Moving to higher rent to save relationship

[k290]

Since I was in university I have been renting really really cheaply, from my godparents. It has been nearly 10 years and they have never increased the rent.

I am a year into a relationship, and I am thinking of moving out, because my apartment is too small to share with someone. There isn't room for a double bed.  I can't always spend time at her place, because she has roommates and we don't get much privacy, and I am also very socially anxious and can't spend long periods around these people. This is all taking a toll on our relationship and something has to change.

And soif I move my rent will go up to 6X its current amount, for about a year while we experiment and see how we get on by spending longer periods together and wait for her lease to expire.

Then if we move in together my rent will halve, but will still be 3X its current amount.

Am I being stupid?

[former player]

No, you are not being stupid, provided you have the means to pay for the new place without going into debt.

Looking at this positively, it is all about you moving up the adulting ladder towards its sunny uplands.

Good luck.

[SwordGuy]

Is she someone you would be happy to spend the rest of your life with?  Is she someone who will help you grow and prosper (not just in the financial sense.)  If yes, then no, you're not being stupid. 

[Dicey]

Need actual numbers, please.

[RFAAOATB]

Do you have enough money to buy property?  Now may be the time since you’ve had a period of below market rent to save up a down payment.  If you’re going to be around for a while, even buying a small house outside of town might be better than being at the mercy of a landlord.

[Missy B]

I'm wondering if you can buy too.
I fully support you, as an almost-29 year old, getting a place that fits a double bed. And, because you haven't given us much detail, we don't know if that means you going from a $500 a month place to a $3000 place, or a $200 place to a $1200 place... or a $100 to a $600 place. How does this impact your savings and overall cash flow?
I suspect it's actually fine, and you can afford to make the switch or you wouldn't be here asking.

[Blue Skies]

The actual amounts of $, along with how much you make relative to rent costs, would greatly influence my opinion on whether this is stupid. 
If you are only paying $100/month right now, yes, move into something reasonable that will fit adult furniture.
If you are already paying a lot in a HCOL area, and your salary is low for the area... look at other options first.

[Villanelle]

Regardless of the numbers, that's a HUGE increase.  Are there any alternatives?  Do you really have to go 6x more expensive to get anything that meets the basic need/want you are trying to address?

An occasional nice hotel room?  Renting a storage locker to allow for a larger bed?  A fold out sofa?

[ysette9]

This is part of adulting, moving out of family-subsidized housing and striking out on your own. It should happen eventually and what better catalyst than a good relationship you want to deepen? I think the real question is whether this is the right relationship or not. You won’t know for sure until you take the plunge and try. Keep in mind that people tend to regret not doing things than doing things.

[Dicey]

I'm curious about something else. What have you done with the difference between what you've been paying and market rate? Have you saved/invested it all?

I'm also not sure about your goals. People have gotten married without prior cohabitation for literally centuries. If you just want getaway time, it could cost you less to find a couple of cozy airbnb's in your area while you each continue to live separately. It feels like you're rushing things. Taking your time in a relationship is something no one regrets, ever.

[former player]

The relationship is a year old, they are planning to spend another year of increasing time together and if that works out move in together.  That's not rushing by any standards.  Nor is it a marriage commitment, yet.

Also, OP hasn't posted any monetary amounts: this is not a detailed question about finances but a more general question about whether the costs of moving on in life (something we've all come across) are worth it.

OP: people are naturally curious, but don't need to know any more than you've already said.  They are also focussed on the figures because that's a lot of what we do here.  But it seems to me: you are asking whether it is all right for you to take a leap into your future and I'm here to say: yes it is.  You would not have stayed where you are currently living so long if you were not careful with spending.  You have long-standing and no doubt ongoing family support from your godparents.  You have a solid base to leap from, and something to leap towards in the form of this promising relationship.  I think you have everything going for you in making this leap work out well for you, whatever comes of it.  Good luck.

[soccerluvof4]

The relationship is a year old, they are planning to spend another year of increasing time together and if that works out move in together.  That's not rushing by any standards.  Nor is it a marriage commitment, yet.

Also, OP hasn't posted any monetary amounts: this is not a detailed question about finances but a more general question about whether the costs of moving on in life (something we've all come across) are worth it.

OP: people are naturally curious, but don't need to know any more than you've already said.  They are also focussed on the figures because that's a lot of what we do here.  But it seems to me: you are asking whether it is all right for you to take a leap into your future and I'm here to say: yes it is.  You would not have stayed where you are currently living so long if you were not careful with spending.  You have long-standing and no doubt ongoing family support from your godparents.  You have a solid base to leap from, and something to leap towards in the form of this promising relationship.  I think you have everything going for you in making this leap work out well for you, whatever comes of it.  Good luck.

