Is this the right forum for me?

[reader2580]

I started reading the MMM blog maybe a month ago and it has already influenced me to start rapidly paying down about $30,000 in debt between credit cards and car loan.  (Interest rates on even credit card is under 5%.)  I can probably be free of those in 18 to 24 months.  The money can then go to paying off my mortgage and savings.

I'm not sure if this is the right forum for me.  I want to save more money, but I will probably never be the guy saving 50% or 75% of my take home.  Outside of mortgage and debt payments I spend about $23,000 a year right now as a single person.  I'm working hard to break out of the habit of spending extra money instead of paying down debt or putting it in savings.  I don't have a ton of tech toys or that kind of stuff.  I will probably never think of money in terms of agonizing over spending even an extra dollar like many of you do.  I won't be selling my house to move closer to work for at least a few years since I don't have enough equity to pay for a move.

My biggest thing MMM would probably not like about my spending is my vehicle expense.  I commute 60 miles a day.  I just realized this evening that I am probably driving close to 2000 miles a month which is a lot more than I realized.  I really have to cut down on non-commute driving.  I could save $80 a month by taking the bus to work, but it also adds 10+ hours a month to my commuting time.  I may do it because it pays more hour than a minimum wage job.  I doubt I'll bike to the grocery store on a regular basis because it is 16 miles round trip.  I need to make a concerted effort to limit or eliminate driving on weekends.  I can do my grocery shopping on the way home from work.

As I said earlier I'm not sure this is the right forum for me as I will probably never be the guy saving 50% and agonizing over every dollar.  The MMM blog has certainly led me to think a little differently about money and to pay off debt much faster.

[MDM]

Maybe it is and maybe it isn't.

You might go through all the points in http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/how-to-write-a-'case-study'-topic/msg147056/#msg147056.  After organizing the information for your own use, it would then be your choice to share it or not.  A choice to share the information is neither sufficient nor necessary for the answer to the thread question to be "yes".  Going through the process itself, however, might clarify things for you.

In any case, good luck!

[fkampere]

Don't worry about it take what you can from the forum leave the rest behind.

I own a car and drive it everywhere. I go out to eat 2-3 times a week. Spend more money on alcohol then I probably should. Figure out whats important to you not some internet strangers.

[Astatine]

Depends whether you feel like you're getting anything out of the forum or not. I'm not hardcore. I will never own a bicycle, for example. I'm many years away from FIRE. I tend to focus on optimising smaller things, like grocery bills and clothes. But, what's important to me is being financially resilient on the (long) path to FIRE. Life throws you curveballs and if you have your financial house in order with no debts other than a mortgage and a decent emergency fund, it is so much easier to cope with when (not if, when) shit happens.

[arebelspy]

As I said earlier I'm not sure this is the right forum for me as I will probably never be the guy saving 50% and agonizing over every dollar.

You've fallen into a common misconception of MMM.  Many, many people think this when they first start reading.

MMM is about happiness.  Not about agonizing over dollars.

It's the difference between frugality and cheapness.  We strive to optimize things, but not sacrifice.

Stick around and read for awhile, and you'll see if it's for you, or not.  But don't dismiss it because you think you don't want to agonize over every dollar.  Most of us don't want that, and don't do so.  :)

[h82goslw]

Don't worry about it take what you can from the forum leave the rest behind.

I own a car and drive it everywhere. I go out to eat 2-3 times a week. Spend more money on alcohol then I probably should. Figure out whats important to you not some internet strangers.

This! 

I drive 40K miles per year for my job, bought my wife a huge gas sucking SUV so that I could pull my snowmobiles, and do a lot of other non-MMM things.  That being said, I fixed my own broken toilet last week which probably saved me about $200 by not calling a plumber.  Would've done that before finding this site.   There's a lot of good stuff to be learned here.....and a lot of shit people do here that I would never dream of doing. 
Take what works for you and leave the rest. 

[Eric222]

As I said earlier I'm not sure this is the right forum for me as I will probably never be the guy saving 50% and agonizing over every dollar.

You've fallen into a common misconception of MMM.  Many, many people think this when they first start reading.

MMM is about happiness.  Not about agonizing over dollars.

It's the difference between frugality and cheapness.  We strive to optimize things, but not sacrifice.

