Author Topic: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE  (Read 5535 times)

Ron Scott

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Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« on: February 14, 2024, 06:09:22 AM »
Several months ago, when I suggested that marriage was a FIRE winner in part because “2 can live as cheaply as 1”, there was a good bit of pushback, mostly highlighting difficulty in aligning interests in FIRE, differences in spending habits, etc.

After thinking about it for awhile I’m starting to believe the criticisms were valid—but mostly to the extent that dedicated FIRE enthusiasts don’t properly vet potential mates. People certainly change and there’s no guarantee the person who told you how excited they were about FIRE won’t do an about face in the future, when kids and middle-age interests set in. But all that might simply balance out with the fact that single people are just less likely to save enough money to FIRE if they go it alone.

Anyway, 2 questions here:

1. Why do married couples have SO MUCH MORE money than singles?
2. “All things being equal” will marriage get you to FIRE faster than staying alone? (assuming you do your best to marry someone who appears very excited about FIRE)

The graph paints the picture. And here are some recent sources you can explore for more detailed information:

U.S. Net Worth: Married vs. Single Household Wealth (TheStreet, 2023): https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/us-net-worth-wealth-data-married-vs-single

Married Couples Surpass Other Young Adults in Wealth (Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, 2018): https://www.newsweek.com/best-way-close-wealth-gap-america-try-marriage-1762808

2023 Cost Of Living Data: Singles Vs. Married Couples (Bankrate, 2023): https://www.bankrate.com/real-estate/single-vs-married-housing/


rantk81

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2024, 06:29:47 AM »
- A whole lot of (large!) fixed expenses do no not need to be duplicated for multiple people living in the same home.
- A whole lot of tax breaks for filing jointly
- A whole lot of social security benefits for spouse and survivor

In my experience, those financial positives listed above, far out-weights having a spouse who is a little bit less frugal than I would otherwise be on my own.  Plus, life is better (for me, at least) living with someone I love.


2sk22

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2024, 06:52:42 AM »
Simple explanation: We were able to live comfortably on my salary and save most of my wife's salary.

Morning Glory

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2024, 07:21:35 AM »
Alternative explanation: people with higher incomes and wealth are more likely to get married. There is probably some finanical benefit to marriage but without controlling for these factors you can't really make a fair comparison.

Decline in marriage rates among non-college-graduates in the US:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2017/09/14/as-u-s-marriage-rate-hovers-at-50-education-gap-in-marital-status-widens/#:~:text=In%202015%2C%20among%20adults%20ages,for%20each%20of%20these%20groups.

Higher income people are more likely to get married:
https://www.businessinsider.com/rich-millennials-more-likely-married-homeowners-life-milestones-2019-10

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/who-gets-married-today-the-rich-and-educated/

"What about financial problems? No surprise, lower-income Americans are more likely to blame lack of money for failing to find a spouse. Almost half of people earning less than $30,000 said their finances were a major reason they hadn't yet married, compared with only 21 percent of those earning more than $75,000."
« Last Edit: February 14, 2024, 07:34:42 AM by Morning Glory »

Firefist

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2024, 07:39:09 AM »
I will add from my experience after a divorce I went through and having a 2-3 year gap before I met my current wife, I was out a lot as a single person spending money that I likely would not have spent had I been involved.  Nights out on the town, dating, dinners out (and most of the time paying for dates).  Nights out with the guys etc.  It doesn't seem like much in the moment, but if you are doing it 2-3 times per week, its likely hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month which really adds up over time, especially if you are single for years.  Having a wife and kids now, we find ourselves home a lot more now as its expensive and frankly exhausting to go out most of the time now!

Metalcat

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2024, 07:58:10 AM »
Yes, if we pose a hypothetical that removes the risks of unpredictable human behaviour, then yes, it's obvious that being able to combine incomes and/or split costs is financially beneficial, especially in jurisdictions with financial policies that reward marriage.

I don't think anyone would argue that two compatible, equally frugal people who never divorce are better off than an equally frugal single person who lives alone. With all of those caveats, yes, there's an advantage to being in a frugal, happy marriage that lasts until each person has an inexpensive end of life.


GilesMM

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2024, 08:10:29 AM »
Is this actionable?  e.g. are you recommending people get married in hopes of boosting their net worth?

RetiredAt63

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2024, 08:59:45 AM »
One advantage mentioned upthread was filing taxes jointly.  That is a U.S. thing.  Canadians file on their own. 



 

bacchi

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2024, 09:00:23 AM »
FIRE can take longer for 2 people if Player 2 doesn't make a lot.

