Masonite siding on house . . . argh!

[Zamboni]

At the end of 2010 I bought a house which is perfect except for a couple of issues: it had a 25 year old roof and masonite siding. On the bright side, I knew the siding was an inferior building product during the negotiation process, so I got a couple of quotes for changing it to Hardie plank and used those as leverage to get additional reduction of the home sales price after the inspections. The home had recently been painted, and the most rotten individual boards were then replaced by the seller, so I decided to wait a couple of years before making any moves . . . during that time I replaced the entire roof (paid cash) . . .  but the time has come where I must do something about the siding and trim.

Options are:
1) Paint the existing siding and trim again, including replacing several more rotten pieces. Quotes for this so far have been in the $5000-$13000 range.
2) Replace the siding with Hardie plank. Quotes for taking off existing side and replacing with Hardie plank, including replacing and painting trim, are in the $20000-$37000 range. These were from 3 certified installers. The good news is that the price for this does not seem to have gone up much in the past 5 years (although the $37000 quote is crazy high.)
3) Replace with vinyl. I've tried to get quotes for this since I've heard that it's cheaper than Hardie plank. Both vinyl guys who have come out have seemed like snake oil salesmen rather than contractors, and both wanted to put the vinyl over my masonite, which just seems like a bad idea given that half of it has signs of rot, but I did manage to get one of them to actually give me a quote for $25000.

I have a 2 story house and no confidence that I could do this myself (if my brother lived here, then I'd try since he's in construction and has the know-how and tools, but I have neither.)

Next comes the question of how to pay for this. I can afford to paint from cash reserves, although it would temporarily deplete those. I sort of hate the idea of paying so much to paint siding that I can see is in pretty bad condition. To replace the siding I'd need to either liquify some investments or take out a HELOC for part of the expense.

I plan to live in the house for at least 5 more years and probably more like up to 10-12 years. While I will not be moving soon, I do not plan to stay here forever.

Questions? Thoughts? Recommendations? Thank you for any advice you can offer.

[Miss Piggy]

I may be wrong about this, but I thought houses with Masonite had a monetary settlement that's supposed to be passed on to new owners if it wasn't already used to replace the siding. Anyone else know?

[mjones1234]

Regarding the monetary settlement, I believe Miss Piggy may be referring to the Louisiana Pacific product. Unfortunately, this expired several years ago.

If cash is tight, I would lean toward replacing those boards and trim pieces that are legitimately rotten. Just know that the new stuff might have a different thickness and decorative pattern than the older stuff. One thing that has helped me is to go around and caulk all of the nail holes on the existing siding that's still good. It eliminates water getting behind the boards and continuing the degradation process to a large extent. If you do opt for having all of the boards replaced, I have found some savings by stopping by and talking to a crew on an active job site. I ask if they sub for a contractor and if so, do they have time on the weekends to do side work. Sure, there is a concern that they might not be insured. And, if this is something that bothers you (as it should being a responsible homeowner), then it's best to get a few bids. If you are in a city-like area, you can also get some deals by going into the surrounding rural areas. I live in the suburbs of a large southern city. Within 75 miles you're in some pretty rural settings and the guys are looking for work, and will negotiate. I had my whole house sided with a product nicer than hardiplank for about $5500. I painted it myself.

[geekette]

There were a bunch of lawsuits, but most, if not all, are long gone.

We had masonite on our house when we bought it in the early '90's (and it didn't qualify for any class action replacement).  Replace rot, paint, repeat.  Finally had Hardi put on in early 2007, had it painted once with good paint, and it STILL looks good. 

We were also worried that damage was going on behind the masonite, but there wasn't any.  Masonite is never ending trouble, vinyl (imho) looks cheap (plus I've seen it look chalky after a while, and it's easily damaged), and Hardi is expensive, but very low maintenance.  Your choice!

[Glenstache]

Are there reasons that you have to go back with siding that looks like ship-lap boards? If done properly (visually appealing spacing, parallel), board and batten type siding is reasonably easy to install and can look nice. It would also allow you to have the base smooth layer be a concrete-type material for longevity. If you prepaint or at least prime all materials before installing, it can make things a bit easier for a 2 story.