Stick around and read for awhile, and you'll see if it's for you, or not.  But don't dismiss it because you think you don't want to agonize over every dollar.  Most of us don't want that, and don't do so.  :)

What brought me around from thinking in terms of 'agonizing' over my dollars, was the idea of "what do I spend them on that adds value to my life?"  Value is different things to different people - but even as a newbie I haven't felt deprived.  If anything, I've felt empowered.  Making conscious choices about how you spend money on leaves more money left for the things you truly value. 

[sunshine]

Don't worry about it take what you can from the forum leave the rest behind.

This completely. I  don't necessarily fit but glean the info I want.

[Lski'stash]

I started using the forums because I had more specific questions after reading The MMM blogs on how to optimize the money portion of my life. This blog has been a huge blessing for me, not because I'm going to FIRE (probably won't- I like my job too much), or because I've suddenly stopped spending money (still eat out with friends, drink, etc...), but because I now know what to do with my money and how to cut down on certain expenses that I was spending way more money than I needed to on. I have, since last spring, saved money by switching our light bulbs, changing some of our services (trash, phone, etc...) and figured out how to get the BEST plan I can for my tax-deferred employee account. Because of these things, and simply making a budget and figuring out how much extra money we have a month and snowballing things once they are paid off, my husband and I have paid off $16,000 in debt since April. We still have a long way to go (another $13,000 in student loan debt and a $5,500 car loan) before we can REALLY start investing, but none of this really would have been possible without MMM and this forum.

Most of the people on here, I have found, are a lot like me:) Plus, they are VERY, VERY helpful.

[KarefulKactus15]

I would dare say most of the people on MMM strive for value.

We've strategically figured out how to extract the highest amount of happiness and usefulness from our dollars. And most of us skip the things that don't really add a lot of happiness per $.

[shelivesthedream]

YOU set your boundaries. YOU decide what is important to you. YOU decide what MMM has to offer you. Take the helpful stuff and leave the rest. We save maybe 30% of our income. I would love it to be more but we don't earn enough for that to be realistic. We're even thinking of spending more and saving less next year.

The forums can be extremely cliquey, especially about things like driving and eating out and coffee. However, if you can just ignore those bits (and the "wah wah wah, I only earn $100k a year" people) you'll find a lot of support and inspiration. I have asked for help and advice many times and as long as you are clear and specific you will get a lot of good advice. If you are defensive or general, people will call you out, though, but facepunches are not always merited.

[bacchi]

The forums can be extremely cliquey, especially about things like driving and eating out and coffee.

What's the coffee bit? Are "we" for or against coffee? :)

[reader2580]

I do notice that a lot of the people that say they save 50% to 75% of their income are over $100,000 in income, some well over.  MMM had way over $100,000 in income when both of them worked.  I make over $80k so I should be saving more. 

I made a lot of bad financial decisions in the 2000s that still affect me to this day.  Last year I sold a $340,000 house after 12 years ownership and walked away with almost zero equity.  I moved for a lot of reasons including financial.  I ended up with a $150,000 house that I got a $100,000 rehab loan on to make it like brand new for a total cost of $250,000.  I really wanted a $200,000 (or less) house, but last year those were mostly selling in a single day.  I wanted to see a bunch of houses the day they went on the market and most of them had already sold before I could get out to see them.  My property taxes for 2014 were $4,800 and for 2015 were $1,800.  Moving 15 miles makes a big difference in property tax.

If I didn't have a mortgage I realize just how little I could really live on without making any changes to my lifestyle.  A friend of mine and his wife are retired and they really struggle on around $30,000 take home.  The house is long paid for and they own really old cars.

[clarkfan1979]

Just being mindful of your spending is very MMM. MMM is against mindless spending. You can still make the conscious decision to commute as long as you are aware of the ridiculousness. Everyone has their weaknesses including MMM.

[arebelspy]

The forums can be extremely cliquey, especially about things like driving and eating out and coffee.

What's the coffee bit? Are "we" for or against coffee? :)

I was confused at that as well, but then I figured out that she's probably referring to the latte factor/daily starbucks habit.

I think we're against mindless daily consumption of it from boutique shops.

[shelivesthedream]

The forums can be extremely cliquey, especially about things like driving and eating out and coffee.

What's the coffee bit? Are "we" for or against coffee? :)

If you EVER purchase coffee out, rather than making it at home, your mustache will be ripped from your face and the stinging pain will remind you of your shame.

Sure, mindlessly buying coffee every day is stupid but it really gets me when people make it a point of pride to have not been to Starbucks in ten years, or to meet a friend there but not buy anything. I probably go to a coffee shop once or twice a month to meet up with someone and I enjoy it.

