Landlord not clearing snow (what are my options)

[FIRE47]

I live in Ontario and it is explicitly stated in the lease the landlord is responsible, in addition in Ontario snow removal can never be downloaded on the tenant unless by separate paid contract from what I have read. My question is this, how should I go about documenting and pursuing this matter? I have been very flexible overall with this landlord on many other issues (probably too forgiving) as it is a nice unit and they are not professional landlords but a young family. This is something I am not willing to compromise on however.

I was personally thinking of billing them for snow removal service to be deducted from rent if not removed. But what is a reasonable time for them to remove the snow legally speaking and can I just deduct it from my rent or how do I do this by the book?

[use2betrix]

What did they tell you when you asked them about it?

[FIRE47]

That from time to time it won't be done before work and I need to do in front of the appt but I havnt really had enough a of a history since I just moved in Oct and the whole El Niņo thing to make it a big issue yet. I just want to start preparing at this point. I'm still at the give them another chance and talk to them stage but I want to be ready if I need to be documenting things etc. my give them another chance stage often lasts way too long so I need to work up to it.

[pbkmaine]

Are you willing to do it? If so, perhaps you can work it out with the landlord that you will do it in exchange for a reduction in rent.


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[I'm a red panda]

What is the legal requirement for the timeframe in which it has to be done?  Does it really have to be done "before work"? (That seems arbitrary.)

In my city, which is not in Canada, snowfall must be cleared within 24-hours of the snowfall STOPPING.  There isn't a legal requirement to do anything about it if it is still falling (though many landlords still do.)

[FIRE47]

What is the legal requirement for the timeframe in which it has to be done?  Does it really have to be done "before work"? (That seems arbitrary.)

In my city, which is not in Canada, snowfall must be cleared within 24-hours of the snowfall STOPPING.  There isn't a legal requirement to do anything about it if it is still falling (though many landlords still do.)

Oh I don't think before work has anything to do with it that was just a quote. That was what I was wondering is the actual timeframe

[NoStacheOhio]

If you're willing/able, I would just ask for a rent reduction during winter months. Shop around and see what a snow removal contract typically costs and go from there. Just do it all in writing/email.

[former player]

Apart from the landlords irritating you by not living up to their obligations, what is the problem?  Is the snow on private property which you have rented or on the public highway along the frontage?  Is it just an inconvenience to you or is it actively dangerous to you?  Unless the obligation to clear snow relates to the part of the property you have rented and not having it cleared is inconvenient or dangerous to you in using that property, I don't think it's anything you should be concerning yourself about.

I don't think you have any right to contract into snow clearing arrangements on your landlord's behalf.  You should take legal advice from a property law expert in your jurisdiction before you stop paying part of your rent.

[therethere]

Apart from the landlords irritating you by not living up to their obligations, what is the problem?  Is the snow on private property which you have rented or on the public highway along the frontage?  Is it just an inconvenience to you or is it actively dangerous to you?  Unless the obligation to clear snow relates to the part of the property you have rented and not having it cleared is inconvenient or dangerous to you in using that property, I don't think it's anything you should be concerning yourself about.

Um... So just overlook the fact that the landlord is not clearing snow? No way. Snowclearing is something most people consider with the price of rent (I didn't catch the locale but this could be a bigger or lesser deal depending on where they are). Its not a "bonus". If plowing is the landlords responsibility any driveways or sidewalks should be cleared by them. No questions. I would give them some leeway if they are late occasionally (think a few times a year). But beyond that its like saying the apartment comes with a microwave but the microwave doesn't work.... No a microwave is not absolutely necessary. But it was specified as included and its not.

[big_slacker]

Interesting that snow clearing is considered landlord responsibility in some places. I'm from a mountain town and everyone rent or buy clears their own snow on their property while the town clears the roads.

Know who's responsible for what (at what time!) but then call up and be nice about it. Maybe they use a service who got slammed and didn't get to you before work (if they're even required to?) Maybe the service skipped your place and the owner and you both got screwed. Don't start off from negative is all I'm getting at, client/tenant should ideally be symbiotic, not adversarial.

