Move to management?

[Murse]

Hello everyone,

I need some help thinking through my situation. My current/previous thinking has always been to build a nest egg, switch to part time to get by and retire once the nest egg becomes big enough. I decided on this because I don’t think I will be FI for another 10-12 years based on our current trajectory but I would feel comfortable going part time in two years when we plan to have children. The big unknown here is my wife currently makes between 40-50k per year and I have no idea how much if any my wife will work when we have kids.

Well, it just came to my attention my boss plans to retire in twoish years. I believe I would be the best choice to replace her given my experience/current duties. So... now I have to decide if I want her position.

It would be a change from union/shift/hourly work to management/salary work. It would be roughly a 30% pay increase and comes with some flexibility around the schedule. I think I would pretty easily be able to get the time off work needed to attend important events for the kids. I have not run the numbers on how this would change the FI date.

My only concern is that I am not sure I would be allowed to step back down once I have taken the management position. I would likely have to switch jobs if I wanted to work part time.

I have pretty sweet benefits and pay already, we get by just fine. I am afraid of getting stuck in the management position if I don’t like it (I have never managed people before but think I am naturally geared to lead) or if I just decide I want to be a part timer.

If I don’t try to get this position, I fear that the person who replaces my boss could really change the workplace dynamics in a negative way.

Just so everyone is clear on the pay difference it would be around 118k in my current role full time vs around 150k in the management role.

[Maenad]

I decided against management years ago based on my own answers to the following questions:

1. What do managers do? What do they spend their time on? Is that the kind of work I would be content with? Would I like it more than what I'm doing now?
2. What kind of hours do managers work? If more, how much more? Am I OK doing that?
3. If my working hours would increase significantly, what money-saving activities would I no longer have time for? Would that consume all of the extra salary/bonus I would get?
4. Is job security significantly different between my engineering role and a manager?

In my industry, and with my work preferences, it showed me that it wasn't the path for me, but hopefully it could help clarify things for you! As to whether you could go back once you've been in management, that might depend on you. I've known a couple of people who couldn't go back to being an "individual contributor" because they always thought they knew better. Others it just meant that they understood better what their new boss was dealing with and were easier to manage as a result. Some employers may not like their people to move back, so you might have to find a job elsewhere. The Ask a Manager blog gets this question periodically and if you search there I think you might find some good advice.

[Monkey Uncle]

It's a tough decision for someone who's always been rank-and-file.  I had management jobs twice in my career, the second time for about 4 years at the end.  It was enough of a pay bump to get me across the FIRE finish a line a couple of years sooner than I otherwise would have.  But the added stress might have taken a couple of years off of my life. ;)

Here are a few things to think about:

You'll likely be working a lot more hours, and getting paid $0 for the extra time.  You can't bug out if your staff is still there plugging away on an urgent project, even if you came in earlier than they did and put some time in last weekend. 

Can you pull back from the nuts-and-bolts work and give your staff just enough guidance so that they can do it right?  It's tempting to just push them aside and do it yourself, but you can't do that, because it destroys their morale.  And you don't have time to do their work plus yours.

A good boss is an advocate for his/her staff who makes sure they have the resources to do their work, and also that they have support when they are in conflict with other staff groups or managers.  But you can't just be a blind advocate.  Sometimes your staff is just wrong, and you have to tell them that without crushing their morale and turning them against you.  Once they start to dislike working for you, the situation has turned dysfunctional, and it is very difficult to turn that around.  To please your boss, you ultimately have to do what's best for the company bottom line, which may or may not always be what your staff wants.  It's a tough balancing act.

One of the most important things you can do to support your staff is to make sure that their achievements are recognized and incentivized.  You'll need to make time for this, and you'll need to be willing to sell your boss on it.

You will spend a lot of time on performance plans, performance reviews, counseling staff, and making sure they have the training and resources that they need.  If you don't spend a lot of time on these things, you're doing something wrong.

How do feel about meetings, phone calls, e-mails, and text messages?  These tasks will fill your 8-to-5 hours, and any quiet time you need for focusing on other tasks likely will get pushed outside of the 8-to-5 time frame.

How do you feel about disciplining your former peers?  Sooner or later you're going to have to do it.

[kei te pai]

I think you have mentioned previously that you are a nurse. What is it about your work that gives you the most satisfaction and reward? If it is patient contact and relationship, then you may find the money is not sufficient compensation for sitting in an office.
On the other hand, if you enjoy the feeling of building a great team, and working together to deliver excellent care, then leadership/management may be a good fit.
What is the organisational structure like? Would you be sandwiched between your team and senior management?
I would put aside the financial aspects and reflect on what the two jobs actually entail.

[rothwem]

If you’re asking the question, you’re not ready.  You’ll know when it’s time for you to be a manager, and you’ll want the job.

[Freedomin5]

If you’re asking the question, you’re not ready.  You’ll know when it’s time for you to be a manager, and you’ll want the job.

