Author Topic: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed  (Read 18628 times)

Polish_Hammer

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Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« on: August 11, 2016, 05:42:13 PM »
I work for megabank USA and getting abused mentally by my manager to the point where I have come very close to walking out despite the financial devastation it would have on my family.  My manager is blocking my transfer to another team as well and the workload has creased since I said I was going to move to another department.  My situation is not unique at this company and it seems to be for those of us over the age of 45.  Can't prove anything as my boss is skilled sociopath.  Does anyone know if there is a way to get medical stress leave to find another job outside or two engineer getting fired with severance which would give me enough time to find another job.  My emergency fund is 3months but more worried about the stigma of looking for a job without one.

Help

P.S. Our department has seen one person quit on medical emergency and one died of a heartattack in the last 30 days.  The stress is real

toodleoo

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2016, 05:53:23 PM »
Are you able to look for other jobs at night/on the weekends? It can be really difficult to find a position if you are unemployed.

kenaces

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2016, 06:26:52 PM »
That sucks!  I was in a spot like yours maybe 20 years back and it drove home how important having FU$ was for me. 

Things to consider doing:
1) start looking for new jobs NOW
2) put spending on lockdown and build up some more FU$
3) not sure where you live?  If in most US states don't quit as you will not be eligible for unemployment.
4) think strategically about stress management - find something daily that helps with it i.e. walk in the park, laugh with friends, yoga, guided meditation(tons of free stuff on youtube), exercise......
5) start documenting everything that you can you decide you want to go to battle with boss/corporate
6) you can likely get a doctors note to take some time off for stress/anxiety

In my case we called the home office which eventually led to them firing our boss, and us about 6 months later.  Corporate had make the decision to get rid of us(3 people) but they didn't want to make it look connected so I was last to go 12 months later.  We saw it coming so for our last ~6 months we all had time to prepare and made a big game out of it.  One guy had the same "protest tie" he wore everyday.  I grew the most ridiculous beard, and the other guy stole every post it note in the office(boss loved post it notes).  He would come into the office early just to find any new post it notes!  Even better we all continued to do good work and got new jobs easily in the same field as we had good reputations. 

When the time came for me I had a heads up.  Being ready and not giving the jerk any satisfaction was great.  I handed in my keys(we had company cars) and when he started making BS "nice guy" gesture about getting me a ride home - I smiled and told him I bought a car last month that was parked just outside the office.

Other positive thing about the ordeal is that one of those co-workers has become one of my closest friends and I still have the "protest tie" :)

Polish_Hammer

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2016, 07:15:23 PM »
Thanks Kenaces that helps.  I m a fighter by nature and would like to battle with HR.  I have some documentation but mostly circumstantial. This boss is a she and she changed an employees rating the day she joined our department. The poor bastard had worked for her before and had complained to HR and transferred out and she came over where he went to. 

Bajadoc

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2016, 07:32:15 PM »
Classic reason for people to save what they earn. Save save save and invest. You never know when there will be a job melt down. Look for a new job now, while you are still employed. Mentally distance yourself from your job and focus on building wealth and financial independence. You are not the job, you are you. Forget about all of that stress leave stuff, exist in a position of strength not weakness. Grow a pair and fight. Oh, and watch your spending.

Polish_Hammer

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2016, 09:23:52 AM »
Classic reason for people to save what they earn. Save save save and invest. You never know when there will be a job melt down. Look for a new job now, while you are still employed. Mentally distance yourself from your job and focus on building wealth and financial independence. You are not the job, you are you. Forget about all of that stress leave stuff, exist in a position of strength not weakness. Grow a pair and fight. Oh, and watch your spending.
Thanks for the comments from all. That being said. Stand up and fight, full frontal attack does not work in the world of big corporate America, especially when dealing with a senior female director with impressive skills of manipulation. I have told male managers go "F" yourself and do not hide in the corner. I know I must leave that is decided. I have 16 years of service and feel that they you should give me separation severance to search for a job. Or do I just stop working at work at force them to pry me from my seat as I build up more of my FU money?

Guesl982374

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2016, 09:38:20 AM »
Mentally distance yourself from your job and focus on building wealth and financial independence. You are not the job, you are you. Forget about all of that stress leave stuff, exist in a position of strength not weakness.

This.

I know I must leave that is decided. I have 16 years of service and feel that they you should give me separation severance to search for a job. Or do I just stop working at work at force them to pry me from my seat as I build up more of my FU money?

I vote something in between. It depends on what level in the organization you are but I personally had a similar situation in a fortune 50 company. Do what you can to add value to the business but work no more than 9 hours a day, M-F. Just say "ok" or "I understand" when your manager assigns BS work so you aren't being confrontational but then don't follow through. When asked again, say your forgot or you were focusing on this higher value task depending on the situation. By focusing on creating value, you protect yourself from being fired, you are keeping up your skills and building results for your resume. It will drive your director nuts because she won't be able to fire you but she can't control you because you have FU money.

ImCheap

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2016, 11:34:49 AM »
Start looking for a job now, its not that hard these days as all they do is scan a resume for key words. A person could just about write a pile of incoherent sentences all mushed together and the computer will scan if for the key words it wants to see and call you to setup an interview:)

In the meantime go for a good run/walk before work, don't shower for a few days during the week, spill a few cups of coffee (one down the printer for measure), cook some fish in microwave, eat lots of beans the day before any meetings with the boss, etc. With any luck you can get let go and collect unemployment until you can decide what you want to do with the rest of your life:)

I'm hitting that 50 year old milestone, I have to admit some days I feel like doing the above! The older I get the tougher it gets to deal with unreasonable people and unreasonable deadlines. I'm lucky that I still like my job for the most part and not many do what I do so when it comes to some  high stung idiot I give them a real sane deadline and if they don't like it they can pound sand.

Good Luck

FloridaDad

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2016, 12:04:05 PM »
Hammer,

You are exactly correct, standing up and fighting do not work in megacorp. Also, HR is almost always bullied by the same senior level execs in these companies, so they will not help you.

I was a 20 year veteran of working in a F500 company and ended up leaving when a sociopathic CIO took over my organization. I was a direct report, so I know first hand the type of stress and danger you are in. I also witnessed one person have a stress induced stroke in a meeting as well as another peer who died in her sleep from a hear attack. The risk is real and the common sense methods of standing up, reporting them to HR, none of these things work. There are some solutions, I hope you find them helpful:

1. I highly recommend the book, "Snakes in Suits". You can find it on Amazon, and it is an excellent read on strategies on how to deal with these people. The research is solid and was done by an M.D. that gave the same tests between a large group of "C" level execs and gave the same test to convicted sociopaths and psychopaths. The results were disturbingly similar. Anyway, great read to reassure you that "is not you" and to give you tips and strategies for coping.
2. Medical Leave: I did not pursue this, but I know several that did this successfully. One is still receiving LTD 5 years later as a result of stress induced anxiety and depression. The company pushed back hard on him, but he got a good lawyer that specializes in this area and pushed right back and won! You need to start by finding a good attorney and starting the FMLA process. You can take leave for anxiety and depression, you just need to find a competent physician that can treat properly along with legal representation.
3. Leave: This is the option that I ended up taking. The company was offering a "mini out" for people at a certain age, which essentially mention adding cash to the pension that nearly doubled it, IF I took it as a lump sum as they want people off their books. I tool the deal and left, even though I left a high paying job. I found a job in my field (IT) at a University near my retirement home and could not be happier. My son goes to college here (for free, very mustachian), and my stress level went from MAX down to zero. My advice is to look outside your normal scope of jobs and see if you can combine your new job with some sort of benefit like free tuition for your dependents (if you have any).
4. Stay and Fight and see if you can outlast him: This is also an option. In my case, the new CIO was fired about 8 months after I left. People started asking me if I was going to come back, but the well was toxic and I really had no desire.