[FIRE47]

Apart from the landlords irritating you by not living up to their obligations, what is the problem?  Is the snow on private property which you have rented or on the public highway along the frontage?  Is it just an inconvenience to you or is it actively dangerous to you?  Unless the obligation to clear snow relates to the part of the property you have rented and not having it cleared is inconvenient or dangerous to you in using that property, I don't think it's anything you should be concerning yourself about.

I don't think you have any right to contract into snow clearing arrangements on your landlord's behalf.  You should take legal advice from a property law expert in your jurisdiction before you stop paying part of your rent.

Well aside from the fact that you'd be stuck in your driveway and possibly snowed into your house if you left it a few weeks the mail service would also probably be halted to your house as well as some type of city enforcement against the property

[Bearded Man]

Interesting that snow clearing is considered landlord responsibility in some places. I'm from a mountain town and everyone rent or buy clears their own snow on their property while the town clears the roads.

Know who's responsible for what (at what time!) but then call up and be nice about it. Maybe they use a service who got slammed and didn't get to you before work (if they're even required to?) Maybe the service skipped your place and the owner and you both got screwed. Don't start off from negative is all I'm getting at, client/tenant should ideally be symbiotic, not adversarial.

Yeah, my tenants are responsible for all yard care, snow, etc. I get that the OP supposedly has a contract with the LL, so it's a bit different in the sense that he has a legal obligation, but still. Unless the snow is THAT bad I'd just deal with it myself. I can tell you if any of my tenants wanted me to start blowing the leaves in the yard for them or shoveling snow, I'd be sending them a 20 day notice to vacate. This reminds me of the guy who wanted his LL to put him up in a hotel because the roof was being replaced and he worked nights, lol. I don't know what it is with renters, they somehow think that renting means 24 personal assistant and anything they want they get. Entitled people these days.

[Bearded Man]

Apart from the landlords irritating you by not living up to their obligations, what is the problem?  Is the snow on private property which you have rented or on the public highway along the frontage?  Is it just an inconvenience to you or is it actively dangerous to you?  Unless the obligation to clear snow relates to the part of the property you have rented and not having it cleared is inconvenient or dangerous to you in using that property, I don't think it's anything you should be concerning yourself about.

Um... So just overlook the fact that the landlord is not clearing snow? No way. Snowclearing is something most people consider with the price of rent (I didn't catch the locale but this could be a bigger or lesser deal depending on where they are). Its not a "bonus". If plowing is the landlords responsibility any driveways or sidewalks should be cleared by them. No questions. I would give them some leeway if they are late occasionally (think a few times a year). But beyond that its like saying the apartment comes with a microwave but the microwave doesn't work.... No a microwave is not absolutely necessary. But it was specified as included and its not.

While your LL has an obligation per your lease, I think your example is reaching straw man argument territory. I could dial it up a notch saying it's like the roof leaking and the LL not fixing it so you have to sleep in wet moldy stuff. I don't know how bad the snow is but I imagine it's bad. Without seeing a picture it's tough to tell if this is something to make a stink about. If you have huge snow drifts and are blocked in, by all means. But a little bit of snow you can shovel in 15 minutes? Meh...

I'd simply opt to move when my lease ran up.

[BDWW]

Did the lease include bedpan and catheter?

[matchewed]

Removal of snow from sidewalks is usually mandated by town/city ordinance. Just look up yours. You can then report the landlord.

Try talking to the landlord first.

Then if they do not take care of it you can contact a lawyer if you'd like that they are not fulfilling their end of the lease. It is a legal document it should be managed in the realm of law if it is not able to be settled face to face.

The landlord has a legal obligation that they willingly chose to put in the lease. There is no strawman and the OP is not being a lazy person about it. This is not a sense of entitlement either.

