MMM Will Own a Tesla Within Two Years

[Alex321]

I think he's getting bored with life on $25k a year and is itching to buy a new toy. I predict that he'll own a Tesla in two years, and he'll justify its cost as a donation in support of electric vehicle research and development.

[NoStacheOhio]

I think he's getting bored with life on $25k a year and is itching to buy a new toy. I predict that he'll own a Tesla in two years, and he'll justify its cost as a donation in support of electric vehicle research and development.

Yeah, but at least it'll be used. ;)

Honestly, I think the depreciation curve might be so steep that buying one off a lease won't be crazy.

Alternatively, if car-sharing/on-demand becomes more of a thing, he may not need to.

[nereo]

I think he's getting bored with life on $25k a year and is itching to buy a new toy. I predict that he'll own a Tesla in two years, and he'll justify its cost as a donation in support of electric vehicle research and development.

I'll take that bet.
From all his blog posts, interviews etc. it's clear that Pete hates spending more on something when it doesn't yield better results.  While he's a self-described car enthusiast he hates the inefficencies of sedans and I doubt he'd buy a new car (eliminating anything new models that Tesla unveils in the next 2 years).

I'll bet you a post-card?

[Alex321]

I think he's getting bored with life on $25k a year and is itching to buy a new toy. I predict that he'll own a Tesla in two years, and he'll justify its cost as a donation in support of electric vehicle research and development.

I'll take that bet.
From all his blog posts, interviews etc. it's clear that Pete hates spending more on something when it doesn't yield better results.  While he's a self-described car enthusiast he hates the inefficencies of sedans and I doubt he'd buy a new car (eliminating anything new models that Tesla unveils in the next 2 years).

I'll bet you a post-card?

Deal. :)

He was really into landlording and rental property, too, but he gave that up because the world of blogging started offering more interesting travel options.

[RobFIRE]

A second hand leaf would surely be more likely given the prices: current UK prices: used leaf from £7k, Tesla S from £48k, and about 30x as many Leafs available. I assume similar in the US.

[ptgearguy]

I think his next car will be electric but I doubt it will be a Tesla unless it is in 10 years or so and there is a used consumer version

[nereo]

I think he's getting bored with life on $25k a year and is itching to buy a new toy. I predict that he'll own a Tesla in two years, and he'll justify its cost as a donation in support of electric vehicle research and development.

I'll take that bet.
From all his blog posts, interviews etc. it's clear that Pete hates spending more on something when it doesn't yield better results.  While he's a self-described car enthusiast he hates the inefficencies of sedans and I doubt he'd buy a new car (eliminating anything new models that Tesla unveils in the next 2 years).

I'll bet you a post-card?

Deal. :)

He was really into landlording and rental property, too, but he gave that up because the world of blogging started offering more interesting travel options.

ok!  Someone remind me in two years  about this bet.
I'm also doubtful about your claim that he gave up landlording because of this blog.  He never started this blog with the intention of making boatloads of cash and using it as a way of traveling (though both have happened) - and blogging certainly doesn't preclude him from also being a landlord.

[MasterStache]

I read somewhere, probably on one of his blog post, that he's been actively searching for a Nissan Leaf for about a year now.

[ketchup]

I think he's getting bored with life on $25k a year and is itching to buy a new toy. I predict that he'll own a Tesla in two years, and he'll justify its cost as a donation in support of electric vehicle research and development.

I'll take that bet.
From all his blog posts, interviews etc. it's clear that Pete hates spending more on something when it doesn't yield better results.  While he's a self-described car enthusiast he hates the inefficencies of sedans and I doubt he'd buy a new car (eliminating anything new models that Tesla unveils in the next 2 years).

I'll bet you a post-card?

Deal. :)

He was really into landlording and rental property, too, but he gave that up because the world of blogging started offering more interesting travel options.

ok!  Someone remind me in two years  about this bet.
I'm also doubtful about your claim that he gave up landlording because of this blog.  He never started this blog with the intention of making boatloads of cash and using it as a way of traveling (though both have happened) - and blogging certainly doesn't preclude him from also being a landlord.

