Author Topic: Lincoln Financial - a cautionary tale  (Read 8539 times)

Mrs. Fire Lane

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Lincoln Financial - a cautionary tale
« on: April 10, 2024, 01:57:12 PM »
Greetings Fellow Mustachians,

My mother is getting on in years and I have gradually taken on her finances per her request. I now have Power of Attorney and am using it to help her the best I can. Most of it is just balancing her checkbook and paying her bills but other things come up from time to time.

In 2006 my mom inherited a portfolio of stocks and bonds from a family member. She and my Dad transferred it to First Eagle. They had an advisor that my Dad knew tangentially. As my husband and I went into our FI journey I thought about my parents' investments. They divorced in 2014 and I offered to take a look. At first my mom said "But I trust my guy! He went to Stanford." I asked if he was a fiduciary but she didn't care to learn what that means or why it's important. My husband noticed he was charging her $75 a month to buy random bonds but she wouldn't listen. She was getting a few hundred a month in dividends so we let it go. 

Eventually my mom realized maybe we did know what we were talking about with regards to money. Since the markets were down and she wasn't making dividends like she used to, she asked for help. She had an accountant who was in business for himself and we spoke with him about transferring my mom's portfolio to mostly Vanguard index funds and some bonds. We asked for something that was "set it and forget it." He said he would do that and told my husband how smart he was. We assumed he did what we asked.

That was not the case.

This past October 2023 my mom asked me to look at her statement from Lincoln Financial, the firm her accountant had used. She said it didn't seem right and she hadn't made any money. I was surprised as the market had been going up and we had made money. Her portfolio was allocated similarly to ours, right?

Wrong! The money had been put into two different bond funds and an "Adaptive Intelligence Model" stock fund.

Quote
"Adaptive Intelligence Model (AIM) recognizes the importance of a forward-thinking approach to investing.  The discipline utilizes a an Asset Alocation Nueral Network (AANN) that makes predictions as to the potential relative strength of asset classes representing the major domestic and international equity and debt sectors.  AANN adapts and learns from past expereince by reviewing thousands of historical inputs, and identifying and interpreting patterns and casual relationships as they relate to these major domestic and international equity and debt markets.  the AIM Index Portfolios combine the benefits of a tactically managed portfolio with the broad diversification featues of Vanguard index funds."

[Spelling errors original.]

For this they were charging $500 a month in fees. My mom's portfolio made almost exactly that amount last year and she got none of it, even though she had to pay capital gains taxes. When we realized this we were outraged. When we explained it to my mother she agreed to let us take over her portfolio management.

I opened an account with Vanguard on her behalf in early November and got the paperwork to initiate an in-kind transfer. We needed to get a medallion signature guarantee which required going in person to a bank that offered this service. This took a few weeks to align my schedule with my mother's and the bank's and we had it delivered to Vanguard by December 29, 2023.

A few weeks later I got a notice from Vanguard that we couldn't transfer one of the Lincoln bond funds. So we called Lincoln, sold it and hoped the rest of the money (about $400K) would be transferred soon. $5K from the bonds was immediately available but we would have to wait for the rest.

Also at this time we had a bit of a fiasco with Vanguard. My mom is older and does not use technology. She can accept FaceTime calls and read emails and that's it. She doesn't know how to text, send an email, use the web, etc. I only set up online banking for her last year. She doesn't really trust it. Duing a call with Vanguard around this time they asked her the security questions I had set up for her. They were really easy things but she got confused as to why someone from a bank was asking about her personal life and thought it was a scam, and didn't want to answer. This locked her account until we could call back and have her answer correctly. This happened twice. Even though I set up an email for her various needs she doesn't care to remember the email address, since she only uses it to read our church newsletter and see pictures of my son I send her. The login is saved on her iPad so she never has to think about it. Just a note of caution if you have elders you are helping, explain in detail what security questions are and why a banker will ask them.

On March 6 we called Vanguard. We had gotten a strange letter from Lincoln which stated they couldn't do the transfer unless they had the PIN number (?) of all funds requested. Vanguard staff seemed really perplexed by this and said this was not standard practice at all. They called Lincoln with us on the line. The Lincoln staff member said that they didn't need the PIN numbers after all and there was one more bond that couldn't be transferred and then they would send the rest of the portfolio. The money from that bond ($15K) was transferred immediately and they told us that a transfer of the entire portfolio had been initiated on February 13 and should be completed in 4 - 6 weeks.

