Moving to Canada from US with mid-term goal of FIRE

[Goldielocks]

I have another tip for you.  Some banks (Royal bank for sure) will let you hold usd in your investment account right alongside  cnd, so you can buy USD vanguard etfs and hold them in our rrsp or TFSA, you don't have to invest in cnd at all if you don't want to.

Norbert's gambit will be super useful for you to read up on too. 

http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2013/12/03/norberts-gambit-the-complete-guide/

Americans shouldn't be touching the TFSA with a barge pole.

Well, not until they cut ties sufficiently that they aren't filing dual taxes.  Hopefully, one day, the tax treaty will recognize it like a ROTH.

[Goldielocks]

I have another tip for you.  Some banks (Royal bank for sure) will let you hold usd in your investment account right alongside  cnd, so you can buy USD vanguard etfs and hold them in our rrsp or TFSA, you don't have to invest in cnd at all if you don't want to.

Norbert's gambit will be super useful for you to read up on too. 

http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2013/12/03/norberts-gambit-the-complete-guide/

Americans shouldn't be touching the TFSA with a barge pole.

Likewise no one should hold ETFs with US component in a TFSA as US tax is still deducted with no possibility of tax credit.

WRONG!   (about the TFSA being a bad place, not about the fact it is still taxed)

The US ETFs will be taxed in the TFSA at 15% if you file the W8-BEN (or whatever its called) form, 30% at the full non tax treaty rate.

Compare this to tax on interest / dividends earned in a non-registered account at full marginal income tax rate, which is nearly ALWAYS more then 15%.

Even in a RRSP, although there is no withholding (15%) tax, you will eventually pay the full marginal income tax rate on it, so a TFSA could still be better for some people for US ETFs than the RRSP...   (depending on many factors) 

TFSA's are AWESOME.

[Retire-Canada]

Even in a RRSP, although there is no withholding (15%) tax, you will eventually pay the full marginal income tax rate on it, so a TFSA could still be better for some people for US ETFs than the RRSP...   

The key with the RRSP is you invest pre-tax dollars so the only way you will lose out to a TFSA is if your marginal tax rate at withdrawal is higher than when you put the money in.

[Goldielocks]

Even in a RRSP, although there is no withholding (15%) tax, you will eventually pay the full marginal income tax rate on it, so a TFSA could still be better for some people for US ETFs than the RRSP...   

The key with the RRSP is you invest pre-tax dollars so the only way you will lose out to a TFSA is if your marginal tax rate at withdrawal is higher than when you put the money in.

Yes, and that is a very real possibility for many high rate savers.   

Also, the incremental difference is magnified by the number of years the money stays in the plan;  under 10 years and the advantage of RRSP due to tax free growth of pre tax money is minor, compared to the TFSA, but the TFSA's ease of use (i.e., not losing the contribution room when you withdraw is a big one) is tremendous.

[Retire-Canada]

Also, the incremental difference is magnified by the number of years the money stays in the plan;  under 10 years and the advantage of RRSP due to tax free growth of pre tax money is minor, compared to the TFSA, but the TFSA's ease of use (i.e., not losing the contribution room when you withdraw is a big one) is tremendous.

If you are a high saver you will easily max both the RRSP and TFSA so I don't see it as much of a choice really.

Additionally if you are a high saver why would your FIRE tax rate be higher than your savings tax rate? When saving you earning you actual cost of living + you high amount of savings each year. When you are retired you are just withdrawing your actual cost of living. At a 50% savings rate you would have to double your spending in retirement to be equivalent to your working income and to make the RRSP worse than a TFSA you'd actually have to reach the next higher marginal tax bracket so you'd have to be spending like a drunken sailor.

I agree the TFSA has some nice features. I max both.

[Goldielocks]

Also, the incremental difference is magnified by the number of years the money stays in the plan;  under 10 years and the advantage of RRSP due to tax free growth of pre tax money is minor, compared to the TFSA, but the TFSA's ease of use (i.e., not losing the contribution room when you withdraw is a big one) is tremendous.

If you are a high saver you will easily max both the RRSP and TFSA so I don't see it as much of a choice really.

Additionally if you are a high saver why would your FIRE tax rate be higher than your savings tax rate? When saving you earning you actual cost of living + you high amount of savings each year. When you are retired you are just withdrawing your actual cost of living. At a 50% savings rate you would have to double your spending in retirement to be equivalent to your working income and to make the RRSP worse than a TFSA you'd actually have to reach the next higher marginal tax bracket so you'd have to be spending like a drunken sailor.