The net net is that you can head down the medical lane, leave, or try and outlast him. I don't regret my decision, and life is much better for me. My blood pressure is 110/70 now (used to be 160/110), I have lost weight, I sleep properly every night, and I am a much better husband and father than I ever was. I suppose some people can handle the stress of a sociopath, and I used to lie to myself that I could, but in the end, it just was not for me.

Hope this helps, and trust me, I feel your pain.

Polish_Hammer

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2016, 04:19:29 PM »
Many thanks to all but especially you Florida Dad. We must be kindred spirits. You covered exactly where I am and I keep trying to tell myself that I can handle the sociopaths but I can't.  Thanks again. I love this forum

oldtoyota

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2016, 07:41:00 PM »
I work for megabank USA and getting abused mentally by my manager to the point where I have come very close to walking out despite the financial devastation it would have on my family.  My manager is blocking my transfer to another team as well and the workload has creased since I said I was going to move to another department.  My situation is not unique at this company and it seems to be for those of us over the age of 45.  Can't prove anything as my boss is skilled sociopath.  Does anyone know if there is a way to get medical stress leave to find another job outside or two engineer getting fired with severance which would give me enough time to find another job.  My emergency fund is 3months but more worried about the stigma of looking for a job without one.

Help

P.S. Our department has seen one person quit on medical emergency and one died of a heart attack in the last 30 days.  The stress is real

I worked for a sociopath and survived. It sucked big time. I watched as he drove the business into the ground and upper management did nothing. As an Xmas present, he gave a bottle of wine to an alcoholic coworker. He drove one person to resign and got probably two people fired. It's not worth the stress and aggravation.

I started a job hunt. By the time he started attacking me, I was on my out the door to a new and better job.

That job was so bad. One time, I heard a "funny" sound in the hallway. I realized it was a laugh. Someone laughed, and I had not heard a person laugh there...ever before. That's when I knew I had to get the heck out.

Take time to breathe. I needed to detach mentally from that place so that new potential employers would not pick up on my stress.




PAstash

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2016, 11:19:14 PM »
I work for megabank USA and getting abused mentally by my manager to the point where I have come very close to walking out despite the financial devastation it would have on my family.  My manager is blocking my transfer to another team as well and the workload has creased since I said I was going to move to another department.  My situation is not unique at this company and it seems to be for those of us over the age of 45.  Can't prove anything as my boss is skilled sociopath.  Does anyone know if there is a way to get medical stress leave to find another job outside or two engineer getting fired with severance which would give me enough time to find another job.  My emergency fund is 3months but more worried about the stigma of looking for a job without one.

Help

P.S. Our department has seen one person quit on medical emergency and one died of a heartattack in the last 30 days.  The stress is real

I work in a environment will people ACTUALLY try to murder you from time to time. SOOOooo take a deep breath relax. After you are in calm state of mind remind yourself of a few things. First it could be ALOT worse. (No that doesn't make what your boss does acceptable nor does it make your job enjoyable)

You could be a sex slave in a 3rd world country. You could be literally starving to death. You could be hooked on heroin. After reading these things I want you to think about and actually visualize these situations in your mind as though you are there and this is your fate. This is called negative visualization. It will give you great clarity for your situation.

Next wake up tomorrow and remind yourself... People will harm me today. They will be rude, sociopathic, uncooperative, and will attempt to sabotage you! Now accept that it will happen. It just will. Now that we have accepted that. There are things that are in our control. there are things that are out of our control. and there are things that we can control a little bit. Focus on the last prepare for the first and forget about the second.

Take a vacation day if possible spend sometime by yourself explain it to the SO/kids you need sometime to reflect on work ect. Now that you have a clear mind in dealing with this situation think about what you can change. Run the numbers/plan then proceed to action. be warned I find ALOT of time inaction is the best course. permanent solutions to temporary problems are almost never a good thing. It sounds like this gal is building a reputation perhaps she isn't long for this position. Someone may just record/prove the harassment in a anonymous way and report it to her superiors.

Best of luck hope I helped.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 11:27:22 PM by PAstash »

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2016, 01:20:08 AM »
Lots of good advice above. Here is another bit of advice - stop giving a f**k. If you've been there 16 years, this is probably hard, but what happens if you just don't care anymore?  Do exactly as you're asked within the 9 hours a day that you will volunteer at your place of employment. If you're not asked to do something, don't do it. If something comes up that you know needs to be done, hand it to your psychopath (ahem, boss), and let her deal with assigning it. Bottom line, make everything her problem.

If you don't give s f**k, there is no reason to stress out. If you end up getting fired, oh well.  In the meantime, you'll have some fun being super polite transferring the stress.

(Admittedly this is all theoretical on my part.  I'm completely stressed at work and have many of the same feelings you do. But I actually like my boss, my team and my company, so I'm not ready to bail just yet.  And I have trouble not giving a f**k...)

former player

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2016, 02:22:47 AM »
A saying I first read on this forum which is so true is "people don't leave jobs, they leave managers".

The advice to distance yourself emotionally is a good one, although difficult to follow for those of us whose emotions do get tied up in our jobs.  Anytime something happens at work that you find difficult, monitor your emotional reaction and try to turn it into a practical reaction - so and so has just done/said this, my practical reaction to it is ignore/make a note of it for future use against them/say no/make it a funny story for the mmm forum/etc and then go back to getting on with what you were doing before.

Let your SO know what the issues are at work, if you have not already done so, and start planning together for your alternate future(s).

Look around for other jobs with your current employer, as that may be easier (and feel safer) than moving to a new organisation.

Your colleague whose rating was changed the day your manager started is clearly a victim of bullying, as probably all of you are.  Document what she is doing and what the results are, using the phrase "hostile work environment".  If it is safe, can you reach out to people at the previous place this manager worked, to get information on them/coping techniques.  HR will have been involved in their move, and if the previous place had issues with them which HR know about you could link your current issues to those.

Best of luck.

Waterbug

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2016, 08:50:47 AM »
Agreed that if you can take even a few days of vacation you need to.  Take a minute and try to disconnect from the stress. Do anything to avoid the 'drama'. If you don't go for a walk on your lunch break then use it to search for jobs. I like the previous posters suggestion to look for something related but possibly more low key so you can switch everything up.

