Author Topic: Long Term Care Insurance - 134% Premium Increase  (Read 2210 times)

desertadapted

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Long Term Care Insurance - 134% Premium Increase
« on: October 28, 2020, 09:59:54 PM »
I figured I'd share a brief cautionary tale about long term care insurance (LTCI).  To start, my family is well-insured.  Maybe its an occupational hazard from having spent my formative professional years as a lawyer.  In my mid-30's a nationwide insurance company sold Group LTCI to folks where I was working.  For someone who got in early (e.g., mid-30's), the rates were attractive, particularly with a family history of needing long term care.  So I decided to make a long-term play using a rough calculation of my premiums over a 50 year period, what I could make in the stock market, and what I guessed was the likelihood of needing long term care.  Also, while attractive, the LTCI rates were high enough in comparison to, say, term life, that it at least appeared that the insurance company had worked through the costs and would be viable.  The decision was further informed by our knowledge at the time that for those in our parent's generation, LTCI couldn't be purchased for any affordable price.  Getting in young was the only way to make it affordable.

So my spouse and I bought in.  Not too many years later, the company got out of the LTCI business, stopping selling new group policies.  This is a common phenomenon, apparently. What followed was a letter including a material-but-not-shocking premium increase that was explained along the lines of "we need to make sure we can cover all claims on this group policy, and this is the rate we think we'll need to do it."   So we swallowed that premium increase and thought nothing more of it, believing that the national insurance company had done its actuarial work and come up with the rate that was going to work.  And in a shrinking LTCI market, we had done the smart thing by getting in while there was still getting to be got.

Seven years later,  and quite recently, I received notice that our premiums would be going up 134%.  This shift fundamentally changes the calculus of risk vs. cost vs. self-insurance.   It is also apparent that there is nothing stopping any further premium increases.  Spread over maybe 40 more years, its a lot of money.  As a consequence, we will be cancelling the policy and self-insuring.

As part of this process, I've left a lot of money (shocking when I added it up) on the table that isn't coming back, as there was little to no risk I would need the LTCI during the relevant ~10 years.  But I can't ignore the sunk cost fallacy. 

I'm aware that there are those on this forum with strong anti-insurance views.  I don't share them.  I have health insurance, car insurance, homeowner's insurance, a modest umbrella policy, and will keep term life while I still have kids in the home.  But this was a hell of a mistake and I'm hoping that others learn from my error and the money I left on the table.  Where I live, and my research indicates lots of places, insurance commissioners will not stand in the way of massive rate increases for LTCI.  So if you presently have it, or are considering buying it, please bear in mind my experience.  There doesn't appear to be anything that prevents triple-digit group-wide premium increases. 

Thanks for letting me vent!  I will accept face punches for having gone down this rabbit hole in the first place . . .


iluvzbeach

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Re: Long Term Care Insurance - 134% Premium Increase
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2020, 10:27:46 PM »
I’m sorry that you are dealing with this, at the same time I’m not surprised it happened.

Out of curiosity, does your plan have a provision that allows you to get back all premiums paid to date, if you elect not to continue the policy? I ask because my mom has a policy that offers this feature. Her rates go up most years (but nowhere near as much as what you experienced) and so far we’ve continued paying the premiums as she’s at high risk for needing the insurance and likely in the not-too-distant future.

Although return of premiums would not net you as much as if you’d invested those same funds over the past 10 years, at least you’d get your money back and be able to invest it now.

desertadapted

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Re: Long Term Care Insurance - 134% Premium Increase
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2020, 10:43:29 PM »
@iluvzbeach sadly, no.  But a good idea.

wageslave23

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Re: Long Term Care Insurance - 134% Premium Increase
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2020, 03:01:02 PM »
Are there any companies that offer policies that have guaranteed fixed premiums?

scottish

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Re: Long Term Care Insurance - 134% Premium Increase
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2020, 03:24:30 PM »
Those are the ones that fall into bankruptcy right before you need them!

Paul der Krake

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Re: Long Term Care Insurance - 134% Premium Increase
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2020, 03:43:48 PM »
As a rule of thumb, I don't consider insurance products that:
1) are prime for selection bias
2) require keeping the faith in the underwriter for a long period of time

LTC meets both criterias.

If I need long term care, I will either self pay, or die in some level of pain, like billions of humans that died before me. I'm okay with that outcome. We all die eventually.

norajean

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Re: Long Term Care Insurance - 134% Premium Increase
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2020, 03:52:25 PM »
I am pro-insurance but everything I have ever read about long term care policies suggest they are very poor value.  Your story confirms this.  Sorry for your loss.

ericrugiero

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Re: Long Term Care Insurance - 134% Premium Increase
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2020, 07:10:20 AM »
My grandparents have passed away now but they had long term care insurance.  They both spent the last 3-4 years of their life in a nursing home which the LTCI paid for.  For them, it was a good investment.  But, I have heard that the LTC policies you can buy now aren't nearly as good as the one they bought. 

This is a good reminder to read the policy carefully and really understand what you are buying. 

Monkey Uncle

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Re: Long Term Care Insurance - 134% Premium Increase
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2020, 07:39:50 AM »
The potential for this very scenario is why I passed on LTCI.  I've built a generic buffer into my overall budget that should compound over time and will serve as a safety net for LTC and other low probability/high consequence events.  In the unlikely event that my wife or I need years of care, the buffer probably won't be enough, and we'll be doing what most Americans do to fund LTC: Medicaid.

CoffeeR

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Re: Long Term Care Insurance - 134% Premium Increase
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2020, 06:35:51 PM »
I am pro-insurance but everything I have ever read about long term care policies suggest they are very poor value.  Your story confirms this.  Sorry for your loss.
LTCI *currently* are a lousy value proposition. I would love to purchase one, but the ones offered these days are crap (and I am being kind in my assessment). They used to be a good value, but insurance companies badly underestimated the amount they would need to pay out and the old LTCI insurance policies were a big money looser for the insurance industry.

That at least is the story insurance companies tell.

Given the cost of LTCI, I can believe it is partially true.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2020, 12:00:58 PM by CoffeeR »

Pennsylvanian

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Re: Long Term Care Insurance - 134% Premium Increase
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2020, 08:51:52 AM »
I think I got in on one of the last pretty good LTC policy offers. It is a Genworth policy offered through AARP and they stopped offering it something like 3 weeks after we got approved. You pay premiums for 10 years and then the policy is considered "funded". I think the max payout is for three years, which is statistically longer than the average care home stay. We got a multi-policy discount and are on our 7th year, I think. They can up the premiums by up to a max of 50% of our original premiums after 5 years, but so far have not. Hopefully we won't need it, but with the 10-pay scheme the total outlay for both of us combined is something around $30k. I see that as a pretty good hedge considering the cost of even a few months in a facility. I feel lucky that we got in under the wire; hopefully Genworth stays in business.

dresden

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Re: Long Term Care Insurance - 134% Premium Increase
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2020, 12:04:23 PM »
One thing for sure - if you selected an inflation adjustment option when you signed up years ago never accept the inflation adjustment because the rate for that extra money is based on current rates not pro-rata based on what you are paying which is regulated and controlled.

In my case I purchased long-term care in my late 30s and am paying 600/year in my 50s for 300/day coverage.  The company I bought from has written off 20MM in losses on those policies so I am not inclined to think it's a bad deal, especially for me as someone with spinal injuries from a car accident.  At this point I have it not for myself but for my wife and one son so they aren't burdened with dealing with things if my health goes south.

Value of these policies are highly subjective, but it certainly doesn't make sense to pay for the policy unless the insured will actually use the service if needed.