Millennials Buying Tiny Condos

[fitfrugalfab]

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/29/wooing-millennials-to-buy-condos-really-tiny-condos.html

Interesting read. My DH and I fit the bill on this one since we just closed on a 530 sq. ft condo 2 weeks ago.

[zephyr911]

DW and I aren't millennials and "only" downsized from 1900sf to 1144, but we view this as an intermediate step. We are looking to get our needs into the 6-800SF range since our next move will probably be to a higher-COL area and it'd be cool to keep our housing cost in the same ballpark.
I don't think this trend is inherently generational - the Tiny House groups I follow include people of all ages, many retired. But it may come more naturally to Millennials since many never accumulated the giant piles of crap some older people have.

[Can't Wait]

The wife and I had a place that was a 700 sq. ft. 1 BR and I hated it. We didn't even have a lot of stuff but it just felt cramped and tiny. You could hear when your neighbors had relations, flushed the toilet, came home from work, played music, etc. all the things that come along with apartment/condo living. We are millennials and this lifestyle is not appealing to us at all.

I'll take my 2000 sq. ft. house with a garage, deck, and quiet neighborhood any day over a 400 sq. ft. studio condo. We can actually have our parents or friends stay over and have people over to watch the game or whatever. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

I also grew up in the suburbs so maybe it's just ingrained in my mind to prefer that lifestyle.

[Lis]

The wife and I had a place that was a 700 sq. ft. 1 BR and I hated it. We didn't even have a lot of stuff but it just felt cramped and tiny.

Layout is hugely important with smaller spaces. I rented a 650 sq ft apartment and I thought it was terribly tiny. My new apartment is 700 sq ft, and it feels much, much larger. Even so, I have plenty of ideas how I would make my apartment seem even bigger if I could. A friend of mine rents a 1 bedroom that's nearly 1100 sq feet, and I like my space much better.

I don't mind a small space for just me and my cats. I think my current place would be okay with a partner, but if I was to bring a dog or child into the equation I'd want to bump it up a bit.

[bacchi]

Over $900/foot! Is DC that expensive?

[DagobertDuck]

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/29/wooing-millennials-to-buy-condos-really-tiny-condos.html

That means prices will rise.
Which sucks, since I'm renting right now.

[zephyr911]

Over $900/foot! Is DC that expensive?

$/SF can be tremendously deceptive, and these homes - outliers in terms of size - are a perfect illustration of that. The "lot" value of a condo for a given spot will be essentially fixed regardless of size, so $/SF will be higher for smaller units and lower for big ones.

[YK-Phil]

I am not exactly a Millennial, but my wife and I live in a 700 sq.ft. downtown condo, 2 bedrooms 2 bathrooms, and we love it. We don't even use the second bedroom and bathroom, and we still find we have ample space for all our things. We are soon moving into a "huge" 400 sq.ft. tiny house on an acreage, but most of our time will be spent outdoors, on the large deck, gardening, sailing, kayaking and other good things.

[mozar]

The wife and I had a place that was a 700 sq. ft. 1 BR and I hated it. We didn't even have a lot of stuff but it just felt cramped and tiny. You could hear when your neighbors had relations, flushed the toilet, came home from work, played music, etc. all the things that come along with apartment/condo living. We are millennials and this lifestyle is not appealing to us at all.

Most millennials (60%) agree with you. Most millennials actually live in the suburbs. As the woman said in the article, it's mostly downsizing baby boomers who are buying, with millennials seriously "looking."

I'm a millenial and I could probably live some place smaller than my 920 sq ft townhouse in the suburbs, but I choose not to. No amount of trendy restaurants could convince me to move back to DC.

[use2betrix]

I am 27 and have lived full time in a 42' 5th wheel for the last 2.5 years. It has a 12' garage in the rear for storage, so I'm really living in a 30'x8' place, plus 3 slides. So I'm at maybe 300 square ft of living space + storage?


What's funny is all the truck bashing around here, yet it's totally acceptable to live in a way larger house than they really need.

[music lover]

What's funny is all the truck bashing around here, yet it's totally acceptable to live in a way larger house than they really need.