I agree the TFSA has some nice features. I max both.

My danger is that the RRSP will grow tremendously over the decades until I touch it...  and as a high saver, many years I don't pay the highest two bands of marginal tax rate, but I do add a lot to RRSP.     I am always torn between when to stop adding to the RRSP and start non-registered... because of the potential tax rate differential...  then I found MMM and the idea of touching RRSP before age 65 (which had never occured to me before) was born, but had not taken root yet.

[Retire-Canada]

My danger is that the RRSP will grow tremendously over the decades until I touch it...  and as a high saver, many years I don't pay the highest two bands of marginal tax rate, but I do add a lot to RRSP.     I am always torn between when to stop adding to the RRSP and start non-registered... because of the potential tax rate differential...  then I found MMM and the idea of touching RRSP before age 65 (which had never occured to me before) was born, but had not taken root yet.

I plan to WR from my RRSP first until projections show the expected value results in mandatory withdrawals below my spending needs [including CPP & OAS]. That will keep my RRSP in check and ensure I am WR at a favourable tax rate.

[FIRE Artist]

I have another tip for you.  Some banks (Royal bank for sure) will let you hold usd in your investment account right alongside  cnd, so you can buy USD vanguard etfs and hold them in our rrsp or TFSA, you don't have to invest in cnd at all if you don't want to.

Norbert's gambit will be super useful for you to read up on too. 

http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2013/12/03/norberts-gambit-the-complete-guide/

Americans shouldn't be touching the TFSA with a barge pole.

Likewise no one should hold ETFs with US component in a TFSA as US tax is still deducted with no possibility of tax credit.

WRONG!   (about the TFSA being a bad place, not about the fact it is still taxed)

The US ETFs will be taxed in the TFSA at 15% if you file the W8-BEN (or whatever its called) form, 30% at the full non tax treaty rate.

Compare this to tax on interest / dividends earned in a non-registered account at full marginal income tax rate, which is nearly ALWAYS more then 15%.

Even in a RRSP, although there is no withholding (15%) tax, you will eventually pay the full marginal income tax rate on it, so a TFSA could still be better for some people for US ETFs than the RRSP...   (depending on many factors) 

TFSA's are AWESOME.

I never said TFSA's are not awesome, just that US assets don't belong there, but this is assuming the person who I am giving this advice to is mustachian, holds a balanced portfolio with some percentage of fixed income,, and like myself, their assets are way more than their RRSP and TFSA room allows.  Obviously if you have room in your TFSA or rrsp, use it.

This link illustrates the scenario very well.  http://www.moneysense.ca/save/taxes/making-smarter-asset-location-decisions/

[Rockies]

Im an American who moved to Canada years ago (strangely enough I grew up in the same hometown that MMM now lives in and moved AWAY from it 10 years ago because I thought it was a deadend boring place to spend your life. He's obviously proven that wrong, but it shows how its all based on your personal perspective). Currently I am a Permanent Resident. May at some point apply for citizenship but I am unsure of that now.

In my opinion Canada is an amazing place to live, but it also fits well with my personality and political ideals. To be honest, it doesn't fit with all Americans well. I would spend some time on vacation in your intended city of immigration to really make sure it will work for you.

Also in my opinion Western Canada is the best place on earth. Not a huge fan of the populated areas of Ontario, but thats for you to decide. I like the epic mountains and wilderness with endless ranges of unpopulated mountains and small amazing vibrant cities with creative people that are out here. There is even a special magic and beauty to the flat prairies of Saskatchewan here that doesn't exist in Kansas or the Dakotas. Again this is a completely subjective viewpoint and I accept that many will disagree.

And while the USA is cheaper and has higher paying jobs in some sectors, I truly believe that there are more interesting employment opportunities for me in Canada and higher wages to be had. That really depends on the sector you work in, however.

I'd advise you spend some time learning about Canadian culture. Watch the Trailer Park Boys, learn about their fascinating culture and history of migrant bush work (Tree Planters, Loggers, Oilfield Workers), listen to Grimes, Rush, and The Tragically Hip and eat tons of ketchup chips and poutine! Or don't do any of those things and just learn and appreciate the special things that you discover in the country.