My understanding is that he got out of landlording because the property he was renting out was a holdover from his house building business, and was never really meant to be held as a rental (something like $450,000 value with $2,000/month rent).  He just held onto it while the housing market recovered.

[Travis]

Pete already said that the first real opportunity for a Mustachian to buy the new Tesla would be around 2023 when this first batch has been delivered and the first round of leases have expired so a fairly brand-new Tesla with a big chunk of its depreciation drained out of it would hit the used market.

[Last Night]

Don't be surprised if Tesla comes out of the woodwork and "gives him" one, I am pretty sure he wrote the article with that intent anyway.

[I'm a red panda]

Don't be surprised if Tesla comes out of the woodwork and "gives him" one, I am pretty sure he wrote the article with that intent anyway.

At least he'd be likely to disclose it. I am so freaking tired of bloggers posting about stuff they got for free and forgetting to mention it!

[NoStacheOhio]

Don't be surprised if Tesla comes out of the woodwork and "gives him" one, I am pretty sure he wrote the article with that intent anyway.

At least he'd be likely to disclose it. I am so freaking tired of bloggers posting about stuff they got for free and forgetting to mention it!

In the U.S. that's technically an FTC violation

[nereo]

Don't be surprised if Tesla comes out of the woodwork and "gives him" one, I am pretty sure he wrote the article with that intent anyway.

I'd be shocked if Tesla gave him any of their cars. They have waiting lists for all their cars and all manner of journalists, car enthusiasts and bloggers chomping to review them. At best the company loans out models for a few days at a time in exchange for publicity.  What would Tesla gain from giving away a car when it could either sell it or loan it out to 20+ writers a year?

[I'm a red panda]

Don't be surprised if Tesla comes out of the woodwork and "gives him" one, I am pretty sure he wrote the article with that intent anyway.

At least he'd be likely to disclose it. I am so freaking tired of bloggers posting about stuff they got for free and forgetting to mention it!

In the U.S. that's technically an FTC violation

Oh, I know- but I can think of a ton of bloggers who do it.  I've unfollowed a few in-person friends because their blog turned into nothing but undisclosed sponsored posts.  (Not to mention once blogs are nothing but shills from free stuff, it gets annoying.)

[Last Night]

Don't be surprised if Tesla comes out of the woodwork and "gives him" one, I am pretty sure he wrote the article with that intent anyway.

I'd be shocked if Tesla gave him any of their cars. They have waiting lists for all their cars and all manner of journalists, car enthusiasts and bloggers chomping to review them. At best the company loans out models for a few days at a time in exchange for publicity.  What would Tesla gain from giving away a car when it could either sell it or loan it out to 20+ writers a year?

lol

You should take some time to check your sources.

[AZDude]

Can you really blame him if he does go out and buy a Model 3 or a Bolt in the next two years? I certainly would if I had multiple millions of dollars and a successful business making $400,000+.

Of course, I don't think he *can* spend that much on a new car. Its just not in his DNA. He might think about it. He might even really want to... but when it comes time to write the check, I think he will balk and buy a $7K Leaf.

[seattleite]

Ha! That's exactly what I was thinking when I read that article. The thing is, I don't think that it's an unreasonable purchase for someone with that much money. He can still live well within the world of high savings rates and buy this car.

It would clearly look bad for him to buy it. But I don't think he needs to actually buy it personally in order to have access to it. He just needs to start a company (which I think he already has for tax purposes) and have the company buy it. Then he doesn't need to report it on his blog. Just because he drives a Tesla, doesn't mean he owns it. :-)

[nereo]

Don't be surprised if Tesla comes out of the woodwork and "gives him" one, I am pretty sure he wrote the article with that intent anyway.

I'd be shocked if Tesla gave him any of their cars. They have waiting lists for all their cars and all manner of journalists, car enthusiasts and bloggers chomping to review them. At best the company loans out models for a few days at a time in exchange for publicity.  What would Tesla gain from giving away a car when it could either sell it or loan it out to 20+ writers a year?

lol

You should take some time to check your sources.

in what way have I misspoken?

