Author Topic: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?  (Read 4094 times)

rothwem

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I'm an engineer with 14 years of experience, so maybe I'm in a weird middle ground between "mid-level experienced" and "consulting/staff" engineer. Still, in the last few months I've been completely bombarded on LinkedIn with recruiters offering me positions that I'm massively overqualifed for that pay 60-70% of what I'm making right now.  I'm pretty sure they're legit jobs and not spam, but why would a recruiter think that I'd want to take a pay cut? Or move to California/[insert HCOL place] AND take a pay cut?

Is this a common thing these days? 

rantk81

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2023, 07:26:37 AM »
I'm an engineer with 14 years of experience, so maybe I'm in a weird middle ground between "mid-level experienced" and "consulting/staff" engineer. Still, in the last few months I've been completely bombarded on LinkedIn with recruiters offering me positions that I'm massively overqualifed for that pay 60-70% of what I'm making right now.  I'm pretty sure they're legit jobs and not spam, but why would a recruiter think that I'd want to take a pay cut? Or move to California/[insert HCOL place] AND take a pay cut?

Is this a common thing these days?

I think you're giving them too much "credit" as if they are actually taking anything about you into consideration.  In my experience, they're probably borderline-spammers that are just running a script to try to harvest as many potential candidates for any roles that they are recruiting for.  It's a numbers game to them.  They get a "finders fee" for anyone they can place in a new job.


Ron Scott

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2023, 07:54:58 AM »
I'm an engineer with 14 years of experience, so maybe I'm in a weird middle ground between "mid-level experienced" and "consulting/staff" engineer. Still, in the last few months I've been completely bombarded on LinkedIn with recruiters offering me positions that I'm massively overqualifed for that pay 60-70% of what I'm making right now.  I'm pretty sure they're legit jobs and not spam, but why would a recruiter think that I'd want to take a pay cut? Or move to California/[insert HCOL place] AND take a pay cut?

Is this a common thing these days?

Iíve seen 2 good strategies for dealing with headhunters.

One is to engage with them, tell them your interests and bottom line on compensation, and talk with them about the offerings they bring to you. If you get one that continues to bring you jobs that donít fit what youíve told them, tell them to stop calling and hang up if they do.

The other strategyómy personal oneóis to just say don't call me and hang up. That worked very well for me!

Sibley

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2023, 07:59:56 AM »
I also get random recruiter contacts. Many of the jobs are shitty jobs. Its not just you.

rothwem

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2023, 08:29:29 AM »
I'm an engineer with 14 years of experience, so maybe I'm in a weird middle ground between "mid-level experienced" and "consulting/staff" engineer. Still, in the last few months I've been completely bombarded on LinkedIn with recruiters offering me positions that I'm massively overqualifed for that pay 60-70% of what I'm making right now.  I'm pretty sure they're legit jobs and not spam, but why would a recruiter think that I'd want to take a pay cut? Or move to California/[insert HCOL place] AND take a pay cut?

Is this a common thing these days?

I think you're giving them too much "credit" as if they are actually taking anything about you into consideration.  In my experience, they're probably borderline-spammers that are just running a script to try to harvest as many potential candidates for any roles that they are recruiting for.  It's a numbers game to them.  They get a "finders fee" for anyone they can place in a new job.

Hm, I sortof figured this was the case, I just wonder why their search is selecting me as a likely candidate for jobs that are completely wrong.  I guess there's no downside to it for them though. 

dividendman

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2023, 08:53:13 AM »
I also get random recruiter contacts. Many of the jobs are shitty jobs. Its not just you.

I turned my LinkedIn to hibernate last year because of this. I'm also retired so I'm not really interested in any jobs but I did like to read LinkedIn occasionally to see what's going on. I don't do that anymore.

Sibley

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2023, 08:56:27 AM »
I'm an engineer with 14 years of experience, so maybe I'm in a weird middle ground between "mid-level experienced" and "consulting/staff" engineer. Still, in the last few months I've been completely bombarded on LinkedIn with recruiters offering me positions that I'm massively overqualifed for that pay 60-70% of what I'm making right now.  I'm pretty sure they're legit jobs and not spam, but why would a recruiter think that I'd want to take a pay cut? Or move to California/[insert HCOL place] AND take a pay cut?

Is this a common thing these days?

I think you're giving them too much "credit" as if they are actually taking anything about you into consideration.  In my experience, they're probably borderline-spammers that are just running a script to try to harvest as many potential candidates for any roles that they are recruiting for.  It's a numbers game to them.  They get a "finders fee" for anyone they can place in a new job.

Hm, I sortof figured this was the case, I just wonder why their search is selecting me as a likely candidate for jobs that are completely wrong.  I guess there's no downside to it for them though.

They are using key words and blasting from there. For me, it's "internal audit" and "audit". Possibly also location. That is literally all it is.

joe189man

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2023, 09:06:02 AM »
I get them too. You can tell that most "recruiters" have no idea what they are recruiting you for or has no idea if your experience matches the job. As long as your title says "Civil Engineer" they assume you can do any type of civil engineer work from hydrology to roads, to waste water to structural work. I always thought if an actual engineer started recruiting they would be very successful as they can talk the talk and can find the correct folks for specific jobs

NoVa

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2023, 09:23:29 AM »
I'm an engineer with 14 years of experience, so maybe I'm in a weird middle ground between "mid-level experienced" and "consulting/staff" engineer. Still, in the last few months I've been completely bombarded on LinkedIn with recruiters offering me positions that I'm massively overqualifed for that pay 60-70% of what I'm making right now.  I'm pretty sure they're legit jobs and not spam, but why would a recruiter think that I'd want to take a pay cut? Or move to California/[insert HCOL place] AND take a pay cut?

