tech jobs though.   All of those cities have a big student population, so shared housing is probably available easily.

 

[DrJohn]

You might find this handy:

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/heatmaps/

Like anywhere else, rents might not be so tightly pegged to property values.

Not sure where your type of work is located though...

There are some less expensive places to live near Manchester. 

Just waiting for the perennial North/South Divide argument to kick off...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL4GnWtjNXk.

[warfreak2]

Why? Well, I used to live there, and there are fast trains into London Euston - 30 mins or something I think.

So your total commute time, including time spent getting to Leighton Buzzard train stain, and time spent getting from Euston to your job (presumably on the tube?) is more like an hour, at the very least.

But instead of paying thousands a month to rent,

Who is suggesting paying thousands per month to rent? I paid £400 (including bills) in Zone 4, I knew someone who lived in Zone 2 for £475 (plus bills).

you pay hundreds.

Plus the cost of not only the train tickets (which consistently go up above inflation), but also the time you spend commuting. 2 hours a day for an optimistic 200 days/year comes to 400 hours/year, even assuming you only value your time at £12.50/hour (MMM uses $25/hour) that's, at a bare minimum, another £5k a year on top of the £5k season ticket. At this point it looks better to live in Central London.

Honestly not LB in particular, but unless you want to live the London life, commuting in on the really very good train system is the way to go.

Welcome to England, you must be new here. Let me introduce you to the local customs - In England, "on time" means "no more than 5 minutes late", and our trains are still usually only 80-90% "on time".

[Cpa Cat]

We're on a 3-5 year timeline for England. My husband and I would be moving to England fully retired (living on investment income) - so no jobs required. Any thoughts? I have family throughout.

[warfreak2]

We're on a 3-5 year timeline for England. My husband and I would be moving to England fully retired (living on investment income) - so no jobs required. Any thoughts? I have family throughout.

Awesome! If you have family in different places, I recommend visiting all of them to get a feel for each place.

Also, consider Wales and Scotland too, there are some really lovely parts and housing is usually cheaper.

[DrJohn]

We're on a 3-5 year timeline for England. My husband and I would be moving to England fully retired (living on investment income) - so no jobs required. Any thoughts? I have family throughout.

The Peak District is very nice.  Centrally located for England, not too expensive at all if you pick right.  Great if you like the outdoors and the rain.  But then I'm biased....  that is where I will be headed.  Eventually.

But I do agree with Mr Warfreak2- Wales and Scotland are also certainly worth a look, but I am not sure what will happen if Scotland votes "Yes" and gains independence from the UK.  But you have time to watch developments on that front.

[warfreak2]

but I am not sure what will happen if Scotland votes "Yes" and gains independence from the UK.

I suspect there would be very little difference in terms of cost of living. Their immigration policy would probably become a bit more liberal, though.

[Cpa Cat]

but I am not sure what will happen if Scotland votes "Yes" and gains independence from the UK.

I suspect there would be very little difference in terms of cost of living. Their immigration policy would probably become a bit more liberal, though.

My citizenship there is British, so it is a factor. But we'll definitely consider it!

[daverobev]

Might I suggest... Leighton Buzzard.

Why? Well, I used to live there, and there are fast trains into London Euston - 30 mins or something I think. But instead of paying thousands a month to rent, you pay hundreds.

If rent in LB is £400 or so and an annual rail pass is £5000 isn't that already up to £1000 a month, more than a cheap place in the city?

To you and warfreak: Obviously it depends on what you want and need. One bed house shares in London are one thing, actual houses with gardens are something else.

And obviously it would depend on where you work. My wife was just looking at a job which was less than two miles from Euston, so she'd do what I used to do: bike to the station (3 minutes), get on train, get off train, bike to work (10 minutes). Excercise for free! If you had a job other than near Euston obviously find somewhere that gets closer to where you're going.

If you just need a bedsit or can share with others, by all means live in London. If you have a family and only one person needs to go in, commuting in may be better. You can read, work, watch films or whatever on the train... can't do that in the car.

Trains usually less than 5 minutes late. Jesus H Corbett, look.. "first world problems". The tube is *awesome* - yes crowded stinky whatever, but it's still awesome compared to... Ottawa. The trains are *awesome* compared to... oooh, I don't know, anywhere in north america?

It was just a thought. There are plenty of jobs in the South East, all over, no need to go anywhere near London really.

