Moustachian Envy

[Asgard01]

Hey all,

I thought it might be interesting to see if I am alone in sometimes feeling some envy towards the progress/status of many on here. I must admit that in reading many posts on here at times I feel a sense of envy for those that have well over 100k salaries, make comments such that they are saving over 6k a month, are well over 1 million but are instead aiming for a 2-3% WR etc so need 2 million.

These comments make me look upon my own moustache bristles as belonging to a much lesser tier than many and from feeling positive about my progress, to feeling like it's just not good enough. I NEED to earn more, NEED to up my savings rate etc. I don't always feel like this at all and I am very pleased to hear others successes but there's no denying it sometimes makes me feel less happy with mine when there seems to be such a large gap in many cases. Maybe it's a little bit of trying to keep up with the moustachians hehe.

This echoes another forum post about whether there are other sites for people who simply are starting out with far less and are not on such high salaries. I however feel that there is the great effect of sharing a board with the equivalent top Olympic athletes of this whole FI business. It provides great motivation also :). I think too that there is also a broad spectrum of people here at different stages judging myself at the lower end perhaps.

Chris

[arebelspy]

"Comparison is the thief of joy." -Theodore Roosevelt

If you must compare, compare yourself with all the people out there with nothing, and don't even have the opportunity to save, and how lucky you are to be in your position, or to those who have the opportunity, yet squander it, and how far ahead of them you are.

[Asgard01]

Of course yes. I already know such things arebelspy :) especially with a long interest in Buddhism but even so I will gladly admit I still feel such things.

Modification:

Comparison can make you feel happy and often does as it will allow you to judge your success etc but part of me wouldn't want to as I'm sure you may agree. If I only feel happy because I am comparatively in a better state than others then In away I need others to be worse off than me to feel good which isn't something good in my opinion. I instead rather try to feel simply grateful for having such fortune but I also would wish it on others.

That doesn't stop me though sometimes feeling some envy however and was just curious if anyone else felt that way sometimes :p

[matchewed]

Then there is a disconnect between what you know and what you choose to focus on. Focus on the gratitude for what you have and the happiness for the fortune of others.

[Asgard01]

Then there is a disconnect between what you know and what you choose to focus on. Focus on the gratitude for what you have and the happiness for the fortune of others.

Knowing and then doing what I know I should do and try to do is my life's work. A work in progress ;)

[matchewed]

As it is for anyone. I think you already have your direction then. Comparing yourself to others is not a great thing. It can work in some ways but it also sets yourself up for an unrealistic standard. I personally view it as more bad than good for most people. Just my personal take on it.

[Asgard01]

Yep for sure. I do think though it's one of the most natural hard wired things we humans do and it can be very subtle - We feel in some way better than others because we don't compare ourselves with others, or we feel great about ourselves for getting rid of ego etc. Either way, our sense of self is made to feel good for some kind of achievement.

I try to compare myself to myself without being too hard on my self, hehe.

[deborah]

One thing I really like about mustashianism is that people are on a reasonably level playing field.

People with low incomes who still save, are just as well off as the people with high incomes who save the same percentage of their income. It's the percentage you save that's important, not how much.

People who have high incomes seem to have a more difficult time being frugal - I have to send my kids to private school, be a member of the country club, have cleaning/housekeeping/maid, my house costs a lot of money in upkeep, I need a gardener... EVERY time we get someone with a really high income, they come out with a similar set of ridiculous excuses.

People with high incomes often also have an investment problem - they may have a lot of investment properties, with huge mortgages, and so have almost no equity in any of them, or be highly leveraged in shares.

My nieces love going to the beaches near where they live. I love going to all the forests that surround where I live. Many, if not most, of the enjoyable thing in life are free, and mustashians love doing these things, rather than wasting money on more expensive (and maybe just as good) things.

It is easy to be envious of others. I could be envious that other people understood FI and ER much earlier than me. I was FI for many years before I realised what that could mean. Consequently, I worked for longer, in some situations that were pretty grim. However, I have done a lot of things in my life (even when it was at its grimmest) that I look back on and am happy that I did. I may not have done those thing if I was retired. I would be a different person. I think I am happiest as I am.