[former player]

Apart from the landlords irritating you by not living up to their obligations, what is the problem?  Is the snow on private property which you have rented or on the public highway along the frontage?  Is it just an inconvenience to you or is it actively dangerous to you?  Unless the obligation to clear snow relates to the part of the property you have rented and not having it cleared is inconvenient or dangerous to you in using that property, I don't think it's anything you should be concerning yourself about.

I don't think you have any right to contract into snow clearing arrangements on your landlord's behalf.  You should take legal advice from a property law expert in your jurisdiction before you stop paying part of your rent.

Well aside from the fact that you'd be stuck in your driveway and possibly snowed into your house if you left it a few weeks the mail service would also probably be halted to your house as well as some type of city enforcement against the property

Has the landlord been so remiss in clearing snow that lack of access to your driveway and/or home has happened or looks likely to happen?  If so, then your first action is a polite reminder to the landlord, followed by more demanding reminders.  Documentation would be a daily record of the depth of snow on the property and the dates on which and effectiveness with which it is cleared, probably with pictures.

As to enforcement if the landlord fails to meet their obligations, check the remedies for breach which are in your lease.  There might be something there about going to mediation or arbitration, but if not your only remedy against the landlord would probably be to start a civil court action, and almost no amount of snow could be worth that. Otherwise, you could look up whether your local authority is willing to get involved in the dispute - if the issue is an obligation to clear the highway, including clearing it in order to get access onto your privately rented land, they may be more likely to get involved than if it is just about snow clearance on privately owned land - try the housing department, the highways department or the trading standards department.

[Cathy]

I cannot comment on the specific situation of the original poster ("OP"), but I will inject some facts into this discussion by posting some general information about Ontario law. I emphasise, however, that this general information may not be applicable to the specific situation of the OP. If the OP needs advice applicable to his or her specific situation, he or she should seek legal advice from a lawyer licensed to practice in Ontario (formally known as a member of the Law Society of Upper Canada).

In Ontario, commercial and residential tenancies are governed by very different laws. I will not discuss commercial tenancies in this post. Residential tenancies are primarily governed by the Residential Tenancies Act, 2006, SO 2006, c 17 ("Act"). Under the Act, "[t]he prescribed maintenance standards apply to a residential complex and the rental units located in it if ... the prescribed circumstances apply". Act § 224(1). For the purpose of this provision, the term "residential complex" includes "a building or related group of buildings in which one or more rental units are located" which seemingly includes a single-family home. Act § 2(1). The Lieutenant Governor in Council is authorised to make regulations for the purpose of Act § 224(1) (specifying the maintenance standards and the prescribed circumstances in which they apply). Act § 241(1)(2). The regulations promulated by the The Lieutenant Governor in Council provide that "[e]xcept as otherwise provided, the landlord shall ensure that the maintenance standards in this Regulation are complied with". Maintenance Standards, O Reg 517/06 ("Reg"), § 2(2). One such exception is that the maintenance standards contained in the regulation do not apply "[i]f there is a municipal property standards by-law applicable only to the exterior of residential complexes or rental units"; in that case, said municipal standards apply instead to the exterior of the complex. Reg § 4.

One of the standards contained in the regulation is that "[e]xterior common areas shall be maintained in a condition suitable for their intended use and free of hazards and, for these purposes, the following shall be removed: ... [u]nsafe accumulations of ice and snow". Reg § 26(1)(5). As I interpret this regulatory provision, the key test appears to be whether the common areas are "in a condition suitable for their intended use". In Montgomery v. Van, 2009 ONCA 808, the Ontario Court of Appeal considered an older residential tenancy statute, which no longer exists, but which has generally similar language to the provisions discussed above. The Court found that a tenant can agree to assume responsibility for the maintenance of common areas, but that agreement must be a "severable contractual obligation" from the lease, supported by independent consideration (although it does not need to be a separate document). In the absence of such a separate agreement, the landlord is responsible under current Act § 224.

