Money for nothing (from the government)

[FireLane]

I got a mysterious letter today. It was addressed to my son, who's 6 years old.

There was a debit card inside, with a letter titled "Here Is Your New Benefit Identification Card!"

Beneath that headline was a page of cryptic bureaucratese about how this card can be used for Medicaid, Temporary Assistance and SNAP and should be carried at all times and presented together with ID when receiving benefits, etc., etc.

I had no idea what this was. At first, I was anxious that either someone had stolen my son's identity and applied for benefits in his name, or he had somehow been accidentally enrolled in a welfare program we didn't qualify for and weren't supposed to get.

After reading the letter several times and doing some Googling, I figured it out. The card is for a federal program called P-EBT that was established during the pandemic. Basically, if a student is eligible for free meals at school, but couldn't receive those meals because schools were closed or remote due to COVID, the government is reimbursing families for money they spent on food during that time.

All New York City public school students are eligible for free lunch, so Little FL qualifies. The government rarely moves quickly, so they're just now distributing the funds that were allocated for the 2021-22 school year.

After setting up an online account and activating the card, I found out that there's $400 on it. That covers most of my grocery spending for a month!

Obviously, I don't need the money. I'm a FIREd multimillionaire. I'd give it away if I could, but the letter specifically says you can't do that. It says that P-EBT benefits can't be donated or transferred, and if you don't want them, just cut up the card and throw it away.

This presents me with a dilemma. I don't know if this program draws from a fixed pool of money or not. If so, I don't want to take it away from people who need it more than I do.

On the other hand, I don't think it's wrong to accept a benefit you're eligible for under the terms of the law. I wouldn't turn down Social Security or Medicare, so why turn down this one? I didn't even have to apply - they sent it to me automatically.

I'm leaning toward using the card, and maybe making an equal-size donation to a food bank from my donor-advised fund. What do you folks think?

[Omy]

That's what I did with our covid funds. We didn't "need" the $6k so I stepped up contributions to World Central Kitchen and to our local food bank.

[lhamo]

I like your idea.

My daughter got P-EBT benefits as well.  I've been using them to buy things like fancy cheese at Grocery Outlet.

[curious_george]

Yep - I got these also.

First I freaked out, then did a bunch of research, then spent tons of time debating the ethics of using the money in my head, then did extensive analysis to try and understand who I was hurting if I took the money, where the money was coming from, what bill, the context of the bill, then talked with several trusted people about what I should do...

Then I spent the money on our normal groceries and felt incredibly guilty afterwards.

I'm thinking about spending the money I saved on those groceries on therapy to talk about all the different feelings I had during this whole process.

[ixtap]

Your solution is exactly the one I was going to suggest.

[FireLane]

Yep - I got these also.

First I freaked out, then did a bunch of research, then spent tons of time debating the ethics of using the money in my head, then did extensive analysis to try and understand who I was hurting if I took the money, where the money was coming from, what bill, the context of the bill, then talked with several trusted people about what I should do...

Then I spent the money on our normal groceries and felt incredibly guilty afterwards.

I'm thinking about spending the money I saved on those groceries on therapy to talk about all the different feelings I had during this whole process.

I don't think anyone gets to financial independence without being at least a little bit of an overthinker, so you're in good company there.

[Sibley]

I audit government entities, primarily school districts now. I assure you - spending that $400 or not is going to have ZERO impact. No one else will go without if you spend it. If you don't spend it, it's not going to get reallocated to someone who needs it more.

If it makes you feel better, make a $400 donation to the food bank, and based on a quick google search it looks like this one is the big one that supplies all the other food banks. https://www.foodbanknyc.org/

Or give it to your local animal shelter. They're struggling right now - the cost of pet food is up, and they're likely seeing fewer adoptions and increased intakes.

[jim555]

You paid your taxes to pay for that card, enjoy it.

[Ron Scott]

Obviously, I don't need the money. I'm a FIREd multimillionaire.

Dear Mr. Lane,

Thank you for pointing out that the funds provided to you are not needed, and that you are considering an in-kind charitable contribution. This is laudable.

Given your financial status, I also want to thank you, on behalf of the entire US government, for your tax payments over the years. These payments have gone far in helping our country defend itself, and provide for the well-being of our citizens.