If you are in fire affected areas, the concrete based hardy board is an obvious benefit.

[lthenderson]

Just replaced my masonite siding two years ago with cement siding (different brand than Hardie) and absolutely love it. When walking about the neighborhood, you can always pick out the vinyl siding because it always bows, buckles and gets wavy. It looks like it costs, cheap.

I went the semi-DIY route. I bought the materials and hired a friend of mine to help me since I wasn't sure I could do it by myself especially on the backside of our walkout basement ranch where I would be very high off the ground. My friend had a special jig that allowed us to hang the siding ourselves much of the time while the other was off working on other things so with a jig, I probably could have done it all myself. It really isn't very technical and we worked on one section of the house at a time so we could pretty much go at our own pace. We started in the fall, worked through the winter as temperatures allowed and finished in spring.

I would also note that I'm glad I removed the masonite siding because behind the areas of water damaged siding was of course water damaged sheeting. It allowed me to replace the sheeting, wrap the house entirely in plastic which has made a dramatic efficiency gain and fix all the problems causing the water damage in the first place. To have just gone over it with vinyl siding would have been compounding the problem.

Going this route, I did my entire house for the cost of just over $10k which also included new soffit and new trim plastic trim everywhere. It was money well spent.

[Fishindude]

Do what you can afford.   Patch up the bad siding and repaint, a good paint job will last close to five years.

[Zamboni]

Thanks for the feedback so far, everyone! No one is voting for vinyl so far, so that puts it to:

1) repair, repaint, repeat
or
2) hardie plank now.

If my siding was holding up better all around, then I'd definitely go with the first route. I agree that it is what I can afford right now. Unfortunately the two sides of the house do not get much sun, so they stay wet for a long time. Those two sides are becoming bad much faster than the back of the house, for example, which gets lots of morning sun. The nails areas have been caulked but they were all overdriven in the first place (probably with a nail gun). That is why the painting estimates are so high: lots of repair needed.

I was just walking around the neighborhood, and it looks like about 1/3 of the homes in here have been resided.

Has anyone here redone their siding and then sold the house? Do you feel like you got much of that money back due to a higher price during resale? Again, I'm not planning to move soon, but would a Hardie Plank sided house be a selling feature vs. a masonite sided house?

[Reynolds531]

I just vinyl sided a shed I built for my dad 8*12*8 for $355 cad for the vinyl.

For $25000 I could side one heck of a big house. I'd continue to shop until I found a friendly contractor willing to do a side job. Pay as the job gets completed, you buy materials from distributior not a home center.

[Zamboni]

I know, right? These quotes I am getting are crazy.

I was completely shocked by the painting quotes, which is how this whole recent round of estimates started. And the vinyl siding quote was just ridiculous . . . but that guy was a schmo and I would never hire him or the other guy who came to quote me on the vinyl.

As a kid growing up, my dad just always painted our house himself . . . but it was a ranch style home. Hindsight being 20/20, I should not have bought a 2 story house. Live and learn.

[Peter Parker]

When I see posts like this, I cringe.... Because I can never pay someone else do what I can easily do myself.  Just can't part with that kind of money.  In addition, once you have done some of this stuff yourself, you realize that a many "contractors" do shoddy work--it will look nice when it is done--the test is how it holds up over the next 10 to 20 years.  Further when you determine their "hourly" wage they make more than most.

Hardiplank is a good product--and not too expensive.  It's not the easiest stuff to work with, but it is doable.  My concern is always what is going on underneath the masonite...Is there additional damage?  Do you need sheathing?  Good vapor/water barrier?  Will they properly waterproof around windows and doors?  When they start tearing that stuff off the may "find" additional problems and ask you to pay--or even worse, just cover it up. 

How much of your quote is for materials and how much for labor?  I'd price out the materials and make a determination whether it is worth having someone do it.   And, then, if you are like me, you'll educate yourself on how to do it right and get a little dirty doing it.

Good luck!

[Zamboni]

Thanks for the do-it-yourself suggestions. I really wish I had the skills to do this and the courage to get up on such a high ladder. Alas, that is not the case. In addition, I can think of too many things I'd rather do with my free time.