I stress, however, that the standards contained in the regulation apply only in the absence of qualifying municipal standards (as described more precisely above). If qualifying municipal standards exist, they need to be consulted instead. The OP does not disclose which municipality he or she is in (if any).

If the landlord is in violation of the established maintenance standards (whether municipal or the ones in the regulation), the tenant has up to two separate remedies under the Act:

• The tenant can apply to the Ontario Landlord and Tenant Board for, among other things, an "abatement of rent". Act §§ 29(1)(1), 30(1)(2); or
• If there are no qualifying municipal standards and the standards in the regulation apply, the tenant also has the option of making a "written complaint" to the Minister under Act § 224(2). If municipal standards apply instead, the analogous option would be to make a complaint to the muncipal authorities.

Notably, the Act does not explicitly authorise tenants to withhold rent as a consequence of the landlord's failure to comply with maintenance standards. Many recent Board opinions state that this is not allowed. See, e.g., TSL-59846-15 (Re), 2015 CanLII 59172 (ON LTB) at ķ 11 ("The Tenants chose to withhold rent due to alleged maintenance problems. However it should be noted that it is contrary to the Act to withhold rent. If a Tenant wishes to seek a remedy for a Landlord’s failure to maintain a rental unit they are free to file a Tenant Application regarding maintenance."). In one case, the Divisional Court declined to hear an appeal from a tenant regarding maintenance issues until such time as the tenant paid the rent owing in full. Glimjem Holdings Ltd. v. Weidenfeld, 2003 CanLII 26196 (ON SCDC).

The website of the Ontario Landlord and Tenant Board appears to contain a lot of general information about the process for making an application. It also appears to contain practical tips on how to resolve situations without an application. This website may be a good place to learn more about these matters. Again, I cannot offer any advice on the specific situation of the original poster. If such advice is required, it should be obtained from a member of the Law Society of Upper Canada.

[HipGnosis]

You (OP) haven't give any specifics of what the situation (or question) is so you can't get a specific answer.
You will have to be specific in your options.
Your first option is to get knowledgeable.
A quick google got me The Federation of Metro Tenants’ Associations GUIDE TO TENANT RIGHTS.
http://torontotenants.org/sites/torontotenants.org/files/publications/English%20Guide%202007.pdf
Yes, the landlord is responsible for snow removal.  It doesn't say when, so I doubt you have any expectation of promptness.
Failure to pay rent (which most probably means 'in full') is grounds for eviction.
Document the time and amount of snow and the time of removal.  Bring a copy of the documentation to the LL and discuss it.

[ABC123]

Did the lease include bedpan and catheter?

I don't understand this response.  If snow removal was included in the lease, then why would he not want the landlord to fulfill his reponsiblity?  I would imagine the price of the rent is higher than it would have otherwise been if snow removal was not included, so why would he not hold the landlord to it?  If he was supposed to clear the snow, and decided he just didn't want to, I imagine people would be all over him about how important it is to get the snow shoveled.  So why shouldn't the landlord be required to? 

As far as what I think should be done -- research your city's requirements for how long they allow the snow to remain.  Once you know what is legally required, then go to the landlord and talk to him about it.  Don't yell or get upset, just have a nice calm conversation abut how snow clearing is the landlord's responsibility, and legally he has X number of hours to get it done.  If you would be ok with doing the shoveling, then sure, give the landlord that option -- you will take it over for $x discount on the rent.  If you don't want to do the shoveling, then don't even bring it up.  If the landlord continues to be difficult about it, then do some more research to see what options your city has for reporting someone who doesn't shovel.

[Zamboni]

Did the lease include bedpan and catheter?

Well said. :-) that was my first thought, too. Until too feeble to do so, I will just shovel myself (or at least run over it to leave smooth ice in my wake.) But to each his own I guess.

[bryan995]

Did the lease include bedpan and catheter?

Well said. :-) that was my first thought, too. Until too feeble to do so, I will just shovel myself (or at least run over it to leave smooth ice in my wake.) But to each his own I guess.