We rarely thank individuals for their tax payments and that is a fault of the government. We take your money, completely waste about a third of it on inefficiencies and graft, and spend too much of the rest on programs designed by special interests. Given the research you did for your post, you are obviously aware the government has no idea how to direct funds to people who really need it. We just keep a shotgun in the corner for programs like this. Amazing isn’t it?

You deserve better.

Yours truly,

Daniel Werfel
IRS Commissioner


cc: J. Biden, K. McCarthy, j. Roberts, C. Schumer

[jim555]

I always apply for anything I qualify for.  Medicaid, been locked in due to the pandemic, that gets $40 off my electric bill, a free cell phone, and ACP free Internet.  Next month I will lose Medicaid, the phone and the electric discount.  Once I turn 60 I am "elderly" so SNAP (with income under $29K 200% FPL) will give me $23 a month and I get the $40 electric bill discount again, and the cell phone comes back, ACP Internet never left (<200% FPL).  NYS has free health plans for <200% FPL.  Life is good on the low road.

[FireLane]

I audit government entities, primarily school districts now. I assure you - spending that $400 or not is going to have ZERO impact. No one else will go without if you spend it. If you don't spend it, it's not going to get reallocated to someone who needs it more.

Thanks very much! This is what I wanted to know. I'd be happy to give this money to someone who needed it more if I could, but I'm not going to turn it down if it will just go back to the treasury otherwise.

[Dollar Slice]

If it makes you feel better, make a $400 donation to the food bank, and based on a quick google search it looks like this one is the big one that supplies all the other food banks. https://www.foodbanknyc.org/

Please do consider a donation to them, I live near their "community kitchen" in Harlem where they do a food pantry/soup kitchen/other services and there is a long line down the block multiple times a week waiting for them to open. They could use the resources. I am not a multimillionaire, nor is the government giving me free money for no reason, but I still donate a little money to them every month.

[scottish]

The food bank will make better use of the $400 than the government...

[wageslave23]

Obviously, I don't need the money. I'm a FIREd multimillionaire.

Dear Mr. Lane,

Thank you for pointing out that the funds provided to you are not needed, and that you are considering an in-kind charitable contribution. This is laudable.

Given your financial status, I also want to thank you, on behalf of the entire US government, for your tax payments over the years. These payments have gone far in helping our country defend itself, and provide for the well-being of our citizens.

We rarely thank individuals for their tax payments and that is a fault of the government. We take your money, completely waste about a third of it on inefficiencies and graft, and spend too much of the rest on programs designed by special interests. Given the research you did for your post, you are obviously aware the government has no idea how to direct funds to people who really need it. We just keep a shotgun in the corner for programs like this. Amazing isn’t it?

You deserve better.

Yours truly,

Daniel Werfel
IRS Commissioner


cc: J. Biden, K. McCarthy, j. Roberts, C. Schumer

+1

[charis]

I see this a little differently. There's a stigma about food stamps/snap benefits. But the money is for your child, regardless how it's being distributed.  Make a donation if you need some way to deal with your guilt. I would use the $ at the local farmers market, which accepts snap, to help out local vendors/farmers and make a donation to my child's education fund with the money I saved on groceries.

[jinga nation]

Obviously, I don't need the money. I'm a FIREd multimillionaire. I'd give it away if I could, but the letter specifically says you can't do that.

I'm leaning toward using the card, and maybe making an equal-size donation to a food bank from my donor-advised fund. What do you folks think?

What I've learned from working for years in various DoD agencies and commands, which could be extrapolated to other USGov agencies, is that it is easier to distribute funds to everyone, instead of trying to figure out who needs how much, bureaucratic red tape.

The fact that you got 2021-22 funds towards the end of the 2022-23 school year is pretty quick, in red tape world. Better late than never.

As a FI-ish family (but not RE), we didn't need the funds from Uncle Sam that we received during the pandemic. Some of our tenants had trouble paying the bills so we gave them full/partial rent relief. I told my wife that we didn't want to become the asshole landlords who we had dealt with as renters, and that we received monies that we didn't ask for and didn't need, so this was our act of charity/ paying it forward. Similarly, my retired dad gave his pandemic payment monies away to various charities and people that needed it.

Your donation from DAF is an excellent solution. This is a Mustachian People's Problem (MPP) getting solved.

[Chris Pascale]

Obviously, I don't need the money. I'm a FIREd multimillionaire.

Dear Mr. Lane,

Thank you for pointing out that the funds provided to you are not needed, and that you are considering an in-kind charitable contribution. This is laudable.