On April 5, over seven weeks after the transfer was supposedly initiated, we still didn't have the money. We called Vanguard again and they called Lincoln with us on the line. Lincoln said that the transfer was initiated but not confirmed or completed and they couldn't tell me why even though I pressed for details and asked them to explain this, several times. Imagine someone telling you they "don't know" where $400K is. They said the money would be there in 10 business days. I told them I was looking into filing a complaint. That afternoon my husband and I filed a FINRA complaint on my mom's behalf.

This morning the money was finally there. I'm glad this is over and look forward to my mom having some extra money that's not all going to someone who audaciously took advantage.

I want to ask Lincoln to refund my mom any fees charged since January 1 (about two thousand dollars) but I'm not sure I have a case to do so.

Please never use Lincoln Financial. Your money would be better in a mattress.

Chris Pascale

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Re: Lincoln Financial - a cautionary tale
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2024, 03:32:43 PM »
I bet you can get the fees back because you have stuff in writing.

This reminds me of the months it took us to end the timeshare relationship for a grandparent. It took signatures from people in multiple states, as well as a POA, and in the end, they tried to see if grandma (who was in hospice) would take the bait on an updated agreement.

That finally sealed the deal because my friend who was my lawyer (I had to have my lawyer talk to their lawyer) gave them hell over it, and promised that we'd file a suit that went to a jury to put everything into the record, and then he'd quit his job to run a class action against them.

FireLane

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Re: Lincoln Financial - a cautionary tale
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2024, 04:36:21 PM »
Just my perspective as someone tangentially involved in this process:

Mrs. FL's mom has zero ability to use a computer and refuses to learn. Questions like "What is your e-mail address?" are baffling and scary to her, and she shuts down when confronted with anything she doesn't understand. Think of the witness protection scene from The Simpsons, and you'll have a pretty good idea of her actual performance. That delayed the process at several key points.

Even so, the main impediment was Lincoln Financial's foot-dragging. When we initiated the in-kind transfer, they told us it would take four to six weeks. From the perspective of someone who used to work in the financial industry, there's no step, either in the plumbing of the stock market or legally, that has to take this long. And then they couldn't keep their own self-imposed deadline!

Obviously, they have no reason to make this process go quickly. Every month of delay is another month they get to collect their fees. It may be a coincidence, but I sure find it suspicious that as soon as we filed a FINRA complaint, the money showed up in the new Vanguard account.

Investment firms like this are the last remnant of the pre-Vanguard era. They rake in fat fees for questionable performance, and they have an incentive to make investing seem too complicated for the average person, so that retirees hand over their money and don't ask too many questions. I consider myself financially savvy and I found most of the forms they sent almost impossible to understand.

Low-cost indexing is like a meteor impact wiping out the dinosaurs of the investment industry, and it can't come too soon. I'm happy to have done my small part in driving them to extinction.

Catbert

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Re: Lincoln Financial - a cautionary tale
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2024, 11:34:33 AM »
Going forward I would use that POA to make it your email address and phone number rather than your mom's.  I'm not blaming you or her for the delay since we all know the biggest problem was Lincoln Financial. Going forward getting her quarterly statements direct and fielding any inquiries from Vanguard will make things go smoother.

Definitely pursue getting fees waived and filing a complaint.

Edited to add:  Fidelity has an alternative to using a POA (especially if you have a common estate planning POA that only comes into force if two doctors certify incapacity).  Maybe Vanguard has something similar.

https://www.fidelity.com/customer-service/how-to-manage-your-full-authority-rights
« Last Edit: April 11, 2024, 12:14:35 PM by Catbert »

wageslave23

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Re: Lincoln Financial - a cautionary tale
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2024, 12:20:19 PM »
That sucks and it happens all the time with my clients. Congratulations on finally clearing it all up.

On a side note, I don't understand why aging individuals who don't care to learn about investing are so reluctant to hand control or take advice from children who do know this stuff like the back of their hand. If I decline mentally or technology changes too much, I'd be happy to hand my finances over to a son or daughter who loves this stuff and I trust. Sometimes I consider telling my parents just how much money I have saved up so they truly realize how much I know what I'm talking about. I mean they know I work in the financial industry and that I'm obsessed with investing but they still say ,"well uncle so and so said..." I want to say, well uncle so and so lives on social security and had to borrow money from his mom to buy a townhouse at the age of 60.

achvfi

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Re: Lincoln Financial - a cautionary tale
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2024, 12:46:40 PM »
Yeah, congrats on clearing it up and thanks for posting.