Yes - this exactly.
Have some pride and do it yourself - then talk to the landlord and offer to CONTINUE do it for $x discount per month.

[Dicey]

I just scanned all the replies, so sorry if it's been said before.

Why the fuck are you asking this here instead of talking to your landlord? If you have and he is not standing by his agreement, can't you go to your local housing authority?

I understand the bedpan/catheter comment to some extent because this topic just sounds a tad complainypants.

[coopdog]

Interesting stuff. I would strongly discourage the OP from arbitrarily deducting or holding back rent. That would likely put you in violation of the lease as well and give the LL a counter-complaint. Keep the high ground. Honor your side of the lease and use the other mechanisms of the lease and statute to redress the complaint. If you have to move out, the LL could be liable for your moving and other misc expenses.

[fiftyincher]

How many times has it not been done to your liking? How long after it snows does it take to get cleaned up? Major storms I wouldn't expect things to be taken care of until at least noon if it stopped snowing the previous night.

Post up some examples and talk with your landlord.

[I'm a red panda]

Did the lease include bedpan and catheter?

Well said. :-) that was my first thought, too. Until too feeble to do so, I will just shovel myself (or at least run over it to leave smooth ice in my wake.) But to each his own I guess.

Why would you do something you are paying someone else to do?
If the lease/law says it is the landlords responsibility paying the rent covers this. The tenant shouldn't have to use their time to do something they've already paid for.

[marty998]

If this is a unit/apartment then isn't this a matter for the body corporate/strata committee (housing association? I don't know what you call it in Canada).

You can't be the only resident affected by snow in a unit block.

[Zamboni]

^^Because I kind of like doing it, for the exercise, and (because I don't expect that most other people will get it done before I want to leave the house) for my own safety.

It is, after all, impossible for all pesky snow in a city to be instantaneously vaporized by landlords. Some people will have to wait longer than they might like if they want their path cleared for them.

On top of this, people have really different standards for snow clearing. Some people are out there the second there is 0.5 inch, using a fancy and extremely noisy snow blower to clear every bit of concrete and pavement and edging it more perfectly than their immaculate lawn (because it seems to be the lawn zealots who are the most OCD about this.) These people tend to be very noisy neighbors with their leaf blowing, snow blowing, electric trimming etc. and I think they are obnoxious as fuck most of the time. Can you tell I have one of these people across the street? He has been out there power washing his driveway today using some sort of super noisy compressor for 3 hours, but I digress. He probably doesn't like my low standards either so there you go. Others just do their stairs and make the narrowest possible lane for single file foot traffic. Likewise, some plow operators are really careful, and others have a "good enough" mentality.

Sure, ask about it nicely. Then be quiet unless they really are doing absolutely nothing and you are trapped. As long as the landlord does something about the snow at some point that seems reasonable for safely walking to one entrance to the house, I doubt the city will help this person much and he is wasting his or her time worrying about it. I could see the city issuing a warning if it's really impossible to get in and out all of the time, then a second warning a month later if nothing is done, but by the time they were ready to really help by fining the landlord, it would be spring.

Pick your battles, my friend, pick your battles.

[The_path_less_taken]

Why would you do something you are paying someone else to do?
If the lease/law says it is the landlords responsibility paying the rent covers this. The tenant shouldn't have to use their time to do something they've already paid for.
[/quote]




When I had rental property in a mountain ski resort, I required tenants to read and INITIAL the clause that stated they were responsible for their own snow removal. I explained that it snows a lot I a ski resort town (you know, because people are idiots) and that I would not be out there before work shoveling their walk or driveway.

I explained the alternative was I charge them another couple hundred a month rent and 'try' and get a pro service to do it but the odds are they would still be shoveling their own walkway every morning as the service would probably do his oldest clients first.

Most were happier to shovel for 10-15 minutes rather than pay a few hundred more.

That said, if the shoe were on the other foot and my rental contract stated the landlord was responsible...I'd like him to do it. Or lower the rent and I'll do it.

