Longevity and fertility

[RetiredAt63]

From the thread on longevity: Interesting point on the web site - "Late motherhood seems to favour longevity"

Not sure how to set up the poll format, so let's just chime in - what is your expected longevity and when did you have your first/last child.  Guys, you can answer for your wives if they are not on here already.
And it would be interesting to look at our parents, since we may have a better idea for them.

To tie it in with MMM philosophy, our retirement planning is certainly affected by our life expectancy! And our finances are affected by children; they cost when little, are there for us when we are old (even if our finances are great, there are the caring aspects).

[RetiredAt63]

I'll start us off ;-)

First/last child at 39, life expectancy close to 100.  Healthy, no one thinks of me as being even close to my age (guesses are consistently 10 years younger).

Mother - first child at 33, second at 36, died of an illness at 71.  Her mother had 5 children (not sure of her age but last one had to have been when she was in her 40's), died at 93, sharp almost to the end.

Two childless aunts, both into their 90's.

[socaso]

First child at 37, trying for a second now at 39 and that will be the last! Most people, male and female, in my family live into their early 80's and I expect about the same. I work with lots of women in their 20's and they are always shocked to learn my age and consistently tell me they thought I was 7-10 years younger.

My mother was 26 when I was born and 30 for the last of her 3 children. She's 65 and her doctor says she's one of his healthiest patients.

[DollarBill]

I'm 39 now with on kids. I'm doing well but feel I'm missing out and would love to have a kid. I'm not currently dating so I doubt it ever happens.   

[brewer12345]

Life expectancy in our 90s (assuming I do not just shoulder my pack and rifle and wander away into the woods one day rather than consigning myself to senility, degenerative diseases and a nursing home).  Eldest born 17 days before DW turned 31.  Second/last kid born 8 days before DW turned 33.

All 4 of my and DW's parents are still around and in their 70s.  My dad had a heart attack in his 60s (largely due to lifestyle choices), my mom is heavy but otherwise mostly in one piece.  DW's dad has Parkinson's and is about halfway down the spiral.  Her mom is in good shape and will be around at least another 20 years is my guess.

[Kepler]

My life expectancy is uncertain - I can't extrapolate from my family history, as I have a chromosomal abnormality (Turner Syndrome), which normally knocks 13 years off life expectancy.  However, Turner also usually causes infertility (95%) and, for the small percentage who manage to ovulate, there's usually a very short window before infertility hits in the early 20s.  I had my first child at 34, my second at 42, and still not menopausal, so I'm evidently one for the medical journals...  In reality, the issue will be that, in the days before cheap genetic testing, you would only ever have been diagnosed with Turner Syndrome if you had a severe version of it - those diagnosed earliest have obvious (but harmless) physical differences, then there is a further wave of diagnoses in adolescence for those who never start menstruating, then a trailing diagnosis of women who experience fertility issues - if you don't have any of those problems, there's no real reason to test for the condition - thus reinforcing the impression that it has specific medical consequences, since those consequences are what leads to diagnosis.

I found out about my own condition completely by accident.  There are new blood tests for chromosomal disorders in foetuses - I had one with my last pregnancy.  They rely on a contrast between expected values in the mother's blood, and expected values added by the foetus.  Deviations from those expected values usually indicate problems in the foetus, but they can obviously also indicate problems in the mother.  So there I was, looking at a test result telling me that the results might be indicative of Turner, looking up systematic reviews in medical journals and reading off lists of what to expect.  I found a really good list of possible medical consequence and read down it and I kept going, "Oh, that medical issue is no big deal - I have that myself - I could helping a child learn to manage that."  I found myself having this reaction sequentially, moving down the list - at about the fifth item, it dawned on me that I was almost certainly the person with the condition, not my child... :-P.

So, there are some medical issues - they're quite diverse, and I had never thought they'd be connected (who thinks a tendency toward ear infections, very mild scoliosis, a visual perception difficulty processing depth information, thyroid issues, etc., etc. would be related?).  It's been useful to know - particularly in enabling me to advise health care professionals what to watch put for.  But the literature on long-term outcomes is essentially useless for me, because people like me aren't yet accounted for in it...

Still if late childbearing - against the odds, even! - is a good thing, I'm all over that... ;-)

[BFGirl]

This topic reminds me of a legal principle dealing with "the fertile octogenarian"  :)

[Primm]

First child at 22, second and last at 25, according to the calculator (and we know if it's on the internet it must be true) my estimated age span is 91.

My mother had me at 38, my sister at 40 and was dead by 42. Statistical outlier? I had my children nearly 20 years earlier and have already outlived her.

[RetiredAt63]

yeah - I put a lot more faith in my healthy ancestors and my own good health than I do in online questionnaires.  Not to mention I drive carefully, wear my helmet when cycling, don't climb rickety ladders, etc.  Stupidity and carelessness kill, look at the Darwin awards.

(and we know if it's on the internet it must be true)

[grantmeaname]

What website said this? Is it an academic study or something Dr. Oz mentioned offhand once?

[teen persuasion]

From the thread on longevity: Interesting point on the web site - "Late motherhood seems to favour longevity"

My OB mentioned the same thing, when during the family history discussion I told her of my maternal grandmother - 9 children, youngest born when she was 46, and a miscarriage in her 50's.  Grandma died in her early 70's, while her younger unmarried/childless sister lived to 102!