[Basenji]

I've been thinking about this for a bit. My answer is we can all be envious of something and if we are, we're basically missing the point of our present moment, our life. Objectively I am a person with a very good financial situation, no doubt about it, but I see younger people here and I feel a twinge for my younger self, who could have been more frugal. Or I read about people who have great experience and skills fixing things and DIYing, and I wish perhaps I had learned more of those skills. But none of us really know the lives and struggles of others in totality, not our own family, and certainly not those of strangers on a website forum. All we have is our own life. What we share here is the idea of freedom. Maybe a twinge of envy will be a kick in the ass to learn some skills (for me), or maybe a twinge will set someone off to apply for a better-paying job. Or, most likely, it's just a momentary human twinge that passes, and we get back to our work towards FI. In any case, you aren't alone. We all share something here, it may not be income level or age or skills, but we're all here together.

[forummm]

Everyone is on their own journey. A lot of people on here already have several million dollars and are retired. But they're also older than me and I probably prefer the path that I've been going down compared to what they've done and what they have in front of them. You need to make your own way. And, by definition, not everyone can be better than everyone else. We all are lagging Gates and Buffett.

You need to just look at your own life and decide where to take it. Get inspiration from others here if that's helpful. But you're probably in the global top 50% (or maybe even top 90%) if you have a positive NW. So it's all relative.

[wordnerd]

Sometimes I remind myself how great it is not to be the smartest person in the room. It means I can learn a lot. Maybe a similar logic applies here?

But, really, a lot of it is time and life choices. You're on a good road, and the successful people here are a preview of how your work will pay off.

[okits]

I do sometimes have to consciously remind myself not to feel bad when I read about big incomes and stashes on here. I remind myself that it's a vain and shallow thing to judge one's work's worth solely by dollar value, and that burn rate matters more than stash size.  And I try to remember to appreciate what I do have. Count your blessings, as they say!

[forummm]

According to http://www.globalrichlist.com/wealth NW of $500 (the lowest it would accept) puts you at about 24% and of $1000 at 31%. You need $85k to be top 10%, 800k to be top 1%, and $4M to be top 0.1%.

A NW of $4k means you're richer than most people in the world.

[nobodyspecial]

Read http://earlyretirementextreme.com - he started from a $40K postdoc salary and retired living on $5k/year

ps. A bunch of people on the site factoring in $1K/month medical insurance payments probably think you are very lucky being in the UK.

[FIRE me]

Hey all,

I thought it might be interesting to see if I am alone in sometimes feeling some envy towards the progress/status of many on here. I must admit that in reading many posts on here at times I feel a sense of envy for those that have well over 100k salaries, make comments such that they are saving over 6k a month, are well over 1 million but are instead aiming for a 2-3% WR etc so need 2 million.

These comments make me look upon my own moustache bristles as belonging to a much lesser tier than many and from feeling positive about my progress, to feeling like it's just not good enough.

I'm older than average here and making less than average here, with a net worth that is smaller than average here. But definitely, not the oldest, not making the least, and not the smallest net worth.

The phrase that I think fits best is “More than some, less than others”.

About envy, sure I'd like a wage above 100k, and sure I'd like to be worth millions. Mild to moderate “I'd like to be like them envy”, yes. Green and ugly “I wish it was me instead of them envy”, not even close.

I'm doing much better than most of my neighbors, peers, and co-workers. I'm proud of my work, successful planning, and accomplishments. I see no need to feel bad because others have more than I do.

[obstinate]

One thing that might be helpful to think about.

• Don't: measure your progress in terms of absolute wealth saved so far.
• Do: measure your progress in terms of the development of the systems you have put in place to make progress.

If you have already done everything you can do to put yourself on the right path, I think that's worth celebrating. In fact, it's a lot more worth celebrating than lucking into the right major and the right job in college (not to mention lucking into the circumstances that made it possible for you to get to college). That's how I measure my own progress -- not in terms of money saved but in terms of completeness of personal transformation.

