MMM and lifestyle

[ixtap]

The media on FIRE tends to be dominated by spectacular stories about someone who downsized from a large house to a tiny home, from a leasing a BMW to owning a clunker, etc. But frankly, we don't see all that much of that around here.

I have told my own story. DH did downsize from his big house to my smallish condo when we got together, but we were pretty content with our lifestyle choices. I found MMM and his ilk when researching how to manage our nest egg for an extended sabbatical. We were already well on the way to our savings goals, I was just looking for the mechanics. Once we found FIRE, we realized that it wouldn't take much longer to meet a 4% goal, and decided we liked the leeway that gave us for returning to work at some point in the future (or not). But along the way to 4% we realized that we might want to upgrade at some point in the future, so here we are still padding away. For us, the two biggest changes to learning more about finances has been working a little longer and socking away a lot more in Roth via the MBR. Neither of these is particularly groundbreaking, but I do appreciate having a place to share goals and milestones with like minded folk.

[Metalcat]

None of the above???

I discovered MMM at the beginning of my career when I was trying to figure out what kind of life I wanted to live now that I wasn't just a poor student.

All paths were open to me, Mustachianism helped me craft my optimal lifestyle and not get sucked into hedonic adaptation just because I was making a ton of money.

[Nutty]

The whole career was to get debt free.  Older cars, fighting CC debt cause "we needed this" with the spouse and raising kids along with a poor, time consuming job.

Changed the job.  The kids graduated high school.  College mostly done and paid.  CC debt retired.  Still driving old cars.  I had more time to ask "what's next".  Then I found this site while trying to find ways to invest tax free.

Still asking questions, but I figured out we were closer than a lot of folks, but older than most here.  Late is better than never. 

[Dreamer40]

Finding MMM helped me to get more organized and concrete about my goals. I didn't have the tools initially to know what amount of money I was aiming for. And it inspired me to make a few small lifestyle changes that added up over time.

[CodingHare]

I'm with @Malcat , my folks were and are frugal people who believed in the power of savings.  My dad was hammering the drum of saving for retirement when I was a kid, even.  I found MMM within the first year of employment.  MMM mostly hammered home lessons my folks taught me as a kid and introduced me to the Three Fund Portfolio (my parents used financial advisors and got screwed by them, so where to invest was the piece of the puzzle that was missing for me.

[Zikoris]

I only made a few small changes here and there, some of which I would have done regardless, like looking for a better job. Honestly, the only two things that come to mind are finding a cheaper cell phone plan when my contract expired, and cutting my weekly organic/local home grocery delivery service. Otherwise for me it was really just a case of going from poverty-level wages to average wages, while keeping my spending the same, and then investing the difference. It was all shockingly easy, to be honest.

One thing I often wonder: Do most people find FIRE easy or hard? I see a lot of people talk about how it requires a lot of work, time, and discipline, but that hasn't been my experience at all. And I make way less money than everyone else here. I would do a poll, but I'd have no idea how to word it or what the options would be.

[Bloop Bloop Reloaded]

I tend not to spend a lot, because I'm naturally frugal (i.e., I would be frugal even if you gave me an infinite bank, because i think most consumer things are overpriced and not worth it), but I spend a lot on things I like. And becoming financially healthier over time gives me more leeway to spend and indulge as I see fit. I think if you are depriving yourself of something you want, you're doing yourself a disservice. FI/RE is not about deprivation. It is about prioritisation.

The media portrayals of the FI/FIRE movement as requiring some sort of sacrifice are deliberately designed to portray us as anti-consumerist, miserable people. I see FIRE as requiring only conscious optimisation of choices.

[ixtap]

It was all shockingly easy, to be honest.

One thing I often wonder: Do most people find FIRE easy or hard? I see a lot of people talk about how it requires a lot of work, time, and discipline, but that hasn't been my experience at all. And I make way less money than everyone else here. I would do a poll, but I'd have no idea how to word it or what the options would be.

This is my inspiration for this thread. Multiple choice always sucks.

So often the media talks about the deprivation involved with FIRE and I don't get it. I thought this might show us where some people see that in their own lives. Who wants to be miserable, they say and, well, I am not miserable.