One of my irritations about the whole project is that not a single siding contractor has broken out the materials and labor pricing in a quote. It's pretty much like they are just making up numbers. Only one painting company (out of 4) gave me a paint/materials vs. labor break down. I asked for itemized quotes, but my idea of itemized and their idea of itemized is apparently vastly different.

On the other hand, I DO have the breakdown for some deck repair work (it's ~1/3 materials and 2/3 labor.) I'm going to start with the deck repair work, since I can easily write a check for that and there are safety related concerns with the current deck floor that make it more pressing. I'll save the other project for Fall to give me more time to research and think about it.

[MrGreen]

I don't know how big your house is but those estimates sound insane to me. Then again, you're also removing the existing siding so the job is more than just an install. How hard is it to remove masonite siding? I would definitely find some additional companies to give you quotes based on the numbers you've received so far. Something to keep in mind for cement vs. vinyl. If you go the cement board route, all the corners (not where boards meet, just corners) have to be sealed (caulked) and that will have to be maintained so you'll have a periodic expense there, where as vinyl is one and done. Also, a finished vinyl product should be just as straight and look as easy on the eye as cement board. If you have concerns about it being wavy that's all on the installer. Sounds like some others have seen crappy vinyl install jobs. I've seen crappy ones myself, but again that's all on the installer, not the product.

[Miss Piggy]

I don't know how big your house is but those estimates sound insane to me.

I agree. Those prices seem outrageous. We replaced the vinyl siding on our house had the vinyl siding on our house replaced a few years ago, and I think it cost around $8,000. This included removing the old siding, replacing that layer of plastic or whatever it is that goes between the house and the siding, new siding, new soffits, etc. The whole shebang. That quote/service was from Home Depot, and they were competitive with two other quotes we received. This is a two-story house in the midwest, but the siding is only on the second floor, three sides (the rest is brick).

[Gimesalot]

We are in the process of having our siding replaced.  We had old Cypress boards removed, 3/4" sheathing, home wrap, and hardi plank installed.  That came out to $20k on our house that is two stories, about 100 ft long and 25 ft wide in New Orleans.  Additionally, it was $6.5k for painting and a little masonry.  The paint was about $2k at Home Depot.  We bought the pain ourselves so we could pay for it at 24 months without interest.

We are so out of money for projects this year!

[lthenderson]

Has anyone here redone their siding and then sold the house? Do you feel like you got much of that money back due to a higher price during resale? Again, I'm not planning to move soon, but would a Hardie Plank sided house be a selling feature vs. a masonite sided house?

I sold my previous house with masonite siding still in good condition and I was amazed at the number of negative comments I got from potential buyers, mostly about how they would have to reside it almost immediately. I think masonite siding gets such a bad rap for deteriorating fast when not properly maintain (which it does), that it affects buyers perception of even well maintained masonite to the point that it detracts from the house.

After I sold that house, I bought my current house also with masonite siding that hadn't been maintained and was in poor shape. I have gotten lots of positive comments from guests and neighbors at how nice the siding looks compared to vinyl but since I haven't sold it, I don't know if that translates into a price premium. I would suspect it does but probably not enough of one to get all the money I put into it back. However, it might get enough of a premium that I would get the cost difference between vinyl and cement siding back and since I won't have all the buckling, molding and other issues that go along with vinyl, it saves me labor as well.

[lthenderson]

One of my irritations about the whole project is that not a single siding contractor has broken out the materials and labor pricing in a quote. It's pretty much like they are just making up numbers. Only one painting company (out of 4) gave me a paint/materials vs. labor break down. I asked for itemized quotes, but my idea of itemized and their idea of itemized is apparently vastly different.

One trick I have done before is to force them. Tell them that you will have all the materials on hand and you just need them to quote install. Then you obviously need to get the materials quoted and delivered. Generally though I haven't found that this saves you much in the long run as the contractors will jack up their prices a bit for labor only installs and then you bear the responsibility of having enough of the proper materials on hand instead of the contractor.

[SwordGuy]

I'm at work or I would post more detail. I'll try to do so tonight.

The hardee "board" siding is really easy to install.  One person can do it though it's nice to have two. 

The hardee 4x8 sheets are easy to install except that they are heavy as all get out. 

If you're doing a 2 story building I would suggest the boards, not the sheets.