My life expectancy per the website is 101.  First child at 23, fifth at nearly 38.  Mom: first at 27, fourth at 35, still healthy at 73.  Mom's oldest sister is also healthy and active at 90.  She seems more like 65, if you didn't know her age.

[soccerluvof4]

77 or 87 if i don't sun tan reduce my coffee intake by 1 cup a day and eat a bit more nuts.

First child I was 20

Restart, Remarried

First child this time around 34, Second child 36, third child 39, fourth child 41 . Take  3 years off for my wife being 3 years younger.


My father is alive 73 and healthy as can be. My mother would be alive if she would of taken her HB meds. I found at least 10 pill bottles with 1 or 2 taken out and that was it.

Both my wifes parents 76 and 73 still alive and well.

[RetiredAt63]

It is from the website (http://www.mylongevity.com.au) referred to in the thread "Life expectancy - what are your thoughts?"  I found a few articles as well, some on people, some on animals. 

Of course we are not a large or unbiased sample, so any trends we see won't really mean a lot.  Also, delaying parenthood might be one more symptom of an ability to delay gratification, which means we not only capable of delaying gratification, but we trust the future.

From an ecological viewpoint, populations/species which generally have short life expectancies tend to reproduce early, while those with longer life expectancies tend to invest in their own resources first, and then reproduce - think of the difference between an annual and a sequoia.  So for people the causal relationship may not be what seems to be implied.  It may well be that those who expect to live a long time (family history, trust in the future) feel they can afford to wait, while those who expect to die young (for whatever reason) may want to reproduce at a younger age.

What website said this? Is it an academic study or something Dr. Oz mentioned offhand once?

[teen persuasion]

From my discussion with my OB, I got the impression that  "Late motherhood seems to favour longevity" meant the age at which you had your last child, i.e. the converse was that early menopause/fertility problems = poor health which correlates to early death.  I did not get the impression that it had anything to do with delaying having children.

[RetiredAt63]

@serpentstooth  The little I read didn't make it clear whether they were looking at age for first or last child - and certainly, part of it was that they were looking at effects of prolonged estrogen production.  If a woman is still having children well into her 40's, she is definitely still producing hormones  ;-).  If she delays her first child (on purpose, as opposed to just not being in a position to get pregnant) then there are all sorts of social things going on in her life, which may well affect her longevity. 

And kudos for the "neotenous", love seeing biospeak ( I just made that up, what do we call technical terminology in Biology when we are in a non-biology forum?)

@teen persuasion  I suppose it depends - if the last child is not very late because of health issues, that is a separate consideration from the last child not being late because the couple made sure there were no more.  Certainly "natural" early menopause implies the body is aging faster than usual.  Historically it is hard to see trends, because we have this other trend happening of puberty arriving earlier and earlier, and people having much more control over their fertility.

[rachael talcott]

Here's a study addressing fertility (in general) and longevity:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2829636/

[MrsPete]

Without having read these particular studies, I'll point out something rather obvious: 

One of the big reasons women delay childbearing is because they're in college (and then are establishing themselves professionally, buying a house, saving money).  A woman who graduates from college is likely to earn more money over the course of her lifetime.  A college graduate with access to money is more likely to be aware of healthy habits and is more likely to get treatment when she does become ill.  Educated, middle and upper class women are more likely to use birth control effectively and are more likely to purposefully wait until they're "ready" -- "ready" meaning husband, house, job, money -- before they have children.  They wait until they have support and stability in their lives:  Support and stability lead to less stress, more time for family . . . a better life, a longer life. 

In contrast, a woman who becomes a mother too soon -- I'm thinking extremes, like a teenaged mother -- will almost certainly have some stressful years while she grows up too soon:  She's more likely to be on Welfare, less likely to finish school, more likely to raise the child on her own.  When she's short on money, she's going to eat boxed mac-and-cheese and Ramen noodles instead of fresh salads and lean meats.  She's more likely to miss her own mammograms and other "well visits".  Add this factor:  A teenager who has a baby before 16 is likely to have another two children before she turns 21 (my teens have been watching Teen Mom lately, and my youngest was particularly scandalized at this fact -- She keeps saying, "She's having another baby!  Don't they SEE what this is doing to their lives?  Don't they learn?" A teen mom's life is much less likely to be spent in a white picket fence house.  It's no surprise that she's probably not going to live as many years.

But it's not because of the age when she gave birth; rather, it's because of the lifestyle she is able to build around her because she's raising a child.  Correlation, not causation.

[RetiredAt63]

@mrspete   I agree completely.  But I think they are looking at even later births in this context - i.e 30s as opposed to late 20s. And to some extent to age at last child, since health can have a big impact here (so can lots of social factors).  It seems to be a field just crying out for more research, with lots of attention paid to confounding variables.

Also, just as an aside, I think we have fallen into an outlook of putting children off while we get established.  But one of the most successful women I know had her two children while she was a grad student - flexible hours, on-campus housing, lots of good day-care.  Her children were in school by the time she graduated, she was all set for her career, and the children were on their own long before she and her husband were thinking about retirement. From the mustachian viewpoint, having children while you are young and struggling is certainly a good way to have them grow up without a sense of entitlement.

I think I just hijacked my own thread ;-)