Just bought my first house... a McMansion -- critique my justification

[gimp]

Have you done the math on buying a much cheaper house, and sending your kids to a better school (inter-district, private, etc)?

I don't see anything wrong with buying the best damn education you can (assuming your kids appreciate it and use it) (caveat: I think when they're young, it's more important to socialize than educate, and they should see plenty of shitty kids from shitty families, oops did I say that out loud). But buying an expensive house ain't buying education. That's an excuse you're using for yourself.

[gt7152b]

I would also get out of the contract. Losing the earnest money is a drop in the bucket compared to buying something so expensive. Don't try to make housing plans so far in advance. I made the same mistake although the mcmansions here don't cost nearly as much. Thought it would be the perfect house: great school district, low maintenance house, all the trendy upgrades, huge 3 car garage, tons of storage. We are selling now because it would take me an extra 2 years of working to pay for this house vs something more reasonable. We also found out that we don't like the area that much and the school is only as good as the test scores (lots of bright kids with almost no diversity). We're going the homeschool route because our son's creativity and love for learning is being stifled in this "great school." I thought the same as you about needing the socialization of school for my kids but there are other ways to go about that. Bottom line is that things will change for you so roll with those changes instead of trying to future proof with such a large expense. It will just reduce your options when life throws you a curve ball.

[NoraLenderbee]

It sounds like you already made the decision so I'm not sure what you are looking for here except for someone to say "good job OP!".

Or a lot of people to say "You fool! That was unmustachian!" so he can expiate his guilt. ;)

[Yankuba]

I don't think this purchase is unreasonable - nor do I think it is that detrimental to FIRE based on what they are earning/saving.

The FIRE age went from 40 to 47, an increase of 70%. That's pretty detrimental.

I want to see the math. The difference between living in a studio vs. the mansion is massive but the difference between the mansion and a $350k home is only about $12k per year. And that drops to $6k if you consider that the bigger home will have $6k more appreciation each year. How will $10k or $12k per year set him back seven years if he is saving six figures per year? Each year of work should buy him ten years of living in the bigger house ($120k of annual saving divided by $12k). I can see him getting set back three years which may be worth the bigger house.

[Pigeon]

A good school district is very important to me.  I would look for a good school district even if I didn't have kids.  We've made a great deal of money off all of the houses we've sold, and that's a reason why.  I also don't mind supporting quality public education.  And generally, a good school district does mean a whole lot of people who are willing and able to pay the property taxes to support it.

I find it a little hard to believe that you couldn't have found a non-McMansion in a good school district, though, if you were willing to look a while.  Every house we've ever owned has been in a great district, but with a variety of types of housing available.  Unless the entire district is brand new construction of acres upon acres of McMansions, there are going to be some older houses from an era when people didn't need five bathrooms, two family rooms, etc.  Not all of them are going to be in terrible shape.

[amyable]

Also, if it's really the high performing school you think it is, your kid is going to have to fight tooth and claw to maintain a decent class rank.  I'm not doubting he or she will, just pointing out there are advantages of attending a "mediocre" school.

Some may say colleges look at the difficulty of the high school--I'm a 12th grade school counselor, and I find this...um...not to be true at all.  They do not have time for that.

[2527]

My family lives in one of the best school districts (like, top 2 or 3) in Pennsylvania.  We are surrounded by McMansions.  We have a very nice townhouse, which is a good size for a family of 4.  It costs about half what the McMansions cost.

[SwordGuy]

The other houses "needed a lot of work"????

So what!!!  Surely they didn't need $300,000 worth of work!!!!

6 to 12 months of effort and you could have gotten a house for 1/2 price if you had been serious.  Plus, of course, you don't need a good school district for 6 damn years!   You could have saved up the money and paid cash, thus saving yourself about $130,000 in interest for just the next six years!  And I bet you'll be paying PMI, too.

Man up and realize that this was dumb.  Learn from it.

[Elliot]

If you're eight years from having kids in school, that district might not even be a "good" district when your kids get there. And all the other punches you have received in this thread, too.

Many facepunches for you.

[johnny847]

OP I'm just going to say it. You're a moron. You don't even have kids yet and you bought a ridiculously oversized house (what are you going to do with all your bedrooms) because you wanted it in a good school district. As Elliot said, what if it's no longer a good  district by the time your kids go to school?

Or more importantly, what if it turns out you're infertile? What then? Would you adopt?

If you don't end up having kids for whatever reason then this was basically for nothing. Congrats on pushing back FIRE by seven years.