As single people:
Person A earns $100k post-tax and spends $20k/year of that. Savings: $80k/yr.
Person B earns $40k post-tax and spends $15k/year of that. Savings: $25k/yr

Using a straight 25x no-gain scenario, Person A can retire in 20*25/80 = 6.25 years
Using a straight 25x no-gain scenario, Person B can retire in 15*25/25 = 15 years

When married, how much the shared spending drops is the biggest factor in determining FIRE length. There's a limit, though. Food is more-or-less the same, clothes stays the same, transportation costs may only drop slightly, entertainment costs may only drop slightly, etc.

Married, our couple earns $140k post-tax and spends $30k of that. Savings: $110k/yr

Using a straight 25x no-gain scenario, the couple can retire in 30*25/110 = 6.8 years
« Last Edit: February 14, 2024, 09:09:50 AM by bacchi »

Ron Scott

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2024, 12:03:08 PM »
are you recommending people get married in hopes of boosting their net worth?

Recommendations? I thought I asked 2 questions…?

wageslave23

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2024, 12:12:30 PM »
I think a lot of it is who is an enticing marriage partner? For a lot of people, the person with a high paying professional job is more attractive than the person bagging groceries who might also have developmental delays. Networth and marriage are correlated, not sure what the cause is.

aloevera1

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2024, 12:14:41 PM »
Several months ago, when I suggested that marriage was a FIRE winner in part because “2 can live as cheaply as 1”, there was a good bit of pushback, mostly highlighting difficulty in aligning interests in FIRE, differences in spending habits, etc.

After thinking about it for awhile I’m starting to believe the criticisms were valid—but mostly to the extent that dedicated FIRE enthusiasts don’t properly vet potential mates. People certainly change and there’s no guarantee the person who told you how excited they were about FIRE won’t do an about face in the future, when kids and middle-age interests set in. But all that might simply balance out with the fact that single people are just less likely to save enough money to FIRE if they go it alone.

Anyway, 2 questions here:

1. Why do married couples have SO MUCH MORE money than singles?
2. “All things being equal” will marriage get you to FIRE faster than staying alone? (assuming you do your best to marry someone who appears very excited about FIRE)

The graph paints the picture. And here are some recent sources you can explore for more detailed information:

U.S. Net Worth: Married vs. Single Household Wealth (TheStreet, 2023): https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/us-net-worth-wealth-data-married-vs-single

Married Couples Surpass Other Young Adults in Wealth (Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, 2018): https://www.newsweek.com/best-way-close-wealth-gap-america-try-marriage-1762808

2023 Cost Of Living Data: Singles Vs. Married Couples (Bankrate, 2023): https://www.bankrate.com/real-estate/single-vs-married-housing/

1. Because they haven't divorced (yet). I think there is quite a bit of bias in the graph towards successful marriages. If someone was married, then divorced and halved their NW in the process, they would show up in the singles statistics. In addition, divorce doesn't necessarily mean 50% coefficient for every person. Usually, some money is just lost in the process on fees, custody battles, logistics, etc.

2. It depends if you can maximize the financial value of the marriage lol. Not sure how exactly to quantify this besides what's been said already. It includes things like tax optimizing, division of labour to reduce expenses, more optimal housing situation, etc.

cannotWAIT

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2024, 12:26:40 PM »
I think the tendency when looking at these charts is to assume that the single people are people like you. But they take into account all single people, right? The drug addicts, the mentally ill, the developmentally delayed, the for-whatever-reason unemployable, etc. That's a lot of people and their very low or negative net worth is dragging the numbers down.

spartana

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2024, 05:11:41 PM »
I think any DINK couple (married or non-married partners (pardners?)) who are aligned with frugal spending and maximizing saving is always going to be far ahead of a single earning person maybe earning half what a couple would in normal situations. The problems come in when they arent aligned even, if in the beginning of their relationship, they were. A couple of DINKs can live in a shared studio apt, go without cars (or share one), share a majority of household expenses, etc and save a ton of money even if not high income earners.

Singles can often do the same by getting roommates or being a roommate  but there are still individual costs that may be higher than  married/coupled people have. That's especially true if you own a home. The single homeowner who rents a couple of rooms is still on the solo financial hook when the big things break or need maintenance, or the insurance, utilities, and property taxes increase. Food and transportation costs aren't generally shared and neither are investments and savings. Of course you don't have to worry when your roommate buys a $50k sports car or a monster truck or has huge medical bills or a law suit  because it's not coming out of your savings or income.