It's an equation.

OP mentions not wanting to be too harsh as they're a young couple versus a big corporation that owns the building. Fine. They're young, they have strong backs.

But logic will tell you that the only way to have an immaculate front walkway in snow country is to do it yourself. Fine if you are FI or stay at home but impractical in the real world. I'm at work ten hours a day, with commute time. Ten hours of snow can add up.

Good luck. Like others have said: document. Personally I'd start with an email with a photo attached, asking about the clause in the lease that says it is their responsibility.

[hops]

Why would you do something you are paying someone else to do?
If the lease/law says it is the landlords responsibility paying the rent covers this. The tenant shouldn't have to use their time to do something they've already paid for.

Some of the strongest negative replies OP has elicited have come from landlords and should possibly be taken with a grain of salt. It's interesting that for all the discussions we've had on this board about the different ways in which we value our time, and how we make spending decisions that align with those values, we're still quick to judge and chest-thump about our own badassity while ignoring the fact that the OP, or someone else in his or her position, might have completely different values or physical limitations.

It's not unreasonable to expect a service for which you pay your landlord to be provided, and if you live in a particularly snowy area and feel this will become more of an issue as the weather worsens, it's worth politely raising those concerns with the landlord now rather than allowing it to become a potentially contentious issue down the line.

[NoraLenderbee]

Why would you do something you are paying someone else to do?
If the lease/law says it is the landlords responsibility paying the rent covers this. The tenant shouldn't have to use their time to do something they've already paid for.

Some of the strongest negative replies OP has elicited have come from landlords and should possibly be taken with a grain of salt. It's interesting that for all the discussions we've had on this board about the different ways in which we value our time, and how we make spending decisions that align with those values, we're still quick to judge and chest-thump about our own badassity while ignoring the fact that the OP, or someone else in his or her position, might have completely different values or physical limitations.

It's not unreasonable to expect a service for which you pay your landlord to be provided, and if you live in a particularly snowy area and feel this will become more of an issue as the weather worsens, it's worth politely raising those concerns with the landlord now rather than allowing it to become a potentially contentious issue down the line.

+100. The "bedpan and catheter" and similar comments are off target, as well as obnoxious.

You need to find out first what the local regulations say about the timeframe. If the law doesn't specify one, or if it's too long, then you need to bring it up with your landlord as a problem that both of you need to solve. For instance: "The law says you have 24 hours. However, I need to have the driveway cleared by 8 AM. You have to get to work (or whatever) and can't guarantee that it will be clear by then. How shall we work this out? What about hiring a service, so I can get what I need and you are free of the obligation?"

[FIRE47]

Did the lease include bedpan and catheter?

I suspect your response is likely a result of either being a landlord or not living where snow is a real issue. If the snow is not cleared you physically cannot go to work in the morning, this isn't pushing a dusting around that then melts later in the day. The cost of snow removal would likely be higher than hydro water and cable on a monthly basis. If this was in the lease then the landlord cancelled all 3 and said look after it yourself would your response be the same?

Don't know why anyone here of all places would advocate paying for a service and then just gladly not receive it.

In any case the issue has been resolved satisfactorily at least per the discussion

[Mmm_Donuts]

One way to approach it with the landlords is to express concern. If someone slips and falls on an icy buildup on your sidewalk, they (the landlords) could be ticketed and/or sued. Speaking from experience -- I live in Toronto and have received a ticket before for not shovelling promptly enough. Apparently someone slipped and fell, and called the city. Since then I've been pretty diligent :)

[Dicey]

In any case the issue has been resolved satisfactorily at least per the discussion

Since you came here for advice, would you care to elaborate on the solution, please?

[FIRE47]

In any case the issue has been resolved satisfactorily at least per the discussion

Since you came here for advice, would you care to elaborate on the solution, please?

Why would I? It's clear the topic went over like a lead balloon with a lot of the folks here (yourself included). Admittedly it was posted from my phone and could have used more detail initially. For those other than yourself who were helpful however: after discussion a company was hired and was sent promptly last night.