DH would refer to downsizing as an improvement. He had only been in my condo for about two weeks when he announced that it felt more like home than his McMansion ever had.

We are very privileged with an income that makes living below your means a cakewalk, but you still have to resist the siren call. The sirens just aren't singing our song, so that's easy.

[Bloop Bloop Reloaded]

I'd love to see a media portrayal of the upsides of being FIREd.

"This family didn't have to worry about the financial effects pandemic because it made intelligent spending and earning choices and had a very sound emergency fund. In fact no one in this family even needs to work if he or she doesn't want to. This family avoids most of the stresses associated with western consumer culture and also has no need to keep up with the Joneses; they've already won the race. This family didn't get there via deprivation, just via smart choices and good budgeting. They have everything they want to have in material terms. In fact they just bought a yacht and a small island in the Bahamas."

[John Galt incarnate!]

I discovered MMM   when I was looking for a recipe for fried potatoes.

As I recall, the first post I read here was a recipe for fried potatoes posted by MMM himself.

I read more and liked this site's eclecticism   so I signed up and here I am.

I voted for I was just happy to find my tribe but I did pick up a couple of new tricks because I  like the MMM ethos for its nonconformity.

I was FIREd before I came here.

Under the tutelage of an aunt, uncle, and my parents my progress toward FIRE commenced early in life.

Both of my parents are investors (mostly my father). My maternal aunt is also an investor. At  about the age of ten when my  mother and father talked about their stocks at the kitchen table  I sat there  listening to them and when my aunt  visited I'd listen to the  three of them.

My godfather is an uncle and a banker.  He taught me about compound interest from savings and how bonds work. He and my aunt the investor are from different sides of the family.

When I was about 12 my parents appreciated my interest in investing so they bought some stock for me. So my start was really easy and my early interest in money and stocks led to me choosing finance as my major when I earned my BS degree in business administration. The knowledge of finance and investing I acquired as a finance major has been a boon to my investment success.

[RWD]

One thing I often wonder: Do most people find FIRE easy or hard? I see a lot of people talk about how it requires a lot of work, time, and discipline, but that hasn't been my experience at all. And I make way less money than everyone else here. I would do a poll, but I'd have no idea how to word it or what the options would be.

I also find FIRE excessively easy. I feel like we're barely even trying to be frugal and yet we have this massive surplus savings. We're still spending the same amount as a decade ago but our lifestyle has just naturally improved by prioritizing spending and not replacing perfectly functioning items. I have a hard time imagining significantly improving our lifesytle even if we were to double our spending.

Discovering MMM just made me realize that if we are spending $40k we don't need to save $3 million to retire, haha. Also pointed me in the right direction to learn about the stock market and index funds which led to me finally feeling comfortable with investing.

[SquashingDebt]

I picked the middle option but my situation is more or less the same as @Malcat - I found MMM while trying to figure out what a 401k was so I could fully evaluate the benefits of different job offers as I was exiting grad school.  So, right before my income more than doubled.  It helped me only inflate my lifestyle just a bit over my grad student lifestyle instead of splurging on things I didn't really need.  Now it feels easy - I spend on pretty much everything I want (which isn't that much) and still save 50% or more of my take-home.

[NotJen]

One thing I often wonder: Do most people find FIRE easy or hard? I see a lot of people talk about how it requires a lot of work, time, and discipline, but that hasn't been my experience at all. And I make way less money than everyone else here. I would do a poll, but I'd have no idea how to word it or what the options would be.

I think it just depends on your personality.  FIRE always aligned with my financial values, even though I didn't know I wanted to retire early for a long time.  Never getting into much debt for long, always spending way less than I made, investing young, evaluating expenses, etc.  I also was never inclined to be attached to / defined by a job title, and in the end it made walking away from a career that wasn't working for me pretty easy.  So yes, I found it all easy once I knew it was what I wanted.  Also, not having kids and getting a finance-neutral divorce made it WAAAY easier.

[Cranky]

None of the above - I’ve always been frugal, I’ve never had a big income, my whole family has been thrifty, and FIRE has never been our goal.