[CopperTex]

Take it from someone who is going in the other direction (downsizing from a 3400 sq ft home) you do NOT want to take this on. Owning a big home is a nightmare. I'm am absolutely giddy about the fact that our new home with only have ONE AC unit! ONE! And ONE hot water heater! Oh the joy! The house we are moving out of is big and beautiful, but the biggest pain in the ass you could imagine. Wood everywhere. Big southern wood patio front and back, wood floors, beautiful wood windows and with that comes rot, peeling paint, scuff marks that all need to be meticulously repaired because the home shoppers in the higher end market are much more discerning than for more modest houses. So when you go to sell your McMansion everything has to be perfect for a sale. The time...the money...you have to absolutely love owning a big house and not mind having it drain money out of your account every month to enjoy it. And then there's the furniture - are you really going to put thrift store furniture in your big beautiful home? Better watch it, don't get too comfy on that expensive couch or you'll scuff it up. If you get pets, need to keep them perfectly clean with trimmed nails all the time or they will scratch up those floors. Watch it when you have kids because they will want to push their toys around on those wood floors. In other words, you never really relax in a big beautiful house. And all those extra rooms you aren't using? You'll still have to pay property taxes, insurance, heat and cool, maintain, all that unused space. If you really have a mustachian mindset, all this waste will drive you mad. OP, I can't stress enough how awful owning a big beautiful house is. It really is terrible. Don't do it.

[LiveLean]

I have been to Atlanta probably 60-80 times. Because of work, I have spent probably more than a year of my life there. My in-laws and my sister-in-law's family live there, though none are from there.

I don't get Atlanta at all. COL is reasonable, but between traffic, mall-and-office park sprawl and an utter lack of outdoorsy active culture, is there a more anti-MMM place in America?

[bonjourliz]

As an Atlantan, I am curious ... what school is this house zoned to?  Assuming it is in the area i am guessing, it seems to be a decent deal. But yeah - overkill for what you truly need, and it will come with much stronger handcuffs than you expect.

Also, be aware that even the best schools are not perfect.  And in Atlanta a LOT of families choose private, even when their public school is great. The state really does its best to make it easy to go private, and I haven't seen many signs suggesting that this mindset will reverse anytime soon.  So, even though you live in a great district, you may still find that the other families in your area are sending their kids to a handful of different schools.

[slugline]

Heh, OP is going to find out very quickly one of the primary reasons you don't want a huge house: you have to clean it.

I hope you like cleaning, because you're going to be spending a lot of time doing it. Especially with kids, then the dog I'm sure they'll get (because that's what you're supposed to do).

A six-bedroom property and a quarter-million-dollar income -- and you think they are going to spending time cleaning house? No, I don't see it happening. This situation has "maid to order" written all over it.

[samburger]

Brutal honesty? This house is going to be a terrible albatross if you have a hard time getting pregnant (or can't at all). Don't buy things for babies who don't even kind of exist yet, especially things that cost half a million dollars.

[LouLou]

Your home purchase doesn't really make sense to me either. Why buy a house at all? Why move at all? You lived in the city before - is your commute getting longer? Are you handy or will you pay people to fix everything for you? Did you just get excited and buy the place, or was this a thoughtful choice based on your current and future needs?

That said - I'm not really judging. DH and I just moved into a 4 bedroom, 3 bathroom house in an inner ring suburb with an excellent school district. It's not just the two of us though. We have a cat! The house is definitely more than we need right now, but I'm okay with that.

We have a number of atypical factors though. We plan to adopt older children, so the school situation will matter much sooner than if we were having biological children. Our commutes are in opposite directions, and the house at the best point to reduce commuting time. Plus I love having people over and this house is well suited for that, location and size wise. We weighed a lot of factors, asked sensible friends about whether our decision made sense, backed away from the deal for a few weeks during negotiations, argued against it several times, debated whether to stay at our less expensive place, etc.

Not the Mustachian choice by any means, but it was a thoughtful decision. And I am so much happier here than I was at our less expensive place!

[retired?]

Heh, OP is going to find out very quickly one of the primary reasons you don't want a huge house: you have to clean it.

I hope you like cleaning, because you're going to be spending a lot of time doing it. Especially with kids, then the dog I'm sure they'll get (because that's what you're supposed to do).

A six-bedroom property and a quarter-million-dollar income -- and you think they are going to spending time cleaning house? No, I don't see it happening. This situation has "maid to order" written all over it.

Yep, and at some point, they will, like we did last fall, fire the maid. 

Good point.  There is no way they will clean the house themselves, and if she is at home with children, no way she will be cleaning it.