This! +1. I agree its more about moving forward and not about the numbers. You can always move after a year if need be so wish you the best as well!

[Metalcat]

You aren't being stupid if the move fits with your life priorities.

If moving on to a more adult, more independent living situation is a priority, then it makes sense to leave your current subsidized living situation.

If your priority is to live ERE style, save as much money as humanly possible, and retire in your 30s, then having a girlfriend who doesn't have the same priorities isn't going to work.

Figure out what life you want, and work towards that life.
Only you can determine what's right for you. Don't feel guilty about spending if it aligns with your values and priorities, but definitely spend some serious introspective time determine what your priorities actually are.

[Dicey]

The relationship is a year old, they are planning to spend another year of increasing time together and if that works out move in together.  That's not rushing by any standards.  Nor is it a marriage commitment, yet.

Also, OP hasn't posted any monetary amounts: this is not a detailed question about finances but a more general question about whether the costs of moving on in life (something we've all come across) are worth it.

OP: people are naturally curious, but don't need to know any more than you've already said.  They are also focussed on the figures because that's a lot of what we do here.  But it seems to me: you are asking whether it is all right for you to take a leap into your future and I'm here to say: yes it is.  You would not have stayed where you are currently living so long if you were not careful with spending.  You have long-standing and no doubt ongoing family support from your godparents.  You have a solid base to leap from, and something to leap towards in the form of this promising relationship.  I think you have everything going for you in making this leap work out well for you, whatever comes of it.  Good luck.

This! +1. I agree its more about moving forward and not about the numbers. You can always move after a year if need be so wish you the best as well!

I disagree with none of this, but look again at the subject line. OP specifically said "to SAVE a relationship". I find that a huge red flag. How often does throwing money at a fledgling relationship save it? The question of whether the OP can afford this change is completely relevant, as is the suggestion that there might be other, less expensive options to be considered. If the OP did this and the relationship crashed and burned anyway, some might criticize the OP for making such a leap. OP asked for financial advice, and that's what I offered.  Knowing whether @k290 can afford this upgrade, regardless of the status of the relationship, is crucial. Mustachians do the math.

[Metalcat]

I disagree with none of this, but look again at the subject line. OP specifically said "to SAVE a relationship". I find that a huge red flag. How often does throwing money at a fledgling relationship save it? The question of whether the OP can afford this change is completely relevant, as is the suggestion that there might be other, less expensive options to be considered. If the OP did this and the relationship crashed and burned anyway, some might criticize the OP for making such a leap. OP asked for financial advice, and that's what I offered.  Knowing whether @k290 can afford this upgrade, regardless of the status of the relationship, is crucial. Mustachians do the math.

Bingo.

There's a huge difference between making a reasonable and affordable move out of tiny subsidized housing towards a more independent, traditionally adult lifestyle in order to progress in a healthy and happy relationship as part of a big-picture of a future that OP wants and can readily afford.

Vs

OP having a plan to ERE his way to very early retirement, but he's considering throwing away all of his plans because his relationship with a financially incompatible girlfriend with very different long term goals is stating to sour, so OP is considering a Hail-mary-pass of upping his rent by SIX times in a desperate attempt to appease a girlfriend that he's bound to have ongoing financial and lifestyle conflict with.

OP could have loads of student debt, could be struggling in his career, or he could be socking away 6 figures a year. These things really do matter in terms of how risky this possible move is.

Again, it all comes down to priorities.

[former player]

The relationship is a year old, they are planning to spend another year of increasing time together and if that works out move in together.  That's not rushing by any standards.  Nor is it a marriage commitment, yet.

Also, OP hasn't posted any monetary amounts: this is not a detailed question about finances but a more general question about whether the costs of moving on in life (something we've all come across) are worth it.

OP: people are naturally curious, but don't need to know any more than you've already said.  They are also focussed on the figures because that's a lot of what we do here.  But it seems to me: you are asking whether it is all right for you to take a leap into your future and I'm here to say: yes it is.  You would not have stayed where you are currently living so long if you were not careful with spending.  You have long-standing and no doubt ongoing family support from your godparents.  You have a solid base to leap from, and something to leap towards in the form of this promising relationship.  I think you have everything going for you in making this leap work out well for you, whatever comes of it.  Good luck.

This! +1. I agree its more about moving forward and not about the numbers. You can always move after a year if need be so wish you the best as well!