[Steeze]

I was already not spending much from growing up poor, being a ski bum, and getting in a ton of student debt. I still thought investing=day trading though, and retirement required 40 years and several million, or a real estate empire. My intentions were to get rich and have a flashy lifestyle after doing so.

MMM opened my eyes to the 4% rule, investment order, tax optimization, asset allocation, withdrawal strategies, and broad index funds. He taught me that SUVs and other luxuries were dumb. He showed me that I only really need around 1.5mm and I can save that in 13 years (9 to go).

Now ERE is showing me the environmentalism and minimalism aspect, and that I should be frugal not just for FI/RE but to just reduce consumption in general. High savings rate is just the result of trying to live efficiently and low impact. This has shown me that I probably only need around 1MM and I can do that in 8 years (4 to go)

Maybe as I go further down the rabbit hole I will find out I can and should spend even less. My life is still awash in wastefulness and convenience. Not to mention the prospect of being able to live in cheaper places in the world instead of in the US.

ETA: is it hard to adopt this lifestyle?

I honestly couldn’t think of living any other way at this point, so on a personal level it is very easy. The only difficulty for me is being more patient and trying to be content with the journey rather than focusing on the arbitrary destination.

[Zikoris]

Now ERE is showing me the environmentalism and minimalism aspect, and that I should be frugal not just for FI/RE but to just reduce consumption in general. High savings rate is just the result of trying to live efficiently and low impact. This has shown me that I probably only need around 1MM and I can do that in 8 years (4 to go)

We very quickly came to the same conclusion. Our 60-70% savings rate happens as a natural side effect of our lifestyle preferences - when you build your life around minimalism, low waste, and overall sustainability, you end up spending hardly anything. Examples:

• Trying to avoid packaging and plastic generally means buying secondhand or getting stuff for free from a Buy Nothing group, which happens to be cheap/free
• Eating low waste (both food itself and packaging) mostly eliminates things like convenience foods and takeout, which in conveniently a much cheaper way to eat. It's even cheaper if you focus on keeping stuff out of the landfill, and buying stuff that's heavily marked down because it's ugly or close to expiry. Also, eliminating animal products is a hella cheap way to eat, in addition to being very eco-friendly
• When you like the look and feel of a minimalist home, you're naturally less likely to buy stuff, especially impulse stuff.

[Metalcat]

After thinking about it for a bit, Mustachianism has had a huge impact on my lifestyle, but kind of in a counter intuitive way.

Until I decided that my optimal life was a relatively inexpensive one, I would have never given myself permission to cut my hours and focus on lifestyle so early in my career.

I'm now deciding between two future career paths, and heavily leaning towards the one that pays very, very poorly (less than a fifth of the other), because it's more interesting, and because I can.

Realizing that I don't need much money freed me up to never worry about making much money, even when I could.

[use2betrix]

I have never been frugal and I’m still not frugal. I spent well over $100k last year (we did replace 2 vehicles). We’ve spent around $100k/yr the last few years.

MMM still has caused me to be less of a spendthrift than I would be otherwise. My savings/investments are still up over $300k in the last 13 months

We’re on a good path that I’m happy about.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

One thing I often wonder: Do most people find FIRE easy or hard? I see a lot of people talk about how it requires a lot of work, time, and discipline, but that hasn't been my experience at all.

I can't imagine anything other than being frugal prior to being FI, especially if you hate your job. 

I found MMM when I was near FI, so the closest option would be 'I found my tribe'.  But since then, I've become obese-FI and meh on ER, so I can't say I've learned any tricks toward optimization.  Quite the opposite actually, I'm working hard at loosening my death-grip on the purse strings and appreciate my job more than ever during this pandemic.  I like to ride my bike, but just for fun and exercise.  I still really love the forum, but I lurk more nowadays since I no longer feel inspirational to those on the hunt for the promised land.  FI is great, don't get me wrong, but I've been there so long that I probably take it for granted way more than I should.

[Villanelle]

I'd say I'm somewhere in between " I made small changes over time that are barely noticeable, just optimized my priorities." AND "I was already on track financially, but hadn't really thought about the destination."