Seriously, this stuff is easy to install.  Do it yourself and you'll save a bundle.

The first time I did it (and I'm certainly no pro at it!) I had people driving by stopping to try to hire me to do their house.

[Fishindude]

If you do hire a contractor to side the house, let him buy all of the materials.   His markup on materials is going to be pretty small and it is worth it to get you out of the responsibility of rounding up and delivering all materials.   Many contractors will walk away from the job when they see a customer penny pinching like this.

[Dicey]

Vinyl sucks, that's why you're not getting much positive feedback for it. It's often used to cover up problems, so consider it a warning and proceed with extreme caution.

When my sister and BIL bought their foreclosure, the house had been pillaged by the previous owners. They needed to do everything, everywhere. The budget was tight, so they scoured CL and related sources. They scored all of their Hardie Plank from a home builder who was closing out a project. They got a great deal, but the catch was that the planks were the same style, but all different colors. It took them a few weeks to replace all the siding, so the house was a crazy quilt, especially since my sister dithered on the paint color for a few more weeks. When it was finally painted, they were surprised at the number of people who thought the look was deliberate and liked it. What can I say, they live out in the country. It looks lovely now, and they love their choice.

[SwordGuy]

I've put up both hardy 4'x8' sheets and the plank siding.

If I recall correctly, those 4'x8' sheets weigh over 90 lbs.  It's fairly easy to put them on at ground level, but I would not want to do so 2 floors up.   There might be some equipment that can be rented or some clever working methods I haven't learned or thought of to make it easy and safe for 2nd floor work.   You would have to check on that.  (And report back what you find if you do! :) )

The planks are really easy to work with.  Buy a pair of these http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/151259434767  .  I think you can find them a few dollars cheaper if you look around.   The first two (the bottom two) courses of boards will take a little bit of effort to get them to go on horizontal to the ground.  The top-most board overlaps the one below it by about an inch.  (I forget exactly how much.)   Once the 2nd course is on you can start using the clamps.   The clamps hold the next board when and where you need it.  All you have to do is hammer it in.  Remove the clamps, move to the next spot, and repeat.   You will find that everything that is within hammering range of the ground will go blindingly fast!

I did much of this by myself and the 2nd floor portion (thankfully small on the house I worked on) went much slower.  That's because I had to climb up and down the ladder two to three times for each board.   If I had a buddy working on it with me it would have more than twice as fast since we would not have had to spend as much time going up and down ladders.

As for tools, aside from the Gecko clamps, you'll need a strong utility razor knife, preferably with titanium edges and a straight edge.  You score the board on one side and then snap it over a sharp table or saw horse edge.   A strong pair of pliers lets you nibble away any bits that didn't break clean.  You'll go thru the blades fairly quickly.

A jig saw with a bunch of blades will be needed for cutting boards to fit around windows, doors, etc.  You'll wear thru those blades fairly quickly.

A drill with a concrete bit if you need a hole for a cable.   And, of course, nails and a hammer.

You'll save a bundle if you do this yourself.  You can work on a wall segment at a time so you can split up the work in weekend-sized chunks.

Hope this helps.

[Zamboni]

Wow, this is all really good information. I'm working on getting a few more painting quotes. I finally got one that is more reasonable and the guy was young and seemed sincere . . . like someone from a crew trying to strike out on his own. He also quoted labor and materials separately, which I appreciated. Getting one more quote tomorrow and then I'll decide.

I'm sure buyers won't like the masonite siding, just like I didn't like it, but at the same time I'm not sure that they will want to pay $20-25K extra for the house based upon the siding. At the same time I don't have the money readily available for this big of a job (well, I do, but I'd have to sell some investments, and I'd rather not.) Leaning towards painting at this point.

I wish I had the confidence to do the siding job myself, and kudos to those of you who have done it! But I just don't have the confidence (and I'm a bit afraid of heights and hate even climbing on a chair to fix something on the ceiling.) It's a "know my limits" kind of thing.

[SwordGuy]

FYI, you might want to buy the paint yourself.

Some of the paint companies have a rebate.  Your painter will get it because the rebate coupon won't show up on the sales ticket they supply you.   Last time I saw one, it was something like $10 a gallon.