[Indio]

I know a lot of people that work in IT and they usually live in Redding. I don't know much about UK towns but I thought I would throw that out there since I hear it mentioned so often and it hasn't shown up in the other replies.

[daverobev]

I know a lot of people that work in IT and they usually live in Redding. I don't know much about UK towns but I thought I would throw that out there since I hear it mentioned so often and it hasn't shown up in the other replies.

ReAding (admittedly pronounced 'redding') is at the heart of the M4 high-tech corridor - good area if you're in IT, sure, but OTOH not cheap.

Thing is, in the UK (outside London), there are towns and villages all over so you can always find somewhere less expensive.

[former player]

In general London and the South East are expensive because high-paying city jobs/commutes.  The South West is expensive because high-paying city refugees/retirees.  There are cheaper parts of all of these areas, usually those parts with the worst transport links.

For quality of life, try looking at county towns and market towns in the shires, as they will give you a community feeling, history and walkability.

For bigger cities I agree Nottingham.  Also try the next county east from there: Lincolnshire is a highly rural county (much of it beautiful) with very good schooling for kids who can pass the eleven-plus into selective grammar schools.  Lincoln is a medium-sized city with a newish college and some tech, Louth is a market town in beautiful countryside not far from amazing beaches, Grantham and Stamford to the south are less than 100 miles from London.

[thefrugalnudists]

I know a lot of people that work in IT and they usually live in Redding. I don't know much about UK towns but I thought I would throw that out there since I hear it mentioned so often and it hasn't shown up in the other replies.

ReAding (admittedly pronounced 'redding') is at the heart of the M4 high-tech corridor - good area if you're in IT, sure, but OTOH not cheap.

Thing is, in the UK (outside London), there are towns and villages all over so you can always find somewhere less expensive.

Could 30,000 pounds work in a town outside of Reading for a family of 4 with no car?

[former player]

It could.  The biggest issue will be housing: a three bedroom house to rent in a walkable location near public transport will be in considerable demand at the sorts of prices you will be able to afford.  Check out www.rightmove.co.uk to see what is currently on the market or recently let.  Going further away from London (eg Newbury rather than Wokingham) will probably get better results.

[daverobev]

I know a lot of people that work in IT and they usually live in Redding. I don't know much about UK towns but I thought I would throw that out there since I hear it mentioned so often and it hasn't shown up in the other replies.

ReAding (admittedly pronounced 'redding') is at the heart of the M4 high-tech corridor - good area if you're in IT, sure, but OTOH not cheap.

Thing is, in the UK (outside London), there are towns and villages all over so you can always find somewhere less expensive.

Could 30,000 pounds work in a town outside of Reading for a family of 4 with no car?

Hmm, well I was earning roughly that a few years back but just me, no family; paying for a 2 bed place (owned). Mortgage was about 500, train ticket nearly 200, etc, etc. Bear in mind 1) there is a council tax discount for single people, but 2) there is money for people with children.

So it's doable, I reckon, certainly doable, but you wouldn't be saving 50% for FIRE or anything like that. On 30k, take home would be just under 2k a month (though I was also paying off student loans). You'd be able to save 700, 800 or so at a guess.

Finding somewhere to rent at the right price would be the key.

[thefrugalnudists]

I know a lot of people that work in IT and they usually live in Redding. I don't know much about UK towns but I thought I would throw that out there since I hear it mentioned so often and it hasn't shown up in the other replies.

ReAding (admittedly pronounced 'redding') is at the heart of the M4 high-tech corridor - good area if you're in IT, sure, but OTOH not cheap.

Thing is, in the UK (outside London), there are towns and villages all over so you can always find somewhere less expensive.

Could 30,000 pounds work in a town outside of Reading for a family of 4 with no car?

Hmm, well I was earning roughly that a few years back but just me, no family; paying for a 2 bed place (owned). Mortgage was about 500, train ticket nearly 200, etc, etc. Bear in mind 1) there is a council tax discount for single people, but 2) there is money for people with children.

So it's doable, I reckon, certainly doable, but you wouldn't be saving 50% for FIRE or anything like that. On 30k, take home would be just under 2k a month (though I was also paying off student loans). You'd be able to save 700, 800 or so at a guess.

Finding somewhere to rent at the right price would be the key.