I disagree with none of this, but look again at the subject line. OP specifically said "to SAVE a relationship". I find that a huge red flag. How often does throwing money at a fledgling relationship save it? The question of whether the OP can afford this change is completely relevant, as is the suggestion that there might be other, less expensive options to be considered. If the OP did this and the relationship crashed and burned anyway, some might criticize the OP for making such a leap. OP asked for financial advice, and that's what I offered.  Knowing whether @k290 can afford this upgrade, regardless of the status of the relationship, is crucial. Mustachians do the math.

People in their late 20s who've been in a relationship for a year and want the peace and quiet and privacy of a place with a double bed so that they can spend nights together seems entirely reasonable to me.  (Have you spent much time sharing a single bed with another adult for the night?  I suspect not. I haven't done it for decades but still remember how uncomfortable it was.)  I also quite understand that after a year of makeshift arrangements, if my SO was not prepared to put enough into the relationship to even move into somewhere with a double bed and privacy then I would quite likely be thinking that my SO was so little invested in the relationship and having a life together that I would move on and look for someone who was a better bet for my future.  OP is only incidentally spending money on the relationship: it's not like their SO is demanding marriage or a big engagement ring, all they are asking for is a chance to spend more time together, specifically the chance to spend their nights together.   

Regarding the finances, k290 appears to me to have already done the maths for more than a year into the future. They are an MMM reader and found this forum, and have a history of careful spending (10 years living in a space that isn't even big enough for a double bed tells me that).   This is about a lot more than money: I think OP has got that dialed down and it's the adulting thing that's the question mark here.

[Metalcat]

Regarding the finances, k290 appears to me to have already done the maths for more than a year into the future. They are an MMM reader and found this forum, and have a history of careful spending (10 years living in a space that isn't even big enough for a double bed tells me that).   This is about a lot more than money: I think OP has got that dialed down and it's the adulting thing that's the question mark here.

Funny, my instinct reading the OP was quite different. I read that a normal market rent would be a stressful level of expense for OP, which indicates that their financial health isn't really optimal right now.

Though, that's just as much assumption based on nothing. Truthfully, OP didn't share enough to evaluate either way.

[FIRE Artist]

if my SO was not prepared to put enough into the relationship to even move into somewhere with a double bed and privacy then I would quite likely be thinking that my SO was so little invested in the relationship and having a life together that I would move on and look for someone who was a better bet for my future. 

Why can't the girlfriend get her own place that has privacy and room for a double bed?  Not sure why the guy has to do it at this point.  Seems kind of sexist to expect the guy to provide the private apartment.   

Having said that, I do think adults interested in having intimate relationships should have adult size beds and think OP should at least move into a shared apartment with a full size bedroom situation. 

[Metalcat]

if my SO was not prepared to put enough into the relationship to even move into somewhere with a double bed and privacy then I would quite likely be thinking that my SO was so little invested in the relationship and having a life together that I would move on and look for someone who was a better bet for my future. 

Why can't the girlfriend get her own place that has privacy and room for a double bed?  Not sure why the guy has to do it at this point.  Seems kind of sexist to expect the guy to provide the private apartment.   

Having said that, I do think adults interested in having intimate relationships should have adult size beds and think OP should at least move into a shared apartment with a full size bedroom situation.

I didn't read it as sexist, I read it as his preference not to be around her roommates. It seems a little unreasonable to demand that someone who is happy living with roommates spend more to live alone because their boyfriend doesn't want to go to their apartment. He wants her at his place, but his place isn't big enough to have her over. Him moving makes a lot more sense.

[partgypsy]

if my SO was not prepared to put enough into the relationship to even move into somewhere with a double bed and privacy then I would quite likely be thinking that my SO was so little invested in the relationship and having a life together that I would move on and look for someone who was a better bet for my future. 

Why can't the girlfriend get her own place that has privacy and room for a double bed?  Not sure why the guy has to do it at this point.  Seems kind of sexist to expect the guy to provide the private apartment.   

Having said that, I do think adults interested in having intimate relationships should have adult size beds and think OP should at least move into a shared apartment with a full size bedroom situation.