This. It sounds like your decision-making is more driven by fear of getting a bad replacement boss than desire for managing people and leading the team. Also, do the other people on your team like you and have they told you that “you should totally apply for this job”? Because they already know you, if you don’t have their support already, it could lead to hard feelings, passive aggressiveness, and an unpleasant team environment if you get the job and are required to lead them. If you really want this job, I’m not saying don’t apply for it based on what other people think; I’m just saying don’t be blindsided, and you need to have a plan to deal with it.

[FIRE 20/20]

...
Well, it just came to my attention my boss plans to retire in twoish years. I believe I would be the best choice to replace her given my experience/current duties. So... now I have to decide if I want her position.
...

Given that she's planning to retire in "twoish" years, I wouldn't worry about it.  I don't mean you shouldn't think about it and plan for it, but I'd leave the worry and stress to later. 
I don't know how things work in the medical field, but in the kind of engineering I did a lot can change in 2 years.  You might have a kid, your boss might leave before then or decide to stay on longer, you might even decide to leave the company/city/state you're in now.  However, I think it would be very worthwhile to start to position yourself for the position.  Where I worked, leaders were always expected to have a transition plan.  If an internal candidate was identified who didn't currently have the required experience, we tried to teach them the responsibilities of the new role.  In most cases once they saw what was required (reading contracts, creating budgets and staffing plans, etc.) they often dropped out of that track.  The ones who stuck with it generally got the job when it opened up. 
My recommendation is to talk to your boss and express your interest.  Let her (or whoever) know that you'd like to start to train on some of her responsibilities, and position yourself for the transition.  You can always back out - even at the last minute.  But where I came from if you didn't get on their radar early then you lost your opportunity.  Showing interest in taking on more responsibility has the side benefit of helping at your performance review as well. 

[Morning Glory]

I know plenty of nurses who have done management then gone back to practice, usually because they no longer needed or wanted to work full time. I say go ahead and try it!

 That said, I am in a big giant teaching hospital that has open positions all the time. How hard would it be to get a staff position in another department if you didn't like management? 

[Buffaloski Boris]

If you’re asking the question, you’re not ready.  You’ll know when it’s time for you to be a manager, and you’ll want the job.

^^^This^^^

[Murse]

If you’re asking the question, you’re not ready.  You’ll know when it’s time for you to be a manager, and you’ll want the job.

This. It sounds like your decision-making is more driven by fear of getting a bad replacement boss than desire for managing people and leading the team. Also, do the other people on your team like you and have they told you that “you should totally apply for this job”? Because they already know you, if you don’t have their support already, it could lead to hard feelings, passive aggressiveness, and an unpleasant team environment if you get the job and are required to lead them. If you really want this job, I’m not saying don’t apply for it based on what other people think; I’m just saying don’t be blindsided, and you need to have a plan to deal with it.

I am 100% confident I could be manager. I am 100% confident I am the best fit for this position among my colleagues. The only coworker I have that I feel would also be good has made it very clear she does not want the responsibility.

 This is not a “idk if I am ready to be manager” question. This is a “I am not sure I want to make the lifestyle changes associated with being manager” with a side of “I am tempted to give up the option of changing to part time in exchange for more money and a more flexible full time work schedule” question.

Yes, I have been asked by numerous co-workers to take the position when it becomes available.

As for the concerns about being overworked, that is not a concern of mine. I am much more concerned about giving up my union for management then later being asked to take-over another work site.

The concern with not being able to go back to the floor is this- there are several worksites for the agency I work for, I like the work-site I am in and don’t want to change. My worksite is hard to get into due to it being a good workload compared to other sites. I would not consider this position at a different worksite. I also have heard through the rumor mill that a previous manager had asked to step down and was told no, although the managers that were there at that time are now gone.

[maisymouser]

The big unknown here is my wife currently makes between 40-50k per year and I have no idea how much if any my wife will work when we have kids.

OK, that is a really big unknown. If your wife doesn't work when you have kids and you want to drop down to part time, how do you plan to get health insurance? I wouldn't bank on anything with the current health care and political environment. Also, if you are making >100k right now, I suspect that the pressure for you to continue working full time in that role (or the manager role) will be a lot higher in the household.

I am not a manager, have never been one, and imagine that managing varies greatly between work fields. What I can say is this: Two years is not a short period of time, and I would not recommend banking on having the opportunity to get your current boss's job. I would also keep in mind that even one kid can be vastly different and more financially consuming than you plan on. With regards to not being 'allowed' to step down from a management role, only a stupid company would let someone talented and knowledgeable walk away completely if the alternative was allowing them to work part-time, even if it's a different role.

I'm a really financially conservative person and, if it were me, I would have a discussion with my spouse about needing to be in a better place financially before having kids if one or both people want to stop working full-time based on what you've said in the post. That is, if the goal truly is to FIRE in 10-12 years. That can always give a little bit too.