Is this a common thing these days?

Many recruiters have crappy jobs they are supposed to fill, and no one wants to take them. So they get desperate.

jinga nation

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2023, 09:43:32 AM »
what @joe189man said is 100%.

I used to get a lot of LinkedIn "recruiters" messaging me since March 2020. Most of these were chuckle chumps, to be honest. They give the good apples a bad name.
I updated my profile, added specific keywords for my line of work. This reduced the number of hits. Added that I'm not open to relocation. I don't have my mobile number in LinkedIn; only my Google Voice number, which is set to Do Not Disturb. Use it only for MFA login - TOTP.
Some of these recruiting idiots attempt a sending an invitation to connect, which includes a job info. Automatic reject.
If it has relocation, reject. Didn't read my profile, obviously, first line says this little piggy ain't moving.
Then jobs which include contracting/part-time/contract-to-hire are weeded out, only FT are worth a glance.
If they haven't provided compensation info, ask for the job description and pay range. The good ones will give you without hesitation. If they balk, reject.
Then, if it is something I wish to pursue, we have a phone call. FU money means it's more of me interviewing them to figure out what I want to do, and also to have an interview with the technical manager or technical staff to get an in-depth view of the position. Again, good companies will do this. If not, yellow/red flag; proceed with caution.
If tech interview goes well, and the company really wants you, they'll pay. Got a 30% base pay increase on my new position, but also a promotion from my previous, plus a 10% bonus if I hit a certain number of billing hours (easily achievable). Negotiated a higher PTO number. I'll say that the in-house recruiter and the company went all out to pursue me, just an amazing recruiting experience that I've never had in my 19 years of working.

I had almost 100 "interactions" on LinkedIn last year. I could have collected that data and made a Sankey diagram, looking back. But that's work with no RoI, yuck!

@NoVa I've had less than 5 recruiters contact me in 2023, and probably ZERO since the tech layoffs, hiring freeze, etc.

RedmondStash

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2023, 11:40:43 AM »
I think recruiters have resorted to much broader search algorithms in recent years. I used to get pretty targeted personal approaches, and now I get brief, impersonal, spammy approaches for jobs that aren't even a good fit on paper.

Lots of roles to fill, lots of pressure to fill them. Yeah, it's a numbers game.

Loren Ver

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2023, 03:06:28 PM »
As mentioned probably coming up as a word search.  I don't think recruiters "have" time to really read all the job openings and then everyone resume to see who is matchy to whom, that would involve way too much time and energy.  Easier to just let people self select.

When that doesn't work, you get this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eogMRDs9jiY


Loren

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2023, 03:21:35 PM »
I work for one of the largest companies in my industry (construction). And I have found a lot of recruiters from smaller companies try to pry people away with a one time raise and a title that makes it seem like you are getting promoted but you get to work 20% more hours because you have no support. Ironically the ones who fall for it I generally donít like

I usually ask them if they have any opportunities for owners or positions that offer equity. Still
Have not gotten a responseÖ

Michael in ABQ

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2023, 04:37:03 PM »
A recruiter contacted me the other day for a contractor position working at the Pentagon. It was a pretty specific set of experience they were looking for that I would have met. The pay range was $95-110k. I responded that I wasn't interested since I left my former government job to buy a business. Also, had I stayed there I would have been making a base salary of $85k in a much lower cost of living area. So at best it would have been break-even.


They mentioned it was hybrid so only two days in the office. So, I guess I could move to northern Virginia, find a reasonable place 20-30 miles away and commute in twice a week. But there's no way I'd consider moving or going back to work for the government (or anyone) unless they made it really worth my while. $150-200k/year and I'd definitely consider it.

I did respond that I wasn't interested in moving - certainly not at that salary range in D.C. I did mention I might be open to some remote consulting work (if they made it worth my while).

bryan995

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2023, 05:15:44 PM »
A fire has been lit under everyoneís ass. Itís just recruiters spamming trying to boost numbers to avoid the next round of RIFs.

And donít always assume it would be a massive pay cut to move to HCOL ;)

hdatontodo

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2023, 05:34:13 PM »


...
 So, I guess I could move to northern Virginia, find a reasonable place 20-30 miles away and commute in twice a week. ...

Good choice not to take it. A relative lives in NoVa at the end of the Metro rail line. Commuting has become impossible from further out. His split-level house is now worth $800K, and they are becoming knock-downs for houses $1M+.



Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk


TreeLeaf

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2023, 06:14:25 PM »
I have noticed a similar thing recently.

I don't put any sort of thought into it though because they're recruiters, and they probably put no thought into their message anyway.

I think several of them are spamming people with automated messages. I have noticed a LOT of generic messages lately with no reference to me, or very generic messages mentioning I like your work experience at 'x' company, etc.