It's a steep, slippery slope and he's bought a ticket on that ride.

Could it be trolling?  We are chatting a lot about it (me included), but does this post warrant time?  He already bought the home and knew the responses.  Only useful reason for posting would be that he did not really want to buy the home, but his wife pressured him to and he would use our responses to convince her of the mistake.

[Can't Wait]

My parents bought a really nice house in a really nice neighborhood with really nice schools when I was like 8 years old and we stayed there until I finished high school. Everything was hunky dory for several years and I had many friends and even several different best friends....But, over time, my best friends moved away for different reasons, families came and went from the neighborhood and the place eventually became not so nice.

By the time I reached high school, the school district had gone from pretty good to the worst in the state. The high school I went to began accepting kids from lower income areas since it was a "good school" and had a special science and math program and the upper class folks began moving out of the area as a result. The area is a total dump nowadays with foreclosed homes all over the place and no sense of community at all.

Bottom line is that things change over time. That nice neighborhood you are buying into right now might not be so nice 10 years down the road.

[Wupper]

Clearly, you have the income to support a McMansion. But if it were me, I would not do it. Here's why-

People with very large salaries are easy targets for businesses looking to cut expenses, and it's hard to replace a large salary if you were let go.

But since I don't know the details of your vocation, my comments may not apply.

No facepunches from me. Enjoy your home.

[BBub]

I think it's foolish... Even at the OP's income level.  $250k after the dust settles is about $12,500/mo hitting the checking account*.  That's nice monthly cash flow, yes, but it's not super rich.  That amount can easily be squandered on jumbo mortgages, outsourced services, restaurants, big cars, nice clothes, a few fancy vacations, etc.  You can live hand to mouth on that salary. It's not infinite wealth.

Conversely, by opting for just a slightly less ridiculous lifestyle, one can amass a nice little fortune in a relatively short period with that kind of cash flow.  And have a whole lot more fun doing it, IMO.  The pursuit of bigger, newer, shinier does not lead to happiness... it generally leads to more envy and insatiable desire.

* fuzzy math assumes 2 maxed 401ks and 30% for taxes, SS, benefits, etc: ($250-$36)*.7=$149.8 / 12 = $12,483/mo

[marketnonsenses]

Clearly, you have the income to support a McMansion. But if it were me, I would not do it. Here's why-

People with very large salaries are easy targets for businesses looking to cut expenses, and it's hard to replace a large salary if you were let go.

But since I don't know the details of your vocation, my comments may not apply.

No facepunches from me. Enjoy your home.

I have no proof but I have read a few papers on how this is not true. That people with large salaries are less likely to get laid off because it is assumed they make that much because they are needed or provide an integral part of the business.

[snshijuptr]

<~ Education PhD, and I just wanted to comment that the biggest predictor for a kids success in school is not the school but the kids parents. You are upper-class earners, both of you, so your kid will probably be too. School can make a difference on top of that, but only in the "living in an unsafe ghetto with metal detectors" vs "living in the burbs". Actually, you probably have more to fear from an incompetent teacher than a school with lower test scores. Those test scores usually just reflect the population of the school's service area.

That said, I live in Southern California and plan to buy a $500-600k house for my next one. I just chose to do the tiny townhome move first before the 4 bedroom SFH until my kids are ready for school.

[Bracken_Joy]

Brutal honesty? This house is going to be a terrible albatross if you have a hard time getting pregnant (or can't at all). Don't buy things for babies who don't even kind of exist yet, especially things that cost half a million dollars.

+1. You won't want the burden of a large house and associated costs if you have to pay for fertility treatments, or go through the arduous and expensive process of adoption, or heaven forbid move closer to specific medical clinics/hospitals if you have a child with disabilities. It's dangerous to lock yourself in; children and the process of having them has a way of exploding even the most carefully laid plans.

[MoneyCat]

To be fair to the OP, some people like being part of the rat race for a longer time.  I guess some people get off on the rush of trying to meet deadlines and working overtime.  Personally, I got the smallest house that met my needs but Mustachianism isn't a lifestyle for everybody.

[The_path_less_taken]

Because this is MMM, you knew before you posted that a lot of people would facepunch/omg you.

I understand your 'stated' reasons, but like many have said...I think there might be some interesting backstory, on what the fiancé thinks and wants out of this scenario? Was one partner more on the "damn, we just HAVE to have this house bandstand!???

Like others have said, incomes change, people move, school districts morph into better/worse so you are sort of locked into maintaining your wages for your new purchase. I might not have done it.