With over 70 trillion dollars in assets I cant imagine how big of an opportunity are our older generation for companies/parasites like this.

Mrs. Fire Lane

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Re: Lincoln Financial - a cautionary tale
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2024, 01:21:11 PM »
On a side note, I don't understand why aging individuals who don't care to learn about investing are so reluctant to hand control or take advice from children who do know this stuff like the back of their hand. If I decline mentally or technology changes too much, I'd be happy to hand my finances over to a son or daughter who loves this stuff and I trust. Sometimes I consider telling my parents just how much money I have saved up so they truly realize how much I know what I'm talking about. I mean they know I work in the financial industry and that I'm obsessed with investing but they still say ,"well uncle so and so said..." I want to say, well uncle so and so lives on social security and had to borrow money from his mom to buy a townhouse at the age of 60.

Well part of it is that when my husband worked full time he was a software engineer and I have a degree in public policy and administration and work for a nonprofit so we don't seem qualified.

The other thing is we don't live like millionaires. Or rather what people think millionaires live like. I was joking around with my brother once that I much preferred "tax the rich" to "eat the rich" and he said "Why? You live in a closet." People have no idea even though they could probably figure it out if they paid attention, we live in NYC with just me working part time but take frequent vacations and never talk about student loans or the like. I have a few nice pieces of jewelry and don't buy more, I don't wear designer clothes. We bought a new car in 2011 and plan to run it into the ground... Maybe if I got an upgraded ring from Tiffany and we bought a new Tesla people would listen. (LOL)

bacchi

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Re: Lincoln Financial - a cautionary tale
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2024, 03:26:25 PM »
On a side note, I don't understand why aging individuals who don't care to learn about investing are so reluctant to hand control or take advice from children who do know this stuff like the back of their hand. If I decline mentally or technology changes too much, I'd be happy to hand my finances over to a son or daughter who loves this stuff and I trust. Sometimes I consider telling my parents just how much money I have saved up so they truly realize how much I know what I'm talking about. I mean they know I work in the financial industry and that I'm obsessed with investing but they still say ,"well uncle so and so said..." I want to say, well uncle so and so lives on social security and had to borrow money from his mom to buy a townhouse at the age of 60.

Well part of it is that when my husband worked full time he was a software engineer and I have a degree in public policy and administration and work for a nonprofit so we don't seem qualified.

The other thing is we don't live like millionaires. Or rather what people think millionaires live like. I was joking around with my brother once that I much preferred "tax the rich" to "eat the rich" and he said "Why? You live in a closet." People have no idea even though they could probably figure it out if they paid attention, we live in NYC with just me working part time but take frequent vacations and never talk about student loans or the like. I have a few nice pieces of jewelry and don't buy more, I don't wear designer clothes. We bought a new car in 2011 and plan to run it into the ground... Maybe if I got an upgraded ring from Tiffany and we bought a new Tesla people would listen. (LOL)

Same.

With a private pension and social security my parents have more income than they spend. I tried to convince them to buy iBonds a few years ago but they don't trust me -- I'm "unemployed," despite protestations to the contrary. They'd rather leave any excess money in a checking account earning 0.01%.

Mrs. Fire Lane

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Re: Lincoln Financial - a cautionary tale
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2024, 03:49:53 PM »
Update - as people here seemed generally supportive I called Lincoln and asked for their fees charged in 2024 to be refunded to my mother. At first they said no, because they didn't get the paperwork until February 6. I said this was fair but if that was the case then the fees from February and March should be refunded. The Lincoln employee told me at first that just because we didn't sell the bonds fast enough that doesn't mean they shouldn't charge fees. I said no, the fact that the paperwork said to transfer the entire account should indicate that my mother no longer wants Lincoln managing her money and no fees should have been charged. Then I said that when we called the week before that I was told that her co worker "did not know" why the transfer did not go through. I said "'I don't know' is a pretty powerful statement about $400,000." She paused and then said "I see what you mean. Let me speak to my manager."

I was put on hold for about 10 minutes and when she came back she told me that she spoke to compliance (!) and they just dealt with this same issue with another client (!!) and they would refund the fees from February and March.

Also there's still somehow a few hundred dollars in bonds in the account. Once the fees have been refunded I will sell them and close the account. I am amazed a Lincoln employee ADMITTED to me that this has happened more than once.

LongtimeLurker

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Re: Lincoln Financial - a cautionary tale
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2024, 11:44:32 AM »
I suppose this story should make me see the silver lining in having parents who are so broke they cant be scammed.