Part of my profile includes things that were clearly NOT work I did at a company, but some of these chatbots mistake it as a company, for example. Any human being would recognize this...so this is an obvious sign.

I almost want to put something in my profile that reads "don't contact me unless you have a remote full time job paying 150k+ with flexible hours"... but I don't think that is socially wise or acceptable.

Chris Pascale

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2023, 03:58:10 PM »
Would any jobs would allow for you being "overemployed." There's a pretty interesting subreddit r/overemployed about people who simultaneous jobs.

I did this in 2015 - writing ad copy for a company in San Francisco from my office in New York.

scottish

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2023, 01:44:48 PM »
I'm an engineer with 14 years of experience, so maybe I'm in a weird middle ground between "mid-level experienced" and "consulting/staff" engineer. Still, in the last few months I've been completely bombarded on LinkedIn with recruiters offering me positions that I'm massively overqualifed for that pay 60-70% of what I'm making right now.  I'm pretty sure they're legit jobs and not spam, but why would a recruiter think that I'd want to take a pay cut? Or move to California/[insert HCOL place] AND take a pay cut?

Is this a common thing these days?

I get them from Amazon.   Usually 3-4 levels below my position/skill set.

I figure that if the positions were for good jobs, they wouldn't need to hire a recruiter to try and find a sucker candidate to fill them.   

use2betrix

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2023, 06:48:00 PM »
A bit over 2 years ago I had a head hunter reach out on LinkedIn. Over the years Iíve had a few, always offering crappy job with embarrassing pay.

November 2020 had another random message on LinkedIn about a position. I told them my current pay expecting to scare them off (over $300k) and it didnít. I ended up going through around 3-4 rounds and negotiated an offer that was about the pinnacle contract position and project for my industry. Last year in the contract position I made $450k and then accepted a full time position late last summer and started in January.

Most LinkedIn head hunters suck, but in the future Iíll at least hear what they have to say. Itís pretty easy to tell them your requirements (I.e. salary, location, benefits) and see what they have to say.

frugalnacho

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2023, 10:20:26 AM »
I get them too.  It's not automated spam, it's a real person, but it's still most definitely spam.  They are just contacting everyone with every offer they have and hoping something sticks. I started my own company and they still contact me.

"Are you happy with your current role? Would you like the opportunity to explore a new path with your career?"

Dude, I am president of the company.  The company has my fucking name in it.  All of this is very clearly explained in the first couple sentences of my profile, which you obviously didn't bother to read.  No thank you, I'm not interested. 

"Ok. But what would it take to get you consider a new position at a new company?"

...At which point I just hang up on them. 

I assume the reasonable ones that do even the most modest of due diligence like taking the time to read my one paragraph linkedin profile, and also look at my current company as well as my own name, simply never contact me because I'm obviously not interested.  Of the ones that do contact me, about half get the hint when I say I'm not interested because I work for my own company.  The other half have some kind of weird exchange like the one above.

I have probably been contacted like 10 times in the last year.

rothwem

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2023, 12:19:18 PM »
A bit over 2 years ago I had a head hunter reach out on LinkedIn. Over the years Iíve had a few, always offering crappy job with embarrassing pay.

November 2020 had another random message on LinkedIn about a position. I told them my current pay expecting to scare them off (over $300k) and it didnít. I ended up going through around 3-4 rounds and negotiated an offer that was about the pinnacle contract position and project for my industry. Last year in the contract position I made $450k and then accepted a full time position late last summer and started in January.

Most LinkedIn head hunters suck, but in the future Iíll at least hear what they have to say. Itís pretty easy to tell them your requirements (I.e. salary, location, benefits) and see what they have to say.

Yeah, not a bad idea.  Maybe I should have a canned response that I send to each of them.

I figure that if the positions were for good jobs, they wouldn't need to hire a recruiter to try and find a sucker candidate to fill them.   

Ugh.  Yeah, this too though.  I've had 5 different people contact me about a particular job in Charlotte where they're looking for someone with 10-15 years of experience and the role lines up pretty well with my skill set, but they're literally offering 50-60% of my current pay.  I have no idea who they're going to get to fill the role, the employer just isn't in the same hemisphere where me or my peers would even try negotiating.  My guess is that they'll end up with a foreign candidate, there's a lot of guys from India that have the skillset they're looking for. 

Would any jobs would allow for you being "overemployed." There's a pretty interesting subreddit r/overemployed about people who simultaneous jobs.

I did this in 2015 - writing ad copy for a company in San Francisco from my office in New York.

No, my job makes it tricky to be overemployed.  You need a strange set of circumstances for that to work out--minimal supervision, light workload and white collar work that can be done from anywhere.  And you need to find TWO of them! Seems hard, but I guess it works out sometimes.

I work with actual things that need to be assembled/dissembled, cut and examined, which is tough to do remotely.  It would be cool if I could though, I like money.

A fire has been lit under everyoneís ass. Itís just recruiters spamming trying to boost numbers to avoid the next round of RIFs.