Or, take a flight half way around the world for a 2 week vacation...

[zephyr911]

I am not exactly a Millennial, but my wife and I live in a 700 sq.ft. downtown condo, 2 bedrooms 2 bathrooms, and we love it. We don't even use the second bedroom and bathroom, and we still find we have ample space for all our things. We are soon moving into a "huge" 400 sq.ft. tiny house on an acreage, but most of our time will be spent outdoors, on the large deck, gardening, sailing, kayaking and other good things.

That sounds like f'ing paradise. Can I come? ;)

[aspiringnomad]

The development pictured in the article is right around the corner from me - didn't realize the units were particularly small there. I appreciate the small living trend for its somewhat Mustachian qualities, but think DC might be overbuilding these tiny condos and not supplying enough 2-3 bedroom units for the many families looking to stick around. Oh well, if that's the case, I suppose the market will eventually signal it.

[sirdoug007]

$750/sqft is exactly why I moved to Texas in 2006 and is in no way mustacian.

I'm sure the developers are ecstatic that people will pay these prices.


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[YK-Phil]

I am not exactly a Millennial, but my wife and I live in a 700 sq.ft. downtown condo, 2 bedrooms 2 bathrooms, and we love it. We don't even use the second bedroom and bathroom, and we still find we have ample space for all our things. We are soon moving into a "huge" 400 sq.ft. tiny house on an acreage, but most of our time will be spent outdoors, on the large deck, gardening, sailing, kayaking and other good things.

That sounds like f'ing paradise. Can I come? ;)

The Gulf Islands are indeed paradise, with a mild Mediterrannean climate and sparsely populated by a mix of old/young hippies, active seniors and organic farmers. My 24-year old daughter lives there and while she makes a meagre $13/hr as a divemaster for a scuba dive shop, she spends her free time diving, sailing, kayaking, biking, hiking, etc. Yesterday, she went scuba diving and encountered a dozen sea lions and 3 orcas. I often tease her that I hope my retirement will be as exciting as hers. A few other Mustachians including Jon_Snow who is on another island south of where we are, are in that area. They already had a get-together but I missed it by a few days. My plan, after we build our own cabin, is to set up a smaller cabin or RV for visiting Mustachians. All will be welcome!

[tooqk4u22]

This is a great practice that I highly encourage millenials to do.....buy small ridiculously overpriced apartment because it is tiny/green/efficient they can't afford anything bigger (this generation isn't as different from others as much as the press thinks they are - its reaction to circumstance not proaction).  Then when they start to cohabitate with signifcant others and desire to have/adopt kids or compete with others that are getting more there will be a glut of these things when I am ready to downsize and buy/rent one on the cheap..

Please please please increase demand temporarily and cause overbuilding of these units...I will appreciate it very much.

[zephyr911]

$750/sqft is exactly why I moved to Texas in 2006 and is in no way mustacian.

Beware of oversimplification.
Paying $750/sf for a small, efficient space close to lucrative employment could be Mustachian as hell, especially if the long-term outlook for property value in the area were good. That place could actually be more Mustachian than MMM's home, which even he says is kind of a ridiculous indulgence.

The Gulf Islands are indeed paradise...

You mean these Gulf Islands?

[sirdoug007]

$750/sqft is exactly why I moved to Texas in 2006 and is in no way mustachian.

Beware of oversimplification.
Paying $750/sf for a small, efficient space close to lucrative employment could be Mustachian as hell, especially if the long-term outlook for property value in the area were good. That place could actually be more Mustachian than MMM's home, which even he says is kind of a ridiculous indulgence.

Mustachian would be getting an apartment for around $1000/month a few metro stops away from the ridiculous Adam's Morgan area and saving the $1000+/month difference in your retirement accounts.

[YK-Phil]

The Gulf Islands are indeed paradise...

You mean these Gulf Islands?

Yes, these islands! When i first visited "our" little island, I found out many people grew figs and some types of citrus there, on top of whatever other fruits and vegetable they grow. And when it snows, if it does at all, it lasts only a few days, not more. Until that first visit, I was absolutely sure I would spend my retirement years in Spain or Thailand. Not anymore. On my last visit, my wife and I even wondered if we would ever want to leave the island more than a few months in a year.