ETA: I FIREd single after a long marriage that ended in divorce (not because of financial reasons). Because we were both working and earning an equivalent amounts while married, and we where able to split many of our shared expenses and save a larger percent of our individual incomes,  each of us came out further ahead after divorce  then if we'd been single. So yeah marriage or a partnership can make it much easier to save a large amount but only if both are financially aligned and both are earning incomes. Having one dependent non-earning SAH spouse who isn't contributing financially (not counting their labor value) or  being parents or having a spendy partners going to look very different financially.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2024, 05:42:22 PM by spartana »

mistymoney

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2024, 05:36:29 PM »
Lol - I don't even know what is to be accomplished by re-hashing this again.

If we are just speculating on causality here...how about high income/net worth individuals are frequently preyed upon by the dreaded 'gold diggers' and fall prey to their machinations!

they may be able to dodge the less skillful or more obvious types....but eventually one will come along and somehow nab them!

Even if not intentionally marrying for money/financial ease - maybe there is less incentive to divorce a 'richer' spouse over smaller dissatisfactions or in general a lot less stress to wear on relationships - married or otherwised - for those with money.

At an essential level - why does this data even matter? There are plenty of rich single people and poor married people.

AlanStache

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2024, 05:51:26 PM »
Single people can start a research project with N = 1 here: https://firedating.me/  Go find a FIRE mate and see how your net-worth changes!

jrhampt

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2024, 04:53:19 AM »
Lol - I don't even know what is to be accomplished by re-hashing this again.

If we are just speculating on causality here...how about high income/net worth individuals are frequently preyed upon by the dreaded 'gold diggers' and fall prey to their machinations!

they may be able to dodge the less skillful or more obvious types....but eventually one will come along and somehow nab them!

Even if not intentionally marrying for money/financial ease - maybe there is less incentive to divorce a 'richer' spouse over smaller dissatisfactions or in general a lot less stress to wear on relationships - married or otherwised - for those with money.

At an essential level - why does this data even matter? There are plenty of rich single people and poor married people.

I don't think this is actually a very common scenario - with assortative mating, high earners tend to pair up together.

jeroly

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2024, 05:51:47 AM »


[...] 2 questions here:

1. Why do married couples have SO MUCH MORE money than singles?
Some answers to this have already been hit on, and a couple of others come to mind:

- self-selection:  people feel they need to have money to get married, so people who are married tend to have more money
- savings on rent, food shopping, travel
- focus is on the family unit, whether the couple or including kids - planning for the future is a bigger factor (vs. singles who are more focused on either themselves or on finding a partner), and when people plan for the future it usually involves saving.
- planning for the future can also involve being more serious about making progress in a career, with a focus on generating higher earnings (e.g. taking courses to progress towards some certification, applying for new and higher paying jobs, being more willing to work long hours for a promotion or extra pay)
Quote
2. “All things being equal” will marriage get you to FIRE faster than staying alone? (assuming you do your best to marry someone who appears very excited about FIRE)
This is a hugely variable proposition depending on the people involved.  Looking strictly at the numbers:

- It can all work out great.  Combining forces with another person opens up new ways to save.  Your spouse might make the same as or more than you do, and merging households could really ramp up your progress towards FIRE.  You can take advantage of some tax benefits as well, which will vary depending on how disparate your incomes are.

BUT...

- that other person could appear 'very excited about FIRE' and spend relatively less than their peers, but still 20% more than you do, for example, and you could be under some pressure to spend more, possibly delaying FIRE
- that other person could make significantly less than you, affecting your path to FIRE when combining resources
- that other person could develop health issues requiring your support and potentially affecting your FIRE journey

ON THE OTHER HAND...

- you could develop health issues requiring early retirement before FI, while being financially assisted by your other person
- you could learn new ways to be Mustachian together
- Possibly most important, you can usually develop a more interesting FIRE journey with another person

Ron Scott

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2024, 06:33:37 AM »
The average age of first marriage is steadily increasing. In the US, it's now 29.8 for men and 28.6 for women, compared to 23.7 and 20.8 in 1970.

The proportion of adults who have never been married is also rising. In the US, 25% of 40-year-olds have never been married, compared to just 6% in 1980.

A growing number of adults are choosing not to have children, citing reasons like personal freedom, career goals, or environmental concerns. A 2021 Pew Research Center study found that 44% of non-parents younger than 50 say it's unlikely they'll ever have children.


I think what we’re seeing is a pretty clear rejection of the traditional family in America. I am not sure this is exactly what people CHOSE or if their lives just evolved this way because of external circumstances. But I don’t think this society can ever go back. This is who we are now.

mistymoney

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2024, 07:57:12 AM »
Lol - I don't even know what is to be accomplished by re-hashing this again.