The biggest thing for me from MMM is the shockingly simple math.  I had NO idea how much we needed, and that was a source of anxiety.  Intuitively, I understood that basing a number on salary didn't make sense because clearly two people with the same salary would have very different financial needs in retirement.  But I didn't know how to come up with a realistic number.   I was imagining needing $4-5m, based on various online calculators.  But that also felt like I wild stab in the dark.  Again, it was a source of significant anxiety because I had no idea of we were on track to ever retire. 

I've made a few adjustments, but the biggest one is just the mentality of knowing about what we need, and that we are well on track fo have that.  I don't think my life changed much, nor did my spending or priorities, but small things probably shifted. 

[Icecreamarsenal]

I'm a natural spender.  This forum has had a big impact on my spending, but I tend to slide back regularly into consumerism and really hamper my progress towards FIRE.

[jeninco]

After thinking about it for a bit, Mustachianism has had a huge impact on my lifestyle, but kind of in a counter intuitive way.

Until I decided that my optimal life was a relatively inexpensive one, I would have never given myself permission to cut my hours and focus on lifestyle so early in my career.

I'm now deciding between two future career paths, and heavily leaning towards the one that pays very, very poorly (less than a fifth of the other), because it's more interesting, and because I can.

Realizing that I don't need much money freed me up to never worry about making much money, even when I could.

Ironically, I just agreed to do some work at 1/5 of my usual rate, because it's with people I like, the work seems interesting, and it'll set me up to do more work in an area that's quite different from what I've been doing the past 25 years of so. If I enjoy it, that is.

[Metalcat]

After thinking about it for a bit, Mustachianism has had a huge impact on my lifestyle, but kind of in a counter intuitive way.

Until I decided that my optimal life was a relatively inexpensive one, I would have never given myself permission to cut my hours and focus on lifestyle so early in my career.

I'm now deciding between two future career paths, and heavily leaning towards the one that pays very, very poorly (less than a fifth of the other), because it's more interesting, and because I can.

Realizing that I don't need much money freed me up to never worry about making much money, even when I could.

Ironically, I just agreed to do some work at 1/5 of my usual rate, because it's with people I like, the work seems interesting, and it'll set me up to do more work in an area that's quite different from what I've been doing the past 25 years of so. If I enjoy it, that is.

Some of my favourite work has been unpaid or poorly paid. I had 2-3 side hustles running when I was working and one was barely compensated but I absolutely loved it.

We're pretty much LeanFI, and I intend to work for many more years, but only doing work that's really meaningful to me. So I really don't need to make much for us to be very comfortable, which means I can do whatever work I want to.

[Linea_Norway]

I answered finding my tribe and learning a few tricks.
Since we moved to Norway, we have always been able to save about 50K euro a year. Once DH and I discussed what we could do with that much money and he suggested retiring at 50. I still had no idea how much we would need for that, as we didn't track our spending. Manybears later we lost focus. We we still frugal, but bought a clown house that we pays cash for by selling all our index funds. Stupid, in retrospect. But within a year time I googled early retirement and found MMM. I really liked his direct style with how simple it is to be frugal and to invest smartly. I started to optimize our already frugal spendings and tracking my expenses. And in time I found out how to calculate how much we needed to FIRE. As we already have saved up an official pension which is high enough to live off, we need less than 25 x expenses. When we found out that we were so close, we were motivated to sell the clown house again and downsize in order to live of that saved money.

It was amazing to find out that we aren't the only frugal wierdo's. Here we have a whole site of more or less likeminded people. And I have learned a few tricks as well, like tracking expenses, the 4% rule, credit card bonus stuff, plus much more. In later years I have also become a lot more familiar than I use to be with second hand buying and selling. Now that is our normal situation. That is not only due to MMM, but also to much more environmental awareness. But being environmental as well as being frugal fits very well together, as long as we don't spend all our excess time on many long flights.

[FireLane]

I voted for "small changes over time," but I could have voted for "already on track financially." Both describe my situation about equally well.