Then again...my "I don't care: I'm buying it!" list is skewed differently from yours. I don't want to hear my neighbors fighting, and need space for farm critters, bees, and growing things. I need space, and have no problem with coyotes loping through my yard. Suburbia creeps me the fuck out, big time, and always has.

It might make more sense for me to get a smaller property but I'm thinking I "can't wanna" because it won't fulfill my need for privacy and animals.

Your post leads me to think that you really, really wanted this house. And can currently afford it.

I hope you always can, and it works out as you had hoped with kids and schools.

Please remember: part of being a grownup and a realist is being able to evaluate your situation and making changes when things DON'T work the way you had hoped.

Since at the moment you're only potentially out earnest money, it wouldn't hurt to keep looking in that school district to see if something that works better for your FIRE pops up before you sign the actual contract.

Looking is free: very MMM.

[The_path_less_taken]

Seems pricey to me but you're making bank.  Definitely lifestyle inflation though.   

I used to build homes and sell them, so I know how the thinking pattern goes.   People buy dreams but what they are really doing is creating a prison.  (houses own you,  you don't own them)

I never put updated interior light packages on my houses because they were costly and people always look at houses in the daytime.  It always seemed ironic to me that people primarily use their home as a night time abode mostly for sleeping because they are working all day to pay for their house. 

Yet at the same time they always wanted formal dinning rooms and extra bedrooms in case they ever had guests or to use for 3 hours once a year for thanksgiving dinner. 

Houses are the most consumer driven most expensive items ever marketed.   You're not alone in succumbing to this.

Mathematically at your income with a decent 50% savings rate you could have saved an additional 30K per year by foregoing the house and been retired at about the time your first child is 8 or 9.   You would have 1.5 million invested and net 60K per year.   You could still come very close to that of course with a little effort.

Houses and wedding gowns are the two items that people normally buy based purely on emotion.

And anyone who doesn't look at property they're going to buy at night, on weekends AND weekdays, early and late in the day is a fucking moron: you really should case it like a potential cat burglar.

Otherwise when you move in--in a conventional neighborhood where you can pretty much hear your neighbors-- you'll be quite surprised when the guy next door blasts Nine Inch Nails at 2am, the people across the street belong to a biker gang that sidelines in crack, and that cute little old lady two doors down lets her dogs shit all over your lawn every day.

I was looking at rental property once and the realtor kept saying I could only see it during the day, ever. So went by that night and watched the frat boys next door hurling beer bottles over the fence, peeing on the tree out front, vomiting on the rosebushes, etc.

Buyer beware, baby!

[jmusic]

Could it be trolling? 

Ding Ding!  We have a winner!   OP has been gone since post #5!!!

[thd7t]

Could it be trolling? 

Ding Ding!  We have a winner!   OP has been gone since post #5!!!

I don't think so.  OP has a journal and there were posts leading up to this (mentions putting $55k down on a house, which means 10%, so PMI is going to be piled on this, too).  I think that he just fell off the MMM wagon.

[nottoolatetostart]

Heh, OP is going to find out very quickly one of the primary reasons you don't want a huge house: you have to clean it.

I hope you like cleaning, because you're going to be spending a lot of time doing it. Especially with kids, then the dog I'm sure they'll get (because that's what you're supposed to do).

Haha....I was thinking the same thing when I read the number of rooms he will soon have. The number one biggest mistake that we did when we were newly married was buy a house (granted it was <1x our annual income), but before you have kids....why the need to "settle down"? Have fun living in the city with your soon to be new spouse..

[RunHappy]

Could it be trolling? 

Ding Ding!  We have a winner!   OP has been gone since post #5!!!

I don't think so.  OP has a journal and there were posts leading up to this (mentions putting $55k down on a house, which means 10%, so PMI is going to be piled on this, too).  I think that he just fell off the MMM wagon.

I looked up his other posts too and I think you're right, he fell way off the MMM wagon.  It looks like his closing date is late April so there is still time for him to reconsider, but we'll probably see him regretting the decision in later posts.

[gluskap]

Maybe I'm not a true Mustachian yet but I can say I understand your reasoning to some degree as we ended up buying a house a little more expensive than yours (in the high $500,000s) for similar reasons (nice surburban area, good school district, etc.).  But this was before finding MMM.  Would I still do the same thing now?  Probably since we do love our house.  Of course, we live in a HCOL area so for around the same price it's not that big (3BD+loft/3BA, 1700 sqft).  We do have a baby though so having a good school district was really important to us.  Don't mind all the facepunches.  In the end, you have to decide what makes you the happiest.  Also you have time to rethink your decision or even change your mind without backing out of the contract and losing your earnest money.  It's very possible the house could appreciate and you could sell it later and break even or even make a little money.