Don't get me wrong, I expect some amount of envy is inevitable, as we humans are wont to feel for people who are better off than we are. I'm pretty rich, but would I like to be making as much as my even richer friends? FI in one year instead of four? You bet. But is that the stick by which I measure myself? No.

[Asgard01]

Thanks everyone for your replies thus far. I just wanted to be very open with those feelings that sometimes exist within me, my gut feeling is that many also have these at times too albeit to differing degrees with perhaps some being subtle and not so obvious. We are human after all.

@basenji

  Or, most likely, it's just a momentary human twinge that passes, and we get back to our work towards FI. In any case, you aren't alone. We all share something here, it may not be income level or age or skills, but we're all here together.

This sums it up for me yes, we are share a lot in common with our quest for FI.

@obstinate

Don't: measure your progress in terms of absolute wealth saved so far.
Do: measure your progress in terms of the development of the systems you have put in place to make progress.

I have heard something similar before yes. Works I think because it's less likely to be compared with others and isn't so extrinsic and perhaps is more controllable.

@forummmm

You need to just look at your own life and decide where to take it. Get inspiration from others here if that's helpful. But you're probably in the global top 50% (or maybe even top 90%) if you have a positive NW. So it's all relative.

I am in the top 3.53% according to that, I must admit though as said in the earlier post. I feel somewhat bad for needing there to be over 90% below me to feel good about myself. This is where a lot of cognitive dissonance comes in. I must admit that it makes me feel good about progress/situation when I see statistics about how the savings rate average is so low, pay cheque to pay cheque is the norm etc.

I am trying to balance the idea of contentment and desire/aspiration. Wanting without suffering due to not being in a set of circumstances that I deem to be better.  I think when I see such differences on here, I get the twinge of envy and think that I am not there yet, I am not at such and such amount. It's managing this gap and perhaps wanting it to close with aspiration without effecting the quality of life in the here and now.

[forummm]

Read http://earlyretirementextreme.com - he started from a $40K postdoc salary and retired living on $5k/year

ps. A bunch of people on the site factoring in $1K/month medical insurance payments probably think you are very lucky being in the UK.

Jakob actually spent about $7k/year, and his wife spends about the same for herself on top of that. Somewhat similar to MMM spending about $25k/year for their family of 3.

@forummmm

You need to just look at your own life and decide where to take it. Get inspiration from others here if that's helpful. But you're probably in the global top 50% (or maybe even top 90%) if you have a positive NW. So it's all relative.

I am in the top 3.53% according to that, I must admit though as said in the earlier post. I feel somewhat bad for needing there to be over 90% below me to feel good about myself. This is where a lot of cognitive dissonance comes in. I must admit that it makes me feel good about progress/situation when I see statistics about how the savings rate average is so low, pay cheque to pay cheque is the norm etc.

I am trying to balance the idea of contentment and desire/aspiration. Wanting without suffering due to not being in a set of circumstances that I deem to be better.  I think when I see such differences on here, I get the twinge of envy and think that I am not there yet, I am not at such and such amount. It's managing this gap and perhaps wanting it to close with aspiration without effecting the quality of life in the here and now.

Well, then you're already rich and could live like a king in many parts of the world. And if you spend a few more years saving, you can probably get to the top 1%. So if the scoreboard matters to you, you are the envy of nearly all of the world's 7 billion people.

But a scoreboard is just a number. What's important is how you feel about yourself inside. Only you can control that.

[Seppia]

To me it's more the slight anger towards myself when I realize how much time I wasted.
I was never a big spender but looking around me I thought  that saving 15-20% was already great, and that the level I've had since coming to the states (around 35-40% depending on bonuses) was borderline insane.
Now I've been saving closer to 50-55% for three months and feel no difference in the quality of life (I actually feel better because I think I'm planning for a safer future).
Then I did the math of what difference it would have made if I saved 10-15% more for my past 11 years (my working career) and got slightly depressed for a moment lol

[BTDretire]

Hey all,

I thought it might be interesting to see if I am alone in sometimes feeling some envy towards the progress/status of many on here. I must admit that in reading many posts on here at times I feel a sense of envy for those that have well over 100k salaries, make comments such that they are saving over 6k a month, are well over 1 million but are instead aiming for a 2-3% WR etc so need 2 million.