I like to think I'm a natural Mustachian who never knew it (that was the original title of my journal). Even before I knew about FIRE, I bought a small condo and a midrange non-luxury car, both less than I could have afforded, just because I instinctively disliked the idea of being so deep in debt I'd never dig out. I was also building up a sizable cash savings. I've never felt a desire to spend excessively - I can't take credit for that, it just seems to be how I'm wired.

The part that escaped me was the "shockingly simple math" and the 4% rule. Once I knew that early retirement was possible, I started to focus on building up investments. I also cook at home more and track my spending more carefully than I used to.

Other than that, I haven't made any significant lifestyle changes. I still live in the same condo and drive the same car!

[TheFrenchCat]

I chose already on track because our spending was already pretty low and there wasn't a ton to cut when I found MMM.  But I hadn't thought much about the implications of investing, even though I was doing it.  Also, now I'm more motivated to work more hours and am considering trying to move to a more lucrative career once my daughter's older in order to speed things up (the flexibility of my current job is invaluable as the primary caretaker).  That said, I don't yet know what I'd want to do in retirement, so I'm not in a big rush.

[AO1FireTo]

I've always been interested in money, saving, investing and would read anything I could on the subject.  When I found MMM, I was hooked.  It kind of tied together all the books that I had been reading into a plan and a lifestyle.  I had just been working and saving, I didn't have a target, or even an inclination that I could actually retire early.  It was nice to find my tribe.

[Kazyan]

It's hard for me to answer that question, since I found MMM before getting into my proper career path, but "already on track" is close. I had a pre-MMM period of intern-like jobs where I e.g. blew money on a weekly Buffalo Wild Wings visit, but I have always been able to save significant money. MMM has allowed me to optimize that. Now that I have ~median income, I could probably leanFIRE when I'm 34 years old, but given expected increases in health costs, 35-36 may be more realistic.

One thing I often wonder: Do most people find FIRE easy or hard? I see a lot of people talk about how it requires a lot of work, time, and discipline, but that hasn't been my experience at all. And I make way less money than everyone else here. I would do a poll, but I'd have no idea how to word it or what the options would be.

Sort of hard, but only because I'm making it hard? Saving money is easy for me; aggressively saving lots of money isn't.

Strangely, FIRE-adjacent communities are the ones giving me the most peer pressure to spend; it seems like the value of a dollar is much lower for most of the participants than it is for me. Additionally, knowing that I'm still in the wage cage for 6 more years, and that income increases won't affect that very much due to the math, is unsatisfying. Optimizing money moves is also kind of a source of stress, and I frequently check my bills to see if there's a less expensive method (but haven't figured it out, except maybe something with that fancy margin loan tech that MMM mentioned).

[Imma]

I only made a few small changes here and there, some of which I would have done regardless, like looking for a better job. Honestly, the only two things that come to mind are finding a cheaper cell phone plan when my contract expired, and cutting my weekly organic/local home grocery delivery service. Otherwise for me it was really just a case of going from poverty-level wages to average wages, while keeping my spending the same, and then investing the difference. It was all shockingly easy, to be honest.

One thing I often wonder: Do most people find FIRE easy or hard? I see a lot of people talk about how it requires a lot of work, time, and discipline, but that hasn't been my experience at all. And I make way less money than everyone else here. I would do a poll, but I'd have no idea how to word it or what the options would be.

I think we are both in similar situations: we weren't used to much and we started young.  So we never had to do much adapting. Our lives just stayed the same while our income increased. We are absolutely not as far along on the FI path as you guys but we already have so much more money we ever expected to have. I feel like I'm swimming in money like Scrooge McDuck.

On the other hand we have an old friend who is very angry at the world all the time because he can't afford to live the life his parents lived in the 70s even though he has a similar job. It's hard for him to adapt to a normal middle class life, I can't even imagine how difficult frugality would be. We are already a lot richer than our parents ever were.

[hudsoncat]

I think I could have selected any of the middle three options though none fit exactly.