[Landlord2015]

The forums can be extremely cliquey, especially about things like driving and eating out and coffee.

What's the coffee bit? Are "we" for or against coffee? :)

If you EVER purchase coffee out, rather than making it at home, your mustache will be ripped from your face and the stinging pain will remind you of your shame.

Sure, mindlessly buying coffee every day is stupid but it really gets me when people make it a point of pride to have not been to Starbucks in ten years, or to meet a friend there but not buy anything. I probably go to a coffee shop once or twice a month to meet up with someone and I enjoy it.

These extremists that don't drink coffee outside for a decade are not according to my life style.

About this coffee my country is not super cheap if you drink outside coffee...

That said I do get discount at 2 places that I know where it costs only 1 euro.... You don't have to buy something to eat if you drink coffee, but yes sometimes I also buy something to eat.

Anyway I manage my expenses very economically, but I still enjoy life and I went to cinema this weekend so am I extreme frugal? No not extreme, but I still keep costs down and I don't own a car though I have a valid driving license. I don't need a car that simple and there are good public cheap traffic communications.

I am middle class and I am not sure if I ever become a millionaire. That said don't you dare call me call poor lol.

Currently I have enough money in an investment account so I could buy a very good car indeed without any carloan, but I choose not to since I dream of early retirement with very good lifestyle.

[The_path_less_taken]

Welcome.

It is 'your' forum, if you see something on it you like, or find something that resonates with you as an engaging concept: doesn't have to be everything on the forum. Like not being in debt, or buying a $30,000 purse, or buying the newest whatever gadget the day it hits the market. Or making wise decisions on purchases in order to retire sometime before death.

No one expects you to agree with every single item you read. That would make you a clone.

And this isn't Star Wars.

I live 30 minutes from work....24 if I drive like the wheelman at a bank robbery. I'm not moving. I have a ranch, have planted a bunch of fruit trees, have livestock...don't wanna live in town. Efficient? No.

My choice? Yes.

Make yours.

[RetiredAt63]

Ah, we will let you in on the secret.  This is not a finance blog.  There, I said it.  It is masquerading as a finance blog.  It is about avoiding hedonic adaptation and figuring out what makes you happy and not spending money on things that don't make you happy or interfere with being happy (like having a long commute for no good reason [i.e The_Path_Less_taken has a good reason for a long commute, and so did I]).

And the deeper secret is that in doing all this, we will help save the planet.


So sure you belong here.  Sometimes reading a blog like this is like decluttering, you realize some things are not needed and get rid of them, and think other stuff is untouchable, and later you realise you don't need the whatever after all, because you have changed.

[arebelspy]

The forums can be extremely cliquey, especially about things like driving and eating out and coffee.

What's the coffee bit? Are "we" for or against coffee? :)

If you EVER purchase coffee out, rather than making it at home, your mustache will be ripped from your face and the stinging pain will remind you of your shame.

Sure, mindlessly buying coffee every day is stupid but it really gets me when people make it a point of pride to have not been to Starbucks in ten years, or to meet a friend there but not buy anything. I probably go to a coffee shop once or twice a month to meet up with someone and I enjoy it.

Great, then you should keep doing it!  Not sure where you got the idea for your first sentence.  :)

[Landlord2015]

It is about avoiding hedonic adaptation and figuring out what makes you happy and not spending money on things that don't make you happy or interfere with being happy (like having a long commute for no good reason [i.e The_Path_Less_taken has a good reason for a long commute, and so did I]).

Well hedonic adaptation like drugs I never ever use drugs. I also think that most people do know that eating to much is not good.

I do drink but not so much. However when I am on holiday I might do a bit hedonic...
You see I like the Roman style which is very much sex:). That is not all if I going on holiday I like to eat good food thought food does not have to be expensive...

Prostitution In Rome - Part I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDQS3YJNUos
Prostitution is legal in my Europe country and legal in many Europe country's like Germany as it should be.

Now I am not saying it about prostitution, but when many people go to other countries they do have sex...  even more because they do not have work week and have time etc.

What I am saying most people in Europe at least if they are males and not very old do want sex during the holiday either with a lady(one night or they bring their wife or girlfriend with them) or a prostitute.

[shelivesthedream]

The forums can be extremely cliquey, especially about things like driving and eating out and coffee.

What's the coffee bit? Are "we" for or against coffee? :)

If you EVER purchase coffee out, rather than making it at home, your mustache will be ripped from your face and the stinging pain will remind you of your shame.