That just about fits my wife and I, but we are older and 34 years into saving.
 I'm sure there are plenty on here that make less than $100k, I'm one.
I just did a calc and see we have averaged $42k together over 33 years.
Lots of years with only $15k to $20K income.
I'm probably in a different catagory in that I'm late to the MMM blog.
I didn't find it until I was 60 yrs old. However my wife and I lived near mustachian lives
before finding MMM and have saved and invested in Vangaurd since around 1990.
Look at it this way, no matter how long it takes, you will be better of with a nestegg than without.
 

I NEED to earn more, NEED to up my savings rate etc.
This echoes another forum post about whether there are other sites for people who simply are starting out with far less and are not on such high salaries.
Chris

  If that motivates you to do those things, Great!
"Just keep plugging away
"Over 65% of American adults have a net worth under $100,000.
"The majority of Americans may be financially and economically illiterate. 
Many have nothing, and likely will never have anything.
Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/article/americans-have-relatively-poor-net-wealth-cm257517#ixzz3hfHn0F00
So looking at it another way, your ahead of 65% of Americans.

[MrsPete]

I see that you're only 28.  In your early years, it seems like the savings build up so slowly -- but that'll change.  Give yourself time. 

[Asgard01]

To me it's more the slight anger towards myself when I realize how much time I wasted.
I was never a big spender but looking around me I thought  that saving 15-20% was already great, and that the level I've had since coming to the states (around 35-40% depending on bonuses) was borderline insane.
Now I've been saving closer to 50-55% for three months and feel no difference in the quality of life (I actually feel better because I think I'm planning for a safer future).
Then I did the math of what difference it would have made if I saved 10-15% more for my past 11 years (my working career) and got slightly depressed for a moment lol

I can understand that. I started 15 months ago at age 27 but I have had a jump start with a family tragedy which of course I'd rather have not had but I feel grateful that some have the same tragedy but also with money problems on top so I have been fortunate in one sense.

I tend to feel like I am missing savings 100s extra each month if only I could get a more higher paying job. I think the higher salaries on here sometimes therefore remind me that I still haven't got that better paying job hehe. This doesn't overwhelm me or last for too long but it's definitely there. I can just as easily think that 2 years ago I didn't even think for a single moment that I could retire before normal retirement age. It just never crossed my mind. I would have considered 55 to be early.

@mrspete

Yes I have the time still ahead to increase my salary and to continue to ramp up savings.

[Kansas Beachbum]

It's all relative, Chris.  I'm guessing some of us are a lot older than you, or maybe figured out the whole MMM ethos a bit sooner, but the fact that you're here, that you're doing everything you can, indicates you most certainly belong.  And I assure you at some point in the future you will be one of the ones writing the posts about passing some stache threshold.

[nobodyspecial]

Yes I have the time still ahead to increase my salary and to continue to ramp up savings.

Early savings are potentially worth more than salary rises.
Any money you invest today has decades to grow at 8% even after you retire ( 8% = doubling every 9years)

Getting a 10% pay rise means you have 10% more to save, assuming your tax doesn't go up,  but definitely don't put off saving until you have that well paid job.

[cheapbutchic]

Asgard - I can relate.  I love reading here for inspiration but sometimes I do feel envy too.  Thankfully it passes but I know what you mean.

[BicycleB]

Asgard01,

I think you said something that probably a lot of us feel at some point.  I have sometimes too. 

FWIW, I saw another comment like this elsewhere:  "Compare yourself only to your past self."

Best of luck!

[10dollarsatatime]

Mine is not so much envy of the 'staches, so much as envy of the better choices these people made early in life. 

I got a degree in THEATER!  There are few more useless degrees.  I did manage to get one of the few jobs in my area where I can actually use it... And I can freelance to earn more.  And I'm having a good time doing it.  But if I'm honest?  Most of what I'm doing now has not much to do with what I learned in college.

Now I kick myself for not putting my love of math to work.  Finance?  Engineering? Scads of things that would have moved me down the road to FIRE much faster than I'm heading now.  But a huge lack of ambition and direction just out of high school meant that I went for the fun degree.