I didn't read it as sexist, I read it as his preference not to be around her roommates. It seems a little unreasonable to demand that someone who is happy living with roommates spend more to live alone because their boyfriend doesn't want to go to their apartment. He wants her at his place, but his place isn't big enough to have her over. Him moving makes a lot more sense.

yep.
My 2 cents. It is entirely reasonable when you are in a relationship to want to have things like privacy, double or queen bed, decent living accommodations (place to pee, cook, etc.).  I'm reading from his post that that this is something he would like as well, just that he doesn't know if increased costs are reasonable.  the only thing he has made unclear, is how much of a financial duress this will be for the OP. Like someone else said, going from 100 to 600 is different than going from 500 to 3000 a month. We don't know his financial picture to judge whether this is reasonable from that standpoint.

[wageslave23]

If OP can't afford a place that's big enough for a double bed, he should be thankful that any girl is interested in him.  Move to the bigger place whether you can afford it or not and then figure out how to increase your income if you need to.  And I'm saying this as a frugal person when it comes to my lifestyle and relationships.  You will lead a very lonely life if you aren't willing or able to get a double bed.

[Padonak]

I she someone who would pay half the rent?

[GuitarStv]

You've been mooching for 10 years.  How much money have you saved in that time that you can put towards better housing?

[Jenny Wren]

If OP can't afford a place that's big enough for a double bed, he should be thankful that any girl is interested in him.  Move to the bigger place whether you can afford it or not and then figure out how to increase your income if you need to.  And I'm saying this as a frugal person when it comes to my lifestyle and relationships.  You will lead a very lonely life if you aren't willing or able to get a double bed.

This is a patently untrue blanket statement and a borderline misogynistic thing to say. I always forget there is a subset of the population that thinks we womenfolk only care about outward displays of wealth so men should spend themselves into debt to show they are the peacock with the biggest feathers. Responsibility, thoughtfulness, and planning, which is the vibe I got from the OP, goes much further with most women looking for a true adult relationship compared to putting on airs of false affluence. I'd dump someone like a hot potato if I found out they were going into debt to impress anyone, even if I was the one they were trying to impress.

[wageslave23]

If OP can't afford a place that's big enough for a double bed, he should be thankful that any girl is interested in him.  Move to the bigger place whether you can afford it or not and then figure out how to increase your income if you need to.  And I'm saying this as a frugal person when it comes to my lifestyle and relationships.  You will lead a very lonely life if you aren't willing or able to get a double bed.

This is a patently untrue blanket statement and a borderline misogynistic thing to say. I always forget there is a subset of the population that thinks we womenfolk only care about outward displays of wealth so men should spend themselves into debt to show they are the peacock with the biggest feathers. Responsibility, thoughtfulness, and planning, which is the vibe I got from the OP, goes much further with most women looking for a true adult relationship compared to putting on airs of false affluence. I'd dump someone like a hot potato if I found out they were going into debt to impress anyone, even if I was the one they were trying to impress.

Being able to afford a living space that allows for a double bed is a sign that you are able to support yourself and ready for a relationship with another person.  It has nothing to do with outward displays of wealth or misogyny.  This is similar to showering daily, keeping up with yardwork, not being in debt, being able to hold a steady job, etc.  I would expect the same from a woman.

[Samuel]

If OP can't afford a place that's big enough for a double bed, he should be thankful that any girl is interested in him.  Move to the bigger place whether you can afford it or not and then figure out how to increase your income if you need to.  And I'm saying this as a frugal person when it comes to my lifestyle and relationships.  You will lead a very lonely life if you aren't willing or able to get a double bed.

This is a patently untrue blanket statement and a borderline misogynistic thing to say. I always forget there is a subset of the population that thinks we womenfolk only care about outward displays of wealth so men should spend themselves into debt to show they are the peacock with the biggest feathers. Responsibility, thoughtfulness, and planning, which is the vibe I got from the OP, goes much further with most women looking for a true adult relationship compared to putting on airs of false affluence. I'd dump someone like a hot potato if I found out they were going into debt to impress anyone, even if I was the one they were trying to impress.

I also would not advocate going into debt over this, but I agree with the first and last sentences. They've sized their life for one person, physically, fiscally, and thus also emotionally. There needs to be some space in which to allow a partner if you're serious about having a partner. It's not about attracting women with displays of wealth.

[Metalcat]

If OP can't afford a place that's big enough for a double bed, he should be thankful that any girl is interested in him.  Move to the bigger place whether you can afford it or not and then figure out how to increase your income if you need to.  And I'm saying this as a frugal person when it comes to my lifestyle and relationships.  You will lead a very lonely life if you aren't willing or able to get a double bed.