Sure, mindlessly buying coffee every day is stupid but it really gets me when people make it a point of pride to have not been to Starbucks in ten years, or to meet a friend there but not buy anything. I probably go to a coffee shop once or twice a month to meet up with someone and I enjoy it.

Great, then you should keep doing it!  Not sure where you got the idea for your first sentence.  :)

I have read that exact thought on the very forum. Small but vocal groups can get very dogmatic about things here and it can seem like they are the majority. They really aren't but it can be offputting. In reality you could pick any 'luxury' (I'm sure even designer handbags) and find someone here doing it and happy about it. The thing, OP, is does it REALLY make YOU happy?

[arebelspy]

The thing, OP, is does it REALLY make YOU happy?

Well said.  Most of us are pretty bad at deciding what makes us truly happy.  But if you can figure it out, life tends to become pretty simple, and cheap.

[Landlord2015]

The thing, OP, is does it REALLY make YOU happy?

Well said.  Most of us are pretty bad at deciding what makes us truly happy.  But if you can figure it out, life tends to become pretty simple, and cheap.

There is huge difference in price. From what I heard in USA a luxury escort since it is unfortunately illegal in most states of USA can cost outrageous sums like 500 dollars which sounds insane price to me.

In Finland Europe where I live it is legal the price can vary but a rough average 100 euro and that means a high standard(most likely prostitute in my country is East European white lady for example Russian, but many Finland ladies do it also) very good looking and absolutely not some drug addict ugly street woman.

Finland is absolutely not the cheapest country there are more cheap countries for prostitution. However please keep in mind that prostitution is not legal in all European countries forbidden for example in Sweden.

The most famous areas of prostitution in Europe is perhaps the city Amsterdam with Red Light District in Netherlands country. Germany as a country has crystal clear more prostitutes then any state in USA. In fact in Germany government gives full support prostitutes pays tax and they will get pension.

Now this does not of course prove that I have used any services and for the record I have never been in Amsterdam.

Now I don't want to be bad nasty apple here. If you have lovely wife and you are happy you might never consider using a prostitute.
My point being there is huge price difference depending on country and that is also related to laws.

[ShortInSeattle]

Take what's useful and leave the rest is my opinion. There are plenty of smart caring people sharing good ideas here. There are also plenty of "cheaper than thou" pissing contests and pointless debates on what is and isn't "mustachian" as if the blog is scripture that one must adhere to.

Enjoy the good stuff. There's enough of that to make swinging through the forums worthwhile.

And welcome. :)

SIS

[arebelspy]

...

[Landlord2015]

...

...

I already went offtopic... but this I have heard a long time ago from a person who visited USA but of course USA is huge the  price vary a lot depending on state and person I am sure a drug addict on street cost a fraction of a luxury escort:)

In Finland the majority of prostitutes are not drug addicts like in USA perhaps...
Now how do I know they use a lot of drugs in USA? Well I have watched youtube videos since I am curious about other countries. Please be noted this was not meant as pissing or an insult I do know that the huge majority of USA people are good hardworking people that do not use drugs.

Please can we skip this prostitution discussion enough said of that.

Here is one healthy thing I enjoy. I use an expensive gym that costs me 72 euro/month and it have group training and other nice stuff. You know a cheap gym could cost me 25 euro/month and training at home is free.

[Miss Prim]

How did this get turned into a discourse on prostitutes and how much they cost! LOL 

Anyway, to the OP, I never made enough money to put away 50% of my pay, but I consistently put away 20%.  I retired at 61 which is not very early, but I have saved enough money to retire comfortably.  I like this forum because I was always very thrifty anyway and I like the landlord advice and investing advice.  The other stuff I was doing already like driving old cars, paying off mortgage as soon as possible, etc.  But, I still drove 30 mi. one way to work because I live in the country and grow most of my own food and raise chickens, so it was worth it to me. 

Take what is important to you and leave the rest.  There are a smart bunch of people here and they are always willing to answer questions.                                     Miss Prim

[arebelspy]

Please can we skip this prostitution discussion enough said of that.

You're asking that?

You are literally the only one in the whole thread to bring it up or discuss it.  It came up quite out of the blue, from you.   Then a second post.  Now this third one.  Yet still, the only one to discuss it.  I'm just sitting here scratching my head.  :)

[RetiredAt63]

It's all my fault (hangs head).   ;-)

The whole prostitute thing came in a response to my reply about hedonic adaptation.  I was thinking of MMM hedonic adaptation; you know, leather upholstery instead of cloth in a car, turning up the heat instead of putting on a sweater. He went for straight hedonism, a la Hugh Hefner.