If we are just speculating on causality here...how about high income/net worth individuals are frequently preyed upon by the dreaded 'gold diggers' and fall prey to their machinations!

they may be able to dodge the less skillful or more obvious types....but eventually one will come along and somehow nab them!

Even if not intentionally marrying for money/financial ease - maybe there is less incentive to divorce a 'richer' spouse over smaller dissatisfactions or in general a lot less stress to wear on relationships - married or otherwised - for those with money.

At an essential level - why does this data even matter? There are plenty of rich single people and poor married people.

I don't think this is actually a very common scenario - with assortative mating, high earners tend to pair up together.

began with the lol, you know....just adding to the pot of speculation!

Laura33

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2024, 08:14:04 AM »
Generally, because the character traits that lead people to be good marital partners are also the character traits that lead to financial success.  Remember, marriage is entirely optional now.  BITD, if you got pregnant/got someone pregnant, you married, whether you were actually prepared to be a husband/wife or not.  And if you were 20-something and female and not married, there was something wrong with you; marriage is just What You Did.  That's not the world we live in any more.  Now, you have to consciously choose that you want to spend the rest of your life with this person -- and then put in the daily work to make that work.  And the people who tend to make those decisions are reliable, conscientious, intelligent, physically healthy, mentally competent, not addicted, gainfully employed, able to delay gratification, etc.  It's the same character traits that tend to get people through college, get decent jobs, keep those jobs, and be able to maintain good relationships with friends and family.  Assortive mating is a real thing.*

Obviously it's not binary; there are many, many people who don't marry who have those traits, and many people who do marry who do not, and then of course there are people who change from one category to another over their lifespan.  And some people without those traits will succeed financially, and some who have them will not.  But put two people with those traits together, and you have an optimal foundation for financial success.   

Why is the gap so huge?  Power of compounding, for one.  If you have two 401(k)s instead of one, you are going to end up with double the money.  But beyond that, you have more disposable income.  Married couples with two incomes can pay more for a house, but it usually won't be 2x what their single counterparts pay.  Even if it's 50% more than what each paid individually, that still leaves you with more money to save.  Add on to that that married people are more likely to buy homes, and when you buy a home your payments generally stay the same, whereas rent will increase over time, and that difference just compounds every year.

*You can make a similar argument with tithing.  You'd expect that people who started off giving away 10% of their income would be in the hole as compared to people who don't.  Yet everything I've read suggests that people who tithe on the whole do better financially than those who don't.  Why?  It's totally illogical if you just look at the math.  But people who tithe tend to be responsible, diligent, decent at planning, etc. -- which are exactly the same kind of character traits that tend to lead to financial success.

partgypsy

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2024, 08:31:53 AM »
I totally agree that 2 well matched people who cheer and support each other will go father in life (and most likely be more fulfilled) than 2 people doing it all solo. And yes 2 people can live almost as cheaply as one person living alone. The rub is finding that person. And if one is yoked to person who doesn't contribute or even is actively destructive (drug, financially, relationship wise), it can pull down not just the spouse but the entire family.

spartana

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2024, 09:19:09 AM »
I wonder if the graphs and statistics of married v. single include couples who live together and share a life but who keep separate finances and do not count their partners assets when determining NW? Be that as legally married people or single people.

That's probably less common for married people but it does happen and there are even a couple of recent threads about people wanting to quit their jobs because they are separately FI and can contribute 50% out of their investments to cover their portion of expenses. And of course, as mentioned above, more and more people remain unmarried for life (legally single/unmarried) but who are in life long relationships and share finances even if they don't count their SOs assets as part of their NW. I wouldn't personally count my unmarried SOs finances as part of my own but if I did we would be pretty high as a couple.

partgypsy

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2024, 09:58:05 AM »
Here's a question. Is the income per household, or per person?

spartana

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2024, 10:57:21 AM »
Here's a question. Is the income per household, or per person?
I think it's net worth and I assumed it was per couple (married) or per person (single) and didn't count total household NW.  But again, lots of singles - and probably some married -  are in a shared household but only count their personal NW. I do wonder if it's total NW (houses etc) or just investments.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2024, 11:01:23 AM by spartana »

evanc

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2024, 02:41:15 PM »
The expression "correlation does not prove causation" comes to mind here. It's not necessarily that being married makes you rich – perhaps some level of wealth makes you more likely to get married in the first place (or maybe it's some third factor like employment, which causes you both to accumulate wealth and also to be more likely to meet a marriage partner).

Sure, we can all imagine the reasons why being married (2 incomes, shared housing costs, etc.) make it easier, but certainly not a necessity.

Shockingly simple math works for anyone, regardless of marital status.

Scandium

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2024, 12:46:59 PM »
Is this actionable?  e.g. are you recommending people get married in hopes of boosting their net worth?