I had a similar experience when my Company brought in a new CIO (shortly after we got a new CEO). He did a complete re-org with a massive layoff and I was included in that. I was told when my last day would be and then a week before my 'last day' got a letter that it was extended for one month because they needed me to finish a project. Then I was extended again so I could train everyone that was chosen to stay since I was the only one left who knew how to run my projects. This continued for 6 months! I wanted to just walk away but if I turned down the extensions then I would forfeit my severance and potentially unemployment. Did I mention I had just found out I was pregnant when the first layoff happened? I couldn't afford to walk away from my health insurance in those circumstances, not to mention the prospects of finding a new job. Talk about stress!

I could go on and on but basically I stuck with it and was hired back on and I am still there today. The CIO lasted two years just as he had at every company before ours. I just kept my head down and did my work as much as possible the whole time. We lost a lot of great employees before anything changed. 

It doesn't sound like waiting it out is an option for you. If there are other jobs in your area get your resume out and focus on that. Find out how she is blocking your transfer to another department and if HR can help you. HR departments vary so much but if she has several complaints against her then they are more likely to help you. The higher up in HR you go the better.

In the meantime, really do try to take time to focus on your family and everything positive in your life. When you are not at work do not be focused on your work issues if at all possible. Be present with your family and reinforce that work / family balance because you need the downtime of peace and happiness to ground you when you are in stress hell from 8:00 - 5:00. Best wishes to you.

Chaplin

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2016, 06:01:22 PM »
Yes, lots of good advice here, and I'll echo some of it.

I wanted out of a situation that was probably not as bad as yours, but still quite bad for my health, happiness and family. It took quite a few years to finally make my exit (just a few months ago - see my journal), but in the year or so before I left, I made some changes that really helped minimize the damage the job was doing. I did a lot of homework to fully understand my financial situation, made some changes to help build our resilience, and most importantly, made a conscious decision to just not care what consequences might flow from things not getting done. I worked just as hard - I have my own standards - but I chose not to care about how other people evaluated my efforts.

I was skeptical about about whether I could simply decide not to care how other people assessed my work. I thought it would a bit like being told "whatever you do, don't think about white bears." It actually turned out that this was very effective. It didn't fix the problem, but it helped me survive until I changed companies and just as importantly, start the new job without being damaged goods.

So, go nuts on the budget! Any inconvenience you feel from any savings like ditching a car, cutting food expenses, or whatever, will be outweighed by the amount it reduces your dependence on the job. Then, when you do move to something better, keep the improvements and you'll have the FU money to not let a job stress you out as much again.

Polish_Hammer

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2016, 05:41:09 AM »
Thanks to all on the forum. I appreciate all the consul. I also received similar council from a director friend at megabank.  My wife who is a nurse has been monitoring my BP which has been hovering at 160/96 when I just talk about work, so I can only imagine my rate at work during a "situation".  I will be calling out sick Monday and making an appointment with my doctor so I can apply for FMLA in the short-term and have some space to take stock of my options. I still have 3 kids at home one in grad school (she pays for that), one senior year of college (we owe 10K more since we split the bill with him), and one in senior year of high school (17k per year & we will give 40k college aid). Still 2-3 years away from FU money.

FloridaDad

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2016, 06:53:30 AM »
Hammer, I think we are kindred spirits! My oldest just graduated college and is working in a research lab at another university where she will be able to earn her graduate degree. She is off the payroll! Although, are they really ever off the payroll?

My son has 3 semesters left (free tuition), and my youngest is a rising senior, but with her grades and SAT, she will get a full tuition ride, so I am so happy to have the whole college thing figured out. This was a major component of stress for me when I was at my former megacorp. You can also see the conclusion for that as well, and that is a great feeling for sure.

I read some of the other comments about just checking out mentally and not caring, but unfortunately, I was not able to do that. I tried, but it was actually more stressful to me to not care for some weird reason. I think it had a lot to do with many people reporting to me that depended on me. That was the hardest part about leaving was that I knew that the CIO would make an example of many people that worked for me and wreck their careers, which he proceeded to do. They eventually outsourced the entire department, more than 100 people lost their jobs. This weighs on me, but I had to live my life.

I still suffer (3.5 years later) what I deem as some form of PTSD from that company. My physical health is much much better, but I still go through periods of anxiety. This is normal from what I am told.

There is a nexus of pressures that combine on the many heads of household when they are in that 50 year age range, especially for single wage earner households like mine. Here were what I used to call the "weights of the world"

1. College age kids: Yes, I saved, but enough is never enough, and this is a huge weight. My advice to all is to not cave in to your childs desires to go to the name brand private university, and evaluate all offers carefully. The goal is to get in, and more importantly, get out with as little debt as possible. Lastly, if you do pick a private, negotiate, negotiate, negotiate. Never take their first scholarship offer.
2. 50 Year Old Age Discrimination: I really truly believe that especially in technology careers that age discrimination is real. This causes a feeling of "I have to stay", especially if you are in a senior leadership position and your skills are more about people and projects. I am so grateful I wound up at a university, as colleges seem to value age and experience much more so that companies these days. That was my experience, perhaps others would disagree. Being 50 is added stress....
3. The "big push": These years are supposed to be about making the big push to filling the nest egg and that simply adds to the pressure to perform and "make it another year".
4. What I call "the marathon effect": they say that marathoners "hit the wall" around mile 22 or so in a marathon, which aligns nicely with this stage of your career. I felt tired, exhausted and didn't want to set foot another moment in that office. Careers are like marathons, hitting the wall is also normal.
5. The "wildcard": Life always throws you a wildcard. In my case, winding up with a sociopath as a boss was my wildcard.

So, feeling the pressure of kids, continuing to fill the coffers, feeling older and not as competitive in the market and just plain tired combined with my wildcard of a sociopathic boss was a recipe for a stress overload.

My answer was to take a buyout deal and leave and find something both rewarding and economically feasible. I don't regret the decision, and I feel much better about myself.

I am certainly thankful for forums and discussions like this. Its therapeutic to write about it, and through doing so helps to get at the root cause of things.

Best of luck and feel free to message me if you need to bounce something off me.
FDad

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2016, 07:49:52 AM »
Also was in a situation where boss was sociopath and also of the opposite gender. 

Thank God that is in the rearview.

1. Put all your energy into finding a new job. Don't focus on anything else.  That is your one and only goal - to get out as fast as humanly possible.
2. Not to be all Tony Robbins, but try to alter your state at work in situations involving communication with boss.  Also, become completely objective about every situation. Take emotion out of the equation as much as humanly possible. Meaning don't dwell on how you were wronged. That is what will eat you alive, and you need all your energy to get off of this crazy train. 
3. Get out and don't look back. Don't try to be a hero for the next person. Don't write a grievance letter after you are out. Don't try to get them fired. All of that will likely will be futile and again will eat you alive, and you will invest way too much emotional energy in it for little to no outcome.  Your goal is to protect number one, without stepping in number two.

I would say best of luck, but you are beginning a chess match where you need to methodically extract yourself effectively with the least amount of damage to your emotional and financial state. Trust me, the other side is soo much better, so race to get there. 