[RetiredAt63]

I'd advise you spend some time learning about Canadian culture. Watch the Trailer Park Boys, learn about their fascinating culture and history of migrant bush work (Tree Planters, Loggers, Oilfield Workers), listen to Grimes, Rush, and The Tragically Hip and eat tons of ketchup chips and poutine! Or don't do any of those things and just learn and appreciate the special things that you discover in the country.

Yikes, I'm Canadian born and the only one of those I did/do is Rush and The Tragically Hip.  TV - Corner Gas.  Music - start in the 60s and 70s - Joni Mitchell, Gordon Lightfoot, and work your way into the present, hmm, Lighthouse, Robbie Robertson, Chilliwack, Blue Rodeo, Nickleback, lots more.

Quick quick immersion course:
Re starting cultures, the French influence is still big outside Quebec, and of course Quebec.  The British culture was really as much Scottish and Irish as actual English. Then waves and waves of other immigrants.  The American War of Independence was the American Revolution here, and we didn't join in (we were invited/invaded, but no).  Some of our founding groups (i.e. the start of New Brunswick) were political refugees from that mess, called United Empire Loyalists here.  We had another kerfluffle with the U.S. in 1812-14.  The naval side was British, but the land side was some British forces plus colonials and Natives.  These wars may have been over a century ago now, but they shaped the country.

Oh, vocabulary.  You are not "America" (that is the name of two continents) you are the U.S.

We may look similar from the outside, but once you are here you will see the differences.

[seanc0x0]

From the US State Dept website - although perhaps open to interpretation of what "intent" means:

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal-considerations/us-citizenship-laws-policies/citizenship-and-dual-nationality/dual-nationality.html

"A U.S. national may acquire foreign nationality by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. national may not lose the nationality of the country of birth. U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one nationality or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another nationality does not risk losing U.S. nationality. However, a person who acquires a foreign nationality by applying for it may lose U.S. nationality. In order to lose U.S. nationality, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign nationality voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. nationality.

Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct. The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. nationals may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist nationals abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance."

I was just pointing out that I had read things like this before - if you are a US citizen by birth, without ties to another country, and then voluntarily become a citizen of another nation, you could have your US citizenship revoked.

I would be curious if there is anyone here who has done this  ?SoftwareGoddess? - being a US citizen applying to becoming Canadian, not Canadian to US, or US with a marriage or childhood tie to Canada.

Again, perhaps this doesn't happen much?. Maybe folks stay as a permanent resident? As you can tell, I am interested since my oldest is thinking about going to college in Canada and thinking about staying.

You have to not only take a second citizenship with the intent to lose US nationality, but you also have to go through the reliquishment process before the US will revoke your citizenship.  This process is long, complicated, and expensive.

I've gone through the process of renunciation, which is essentially the same thing. It currently costs $2300USD to go through the process (up from $400 a few years ago, when they started getting swamped with relinquishment/renunciations). You will have to make at least 1 visit to a consulate, and some require multiple visits, it's not standardized (fortunately the Calgary consulate was 1 visit only). You'll also need to be up to date on US taxes.

If you're never returning to the US to live, it's totally worth it though. It's annoying and stressful, but after it's done it's nice to not have to worry about FBARs and FATCA and the possibility of being on the hook for huge penalties if you mess up even a little.

One more caution, that I didn't know about at the time. If you haven't performed a relinquishing act (defined by US law), you can renounce.  Renouncing will get your name in the NICS database, so crossing the border you'll be flagged as someone who gave up citizenship. This doesn't happen for relinquishment, so if you can, go that route.

[daverobev]

I have another tip for you.  Some banks (Royal bank for sure) will let you hold usd in your investment account right alongside  cnd, so you can buy USD vanguard etfs and hold them in our rrsp or TFSA, you don't have to invest in cnd at all if you don't want to.

Norbert's gambit will be super useful for you to read up on too. 

http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2013/12/03/norberts-gambit-the-complete-guide/

Americans shouldn't be touching the TFSA with a barge pole.

Likewise no one should hold ETFs with US component in a TFSA as US tax is still deducted with no possibility of tax credit.

WRONG!   (about the TFSA being a bad place, not about the fact it is still taxed)

The US ETFs will be taxed in the TFSA at 15% if you file the W8-BEN (or whatever its called) form, 30% at the full non tax treaty rate.