Mrs. Fire Lane

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Re: Lincoln Financial - a cautionary tale
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2024, 12:03:06 PM »
Update 2: After waiting about a month for the refunded fees to be transferred to my mom's Vanguard as the Lincoln employee told me they would be, I logged onto her Lincoln account and found out they were there and it was only $200. My records indicate the fees charged in February and March were over $600 but I'm done arguing about this. I called and closed the account. Hopefully she will have the remaining $700 from one bond fund and the fees by early next week.

I'm glad this is finally over. I was hoping for more of the fees back but I suppose $200 is better than nothing.

iluvzbeach

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Re: Lincoln Financial - a cautionary tale
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2024, 04:23:38 PM »
@Mrs. Fire Lane, I'm glad you're happy everything is over but what about the loss in growth from November when you started this process until April when the funds were transferred?  Wouldn't your mother have had sizeable gains if Lincoln hadn't dragged their feet?  This sounds like the type of thing lawsuits are made for.

Mrs. Fire Lane

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Re: Lincoln Financial - a cautionary tale
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2024, 10:27:29 AM »
Yes but they only got notice on Feb 6, so that’s when the clock starts.

She’s already made some nice gains which is great because they won’t be eaten by her accountant for using a chat bot that can’t spell.

I’m comforted that we filed a FINRA complaint and warned people here. I’ve also told people in real life about this to be careful. The rumor mill works. Maybe I can leave them a bad Yelp review… XD

partgypsy

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Re: Lincoln Financial - a cautionary tale
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2024, 09:50:07 AM »
When my Mom sold her house I urged her to put it in Vanguard. Multiple conversations. She said she understood and would. Instead, she put in in her bank savngs account, which makes like 0.1% a years. that's what she's been doing for the past 5, 6 years. So for the past year I have been urging her to put the remaining small amount left in at least ally or another higher interest savings account. i've given the info to my sister, who helps her with her paperwork. Mom she says it's too complicated, though it is a 15 min online form. Sigh.

obstinate

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Re: Lincoln Financial - a cautionary tale
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2024, 01:40:09 PM »
Many people have been ruined by trusting a money manager. They provide little value in the best case, negative value in the median case, and disastrous losses in the worst case. I'm glad to see this recommendation against Lincoln Financial but I would extend it. If you must use a money manager, best to act as if they intend to steal all your money eventually and double-check every piece of work.

Mrs. Fire Lane

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Re: Lincoln Financial - a cautionary tale
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2024, 01:29:04 PM »
Update 3 (???) I checked my mom's savings account today and there is a $70 deposit from Lincoln. I logged onto her Lincoln account and there is still over $600 in bonds there.

So I called my favorite people at Lincoln Financial again.

They said there was a problem with the transfer and it was reinitiated yesterday and we should have the money on 7-10 business days. Allowing for Memorial Day that brings us to June 7. I asked the guy if he could confirm I would have the money by then. He just said "A transfer will take 7-10 business days." I said ok if I don't have the money by June 7 I will call back. He said "OK you do that."

I smell another FINRA complaint coming.

Wolfpack Mustachian

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Re: Lincoln Financial - a cautionary tale
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2024, 07:29:17 PM »
Absolutely ridiculous. Sorry you're going through this, but thanks for providing the cautionary tale.

partgypsy

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Re: Lincoln Financial - a cautionary tale
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2024, 08:48:35 AM »
Update 3 (???) I checked my mom's savings account today and there is a $70 deposit from Lincoln. I logged onto her Lincoln account and there is still over $600 in bonds there.

So I called my favorite people at Lincoln Financial again.

They said there was a problem with the transfer and it was reinitiated yesterday and we should have the money on 7-10 business days. Allowing for Memorial Day that brings us to June 7. I asked the guy if he could confirm I would have the money by then. He just said "A transfer will take 7-10 business days." I said ok if I don't have the money by June 7 I will call back. He said "OK you do that."

I smell another FINRA complaint coming.

Just reading this stuff makes my blood boil. I had the whole incident when shifting my money from Vanguard to my new retirement account, again reiterating what they need to do, fill out forms for transfer, them saying they do this all the time. lo and behold instead of transferring like they said, just mailed me a check. luckily bc I transferred it within 30 days I didn't have to pay taxes on the "withdrawal."

Mrs. Fire Lane

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Re: Lincoln Financial - a cautionary tale
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2024, 01:27:11 PM »
Final update - account was closed and money was transferred on June 4. Glad this is over!

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!