And donít always assume it would be a massive pay cut to move to HCOL ;)

Nonono, I was saying that I've gotten several jobs that include massive pay cuts IN ADDITION to a move to a HCOL.  SpaceX is the main employer guilty of that, wanted me to move to LA, while making 15K less than my current pay.  "People don't tend to work at SpaceX for the money, they're interested in the mission".  Where's my vomit emoji?  Of course when I'm working for the richest man in the world, I don't tend to care about money at all. 

scottish

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2023, 03:28:47 PM »
Nonono, I was saying that I've gotten several jobs that include massive pay cuts IN ADDITION to a move to a HCOL.  SpaceX is the main employer guilty of that, wanted me to move to LA, while making 15K less than my current pay.  "People don't tend to work at SpaceX for the money, they're interested in the mission".  Where's my vomit emoji?  Of course when I'm working for the richest man in the world, I don't tend to care about money at all.

I hear you.  space-x has a great mission, but the owner's a bit of a umm..  you know.

Dicey

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2023, 05:06:11 PM »
As mentioned probably coming up as a word search.  I don't think recruiters "have" time to really read all the job openings and then everyone resume to see who is matchy to whom, that would involve way too much time and energy.  Easier to just let people self select.

When that doesn't work, you get this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eogMRDs9jiY


Loren
Loved it!


jinga nation

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2023, 07:25:40 PM »
Nonono, I was saying that I've gotten several jobs that include massive pay cuts IN ADDITION to a move to a HCOL.  SpaceX is the main employer guilty of that, wanted me to move to LA, while making 15K less than my current pay.  "People don't tend to work at SpaceX for the money, they're interested in the mission".  Where's my vomit emoji?  Of course when I'm working for the richest man in the world, I don't tend to care about money at all.

I hear you.  space-x has a great mission, but the owner's a bit of a umm..  you know.

Owner's head/mind is in the skies/Mars?

I had a major cloud service provider hit me up on LinkedIn several times in 2022. Team leads, recruiters, managers, which was weird, but that's the way it is at that company. Went thru a couple of interview rounds, because why the heck not? Recruiters were ignoring red flags of me explaining I didn't have the number of years of experience in specific technology or role or breadth, sometimes all three.
Ended up saying no each time, because their benefits only gives 80 hours of PTO annually while claiming great work/life balance. (In reality, I took 5 weeks off in 2021 and 2022, and work only 40H/week. And thanks to a load of FU money, I can demand and prioritize family time over being a wage slave in a Fortune 50 juggernaut.) Their base pay was what I was making. The tradeoff was stock vs PTO. Young kids, PTO wins. 50-60H wage slave vs 40H then daily workouts, yeah iron pump time wins.
In reality, their engineers/developers, who I've met at their major annual convention that takes over the bulk of the Las Vegas strip, are freaking amazing clever folks. I know I'm not at their level. I'm not clever enough to be their waiter.
But I do know, that if I did get hired, I would definitely have been laid off in late 2022/early 2023, or in the upcoming 9,000 layoffs.

FireLane

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2023, 10:51:00 AM »
This could be more evidence of the labor shortage. Employers and recruiters can't fill their worst-paid/least-desirable jobs, so they're blasting them all over the net in the hope that quantity will compensate for quality.

I get LinkedIn messages from Amazon recruiters every few weeks or months. The working conditions there must be miserable, if they're having this much trouble keeping staff.

NoVa

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2023, 12:30:04 PM »
It is possible that there is something on your resume that triggers some of this. It happened to me. I (sysadmin at the time) had done several Active Directory migrations. Once my resume got out in the wild I kept getting actively recruited for these jobs, even though 1. they were paying far less than my current position, 2. were always in another state, and 3. were temporary.

Even when I updated my resume online and removed those references, I still got calls year after year. Apparently they just scrape any resume they can find into their databases and never look at your latest one.

trollwithamustache

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2023, 04:24:01 PM »
It's always been there, but now I think it's increasing. My sense is LinkedIn and a bunch of these places maybe are using something like ChatGPT or another automated tool. I've responded to some of these and am clearly getting auto responses that don't deal with my response in any coherent way.

I want to be a contractor and I'm not available for relocation (I don' t ask for remote, I just state it this way) and most of the time the recruiter wants to confirm my ability to relocate to XXX.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2023, 05:15:06 PM »
I've noticed a similar uptick recently. Today I got an email from a recruiter for a company near me.  It's a good match in terms of skillet, and I'm interested in the industry. I'm pretty happy in my current role, but out of curiosity I looked them up on Glassdoor.

Heh, that earned a quick nope reaction. Yeah, I know there's selection bias in Glassdoor reviews, but it's still not a good look when your employees post about how an acquisition and management change have led to benefit cuts, loss of company culture, and the departure of experienced employees.

rothwem

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2023, 05:55:30 PM »

Heh, that earned a quick nope reaction. Yeah, I know there's selection bias in Glassdoor reviews, but it's still not a good look when your employees post about how an acquisition and management change have led to benefit cuts, loss of company culture, and the departure of experienced employees.

Enh, Iíd have probably followed it through if the role still seems interesting just to see what the hiring manager is like. Iíve found that my direct supervisor is the main factor  that makes the biggest difference to my work happiness, company culture be damned. Iíve had good work culture with a bad manager and bad company culture with a good one, and Iíd take the latter 10 times out of 10. The most annoying thing was in the good culture/bad manager situation, I KNEW my manager was a dope but I went along with the role because everyone else I met was great. Four years of my career wasted right there.

jinga nation

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2023, 05:56:17 AM »
It is possible that there is something on your resume that triggers some of this. It happened to me. I (sysadmin at the time) had done several Active Directory migrations. Once my resume got out in the wild I kept getting actively recruited for these jobs, even though 1. they were paying far less than my current position, 2. were always in another state, and 3. were temporary.