Compare this to tax on interest / dividends earned in a non-registered account at full marginal income tax rate, which is nearly ALWAYS more then 15%.

Even in a RRSP, although there is no withholding (15%) tax, you will eventually pay the full marginal income tax rate on it, so a TFSA could still be better for some people for US ETFs than the RRSP...   (depending on many factors) 

TFSA's are AWESOME.

TFSAs are awesome. But not for anyone with US citizenship/green card; AFAIK the filing requirements are onerous because the TFSA is treated as some weird trust setup, and is actually taxed worse than if it were just unregistered.

That's from reading, but not researching with intent, because I have no need to know. But, again, AFAIK it's not just "oh you'll be taxed 15%" - it's worse.

[snapperdude]

Yikes, I'm Canadian born and the only one of those I did/do is Rush and The Tragically Hip.  TV - Corner Gas.  Music - start in the 60s and 70s - Joni Mitchell, Gordon Lightfoot, and work your way into the present, hmm, Lighthouse, Robbie Robertson, Chilliwack, Blue Rodeo, Nickleback, lots more.

I can't believe you left out The Guess Who. You should be runnin' back to Saskatoon.

[RetiredAt63]

Yikes, I'm Canadian born and the only one of those I did/do is Rush and The Tragically Hip.  TV - Corner Gas.  Music - start in the 60s and 70s - Joni Mitchell, Gordon Lightfoot, and work your way into the present, hmm, Lighthouse, Robbie Robertson, Chilliwack, Blue Rodeo, Nickleback, lots more.

I can't believe you left out The Guess Who. You should be runnin' back to Saskatoon.

OM - you are so right!  But really we could fill a page with good Canadian bands.  And I didn't even do the 50's, Paul Anka, etc.  And Don Messer's Jubilee (I have one of their CDs), good fiddle music.

[Moustachienne]

Or in the 21st century...  Drake, The Weekend, Grimes, Magical Clouds, New Pornographers, Arcade Fire.  And for other tastes...Michael Buble, the Biebs, Celine.

[FIRE Artist]

I think there is a big difference between world famous, happen to be Canadians and Canadian acts.  Drake, Buble and the like are world famous and happen to be Canadians.  Blue Rodeo and The Hip are Canadian acts, appreciation for which can only really be fostered from our side of the border.

[CanuckExpat]

One thing worth looking into is the TN, or Nafta visa. It's a trilateral agreement that allows certain categories of skilled professionals to very easily work  in each country. This a very common route for Canadian's who work in the US tech industry to get their initial visas. You mention your husband works for a large company who has a presence in the area you are moving to, so the good news is they should hold your hand a lot. There is usually a lot more leeway for inter company transfers, and big companies are good at providing you immigration resources (but you have to do your own due diligence, and don't trust the lawyers too much).

I'm mainly speaking from my experience as a Canadian moving to the US, and extrapolating/guessing.

OP, you mention kids in your post but not the timelines of when you want to have them compared to when you retire. Strangely enough, the Canadian government pays you to have children (Canada Child Benefit). If you are a Canadian Citizen, or permanent resident, and are a tax resident of Canada with less than $30,000 in annual net income you receive $6,400 per child under the age of 6,  $5,400 per child aged 6 through 17. The amounts decrease with income, and phase out at a certain level. Depending on your timing of having children, and planned taxable income, you could be a beneficiary.

Waterloo/Kitchener is a growing town. I know people who live in both and they love it. I don't think housing is considered cheap, not by cheap US city standards at least. Have you looked at houses in the regions you might want to live? Canada never had a 2008 style housing crash, so real estate will take a big chunk (perhaps cheap compared to the US West at least).

One last thing to consider is how final your plans are, and where you will keep your funds. Currency risk is something that is very hard to mitigate against, especially when the future is so unknown.

[Goldielocks]

One thing worth looking into is the TN, or Nafta visa.

The TN has one or two fewer residency / tax advantages when living and filing in the USA, versus other types of  work visa, when you have spouses / children living you, who are not visa holders in their own right... but Canada does not really recognize filing jointly, so moot point. ...  I have no idea what a future renegotiated NAFTA will do to my TN...

