MMM Spare Time?

[debtaholic]

I’m continually adopting an MMM mindset and so far feeling quite positive! I’ve recently started a new job a 15-minute bike from home, ditched my car and prioritized paying off my debt. I’ve gone from a monthly net negative of a couple hundred bucks to saving $1500 then $1700 the last 2 months (almost all of it into debt repayment and a little bit into an emergency fund). At this rate I’ll pay off all my debt in approx. another 8 months.

I’m feeling good now about upping the anti! I need to make the most of my spare time and was hoping for a little input based on your experiences and insight as FIRE experts.

My spare time & life profile:

• After weekday work, workout and getting enough sleep I’ll have about 2 hours left over
• On weekends I make a little additional income personal training for about 4 hours so I essentially have a full weekend to commit - let’s say approx. 15 hours if I push myself
• So a total of 25 spare hours a week
• My partner and I are looking at having a kid in approx. 3-4 years. (I’m in my mid 30s, her early 30s)
• I make $52k a year in my current role
• I’m in a bad spot to support this but working my way out. I’m REALLY anxious that the future with a child is going to be a slog if I can’t put myself in a better education or financial situation in the next 3 years while I have the extra time to do so.

My ideas - What I need help and advice with! :

Idea #1 - I focus my spare time on saving money. My 25 hours spare time is dedicated towards finding weekend and evening work. If I’m highly successful this may add 20% a year to my paycheque but I could theoretically add 50% to my savings rate as my life fixed expenses are already paid for (ie. it’s all cream)
Outcome: I have 80-100k in the bank in 4 years time.

Idea #2 - I focus my spare time on education. I’m tracking to put away about 20k a year which means I’ll have 60 in the bank when a child comes (this year going towards debt, 2 more years until kid, 1 more year to save) Education would likely set me back 10-20k depending on how strategic I was. My job is a fairly simple generalist marketing & webmaster type role (by webmaster I basically move content around a CMS) so certainly not high demand skills. My thoughts are to invest in front end or full stack development or data analysis certificate/diploma as this seems like it would give me good potential in-demand skills and allow me to potentially get a higher salary down the road (although I wouldn’t be practicing these skills much with my current role and employer which is a downside) I’m not married to the idea of these particular skills, they just seem the best ROI for a 3 year time investment.
Outcome: I have a software/data analytics etc. diploma and 30-50k in the bank in 4 years time.

Idea #3 - I focus my spare time on developing an online business. Part of the reason I’m currently so broke is I’ve had 3 cracks at the business game. I learned from each one and got better and more disciplined each time but still couldn’t make a great deal of money. I would LOVE to have a small business - it’s a dream of mine - but at my age now it seems more and more of a risk. Idea 3 involves working part time evenings and weekends on setting up a business.
Outcome: ideal would be to have 50-70k in the bank and a small side business making 1-2k a month.

So what are your thoughts between 1, 2 & 3. I go back and fourth and am up in the air on all 3.

1 last caveat - I would love to kick back, enjoy my current job and spend my spare time exploring the outdoors, learning carpentry, reading etc. but I feel if I do that I’ll be in real trouble when a kid comes along with the same job and not enough money.

I’m also unconventional at heart. Working a 9-5 indefinitely doesn’t sound like the best way to live a life so saving for FIRE, starting a side biz that could grow into real income or upgrading skills to get a more exciting and engaging role seem like the only option.

[BicycleB]

Tradeoffs everywhere; unsure which course is best.

Fundamentally, you have healthy moderate income but are not happy with your role. The paths you are outlining wouldn't necessarily fit you either. Personally I think that success and some happiness in any of the paths is possible, but far from guaranteed.

Suggestions for now:
5 hours per week on data skills,
5 hours on coding,
5 on a business attempt,
5 on having the most fun you can have, and
5 hours playfully optimizing the financial efficiency of your joint life in ways that your partner enjoys.

That last suggestion is because your joint savings rate, not personal rate, will likely determine the family's financial outcome. And joint savings rate will be based on your partner enjoying / accepting /supporting / participating in your moves toward financial efficiency. Whenever you've picked the low-hanging fruit, I suggest focusing the family portion on max fun rather than min cost.

Care to describe the past business ventures to help understand your history/skills/options?