At this point we arent thinking too much about FI or RE. We just want to continue to save and hopefully have some to invest. My wife is 28 so she has some time until she starts making more money that comes with experience. Then we can really start socking money away and hopefully retire somewhat early. The problem is that I am 42 so I dont have as much time as she does and got started at this game of family and saving for retirement very late.
The nice thing is that we will have a good chunk of money saved and a little bit invested. We have no debt except for a car we are financing that I am still punching myself in the face over.
If 30k can keep us from dipping into savings until she starts making more money then thats good enough. If we can save a few hundred on top of that each month then thats great. Once we are established and both kids are in school then I can work full time and we will be set at that point.
If we arent able to get ahead or we simply don't like living in the UK then we will likely head to Germany but before the kids get too old. Problem there is at my age it will be tough to find a decent job. At least in England I could potentially still be in demand.
Of course all of this is made easier when you have a Mustachian lifestyle. We don't have a lot of needs or desire to add tons of bills for things we don't need.

[BritishMustache]

Hello,

As a Brit living near London, I can say Mustachian England most certainly does exist. Given the ability to effectively structure one's income via self-employment and not having the same worries our US friends have about health insurance.

I'd have to back up what the original responder said, in looking around London. Although personally I can't stand living in London itself, being from the countryside originally and enjoying open green fields without having to see other people. I'm actually not too far from Leighton Buzzard as another poster suggested - cost of living around here is very reasonable.

The time spent commuting into London might be somewhat frustrating and wasteful, but depending where you live in London - you may find it takes pretty much the same time if you chose some of the more "affordable" boroughs anyway. It would also be on public transport, so giving time to read if that were to take your fancy.

The major factor for me is that your wife is a Java programmer. If she has a few years experience, then there are a huge number of contract roles around - for which the average rate is £425/day at present (source: itjobswatch.co.uk and personal knowledge). That's equivalent to a £100k salary (http://www.contractorcalculator.co.uk/OutsideIR35ContractorCalculator.aspx). Even if she took a junior contract role on £300/day that is equal to £71k permanent.

You haven't said what you do, but if it's a job which suits contracting - you may find FI is an option available far sooner than you think.

In terms of places to live, I would also recommend www.illustreets.co.uk, which shows loads of quality of life data on an interactive map in an easily understood way. It's scary how accurate it actually "feels" based on where I have local knowledge.

The BM

[thefrugalnudists]

@The BM
Great information. Thanks. She will be a recent grad with a Second bachelor's degree in Computer Science and a certificate in Java. She's the smart one between us as I am a barber. I could do that there or start my own business as I have an entrepreneurial streak in me. For the first year I wll be home taking care of our kids though.
 

[kodokan]

We are considering a move to England (or maybe in the UK in general) in the next 2-3 years or so.
The youngest of the kids is 1 month old and the older is going to be 2 in September. So by the time we get there they should be around 2-3 and 4-5 respectively.
We would love a town near a major or medium city where we wouldn't need a car ideally. My wife will be working as a software engineer in java specifically. Not sure how much a junior position would likely pay in England  so if it isn't too expensive an area that would also be ideal.
Is there a place where there are parks for the kids, good schools and where we can live a frugal Mustachian inspired life?

Is having a visa going to be relevant, or do you already have citizenship? It's got very hard in recent years for even a UK citizen to 'import' a non-UK spouse, let alone for non-citizens to successfully immigrate.

Assuming it's possible for you, one thing to watch out for is the age of your oldest child. Most school applications need to be submitted by January of the year your child would be starting school (which would be the Sept s/he turned 5; they would be one of the oldest in their class, which is generally thought to be a good thing). To apply, you'd need to be physically living in the catchment of the school you want, the closer to the school the better; this is essential in London and the surrounding areas where you usually need to live within a couple of minutes' walk to a school to guarantee a place.

If you miss the application date, all the places at popular schools will be full, and your child will be allocated to another (often failing) school with places, regardless of where you live. After the Reception year intake, you can move next door to a stellar school that's full, and your child won't get a place there. It's very unlike the US in that respect. On the other hand, once they're in, they're in - the place is securely theirs, even if you move some distance away a year or so later.

[Nickyd£g]

I would suggest Glasgow (not that I'm biased or anything!).  Small enough city to walk around or bike, with excellent public transport links, lots of green spaces, medium COL compared to London/Manchester and thriving finance and sciences sectors.  Pretty good schools too, depending on where you live.  The accent and speed of speech might take you a while to understand though ;)

As previously noted, there maybe some changes if we become independent.

[Cap_Scarlet]

If moving to europe I would consider anywhere else other than the UK.