[zephyr911]

Mustachian would be getting an apartment for around $1000/month a few metro stops away from the ridiculous Adam's Morgan area and saving the $1000+/month difference in your retirement accounts.

If I paid $750/sf for a 300sf condo with 20% down, the same $1k/mo would pay the $180K mortgage, AND I'd save the commuting time.

I'm not saying I'd want one of these condos; I'm just making the point that there's no blanket answer on $750/sf being Mustachian. There is a whole host of factors that determine whether it's a good investment. The recent blog entry on Toronto's price/rent mismatch is relevant here, as are the various references to what is/isn't a good HCOL city scenario for FIRE.

Yes, these islands! When i first visited "our" little island, I found out many people grew figs and some types of citrus there, on top of whatever other fruits and vegetable they grow. And when it snows, if it does at all, it lasts only a few days, not more. Until that first visit, I was absolutely sure I would spend my retirement years in Spain or Thailand. Not anymore. On my last visit, my wife and I even wondered if we would ever want to leave the island more than a few months in a year.

Shit! We should keep in touch - I have family in the San Juans and Whidbey is Plan A for our FIRE location. I've been salivating over the exploration prospects of the region, having scratched the surface just enough (during my college years in Seattle, and later visits) to want more.

[nereo]

...anyone else bothered by how many times she said "teeny-tiny" and "micro" in the video?  Sure, it's very small compared to a suburban home designed for 4-5 people, but that's apples-to-oranges.  Check out the urban studio apartments all over the world (e.g. Japan, Hong Kong, London) and these don't seem all that out of place, or even all that tiny.  That fridge is far larger than what you'd find in most family homes throughout the world, and it's in an apartment designed for 1-2 people.

Also agree that layout is incredibly important.  I've lived on research boats with 7 other people for months at a time and they can feel less cramped than many 1000sqft+ apartments I've shared with just one or two other people.

[partgypsy]

I don't see why something with small square footage is necessarily mustachian. I don't think I would ever pay 700 a square foot living expenses unless something went terribly wrong with my plans.

[zephyr911]

I don't see why something with small square footage is necessarily mustachian.

It's not necessarily one or the other. It's about what meets your needs the most efficiently. MMM suggests HCOL city living is worthwhile if you can live well and still have a high SR.

I don't think I would ever pay 700 a square foot living expenses unless something went terribly wrong with my plans.

I... genuinely cannot figure out what you're trying to say. If you wouldn't do it, why not? All this naysaying is based on assumptions, all of which must be questioned. What if all housing cost that much? What if you were offered a million dollars a year to do your current job in a place where this was typical? etc.

[Guses]

I would not do a tiny condo but I would do a tiny house though! Paying 750$/sqft is insane! That is like paying one month's rent for every square foot of your place!

I would really love to live in a tiny-ish house with a largish workshop next to it.

[mm1970]

I don't think I would ever pay 700 a square foot living expenses unless something went terribly wrong with my plans.

I remember thinking that way also, but that was based on where I grew up (rural Western PA).

Then I lived in DC awhile, and moved to Coastal So Cal.  Where a basic 1000-1100 sf starter home is about $700-725/sq foot.

Larger homes can be more or less, depending on how nice they are and where they are located.  For example, you can get a 2200 sf house for $700/sq foot (good condition) or $600/sq foot (needs work) or 900/sq foot (ocean view and/or good school district).

[nereo]

I would not do a tiny condo but I would do a tiny house though! Paying 750$/sqft is insane! That is like paying one month's rent for every square foot of your place!

I'm with Zypher911 on this one... whether it's 'insane' or not depends on all the other factors.  $750/sqft is fairly typical in a lot of HCOL urban markets which also tend to have very high-paying jobs.  If the rental market is correspondingly high it's all a wash.

I would really love to live in a tiny-ish house with a largish workshop next to it.

It's certainly possible!  Check out wood-working guilds in your area.  Many offer workshops (actual, physical workshops) that have more tools and space than any one personal is reasonably able to have in their own home.  It's a similar concept to the library.