Last thing, I hope I'm using the right forum etiquette, but it seems like you're earning a whole lot already- more on your own than my spouse and I combined. It's surprising to me that your FIRE target is 10-12 years, are you in a HCOL area? Why the pressure to get to the 150k salary?

[Adam Zapple]

If you’re asking the question, you’re not ready.  You’ll know when it’s time for you to be a manager, and you’ll want the job.

I completely disagree.  Change is difficult.  I was once a reluctant potential manager (I work in emergency services-union job).  I didn't feel "ready" but I figured it out. In certain jobs, you are never "ready" because of the vast difference in roles between rank and file and managers.

To the OP, TAKE THE JOB.  Challenge yourself to do something that makes you uncomfortable.  Don't let some bozo take the job and box you out for years or decades.  Maybe I am just projecting myself onto your situation but all of your reasons for not taking the job sound like excuses.  I was doing the same thing 7 years ago but ended up taking the promotion anyway.  Glad I did.

[Murse]

The big unknown here is my wife currently makes between 40-50k per year and I have no idea how much if any my wife will work when we have kids.

OK, that is a really big unknown. If your wife doesn't work when you have kids and you want to drop down to part time, how do you plan to get health insurance? I wouldn't bank on anything with the current health care and political environment. Also, if you are making >100k right now, I suspect that the pressure for you to continue working full time in that role (or the manager role) will be a lot higher in the household.

I am not a manager, have never been one, and imagine that managing varies greatly between work fields. What I can say is this: Two years is not a short period of time, and I would not recommend banking on having the opportunity to get your current boss's job. I would also keep in mind that even one kid can be vastly different and more financially consuming than you plan on. With regards to not being 'allowed' to step down from a management role, only a stupid company would let someone talented and knowledgeable walk away completely if the alternative was allowing them to work part-time, even if it's a different role.

I'm a really financially conservative person and, if it were me, I would have a discussion with my spouse about needing to be in a better place financially before having kids if one or both people want to stop working full-time based on what you've said in the post. That is, if the goal truly is to FIRE in 10-12 years. That can always give a little bit too.

Last thing, I hope I'm using the right forum etiquette, but it seems like you're earning a whole lot already- more on your own than my spouse and I combined. It's surprising to me that your FIRE target is 10-12 years, are you in a HCOL area? Why the pressure to get to the 150k salary?

I will make 96k this year, i project I will make 106k next year and I project it to be 120kish May 2021 based on our current contract. It will then go up with inflation. My salary started at 70k 4 years ago and has climbed quickly. I live near Portland Oregon, high income tax state. We also rent right now. I expect to purchase a home, I also expect healtchcare costs to be fairly expensive. When I run my figures, I assume my wife won’t work at all once we have children, bringing down our SR.

So to sum up my answer, the projected FI date is so far out because I project our expenses (housing in particular) to go up and my wife’s income to go away. The projected FI date actually goes out to 23 years if I switched to part time in 2-3 years. But I think that trade is worth it.

If I switched to part time my health insurance would still be subsidized, although only half as much. I would still be under union protection, and I would be able to pick up extra shifts as needed. I would also expect my wife to work part time as well in some role if I worked part time and we have discussed this.

If I stay in my current role I will change to part time and make it work. The delemma I am facing is if I go into management I will obviously have to work full time but will have much more flexibility on when those hours are worked and make much more money.

I am not stressing over this decision, I am strictly trying to weigh the pros and cons and seeking feedback.

[former player]

So the management role is $30k a year more.  How much of that do you lose in taxes?

I liked the job I had as a senior technical adviser and the move to management would have meant work I didn't like and would be less good at for very little more pay, so I stayed where I was, with my pick of the interesting work and as much security and flexibility as anyone in the organisation.

[Murse]

So the management role is $30k a year more.  How much of that do you lose in taxes?

I liked the job I had as a senior technical adviser and the move to management would have meant work I didn't like and would be less good at for very little more pay, so I stayed where I was, with my pick of the interesting work and as much security and flexibility as anyone in the organisation.

At our current income levels we pay roughly 25% effective for taxes. So it would likely be 22.5kish more net/year. It is hard to project how this would change my SR due to all of the moving parts.

I guess their are two scenarios I am trying to compare
1- being a part time RN making roughly 55-60k per year having lots of time for family and interests but not a whole lot of money for extra things but able to work extra when it suits me to make more money. This is appealing to me because I would have a lot more time free to do with what I choose but I would estimate my FI date at 23 years out. This has been the exit strategy we have been set on for years.

2) working a 40 hour/week management job in which I would be making 150k/year. I would have the flexibility to come and go as I want as long as I work 36-44 hours/week. This is appealing to me because I would be making more then my wife and I currently make combined. This would allow her the flexibility to be a SAHM if she chose and we would still hit FI in 8-10 years. I do think I would be at high risk of OMY syndrome in this position though.

 I get pretty generous leave annually in either role if I am full time (over 6 weeks/year including sick leave.)