Author Topic: Life insurance for those a medical condition. Worth it?  (Read 4432 times)

omega13

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Life insurance for those a medical condition. Worth it?
« on: July 19, 2017, 02:29:14 AM »
Would you guys recommend life insurance if you have a medical condition that may or may not impact your life longevity?


If you're a mustachian to the core, and expect to live 20-30 years minimum after you FIRE, shouldn't you have enough in the bank to take care of loved ones? That's assuming you live till FIRE time of course.


Specifically, would you pay $335/month for a 250k whole life insurance if you were 8-10 years away from FIRE? What's your experience been with insurance decisions?


I find life insurance to be confusing and have been trying to navigate through some of these scenarios/concepts.

ltt

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Re: Life insurance for those a medical condition. Worth it?
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2017, 04:00:44 AM »
No whole life, only term.  Our decision would not be based upon being 8-10 years away from FIRE.  I'm not even sure it would be based on a medical condition with unknowns.

There are other factors that come into play.   Do you have a mortgage?  How old are your children?  Is your spouse working?  Do you want enough to pay for your childrens' college in case something were to happen?

We have pretty much dropped the majority of our term insurance.  We bought them as 15-year level term policies when our boys were toddlers.  The insurance served it's purpose, plus we have life insurance on my husband at work.  We do carry some on me, but will be dropping it in the next few years.  Our boys are now in college, and we also have two teen girls.  We have money set aside for their college, plus our older two are working.  But our assets have grown and our home is paid off.   

I think people do start dropping life insurance once their assets get to a certain level. 

Gin1984

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Re: Life insurance for those a medical condition. Worth it?
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2017, 04:39:53 AM »
I have a medical condition and have insurance through work because my family is not financially independent yet and I bring in income/save us money by being alive.  I would not get whole life and I plan to drop insurance once we are FI.

Mr. Green

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Re: Life insurance for those a medical condition. Worth it?
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2017, 08:21:22 AM »
I have a $500,000 30 year, return of premium, term policy I bought in my 20's for $710 a year. That includes a rate premium for the fact that they give me all my money back at the end of the 30 years if I'm not dead. If you just wanted a simple 10 year term policy I imagine it would only cost 10% of what you were quoted for whole life. I continue to keep both my wife's and my life insurance even though we're FIRE because we have just enough for our needs and who's to say we might not incur some type of significant expense if one of us does die young. It's a small price to pay to ensure that one of us wouldn't be left a little too short years after having walked away from our careers.

SimpleCycle

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Re: Life insurance for those a medical condition. Worth it?
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2017, 08:46:34 AM »
My preferred approach is term life, with enough coverage to cover necessary expenses that can't come out of your stache when you pass away.

What I did - bought a term policy for 30 years for $1M.  This is enough to cover private college for both my kids (which is something we are planning to pay for, despite being unmustachian) and pay off our mortgage, plus some buffer for my wife (who is the breadwinner and would need some help at home) if I were suddenly gone.  Term goes until my youngest kid is 26.  It costs wayyyyyy too much money due to pre-existing health conditions.

What I wish I did - bought a 10 year policy for $500k (or maybe less) and a 20 year policy for $500k (or maybe less).  I didn't run the projection on how much of that $1M in coverage would have been replaced by stache by 30 years out and I'm now overinsured.  Due to health conditions that have developed since I bought the policy, I tried to reshop the policies and was rejected, and at this point I'm not willing to forgo life insurance.  But I will cancel my policy once the stache is sufficient to support my family.

Drifterrider

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Re: Life insurance for those a medical condition. Worth it?
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2017, 10:12:34 AM »
Death insurance benefits those who don't die.

If you are not financially responsible for others, why pay for them to have a windfall when you die?  If they want to have a windfall when you die, let them pay the premiums (but be careful, they just might want to collect soon).

I have no children therefore I have never carried death insurance. 

JoJo

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Re: Life insurance for those a medical condition. Worth it?
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2017, 04:58:19 PM »
I have a $500,000 30 year, return of premium, term policy I bought in my 20's for $710 a year. That includes a rate premium for the fact that they give me all my money back at the end of the 30 years if I'm not dead. If you just wanted a simple 10 year term policy I imagine it would only cost 10% of what you were quoted for whole life. I continue to keep both my wife's and my life insurance even though we're FIRE because we have just enough for our needs and who's to say we might not incur some type of significant expense if one of us does die young. It's a small price to pay to ensure that one of us wouldn't be left a little too short years after having walked away from our careers.