Are you offering? This was posted on Valentine's day after all..

If having one spouse is good for your NW, then having two should be even better! Can we see some stats for polygamy? Does Utah have a higher NW??

Metalcat

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2024, 01:38:42 PM »
Is this actionable?  e.g. are you recommending people get married in hopes of boosting their net worth?

Are you offering? This was posted on Valentine's day after all..

If having one spouse is good for your NW, then having two should be even better! Can we see some stats for polygamy? Does Utah have a higher NW??

We have a thread about this.

And yes, there are tons of stats on the financial situation of the FLDS church and the massive amount of money they make from their polygamist situation. But that's largely based on the fact that they use young men as free labour and then abandon them.

GuitarStv

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2024, 02:02:47 PM »
In addition to the great points that @Laura33 brought up, I have to wonder if the emotional support of being in a committed long term relationship helps to curb a lot of stupid waste.  As a single person, I spent way more on stupid stuff searching for happiness/contentment.  As a married person, my overall life contentment has gone way up because of that emotional support - without spending extra on anything.

mizzourah2006

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2024, 02:16:50 PM »
- A whole lot of (large!) fixed expenses do no not need to be duplicated for multiple people living in the same home.
- A whole lot of tax breaks for filing jointly
- A whole lot of social security benefits for spouse and survivor

In my experience, those financial positives listed above, far out-weights having a spouse who is a little bit less frugal than I would otherwise be on my own.  Plus, life is better (for me, at least) living with someone I love.

I think the bolded is only true if you have 1 person significantly out-earning another. If you have a HH income of $200k and one person earned $35k and another earned $165k there are benefits because the combined income saves the person earning $165k a lot more in taxes, but If both people earned $100k the taxes would be nearly identical if they filed jointly or separately.


tj

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2024, 05:23:47 PM »
In addition to the great points that @Laura33 brought up, I have to wonder if the emotional support of being in a committed long term relationship helps to curb a lot of stupid waste.  As a single person, I spent way more on stupid stuff searching for happiness/contentment.  As a married person, my overall life contentment has gone way up because of that emotional support - without spending extra on anything.

This makes a lot of sense!

kite

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2024, 10:06:26 AM »
People take a straightforward concept and miss the most ideal comparison to deduce the reason. 

Forget comparing the budget/income/finances of married folks with those who are never married/not (yet) married. These are different groups and will skew by age, socio-economic, ethnic, racial, religious affiliation, sexuality, & educational attainment categories. Too many other variables, each with independent impact on net worth, to determine the most meaningful insight.

Instead, contrast the married to the widowed; demographically they are more similar.
In doing so, the cost of being single is highlighted. Household tax rates go up. There are expenses for all the little conveniences that a spouse once provided without compensation. After one partner dies, these must be paid for, and they add up significantly.
In the coldest, calculating heart of the actuarial scientist, one can even put a price on it and determine the ideal amount of life insurance to have on a spouse to keep the standard of living stable after someone dies. This is the broader difference in the Married v. Single Net Worth gap. 





mistymoney

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2024, 11:43:35 AM »
People take a straightforward concept and miss the most ideal comparison to deduce the reason. 

Forget comparing the budget/income/finances of married folks with those who are never married/not (yet) married. These are different groups and will skew by age, socio-economic, ethnic, racial, religious affiliation, sexuality, & educational attainment categories. Too many other variables, each with independent impact on net worth, to determine the most meaningful insight.

Instead, contrast the married to the widowed; demographically they are more similar.
In doing so, the cost of being single is highlighted. Household tax rates go up. There are expenses for all the little conveniences that a spouse once provided without compensation. After one partner dies, these must be paid for, and they add up significantly.
In the coldest, calculating heart of the actuarial scientist, one can even put a price on it and determine the ideal amount of life insurance to have on a spouse to keep the standard of living stable after someone dies. This is the broader difference in the Married v. Single Net Worth gap.

Interesting take.

in regards to this:
Quote
Forget comparing the budget/income/finances of married folks with those who are never married/not (yet) married

is that really the comparison group now? or does it include divorced people?

should split out never married vs divorced

Telecaster

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2024, 12:41:48 PM »
In addition to the great points that @Laura33 brought up, I have to wonder if the emotional support of being in a committed long term relationship helps to curb a lot of stupid waste.  As a single person, I spent way more on stupid stuff searching for happiness/contentment.  As a married person, my overall life contentment has gone way up because of that emotional support - without spending extra on anything.

I'll add it makes me more deliberate about spending because it isn't just my money, it is our money.    This is completely internal.  My wife has never once commented negatively on my spending.   It is also easier to accomplish goals, financial and otherwise, with a partner.   