KBecks

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2016, 07:53:58 AM »
My suggestion is to take a sick day or personal day for your interviews.

Also, do your job but don't feel you have to do extra.  Work hard and work smart during your shift and then leave!!  Disappear.  Go to the bathroom and sneak out the back door. :)  LOL.  You know what I mean.   Say you have an appointment after work, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Let your interviews know that you have a job and that you have a lot of work to get done.  Ask for early morning or after work interview whenever possible. 

Minimize interaction with the sociopath.  Maintain professional boundaries.  No socializing, no nothing, anything you say can be used against you, that kind of thing.  Professional is cool and business-like. 

Note, you cannot fix a true sociopath, and understand that they LIE without remorse. This is beyond your skill set to deal with.  I read something once that there is no cure, but a sociopath can be put in a system with carrots and boundaries in place where they can function reasonably well without hurting others.  That is not your task.  Your best plan is to get away.

This person can obviously use you right now and so they will want you around...  but you have some power too to set boundaries.  Figure out how much you can control and focus on those things.  That's for the short term.  Get out.

Lastly, get some daily exercise.  Go to the gym and take care of your body.  The endorphins will lift you up.  It will help your health and improve your BP.  Win win all around.

Good luck!

Background:  I did a little quick research on sociopaths when an acquaintance of mine went to prison. She is beautiful, charming, and very social.  She had multiple drunk driving tickets, then was scheduled to be in a work-release type arrangement.  She went on vacation and told the court it was a work trip.  Then she wanted more free time hours and lied about her work schedule.  When the court called her employer to verify her hours she was found out and went to jail/prison instead of work release.  Why would she lie about her schedule, I wondered?  Who lies to the court?  I thought.  Then I searched, lies without remorse, and the word sociopath came up.  I tried to understand and figure out if I could do anything to help the girl change her life for the better, but then realized she needs an experienced professional, not me.  And, I decided to separate further from our acquaintance, now that I know that lying and using people is a large part of the game.  Thankfully, I am uninteresting to her and not someone she would consider a target.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 08:21:56 AM by KBecks »

force majeure

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2016, 09:28:45 AM »
Interesting discussion, adding my similar experience;

About 5 years ago I worked in a place, the female manager had sociopathic qualities.
Tell me people, could you work in a company where it's accepted your manager is "out to get you"
Where you are constantly undermined, attacked, cricitised openly, micro-managed etc.
Eventually I walked out, after I started hearing voices in my head, "throw her out of the window"
Tell ye, mental health takes a lot longer to fix than broken limbs.
Thats when I decided on FIRE

mm1970

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2016, 01:16:28 PM »
Okay, while I have had a horrible soul sucking job at times, and some awful managers, I'm not sure that even my worst manager was a sociopath.

I did have two very awful years with a bad manager, horrible upper management.  I was reorganized and got new jobs, new assignments, new boss, 3-4 times in a year.  Often, I found out by email while out on leave with a sick child.  Work was piled on.  Management did not ask (or care) what we needed to get the work done, but would scream foul when we didn't meet their made-up deadlines.  The worst boss had a sign outside his door that said "In God we Trust, everyone else bring data", but the man NEVER looked at data!  He would make decisions based on no information.  He let one person quit and let another one go (he was the boss of the person who quit, the person who got laid off worked for me.)  Within a week, he said "wait, I didn't know she did these projects!"  And "what do you MEAN he did all these things?"  Dummy.

My coping mechanisms over those two years:
1.  I started looking for a new job.  I am now 46.  I was around 44 when I started looking.  Being over 40 and in tech, it's difficult.  Most of my coworkers in their 40s and 50s took about 3-9 months to find a new job when they were looking.  So.  Start to look now. (I got one offer that I turned down, didn't get the other job that I wanted.  However that company  never filled the position.)

2.  I started cutting my hours.  No overtime.  I would come to work, do my job, and leave.  If my kids needed me, I was there.  No longer was it even close to "company first".

3.  I religiously went for a walk on my lunch break EVERY DAY for 30 minutes.  (I should start doing that again). 

4.  I worked hard on my off hours to lose weight (it was baby weight).  I also started taking Unisom when needed so I could sleep.

5.  I reminded myself that it's just a job.  I was paid to work.  They don't own me. 

So where am I?  Well, horrible boss got laid off in round 3 of the layoffs.  I'm still here.  My pay still sucks.  Management is ... better, but not awesome.  My new boss (*#8 in 7 years) is great.  I save my pennies and I have FU money.

I agree with the others that say you cannot fix a sociopath.  I've tried here and there to learn how to work around them.  Or with them.  But it's not worth it to me to put *too* much effort into it.  I've recognized that the biggest manager issues that I currently have, I will never fix.  So, will I get fired?  No.  Will I get promoted?  No.  Right now, for me, that's good enough.

mistershankly

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2016, 04:23:48 PM »

There is a nexus of pressures that combine on the many heads of household when they are in that 50 year age range, especially for single wage earner households like mine. Here were what I used to call the "weights of the world"

1. College age kids: Yes, I saved, but enough is never enough, and this is a huge weight. My advice to all is to not cave in to your childs desires to go to the name brand private university, and evaluate all offers carefully. The goal is to get in, and more importantly, get out with as little debt as possible. Lastly, if you do pick a private, negotiate, negotiate, negotiate. Never take their first scholarship offer.
2. 50 Year Old Age Discrimination: I really truly believe that especially in technology careers that age discrimination is real. This causes a feeling of "I have to stay", especially if you are in a senior leadership position and your skills are more about people and projects. I am so grateful I wound up at a university, as colleges seem to value age and experience much more so that companies these days. That was my experience, perhaps others would disagree. Being 50 is added stress....
3. The "big push": These years are supposed to be about making the big push to filling the nest egg and that simply adds to the pressure to perform and "make it another year".
4. What I call "the marathon effect": they say that marathoners "hit the wall" around mile 22 or so in a marathon, which aligns nicely with this stage of your career. I felt tired, exhausted and didn't want to set foot another moment in that office. Careers are like marathons, hitting the wall is also normal.
5. The "wildcard": Life always throws you a wildcard. In my case, winding up with a sociopath as a boss was my wildcard.

So, feeling the pressure of kids, continuing to fill the coffers, feeling older and not as competitive in the market and just plain tired combined with my wildcard of a sociopathic boss was a recipe for a stress overload.

Wow!  You nailed this list perfectly.  I'd extend the age range to mid-40's.  The big push is something I can relate to as well.  Your description of the marathon effect is spot on.  Glad to hear that I'm not alone in this feeling.  Thank you for sharing!

For the OP, one of my visualizations that backs me off of the edge of physical and emotional crisis is thinking about my situation on the other side of whatever health catastrophe the work situation has me heading towards... imagine the day after the health event when your doctor walks in and tells you there is nothing they can do but write a prescription for pills and an oxygen tank for you to haul around as you live the rest of your life in a largely reduced capacity.  Imagine at that moment if you could roll back time and not give a shit about the crap your workplace irritated you with to get you to this point.  THIS MOMENT right here is the time rolled back and you have the opportunity to not live with any irreversible regret.  Seek counseling, get exercise, LEARN TO MEDITATE (this worked miracles in my life when I got a BP reading of 160/100), and regain any perspective that your workplace robs from you.  You and your loved ones deserve this from you more than any life force that your workplace steals from you.