[NaturallyHappier]

I think that anybody that has discovered Mustachienism at 28 is in a far better position than I am at 49 with a high paying job, approx. 2 Million net worth for myself and my wife... still trying to get to a point where we both can FIRE.  You have the great advantage over us because you have discovered how to live a simple life on less and save at an early age.  It is almost a guarantee that you will do better than we did financially and will live a happy life.

We have nothing for you to envy.  I envy you.

[Bateaux]

I think that anybody that has discovered Mustachienism at 28 is in a far better position than I am at 49 with a high paying job, approx. 2 Million net worth for myself and my wife... still trying to get to a point where we both can FIRE.  You have the great advantage over us because you have discovered how to live a simple life on less and save at an early age.  It is almost a guarantee that you will do better than we did financially and will live a happy life.

We have nothing for you to envy.  I envy you.

So agree with this post.  I'm 47 we have over a million saved and good income as well.  However I'd trade being 28 again with the knowledge I have now in a heartbeat.

[amyable]

I think that anybody that has discovered Mustachienism at 28 is in a far better position than I am at 49 with a high paying job, approx. 2 Million net worth for myself and my wife... still trying to get to a point where we both can FIRE.  You have the great advantage over us because you have discovered how to live a simple life on less and save at an early age.  It is almost a guarantee that you will do better than we did financially and will live a happy life.

We have nothing for you to envy.  I envy you.

So agree with this post.  I'm 47 we have over a million saved and good income as well.  However I'd trade being 28 again with the knowledge I have now in a heartbeat.

Wow--I'm 30, just finished off paying my student loans, and this totally shifted my perspective today.  Thanks!

[Asgard01]

@dobedo

OP, you're very lucky to discover MMM at the young age of 28.  There are many 38/48/58/68 year olds who are only now learning about the concept and math of early retirement. 

You should remember that many (not all) of the folks making those big salaries are also dealing with a lot of stress and longer hours than are associated with lower salary positions.  So don't think of yourself as behind those who make big salaries and save more... think of yourself as ahead because you can enjoy the present moment more, with less stress.   Life does not begin when you're FI... the stuff that comes before it counts, too. 

I'm thinking that some of the rich old folks on here would happily trade their entire portfolio for the chance to be 28 again, even if it meant starting from $0.  The thing about being 28 is that you don't know what it means until you're older than 28. Youth is wasted on the young.

That's very true. I have always agreed especially that life does not begin when you FI. I Feel old at 28 hehe but no I do appreciate youth just not as much as I should.

@kansas beachbum

It's all relative, Chris.  I'm guessing some of us are a lot older than you, or maybe figured out the whole MMM ethos a bit sooner, but the fact that you're here, that you're doing everything you can, indicates you most certainly belong.  And I assure you at some point in the future you will be one of the ones writing the posts about passing some stache threshold.

Thanks. I do feel that I belong to this group of Moustachians yes, I have implemented many things as recommended and feel great in the process thereof.

@bicycleb

Asgard01,

I think you said something that probably a lot of us feel at some point.  I have sometimes too. 

FWIW, I saw another comment like this elsewhere:  "Compare yourself only to your past self."

Best of luck!

I do try to do that but like many, I can be overly harsh on myself.

@naturallyhappier

I think that anybody that has discovered Mustachienism at 28 is in a far better position than I am at 49 with a high paying job, approx. 2 Million net worth for myself and my wife... still trying to get to a point where we both can FIRE.  You have the great advantage over us because you have discovered how to live a simple life on less and save at an early age.  It is almost a guarantee that you will do better than we did financially and will live a happy life.

We have nothing for you to envy.  I envy you.

Interesting, I didn't expect that but I understand your point. I do feel grateful for finding about this whole FI  thing when I did. Like I said earlier, it amazes me that being FI never really crossed my mind other than thinking get rich quick was a scam and not really considering get rich slowly as a reality.