[Landlord2015]

It's all my fault (hangs head).   ;-)

The whole prostitute thing came in a response to my reply about hedonic adaptation.  I was thinking of MMM hedonic adaptation; you know, leather upholstery instead of cloth in a car, turning up the heat instead of putting on a sweater. He went for straight hedonism, a la Hugh Hefner.

Yes very true though the nasty man was me:-). If you read the first answer it was my reflection of what I accept and deny of true pure hedonism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonism
i.e pure as in fundamental belief and not some mild version of MMM hedonic adaptation. Honestly I really thought you talked about true hedonism and the thought intrigued me:).

[arebelspy]

We're off topic, but the OP's question does seem answered, one way or the other.

Hedonism has a bad rap for being about sex/pleasure, but it's not.. just like stoicism has a bad rap for being about not feeling emotions, but it's not about that either.  They're both good philosophies to learn about (my wife is a hedonist, an Epicurean, actually, while I am a stoic).  Ignore their common connotations of today.  :)

[reader2580]

I still don't know that this is the right place for me.  I'm never going to be Mr MM.  I do want to optimize spending, but not necessarily cut back to the bare bones.  I don't consider debt to be as much of an emergency as MMM does.  By optimizing spending and not spending I hope to be debt free besides mortgage in 18 months or less.  (My debt is all under 5%.)  I'm not going to sell my car, my house, and everything else of value to pay off my debt sooner.

I asked about optimizing spending in one specific area of spending and got chastized about owning something non-mustachian that happened to come up.  AS already mentioned in this thread there are plenty of folks here who don't subscribe 100% to the MMM way and still get benefit from the forum.

Reading the MMM blog has changed my thinking about money in a number of ways.  I realized I need to pay off my debt right away instead of the four or five years otherwise.  There is a lot of stuff in my life that I need to purge.  My winter project is to go through my house and garage and purge a LOT of stuff.  If/when I move again I will consider where places I go are located to cut down on travel.

[2lazy2retire]

I still don't know that this is the right place for me.  I'm never going to be Mr MM.  I do want to optimize spending, but not necessarily cut back to the bare bones.  I don't consider debt to be as much of an emergency as MMM does.  By optimizing spending and not spending I hope to be debt free besides mortgage in 18 months or less.  (My debt is all under 5%.)  I'm not going to sell my car, my house, and everything else of value to pay off my debt sooner.

I asked about optimizing spending in one specific area of spending and got chastized about owning something non-mustachian that happened to come up.  AS already mentioned in this thread there are plenty of folks here who don't subscribe 100% to the MMM way and still get benefit from the forum.

Reading the MMM blog has changed my thinking about money in a number of ways.  I realized I need to pay off my debt right away instead of the four or five years otherwise.  There is a lot of stuff in my life that I need to purge.  My winter project is to go through my house and garage and purge a LOT of stuff.  If/when I move again I will consider where places I go are located to cut down on travel.

Seems you have got a lot already from been here - might as well stick around

[elaine amj]

I like it because it makes me question my spending. It makes me stop to look at our "musts" and really evaluate it.

Hey, we have 2 cars and drive to work even though DH and I both live close enough to our jobs to bike it. For now, the convenience outweighs the expenses. Yes we could make do with one car, but ferrying our (teen) kids around and running errands would become more of a pain. That's OK - I'm glad I did sit and consider our "must have two cars" lifestyle and made a conscious decision about it.

[use2betrix]

This site is what you make of it and only you truly know what things you value and don't value. I probably read every post on the MMM blog twice before know this existed, and it helped me immensely. This forum has helped me as much if not more. I make a lot of choices and have done things that make many members cringe, but I'm still way better than I was.

Just use it to improve yourself. Not everyone wants to, or needs to be at level of some of these members, despite what they may tell you.

[Gone Fishing]

Even if you only do one round of optimization and never any more, you would most likely be way ahead of where you would have been otherwise. 