[Alex321]

Can you really blame him if he does go out and buy a Model 3 or a Bolt in the next two years? I certainly would if I had multiple millions of dollars and a successful business making $400,000+.

Of course, I don't think he *can* spend that much on a new car. Its just not in his DNA. He might think about it. He might even really want to... but when it comes time to write the check, I think he will balk and buy a $7K Leaf.

I couldn't blame him if he spent money like he described in the April Fool's article, but that's not the point. The point is that he sacrifices quite a bit of his persona if he does either.

[forummm]

Ha! That's exactly what I was thinking when I read that article. The thing is, I don't think that it's an unreasonable purchase for someone with that much money. He can still live well within the world of high savings rates and buy this car.

It would clearly look bad for him to buy it. But I don't think he needs to actually buy it personally in order to have access to it. He just needs to start a company (which I think he already has for tax purposes) and have the company buy it. Then he doesn't need to report it on his blog. Just because he drives a Tesla, doesn't mean he owns it. :-)

He already does this with a fair amount of expenses. His trips, cameras, etc. Similarly the things (like bikes) given to him that he promotes on the site. They don't show up in his annual personal spending summaries.

[tobitonic]

Ha! That's exactly what I was thinking when I read that article. The thing is, I don't think that it's an unreasonable purchase for someone with that much money. He can still live well within the world of high savings rates and buy this car.

It would clearly look bad for him to buy it. But I don't think he needs to actually buy it personally in order to have access to it. He just needs to start a company (which I think he already has for tax purposes) and have the company buy it. Then he doesn't need to report it on his blog. Just because he drives a Tesla, doesn't mean he owns it. :-)

He already does this with a fair amount of expenses. His trips, cameras, etc. Similarly the things (like bikes) given to him that he promotes on the site. They don't show up in his annual personal spending summaries.

Yup. It'll just be another "business expense," probably followed by the annual magical 25k spending summary.

[ender]

Ha! That's exactly what I was thinking when I read that article. The thing is, I don't think that it's an unreasonable purchase for someone with that much money. He can still live well within the world of high savings rates and buy this car.

It would clearly look bad for him to buy it. But I don't think he needs to actually buy it personally in order to have access to it. He just needs to start a company (which I think he already has for tax purposes) and have the company buy it. Then he doesn't need to report it on his blog. Just because he drives a Tesla, doesn't mean he owns it. :-)

He already does this with a fair amount of expenses. His trips, cameras, etc. Similarly the things (like bikes) given to him that he promotes on the site. They don't show up in his annual personal spending summaries.

Heh I read the article after reading the comments here and... yeah. Just yeah...

Everyone can find a justification for anything, if they want it enough. Whether that's a gas guzzling SUV or a tesla. You can't write a glowing review and endorsement of something and then write some "oh but really most people shouldn't buy this" and somehow act like it's not an endorsement.

[alsoknownasDean]

What's wrong with the Scion?

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

[Ricky]

Nope. Not a chance. Frugality muscles too strong...

As appealing as the Tesla is, it's definitely not practical when you can go out and buy a used $10k car and get much more bang for your buck...The difference saved in electricity would take multiple lifetimes in MMM's case to pay for itself. The environmental cost would be much higher as well overall even if it's running electric.

Electric is definitely the future - and I think that was the point of this article. It's just no where near ready for mass consumption.

[Alex321]

Ha! That's exactly what I was thinking when I read that article. The thing is, I don't think that it's an unreasonable purchase for someone with that much money. He can still live well within the world of high savings rates and buy this car.

It would clearly look bad for him to buy it. But I don't think he needs to actually buy it personally in order to have access to it. He just needs to start a company (which I think he already has for tax purposes) and have the company buy it. Then he doesn't need to report it on his blog. Just because he drives a Tesla, doesn't mean he owns it. :-)

He already does this with a fair amount of expenses. His trips, cameras, etc. Similarly the things (like bikes) given to him that he promotes on the site. They don't show up in his annual personal spending summaries.