We hadn't let lifestyle creep up much from graduate school because we are both naturally frugal. My spouse is debt averse and convinced me to focus hard on paying off my student loans. After a few years of focused loan repayment we were coming to the end about the time that both our incomes were also increasing. Which left us looking at having a good amount of excess cash. I found MMM while trying to figure out what to do with it... so we funneled the debt repayment into retirement and have continued to up savings as our incomes have increased.

I will say that our lifestyle has also increased... but not because we are spending a ton more, we're just more focused on what really brings us joy. It felt like while I was repaying student loans, I was SO FOCUSED on every penny to make sure none were wasted. The more balanced approach I found here from many posters helped us to think critically and be more intentional about what we spend.

[poetdereves]

I chose massive overhaul, but not necessarily because I already had the huge house and boat and sports car, but because I was only 20 years old when I started reading MMM and other personal finance blogs over ten years ago. I came from a below poverty line family, so we didn't have many material things, but we didn't have any extra money either. My dad was the first one of our family to ever finish high school, and he graduated college in his late 30s (one year before I started college myself), so the bar was not set very high. I had no idea about savings, taxes, or interest, had never heard of a 401k, index funds, FIRE, or anything else related to personal finance. The most financial education I had before this site was the check book register my mom gave me when I opened my first checking account at 16 when I started working at Subway. She showed me that the income was a plus, the things I spent were a minus, and that it's not a good idea to go below zero or you pay fees. That is it.

I can guarantee that if I hadn't found this site I would be "living it up", burdened by debt, and purchasing everything I want on credit. I found this site when I realized that I had worked back to back to back restaurant and janitor jobs that I hated and couldn't imagine working my whole life for such measly money. I realized early on, before I bought a big house or a car on credit, that there was another way. Luckily, my girlfriend at the time (now DW) was on board and we have done our best to make good choices that have mostly been presented by MMM himself and the other wise souls on this forum. We did have some college debt for both of our Bachelor's and advanced degrees, but we have bought a modest house with a 20% down payment, used cars, and been pretty frugal in the big areas of life that end up costing people years and years of their life working to pay it down.

Now that I am 30, married, and working in a career I enjoy I am thankful for the past ten years of teaching I've had from this site. I am set up to be FI in an accelerated amount of time compared to the average person and will get to do whatever I want with my time soon enough. This is massively different from the life I would be living if I hadn't stumbled upon MMM.

[nessa]

I have definitely found my 'tribe' - all the basics I knew and had implemented some (sinking funds, tracking every dollar spent for Value) but until 2018 I really didn't see how Financial Independence could be part of my life. Finding you all and seeing index funds as an alterative to YMOYL's federal bonds has given me the pieces I need to move forward.

[GuitarStv]

I've always been cheap, so there weren't too many money saving tips that rocked my world.  I had never really considered that tight-assedness could pay off in spare time/early retirement and just expected to work miserably until 55 though.

[joemandadman189]

i picked "I made small changes over time that led to my life looking very different." i found the site in 2017, and at that time we had no real financial plan or goals, and our finances were meh. we made some big early changes in that year or two, paid off some credit card debt aggressively before the birth of a second child, increased our 401k savings to reach the max. i  didn't "upgrade" a perfectly good car which i, pre 2017 would have. We initially took advantage of the low hanging fruit and that had a big impact on putting us in a much better place. we could and should optimize more, daycare going away over the next few years will create a huge pile of money to turbo charge progress.

I am so incredibly grateful to have stumbled upon MMM (via the Tim Ferriss podcast) our financial lives would be quite different today with out that chance encounter.

[ChickenStash]

I'm in the "small changes, barely noticeable" group. I've never been one to spend money frivolously on the normal things society expects like big houses or swapping fancy cars every few years. I had always saved a decent amount for retirement according to the usual media so I figured I was doing OK.

The big thing I learned here was the whole "simple math" thing about how much is really needed to pull the plug. Up to that point it had never occurred to me that I could actually save up enough to retire early. I had always assumed I was stuck in the rat race until SS kicks in - its just they way things are done. The actual life changes I made really aren't all that noticeable. I still have the same house and the same cars and all that jazz but somehow my savings rate went up about 4x. Some is due to new jobs earning more but most is just simply not spending money on things that don't actually move me forward.