[sirdoug007]

In this particular case it is helpful to understand DC neighborhoods.  Adam's Morgan is very "hip" and extremely expensive.

You do have options though.  You can easily commute on the great train system in DC (the Metro) from a much less expensive neighborhood and add just a few minutes to your commute.

Paying $750/sqft is paying to be in the heart of the cool restaurants and bars of DC.  Go a mile in any direction and I'm sure you can find more reasonable accommodations.  Or God forbid, move to Virginia or MD where taxes are much lower than DC!

Getting a small place is great, but not at these prices at this location.

[Can't Wait]

What's funny is all the truck bashing around here, yet it's totally acceptable to live in a way larger house than they really need.

My house in the suburbs was actually cheaper than what most people pay for a shoe box studio condo in DC. Even the "affordable" condos have insane condo fees that I don't think people are factoring in. Like $500-800 a month condo fees. Those condo fees are more than my mortgage, not including property taxes and insurance.

I spend less per month on my mortgage, car (paid off), gas, maintenance, and insurance than what people spend to live in a rat hole condo with no car. They can argue that everything is a 5 min walk away while I can argue that everything is a 5 min drive away. Tomato tomahto.

Getting a small place is great, but not at these prices at this location.

Amen.

[zephyr911]

I am 27 and have lived full time in a 42' 5th wheel for the last 2.5 years. It has a 12' garage in the rear for storage, so I'm really living in a 30'x8' place, plus 3 slides. So I'm at maybe 300 square ft of living space + storage?

Badass.

What's funny is all the truck bashing around here

Um, no. We bash the wasting of money on trucks that are not used for truckish purposes.

...yet it's totally acceptable to live in a way larger house than they really need.

Says who? I see comments daily about people spending too much on their houses.

Within a few months of showing up here, I downsized by 40%. MMM knocked a similar percentage off his living space in his last move.

Waste is waste. The operative principle is to minimize it, and focus it on things that really make you happy.

[fitfrugalfab]

In this particular case it is helpful to understand DC neighborhoods.  Adam's Morgan is very "hip" and extremely expensive.

You do have options though.  You can easily commute on the great train system in DC (the Metro) from a much less expensive neighborhood and add just a few minutes to your commute.

Paying $750/sqft is paying to be in the heart of the cool restaurants and bars of DC.  Go a mile in any direction and I'm sure you can find more reasonable accommodations.  Or God forbid, move to Virginia or MD where taxes are much lower than DC!

Getting a small place is great, but not at these prices at this location.

Agreed. Even though I posted this article our condo is 1 mile outside of DC in Virginia and cheaper than it would be if we lived in DV.

[obstinate]

$750/sqft is exactly why I moved to Texas in 2006 and is in no way mustacian.

I'm sure the developers are ecstatic that people will pay these prices.


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I don't agree. The job market in these high COL areas can compensate for high $/SQFT. You can't tell just from the price of something whether it's mustachian. You have to factor in its utility.

[fitfrugalfab]

$750/sqft is exactly why I moved to Texas in 2006 and is in no way mustacian.

I'm sure the developers are ecstatic that people will pay these prices.


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I don't agree. The job market in these high COL areas can compensate for high $/SQFT. You can't tell just from the price of something whether it's mustachian. You have to factor in its utility.

EXACTLY! That's like 60% of the reason why my DH and I have stayed in the area for now.

[fitfrugalfab]

$750/sqft is exactly why I moved to Texas in 2006 and is in no way mustachian.

Beware of oversimplification.
Paying $750/sf for a small, efficient space close to lucrative employment could be Mustachian as hell, especially if the long-term outlook for property value in the area were good. That place could actually be more Mustachian than MMM's home, which even he says is kind of a ridiculous indulgence.

Mustachian would be getting an apartment for around $1000/month a few metro stops away from the ridiculous Adam's Morgan area and saving the $1000+/month difference in your retirement accounts.

LMAO! Good luck finding a decent apartment for that price in this area. You clearly aren't familiar with the area.

[sirdoug007]

$750/sqft is exactly why I moved to Texas in 2006 and is in no way mustachian.