Yup. It'll just be another "business expense," probably followed by the annual magical 25k spending summary.

Agreed. He's lost the original storyline, because he clearly no longer has much interest in living small and simply. Not when someone is traveling as frequently as he is for speaking engagements and potential endorsement meetings.

[Allen]

I think if Pete wants a Tesla, he should buy one.  He has done his part, he has laid out the philosophy, he has proven it has worked.

Sadly, he may feel boxed into a corner by preaching a low cost living buying ANY big luxury might have people calling him a hypocrite.  But his income is astronomical so him buying a $70k car would be similar to me buying a $10k car.  No big deal.  Now, if he starting buying everything super luxury (like his recent post about $256k yearly spending for april fools) then sure he'd be a hypocritical.  But he is a gadget guy AND a car guy AND can afford it without blinking because he's been so frugal his whole life. 

One "Victory Tesla" would be fine with me as a fan.

[golden1]

Nah, but I wouldn't be surprised if he owned a used one in 2022,2023.  I certainly hope to.  Buying someone's used Tesla that you only plan on driving a few thousand miles a year is not really a bad call. 

Honestly, there are just too many unknowns at this point for me to commit to one.  Sure, they are very cool, and they are tempting, but the reliability of Tesla was called into question when Consumer Reports yanked their recommended status from the Tesla S after it ran into a lot of problems.  The real issue with the Tesla 3 isn't whether they can make a great car.  The S proved that.  But can they produce and support a fleet of many hundreds of thousands of cars.  That is a transition that is very difficult to make. 

[NoStacheOhio]

Nah, but I wouldn't be surprised if he owned a used one in 2022,2023.  I certainly hope to.  Buying someone's used Tesla that you only plan on driving a few thousand miles a year is not really a bad call. 

This brings up the question of battery life on a seldom-used electric. Lithium batteries do best with moderate regular use. I assume Teslas are smart enough to maintain the battery as well as possible, but is it really designed to be sitting for long periods of time?

[Miss Piggy]

Don't be surprised if Tesla comes out of the woodwork and "gives him" one, I am pretty sure he wrote the article with that intent anyway.

I'd be shocked if Tesla gave him any of their cars. They have waiting lists for all their cars and all manner of journalists, car enthusiasts and bloggers chomping to review them. At best the company loans out models for a few days at a time in exchange for publicity.  What would Tesla gain from giving away a car when it could either sell it or loan it out to 20+ writers a year?

Tesla would have nothing to gain by giving MMM a car. His main audience consists of people who have a goal of saving money (read: not buying new cars), and one of his primary recommendations revolves around buying used cars and keeping them darn near forever. It would not be a good marketing decision to give a car to MMM. There are plenty of other bloggers out there who would be more "productive" gift recipients for Tesla.

[Chris22]

he'll justify its cost as a donation in support of electric vehicle research and development.

Honestly, it would make for an interesting discussion.  If one runs an environmentalism/frugalism/anti-consumerism blog, is it in line with or against the principles of the blog to purchase something like a Tesla which is, on one hand, fairly consumeristic, but on the other, bleeding edge environmentalism.  To me, that's the kind of company MMM would want to support and patronize, but I'm not as anti-consumerist as he is.  It's a very interesting paradox. 

[I'm a red panda]

he'll justify its cost as a donation in support of electric vehicle research and development.

Honestly, it would make for an interesting discussion.  If one runs an environmentalism/frugalism/anti-consumerism blog, is it in line with or against the principles of the blog to purchase something like a Tesla which is, on one hand, fairly consumeristic, but on the other, bleeding edge environmentalism.  To me, that's the kind of company MMM would want to support and patronize, but I'm not as anti-consumerist as he is.  It's a very interesting paradox.

That's how we justified the hybrid SUV over a regular one.  It was highly unlikely the cost of gas would ever make a difference, but I was just really opposed to owning an SUV, even a small one- but DH wanted it for hauling.  So I felt a lot better about having a hybrid. 

It cost more, but we paid cash, and I felt happy to help support a technology I think is good.