@nobodyspecial

Quote from: Asgard01 on August 02, 2015, 09:59:31 AM
Yes I have the time still ahead to increase my salary and to continue to ramp up savings.
Early savings are potentially worth more than salary rises.
Any money you invest today has decades to grow at 8% even after you retire ( 8% = doubling every 9years)

Getting a 10% pay rise means you have 10% more to save, assuming your tax doesn't go up,  but definitely don't put off saving until you have that well paid job.

I feel I have reached the max percentage of saving with my current salary without starting to feel deprived and with it effecting my current day to day living. Anything extra would only go to savings and hence why I really want that raise to increase monthly investments :).

Thanks again for all your comments so far, I have enjoyed reading them.

Chris

[Guesl982374]

I feel I have reached the max percentage of saving with my current salary without starting to feel deprived and with it effecting my current day to day living. Anything extra would only go to savings and hence why I really want that raise to increase monthly investments :).

Thanks again for all your comments so far, I have enjoyed reading them.

Chris

Chris - Sounds like you have turned your "envy" into a path forward: increase your income / keep saving. Pick a skill/field that fits you reasonably well and pays well and work towards improvement. You would be shocked how much money is out there to be made. Most personal finance sites focus more heavily on being frugal (ERE, MMM, The Simple Dollar, etc), so focus on increasing your income (Financial Samurai). Do both. It sounds like you've cut as far as you want to go, now focus on increasing that top line income as much as you want.

[Meowkins]

If you have already done everything you can do to put yourself on the right path, I think that's worth celebrating. In fact, it's a lot more worth celebrating than lucking into the right major and the right job in college (not to mention lucking into the circumstances that made it possible for you to get to college). That's how I measure my own progress -- not in terms of money saved but in terms of completeness of personal transformation.

This is incredibly well stated. Thanks for the afternoon inspiration!

[Playing with Fire UK]

Hey Asgard01,

I am also filled with ugly jealousy when I read about the progress on these boards. I try to consol myself that the fact that I am jealous rather than filled with complainypants 'Watdyamean I can't have the new iPhone and a new truck?!?!' means that I have seen the light and am on the right path.

I also think about whether I would truly want to do other people's jobs even for other people's money. Often I find I am envious of the paycheck but wouldn't put in the hours, or envious of the stache but haven't made the same decisions.

I'm also lucky that I've found a space where I can learn from these awesome folks, who are so generous with their time and tales. That has probably cut a decade off my working career in itself.

You are not alone.

[AM43]

Hey Asgard01,

I am also filled with ugly jealousy when I read about the progress on these boards. I try to consol myself that the fact that I am jealous rather than filled with complainypants 'Watdyamean I can't have the new iPhone and a new truck?!?!' means that I have seen the light and am on the right path.

I also think about whether I would truly want to do other people's jobs even for other people's money. Often I find I am envious of the paycheck but wouldn't put in the hours, or envious of the stache but haven't made the same decisions.

I'm also lucky that I've found a space where I can learn from these awesome folks, who are so generous with their time and tales. That has probably cut a decade off my working career in itself.

You are not alone.

Well said my friend.
I am in my early 40s with combined family income of 6 figures and stash of 7 figures.
I see and feel envy from people all around me and most know how hard we work and save, but I can guarantee you that none would want to put an effort or sacrifice as much as we do to achieve our status.
So keep learning, work hard, save and don’t make stupid decisions that will come back to bite you.

[Jon_Snow]

I get the sense that some might feel a bit of envy when they read my post-FIRE Journal. I understand.

In my 10 year journey to FIRE I felt a ton of envy reading about those who had FIRE'd before me. I managed to forge these feelings of envy into a powerful motivational tool which really helped me develop a laser-like focus on THE PRIZE.

[Playing with Fire UK]

You make a good point Jon, I want to hear more about people's post-FIRE tales, it's motivating and I get some great ideas. My envy is my problem/blessing/tool, I'd hate for any one to hold back a good story just because I'm not there yet!