Hold onto that sucker.  Those early policies were underpriced!

fuzzy math

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Re: Life insurance for those a medical condition. Worth it?
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2017, 05:29:46 PM »
To answer OP - it depends on how long your entire Fire timeframe is. For my house, we only have 10 years to go, but are only 10% of the way there $$ wise. so we don't have enough to forego insurance.

If you are 10 yrs out but have saved 50% the question is whether you have enough today to help a spouse get over the hump. Who is the primary bread winner?

I don't know the nature of your condition, but your premiums sound horrible. I think you'd have to weigh whether you think you could live long enough to not Make it worth it. After 20 years, that money invested could bring in $150k. At 10 years it would be worth $50k. There's something to be said for peace of mind, but for short term use, term life has to be a better option.

Miss Piggy

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Re: Life insurance for those a medical condition. Worth it?
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2017, 06:04:43 PM »
OP, do you know for sure whether you are insurable with whatever condition you have? And if yes, does the medical condition raise your rates significantly?

omega13

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Re: Life insurance for those a medical condition. Worth it?
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2017, 03:05:18 AM »
Thank you everybody. Your responses have been immensely eye opening. Lots to think about!


To answer some of the the questions- I'm currently the primary breadwinner. Still have a mortgage of about 200k. The plan is to tackle it aggressively and have it paid off in the next 3-5 years.


As far as kids go, the plan is to provide logistical and maybe small financial support but I would like them to go to community colleges and pay for most of it themselves. That's 12-15 years out.


@L.A.S: Now it makes sense that whole life is a cash cow for insurance agents. I did speak with an agent recommended by one of my attorneys and he more or less said the following about whole life insurance albeit "jokingly"...


"...girls dig guys that have whole life insurance. They are long term thinkers. They are visionaries. It’s like buying a house. Girls like guys that know where they are going in life and have a plan."...lol


@fuzzy math: Not sure how you mean your question. Do you mean how long do I plan on being FIRE after paying off the house?


@Miss Piggy: I am not eligible for additional coverage through my work (max 100k). This agent did mention that it would be difficult but he had spoken with NY Life and they had indicated that they can insure me since I'm healthy overall. I'm not sure what the hike is due to the condition.


This agent also mentioned something about dividends you can reap from whole life through the concept of mutual insurance. Apparently one of the options is 400 death benefits for every 100 dividends you own. How does that work?


Thank you again everybody!

bogart

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Re: Life insurance for those a medical condition. Worth it?
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2017, 10:31:04 AM »
So I don't -- to my knowledge -- have a medical condition that may reduce my longevity, but I do have (term) life insurance on both me & my DH (who doesn't work outside the home).  Why?  Well, I have a lot more (10x) on me than on him for two reasons -- I bring in an income that will vanish if I kick the bucket and I'm much cheaper to insure -- but if something were to happen to either of us, the other would be left without the partner who makes a significant contribution to running our household and raising our elementary schooler.  Obviously money won't replace that, but it would help fill some gaps.

I read a lot of posts about life insurance on these boards that basically seem to figure that the day after the poster's death, (or perhaps, for the more sensitive survivors, the day after the funeral), the surviving partner will get out of bed and resume doing whatever the heck they were doing before the poster passed away -- whether that's working, managing a household, raising kids, managing investments and living an affordable lifestyle, or whatever.  Honestly, I prefer to imagine that my DH will be totally distraught for a month or more and will manage to rouse himself and put on a good face only because he's responsible for our son and knows that he must.  And even then, they'll both be eating a ton of pizza and meals out because, let's be honest, I'm the only thing standing between them and that being their usual approach to getting an, er, satisfying meal.  And seriously, our kid will be entirely distraught.  And if I'm the survivor, well, all that still applies except for the part about the pizza, and if I do manage to get myself to work, I'll need to hire people to get the stuff that DH does around the house now, done.

And of course if instead of this being about "if something were to happen to either of us" it were instead about something happening to both of us, well, then we want to leave DS well provided for so that his guardians are able to focus on raising him and not paying for raising him.  And truthfully, if I end up not being able to parent him into (his) adulthood, I'd like to be able to smooth his life in other ways, for example by paying to cover his college costs even if I wouldn't (otherwise) have done so.