MMM is in a weird place because he is raking in money he has set himself up to be able to not spend without judgement.  When his message is really "don't work for the man" and "save the Earth, hug a tree".

[CmFtns]

I guarantee you he will buy a leaf in the near future and not a tesla...

[nereo]

I guarantee you he will buy a leaf in the near future and not a tesla...

How does someone guarantee that? 
(I tend to agree with you btw - I think a leaf is far more likely... especially since he's posted about how there's a glut of them coming off-lease right now. The one thing that keeps me from thinking he'll definitely get one is the range - compared to the Tesla the LEaf has a much shorter range (under 100 miles).  Since MMM trends towards long road trips I think that might be a non-starter, unless they were go to a two-car family.  )

[undercover]

I vote: who cares.

For every idea that MMM "introduces", you can find several other contradicting ideas in his own life. I do think the idea of keeping the whole $25k/yr spending thing going is clearly misleading, and I think most people are in agreement with that. Regardless, his ideas about frugality lie somewhere between extreme and mainstream, so it's not going to hurt anyone to take some advice from him even if he lives more of a lavish life than he fully lets on.

I honestly think he's a fairly genuine dude though and truly believes being happy means to invent and create rather than to consume. The money in his bank account doesn't burn a hole in his wallet like it would some, since he knows that purchasing things doesn't make him any happier past a certain point. I think he knows the Tesla is one of those purchases, thus I doubt he ever will.

[coolistdude]

I guarantee you he will buy a leaf in the near future and not a tesla...

How does someone guarantee that? 
(I tend to agree with you btw - I think a leaf is far more likely... especially since he's posted about how there's a glut of them coming off-lease right now. The one thing that keeps me from thinking he'll definitely get one is the range - compared to the Tesla the LEaf has a much shorter range (under 100 miles).  Since MMM trends towards long road trips I think that might be a non-starter, unless they were go to a two-car family.  )

He may like the limited towing though: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=13428

[Gin1984]

I guarantee you he will buy a leaf in the near future and not a tesla...

How does someone guarantee that? 
(I tend to agree with you btw - I think a leaf is far more likely... especially since he's posted about how there's a glut of them coming off-lease right now. The one thing that keeps me from thinking he'll definitely get one is the range - compared to the Tesla the LEaf has a much shorter range (under 100 miles).  Since MMM trends towards long road trips I think that might be a non-starter, unless they were go to a two-car family. )

They are a two car family, I thought.

[nereo]

I guarantee you he will buy a leaf in the near future and not a tesla...

How does someone guarantee that? 
(I tend to agree with you btw - I think a leaf is far more likely... especially since he's posted about how there's a glut of them coming off-lease right now. The one thing that keeps me from thinking he'll definitely get one is the range - compared to the Tesla the LEaf has a much shorter range (under 100 miles).  Since MMM trends towards long road trips I think that might be a non-starter, unless they were go to a two-car family. )

They are a two car family, I thought.

sorry, yeah.... by two car I meant to *cars* - instead of a car and a van.  As in three vehicles total... two small cars and a large van.
I was (not very eloquently) saying that the van is a piss-poor choice fuel-wise for long distance trips, and a Leaf would be a poor choice because of range.  So a leaf would only make sense to me if they had another fuel-efficient car for road trips.

[Friar]

I guarantee you he will buy a leaf in the near future and not a tesla...

How does someone guarantee that? 
(I tend to agree with you btw - I think a leaf is far more likely... especially since he's posted about how there's a glut of them coming off-lease right now. The one thing that keeps me from thinking he'll definitely get one is the range - compared to the Tesla the LEaf has a much shorter range (under 100 miles).  Since MMM trends towards long road trips I think that might be a non-starter, unless they were go to a two-car family.  )

He has mentioned it in his blog posts.

For 2016, I have committed to another bigger and better year. Plans include [] buying a used Nissan Leaf and using as part of experiments relating to home solar power and Uber driving

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/12/28/holiday-living-guide/

Admittedly, that doesn't guarantee it but it provides a much higher likelihood!