[dude]

As a Fed (FERS) employee, I hear a fair amount of grumbling about my pension from some people.  Google "pension envy" and you will find hundreds of hits on the topic.  It became more of an issue after the 2008 crash, when lots of people who never would have considered working for government because it doesn't pay enough/not enough perks, etc., turned a hateful eye toward public sector employees.  The typical refrain is "we don't have pensions, and neither should you!" Which I find terribly sad, because my sentiment is the opposite -- damn, I wish everybody had a pension like mine.  I understand the issues with some public sector pensions, particularly state and municipal pensions, which are fraught with abuse and are bankrupting some governments (though largely their own goddamn fault because they didn't live up to their end of the bargain by contributing to the pension funds over the years, choosing instead to divert the money to pet projects and such), but the FERS pension isn't really all that crazy generous (it's about 1% for each year of service, so for example, a 35-year employee goes with 35% of her high-3 average (which does NOT include premium pay/OT)).  Anyway, I think this recent viral post regarding the $15 minimum wage is apropos:

https://www.distractify.com/share-the-wealth-1279867405.html

[nobodyspecial]

I had a FED type pension and I'm equally unhappy about having one!

I was a very junior researcher in a "years of service type times final salary" government pension.
Except I was only going to be in the job for a few years and earning post-doc (minimum wage) salary - so 40years later it would be pocket change.
But because it used up all my pension contribution room, I couldn't put any of my salary into a retirement saving account which would have been much more valuable at the start of my career.

[takeahike]

Yes.. yes of course. I'm human.

I'm not envious in a way that I wish those people didn't have this progress above my own.  I'm envious in that they figured this out at a younger age. I'm mid 40's and started my nursing career when I was 40! If I had been enlightened at a much earlier age, I'd probably not bothered to become a nurse.. I mean.. I made zero money while in nursing school those 4 years from age 36 to 40.  I was programmed that to survive, I must have a career, which I was unable to have at an earlier age for various reasons.. and finally was able to accomplish that... and now I'm finding out that maybe I should have just worked hard and been frugal all along instead. I thought I was being frugal.. but really I was just really good at not living above my means.. and keeping to a budget that matched my income. I had no clue really about living far below my means to achieve mega savings. This is what I'm envious about. I wish I'd had this knowledge 20 years ago. :) But, at least my kids will have that information, and I've got a "career" that does bring me satisfaction and stability.. gives back.. makes me feel valued/needed. 

[broketriathlete]

I think that anybody that has discovered Mustachienism at 28 is in a far better position than I am at 49 with a high paying job, approx. 2 Million net worth for myself and my wife... still trying to get to a point where we both can FIRE.  You have the great advantage over us because you have discovered how to live a simple life on less and save at an early age.  It is almost a guarantee that you will do better than we did financially and will live a happy life.

We have nothing for you to envy.  I envy you.

So agree with this post.  I'm 47 we have over a million saved and good income as well.  However I'd trade being 28 again with the knowledge I have now in a heartbeat.

Wow--I'm 30, just finished off paying my student loans, and this totally shifted my perspective today.  Thanks!

Same here. I'm 31 and have set a goal to finish my loans by next year. I wish I found this coming out of college, but better late than never!!!

[Tetsuya Hondo]

At 28, I had a net worth around MINUS $70k.

I envy you!

Feel better now?

[ingrownstudentloans]

According to http://www.globalrichlist.com/wealth NW of $500 (the lowest it would accept) puts you at about 24% and of $1000 at 31%. You need $85k to be top 10%, 800k to be top 1%, and $4M to be top 0.1%.

A NW of $4k means you're richer than most people in the world.

And even some of us on the board - those with crippling student loans (not a woe is me, just a fact) start from very far back and only some of those get jobs that let them get to a zero NW within a decade or so.  I am 4 years post graduation (law school) started with a negative $120k and am hoping to get to a $0 NW  next month.  Maybe a few months after that I can finally be richer than most people in the world :) 

Those on this board that have succeeded often (deservedly so) announce their achievements and act as beacons of hope for others.  (speaking of which double congrats arebelspy on the retirement and the little one on the way).  Those of us that are still plugging or just starting out don't necessarily have much to announce with pride, so we aren't as vocal.

[Asgard01]

At 28, I had a net worth around MINUS $70k.

I envy you!

Feel better now?