Polish_Hammer

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2016, 09:11:54 AM »
Hammer, I think we are kindred spirits! My oldest just graduated college and is working in a research lab at another university where she will be able to earn her graduate degree. She is off the payroll! Although, are they really ever off the payroll?

My son has 3 semesters left (free tuition), and my youngest is a rising senior, but with her grades and SAT, she will get a full tuition ride, so I am so happy to have the whole college thing figured out. This was a major component of stress for me when I was at my former megacorp. You can also see the conclusion for that as well, and that is a great feeling for sure.

I read some of the other comments about just checking out mentally and not caring, but unfortunately, I was not able to do that. I tried, but it was actually more stressful to me to not care for some weird reason. I think it had a lot to do with many people reporting to me that depended on me. That was the hardest part about leaving was that I knew that the CIO would make an example of many people that worked for me and wreck their careers, which he proceeded to do. They eventually outsourced the entire department, more than 100 people lost their jobs. This weighs on me, but I had to live my life.

I still suffer (3.5 years later) what I deem as some form of PTSD from that company. My physical health is much much better, but I still go through periods of anxiety. This is normal from what I am told.

There is a nexus of pressures that combine on the many heads of household when they are in that 50 year age range, especially for single wage earner households like mine. Here were what I used to call the "weights of the world"

1. College age kids: Yes, I saved, but enough is never enough, and this is a huge weight. My advice to all is to not cave in to your childs desires to go to the name brand private university, and evaluate all offers carefully. The goal is to get in, and more importantly, get out with as little debt as possible. Lastly, if you do pick a private, negotiate, negotiate, negotiate. Never take their first scholarship offer.
2. 50 Year Old Age Discrimination: I really truly believe that especially in technology careers that age discrimination is real. This causes a feeling of "I have to stay", especially if you are in a senior leadership position and your skills are more about people and projects. I am so grateful I wound up at a university, as colleges seem to value age and experience much more so that companies these days. That was my experience, perhaps others would disagree. Being 50 is added stress....
3. The "big push": These years are supposed to be about making the big push to filling the nest egg and that simply adds to the pressure to perform and "make it another year".
4. What I call "the marathon effect": they say that marathoners "hit the wall" around mile 22 or so in a marathon, which aligns nicely with this stage of your career. I felt tired, exhausted and didn't want to set foot another moment in that office. Careers are like marathons, hitting the wall is also normal.
5. The "wildcard": Life always throws you a wildcard. In my case, winding up with a sociopath as a boss was my wildcard.

So, feeling the pressure of kids, continuing to fill the coffers, feeling older and not as competitive in the market and just plain tired combined with my wildcard of a sociopathic boss was a recipe for a stress overload.

My answer was to take a buyout deal and leave and find something both rewarding and economically feasible. I don't regret the decision, and I feel much better about myself.

I am certainly thankful for forums and discussions like this. Its therapeutic to write about it, and through doing so helps to get at the root cause of things.

Best of luck and feel free to message me if you need to bounce something off me.
FDad
All amens and yeses on every point. Every situation, point in life, and ultimate goal.  I have been outs sick since Monday and meet with my doctor tomorrow so that I can file for FMLA/STD with the plan to make space, meditation, expertise, etc, step back and ultimately get them to give me a severance package.  I have friends at the university of Pennsylvania (one benefit of being a good manager over the years and not a sociopath is friends)and have often thought about reaching out for a project manager or other IT job as my low stress retirement job. Thank you for the "message offer" I may very well take you up on that offer in the coming week or two.

oldtoyota

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2016, 06:15:00 AM »
Interesting discussion, adding my similar experience;

About 5 years ago I worked in a place, the female manager had sociopathic qualities.
Tell me people, could you work in a company where it's accepted your manager is "out to get you"
Where you are constantly undermined, attacked, cricitised openly, micro-managed etc.
Eventually I walked out, after I started hearing voices in my head, "throw her out of the window"
Tell ye, mental health takes a lot longer to fix than broken limbs.
Thats when I decided on FIRE

Yep. The sociopath I worked for was one of my reasons for FIRE. I decided then that I'd never be in a position like that again. Sure enough, after a lot of layoffs and so on and my good boss leaving, I ended up working for an overly anxious boss. She was not a sociopath, but she was similar to the devil. She was a bully and trying to separate me from people so she could make me believe the terrible things she said about me. I was able to leave. I decided I did not even want to wait it out. Too many things became wrong that organization. Leaving felt marvelous. The mean boss is still there. She got demoted. Many of us are baffled as to why she is kept but I think they rarely fire people.

Slee_stack

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2016, 01:40:38 PM »
In retrospect, I believe I did work for a sociopath for a couple years.  That was indeed an amazingly miserable time.

Being the stubborn SOB that I am, I chose to fight rather than give-in or run.

What a fun day it was when he tried to get me canned and I walked into an office with him and HR and an armful of supporting documents as to why his assignments and expectations were completely out of whack.  I had been so looking forward to something like this.  His jaw literally dropped and the HR rep looked at him funny.  I was in the room less than 5 minutes when HR apologized for taking me away from my work.  I left the room and my boss and HR remained there for quite some time.

After that, I never got another complaint or request from my boss.  In fact I don't think we ever said another word to each other.

He was demoted and moved to a non managerial role inside of a month.

Later on I watched and smiled as he walked out with a cardboard box in the first round of layoffs.


Still, the satisfaction was fleeting and the few years of misery building up to my 'win' were not remotely worth it. 

Thankfully, I've never had a manager come even close to that assclown.  Now I mostly just deal with lip service and empty promises.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2016, 01:42:13 PM by Slee_stack »

irishbear99

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #26 on: August 18, 2016, 09:31:03 AM »
]All amens and yeses on every point. Every situation, point in life, and ultimate goal.  I have been outs sick since Monday and meet with my doctor tomorrow so that I can file for FMLA/STD with the plan to make space, meditation, expertise, etc, step back and ultimately get them to give me a severance package.  I have friends at the university of Pennsylvania (one benefit of being a good manager over the years and not a sociopath is friends)and have often thought about reaching out for a project manager or other IT job as my low stress retirement job. Thank you for the "message offer" I may very well take you up on that offer in the coming week or two.

Would love to hear an update on how it goes with your employer. I'm about to pull the trigger on some extended medical leave (being treated for depression/anxiety), and I've got the jitters about it (see previously mentioned anxiety). I'm not gunning for a severance, but the rest of our situations sound very similar.

Good luck!

Polish_Hammer

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2016, 02:10:13 PM »
]All amens and yeses on every point. Every situation, point in life, and ultimate goal.  I have been outs sick since Monday and meet with my doctor tomorrow so that I can file for FMLA/STD with the plan to make space, meditation, expertise, etc, step back and ultimately get them to give me a severance package.  I have friends at the university of Pennsylvania (one benefit of being a good manager over the years and not a sociopath is friends)and have often thought about reaching out for a project manager or other IT job as my low stress retirement job. Thank you for the "message offer" I may very well take you up on that offer in the coming week or two.
I will update.