Beware of oversimplification.
Paying $750/sf for a small, efficient space close to lucrative employment could be Mustachian as hell, especially if the long-term outlook for property value in the area were good. That place could actually be more Mustachian than MMM's home, which even he says is kind of a ridiculous indulgence.

Mustachian would be getting an apartment for around $1000/month a few metro stops away from the ridiculous Adam's Morgan area and saving the $1000+/month difference in your retirement accounts.

LMAO! Good luck finding a decent apartment for that price in this area. You clearly aren't familiar with the area.

I grew up in the Maryland suburbs (from age 8 to 18) and lived in Northern VA for 4 years after college so I'm pretty familiar with the area.  I have friends that live all over the DC area, in the district, in MD and VA.

You can't get a $1k/month apartment in Adam's Morgan but you sure can in parts of Maryland and Virginia.  Here are 1739 listings: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/search/apa?max_price=1000

Like I said, paying these prices is not justified by a high salary when you can find a place a short bike ride from a metro stop that gets you to your super high paying job.

When I was in NOVA I shared an apartment with a friend and never paid over $800/month.  A friend of mine shared a three bedroom place at less than $500/month.  It can be done.  Exercise some badassity and save a shit load of money!

[zephyr911]

Exercise some badassity and save a shit load of money!

I doubt anyone here would argue with that. My objections and the others I saw were to a perceived oversimplification.

From a rational standpoint, no price is inherently good or bad, acceptable or not. The evaluation requires a holistic analysis that includes corresponding benefits. It would be right to say that an extremely high price would require extremely high benefits to justify it, but to merely assume that such benefits do not exist is unreasonable.

[fitfrugalfab]

$750/sqft is exactly why I moved to Texas in 2006 and is in no way mustachian.

Beware of oversimplification.
Paying $750/sf for a small, efficient space close to lucrative employment could be Mustachian as hell, especially if the long-term outlook for property value in the area were good. That place could actually be more Mustachian than MMM's home, which even he says is kind of a ridiculous indulgence.

Mustachian would be getting an apartment for around $1000/month a few metro stops away from the ridiculous Adam's Morgan area and saving the $1000+/month difference in your retirement accounts.

LMAO! Good luck finding a decent apartment for that price in this area. You clearly aren't familiar with the area.

I grew up in the Maryland suburbs (from age 8 to 18) and lived in Northern VA for 4 years after college so I'm pretty familiar with the area.  I have friends that live all over the DC area, in the district, in MD and VA.

You can't get a $1k/month apartment in Adam's Morgan but you sure can in parts of Maryland and Virginia.  Here are 1739 listings: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/search/apa?max_price=1000

Like I said, paying these prices is not justified by a high salary when you can find a place a short bike ride from a metro stop that gets you to your super high paying job.

When I was in NOVA I shared an apartment with a friend and never paid over $800/month.  A friend of mine shared a three bedroom place at less than $500/month.  It can be done.  Exercise some badassity and save a shit load of money!

Those listings are all for bedrooms. My DH and I sharing 530 sq. ft. with the expectancy of having kids very soon is badassity enough. I'm not raising a family in a bedroom.

[sirdoug007]

$750/sqft is exactly why I moved to Texas in 2006 and is in no way mustachian.

Beware of oversimplification.
Paying $750/sf for a small, efficient space close to lucrative employment could be Mustachian as hell, especially if the long-term outlook for property value in the area were good. That place could actually be more Mustachian than MMM's home, which even he says is kind of a ridiculous indulgence.

Mustachian would be getting an apartment for around $1000/month a few metro stops away from the ridiculous Adam's Morgan area and saving the $1000+/month difference in your retirement accounts.

LMAO! Good luck finding a decent apartment for that price in this area. You clearly aren't familiar with the area.

I grew up in the Maryland suburbs (from age 8 to 18) and lived in Northern VA for 4 years after college so I'm pretty familiar with the area.  I have friends that live all over the DC area, in the district, in MD and VA.