This is a patently untrue blanket statement and a borderline misogynistic thing to say. I always forget there is a subset of the population that thinks we womenfolk only care about outward displays of wealth so men should spend themselves into debt to show they are the peacock with the biggest feathers. Responsibility, thoughtfulness, and planning, which is the vibe I got from the OP, goes much further with most women looking for a true adult relationship compared to putting on airs of false affluence. I'd dump someone like a hot potato if I found out they were going into debt to impress anyone, even if I was the one they were trying to impress.

I also would not advocate going into debt over this, but I agree with the first and last sentences. They've sized their life for one person, physically, fiscally, and thus also emotionally. There needs to be some space in which to allow a partner if you're serious about having a partner. It's not about attracting women with displays of wealth.

I disagree.
The only reason this is an unsolvable issue is that OP is unable/unwilling to spend time around his GF's roommates. A relationship doesn't require two dwellings that are suitable for two people, just one.

I know an incredibly charming woodsy artist who lives in a tree fort most of the year and has a hole in the ground as a toilet. He has no problem finding girlfriends even though his lifestyle isn't even suitable for one person, much less two. However, he is perfectly happy spending time in whatever dwelling his current GF has.

This guy is so goddamn talented and charming, I'm willing to bet he has a much easier time finding women to date him than most men who own nice homes.

[ysette9]

Hey, I am an introvert and I don’t want roommates or to be around a SO’s roommates either. It is mentally and emotionally exhausting. Hell, I have trouble sometimes with my own beloved family.

[Jenny Wren]

The response proves my point and ignores the fact that it was specifically states "whether you can afford to or not". I love being told by a man what women require in a potential mate, as in my 43 years I have yet to figure it out on my own. Thank you!

To be less snarky, Malkynn's response is spot on. There is absolutely no reason to go into debt. That would send me and most women I know running much more quickly than a twin bed. I have also seen very few places in the west, even single room rentals, where concessions couldn't be made for a larger bed (even if it is a fold out couch). After one year, most relationships should be moving into financial talks. Solutions should be approached together, with both parties willing to compromise. We do not have the details to give any meaningful advice, really. If I were in a similar situation, my personal response would be to stick with the cheap living situation, plan for a weekly visit to the GF's home (perhaps at a time when roommates are less likely to be hovering), or a monthly mini-break to an inexpensive airbnb. Bank the savings of living in the smaller place and then use it make a well-planned move together to a suitable location in one year.

[GuitarStv]

If OP can't afford a place that's big enough for a double bed, he should be thankful that any girl is interested in him.  Move to the bigger place whether you can afford it or not and then figure out how to increase your income if you need to.  And I'm saying this as a frugal person when it comes to my lifestyle and relationships.  You will lead a very lonely life if you aren't willing or able to get a double bed.

This is a patently untrue blanket statement and a borderline misogynistic thing to say. I always forget there is a subset of the population that thinks we womenfolk only care about outward displays of wealth so men should spend themselves into debt to show they are the peacock with the biggest feathers. Responsibility, thoughtfulness, and planning, which is the vibe I got from the OP, goes much further with most women looking for a true adult relationship compared to putting on airs of false affluence. I'd dump someone like a hot potato if I found out they were going into debt to impress anyone, even if I was the one they were trying to impress.

I also would not advocate going into debt over this, but I agree with the first and last sentences. They've sized their life for one person, physically, fiscally, and thus also emotionally. There needs to be some space in which to allow a partner if you're serious about having a partner. It's not about attracting women with displays of wealth.

I disagree.
The only reason this is an unsolvable issue is that OP is unable/unwilling to spend time around his GF's roommates. A relationship doesn't require two dwellings that are suitable for two people, just one.

I know an incredibly charming woodsy artist who lives in a tree fort most of the year and has a hole in the ground as a toilet. He has no problem finding girlfriends even though his lifestyle isn't even suitable for one person, much less two. However, he is perfectly happy spending time in whatever dwelling his current GF has.

This guy is so goddamn talented and charming, I'm willing to bet he has a much easier time finding women to date him than most men who own nice homes.

I know an abusive and violent man who has no problems finding women to date him.  Near as I can figure, he's pretty good at initially drawing women to him, then has a lot of skill beating down their self confidence and crushing their sense of self over time.  He finds women to date pretty easily - much easier than most men I know.  There's a woman (or man) for everyone out there . . . even if you beat on your partner, or shit in a dirt hole under your tree fort.

That said, I think some basic guidelines are generally reasonable advice for the majority of people regarding dating.  I don't think it's too controversial to make the argument that living at the whim of family members in a tiny room without enough space for two is likely to be a bit of a hindrance while dating.