Given your financial status, I also want to thank you, on behalf of the entire US government, for your tax payments over the years. These payments have gone far in helping our country defend itself, and provide for the well-being of our citizens.

We rarely thank individuals for their tax payments and that is a fault of the government. We take your money, completely waste about a third of it on inefficiencies and graft, and spend too much of the rest on programs designed by special interests. Given the research you did for your post, you are obviously aware the government has no idea how to direct funds to people who really need it. We just keep a shotgun in the corner for programs like this. Amazing isn’t it?

You deserve better.

Yours truly,

Daniel Werfel
IRS Commissioner


cc: J. Biden, K. McCarthy, j. Roberts, C. Schumer

+1

Notice on the Cc line that Commissioner Werfel gave a lowercase "j" to Roberts? Talk about sticking it to a guy!

[Exflyboy]

Wow and there's me thinking I was doing well just getting the ACA subsidy..:)

[Tempname23]

Obviously, I don't need the money. I'm a FIREd multimillionaire. I'd give it away if I could, but the letter specifically says you can't do that.

I'm leaning toward using the card, and maybe making an equal-size donation to a food bank from my donor-advised fund. What do you folks think?

What I've learned from working for years in various DoD agencies and commands,
which could be extrapolated to other USGov agencies,
is that it is easier to distribute funds to everyone, instead of trying to figure out who needs how much, bureaucratic red tape.

I suppose. That's what I didn't like about the stimulus checks. I thought, good idea for those that lost income do to layoffs, but why everyone. And then the after affect of people getting more money from the taxpayers while not working then when they were working. Any wonder they didn't want to go back to work?
  Ya, I took the money. I invested it in VTI or maybe it was VOO, my kids will make use of it.

[charis]

I put the stimulus money in my kids 529 plans. I don't feel bad about it, but it's just giving kids who already have a leg up another leg up. 

[Chris Pascale]

I put the stimulus money in my kids 529 plans. I don't feel bad about it, but it's just giving kids who already have a leg up another leg up.

Another way to look at it is that it's a dividend for the part you play in this country.

[charis]

I put the stimulus money in my kids 529 plans. I don't feel bad about it, but it's just giving kids who already have a leg up another leg up.

Another way to look at it is that it's a dividend for the part you play in this country.

Thanks, I do view it that way and it's definitely being put to good use.

[lhamo]

Heads up -- not sure if this differs by state, but here in Washington I just got a text message this week that they will be sending out ANOTHER round of P-EBT summer benefits for the 22-23 cycle in July.  So if you qualified for free/reduced lunch this school year you might get even more money at some point.  DD just graduated high school so I am surprised she still qualifies.

[charis]

Heads up -- not sure if this differs by state, but here in Washington I just got a text message this week that they will be sending out ANOTHER round of P-EBT summer benefits for the 22-23 cycle in July.  So if you qualified for free/reduced lunch this school year you might get even more money at some point.  DD just graduated high school so I am surprised she still qualifies.

Is this going to become an annual thing for summer lunches?  I think the P in p-ebt has been declared ended.  In any event, I thought the recent funds were for the 21-22 school year summer, not 22-23.

[Cranky]

I think that schools still have some money to spend from this funding.

[lhamo]

Heads up -- not sure if this differs by state, but here in Washington I just got a text message this week that they will be sending out ANOTHER round of P-EBT summer benefits for the 22-23 cycle in July.  So if you qualified for free/reduced lunch this school year you might get even more money at some point.  DD just graduated high school so I am surprised she still qualifies.

Is this going to become an annual thing for summer lunches?  I think the P in p-ebt has been declared ended.  In any event, I thought the recent funds were for the 21-22 school year summer, not 22-23.

We got our 21-22 money in the fall as soon as I completed the free/reduced lunch application -- they backdated the money.  The current announcement definitely says it is for 22-23.  I assume it is just spend down of unused funds.  Not sure the amount yet. Is supposed to hit our card in July.

[iris lily]

This is like all of the other wads of government cash thrown at us during Covid. We each got something like…$1200? Anyway, I just made charitable donations with mine. It was all stupid.

If it bothers your conscience, make a useful donation.

[FireLane]

Oh yeah, I should update this thread!

The card has covered all my groceries for three weeks so far and I still have $75 left. To balance the scales, I took @Dollar Slice's suggestion and made a $400 donation to the Food Bank for NYC.