Would love to hear an update on how it goes with your employer. I'm about to pull the trigger on some extended medical leave (being treated for depression/anxiety), and I've got the jitters about it (see previously mentioned anxiety). I'm not gunning for a severance, but the rest of our situations sound very similar.

Good luck!

Polish_Hammer

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2016, 03:10:53 PM »
]All amens and yeses on every point. Every situation, point in life, and ultimate goal.  I have been outs sick since Monday and meet with my doctor tomorrow so that I can file for FMLA/STD with the plan to make space, meditation, expertise, etc, step back and ultimately get them to give me a severance package.  I have friends at the university of Pennsylvania (one benefit of being a good manager over the years and not a sociopath is friends)and have often thought about reaching out for a project manager or other IT job as my low stress retirement job. Thank you for the "message offer" I may very well take you up on that offer in the coming week or two.
Update: Saw family doctor and she confirmed BP through the roof and prescribed anti anxiety Meds, counseling and some blood work. She submitted my short term disability paperwork with an estimated return to work ate of 11/15 and as expected Megabank won't approve until the therapist submits paperwork saying that my mental symptoms are too severe to perform my work duties. I will have to see what the therapist says on Thursday.
Would love to hear an update on how it goes with your employer. I'm about to pull the trigger on some extended medical leave (being treated for depression/anxiety), and I've got the jitters about it (see previously mentioned anxiety). I'm not gunning for a severance, but the rest of our situations sound very similar.

Good luck!

VladTheImpaler

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2016, 08:12:55 PM »
This is such a therapeutic thread for me.
I'm glad I'm not the only one whose had to deal with sociopath female bosses.
I'm a good guy and I deal with people honestly and fairly, which makes me a target for sociopaths.

There is something extra terrible about being bullied or harassed by a female boss because you can't get physical with them.
You have to watch your body language.
You have to be so careful with every word.
You have to withstand their mental and emotional games.
In a hypothetical situation, If I had to have a shitty boss I would much prefer them to be a guy because at least I can look him in the eye and put the fear of God in him if he's trying to berate me. You do that to a woman and your basically getting fired.
Lots of double standards out there...

The best advice I ever got bout dealing with Narcisisists and sociopaths was to never try to fix them and AVOID, AVOID, AVOID.
Absolute minimal contact with NO emotions.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2016, 08:18:13 PM by VladTheImpaler »

LeRainDrop

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2016, 08:26:48 PM »
. . . I'm glad I'm not the only one whose had to deal with sociopath female bosses. . . .

Oh, no, there are MANY of us.

Quote
There is something extra terrible about being bullied or harassed by a female boss because you can't get physical with them. You have to be so careful with every word.
You have withstand their mental and emotional games.
If I have to have a shitty boss I would much rather prefer it to be a guy because at least I look him in the eye and put the fear of God in him. You do that to a woman and your basically getting fired.
Lots of double standards out there...

The best advice I ever got bout dealing with Narcisisists and sociopaths was to never try to fix them and avoid, avoid, avoid. Absolute minimal contact with NO emotions.

The research shows that women who bully are significantly more likely to target other women.  It is extremely damaging to be on the victim side.  Like you said, those women play so many mental and emotional games.  They are mean girls at heart -- manipulation, gas-lighting, lying to superiors to make themselves look better at your expense, orchestrating conflict among team members, setting impossible deadlines/workload, faking sympathy but stabbing you in the back, etc.  It is total hell.  And then when you try to explain all this to male superiors, to try to sound the alarm, many of them truly do not seem to understand what a mean girl is.  Oh, they'll say she's a bad manager or she could do certain things better, but they just can't grasp that the golden girl is a total bitch to her underlings and that her misbehavior is intentional.  No, because then you're just "paranoid," even if several other people make the same complaints and back up your version of events.

I think I was right on the verge of having a breakdown under my bully and fortunately found out that I needed surgery and was going to get a whole month of FMLA away from that.  It is pathetic, but I was so HAPPY to hear that I needed surgery!  As a side note, I discovered this website (http://www.workplacebullying.org/individuals/problem/being-bullied/) and this book really helped me to see what was happening, which helped me start on the path to recover:  The Bully at Work by Gary and Ruth Namie.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2016, 08:29:09 PM by LeRainDrop »

Livingthedream55

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2016, 02:07:28 PM »
Polish Hammer  ((((((Hugs))))))))) 

I just left a toxic (government) workplace - it took me a year to get another job - my workplace was so bad my friend at HR told me 3 - 5 people a week were turning in their notice!  This is in an agency of about 500 employees!

We had - a 50 something manager die of a heart attack hours after leaving work on a Friday - my direct boss had to text me to come help her as she was on the floor in her office vomiting and unable to stand because of an attack of vertigo -  more people crying - yelling at poor college interns - slamming doors, etc. than I have ever seen in any workplace - it was horrid.

I just want to agree with all the posters who talked about disengaging, trying not to take anything personally, not working yourself into the ground. It's not easy but you have to keep your eye on the prize which is YOU!  You need to preserve your health for now and for the future.

I came in a half hour earlier than everyone else (had breakfast at my desk and planned my to do list for the day) - took a 10 -15 minute walk at lunchtime - did deep breathing at every opportunity - ate a healthy lunch - and left as close to 6pm as I could most days (told everyone needed to catch commuter train - which was the truth). I also kept a running list of all my projects (it was up to 30 when I left) and asked - what are my priorities? which should I do first? Because it all could not be done by any one human being!   I would "sound the alarm" when time or money sensitive deadlines approached - but really did not take on the stress of a workplace culture where we were all supposed to be so grateful to have the opportunity to work there that we should "nail ourselves to the cross"

People worked long, long days, weekends, holidays and it just enabled the dysfunctional structure. The adrenaline junkies just rushed from one "code red" to another. It was a nightmare!

Please keep us posted!!




irishbear99

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2016, 03:02:59 PM »

Update: Saw family doctor and she confirmed BP through the roof and prescribed anti anxiety Meds, counseling and some blood work. She submitted my short term disability paperwork with an estimated return to work ate of 11/15 and as expected Megabank won't approve until the therapist submits paperwork saying that my mental symptoms are too severe to perform my work duties. I will have to see what the therapist says on Thursday.


Thanks for the update. Glad you were able to get things in motion. I just got my prescription today (better living through chemistry!) and will be starting my leave after next week. It's such a relief, so hang in there!

Polish_Hammer

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2016, 07:22:37 AM »
Update (or lack of).  Never been a big fan of therapists (macho programming) but I have to say I felt better having her confirm I did the right thing by stepping away. Now that I am on Meds and therapy, I'm playing the waiting game to see if my STD claim gets approved by Megabank. Another of the many games.  Will they just delay approval, will they opt for a second (technically third opinion as the medical doctor and therapist both agree on a 90 day estimated leave) or will they reject outright and force me to get a lawyer and incur more stores and cost?