I'd say the kicker is having two incomes supporting one household.   It is easier to save if you make more money.   

kite

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2024, 03:57:33 PM »
People take a straightforward concept and miss the most ideal comparison to deduce the reason. 

Forget comparing the budget/income/finances of married folks with those who are never married/not (yet) married. These are different groups and will skew by age, socio-economic, ethnic, racial, religious affiliation, sexuality, & educational attainment categories. Too many other variables, each with independent impact on net worth, to determine the most meaningful insight.

Instead, contrast the married to the widowed; demographically they are more similar.
In doing so, the cost of being single is highlighted. Household tax rates go up. There are expenses for all the little conveniences that a spouse once provided without compensation. After one partner dies, these must be paid for, and they add up significantly.
In the coldest, calculating heart of the actuarial scientist, one can even put a price on it and determine the ideal amount of life insurance to have on a spouse to keep the standard of living stable after someone dies. This is the broader difference in the Married v. Single Net Worth gap.

Interesting take.

in regards to this:
Quote
Forget comparing the budget/income/finances of married folks with those who are never married/not (yet) married

is that really the comparison group now? or does it include divorced people?

should split out never married vs divorced

Divorce is a unique beast. It can be financially devastating in the best of circumstances.  Statistics show women experiencing a post divorce decline in standard of living over 40% and men with a decline around 20%. Personally, I wouldn’t want to use those stats to dissuade someone from exercising a choice to protect their physical & mental wellness by ending a relationship, so I left it out. Would they be better off if they never married? Depends. For the divorcee who’ll collect SS benefits on their ex’s record, there’s a quantifiable answer.

I think of the conventional wisdom of marriage being financially better as akin to that of getting a college education and buying a home. It’s not a simple matter of just picking any spouse; college major/college financing; or house and hitting a home run. Quite possible to muck it up, as a steady subset of folks seem bent on doing. Still the fundamentals apply. Chose wisely.

Telecaster

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2024, 06:12:27 PM »
Warren Buffett famously said that the riskiest thing you will ever say in your life is "I do." 

mistymoney

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2024, 08:48:41 PM »
People take a straightforward concept and miss the most ideal comparison to deduce the reason. 

Forget comparing the budget/income/finances of married folks with those who are never married/not (yet) married. These are different groups and will skew by age, socio-economic, ethnic, racial, religious affiliation, sexuality, & educational attainment categories. Too many other variables, each with independent impact on net worth, to determine the most meaningful insight.

Instead, contrast the married to the widowed; demographically they are more similar.
In doing so, the cost of being single is highlighted. Household tax rates go up. There are expenses for all the little conveniences that a spouse once provided without compensation. After one partner dies, these must be paid for, and they add up significantly.
In the coldest, calculating heart of the actuarial scientist, one can even put a price on it and determine the ideal amount of life insurance to have on a spouse to keep the standard of living stable after someone dies. This is the broader difference in the Married v. Single Net Worth gap.

Interesting take.

in regards to this:
Quote
Forget comparing the budget/income/finances of married folks with those who are never married/not (yet) married

is that really the comparison group now? or does it include divorced people?

should split out never married vs divorced

Divorce is a unique beast. It can be financially devastating in the best of circumstances.  Statistics show women experiencing a post divorce decline in standard of living over 40% and men with a decline around 20%. Personally, I wouldn’t want to use those stats to dissuade someone from exercising a choice to protect their physical & mental wellness by ending a relationship, so I left it out. Would they be better off if they never married? Depends. For the divorcee who’ll collect SS benefits on their ex’s record, there’s a quantifiable answer.

I think of the conventional wisdom of marriage being financially better as akin to that of getting a college education and buying a home. It’s not a simple matter of just picking any spouse; college major/college financing; or house and hitting a home run. Quite possible to muck it up, as a steady subset of folks seem bent on doing. Still the fundamentals apply. Chose wisely.

I find this a curious statement. why not discuss the full spectrum? Is not ignoring that in presenting the other data deceptive?

Why would people need to end a relationship by choosing not to get married? And the stats on divorce are very accessible in many formats - I don't think that this one additional detail would change someone's mind.

While marriage can certainly be a boon to two like minded people, it can be financial ruinous in other cases. If the OP data is mixing destitute divorcees with financially robust never marrieds (or vice versa!), its not really giving anyone any real information - and becomes worse than useless.

Then there the many permutations on children/no children/how many children, etc.

TheAnonOne

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2024, 10:54:13 PM »
I can only throw my personal experience into this.