London is just too expensive and unless you really want / need to be there then there are far better more livable cities in Europe (Start with Stockholm, Barcelona, Munich). 

The UK has some nice areas (Lake district, Peak District etc.) but you are then faced with a long commute.

If I had my choice I would live in Munich.  Great city, great football team, great beer and only one hour to some of the best skiing in Europe.

[Mt9982]

Might I suggest... Leighton Buzzard.

Why? Well, I used to live there, and there are fast trains into London Euston - 30 mins or something I think. But instead of paying thousands a month to rent, you pay hundreds.

If rent in LB is £400 or so and an annual rail pass is £5000 isn't that already up to £1000 a month, more than a cheap place in the city?

I have many New York friends living in London and most are paying over 3k a month for a one bedroom.  It's about on par with New York and I can't imagine being able to find a one bedroom in manhattan that I would want to live in for under 2k a month.  Well I did once but it was on a crappy block, fifth floor walkup, one tiny closet and no dishwasher.  You get the picture.  You're dreaming if you think you can find a nice one bedroom in central London for that price

[Mt9982]

I know a lot of people that work in IT and they usually live in Redding. I don't know much about UK towns but I thought I would throw that out there since I hear it mentioned so often and it hasn't shown up in the other replies.

ReAding (admittedly pronounced 'redding') is at the heart of the M4 high-tech corridor - good area if you're in IT, sure, but OTOH not cheap.

Thing is, in the UK (outside London), there are towns and villages all over so you can always find somewhere less expensive.

Could 30,000 pounds work in a town outside of Reading for a family of 4 with no car?

Hmm, well I was earning roughly that a few years back but just me, no family; paying for a 2 bed place (owned). Mortgage was about 500, train ticket nearly 200, etc, etc. Bear in mind 1) there is a council tax discount for single people, but 2) there is money for people with children.

So it's doable, I reckon, certainly doable, but you wouldn't be saving 50% for FIRE or anything like that. On 30k, take home would be just under 2k a month (though I was also paying off student loans). You'd be able to save 700, 800 or so at a guess.

Finding somewhere to rent at the right price would be the key.

At this point we arent thinking too much about FI or RE. We just want to continue to save and hopefully have some to invest. My wife is 28 so she has some time until she starts making more money that comes with experience. Then we can really start socking money away and hopefully retire somewhat early. The problem is that I am 42 so I dont have as much time as she does and got started at this game of family and saving for retirement very late.
The nice thing is that we will have a good chunk of money saved and a little bit invested. We have no debt except for a car we are financing that I am still punching myself in the face over.
If 30k can keep us from dipping into savings until she starts making more money then thats good enough. If we can save a few hundred on top of that each month then thats great. Once we are established and both kids are in school then I can work full time and we will be set at that point.
If we arent able to get ahead or we simply don't like living in the UK then we will likely head to Germany but before the kids get too old. Problem there is at my age it will be tough to find a decent job. At least in England I could potentially still be in demand.
Of course all of this is made easier when you have a Mustachian lifestyle. We don't have a lot of needs or desire to add tons of bills for things we don't need.

Moving to London on 30,000 pounds is insane.  That is tough for a recent graduate, let alone someone married with a family.  Seriously - nuts.  You really need to think this one through and figure out housing costs, transportation, food, etc.   I can't even fathom signing up for that. 

[grantmeaname]

I have many New York friends living in London and most are paying over 3k a month for a one bedroom.  It's about on par with New York and I can't imagine being able to find a one bedroom in manhattan that I would want to live in for under 2k a month.  Well I did once but it was on a crappy block, fifth floor walkup, one tiny closet and no dishwasher.  You get the picture.  You're dreaming if you think you can find a nice one bedroom in central London for that price

That's absolutely insane. I've never heard of anyone paying 3,000 pounds a month for rent. I think 1,000 is close to the median for my coworkers, including some people paying 800-900 and close enough to walk to work. I think your assumptions just don't even come close to matching reality.

[daverobev]

I think you're talking at cross purposes. One bed or batchelor/bedsit vs somewhere you can put a family in.

Also I think the 3k was $ not GBP.

I have a friend who just moved to near White City... they rent a 2 bed plus office (so could be 3 bed), 2 bath upper level flat for 2.2k GBP a month or something like that. So about $3750 at current rates.

Also remember that, what, one year ago, it was $1.5:1GBP... so.