So that's my thinking on the topic.  I really don't think the question should be, "Would you recommend life insurance if you have a medical condition that may or may not impact your life longevity?" (though at the margin that must skew the answer more toward "yes," all else equal).  Rather, it (they) should be what expenses you want/need to cover for others who depend on you after you are gone (bearing in mind, one hopes, that losing you would be emotionally difficult for them), what resources (e.g. extant savings, social security survivors' benefits) are already available, what insurance to cover any gaps would cost, and whether you can afford it.

And yes -- get term insurance.  Conservatively (cautiously) it sounds like in 20 years, no one will be financially dependent on you in a way that necessitates your carrying insurance, so you don't need it forever, just for awhile.  And term is much, much cheaper.

cchrissyy

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Re: Life insurance for those a medical condition. Worth it?
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2017, 01:42:39 PM »
I think your 1st step is to get a price quote for the same level of coverage, $250k, but as a 20 year term policy. you'll be shocked how much you are overpaying for having whole life instead of term.

I don't know what that number will be given your health conditions but I can tell you for myself, since I just recently revisited this issue, that the number for $250k 20yr was $14.50 per month ($175/year). $250k 30yr was  $21/m or $250/year

Get some price quotes for different amounts of coverage and lengths of term. Apply and see what your health impact really is and if you can really get a policy. But if you can then, OMG drop your expensive policy as soon as the new coverage is in place.  It's not that your whole life plan is unusual either, this is just how much those suckers cost. and if you find you're not insurable at all anymore, ok, maybe better to keep it for now.

SimpleCycle

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Re: Life insurance for those a medical condition. Worth it?
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2017, 09:27:51 PM »
This is a helpful article on how life insurance underwriting works.

http://www.lifehappens.org/blog/understanding-life-insurance-ratings/

A lot of health conditions are insurable.  I worked with an agent who has done a lot of high risk policies and he got me an okay rate given my history.

omega13

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Re: Life insurance for those a medical condition. Worth it?
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2017, 01:03:15 AM »
@cchrissyy, SimpleCycle: Thank you for the recommendations. Looks like term insurance is the way to go!

Imma

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Re: Life insurance for those a medical condition. Worth it?
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2017, 02:26:55 AM »
I read a lot of posts about life insurance on these boards that basically seem to figure that the day after the poster's death, (or perhaps, for the more sensitive survivors, the day after the funeral), the surviving partner will get out of bed and resume doing whatever the heck they were doing before the poster passed away -- whether that's working, managing a household, raising kids, managing investments and living an affordable lifestyle, or whatever.  Honestly, I prefer to imagine that my DH will be totally distraught for a month or more and will manage to rouse himself and put on a good face only because he's responsible for our son and knows that he must.  And even then, they'll both be eating a ton of pizza and meals out because, let's be honest, I'm the only thing standing between them and that being their usual approach to getting an, er, satisfying meal.  And seriously, our kid will be entirely distraught.  And if I'm the survivor, well, all that still applies except for the part about the pizza, and if I do manage to get myself to work, I'll need to hire people to get the stuff that DH does around the house now, done.

This was exactly our reasoning as well. We both work and have no kids, and we could just about manage on our own in our current house, maybe we'd need to have a roommate. But we'd want to leave the other 'taken care of' not 'just about managing'. We didn't take out huge insurance policies, just enough to help the other out. Plus, when we took out the insurance policies, we were 24 and 28 and we weren't sure if we'd ever have kids (we're still not sure if that's medically possible) but if we ever do, that's another good reason to take out insurance. I don't want him to work all the overtime he could get to raise our kid, I'd like him to be able to switch to parttime so he has more time to grieve and support a grieving kid. Plus, if he'd die, I have a chronic illness that makes it harder for me to work more hours than I already do.

As I said, when we took out the policies, we were 24 (female, auto-immune disease) and 28 (male, healthy) and I pay EUR 5/month for him for 25 years, cover is for EUR 100.000, for 30 years. EUR 1500 for 30 years' peace of mind. As I'm significantly more expensive to insurance and he has more options to work extra if he wants to, we chose a EUR 80.000 policy for me that gets lower every year until after 30 years it's 0 (I'm not sure how that's called in English). I think it costs EUR 12/month, also for 25 years. Still that's only  EUR 3600 in total.

We took out 30-year life insurance at the same time we took out a 30-year mortgage for EUR 77.900 at the same time. We chose the amount based on mortgage + funeral expenses. We're planning to tackle the mortgage long before those 30 years are up, but we chose to insure for the worst-case scenario, not the best-case scenario (in the best case scenario we don't die before our 50s at all).

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!