Kinda funny. I stumbled on this forum while searching for some obscure info on 401k rollovers. I chuckled at the whole Mr. Money Mustache banner - what kind of weird kink is this now? Curiosity go the better of me and I hit the blogs where I found the "simple math".

[phildonnia]

Thanks for this poll.  I had assumed that I was in the minority: people who have really been living this way their entire lives, and stumbled across a community that thinks that's ok.  But I see that's actually the most common response.

[E.T.]

I picked massive overhaul because MMM changed my life significantly but the option doesn't quite describe me since I lived a pretty frugal life pre-MMM. It was a massive overhaul because I knew absolutely nothing about finances and found MMM in my search to try and figure out how to be an adult with money when I got my first job that covered more than just my student loans and rent. So it was a major knowledge overhaul, not necessarily a change to my spending tendencies.

[Bradlinc4]

Thanks for this poll.  I had assumed that I was in the minority: people who have really been living this way their entire lives, and stumbled across a community that thinks that's ok.  But I see that's actually the most common response.

I was disappointed by the results of this poll. I was hoping that the MMM methodology would have a more profound effect on changing peoples behavior.

[Metalcat]

Thanks for this poll.  I had assumed that I was in the minority: people who have really been living this way their entire lives, and stumbled across a community that thinks that's ok.  But I see that's actually the most common response.

I was disappointed by the results of this poll. I was hoping that the MMM methodology would have a more profound effect on changing peoples behavior.

Well, there's a huge selection bias that the kind of people who are going to read MMM *and* participate in the forums are more likely to be the more entrenched folks looking for similar people.

I'm not at all disappointed or surprised by the results. I wouldn't expect the bulk of people who find MMM to be true spendy pants types, more the already frugal/frugal curious types.

I'm guessing a Dave Ramsey poll would show something different because it's indebted spendy pants who seek him out.

[joemandadman189]

Thanks for this poll.  I had assumed that I was in the minority: people who have really been living this way their entire lives, and stumbled across a community that thinks that's ok.  But I see that's actually the most common response.

I was disappointed by the results of this poll. I was hoping that the MMM methodology would have a more profound effect on changing peoples behavior.

The small changes we made have had a huge/profound impact on our lives, so maybe i should have picked that option

[Zikoris]

Thanks for this poll.  I had assumed that I was in the minority: people who have really been living this way their entire lives, and stumbled across a community that thinks that's ok.  But I see that's actually the most common response.

I was disappointed by the results of this poll. I was hoping that the MMM methodology would have a more profound effect on changing peoples behavior.

I think for a lot of us there just wasn't really anything much TO change. Most people who are big spenders/consumers are not going to all of sudden stop consuming because they read a hippy blog. Which is too bad, because they should and they're killing us all with their overconsumption, but it is what it is.

[Steeze]

I think it is really surprising how many people DONT find MMM appealing. Seems so obvious to me. I have shown about a dozen people the MMM blog and approximately zero have ever spoken to me about it again. And these were people I though had a decent chance at understanding and executing the principles.

[Kris]

I think it is really surprising how many people DONT find MMM appealing. Seems so obvious to me. I have shown about a dozen people the MMM blog and approximately zero have ever spoken to me about it again. And these were people I though had a decent chance at understanding and executing the principles.

I think a whole lot of people are very uncomfortable with the idea of not organizing their lives around acquisitiveness and materialism. Like, if your goals for the future didn't involve progressively bigger houses, nicer stuff, pretty things... what would you even do with your time??? For some, contemplating that is sort of like staring into the void.

[RainyDay]

Well, there's a huge selection bias that the kind of people who are going to read MMM *and* participate in the forums are more likely to be the more entrenched folks looking for similar people.

I'm not at all disappointed or surprised by the results. I wouldn't expect the bulk of people who find MMM to be true spendy pants types, more the already frugal/frugal curious types.

I'm guessing a Dave Ramsey poll would show something different because it's indebted spendy pants who seek him out.

Can I just say that I love this phrase?