[Kaspian]

This sort of behaviour is usually the result of a sickness called "lusty housing virgin horniness".  It a grown-up version of the carnal thoughts which go through a teenager's mind thinking about what's going to happen with their date after the senior prom dance.  "Once we get the keys and walk through 'our' front door the first time, boy-oh-boy!!!"  (Drool.)  :P

Currently taking bets on which partner decides now that there's a giant house it better be filled with super-nice, brand new stuff!   

(Don't drink the Kool-Aid, Brother!  Don't do it!!)

[Dr. Pepper]

I don't think it was a dumb move necessarily. If you bought in a good neighborhood with good schools and it's somewhere you could see yourself living for a long period of time. If you rent out a room or 2 while your waiting for kids that will offset some of the cost. It's been said elsewhere but I think it bears repeating, borrowing at current low rates and purchase of an asset which you plan to pay off over 30 yrs is an effective short on the dollar as you retain the option to refinance if rates go down further, or keep the loan if they go up (i.e you can pay off the borrowed dollars with cheaper dollars in the future assuming inflation remains at or around historical averages around 1-3%). Lets say over a 30yr period you will pay about 866k for the home at a rate of 5.25% and 20% down. Over the same time lets say you personally will earn a total of 7 to 7.5 million before interest/tax over the same period (giving a gross estimation of wage inflation). This amounts to only around 12% of that income stream before tax, not counting your spouses income, I don't think that's an unreasonable amount to spend. With that said there are investments that will pay off much better then a personal residence, however if you enjoy it and see yourself staying there for a long period, good schools etc. that is worth something too.

[The Happy Philosopher]

I  think the price is somewhat reasonable - 2x annual income, but the hidden costs of owning a larger house are the problem. The following things will take more time/money (for most people).

1. Cleaning. I  really didn't appreciate this huge time sink until I lived in my first over-sized house. Those extra 1000 sq. ft. really do make a difference.
2. Furniture. I know everyone on this forum only buys furniture for $10 or less on craigslist, but most people really can't help themselves but buy nicer stuff when they move in to a nicer house.  I did, and I'm sure most people do as well.
3. Keeping up with the Jonses. Again, it is very hard/impossible not to do on some level. We anchor to our surroundings and that becomes our normal reference frame. One of the major themes to MMM is being aware of this and resisting but we are all human and subject to these forces at some level.
4. Utilities. Bigger house = more energy. In Atlanta I am assuming this will be mostly in the form of air conditioning.
5. Taxes. More expensive house = more taxes.
6. Maintenance. Maybe not a huge issue since it is a new house.

If retiring early is very important to you then this wasn't the greatest decision, but I don't think it's the end of the world. Try and minimize all your other expenses and next time ask of the forums BEFORE you buy!

[big_owl]

Well I can't be too quick to judge, we bought a $610k house at 23 and 24 years old making about half what you make (ahh the housing bubble....).

Well ten years later we now make more than double your income and that mortgage is still a hex over us.  It'll be paid off in a couple years, but if I had to do it all over again I would have bought a much smaller house (only two of us and our house is 3500sqft) and spent the extra on 100ac worth of property instead.  A big house means big bills everywhere else.... cleaning, multi-zone HVAC, WINDOWS, lots of drywall to crack show imperfections, large roof, etc...


But anyway, who cares at this point.  Probably not so smart, but you already knew that.  Life goes on...

[arcangel911]

That's a lot for a house..........

[Dicey]

So you already bought the house?  And just want to know what we all think of it?  Well, since you ask, it's ridiculous.  There are only two of you.  As mentioned above, it will be at least 7 years and maybe way longer before you need to even consider school districts.  It's a waste of resources.  It will cost you tons in hidden expenses like extra utilities, lawncare, cleaning, etc.  Whether you can afford it is a terrible standard.  At your income level, you can afford anything.  The question is, was this a smart purchase?  The answer is unequivocally no.

Good luck!

I will politely chime in on the other side of this question, if I may, please...

I'd suggest, as others have, that a great house in a high-demand area is more likely to appreciate well than a house in a less desirable area. Also, long ago I read that it was smarter to buy a house in a good school district and send your kids to public school than it is to buy a lesser house and send your kids to private school.