OP, you mention kids in your post but not the timelines of when you want to have them compared to when you retire. Strangely enough, the Canadian government pays you to have children (Canada Child Benefit). If you are a Canadian Citizen, or permanent resident, and are a tax resident of Canada with less than $30,000 in annual net income you receive $6,400 per child under the age of 6,  $5,400 per child aged 6 through 17. The amounts decrease with income, and phase out at a certain level. Depending on your timing of having children, and planned taxable income, you could be a beneficiary.

I can attest that families over $120k in income get far less child tax beneft.  We were at $600 to $1200 per child per year ever since our kids were 4 and 6 years old, for example, the new changes help at the lower end, not the upper end.

Child tax benefit is fully phased out by the time family income is between $160k and $200k, or so, depending on number and ages of children... And it is decreasing at a steady rate until the cut off.

http://www.moneysense.ca/save/taxes/budget-winners-and-losers-child-benefit/
This link is cool because it shows the effective tax rate, inclusive of the child tax benefits, for a family with 3 kids under age 6.  I can think of a few posters on this forum that would love to have this money, especially those living in a LCOL area with only one parent working.

One last thing to consider is how final your plans are, and where you will keep your funds. Currency risk is something that is very hard to mitigate against, especially when the future is so unknown.

My recommendation to others is to keep the majority (e.g 65% or more) of your retirement in the currency of the country for which you plan to retire.  You will miss out on some of the upside currency opportunity, but negate most of the downside risks.    Much easier to be a bit sad that your returns are half what you expected, compared to losing out on 30% of your total fund over a short time, just before you retire.  (I watched it happen to others)

[Reynolds531]

The further away from Toronto you get the cheaper it is. Check out Woodstock or maybe Stratford.

[garth]

Any updates, NWJo? I'm starting to think about relocating to Canada from the US and am trying to get a handle on all the different cross-border financial issues at play.

[Rover12]

It's timely that I chose to peruse the forums today. My partner and I are US citizens and she has a job offer from a university in NB to teach. It's about 3 hours from where we live in the US but it's still across the border. I have a great job in the US (though not one I love) that doesn't exist really in Canada. We are excited about her getting a teaching job after years of schooling, but it's not a great salary because of the exchange rate and I am worried about taxes, particularly if I continue working two days a week in the States .

The discussion on here is one I have had in my head many times with tax considerations, etc. Our net worth is considerably lower than the person who started this thread (~$400k) and while the city in NB we would move to has lots of things that we are looking for (walkable, bikeable, small), we can't live on just her salary if we want to continue to save. I will work on my residency papers at the same time she does, but honestly, I will have to commute to the States to keep my healthcare license active anyway until we know if this is a permanent move. I could go lifeguard or work in Costco for all I care in Canada, it would just be unfulfilling and not the rate of pay I worked hard to achieve.

So, I guess I'm saying thanks for the insight regarding taxes, though it does still leave things a bit muddled. I am happy to know there are people with a goal of financial independence still considering this as a move, so it won't be financial suicide (the reports I read of $10k for tax preparations had me concerned) and I just need to focus on finding a job or getting an electric car to offset the 6 hours of driving weekly until we have achieved FI and I can do what I please.

Any thoughts are appreciated!

[The Fake Cheap]

It's timely that I chose to peruse the forums today. My partner and I are US citizens and she has a job offer from a university in NB to teach. It's about 3 hours from where we live in the US but it's still across the border. I have a great job in the US (though not one I love) that doesn't exist really in Canada. We are excited about her getting a teaching job after years of schooling, but it's not a great salary because of the exchange rate and I am worried about taxes, particularly if I continue working two days a week in the States .

The discussion on here is one I have had in my head many times with tax considerations, etc. Our net worth is considerably lower than the person who started this thread (~$400k) and while the city in NB we would move to has lots of things that we are looking for (walkable, bikeable, small), we can't live on just her salary if we want to continue to save. I will work on my residency papers at the same time she does, but honestly, I will have to commute to the States to keep my healthcare license active anyway until we know if this is a permanent move. I could go lifeguard or work in Costco for all I care in Canada, it would just be unfulfilling and not the rate of pay I worked hard to achieve.

So, I guess I'm saying thanks for the insight regarding taxes, though it does still leave things a bit muddled. I am happy to know there are people with a goal of financial independence still considering this as a move, so it won't be financial suicide (the reports I read of $10k for tax preparations had me concerned) and I just need to focus on finding a job or getting an electric car to offset the 6 hours of driving weekly until we have achieved FI and I can do what I please.