Even when I updated my resume online and removed those references, I still got calls year after year. Apparently they just scrape any resume they can find into their databases and never look at your latest one.

Hundo percento correcto!

I'm in IT now, but I get LinkedIn DMs and emails for job openings in my past life as an RF/EMag engineer. I left that industry over a decade back. Scrubbed info from LinkedIn and my resume. I don't think their DBs made from web-scraping have a field to tag if this is fresh new info or old shit.

@rothwem I've worked at a place with bad company culture and good manager. Over time, there's a limit to how much crap your good manager can shield you from. Eventually, everyone suffers. 3 years of my life partially wasted. I learned life lessons more than gaining technical experience.

rothwem

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2023, 08:38:39 AM »
It is possible that there is something on your resume that triggers some of this. It happened to me. I (sysadmin at the time) had done several Active Directory migrations. Once my resume got out in the wild I kept getting actively recruited for these jobs, even though 1. they were paying far less than my current position, 2. were always in another state, and 3. were temporary.

Even when I updated my resume online and removed those references, I still got calls year after year. Apparently they just scrape any resume they can find into their databases and never look at your latest one.

Ugh, I'm wondering if this is the issue.  I've got a phrase on my LinkedIn profile about "training technicians", I wonder if their search is picking up "technician" and running with it. 


@rothwem I've worked at a place with bad company culture and good manager. Over time, there's a limit to how much crap your good manager can shield you from. Eventually, everyone suffers. 3 years of my life partially wasted. I learned life lessons more than gaining technical experience.

Oh, totally agreed.  Ideally you'd have a good manager and company culture, but if given the choice of one of them being bad, I'd do good manager/bad culture over bad manager/good culture.  Having the most influential person you see regularly be a career killing dope while seeing other people in the organization flourish is soul-killing. 

TomTX

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2023, 04:46:33 PM »
The majority of LinkedIn recruiters seem to want to put me in for a job which requires a Professional Engineer (PE) license.

I don't have a PE. I've never had a PE. My LinkedIn doesn't say I have a PE. The Texas Board of Professional Engineers refused to even let me test for the FE because my science degree isn't one of the science degrees they accept as an alternate if you double the "apprentice" years under a PE compared to someone with an Engineering degree.

Plus it's usually onsite bullshit. I'm 90% WFH, making 6 figures and vested* in the pension at what's frankly a pretty easy job.

*I can't retire today and take a pension. If I keep working I can take the pension in 4 years. If I stop working I can take the pension in 8 years.

HawkeyeNFO

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2023, 07:32:24 AM »
A recruiter contacted me the other day for a contractor position working at the Pentagon. It was a pretty specific set of experience they were looking for that I would have met. The pay range was $95-110k. I responded that I wasn't interested since I left my former government job to buy a business. Also, had I stayed there I would have been making a base salary of $85k in a much lower cost of living area. So at best it would have been break-even.


They mentioned it was hybrid so only two days in the office. So, I guess I could move to northern Virginia, find a reasonable place 20-30 miles away and commute in twice a week. But there's no way I'd consider moving or going back to work for the government (or anyone) unless they made it really worth my while. $150-200k/year and I'd definitely consider it.

I did respond that I wasn't interested in moving - certainly not at that salary range in D.C. I did mention I might be open to some remote consulting work (if they made it worth my while).
I'm typing this from a cubicle in the Pentagon.  Yeah, anything less than $125k/yr is shitty pay for a contractor gig in the building.  There are plenty of jobs (like mine) in your preferred range of $150-200k/year as a contractor.  I don't think I'd move here to take one of them though.  In my case we already lived just a few minutes from the Pentagon, so it's been pretty easy.

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2023, 08:58:49 AM »
I have to wonder if the jobs seem undesirable in large part due to the glamorous impression we have of tech jobs over the last decade.  High pay, free food, on-site amenities, dog parks, flexible hours, etc are all perks that were basically unheard of prior to the tech booms. Perhaps this isn't so much a case of bad jobs and more of a reversion to the mean?

Michael in ABQ

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2023, 12:37:38 PM »
A recruiter contacted me the other day for a contractor position working at the Pentagon. It was a pretty specific set of experience they were looking for that I would have met. The pay range was $95-110k. I responded that I wasn't interested since I left my former government job to buy a business. Also, had I stayed there I would have been making a base salary of $85k in a much lower cost of living area. So at best it would have been break-even.


They mentioned it was hybrid so only two days in the office. So, I guess I could move to northern Virginia, find a reasonable place 20-30 miles away and commute in twice a week. But there's no way I'd consider moving or going back to work for the government (or anyone) unless they made it really worth my while. $150-200k/year and I'd definitely consider it.

I did respond that I wasn't interested in moving - certainly not at that salary range in D.C. I did mention I might be open to some remote consulting work (if they made it worth my while).
I'm typing this from a cubicle in the Pentagon.  Yeah, anything less than $125k/yr is shitty pay for a contractor gig in the building.  There are plenty of jobs (like mine) in your preferred range of $150-200k/year as a contractor.  I don't think I'd move here to take one of them though.  In my case we already lived just a few minutes from the Pentagon, so it's been pretty easy.