May I sugggest that until you have children, you fill the house with as many roommates as are comfortable? Use the revenue to beef up your Repair/Reserve funds before you need them. Not much wrong with buying where you want to live for a very long time. It is not cheap to buy and sell houses. Since you've already bought this one, plan on staying put until the hoped-for children grow up and move away. Make sure you maintain it over the years so you can sell it easily when it's time to downsize.

As to how much you actually paid for the house, please ignore those folk who are lucky enough to live in lower COLAs. Based on your income, it fits comfortably within general income/mortgage guidelines, so enjoy it, but make sure to keep on stuffing your retirement and investment accounts without allowing your lifestyle to creep too far.

[fartface]

Ok, mebbe I'm trolling a wee bit here, but I was also wondering what happened to the OP?

I did stumble upon this quote from him a few days ago.. "I hit 100k and it felt good! And now I'm about to go WAY back under by buying a house! Our house purchase will close on April 30 and we're putting $55,000 down."

'Doh!

And since I'm sitting here, day three of spring break w/nothing better to do, I went back and researched all my financial summaries since 1997.

At age 30, I was a stay at home mom & our gross household income was ~$75,000. Yes, I've kept meticulous records since I was 23.

That year (2004) we purchased a $250K home with $100K down. Our net worth (counting the equity) was $230,000.

So, in sum, our OP has $55K to put down, on a $550K McMansion? Meaning his net worth (counting equity) will SINK to...-$450K?

Aaargghhh. My belly aches for him. Please OP, Please return to the forum and tell us all it was just a bad dream!

[ender]

So, in sum, our OP has $55K to put down, on a $550K McMansion? Meaning his net worth (counting equity) will SINK to...-$450K?

Net worth is assets - liabilities.

In this case, the house is an asset and the mortgage a liability, so their net worth is not negative -450k.

[needmyfi]

Who looks back on their life and wishes their house was bigger? People look back on their lives and wish they had spent more time with their loved ones.

+1

[Lifestyle Deflation]

Wow! I appreciate all the feedback. I guarantee I'm not trolling.. this is my life and I prefer to talk about my situation and get advice. That's why I'm here!

Some updates since my original post, the home inspection went pretty well. There was about $5,000 worth of work that the inspector found and so we negotiated that money off the price of the house. The house is generally in good shape without major issues so that is a positive thing.

Thank you to everyone who's chimed in! Financially, I'm putting 10% down, and will have a conventional mortgage for $409,000@3.8% ++ a second mortgage@4.5% for the remainder. The good news is, I work in tech sales and should be getting an equity award + commission to help pay off the majority of the 2nd by the end of May.

I do work in the tech industry so it is possible I would get laid off. My hope (and judging by the number of LinkedIn recruiter reqeusts) is that I would be able to continue at my current or better salary. Obviously in a down market I could be screwed, so my plan is to invest/bank a ton until the next crash.

[NICE!]

Something I value a lot is having my kids go through school with the same classmates and friends from childhood to adolescence, which is why I picked the high-priced suburb.

100% overrated. I'm a military brat and traveled the world instead of having the same friends my whole childhood/life. Kids are incredibly flexible and soak up things like a sponge.

There are pros and cons to both, but I wouldn't trade my experience for the world.

Also, $5 says that my schooling in different countries and with other military kids resulted in far more diversity than a rich suburb. I don't think putting kids in a homogenous environment is all that good of an idea, so if you want to stay somewhere, you should stay somewhere diverse.

[Lifestyle Deflation]

Something I value a lot is having my kids go through school with the same classmates and friends from childhood to adolescence, which is why I picked the high-priced suburb.

100% overrated. I'm a military brat and traveled the world instead of having the same friends my whole childhood/life. Kids are incredibly flexible and soak up things like a sponge.

There are pros and cons to both, but I wouldn't trade my experience for the world.

Also, $5 says that my schooling in different countries and with other military kids resulted in far more diversity than a rich suburb. I don't think putting kids in a homogenous environment is all that good of an idea, so if you want to stay somewhere, you should stay somewhere diverse.

I would like to give my rationale for wanting my kids to have school stability.



My parents were lower-middle-class in the Atlanta area. They were constantly battling declining schools and white flight in our neighborhoods.

We moved 3-4 times to get "marginally" better schools. I never had any friends for more than a few years thanks to our moves.

My fiancee, on the other hand, was in the same school system for her entire education. She had lifelong friends and was very well adjusted.

I would never want my kids to have to deal with what I had to deal with, especially because I have the means to give them what my fiancee had.

For what it's worth.