Any thoughts are appreciated!

If you happen to take the plunge, then welcome to NB!  I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have about my neck of the woods, if you are coming from Maine, you already know what the weather will be like!

[Rover12]

@Thefakecheap- thanks for your response. I actually started a new thread in the "Ask a Mustachian" section entitled "Canada Move" for more specific questions if you have time to weigh in now that we've taken the  plunge!

[Josey_L]

A bit of an update for anyone who has been following along (and apologies for the long delay). I quit my job three weeks ago to stay home with our daughter and informed my firm that we were moving to Waterloo for my husband's job. He has found a team in the KW office that will take him, so we are all set from a job perspective. We have even learned that he can take three months of unpaid leave and retain his (and now our) health benefits--amazing! So, I think we are going to take the plunge, and maybe do a little slow travel in Mexico and Hawaii before heading to Ontario in late-March to early-April.

We visited KW back in July and while we didn't fall instantly in love, I can see that it has all the markings of a good place to raise a family. We will miss some very dear friends and the dramatic beauty of the West Coast, but know that with time we will adjust to our new home and will eventually make new friends. Moving as an adult, with a career, house, and child is no joke, y'all. Every move prior has just felt like a fun adventure--pack up the hatchback and move with very few complications!  This is so much more difficult and heart-wrenching.  BUT, we keep telling ourselves that if we don't like KW after two years, we can find a new Canadian city, we can move to upstate NY, or we can even move back to Seattle and keep working a little longer to afford the lifestyle out here.

Can anyone on here speak to the emotional and logistical challenges of moving with a family? I'd love to hear how others coped during the transition and fared in their ultimate location. Thanks!

[Goldielocks]

What are the ages of your kids?   I found that I have relocated internationally -- on my own, with my DH before kids, and then with kids in elementary school/ preschool.

The hardest was the school and being worried to the extreme about my kids settling in, my needing to learn how the school system worked, etc.   If you plan to be at home with them for a while, that is a great idea, it will help (you, mom and dad) adjust.

Waterloo is terrific, all the young families want to live there because it is pretty and cheap, and a lot of new energy with the in-migration to the area.  I think you will make friends quickly, be certain to just ask for playdates, then invite other parents over for dinner.  If you are at all churchy, try to attend a few different ones a few times each.   KW is not intensely religious, many just go as a community activity and means of gaining a network of friends.   Also, I recommend getting a part time job after about 6 months (or less) to meet more people.

The next hardest parts for us was 1) DH not being able to work for a while because waiting for all the paperwork, and as a SAHD, not too many other moms at school drop off would chat with him.. he started isolating.  2) Figuring out the new work / neighborhood culture.  It was more different (nice, but different) than I thought it would be.  For example, my work involved longer hours than I had realized it would, people around us were not frugal so we were always a bit strange to them (we drove a 7 year old minivan, by far the oldest car on the lot).

Technical challenges were building a credit rating from nothing and learning how mortgages actually worked in the new country, how taxes worked, etc.   

[Peony]

Posting to follow. I'm a U.S. citizen with Canadian permanent residency, currently dividing my time between NY State and Quebec. My income is all from the U.S. (rental property + part-time job) at this point. Beginning in 2018 I intend to be in Quebec more than in the U.S. and pay taxes in Canada (of course filing in U.S. as well), and possibly work part-time in Montreal. Much planning is involved. I'm working with a Canadian tax accountant now so that I have an idea of what's in store. Dude bills at C$500+ per hour (gulp), but I want the expert advice. I do envision myself going for dual citizenship as soon as I'm eligible because counting days of residency is a chore for someone like me who goes back and forth a lot, and as my mom, in the U.S., ages I know I may need the freedom to help her for extended periods. I love Canada and wish I had "found" it 25 years ago. I would have loved to have raised my kids in Montreal, my adopted city.

[Josey_L]

What are the ages of your kids?   I found that I have relocated internationally -- on my own, with my DH before kids, and then with kids in elementary school/ preschool.

Waterloo is terrific, all the young families want to live there because it is pretty and cheap, and a lot of new energy with the in-migration to the area.  I think you will make friends quickly, be certain to just ask for playdates, then invite other parents over for dinner.  If you are at all churchy, try to attend a few different ones a few times each.   KW is not intensely religious, many just go as a community activity and means of gaining a network of friends.   Also, I recommend getting a part time job after about 6 months (or less) to meet more people.