Met in high-school, dated 0 drama style until 25 when we got married. In our early 30s now, with a 1.6mm net worth.

Notes:
1. Having my DW there allowed me to take riskier contracts, and thus earn more money without as much fear of going jobless. This improved my early year income by something like 80%
2. We save MOST of her income.
3. Having each-other certainly has a mood - boosting, positive outlook for the future effect. This keeps the "doomer" mood at bay and likely improves our actions overtime.
4. We only have 1 house, we share a car, sometimes we even share food!

I think I am probably at least 2x where I would have been, likely 5x.

For me at least, its been a 100% boon.

vand

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2024, 02:56:37 AM »
I suspect to understand the reason married people are more financially stable/successful than singles you need to look in the other direction and instead of looking at costs of living as married/single-- look at the behavioural aspects of the type of person who marries. 

A successful marriage requires planning, long term commitment, work, faith and fidelity.  These traits will all serve you well in building wealth.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2024, 03:46:07 AM »
I suspect to understand the reason married people are more financially stable/successful than singles you need to look in the other direction and instead of looking at costs of living as married/single-- look at the behavioural aspects of the type of person who marries.  A successful marriage requires planning, long term commitment, work, faith and fidelity.  These traits will all serve you well in building wealth.
I think you're on to something there as many things seem to be correlated to both low-marriage rates and low wealth. At the extreme, Down Syndrome or severe Autism would be two such things.

EDIT: At least in the age 35+ groupings, level of education achieved would be another thing: "Looking first at women of all races, we see that after age 30 college graduates pull ahead in the percentage currently married. About 75% of college graduates are married at age 40, compared to about 70% of those who attained high school or some college and only about 60% of those who didn’t complete high school." -- https://sites.utexas.edu/contemporaryfamilies/2012/04/11/womens-education-likelihood-marriage-historic-reversal/
« Last Edit: February 24, 2024, 03:52:30 AM by YttriumNitrate »

Metalcat

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2024, 05:28:56 AM »
I suspect to understand the reason married people are more financially stable/successful than singles you need to look in the other direction and instead of looking at costs of living as married/single-- look at the behavioural aspects of the type of person who marries. 

A successful marriage requires planning, long term commitment, work, faith and fidelity.  These traits will all serve you well in building wealth.

Exactly, which has been pointed out multiple times.

Marriages lasting and building wealth are both complex social processes that can't be distilled down to simple concepts.

However, both are considered hallmarks of "success" in our society, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that they co-vary.

However, looking at the positives that you've mentioned is only going to account for a certain number of that co-variance.

People make a huge logical mistake when they look at marriage longevity by assuming that marriages that last are happy and healthy, but that's simply not a conclusion you can draw.

Many long lasting marriages are absolutely miserable, and many, paradoxically, stay together because they have a lot of wealth.

Many couples who have obtained a certain degree of social "success" and who have been in a miserable marriage the whole time are more comfortable staying in a miserable marriage to sustain their economic and social standing rather than split their wealth.

So while a lasting marriage and wealth are both hallmarks of "success" within our society, that doesn't mean that the people within those constructs can't be utterly miserable, unhealthy, and unhappy.

I know far more older, miserably married, financially comfortable couples than I do peacefully happy older, married, financially comfortable couples.

There are absolutely couples who have money and long marriages because they've capitalized on important healthy skills that make them more successful.

But there are also other couples who are toxic, miserable, and just never learned how to actually be functional and healthy in our society, and who won't leave their marriages no matter how awful they are because they're not willing to be less wealthy.

Both wealth and marriage are so multifactorial and dynamic in their interactions, it's very complex to look at either causally.

Ron Scott

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2024, 07:16:47 AM »
I think a lot of the explanations offered here would be more compelling if the wealth gap were less dramatic. But it’s HUGE.

The Federal Reserve report on this phenomena noted “This pattern suggests that the gaps in median wealth cannot solely be attributed to the presence of an additional adult in the household. Otherwise, married households would have no more than twice the median wealth of unmarried households.”

Others have commented about the nature of marriage itself vs. alternatives. Some say marriage is a long-term commitment to legacy, while cohabitating (couples or roommates) is about reduction of expenses in the short-term—and this essential difference in philosophy leads to much greater wealth.

Whatever the reason, the gap cannot be explained entirely by tax tables and rent sharing. It’s obviously much more than that.

mistymoney

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2024, 08:31:26 AM »
I think a lot of the explanations offered here would be more compelling if the wealth gap were less dramatic. But it’s HUGE.

The Federal Reserve report on this phenomena noted “This pattern suggests that the gaps in median wealth cannot solely be attributed to the presence of an additional adult in the household. Otherwise, married households would have no more than twice the median wealth of unmarried households.”