[theadvicist]

Something I value a lot is having my kids go through school with the same classmates and friends from childhood to adolescence, which is why I picked the high-priced suburb.

100% overrated. I'm a military brat and traveled the world instead of having the same friends my whole childhood/life. Kids are incredibly flexible and soak up things like a sponge.

There are pros and cons to both, but I wouldn't trade my experience for the world.

Also, $5 says that my schooling in different countries and with other military kids resulted in far more diversity than a rich suburb. I don't think putting kids in a homogenous environment is all that good of an idea, so if you want to stay somewhere, you should stay somewhere diverse.

Yeah, I went to the same school from 7 to 18, and while I LOVED it, I never had the same best friend for more than about 2 years, IIRC. First best friend was just the kid I sat next to on the first day. Lasted 2 years. Then onto another, we were besties! But she got really into horses, I wasn't into horses. Next BF was great, then she got into sport. I didn't like sport. And so on. Throughout school and high school kids change, their interests and activities change. Looking back I hung out with whoever's interests / activities / schedule / classes matched mine. It wasn't like I picked a friend and stuck with them through 'thick and thin' because... we were kids. If you don't like my little pony this week, I'll find someone else who does!

Also, I have to echo the poster who said not to buy things for kids that don't exist yet. Seriously, would you buy a crib? I mean, you'll need one in a few years, why not get it now?! The reason is that while you -hope- you need one, you don't actually need one till you need one. Same applies for bedrooms.

[Lifestyle Deflation]

Yeah, I went to the same school from 7 to 18, and while I LOVED it, I never had the same best friend for more than about 2 years, IIRC. First best friend was just the kid I sat next to on the first day. Lasted 2 years. Then onto another, we were besties! But she got really into horses, I wasn't into horses. Next BF was great, then she got into sport. I didn't like sport. And so on. Throughout school and high school kids change, their interests and activities change. Looking back I hung out with whoever's interests / activities / schedule / classes matched mine. It wasn't like I picked a friend and stuck with them through 'thick and thin' because... we were kids. If you don't like my little pony this week, I'll find someone else who does!

Also, I have to echo the poster who said not to buy things for kids that don't exist yet. Seriously, would you buy a crib? I mean, you'll need one in a few years, why not get it now?! The reason is that while you -hope- you need one, you don't actually need one till you need one. Same applies for bedrooms.

People change, but it's a lot harder if you have to pick up and move schools thanks to decline. I know, because my family did it numerous times. Don't want to repeat that for my kids.

Trying to think ahead :) ! We have a lot of friends who bought a townhouse/"starter" house and it's a major pain in the ass to move when you have young kids. I figured we'd get ahead of the game and buy our family house first.

[Bracken_Joy]

Yeah, I went to the same school from 7 to 18, and while I LOVED it, I never had the same best friend for more than about 2 years, IIRC. First best friend was just the kid I sat next to on the first day. Lasted 2 years. Then onto another, we were besties! But she got really into horses, I wasn't into horses. Next BF was great, then she got into sport. I didn't like sport. And so on. Throughout school and high school kids change, their interests and activities change. Looking back I hung out with whoever's interests / activities / schedule / classes matched mine. It wasn't like I picked a friend and stuck with them through 'thick and thin' because... we were kids. If you don't like my little pony this week, I'll find someone else who does!

Also, I have to echo the poster who said not to buy things for kids that don't exist yet. Seriously, would you buy a crib? I mean, you'll need one in a few years, why not get it now?! The reason is that while you -hope- you need one, you don't actually need one till you need one. Same applies for bedrooms.

People change, but it's a lot harder if you have to pick up and move schools thanks to decline. I know, because my family did it numerous times. Don't want to repeat that for my kids.

Trying to think ahead :) ! We have a lot of friends who bought a townhouse/"starter" house and it's a major pain in the ass to move when you have young kids. I figured we'd get ahead of the game and buy our family house first.

What about a private or charter school that isn't district dependent? Then you have the freedom to move, change jobs/homes, etc, and your children still get to stay at the same schools.

[ender]

My fiancee, on the other hand, was in the same school system for her entire education. She had lifelong friends and was very well adjusted.

In my mid-twenties I only really stay in touch with one person from my high school, and I had the same school system my entire childhood.

Frankly it probably would have been good for me to be moving school districts, as the "I don't have to make new friends" inertia of never moving results in it being difficult for me to form meaningful friendships in life.

[rocksinmyhead]

Something I value a lot is having my kids go through school with the same classmates and friends from childhood to adolescence, which is why I picked the high-priced suburb.