The next hardest parts for us was 1) DH not being able to work for a while because waiting for all the paperwork, and as a SAHD, not too many other moms at school drop off would chat with him.. he started isolating.  2) Figuring out the new work / neighborhood culture.  It was more different (nice, but different) than I thought it would be.  For example, my work involved longer hours than I had realized it would, people around us were not frugal so we were always a bit strange to them (we drove a 7 year old minivan, by far the oldest car on the lot).

Technical challenges were building a credit rating from nothing and learning how mortgages actually worked in the new country, how taxes worked, etc.   

My daughter will be 2 when we move. I think she'll adapt easily at such a young age and I'm hoping I can meet some other parents of young kids to have playdates with. Then, I can be our family ambassador--figuring out life in a new place, making new friends, etc. :)  Thanks for the tips on playdates and asking parents over for dinner. And I think the idea to get a part-time job is a great one. It would be nice to put my daughter in preschool part-time too, for our mutual sanity and enjoyment!

We go to a Unitarian church in Seattle--it's a popular denomination in liberal cities in the US, but I'm not sure how popular it is in Canada. We'll be checking out the local KW congregation and hope we click with folks.  It's good to know that people aren't too intensely religious if we want to look around at other churches as a way to meet people.

Thanks so much Goldielocks for such a thoughtful and helpful response!

[I'm a red panda]

Also posting to follow...I dream of moving to Canada.
I'm willing to assimilate into the culture. I'm polite, my relatives helped found Montreal, I knit well, and am happy to cheer for Tessa and Scott instead of the Shibutanis if I have to.

My husband would likely be the one to get us in though. I think his job skills are more transferable (I have a masters in math education and work in assessment, he has a PHD in chemistry) and he speaks French decently. He won't pull the plug though. And we are starting to near 40, so running out of time.

[stealthwealth]

My wife and I have long term plans to relocate to Winnipeg or Calgary.  We see them as some of the few major cities that will be habitable with climate change, and also we believe Canada has a vastly superior culture and social contract compared to the US.  In terms of Canadian residency, I will turn 40 in a year, but I am three years older than my wife, who is also self-employed.  I am self-employable, but I do currently work for a Canadian-American with dual residency.  I've thought about asking if I can relocate to establish a "branch office" north of the border to get us started. 

[ramblez]

My wife and I have long term plans to relocate to Winnipeg or Calgary.  We see them as some of the few major cities that will be habitable with climate change, and also we believe Canada has a vastly superior culture and social contract compared to the US.  In terms of Canadian residency, I will turn 40 in a year, but I am three years older than my wife, who is also self-employed.  I am self-employable, but I do currently work for a Canadian-American with dual residency.  I've thought about asking if I can relocate to establish a "branch office" north of the border to get us started.

As a Canadian, I actually refute that statement and I've lived here all my life.  What makes you say that?  Most of our media (news as well as popular culture), the restaurant chains, the retail stores (including our very own fake Black Friday), the sports people follow, are all imported from the U.S.    We are all about the USA.  Meanwhile, I have visited the U.S. upwards of 100 times and to the south of the border very little is mentioned about Canada, other than the cold weather fronts... 

I do agree with the social contract though.  I think that is what most Canadians feel is our positive "selling" point.

[Goldielocks]

Speaking to the culture aspect, I assumed that Stealthwealth was referring to Winnipeg's terrific and affordable arts scene and myriad opportunities for learning/discussion through the universities, museums - especially the Museum of Human Rights, and the stream of festivals that entertain us year round. We're isolated and cold - we need to have fun things to lure us out!

Now, Winnipeg's wealth of high culture at a reasonable price isn't necessarily representative of the whole country. It was virtually absent where I was in BC, ample but horrendously expensive in Ottawa, though is actually pretty amazing in Montreal. 

That said, I spent a few years in Colorado without ever getting bored, so to each their own.

Did you really just say that BC doesn't have a "High" culture...?

[stealthwealth]

Let's just say in the rock music world, Canada punches far above its weight and in my opinion often leads.  Japandroids?  Wolf Parade?  Feist?  BSS?  Stars?  Arcade Fire (okay, by way of TX/Haiti)...to name a few.  Your music scene is *killer*.  But seriously, any culture that is based on a good social contract instead of resentment, fear, and isolationism is inherently superior to the US.