[NoStacheOhio]

For those other than yourself who were helpful however: after discussion a company was hired and was sent promptly last night.

Glad you had a simple resolution!

[Silverado]

For those other than yourself who were helpful however: after discussion a company was hired and was sent promptly last night.

Glad you had a simple resolution!

Will be interesting to see if it is sustainable. As noted, snow service is not cheap. However, the requirement was known. I would worry about a sharp uptick at lease renewal time.

[I'm a red panda]

I would worry about a sharp uptick at lease renewal time.

If they are renting at market rate, there really isn't an ability to do this. The tenant could go somewhere else.  The landlord has to provide this service (or their own physical labor) to ANYONE since the law requires it be done by the landlord. So they can't really raise the rent unless they think they could get someone else to pay it too. Their margin is just going to have to get cut; which is what happens often when you find out that there are a lot of laws that govern how you run your business and you were previously ignoring them.

So there isn't much of a problem unless the rent was below market rate.

[Tabaxus]

I would worry about a sharp uptick at lease renewal time.

If they are renting at market rate, there really isn't an ability to do this. The tenant could go somewhere else.  The landlord has to provide this service (or their own physical labor) to ANYONE since the law requires it be done by the landlord. So they can't really raise the rent unless they think they could get someone else to pay it too. Their margin is just going to have to get cut; which is what happens often when you find out that there are a lot of laws that govern how you run your business and you were previously ignoring them.

So there isn't much of a problem unless the rent was below market rate.

Eh, I don't necessarily agree here. 

For one thing, landlords can sometimes be spiteful about this kind of thing. 

But even setting that aside, landlords do have some non-market power over current tenants.  It costs money--more or less, depending on whether you are able to do the move without hiring movers, whether your building has moveout fees and the new building has move-in fees, etc. but money nonetheless--significant time, and significant hassle to move.  That's especially true if you're at a stage in life where you have more to move than a one-bedroom apartment.  For my part, it would cost me an absolute minimum of $400 to move:  $300 to rent a freight elevator, $100 to rent a van. That's not including incidentals for the van, like insurance etc., cleaning supplies for the old place, the fact that I'd have to take a day or two off of work, etc.  Given my physical situation (bad back) and my workload, I'd probably end up having to hire movers, so add another $500 minimum.  For me, economically speaking, assuming I am at market rent today, it would be a poor financial decision to move based on a one-time increase in rent, unless I could reasonably conclude that the rent would stay above market for some period of time.  And that's setting aside the serious, serious hassle of moving, potentially having to fight over the security deposit, etc.

[BDWW]

Did the lease include bedpan and catheter?

I suspect your response is likely a result of either being a landlord or not living where snow is a real issue. If the snow is not cleared you physically cannot go to work in the morning, this isn't pushing a dusting around that then melts later in the day. The cost of snow removal would likely be higher than hydro water and cable on a monthly basis. If this was in the lease then the landlord cancelled all 3 and said look after it yourself would your response be the same?

Don't know why anyone here of all places would advocate paying for a service and then just gladly not receive it.

In any case the issue has been resolved satisfactorily at least per the discussion

Nope not a landlord, and perhaps you didn't notice the location... In fact there's a fresh inch this morning on top of the existing foot or so. But I think I'll be ok.

[FIRE47]

Did the lease include bedpan and catheter?

I suspect your response is likely a result of either being a landlord or not living where snow is a real issue. If the snow is not cleared you physically cannot go to work in the morning, this isn't pushing a dusting around that then melts later in the day. The cost of snow removal would likely be higher than hydro water and cable on a monthly basis. If this was in the lease then the landlord cancelled all 3 and said look after it yourself would your response be the same?

Don't know why anyone here of all places would advocate paying for a service and then just gladly not receive it.