WackyTomato

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2016, 11:26:38 PM »
You know there's all kinds of way to record audio and video, right? (as proof that something happened).

LeRainDrop

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2016, 11:46:39 PM »
You know there's all kinds of way to record audio and video, right? (as proof that something happened).

And different laws in every state governing whether you need 1-party, 2-party, or all-party consent.

hollyluja

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2016, 11:36:48 AM »
I came in a half hour earlier than everyone else (had breakfast at my desk and planned my to do list for the day) - took a 10 -15 minute walk at lunchtime - did deep breathing at every opportunity - ate a healthy lunch - and left as close to 6pm as I could most days (told everyone needed to catch commuter train - which was the truth). I also kept a running list of all my projects (it was up to 30 when I left) and asked - what are my priorities? which should I do first? Because it all could not be done by any one human being!   I would "sound the alarm" when time or money sensitive deadlines approached - but really did not take on the stress of a workplace culture where we were all supposed to be so grateful to have the opportunity to work there that we should "nail ourselves to the cross"

You are amazing!  I tried to do this in my last job but wasn't able to.  It took me a year to divorce both my husband and my boss.  At the time I couldn't believe there was anything better out there for me but I have a new one of each now (going on 7+ years ) and it really, truly is so much better.  It's great to have confirmation that it wasn't me - it was them.

It took me 4 years before I didn't start to shake and feel sick when I heard "can I talk to you in my office?"

hoping2retire35

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2016, 02:09:27 PM »
I agree with a lot of others but Ill add my own.

Breath and relax. What is really the worse they can do? Fire you? then what, unemployement for 6 months, yay!

The medical leave or just sick days or even drinking is only temporary. Searching, applying, and interviewing for jobs is only going to add stress to your life, lots of unknowns and it could be a while before you get a hit much less an actual job. Perhaps it got to the point where you needed some serious time off, but you will have to return and when you do you need to be ready.

1. Emotionally detach. Everything you do is just producing a product for your superiors/customers. Be logical about this. you work from 8-5 and until they call you on the weekends or caught you cheating with a coworker or something, the worse they can do is fire you, which, as said, you would want to happen anyways. The yelling, bad reviews, extra workload doesn't matter because at 5:01 it ends.
2. Positive attitude. Once you realize it is just a job and a paycheck then this will come a little more naturally. Take walks during lunch and when you first get home. This physical exertion will keep you in a good mood. Now this is hard-remember your boss, no matter how crazy, is still a person. You two obviously don't have a good relationship, start off with simple weather and weekend questions/comments. Then start to ask her about her life. She is probably under a lot of stress herself. I am no manager but I have come to learn and appreciate this. Next time she yells, throws on the work or whatever immediately put an image in your mind of her dog dying or her being told that her son will be held back another year in school-this will help temper your attitude if you feel it is uncontrollable.
3. Lower expensive, increase savings. Lowering expenses-all typical MMM things will extend existing emergency fund. increase savings even if it just expanding credit with credit cards it is still better than having power turned off or (as long as it is 0%) better than dipping into retirement savings. Look for other options, loans for tuition etc. Maybe you won't need these things but it is good to know they are available. This will give you a lot of calm knowing you have taken this control over your life and bring you peace.
4. Continue to live in the moment. Don't take sick days except for interviews. Go to work trying to accomplish something (socially). As I said before try to be friends with your boss, this isn't like trying to play favorites you just want her to know you are on her team. Be assertive or at least positive(or even just receptive) when new tasks are given to you, "Yes Boss, Ill take care of it."

Even in a new job you could find that things are just as bad or worse. Use this as a learning opportunity. I went through something similar several years ago. Felt I had no way to escape, applying for jobs but the stress kept coming. Then they gave me a negative review on my birthday. I was so pissed, what was the worse they could do, Fire Me! Once I realized that Everything else I said followed. I have since moved around in my organization. Now, my job-not what I was hired to do, which is just autopilot and instinct-is to keep others around me happy.

Ysera

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2016, 11:20:45 PM »
I hope all is well with you, Polish_Hammer. Sending hugs and good vibes your way! I was thinking of this thread this week.

I also work in a toxic office environment. I was assigned to a passive aggressive and socially awkward supervisor and his dysfunctional team a year ago when I changed departments. His boss was a sociopathic female very similar to others described here, very much a bully and not terribly bright. The office culture was basically hell since all of their negativity and insecurities rolled downhill. Luckily I was reassigned to a virtual boss this spring due to restructuring, so those bottom dwellers lost their teeth.

This week my ex-supervisor suffered a heart attack at the office. He survived and had emergency surgery, but it was surprising to most that it happened to him because he is in excellent physical shape, eats right, works out, etc. People in other departments would probably say he's had a cushy career doing a low stress sedentary job in a climate controlled office for 20+ years instead of a physical job that involves dealing with the public, working out in the weather, working tons of overtime, etc. But he spent it in an office with emotionally warped, unhappy people like himself who hoarded knowledge from each other and did whatever they could to let others struggle and fail in selfish and vain attempts to make themselves seem indispensable. 

This job put me in a dark place, and I will never forget the depression and anxiety that took over my life when I started here. I went through counseling, tried several medications my doctor prescribed, exercised daily and did everything I could to keep my head above the water. But even with all that I could not have stuck with it this long if I had not been reassigned. In fact, I am still applying for other jobs and may leave even though my new virtual boss is great, just because I still work in that office and see the same grumpies day in and day out. It is hard to separate the lingering bad feelings from the job itself. I wonder if I will ever be able to put it behind me if I stay in that office.

Sorry, I am getting off topic. My point is, the danger is very real. No job is worth my health or yours. Stay out of there for as long as you need. I hope you find a better job soon!

DaMa

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2016, 06:36:35 AM »
Here's a piece of my story from several years ago...

I went into a major depression episode (i.e. nervous breakdown).  I was approved for FMLA and STD for 6 weeks.  At the submission for more time, the FMLA was approved, but the STD was not.  The FMLA (12 weeks) and then medical leave continued to be approved for the next year. An appeal was submitted on STD which was also rejected.  I needed to get a lawyer to fight the STD decision, but was too depressed to do it.  By the time I was healthy enough to pursue, the deadlines had passed.

Get someone to be your advocate when you have depression and anxiety.

Polish_Hammer

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2016, 11:36:38 AM »
Here's a piece of my story from several years ago...

I went into a major depression episode (i.e. nervous breakdown).  I was approved for FMLA and STD for 6 weeks.  At the submission for more time, the FMLA was approved, but the STD was not.  The FMLA (12 weeks) and then medical leave continued to be approved for the next year. An appeal was submitted on STD which was also rejected.  I needed to get a lawyer to fight the STD decision, but was too depressed to do it.  By the time I was healthy enough to pursue, the deadlines had passed.

Get someone to be your advocate when you have depression and anxiety.
Sounds familiar. I was approved for 6 weeks STD which ends on 9/25. I just had my therapist submit for more time on Friday, so I may be in the same situation with FMLA but no longer getting paid.  My therapist is helping but I'm clearly am not ready to return to work and the same or worse situation.