Others have commented about the nature of marriage itself vs. alternatives. Some say marriage is a long-term commitment to legacy, while cohabitating (couples or roommates) is about reduction of expenses in the short-term—and this essential difference in philosophy leads to much greater wealth.

Whatever the reason, the gap cannot be explained entirely by tax tables and rent sharing. It’s obviously much more than that.

The problem with assuming causative factors to discriptive statistics is that anyone can weave whatever story they want about it.


Dicey

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2024, 09:54:04 AM »
No time to read all the comments yet. Chiming in to say each of us was at least lean FIRE when we met. Combining finances meant we were instantly 🔥.

DH continued to work until he hit his full pension number. As a result, we are FatFIRE beyond our wildest imaginings.

kite

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #44 on: February 24, 2024, 10:49:33 AM »

I find this a curious statement. why not discuss the full spectrum? Is not ignoring that in presenting the other data deceptive?

Why would people need to end a relationship by choosing not to get married? And the stats on divorce are very accessible in many formats - I don't think that this one additional detail would change someone's mind.

While marriage can certainly be a boon to two like minded people, it can be financial ruinous in other cases. If the OP data is mixing destitute divorcees with financially robust never marrieds (or vice versa!), its not really giving anyone any real information - and becomes worse than useless.

Then there the many permutations on children/no children/how many children, etc.

Heard of Ceteris Paribus as it relates to economics? 
To isolate the most meaningful variable, you’ve got to hold all other things equal.

The divorced population is not the same as married or widowed. Divorce comes with its own financial hit, and the divorced population includes a percentage of genuinely bad actors whose personal choices devastate family finances through infidelity, addiction, abuse.

So I’d argue that the relevant question is found in contrasting the married against formerly married who didn’t endure divorce attorney/alimony/child-support expenses, ie.. the widowed.
Tax tables reset for the worse + expenses increase. Result is lower net worth.

All the other variables also widen the gap, too.  And in a comprehensive analysis of population level statistics and public policy, they do matter. But the focus on those detracts from the absolutely quantifiable value of marriage for individuals and for society. 

An aside:
Pre Ogberfell, I used to make the economic argument that society would benefit from same-sex marriage because it leaves fewer people destitute and dependent upon the State for their care. And it was an economic argument at the heart of Windsor SCOTUS decision that found DOMA to be unconstitutional. All things being equal, marriage eliminated Edie Windsor’s $300,000 tax bill.

vand

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #45 on: February 24, 2024, 12:25:19 PM »
It could also be argued that getting married itself, at least in a today's society is a huge cost that is out of reach to the financially unstable. We've all seen reports on the average cost of a wedding. So the data is, again, self-selecting.

Ron Scott

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #46 on: February 24, 2024, 12:37:10 PM »
I think a lot of the explanations offered here would be more compelling if the wealth gap were less dramatic. But it’s HUGE.

The Federal Reserve report on this phenomena noted “This pattern suggests that the gaps in median wealth cannot solely be attributed to the presence of an additional adult in the household. Otherwise, married households would have no more than twice the median wealth of unmarried households.”

Others have commented about the nature of marriage itself vs. alternatives. Some say marriage is a long-term commitment to legacy, while cohabitating (couples or roommates) is about reduction of expenses in the short-term—and this essential difference in philosophy leads to much greater wealth.

Whatever the reason, the gap cannot be explained entirely by tax tables and rent sharing. It’s obviously much more than that.

The problem with assuming causative factors to discriptive statistics is that anyone can weave whatever story they want about it.

So true.

What do you think helps explain why married people have such higher new worths than singles? I’d be interested in your opinion on the subject.

Dicey

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #47 on: February 24, 2024, 12:39:37 PM »
It could also be argued that getting married itself, at least in a today's society is a huge cost that is out of reach to the financially unstable. We've all seen reports on the average cost of a wedding. So the data is, again, self-selecting.
Some people elope ;-)

ToughMother

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #48 on: February 24, 2024, 12:53:20 PM »
The problem with assuming causative factors to discriptive statistics is that anyone can weave whatever story they want about it.

Was coming here to say this and instead will simply give a +1 to @mistymoney.

AlanStache

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Re: Married v. Single; Net Worth Gap; FIRE
« Reply #49 on: February 24, 2024, 01:39:37 PM »
Have any of the cited articles discussed high wage earners distorting the averages?  Am thinking of doctors marrying doctors and lawyers marrying lawyers, just as a matter of who they were meeting while in there 20's and 30's.  My neighbor is in the late stages of residency and it seems her entire social circle are other doctors.