[Metalcat]

If OP can't afford a place that's big enough for a double bed, he should be thankful that any girl is interested in him.  Move to the bigger place whether you can afford it or not and then figure out how to increase your income if you need to.  And I'm saying this as a frugal person when it comes to my lifestyle and relationships.  You will lead a very lonely life if you aren't willing or able to get a double bed.

This is a patently untrue blanket statement and a borderline misogynistic thing to say. I always forget there is a subset of the population that thinks we womenfolk only care about outward displays of wealth so men should spend themselves into debt to show they are the peacock with the biggest feathers. Responsibility, thoughtfulness, and planning, which is the vibe I got from the OP, goes much further with most women looking for a true adult relationship compared to putting on airs of false affluence. I'd dump someone like a hot potato if I found out they were going into debt to impress anyone, even if I was the one they were trying to impress.

I also would not advocate going into debt over this, but I agree with the first and last sentences. They've sized their life for one person, physically, fiscally, and thus also emotionally. There needs to be some space in which to allow a partner if you're serious about having a partner. It's not about attracting women with displays of wealth.

I disagree.
The only reason this is an unsolvable issue is that OP is unable/unwilling to spend time around his GF's roommates. A relationship doesn't require two dwellings that are suitable for two people, just one.

I know an incredibly charming woodsy artist who lives in a tree fort most of the year and has a hole in the ground as a toilet. He has no problem finding girlfriends even though his lifestyle isn't even suitable for one person, much less two. However, he is perfectly happy spending time in whatever dwelling his current GF has.

This guy is so goddamn talented and charming, I'm willing to bet he has a much easier time finding women to date him than most men who own nice homes.

I know an abusive and violent man who has no problems finding women to date him.  Near as I can figure, he's pretty good at initially drawing women to him, then has a lot of skill beating down their self confidence and crushing their sense of self over time.  He finds women to date pretty easily - much easier than most men I know.  There's a woman (or man) for everyone out there . . . even if you beat on your partner, or shit in a dirt hole under your tree fort.

That said, I think some basic guidelines are generally reasonable advice for the majority of people regarding dating.  I don't think it's too controversial to make the argument that living at the whim of family members in a tiny room without enough space for two is likely to be a bit of a hindrance while dating.

PP didn't say it was "a bit of a hindrance" they said that it's unlikely that "any" woman would be interested in someone who only has a single bed, whether they can afford more space or not.

Of course being significantly different from the norm will limit someone's options, but that's not the same as saying that because someone lives differently from the norm that they won't have any romantic options.

If being ultra frugal is someone's thing, then they're likely to attract equally ultra frugal people, and a single bed in a subsidized apartment may actually be *more* attractive to certain women, even if there are very few of them.

[CNM]

I understood that OP and his girlfriend would be renting a place together- so both would move from their current situations.  This is why he says rent will be 6x his current amount, but he'd be responsible for only half of it (3x his current rent).

[wageslave23]

If OP can't afford a place that's big enough for a double bed, he should be thankful that any girl is interested in him.  Move to the bigger place whether you can afford it or not and then figure out how to increase your income if you need to.  And I'm saying this as a frugal person when it comes to my lifestyle and relationships.  You will lead a very lonely life if you aren't willing or able to get a double bed.

This is a patently untrue blanket statement and a borderline misogynistic thing to say. I always forget there is a subset of the population that thinks we womenfolk only care about outward displays of wealth so men should spend themselves into debt to show they are the peacock with the biggest feathers. Responsibility, thoughtfulness, and planning, which is the vibe I got from the OP, goes much further with most women looking for a true adult relationship compared to putting on airs of false affluence. I'd dump someone like a hot potato if I found out they were going into debt to impress anyone, even if I was the one they were trying to impress.

I also would not advocate going into debt over this, but I agree with the first and last sentences. They've sized their life for one person, physically, fiscally, and thus also emotionally. There needs to be some space in which to allow a partner if you're serious about having a partner. It's not about attracting women with displays of wealth.

I disagree.
The only reason this is an unsolvable issue is that OP is unable/unwilling to spend time around his GF's roommates. A relationship doesn't require two dwellings that are suitable for two people, just one.

I know an incredibly charming woodsy artist who lives in a tree fort most of the year and has a hole in the ground as a toilet. He has no problem finding girlfriends even though his lifestyle isn't even suitable for one person, much less two. However, he is perfectly happy spending time in whatever dwelling his current GF has.

This guy is so goddamn talented and charming, I'm willing to bet he has a much easier time finding women to date him than most men who own nice homes.