100% overrated. I'm a military brat and traveled the world instead of having the same friends my whole childhood/life. Kids are incredibly flexible and soak up things like a sponge.

There are pros and cons to both, but I wouldn't trade my experience for the world.

Also, $5 says that my schooling in different countries and with other military kids resulted in far more diversity than a rich suburb. I don't think putting kids in a homogenous environment is all that good of an idea, so if you want to stay somewhere, you should stay somewhere diverse.

Yeah, I went to the same school from 7 to 18, and while I LOVED it, I never had the same best friend for more than about 2 years, IIRC. First best friend was just the kid I sat next to on the first day. Lasted 2 years. Then onto another, we were besties! But she got really into horses, I wasn't into horses. Next BF was great, then she got into sport. I didn't like sport. And so on. Throughout school and high school kids change, their interests and activities change. Looking back I hung out with whoever's interests / activities / schedule / classes matched mine. It wasn't like I picked a friend and stuck with them through 'thick and thin' because... we were kids. If you don't like my little pony this week, I'll find someone else who does!

yeah, this was my experience too. I feel like there's a middle ground... you don't have to buy THIS house NOW to ensure your kids will be in the same school district for many years. I don't think moving once when they're five is gonna kill anyone.

My fiancee, on the other hand, was in the same school system for her entire education. She had lifelong friends and was very well adjusted.

In my mid-twenties I only really stay in touch with one person from my high school, and I had the same school system my entire childhood.

Frankly it probably would have been good for me to be moving school districts, as the "I don't have to make new friends" inertia of never moving results in it being difficult for me to form meaningful friendships in life.

so true!

OP, it seems like there has to be some kind of middle ground where the house is concerned, too. I feel like a lot of people who are supporting your house purchase (and maybe you too have this mindset) feel like it's an either/or... buy a ginormous McMansion, or live in marginal neighborhoods where you must uproot your kids every two years to avoid their school which has become the setting for ghetto warfare. is this SERIOUSLY the case in Atlanta? is there NOWHERE you can buy a reasonably-sized home in a stable, established neighborhood/school district? I guess I'm just skeptical.

[RunHappy]

My fiancee, on the other hand, was in the same school system for her entire education. She had lifelong friends and was very well adjusted.

In my mid-twenties I only really stay in touch with one person from my high school, and I had the same school system my entire childhood.

Frankly it probably would have been good for me to be moving school districts, as the "I don't have to make new friends" inertia of never moving results in it being difficult for me to form meaningful friendships in life.

Interesting I had the opposite childhood. We moved every 2 years so I spent my entire childhood as "the new kid".  i have one friend that I have had since I was 6, we were penpals until we met up again at age 24 (could have been an Oprah moment), and 2 friends since senior year.  FB lets me keep in touch with the others, but out of all the kids I met, these are the 3 people whom I call on the phone on a regular basis.  On the plus side, I am AWESOME at meeting new people, regardless where I go.

[retired?]

My fiancee, on the other hand, was in the same school system for her entire education. She had lifelong friends and was very well adjusted.

In my mid-twenties I only really stay in touch with one person from my high school, and I had the same school system my entire childhood.

Frankly it probably would have been good for me to be moving school districts, as the "I don't have to make new friends" inertia of never moving results in it being difficult for me to form meaningful friendships in life.

Interesting I had the opposite childhood. We moved every 2 years so I spent my entire childhood as "the new kid".  i have one friend that I have had since I was 6, we were penpals until we met up again at age 24 (could have been an Oprah moment), and 2 friends since senior year.  FB lets me keep in touch with the others, but out of all the kids I met, these are the 3 people whom I call on the phone on a regular basis.  On the plus side, I am AWESOME at meeting new people, regardless where I go.

It can go either way.  I moved after K, after 2nd, 4th, and 8th (2 days before the start of high school in a school with 2800 kids).  It was harder for both me and my sister as we got older.  But, being a pretty girl, my sister had an easy time meeting people....they came to her.  I had a hard time and had no real friend for all of 9th and 10th grades and feel like it had a big impact on me for a while.

We moved 2 years ago.  Kids are in 5th and 7th and we will try hard to not move again (they have moved twice). 

While "besties" change, the main thing that living somewhere for a while provides is a base set of friends, whether it changes or not.  Starting from zero is hard for most kids. 

My guess is that it is individual personality, not that you moved around a lot, that makes you AWESOME at meeting new people.

That said - these comments have no bearing on the original post........NO kids at all yet!  So much will change and anything prior to say, 3rd or 4th grade won't matter at all.