You can't get a $1k/month apartment in Adam's Morgan but you sure can in parts of Maryland and Virginia.  Here are 1739 listings: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/search/apa?max_price=1000

Like I said, paying these prices is not justified by a high salary when you can find a place a short bike ride from a metro stop that gets you to your super high paying job.

When I was in NOVA I shared an apartment with a friend and never paid over $800/month.  A friend of mine shared a three bedroom place at less than $500/month.  It can be done.  Exercise some badassity and save a shit load of money!

Those listings are all for bedrooms. My DH and I sharing 530 sq. ft. with the expectancy of having kids very soon is badassity enough. I'm not raising a family in a bedroom.

What do you think you are getting for $280k in Adam's Morgan?  A friggin' bedroom with a kitchen!

Here are the floor plans from the condo discussed in the article: http://www.ontario17.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Ontario-17-Studio-Floorplans.pdf

Oh and don't forget to factor in the $190/month condo fees, ~$200/month property taxes, 8.5% DC income tax (vs. 5.75 in VA and ~5 in MD), and 10% sales tax (vs. 6 in MD and VA) when considering this wonderful tiny home!

http://www.districtre.com/dc-development/nw-dc/adams-morgan/ontario-17/

[fitfrugalfab]

$750/sqft is exactly why I moved to Texas in 2006 and is in no way mustachian.

Beware of oversimplification.
Paying $750/sf for a small, efficient space close to lucrative employment could be Mustachian as hell, especially if the long-term outlook for property value in the area were good. That place could actually be more Mustachian than MMM's home, which even he says is kind of a ridiculous indulgence.

Mustachian would be getting an apartment for around $1000/month a few metro stops away from the ridiculous Adam's Morgan area and saving the $1000+/month difference in your retirement accounts.

LMAO! Good luck finding a decent apartment for that price in this area. You clearly aren't familiar with the area.

I grew up in the Maryland suburbs (from age 8 to 18) and lived in Northern VA for 4 years after college so I'm pretty familiar with the area.  I have friends that live all over the DC area, in the district, in MD and VA.

You can't get a $1k/month apartment in Adam's Morgan but you sure can in parts of Maryland and Virginia.  Here are 1739 listings: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/search/apa?max_price=1000

Like I said, paying these prices is not justified by a high salary when you can find a place a short bike ride from a metro stop that gets you to your super high paying job.

When I was in NOVA I shared an apartment with a friend and never paid over $800/month.  A friend of mine shared a three bedroom place at less than $500/month.  It can be done.  Exercise some badassity and save a shit load of money!

Those listings are all for bedrooms. My DH and I sharing 530 sq. ft. with the expectancy of having kids very soon is badassity enough. I'm not raising a family in a bedroom.

What do you think you are getting for $280k in Adam's Morgan?  A friggin' bedroom with a kitchen!

Here are the floor plans from the condo discussed in the article: http://www.ontario17.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Ontario-17-Studio-Floorplans.pdf

Oh and don't forget to factor in the $190/month condo fees, ~$200/month property taxes, 8.5% DC income tax (vs. 5.75 in VA and ~5 in MD), and 10% sales tax (vs. 6 in MD and VA) when considering this wonderful tiny home!

http://www.districtre.com/dc-development/nw-dc/adams-morgan/ontario-17/

If you actually read the posts that I was posting in this thread you would have noted that my condo is Arlington, which is in VA. I posted this article because it's interesting and in fact true. I live here and I can see the trend happening real time. I'm also extremely proud of the fact that I own a condo is VA. It's my first purchase and I'm in my young twenties and I couldn't be happier.

[ShortInSeattle]

We're Xers and bought a 450 square foot condo last year for about 300k in downtown Seattle. We have the same murphy bed shown in that video! It makes our studio work like a one bedroom.

Our decision was mostly financial, but the non-financial perks have been great too. We're in an amenity-rich building, we can walk everywhere, and our  housing costs are super-low. (HOA plus property taxes)  It feels nice to have less stuff to deal with. Lower costs + a cheaper house sped up our time to FI by about 5 years.