[RainyDay]

I think it is really surprising how many people DONT find MMM appealing. Seems so obvious to me. I have shown about a dozen people the MMM blog and approximately zero have ever spoken to me about it again. And these were people I though had a decent chance at understanding and executing the principles.

Same here.  I think there's a basic unwillingness to make "sacrifices," even very small ones.  A friend of mine complained about her credit card debt (around $9000, so a lot, but not a massive amount), and I sent her a link to a couple MMM articles about debt.  But she wasn't willing to make even small changes.  For instance, rather than buying beer at 7-11 four times a week, cut your consumption just a bit and make ONE trip to Aldi.  Rather than eating out 4 times a week (pre-COVID), eat out twice a week.  Her cable bill was $250/month, but she wasn't willing to cut a single service. 

[Rhinodad]

I voted the small changes over time...but like all things like that, has compounded making some big changes. The power of compounding is just amazing.

I think the thing for us is seeing how easy it really is. We weren't huge spenders before, but started optimizing what and how we did spend. So we went from things like eating out 1x per week, to 1x per month. We decided to buy nothing unless we had a gift card for it (double edge...took the impulse buy out, but we were also then able to get discounted gift cards, use cash back sites, coupons, etc).

That cascaded into learning more about small steps to leverage some of our frugality and good fortune (Tradelines, credit card churn, bank account bonuses, etc.). From that, we were able to max out both of our 403B's...and being both 50, that went from contributing say $25k/yr including the match up to 60K/yr including the match, max out our Roths, have an after tax account, and our now starting to see our retirement accounts growing at an incredibly rapid rate...which brings the FI part closer and closer. We went from thinking that we would retire at 67 (our full retirement age),and having a decent nest egg, to perhaps retiring around 55...with a nice nest egg...and whether we would still work, but take more time off...still to say, but the options will be there.

[NorthernMonkey]

Her cable bill was $250/month, but she wasn't willing to cut a single service.

$250 to watch TV blows my mind.

[Zikoris]

I think it is really surprising how many people DONT find MMM appealing. Seems so obvious to me. I have shown about a dozen people the MMM blog and approximately zero have ever spoken to me about it again. And these were people I though had a decent chance at understanding and executing the principles.

Same here.  I think there's a basic unwillingness to make "sacrifices," even very small ones.  A friend of mine complained about her credit card debt (around $9000, so a lot, but not a massive amount), and I sent her a link to a couple MMM articles about debt.  But she wasn't willing to make even small changes.  For instance, rather than buying beer at 7-11 four times a week, cut your consumption just a bit and make ONE trip to Aldi.  Rather than eating out 4 times a week (pre-COVID), eat out twice a week.  Her cable bill was $250/month, but she wasn't willing to cut a single service.

I'm often surprised when people won't even cut the things that they don't care about and don't even improve their lives. I totally get it keeping things you enjoy, but people pay for stuff like subscriptions they don't even use, or pay a premium for something at one store when it would be just as easy to get it at another store (like the 7-11 versus Aldi situation). I would guess it's probably more of an emotional thing than anything.

[SwordGuy]

We changed a lot.  We upped our savings rate from 25% to 67% and started a rental home business.   

It was easy to make rapid improvement because we had already paid off all debt (including our house) and we had a very good income.

[snowball]

I think it is really surprising how many people DONT find MMM appealing. Seems so obvious to me. I have shown about a dozen people the MMM blog and approximately zero have ever spoken to me about it again. And these were people I though had a decent chance at understanding and executing the principles.

Yes.  I think spending time on the forums makes this all seem much more normal than it is.  I haven't even really tried to sell people on MMM, but I've talked to several - selected! - people about investing or early retirement.  They had all previously expressed some level of interest/enthusiasm, which already sets them apart from the crowd, and they all said they intended to start investing.  Out of that group, one single person has gone ahead and actually opened an investment account.  And the others have had years to do it.

I did send them all a link to the Shockingly Simple Math article, because that's the post that really made me re-evaluate my life.  I don't think any of them read it, even the one who started investing.  It is very clear that I'm the abnormal one in all this, and what works to convince me is not what would work for most people, lol.

And change seems incredibly hard for a lot of people.