I know an abusive and violent man who has no problems finding women to date him.  Near as I can figure, he's pretty good at initially drawing women to him, then has a lot of skill beating down their self confidence and crushing their sense of self over time.  He finds women to date pretty easily - much easier than most men I know.  There's a woman (or man) for everyone out there . . . even if you beat on your partner, or shit in a dirt hole under your tree fort.

That said, I think some basic guidelines are generally reasonable advice for the majority of people regarding dating.  I don't think it's too controversial to make the argument that living at the whim of family members in a tiny room without enough space for two is likely to be a bit of a hindrance while dating.

PP didn't say it was "a bit of a hindrance" they said that it's unlikely that "any" woman would be interested in someone who only has a single bed, whether they can afford more space or not.

Of course being significantly different from the norm will limit someone's options, but that's not the same as saying that because someone lives differently from the norm that they won't have any romantic options.

If being ultra frugal is someone's thing, then they're likely to attract equally ultra frugal people, and a single bed in a subsidized apartment may actually be *more* attractive to certain women, even if there are very few of them.

Sorry, I should have qualified my statement.  I forget how offended people get when you speak in hyperbole.  There are people out there who wanted to date "hot convict guy" a few years back.

[GuitarStv]

Yeah, I think it's safe to say that if Charles Manson could easily attract the ladies a dude living in a cramped family owned flat will be able to find someone.  :P

[former player]

Yeah, I think it's safe to say that if Charles Manson could easily attract the ladies a dude living in a cramped family owned flat will be able to find someone.  :P

I think the point is that he has found someone, and that person would like to have a double bed to share with him.

[Villanelle]

I understood that OP and his girlfriend would be renting a place together- so both would move from their current situations.  This is why he says rent will be 6x his current amount, but he'd be responsible for only half of it (3x his current rent).

He said that for now it would be 6x "for about a year while [they] experiment", and if/when they move in together then it would be 3x. 

[elaine amj]

Being able to afford a living space that allows for a double bed is a sign that you are able to support yourself and ready for a relationship with another person.  It has nothing to do with outward displays of wealth or misogyny.  This is similar to showering daily, keeping up with yardwork, not being in debt, being able to hold a steady job, etc.  I would expect the same from a woman.

OUCH. I guess DH and I were lucky to have found each other then. When we met, we both had single beds with no room for double beds. Good thing we never realized it was a bad sign. And yes, he had plenty of money to support me when we got married.  Looking back, all his savings on housing made a big difference in the stability of our financial lives. And definitely contributed to FIRE.



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[BicycleB]

@k290, if I recall correctly, you're in South Africa and have been investing. I don't know any numbers for your income and savings, other than some inflation rates and such from investing threads, so will address this question from the relationship aspect primarily.

You mention social anxiety. Like others, I suspect that at 29, if she wants to spend time with you, and you don't want to be near her roomies to see her, yes an apartment with room for a nice bed is a good idea for the relationship. Would you still have a positive savings rate after getting the apartment?

"Save" the relationship implies to me that:
1) you two have a relationship
2) it's in trouble
3) the apartment will save it.

If all of these are true, and you have a positive savings rate, then your new apartment path is a normal adult thing in the society I know (USA). Can't speak to South Africa knowledgeably.

In other posts, you referred to your current dwelling as "a shitty apartment." If you can afford better, and honestly feel it's shitty, move...but what is afford? Uncertainty about whether you'd be saving 90% or 10% or nothing in the new-apartment situation is much more important that the ratio of apartment rents.

So are the feelings of the lady in question, and also the godparents. What have these parties said about the situation exactly?

[k290]

if my SO was not prepared to put enough into the relationship to even move into somewhere with a double bed and privacy then I would quite likely be thinking that my SO was so little invested in the relationship and having a life together that I would move on and look for someone who was a better bet for my future. 

Why can't the girlfriend get her own place that has privacy and room for a double bed?  Not sure why the guy has to do it at this point.  Seems kind of sexist to expect the guy to provide the private apartment.   

Having said that, I do think adults interested in having intimate relationships should have adult size beds and think OP should at least move into a shared apartment with a full size bedroom situation.

She will also be doing that when her lease expires because she is sick of her roommates. No sexism here.

[k290]

@k290, if I recall correctly, you're in South Africa and have been investing. I don't know any numbers for your income and savings, other than some inflation rates and such from investing threads, so will address this question from the relationship aspect primarily.

You mention social anxiety. Like others, I suspect that at 29, if she wants to spend time with you, and you don't want to be near her roomies to see her, yes an apartment with room for a nice bed is a good idea for the relationship. Would you still have a positive savings rate after getting the apartment?