No, I probably still wouldn't move even for that much. I might consider it at least. I'm running my own business that I purchased (with debt) so I can't just walk away from it. I'd either need to sell it first or spend a lot more time/money getting people in place to run it without my daily input.

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2023, 05:24:10 PM »
A recruiter contacted me the other day for a contractor position working at the Pentagon. It was a pretty specific set of experience they were looking for that I would have met. The pay range was $95-110k. I responded that I wasn't interested since I left my former government job to buy a business. Also, had I stayed there I would have been making a base salary of $85k in a much lower cost of living area. So at best it would have been break-even.


They mentioned it was hybrid so only two days in the office. So, I guess I could move to northern Virginia, find a reasonable place 20-30 miles away and commute in twice a week. But there's no way I'd consider moving or going back to work for the government (or anyone) unless they made it really worth my while. $150-200k/year and I'd definitely consider it.

I did respond that I wasn't interested in moving - certainly not at that salary range in D.C. I did mention I might be open to some remote consulting work (if they made it worth my while).
I'm typing this from a cubicle in the Pentagon.  Yeah, anything less than $125k/yr is shitty pay for a contractor gig in the building.  There are plenty of jobs (like mine) in your preferred range of $150-200k/year as a contractor.  I don't think I'd move here to take one of them though.  In my case we already lived just a few minutes from the Pentagon, so it's been pretty easy.

No, I probably still wouldn't move even for that much. I might consider it at least. I'm running my own business that I purchased (with debt) so I can't just walk away from it. I'd either need to sell it first or spend a lot more time/money getting people in place to run it without my daily input.

Niche DoD contractor here, cleared. In a technical specialty. I'd be making 180-250k in the NCR/DMV area. The same role pays 150-220k down here in the Tampa Bay area. But due to lack of cleared technical personnel, companies are paying more. Just negotiated a stupid high pay because a major joint command requires someone onsite and got tired of paying traveling consultants, demanded for someone local and agreed to a pay over their billets max.
I requested a stupid high pay because there's a pain premium built into it, working with military AND government AND contract bureaucracy.

In dealing with DoD contracting firms' recruiters all of 2022, realized I could keep asking for stupid pay, because eventually someone will pay. There's a lot of poaching in the DMV, and some of these companies are moving staff to commands in FL, as they can't fill billets down here with local "talent". They've tried to cheap out on pay, but I've pushed back, providing them with media reports and data of the crazy home/rent prices down here, cost of living comparisons. Good companies pay, bad companies fail to fill billets and lose them. Also, the SDVOSB companies pay better than the big dogs.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2023, 05:46:16 PM by jinga nation »

scottish

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2023, 01:58:40 PM »
working with military AND government AND contract bureaucracy.

Ugh.   No way I'd go back to that.   Nopey nopey nope no.

Villanelle

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2023, 02:23:14 PM »
A recruiter contacted me the other day for a contractor position working at the Pentagon. It was a pretty specific set of experience they were looking for that I would have met. The pay range was $95-110k. I responded that I wasn't interested since I left my former government job to buy a business. Also, had I stayed there I would have been making a base salary of $85k in a much lower cost of living area. So at best it would have been break-even.


They mentioned it was hybrid so only two days in the office. So, I guess I could move to northern Virginia, find a reasonable place 20-30 miles away and commute in twice a week. But there's no way I'd consider moving or going back to work for the government (or anyone) unless they made it really worth my while. $150-200k/year and I'd definitely consider it.

I did respond that I wasn't interested in moving - certainly not at that salary range in D.C. I did mention I might be open to some remote consulting work (if they made it worth my while).
I'm typing this from a cubicle in the Pentagon.  Yeah, anything less than $125k/yr is shitty pay for a contractor gig in the building.  There are plenty of jobs (like mine) in your preferred range of $150-200k/year as a contractor.  I don't think I'd move here to take one of them though.  In my case we already lived just a few minutes from the Pentagon, so it's been pretty easy.

No, I probably still wouldn't move even for that much. I might consider it at least. I'm running my own business that I purchased (with debt) so I can't just walk away from it. I'd either need to sell it first or spend a lot more time/money getting people in place to run it without my daily input.

Niche DoD contractor here, cleared. In a technical specialty. I'd be making 180-250k in the NCR/DMV area. The same role pays 150-220k down here in the Tampa Bay area. But due to lack of cleared technical personnel, companies are paying more. Just negotiated a stupid high pay because a major joint command requires someone onsite and got tired of paying traveling consultants, demanded for someone local and agreed to a pay over their billets max.
I requested a stupid high pay because there's a pain premium built into it, working with military AND government AND contract bureaucracy.

In dealing with DoD contracting firms' recruiters all of 2022, realized I could keep asking for stupid pay, because eventually someone will pay. There's a lot of poaching in the DMV, and some of these companies are moving staff to commands in FL, as they can't fill billets down here with local "talent". They've tried to cheap out on pay, but I've pushed back, providing them with media reports and data of the crazy home/rent prices down here, cost of living comparisons. Good companies pay, bad companies fail to fill billets and lose them. Also, the SDVOSB companies pay better than the big dogs.