I don't like the idea that I need to be better and have achieved more than others to be happy. I think I just feel at times that my progress is lacking when I see others figures and savings rates etc.

[Milizard]

I hear ya.  It pisses me off that 15 years into my post grad career only got me up to a $40,800 salary, when others start out at more than that upon graduation.  Top it off with the young 20-somethings making more than 6 figures,  because they're good at one niche--programming, and acting like it's no big deal to make that much.


I think there should be a "peach fuzz" section for folks just starting out, still having negative net worth &/or making smaller salaries.

[Quinn]

At 28, I had a net worth around MINUS $70k.

I envy you!

Feel better now?

I don't like the idea that I need to be better and have achieved more than others to be happy. I think I just feel at times that my progress is lacking when I see others figures and savings rates etc.

Like many others have mentioned, you should only compare your current self with your past self. Celebrate each little bit of progress. It's not a competition. Different strokes for different folks. We'll all get there eventually, no matter which path we took.

[Asgard01]

At 28, I had a net worth around MINUS $70k.

I envy you!

Feel better now?

I don't like the idea that I need to be better and have achieved more than others to be happy. I think I just feel at times that my progress is lacking when I see others figures and savings rates etc.

Like many others have mentioned, you should only compare your current self with your past self. Celebrate each little bit of progress. It's not a competition. Different strokes for different folks. We'll all get there eventually, no matter which path we took.

Yes I know, but as said earlier also. This is often times easier said than done. We often compare ourselves with others to judge our selves progress / status etc to help gage what can be viewed as good and bad progress etc. We also often times do it in very subtle ways without realising. I only say this to make it clear that this is fairly automatic and normal for most of us. I am forever trying to grow in this area myself. My life's work.

Chris

[Asgard01]

Hey all,

I thought it might be interesting to see if I am alone in sometimes feeling some envy towards the progress/status of many on here. I must admit that in reading many posts on here at times I feel a sense of envy for those that have well over 100k salaries, make comments such that they are saving over 6k a month, are well over 1 million but are instead aiming for a 2-3% WR etc so need 2 million.

 

I have never felt any envy for the high earners/savers here because basically they are still working all day while I, who earned and saved much less than they did, am on the beach playing volleyball all day. Sometimes I actually feel sorry for them in that they feel a strong need to have "more" when I have found a great deal of satisfaction in life on less.

ETA: Was talking specificly about high earners/savers and not about people in deep debt from SL or others reasons. I assumed those people would not be high savers at all while they worked to pay down debts.

It's not envy of them having more money or more things for those things alone. I have simplified my life materially and in a time sense and have felt great benefits too. It would be more about having a greater stash, higher salary as bringing about FI quicker and that alone. That's not in a sense of wanting to be better than them, just wanting to achieve more success at the FI pursuit which level I'm gaging from some of those on here who are getting there much quicker. It reminds me I can still do more.

Chris

[FiguringItOut]

I will be 40 next week and my net worth by the end of 2015 will be around $170K, may be a little more.  I feel like it's nothing. I am starting now, basically from scratch, to build some sort of retirement and FI for myself.  I also have two teens that will be going to college in 5 and 7 years, I don't have my own place to live (this goes to own vs rent debate, but that's a whole different topic).

Yes, I am envious of others, but I also find it motivational.  I know why I am where I am financially and I have nobody to blame but myself and stupid young love.  But alas, I can only move forward from this point on. 

[Valencia de Valera]

I often feel envious of people who have large salaries/staches are able to retire in their early 30s, but it's because of all the time they have to do what they want, and that I'm kicking myself for the early choices I made (or didn't make) that have led me to have a low salary. DH and I are currently on track to reach FIRE in about 11 years, assuming no pay increases which hopefully will not be the case.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately and part of my problem is that I can't imagine myself being 40 or 60 or 80 and still out enjoying life. My mom died of cancer when she was 39 and I think in the back of my mind I'm not expecting to live any longer than that either. This is a big part of why the idea of FIRE appeals so much to me and also why 11 years doesn't seem soon enough. I need to work on enjoying the time that I have now instead of thinking that life starts after FIRE.