"Save" the relationship implies to me that:
1) you two have a relationship
2) it's in trouble
3) the apartment will save it.

If all of these are true, and you have a positive savings rate, then your new apartment path is a normal adult thing in the society I know (USA). Can't speak to South Africa knowledgeably.

In other posts, you referred to your current dwelling as "a shitty apartment." If you can afford better, and honestly feel it's shitty, move...but what is afford? Uncertainty about whether you'd be saving 90% or 10% or nothing in the new-apartment situation is much more important that the ratio of apartment rents.

So are the feelings of the lady in question, and also the godparents. What have these parties said about the situation exactly?

@Bicycle_B I will still have a positive savings rate. But my rent will go from something like 9% of my post-tax, post-deduction takehome pay to 30%-40% of my takehome depending on how smart I am at finding a new rental and the area COL. That is why its troubling. It was so nice to save so much money.

And yes the relationship won't last in the current situation. In every other aspect its good, but the living arrangements combined with the driving distance in crime-ridden south africa, are starting to weigh down on the relationship.

I would add that she fully supports my early retirment goals and we are financially compatible

[k290]

I am adding that I think I am going to take the AirBNB advice some people have thrown out here, for maybe 6 months.

I am risk averse and even after a year it seems like a big change to make that might not payoff. AirBNBing is a good segway.

I had discarded that idea because my girlfriend thought it would be expensive. But its significantly cheaper, and less of a life change than moving.

[wageslave23]

Being able to afford a living space that allows for a double bed is a sign that you are able to support yourself and ready for a relationship with another person.  It has nothing to do with outward displays of wealth or misogyny.  This is similar to showering daily, keeping up with yardwork, not being in debt, being able to hold a steady job, etc.  I would expect the same from a woman.

OUCH. I guess DH and I were lucky to have found each other then. When we met, we both had single beds with no room for double beds. Good thing we never realized it was a bad sign. And yes, he had plenty of money to support me when we got married.  Looking back, all his savings on housing made a big difference in the stability of our financial lives. And definitely contributed to FIRE.



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So when the time for upgrading to a double bed was appropriate for your relationship did he pull the trigger? 

[BicycleB]

I am adding that I think I am going to take the AirBNB advice some people have thrown out here, for maybe 6 months.

I am risk averse and even after a year it seems like a big change to make that might not payoff. AirBNBing is a good segway.

I had discarded that idea because my girlfriend thought it would be expensive. But its significantly cheaper, and less of a life change than moving.

Cheaper and safer, yet thrifty girlfriend can feel courted because you value her enough to put forth this this expense that is clearly for her / for the specific purpose of the two of you deepening your romance?

Sounds like a winner!

Of course the "payoff" will in part be how she feels about it over time. My guess is she'll understand your logic after a while, and respect it.

Let us know what happens (appropriately, of course)...

[elaine amj]

Being able to afford a living space that allows for a double bed is a sign that you are able to support yourself and ready for a relationship with another person.  It has nothing to do with outward displays of wealth or misogyny.  This is similar to showering daily, keeping up with yardwork, not being in debt, being able to hold a steady job, etc.  I would expect the same from a woman.

OUCH. I guess DH and I were lucky to have found each other then. When we met, we both had single beds with no room for double beds. Good thing we never realized it was a bad sign. And yes, he had plenty of money to support me when we got married.  Looking back, all his savings on housing made a big difference in the stability of our financial lives. And definitely contributed to FIRE.

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So when the time for upgrading to a double bed was appropriate for your relationship did he pull the trigger?

We got married and bought a double bed :) So he didn't pull the trigger until we made a long term commitment to each other. Would not have been necessary before that long term commitment and it allowed him to save more as we prepared for the long term commitment.

But really, we are mostly saying the same thing - what IS important is that as the relationship progresses, the two become a couple and decisions are made considering the needs and wants of both. You can't operate in a single silo as the things you do affect the other.

I just feel that it is a continuum and I would not expect the same considerations in the early or middle stages as I would in a long term fully committed partnership.

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[MrThatsDifferent]

I am adding that I think I am going to take the AirBNB advice some people have thrown out here, for maybe 6 months.

I am risk averse and even after a year it seems like a big change to make that might not payoff. AirBNBing is a good segway.

I had discarded that idea because my girlfriend thought it would be expensive. But its significantly cheaper, and less of a life change than moving.

This is the second time in a week that I’ve seen someone spell segue “segway”. I’m concerned.