[CmFtns]

Okay fine I didn't actually mean that I guarantee it... but he has talked about Nissan leafs like a bunch of times and how their super cheap now and how he is interested in getting one

[dandarc]

He has mentioned it in his blog posts.

For 2016, I have committed to another bigger and better year. Plans include [] buying a used Nissan Leaf and using as part of experiments relating to home solar power and Uber driving

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/12/28/holiday-living-guide/

Admittedly, that doesn't guarantee it but it provides a much higher likelihood!

So appears that if bought, the Leaf is going to be part of the nebulous "business expense" category for MMM that garners so many haters of the "You spend WAY MORE than $25K / year" variety.

[I'm a red panda]

For a car to be 100% "business expense" (per IRS) it cannot be used for ANY personal reason.

[NoStacheOhio]

For a car to be 100% "business expense" (per IRS) it cannot be used for ANY personal reason.

What are the IRP rules for business write-offs? ;)

[nereo]

For a car to be 100% "business expense" (per IRS) it cannot be used for ANY personal reason.

What are the IRP rules for business write-offs? ;)

none, whatsoever.  you're not allowed any fringe benefits from what might be interpreted as 'work', nor are you allowed to utilize your flexible schedule to receive reduced pricing (e.g. movie matinees or mid-day drink specials).  You may not spend any time analyzing stocks in an effort to beat an index (that's work), and you cannot build something you would otherwise have to buy (like a bookcase or dresser).
Any of those constitute receiving compensation in exchange for effort, which violates the explicit terms of retirement, which the IRP defines as "retirement: a permanent and voluntary state of not working".

[Fred2004]

I only read half the posts...but you guys are pretty cynical and hard on MMM

He checked out of the rat race almost 10 yrs ago by now.  He is raking in some cash on the blog now, but that is more a side-effect of his views.  I for one don't believe he created this blog to make money, call me naive...just look at his post about taking cursing out of the site (from like 2-3yrs ago?)

He barely drives as it is now...driving is not going to add happiness or value to his life or even really be needed, hence the LEAF which only goes 80 miles per charge, which would be plenty for him...

The Tesla is awesome, but would be overkill for him...like he said in his April fool's post...he could buy TWO easily.  Or he could buy stock...I'm guessing the latter.

[CmFtns]

For a car to be 100% "business expense" (per IRS) it cannot be used for ANY personal reason.

Every second that he drives the car he would be gaining valuable insight and experience on the electric car lifestyle which he would use to write about on his blog... right?

[I'm a red panda]

For a car to be 100% "business expense" (per IRS) it cannot be used for ANY personal reason.

Every second that he drives the car he would be gaining valuable insight and experience on the electric car lifestyle which he would use to write about on his blog... right?

And bloggers wonder why they are targeted for audit....

[CmFtns]

For a car to be 100% "business expense" (per IRS) it cannot be used for ANY personal reason.

Every second that he drives the car he would be gaining valuable insight and experience on the electric car lifestyle which he would use to write about on his blog... right?

And bloggers wonder why they are targeted for audit....

come on... people stretch the law so much farther than that... plus he would hardly be saving anything on taxes since the price of the vehicle is so low anyway

This is the same as a car magazine having a fleet of "test cars" that they let their employees/writers drive around in their daily lives in order to get feedback for their readers. I'm sure those are business expenses.

[NoStacheOhio]

come on... people stretch the law so much farther than that... plus he would hardly be saving anything on taxes since the price of the vehicle is so low anyway

This is the same as a car magazine having a fleet of "test cars" that they let their employees/writers drive around in their daily lives in order to get feedback for their readers. I'm sure those are business expenses.

The writers probably pay a token "personal use" fee. Drug companies started doing this a while back for their people with company cars. Although, for what they're charging, you should be able to get more than a shitty Chevy Equinox.

[TabbyCat]

What about the Volt? Fantastic car, can get a good price used, with the amount of diving he does/would do, 90% would but electric only but you have the gas assist for road trips. And it's an American car. American innovation - that's pretty badass too.