[Mt9982]

I have many New York friends living in London and most are paying over 3k a month for a one bedroom.  It's about on par with New York and I can't imagine being able to find a one bedroom in manhattan that I would want to live in for under 2k a month.  Well I did once but it was on a crappy block, fifth floor walkup, one tiny closet and no dishwasher.  You get the picture.  You're dreaming if you think you can find a nice one bedroom in central London for that price

That's absolutely insane. I've never heard of anyone paying 3,000 pounds a month for rent. I think 1,000 is close to the median for my coworkers, including some people paying 800-900 and close enough to walk to work. I think your assumptions just don't even come close to matching reality.

I was talking 3k in dollars. 

[Mt9982]

Hello,

As a Brit living near London, I can say Mustachian England most certainly does exist. Given the ability to effectively structure one's income via self-employment and not having the same worries our US friends have about health insurance.

I'd have to back up what the original responder said, in looking around London. Although personally I can't stand living in London itself, being from the countryside originally and enjoying open green fields without having to see other people. I'm actually not too far from Leighton Buzzard as another poster suggested - cost of living around here is very reasonable.

The time spent commuting into London might be somewhat frustrating and wasteful, but depending where you live in London - you may find it takes pretty much the same time if you chose some of the more "affordable" boroughs anyway. It would also be on public transport, so giving time to read if that were to take your fancy.

The major factor for me is that your wife is a Java programmer. If she has a few years experience, then there are a huge number of contract roles around - for which the average rate is £425/day at present (source: itjobswatch.co.uk and personal knowledge). That's equivalent to a £100k salary (http://www.contractorcalculator.co.uk/OutsideIR35ContractorCalculator.aspx). Even if she took a junior contract role on £300/day that is equal to £71k permanent.

You haven't said what you do, but if it's a job which suits contracting - you may find FI is an option available far sooner than you think.

In terms of places to live, I would also recommend www.illustreets.co.uk, which shows loads of quality of life data on an interactive map in an easily understood way. It's scary how accurate it actually "feels" based on where I have local knowledge.

The BM

Just to point out - most Americans do have health insurance.  The media in Europe seriously distorts the issue.  I pay 200 a month for health insurance for my family. 

[grantmeaname]

I was talking 3k in dollars. 

Okay. With the exchange rate how it is that's scary high but within the realm of feasibility. My apologies.

[Mt9982]

I was talking 3k in dollars. 

Okay. With the exchange rate how it is that's scary high but within the realm of feasibility. My apologies.

Yes, except I pay 3k a month in a high col city and my husband and I earn well over 300k a year.  We feel our rent is steep.  Granted, it was a lot more when we lived in New York.  We do save over 65 percent of our take home pay. 

[Mt9982]

I was talking 3k in dollars. 

Okay. With the exchange rate how it is that's scary high but within the realm of feasibility. My apologies.

Another thing.  You'll need quite a bit of cash to even rent a place.  There are all types of rules about having to come over with cash and a bank account per adult.  I can't recall the specifics.  The best thing you can do besides visit is check out rentals online.  Ask ppl you know for reputable real estate firms and search based on your rent.  See what you can find.  Right out of college I lived in NY on 70k before bonus and it just didn't go very far at all.  London has always seemed more expensive to me and I work in an industry where lots of folks go to London for a few years to work. 

[grantmeaname]

London has seemed a little less expensive than New York to me but it may be because I've finally stopped doing the exchange rate conversion in my head.

The firm takes care of the visa rules so I don't have to worry too much about that - though I imagine the first two months or so would be tight with paying the deposit and effectively doubling your cash flow out for rent.

[Qwerty]

Late reply on this but maybe helpful?

Look hard at Brighton and Bristol for jobs and consider commuting in in the bus from a very cheap neighbouring town - for brighton this could be Worthing or Newhaven. Both cities have amazing quality of life, near coast stuff to do without insane costs of London.

As a london refugee I wiuldnt send anyone there

To the other retired  poster coming to UK suggest you consider cornwall. Some very cheap property still, best climate and beaches in the ?UK. Would be my first choice!

[Mercer]

Another Londoner here (well, living in London at the moment)!

Some thoughts on London
- You definitely only want to live in London if it significantly boosts earnings. Everything, but especially housing, is more expensive
- When considering commuting times from the commuter belt, bear in mind they can be worse within London unless you manage to live in the centre. I've lived in London for about 5 years, and my commute has always been over 40 minutes, and currently it's around an hour. Though in cash terms, it's much cheaper (£3 a day for a bus back and forth rather than huge season ticket costs.