I'm happy to read this.  DH is on the cusp of the stay-in/get-out decision, leaning heavily toward out. We are open to most locations.  DH is in a semi-unusual niche and has a few other great things going for him, but submitting a retirement letter before finding a job is still a bit scary for both of us.  Happy to hear the market is looking good! 

Michael in ABQ

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2023, 04:55:33 PM »
working with military AND government AND contract bureaucracy.

Ugh.   No way I'd go back to that.   Nopey nopey nope no.

Same. A couple of years working for the DoD with contractors was enough to turn me off forever. As a business owner I can do whatever I want in terms of hiring, firing, changing software, firing customers, etc. No bureaucracy to fight with and if I find a way to save money it goes straight into my pocket instead of being lost in the noise of the endless fraud, waste, and abuse.

lifeisshort123

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2023, 02:00:26 PM »
Be grateful they do all this stuff on the front end.

Last year I was recruited for two positions in my industry.  Both were positions that were at esteemed firms, and were considered ďstep upĒ from where I am now.

Both positions offered me embarrassingly bad contracts.  The first ended in a phone conversation with them furious at me saying they could have never offered me what I was making, and had they known they wouldnít have wasted my time.  Theyíd allied back a month later offering 10% more, and I turned them down again as it still wasnít the right offer.

A few months later, another company contacted me, and I interviewed.  They too offered a very low-ball package.  I happen to know the person who was in the role before me made close to double what they were offering.  I turned them down.  They also offered a generous 2% retirement contribution, instead of the 10% the predecessor was making.

Be glad they are just calling you or emailing you, and that you know where they stand on that stuff before you go there.  I am glad that in many industries the ďtalk about salary lastĒ world is finally coming to an end.  Saves everyoneís time.

rothwem

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2023, 09:10:01 AM »
Be grateful they do all this stuff on the front end.

I mean, in engineering it typically hasnít been done on the front end, but Iím forcing it there now with all these recruiters contacting me.

I got two contacts last week and I literally replied with, ďlocation and comp range pleaseĒ. Neither were to my liking so I thanked them and told them I wasnít interested.

One thing Iíve realized recently is that most of the recruiters out there have no idea what I actually do, or really, what any of the people they recruit do, so them trying to convince you to take a job based on the qualities of the role is a waste of time for both parties. They understand comp and location though, so Iíll speak their language.

HawkeyeNFO

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2023, 09:41:25 AM »
A recruiter contacted me the other day for a contractor position working at the Pentagon. It was a pretty specific set of experience they were looking for that I would have met. The pay range was $95-110k. I responded that I wasn't interested since I left my former government job to buy a business. Also, had I stayed there I would have been making a base salary of $85k in a much lower cost of living area. So at best it would have been break-even.


They mentioned it was hybrid so only two days in the office. So, I guess I could move to northern Virginia, find a reasonable place 20-30 miles away and commute in twice a week. But there's no way I'd consider moving or going back to work for the government (or anyone) unless they made it really worth my while. $150-200k/year and I'd definitely consider it.

I did respond that I wasn't interested in moving - certainly not at that salary range in D.C. I did mention I might be open to some remote consulting work (if they made it worth my while).
I'm typing this from a cubicle in the Pentagon.  Yeah, anything less than $125k/yr is shitty pay for a contractor gig in the building.  There are plenty of jobs (like mine) in your preferred range of $150-200k/year as a contractor.  I don't think I'd move here to take one of them though.  In my case we already lived just a few minutes from the Pentagon, so it's been pretty easy.

No, I probably still wouldn't move even for that much. I might consider it at least. I'm running my own business that I purchased (with debt) so I can't just walk away from it. I'd either need to sell it first or spend a lot more time/money getting people in place to run it without my daily input.

Niche DoD contractor here, cleared. In a technical specialty. I'd be making 180-250k in the NCR/DMV area. The same role pays 150-220k down here in the Tampa Bay area. But due to lack of cleared technical personnel, companies are paying more. Just negotiated a stupid high pay because a major joint command requires someone onsite and got tired of paying traveling consultants, demanded for someone local and agreed to a pay over their billets max.
I requested a stupid high pay because there's a pain premium built into it, working with military AND government AND contract bureaucracy.

In dealing with DoD contracting firms' recruiters all of 2022, realized I could keep asking for stupid pay, because eventually someone will pay. There's a lot of poaching in the DMV, and some of these companies are moving staff to commands in FL, as they can't fill billets down here with local "talent". They've tried to cheap out on pay, but I've pushed back, providing them with media reports and data of the crazy home/rent prices down here, cost of living comparisons. Good companies pay, bad companies fail to fill billets and lose them. Also, the SDVOSB companies pay better than the big dogs.

I'm happy to read this.  DH is on the cusp of the stay-in/get-out decision, leaning heavily toward out. We are open to most locations.  DH is in a semi-unusual niche and has a few other great things going for him, but submitting a retirement letter before finding a job is still a bit scary for both of us.  Happy to hear the market is looking good!
An active security clearance is the ticket to the dance.  I was retired for several months before I even started to look for a job.  I had accepted a job working for a 3-letter agency around the Beltway, but then my current job fell into my lap.  Had to call the other guys back and rescind my job acceptance, and they were like "call us back if you ever change your mind."  Your DH should have no problem finding a well-paying job.