When we had a regular house we spent our weekends mowing lawns, cleaning, running to Home Depot, or doing Costco runs. These days we make coffee, walk or bus to a nearby park or festival, or hang out. We didn't really use our old dining room so we put in a "library" with a huge bookshelf and a comfy chair instead of a dining space.  Our coffee table lifts and expands to accommodate meals with friends. Life feels so much easier these days. We recently took the plunge and got rid of our car - we didn't need it any longer.

Probably the biggest mental shift was how we see "our home" as being our neighborhood, not just our little condo. Our gym, the library, coffee shops, parks... they all become part of where you live.

I don't think this situation would suit most people. But for a childfree couple it's been a really nice setup. If you lean towards minimalism and city life it's a great fit.

SIS

[zephyr911]

What do you think you are getting for $280k in Adam's Morgan?  A friggin' bedroom with a kitchen!

Bedrooms, as in a single room in a shared house. It's a meaningful distinction. Great for a single yuppie, not an option for a couple with a kid on the way.

[ShortInSeattle]

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/29/wooing-millennials-to-buy-condos-really-tiny-condos.html

Interesting read. My DH and I fit the bill on this one since we just closed on a 530 sq. ft condo 2 weeks ago.

Congrats on your new home! :)

[sirdoug007]

If you actually read the posts that I was posting in this thread you would have noted that my condo is Arlington, which is in VA. I posted this article because it's interesting and in fact true. I live here and I can see the trend happening real time. I'm also extremely proud of the fact that I own a condo is VA. It's my first purchase and I'm in my young twenties and I couldn't be happier.

I wasn't commenting on your condo in Arlington as I don't have any info on your condo.  I'm also not commenting on small condos in general.  Using the minimum amount of space you can handle is a great idea and saves tons of money!

I'm commenting on the idea that buying the particular small condo in the article in Adam's Morgan at 372 sq. ft and $280,000 could be construed as Mustachian.  My guess is that your condo in Arlington is a much better deal and there are many much better deals in the greater DC area.  Living in Adam's Morgan is the bay area equivalent of living in San Francisco.  There is no way around you are paying for close access to trendy restaurants and bars in this area.

Finally, congrats on your new condo!  Hope it works out great for you and your family.

[Jon_Snow]

Not a huge fan of "tiny" homes. Our city condo is about 900 sq feet, and our upcoming cabin build will be about the same, perhaps larger, especially if we use the land contours and put in a walk out basement. Gotta have a HUGE deck...we are very much "deck/patio people". :)

800 to 1000 square feet for two people feels "just right" to us. Luckily we bought our condo before shit got crazy in Vancouver. Bought our place in 2001 for 150k...and could sell it tomorrow for 350k...probably more.  Real estate has gone completely bonkers here and it looks set to continue - the oft predicted real estate correction/crash seems extremely reluctant to occur.

[bacchi]

The job market in these high COL areas can compensate for high $/SQFT. You can't tell just from the price of something whether it's mustachian. You have to factor in its utility.

It helps to make more money but only if you choose a smaller apartment and otherwise "downgrade" your life. The higher salaries rarely compensate for the usual cost of living increases. Use a city COL calculator -- would I really get paid $300k in NYC for the same title and responsibilities? No f'ing way.

This is also why the reverse is possible. Save a lot of money living frugally in HCOL and move to LCOL and get a nice place and live it up.

[stlbrah]

meh, the only small condos in my area are Wood construction, and ghetto.

I went for a 1400 sq foot condo. It is bigger than what I needed, but there really isn't anything smaller that is 'nice.' I would love to have a smaller condo - maybe 900-1000 sq ft, but they just don't exist in my area.

[aspiringnomad]

In this particular case it is helpful to understand DC neighborhoods.  Adam's Morgan is very "hip" and extremely expensive.

You do have options though.  You can easily commute on the great train system in DC (the Metro) from a much less expensive neighborhood and add just a few minutes to your commute.

Paying $750/sqft is paying to be in the heart of the cool restaurants and bars of DC.  Go a mile in any direction and I'm sure you can find more reasonable accommodations.  Or God forbid, move to Virginia or MD where taxes are much lower than DC!

Getting a small place is great, but not at these prices at this location.

Wow, your knowledge of the area is antiquated and/or inaccurate. Really.

