Author Topic: Mustachian alternatives to rock salt  (Read 3949 times)

intellectsucks

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Mustachian alternatives to rock salt
« on: December 19, 2016, 09:40:22 AM »
Winter is here, and here in Philadelphia we had our first snowfall (only a dusting). This got me thinking about how terrible rock salt is: bad for environment, bad for lawns, kids, cats, dogs etc. It even contributes to cement deteriorating faster. So rather than grab a couple of bags of poison, what other options are out there?

ender

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Re: Mustachian alternatives to rock salt
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2016, 09:42:28 AM »
Consistent shoveling and sunshine?

UKMustache

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Re: Mustachian alternatives to rock salt
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2016, 10:30:44 AM »
Move somewhere warmer?

Papa bear

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Re: Mustachian alternatives to rock salt
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2016, 10:32:40 AM »
A shovel. Or multiple shovels.


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VoteCthulu

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Re: Mustachian alternatives to rock salt
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2016, 10:36:49 AM »
Shovel ASAP
Buy an ice pick for thick ice
Sweep up any undisolved salt when dry to use again later.

FIRE Artist

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Re: Mustachian alternatives to rock salt
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2016, 10:50:26 AM »
You can put down sand to give traction instead of salt to melt the ice.  I usually do a combination of both as my sidewalk is in terrible condition and causes ice damming that is too thick to break up and also too thick for salt to break up either.  The goal is to prevent people from slipping and putting down sand does the trick on that end. 

Digital Dogma

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Re: Mustachian alternatives to rock salt
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2016, 10:51:15 AM »
Ice cleats and sand/grit!

Where I grew up in the country, we never used salt, we threw down sand and trap-rock.

nereo

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Re: Mustachian alternatives to rock salt
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2016, 11:03:39 AM »
Amusing responses aside, there's a few things you can do here.

1) anything dark will accelerate melting - my dad used to use the ask from our fireplace.  Upside is it's good for the enviormnet (basically fertilizer).  Downside is it's messy if it gets indoors.  Coffee Grinds work great for this (and gives you "grit" see #2).. but you probably won't have enough to do a long driveway unless you are a coffee-holic

2) sand/grit.  This works every when it's too cold for the snow to melt (even salted snow won't melt <18ºF or so, depending on sun/shade).  Downside - it's horrible on floors if it gets tracked inside.  Coffee Grinds, sawdust, tree bark are other options that you don't need to worry about sweeping up i the spring.

3) eco-melter options.  There's a bunch you can buy commercially, but lots of other thigns work too.  Plain-old sugar will lower the melting point of water enough to get it to melt if it's in the mid 20ºs.  Beet-juice works well too, and turns out driveway a lovely pink color.  A spray mixture of biodegradable detergent ("simple green"), water and sugar can also be sprayed on sidewalks and driveways (use a garden sprayer that's never had chemicals in it).  It's more pricy than rock-salt, but if you are only doing a few hundred square feet it's not a big concern.

Milizard

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Re: Mustachian alternatives to rock salt
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2016, 11:21:55 AM »
Coffee grinds, eh?  I have a spot that always seems to get icy.  I may have to try this.  Any downsides?

nereo

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Re: Mustachian alternatives to rock salt
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2016, 11:26:11 AM »
Coffee grinds, eh?  I have a spot that always seems to get icy.  I may have to try this.  Any downsides?
Not really, other than it gets into your boot-treads pretty easily.  I have about 9sqft of walk-way into our condo and we toss coffee-grinds on it after every shovel. Works great, good for the soil, and smells nice too.  The dark color also makes ice melt faster in the sun when we get warmish days.

BlueHouse

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Re: Mustachian alternatives to rock salt
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2016, 02:20:00 PM »
I use a broom, but I make sure to sweep every few hours so the snow is never too heavy to push away. 

snogirl

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Re: Mustachian alternatives to rock salt
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2016, 02:30:09 PM »
Sand for sure here in Vermont. It's free at our city garage bring a bucket or 2 and I'm all set. It's worked for me for 40 years. The suggestion to keep it cleared helps as well. Sometimes it's just impossible a lot more ice through the years with wild temp swings.

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btmarquis

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Re: Mustachian alternatives to rock salt
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2016, 02:48:40 PM »
I was just thinking the same today.  I try to not use it, and only do on ice storm type events (not for dustings of snow).  But I too want something not so horrible for living things.   Rock salt seems to be the worst and the cheapest.   I've read that those with magnesium chloride or better yet calcium magnesium acetate (CMA) are less corrosive and harmful to plants, etc., but also more expensive.