Villanelle

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #44 on: March 30, 2023, 12:40:18 PM »
A recruiter contacted me the other day for a contractor position working at the Pentagon. It was a pretty specific set of experience they were looking for that I would have met. The pay range was $95-110k. I responded that I wasn't interested since I left my former government job to buy a business. Also, had I stayed there I would have been making a base salary of $85k in a much lower cost of living area. So at best it would have been break-even.


They mentioned it was hybrid so only two days in the office. So, I guess I could move to northern Virginia, find a reasonable place 20-30 miles away and commute in twice a week. But there's no way I'd consider moving or going back to work for the government (or anyone) unless they made it really worth my while. $150-200k/year and I'd definitely consider it.

I did respond that I wasn't interested in moving - certainly not at that salary range in D.C. I did mention I might be open to some remote consulting work (if they made it worth my while).
I'm typing this from a cubicle in the Pentagon.  Yeah, anything less than $125k/yr is shitty pay for a contractor gig in the building.  There are plenty of jobs (like mine) in your preferred range of $150-200k/year as a contractor.  I don't think I'd move here to take one of them though.  In my case we already lived just a few minutes from the Pentagon, so it's been pretty easy.

No, I probably still wouldn't move even for that much. I might consider it at least. I'm running my own business that I purchased (with debt) so I can't just walk away from it. I'd either need to sell it first or spend a lot more time/money getting people in place to run it without my daily input.

Niche DoD contractor here, cleared. In a technical specialty. I'd be making 180-250k in the NCR/DMV area. The same role pays 150-220k down here in the Tampa Bay area. But due to lack of cleared technical personnel, companies are paying more. Just negotiated a stupid high pay because a major joint command requires someone onsite and got tired of paying traveling consultants, demanded for someone local and agreed to a pay over their billets max.
I requested a stupid high pay because there's a pain premium built into it, working with military AND government AND contract bureaucracy.

In dealing with DoD contracting firms' recruiters all of 2022, realized I could keep asking for stupid pay, because eventually someone will pay. There's a lot of poaching in the DMV, and some of these companies are moving staff to commands in FL, as they can't fill billets down here with local "talent". They've tried to cheap out on pay, but I've pushed back, providing them with media reports and data of the crazy home/rent prices down here, cost of living comparisons. Good companies pay, bad companies fail to fill billets and lose them. Also, the SDVOSB companies pay better than the big dogs.

I'm happy to read this.  DH is on the cusp of the stay-in/get-out decision, leaning heavily toward out. We are open to most locations.  DH is in a semi-unusual niche and has a few other great things going for him, but submitting a retirement letter before finding a job is still a bit scary for both of us.  Happy to hear the market is looking good!
An active security clearance is the ticket to the dance.  I was retired for several months before I even started to look for a job.  I had accepted a job working for a 3-letter agency around the Beltway, but then my current job fell into my lap.  Had to call the other guys back and rescind my job acceptance, and they were like "call us back if you ever change your mind."  Your DH should have no problem finding a well-paying job.

He has that, and even a current poly, which I know is a nice little supplemental ticket.  His main concern seems to be that he's a mile wide and an inch deep on a lot of subjects, but it seems many places have plenty of nerds, they just need people who can understand the nerds and herd them appropriately.  (BTW, he's a brown-shoe wearer, which I assume you are, too, based on your user name. )

We are in the DC area, but definitely not wedded to staying here.  Pretty open to most locations, really. 

HawkeyeNFO

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2023, 12:38:10 PM »
Lots of jobs, then.  I'd not worry at all.  Maybe even take a year off before looking.  Big decision to make for a retired officer is whether you want to work for government (less travel, very predictable schedule) or for industry (usually more travel away from home, and with a business development job he could make way more money).

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2023, 01:33:26 PM »
I've seen an uptick over the last few months in LinkedIn emails inviting me to apply for different jobs.  I don't know if they are crappy jobs or not because I delete them right away. 

Fortunately I have not been receiving any recruiter phone calls.

Villanelle

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2023, 01:35:22 PM »
Lots of jobs, then.  I'd not worry at all.  Maybe even take a year off before looking.  Big decision to make for a retired officer is whether you want to work for government (less travel, very predictable schedule) or for industry (usually more travel away from home, and with a business development job he could make way more money).

He's decidedly anti-BD.  Or at least active BD, in the sense of reaching out to strangers and virtual strangers. *Maybe* business capture.  GS is the easy button, but of course the compensation isn't nearly as good.  He's hoping to stay in his current specific niche (I'd rather than say what here on the forum) and there are certainly a ton of defense companies, are defense adjunct, that would scratch that itch, as well as GS, and contractor jobs. 

Anyway, thanks for the positive reenforcement!  He needs it (and I will share it with him). 

asauer

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Re: Lots of recruiters contacting me...with shitty jobs. What's going on?
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2023, 07:03:48 AM »
I'm in HR and even I've gotten a bunch of really bad pitches from recruiters in the last few months- most from TX and FL from some reason.  I'm like, let's not try to scam an insider. Joking aside, I think now that the market has cooled, some of these more exploitative companies/ industries are taking advantage.