[debtaholic]

Yep I think you’ve summed it up in a nutshell. It’s a nice little income producing gig for now but I don’t think produces enough to retire early (given my current financial situation, age and child expectations) or enough engagement to work until a later retirement - I feel I need at least one of those 2 conditions.

I do like your suggestion of dedicating a small amount of my “spare time pie” to each proposed idea (as you can well see I’m unsure which route to commt to)
I guess I see 2 potential drawbacks going this route:
#1 I divide my time 5 ways so whichever idea proves fruitful will take 5x as long to acheive
#2 I believe in deep work and focus on 1 particular goal can lead to greater return on investment per time period and also more piece of mind so attempting to simultaneously attach 5 potential goals may leave me a little frazzled.

[BicycleB]

Yep I think you’ve summed it up in a nutshell. It’s a nice little income producing gig for now but I don’t think produces enough to retire early (given my current financial situation, age and child expectations) or enough engagement to work until a later retirement - I feel I need at least one of those 2 conditions.

I do like your suggestion of dedicating a small amount of my “spare time pie” to each proposed idea (as you can well see I’m unsure which route to commt to)
I guess I see 2 potential drawbacks going this route:
#1 I divide my time 5 ways so whichever idea proves fruitful will take 5x as long to acheive
#2 I believe in deep work and focus on 1 particular goal can lead to greater return on investment per time period and also more piece of mind so attempting to simultaneously attach 5 potential goals may leave me a little frazzled.

I see those drawbacks too. In my opinion you're going to be frazzled or otherwise troubled until you achieve FIRE...probably 15 to 30 years from now.

Can you see any advantages of pursuing all 5? If so, what are they?

If not, feel free to pick just one. Or do "deep work" by choosing a different focus period. Or defining success criteria to determine whether to continue the one you choose, and do your first choice until it fulfills your do-or-drop criteria. Your life, your decisions.

[MonkeyJenga]

Way to go on the new job, ditching the car, and attacking the debt!

I would avoid the business route unless you have a thorough business plan that avoids your previous errors, requires minimal start-up costs, and has a clear path to profitability.

Why did you go broke from starting online businesses? Or did they have physical presences that required more capital investment?

You don't need to wait 4 years to start making money from programming if you pursue that path. You can start building things quickly, and take on small jobs sooner than that. So you can combine 1 and 2, because the coding will lead you to freelance work. Or combine 2 and 3 and use your new skills to build your online business.

What does your partner think of your idea to spend all of your free time on these paths, and of the idea of FIRE?

[debtaholic]

Thanks for the feedback!

All 3 of the previous tries were physical (and logistically complicated) businesses. The first required an upfront investment of about 25k (10 of which we took out a loan for, dumb dumb)

I was thinking of combining 1 & 2 actually. Or just pursuing $ to get myself out of a financial pickle and that extra pursuit will hopefully lead to a bit of freelancing which could eventually morph into a small retirement biz.

partner is very supportive. Doesn't mind when I miss hanging out for work/study (or so she says!)

[Tyson]

I'd check with your employer to see if they offer $$ towards ongoing education.  Many do as a benefit, but won't tell you unless you ask.  Then you can work toward a diploma on their dime.  Diplomas are worth getting because nowadays many job postings have software on the back end that automatically filters out certain resumes (like, no diploma). 

Even if they don't pay, I'd say get the diploma, it'll serve you well over the course of your career.  Certificates come and go in value, but diplomas have lasting value.

[debtaholic]

Thanks for the post,

I actually have a bachelors of arts in Economics, but over the last couple years have been looking at different technical certifications (mainly in data analysis and software dev)

Interesting you should bring this up though as at the moment I'm putting together an email to ask my new employer about professional development opportunities (Not sure if it will turn them off or impress them I want to keep learning). Trying to word it as, "what do you think I could learn to bring more value to the organization", and then suggesting 3 areas that I want to pursue.

My only slight issue is, my experience and education (I work in marketing) trumps any short term certificate or diploma in something like software dev. So even if I did get the cert. I would likely have to take a big step back (in pay and responsibilities) to utilize it.

The benefit, obviously, is software dev is far more scalable so in the long term supports family, gets me to FIRE faster etc.