Hedge_87

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Re: Mustachian alternatives to rock salt
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2016, 02:49:46 PM »
pick up snow shovel.

Start walking south (if your in the northern hemisphere)

When somebody ask you what that thing is you are caring stop right there and buy a house.

Dispose of snow shovel in an environmentally friendly way.

On a more serious note I have a spot in between my house and garage that never thaws because it only gets a couple hours of sunshine and the snow melt from both the garage and house roofs runs down and freezes when it gets in the shady parts. I try and keep it as clear as I can with a shovel and shop broom and then use sand to make it a little less slick. First year I used rock salt and it killed my grass from run off and hasn't looked the same since. I wouldn't care much about the grass but it is right off our patio where we spend a lot of time and it's nice to be able to let the little guy crawl around with out getting completely covered in mud.

jacksonvasey

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Re: Mustachian alternatives to rock salt
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2016, 05:24:14 PM »
Ash from the wood stove.  You have a wood stove, right?

Little chunks of charcoal help absorb heat from the sun and melt holes, which helps melt the ice.  Incredibly solid traction, and when it runs off after the melt it'll help your lawn, though too much might be an issue.  Still is better than salt, and it is a waste stream in our household.

NV Teacher

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Re: Mustachian alternatives to rock salt
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2016, 07:06:28 PM »
My mom uses kitty litter on icy steps.  We also have a coal furnace and keep a bucket of clinkers from the fire box in the garage for when cars get stuck in the driveway.

Debts_of_Despair

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Re: Mustachian alternatives to rock salt
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2016, 07:48:44 PM »
In ten years of home ownership, today was the first time I needed and bought deicing salts, specifically calcium chloride.  My front steps looked exactly like the stairs in Home Alone when Kevin sprays them down with the hose.  We had rain on Saturday followed by rapidly dropping temps.  Most of the time I stay on top of the ice by snowblowing and shoveling the snow before it has a chance to melt but this time there wasn't anything I could do.  So, $20 for 50 lb of CaCl so my mail carrier doesn't die.

MilesTeg

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Re: Mustachian alternatives to rock salt
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2016, 04:37:38 PM »
Shovel It Well and Promptly

Importantly: Get a GOOD steel/aluminum shovel, not a cheap plastic POS. This helps clear compacted or otherwise difficult to remove snow (plastic typically does not have the rigidity to do it well). More costly up front, but will also last a LOT longer so it's the more frugal choice to begin with.

This is the "ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

Sand Icy Spots

Put down Sand or other gritty substance. This provides traction on icy surfaces.

Redirect/move any down spouts that empty onto walking surfaces

Lots of builders are lazy and will put down spouts in places where they drain (and ice up) surfaces you want to walk on. Our previous home had one that emptied right on the damn driveway right in a high traffic area.

Move, bury or otherwise prevent those drains from emptying onto those surfaces. (more prevention vs cure)


DO NOT PUT SALT DOWN ON TEXTURED CONCRETE


Salting your driveway or other textured concrete will greatly accelerate the deterioration of the concrete because when you put down salt you lower the freezing temperature of the water. This is, of course, the point of putting the salt down but it also leads to an increase in freeze/thaw cycles and it's the freeze/thaw cycles that cause the deterioration to your concrete as the water makes its way into every little crevice and then freezes and expands.

If you must put salt down, clean it up promptly after the ice is melted (shovel/sweep/etc. it away). In the rare case that I use salt I also "rinse" the concrete afterward by shoveling snow back onto the surface and then shoveling it away again (into some place where I don't want to grow things).

You also want to avoid parking your car on your textured concrete if you have a lot of icy build up on the vehicle as that ice usually contains the salt they put down on the roads and it will accumulate on your concrete as it melts off your car.

Non-textured concrete, like the smooth flatwork in your garage isn't as susceptible to freeze damage and it's not worth worrying about. Just another good reason to clean out all the junk in your car storage building so that the car can be stored there! ;) However, I still park my car in the street if it's full of road ice/salt until things dry up.

Obviously, safety is more important than maintaining your concrete so this advice is, of course, overruled in the event of a safety need.

Never buy a north facing property/driveway

Self explanatory, I hope. ;)

Silverado

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Re: Mustachian alternatives to rock salt
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2016, 07:43:39 PM »

Redirect/move any down spouts that empty onto walking surfaces

Lots of builders are lazy and will put down spouts in places where they drain (and ice up) surfaces you want to walk on. Our previous home had one that emptied right on the damn driveway right in a high traffic area.

Move, bury or otherwise prevent those drains from emptying onto those surfaces. (more prevention vs cure)


I hate this, seems so basic, but see it so often.