Yes, Adams Morgan is a relatively expensive neighborhood, but it hasn't had the incredible recent development that other parts of the city have and thus prices have remained relatively subdued and reasonable given its central location compared to those parts of the city (ie: U Street, Logan, Navy Yard, and even NoMa. See: http://dc.urbanturf.com/articles/blog/the_cost_of_a_one-bedroom_rental_in_dc/9633).

Also, if you own a house and make less than $150k per year, chances are you're paying less taxes if you live in DC than in MD and VA.

[fitfrugalfab]

If you actually read the posts that I was posting in this thread you would have noted that my condo is Arlington, which is in VA. I posted this article because it's interesting and in fact true. I live here and I can see the trend happening real time. I'm also extremely proud of the fact that I own a condo is VA. It's my first purchase and I'm in my young twenties and I couldn't be happier.

I wasn't commenting on your condo in Arlington as I don't have any info on your condo.  I'm also not commenting on small condos in general.  Using the minimum amount of space you can handle is a great idea and saves tons of money!

I'm commenting on the idea that buying the particular small condo in the article in Adam's Morgan at 372 sq. ft and $280,000 could be construed as Mustachian.  My guess is that your condo in Arlington is a much better deal and there are many much better deals in the greater DC area.  Living in Adam's Morgan is the bay area equivalent of living in San Francisco.  There is no way around you are paying for close access to trendy restaurants and bars in this area.

Finally, congrats on your new condo!  Hope it works out great for you and your family.

You're right. That price for that size condo is far from Mustachian. That's why we steered clear of DC (and I'm also not a fan of the DC restaurant and bars area, I much prefer Clarendon or Shirlington). We had plans to move out of state to get more for our money but unfortunately due to a couple of circumstances we're stuck here for a little while longer.

[zephyr911]

Horse: dead, beaten.

Moving on... xD

[obstinate]

The job market in these high COL areas can compensate for high $/SQFT. You can't tell just from the price of something whether it's mustachian. You have to factor in its utility.

It helps to make more money but only if you choose a smaller apartment and otherwise "downgrade" your life. The higher salaries rarely compensate for the usual cost of living increases. Use a city COL calculator -- would I really get paid $300k in NYC for the same title and responsibilities? No f'ing way.

This is also why the reverse is possible. Save a lot of money living frugally in HCOL and move to LCOL and get a nice place and live it up.

You might, you might not. Everyone has to make this analysis for themselves. My only point is that this objection, "The price is too high, just because." is not a good one. There has to be some reasoning behind it, like, "There's a perfectly serviceable alternative for $X less!" An attempt was made at that, but it was wrong, because a rented bedroom is not substitutable with a studio.

[Digital Dogma]

I am merely renting a small 750 or so square foot condo due to my continually questionable job security (its the nature of being a contractor where I work). Its also worth noting that I live with my SO, no kids yet. The rent isnt bad for the area, and Im saving 250-450$ per month over comparable condos which all seem somewhat larger.

Lately our energy has gone into maximizing storage space using shelving we installed and assembled so we can fit more Costco sized food and necessities. Using a combination of steel rod shelving and hooks we have successfully hanged up half our kitchen tools on what was a bare wall when we moved in. I also just purchased a 3.8 cubic foot chest freezer from costco to house the half pig we will be purchasing from a friend which will fill in the last space we have left under our kitchen counter, this was in response to the small frig freezer space we have in a compact kitchen.
I scrounge for hardwood furniture from friends and neighbors who are moving or redesigning their living spaces and have fit about everything I would need and can pack in one place while still leaving some room to stretch out, I think its about as many "things" as Im capable of moving out on my own.
One benefit of a small space is a lack of corners to store my garbage that I hoard like broken printers (ugh when will I take this to the e waste place???) which means making tough choices more often on what is busted, 'used up' or simply unused. It also means less time spent cleaning when friends or family visit. Its less floor space to heat in winter and cool in the summer. The downside is no private yard, no garden, a single bathroom (I can deal with that just fine 99.9% of the time), neighbors in close proximity the problems they bring, and laundry (quarter fed machines that seem to eat my income right up).