Zamboni

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2016, 12:03:21 PM »
I'm glad you STD got approved and hope it gets extended.

Have you been able to look for another job during this time? It sounds like a full out sprint to get another job is needed. Can recruiters help you? Linked in? Friends at other banks? Friends at church or from hobbies? Tell everyone you are looking. Please leave no stone unturned, and good luck!

Polish_Hammer

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2016, 06:15:45 PM »
Update:  I returned to work on Nov 14th and the retaliatory behavior has started. I lost all my direct reports and have been layered by another manager. I have tried to move internally and have been apparently black-balled.  I will be filing a case with HR for what good that will do.

mistershankly

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2016, 06:21:40 PM »
Update:  I returned to work on Nov 14th and the retaliatory behavior has started. I lost all my direct reports and have been layered by another manager. I have tried to move internally and have been apparently black-balled.  I will be filing a case with HR for what good that will do.

Document everything carefully with time, date, and people involved.  If things escalate and you are pinched out, a good attorney will need all of the information to file a suit against the company.  A word of caution, do not record any conversations or incidents without consent as that is illegal in some states (e.g. California).  Good luck with your situation.

Polish_Hammer

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2016, 04:53:08 AM »
Yup, the recording conversations is a no-no.  I know someone here at Evilcorp that made that mistake

former player

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #45 on: December 03, 2016, 06:31:09 AM »
Contemporaneous notes (ie written as soon as possible/practicable) are pretty much as good as recordings from an evidence point of view.

I agree you should document everything.  Keep copies at home in case you lose immediate access to company systems.

Make sure you know the rules of your employment (employment contract, staff handbook, etc.) and follow them precisely.

Don't expect HR to be on your side.  Do keep a record of everything you tell them about this toxic situation.

Try to disengage emotionally.  You are no longer going to work to do a good job, you are going to work for set hours to follow set rules whether that is in the company's best interests or not.  Their loss, not yours.

Take care of yourself: nothing that happens to you at work matters more than your own wellbeing.  Put yourself first every time you do or say anything or any other employee does or says anything that affects you.

Best wishes.


Polish_Hammer

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2016, 09:13:10 AM »
Contemporaneous notes (ie written as soon as possible/practicable) are pretty much as good as recordings from an evidence point of view.

I agree you should document everything.  Keep copies at home in case you lose immediate access to company systems.

Make sure you know the rules of your employment (employment contract, staff handbook, etc.) and follow them precisely.

Don't expect HR to be on your side.  Do keep a record of everything you tell them about this toxic situation.

Try to disengage emotionally.  You are no longer going to work to do a good job, you are going to work for set hours to follow set rules whether that is in the company's best interests or not.  Their loss, not yours.

Take care of yourself: nothing that happens to you at work matters more than your own wellbeing.  Put yourself first every time you do or say anything or any other employee does or says anything that affects you.

Best wishes.
Excellent advice.  Thanks

partgypsy

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2016, 10:27:18 AM »
. . . I'm glad I'm not the only one whose had to deal with sociopath female bosses. . . .

Oh, no, there are MANY of us.

Quote
There is something extra terrible about being bullied or harassed by a female boss because you can't get physical with them. You have to be so careful with every word.
You have withstand their mental and emotional games.
If I have to have a shitty boss I would much rather prefer it to be a guy because at least I look him in the eye and put the fear of God in him. You do that to a woman and your basically getting fired.
Lots of double standards out there...

The best advice I ever got bout dealing with Narcisisists and sociopaths was to never try to fix them and avoid, avoid, avoid. Absolute minimal contact with NO emotions.

The research shows that women who bully are significantly more likely to target other women.  It is extremely damaging to be on the victim side.  Like you said, those women play so many mental and emotional games.  They are mean girls at heart -- manipulation, gas-lighting, lying to superiors to make themselves look better at your expense, orchestrating conflict among team members, setting impossible deadlines/workload, faking sympathy but stabbing you in the back, etc.  It is total hell.  And then when you try to explain all this to male superiors, to try to sound the alarm, many of them truly do not seem to understand what a mean girl is.  Oh, they'll say she's a bad manager or she could do certain things better, but they just can't grasp that the golden girl is a total bitch to her underlings and that her misbehavior is intentional.  No, because then you're just "paranoid," even if several other people make the same complaints and back up your version of events.

I think I was right on the verge of having a breakdown under my bully and fortunately found out that I needed surgery and was going to get a whole month of FMLA away from that.  It is pathetic, but I was so HAPPY to hear that I needed surgery!  As a side note, I discovered this website (http://www.workplacebullying.org/individuals/problem/being-bullied/) and this book really helped me to see what was happening, which helped me start on the path to recover:  The Bully at Work by Gary and Ruth Namie.

I find this interesting. I wound up in an abusive harassing work situation. My boss was an older female. It really came to a head was when I got pregnant, which she was emphatically against. She harassed me through my pregnancy, tried to prevent my work from being covered when I was gone, and created a hostile situation when I came back from leave.
There was times she would pull me away from doing my work, even when I was with study participants in the middle of a study, to scream at me. She ended up firing me during one of her fits. HR is there for the company and not the employees. Protect yourself by getting in a better situation, because I have no confidence that fairness rules. To be fair I was warned by both a former employee, and current employees how she was (especially about the no no about getting pregnant) but I thought they were disgruntled/exaggerating. They were not.

bebegirl

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2016, 11:13:02 AM »
I once was bullied at the job by the owner of the company. I was in such condition that I was literally forced to quit.

I applied for unemployment benefits (I just immigrated to the US a year ago and was without money) telling all the details of what has happened. Unemployment authority opened a case and interviewed me twice. The second interview took place after they interviewed the owner of the company who started to lie. I defended myself in telling  the truth and they connected the dots and figured quickly that the owner was not telling the truth.

I was given unemployment benefits and found my current job within a month.

Good luck!


bebegirl

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Re: Job stress, mental health and how to escape Advice needed
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2016, 11:30:29 AM »
In state Washington they will consider giving unemployment benefits in case you quit your job.

"Can you get benefits if you quit your job?

It depends. We'll decide if you are eligible for unemployment benefits based on the facts about your job loss. You may qualify for unemployment benefits if we decide you quit for the following good-cause reasons:

    You quit to take another job.
    You became sick or disabled, or a member of your family became sick, disabled or died, and it was necessary for you to quit work.
    You moved to be with your spouse or domestic partner whose job is outside your labor market area.
    You needed to protect yourself or immediate family members from domestic violence or stalking.
    Your employer reduced your usual pay or hours of work by 25 percent or more.
    Your employer changed the location of your job so your commute is longer or harder.
    You told your employer about a safety problem at work, and your employer did not fix the problem quickly.
    You told your employer about an illegal activity at work, and your employer did not stop the activity quickly.
    Your employer changed your usual work, and the work now goes against your religious or moral beliefs.
    You entered approved apprenticeship training.
    You started approved training under the Trade Act.
    You worked full-time and part-time jobs at the same time, and you quit the part-time job – then were laid off later from the full-time job"

https://esd.wa.gov/unemployment/quit