In any case the issue has been resolved satisfactorily at least per the discussion

Nope not a landlord, and perhaps you didn't notice the location... In fact there's a fresh inch this morning on top of the existing foot or so. But I think I'll be ok.

That's wonderful.  I used to shovel the shared driveway for my old landlord likely more than he did because it wasn't in the agreement as something I signed to pay for and the average snowfall where I am is twice your state average. It's also uphill both ways on my driveway.

[GuitarStv]

Huh.  I've always just shoveled the snow from the sidewalk and driveway at every place we were renting/owned.  It would never have crossed my mind to bother the landlord about this.

[JLR]

For those other than yourself who were helpful however: after discussion a company was hired and was sent promptly last night.

I'm glad you were able to get what you are paying for (via your rent).

Please let us know how you go in the future.

[MayDay]

The number of people who thought you should just shovel yourself is beyond bizarre to me. 

I've always lived in snowy places and snow removal is no joke.  Sure, its a bit of pleasant exercise when it is a few inches of fluffy stuff.  It can also be absolute hell when its the heavy stuff, or it ices on toip of a foot of the heavy stuff, or when the plow deposits 3 feet of the ice on the bottom of the driveway.  If I paid someone to do it (via rent) I sure as hell expect them to do it, even if I occasionally don't mind going out and shoveling a bit of the fluffy stuff. 

This is double true if you work outside the home.  You gotta get that stuff cleared before work, which if you leave n the early side, is indeed a pain.  I don't know the OP's situation, but as someone with young kids and a husband who can't shovel for medical reasons, I do all the shoveling in the MayDay house, and I can assure you that sometimes shoveling sucks donkey balls. 

[GuitarStv]

I wasn't trying to be judgemental . . . it just never occurred to me that this was something that the landlord was responsible for (and never had a landlord offer to do it for me).  Shovelling snow does indeed suck sometimes.  It's handy to know that you don't need to.  Fuck, I purchased my last two shovels while renting (first one broke after a couple years) . . . at least I should have been reimbursed for that.

[I'm a red panda]

Huh.  I've always just shoveled the snow from the sidewalk and driveway at every place we were renting/owned.  It would never have crossed my mind to bother the landlord about this.

If it was, as the OP said, explicitly stated in the lease, would you have thought otherwise?


Our rental lease explicitly stated the landlord (me) is NOT responsible for snow or lawncare and that the sidewalk must be cleared in 24 hours per city code. (And what the grass requirements are) I don't care if they do the driveway. Because here it isn't the norm for the landlord to do this except in multi units.

[GuitarStv]

I've rented three places, each without actually signing anything that resembled a legal contract.  I'd always be the one running after the landlord to get something signed as a CYA thing for myself . . .

[Landlord2015]

Well I am landlord in Finland and not in Canada. The only comparision I making here how different laws we have once again on a different matter. In Finland landlord is not responsible for any snow clearing things.

The big and common roads are usually cleared by city, town or the goverment workers in Finland. As for other areas the tenants are responsible to clear the snow and not the landlords in Finland.

Another law that I prefer from Finland compared to Canada is this. The first even more bothering law I have mentioned so many times on these forums that I don't need to do it again.

My advice try to work out a reasonable good relationship with your landlord if you can example send proof i.e live video every time when you clear the snow and IF the landlord agrees to that then maybe you could pay slightly less rent.

Horrible law for landlords. We don't have this law in Finland though we do have plenty of snow.

[ghsebldr]

also nothing to see here

[Mr Dumpster Stache]

At my last apartment I got a discount on the rent every time I mowed the lawn or shoveled the sidewalk (for the entire building - 8 units). It was pretty awesome and mustachian, even though I was still a spendypants at the time.

[sstants]

Hey, OP...I'm totally with you on this one. When you pay rent, you expect the landlord to deliver everything that the lease outlines just as you pay rent in full each month.

I'm glad you got it sorted out and things didn't get nasty with the landlord. So often renters feel trapped with no recourse, and often a small issue like this can snowball (lol) into bigger issues between landlord/tenant.