[Tyson]

Thanks for the post,

I actually have a bachelors of arts in Economics, but over the last couple years have been looking at different technical certifications (mainly in data analysis and software dev)

Interesting you should bring this up though as at the moment I'm putting together an email to ask my new employer about professional development opportunities (Not sure if it will turn them off or impress them I want to keep learning). Trying to word it as, "what do you think I could learn to bring more value to the organization", and then suggesting 3 areas that I want to pursue.

My only slight issue is, my experience and education (I work in marketing) trumps any short term certificate or diploma in something like software dev. So even if I did get the cert. I would likely have to take a big step back (in pay and responsibilities) to utilize it.

The benefit, obviously, is software dev is far more scalable so in the long term supports family, gets me to FIRE faster etc.

Get a masters.  That's what I did.  My bachelors is in Business and my masters is in Information Systems.  Re: a justification, that'll be where you need to get creative - you know your workplace better than I do so you'll have a better feel for what's convincing.  In my case, I just tied it in to my career development goals that we have to do every year and the company was happy to go along.

[debtaholic]

Thanks!

Yeah this seems to be the way to go. It may suck up time but can't turn down free education.

Crafting a lengthy email to management now.

[debtaholic]

Sent!

Probably way too lengthy but trying to make my case. I'm essentially in marketing/CMS management so trying to extrapolate and make a case for data analyst & web development training may be a stretch. Fingers crossed there is some work bucks available.

They might come back with something totally different as well but I feel whatever it is I shouldn't turn down free education (or I could at least take some free stuff online?)

[Tyson]

Sent!

Probably way too lengthy but trying to make my case. I'm essentially in marketing/CMS management so trying to extrapolate and make a case for data analyst & web development training may be a stretch. Fingers crossed there is some work bucks available.

They might come back with something totally different as well but I feel whatever it is I shouldn't turn down free education (or I could at least take some free stuff online?)

Even if they don't approve the track you want, very often there are "core courses" that are shared across different degrees.  So focus on taking the core stuff for free, then at some point in the future switch to the degree-specific classes.  You might even have to pay for those out of pocket.  But hopefully by then a good chunk of it will have already been paid by your employer. 

[webguy]

Sent!

Probably way too lengthy but trying to make my case. I'm essentially in marketing/CMS management so trying to extrapolate and make a case for data analyst & web development training may be a stretch. Fingers crossed there is some work bucks available.

They might come back with something totally different as well but I feel whatever it is I shouldn't turn down free education (or I could at least take some free stuff online?)

So, what did they say?? Keeping us in suspense here.

[Linea_Norway]

An inexpensive study (preferably paid for by your employer) is usually a good investment when thinking about future jobs. If your boss pays for it, check then in the personnel handbook how long you would have to stay with that employer before you would have to pay it back.

I also recommend not working all the time of the day. You should spend some time per day on yourself and your partner. Maybe keep half an hour a day for relaxing?

[Rosy]

Always invest in yourself first - that means useful work experience and a lifetime of education. Whether that means a masters degree or broadening your coding skills or finding a lateral job that pays for you going to school and has a better 401K.

Choose one path and give it your all, but take time to evaluate along the way and be honest with yourself as to whether it continues to be the right way for you.
Forget about starting another new business, instead find a way to make $100K plus in five years.

You are smart to realize that we all get 24hr a day - rich or poor, make it count. Optimizing is, of course, the way to go, but - we all need balance in our lives. So do include time for relaxing, doing nothing or pursuing a hobby. We all need downtime and we all do better if we allow time for socializing and most of all family time.

[debtaholic]

Sorry all - have been quite full on lately.

Looks like there is a bit of allowance for education at my new work place but since I've only been here for 3 months they essentially said, "we love your initiative, let's chat in another month at our strategic session". They seem pretty positive but I think don't want to give the impression of favouritism (which our department already has).

Loosely speaking, if I could find a persuasive argument for a course that I "need" to take for my work here they'll pay for at least 50%, but probably won't start until 6 months in (which will likely work well as lots of programs/courses begin in September)

In other news I found a couple unrelated side gigs paying $25-40 an hour for an additional 13 hours a week. I'm hoping to average 1750 a month in debt repayment + $750 into retirement fund. It's aggressive but I've managed to hold that for the past 2.5 months.