Along the lines of hedonism, a few years back, after hitting a net worth milestone,  I made a mostly conscious shift where I pretty much bought any hobby related item I wanted.  It took me a while, but I did eventually realize that I didn't have anywhere close to enough time to actually enjoy all those items, and in reality, I was just buying the "hope" of enjoying them.  I basically used cash to turn any day I wanted into Christmas, but never really got the Christmas break when you get to play with all your new toys.  The fleeting "joy" was just from acquisition, as I aready had plenty of gear to enjoy my hobbies as it was.  My purchases also got a lot of attention from other enthusiasts, which was fun, but there were probably times when I bought things to impress people I didn't even know (hobby forum members).  Total tab on the "experiment" was probably around $5k over a 2-3 year period and we were still saving 40-50% so it didn't hurt ER too much, but reading MMM helped me snap out of it and get me on track for what I actually needed to be happy, time. 

Also ate and drank pretty much anything I wanted during the period.  I'll have to admit that was pretty enjoyable, the simple easy social time, the fancy beers, but the sheer cost of eating out (easily 5-10x+ of home cooked/store bought) and the inevitable health consequences are enough keep the reins on those activities long term.     

[MrMoogle]

Seems you have got a lot already from been here - might as well stick around

Some of the ideas here took a while for them to sink in for me.  If you have gotten something out of it, and enjoy reading other people's opinions (even MMM's writings are opinions and not gospel), then stick around.  You don't have to agree with everything written here, actually you can't, because people disagree.  Just realize not everything said is your cup of tea.

[Bracken_Joy]

Like anything else- there's lots of in-group "mores" that have been established. Doesn't mean you need to "own" those for yourself. It sounds like you've already challenged a lot of your assumptions and habits based on your reading. That sounds to me like you're getting value (even if your take-away is "I am okay with this cost- the value is good"). If you stop getting value from the reading? Then that's a good time to stop.

For example- a long time back I was on a self-sufficiency/homesteading forum quite a bit. A lot of those people lived totally off-grid, and one family did so without any electricity at all. Was I planning/wanting to go that far? No, but I found the content that was of value to me, and held onto that.

I could probably be seen as one of those on this forum "agonizing over every dollar" if you read miscellaneous posts from me, but it's just because I love the challenge of optimizing as much as possible. I'm in a pretty low-key time of my life, and I've been enjoying the process of playing with every aspect of my spending. I don't lose any sleep over it though, or feel guilt or frustration. It's more like exercising than anything else- I'm having fun seeing how hard I can push myself, but I don't plan to keep that up forever. It's not sustainable to do that.

If you want to stay but are feeling disconnected, I highly recommend venturing into the journal section. That way, you get to know specific people and have more back drop. That really helps put things into context. Also, there tends to be less zealotry than you sometimes see in the "welcome" section- I think when people first get a paradigm shift, they tend to be much more black and white about the topic, and want to spread the word to everyone.

[Lizzy B.]

Welcome and I hope you keep hanging around here.  Forums like this benefit from having a diverse membership.  Like others have said, there are a few really vocal posters and issues that really bring out people’s vehemence (coffee is bad, but I save my popcorn for all the discussions about cars).  If you’re on the receiving side of those facepunches, it can be pretty off-putting.
 
I think you’ll find that most of us here are actually pretty moderate.  You mentioned not wanting to cut back to “bare bones”.  Spend enough time one here, and you’ll learn that very few of us want to go bare bones either.  Instead, as SheLivesTheDream and ARebelSpy says, it’s about finding what makes you happy and focusing your spending there, rather than wasting it on things that don’t bring you joy.  If you focus your efforts on the things you care about, while optimizing the other stuff, it really doesn’t feel like you’re going bare bones.  The forum is great for learning about ways you can make the non-joyful parts of your life less expensive, allowing you to buy freedom while you’re enjoying your hobbies.
 
I doubt I’ll ever do a full case study because I’d be too embarrassed to walk around in my financial underwear in front of forum members.  Part of me would like to since  I’ve made (and still am making) plenty of mistakes and still  have LOTS of room to optimize.   But I doubt I will because I don’t want to be pilloried and feel forced to defend my choice to spend on the occasional date night or my owning a pet.  Most folks are very reasonable, but some are pretty vehement.  *Shrugs* It’s like that in real life too.  The vehement responses can be a little sharp, sometimes, but they’re also really helpful in revealing assumptions that we make that might not be true.
 
Folks on here are SUPER helpful, though and have TONS of good ideas that I’d never have thought of.  We tiled a bathroom by ourselves thanks to encouragement from folks on here, we’ve gotten at least $1500 in cash back and travel rewards from credit card offers I wouldn’t have ever considered before reading about them here, and I have tons of good slow-cooker recipes too.  We are VERY MUCH a happier couple since I started coming on here, partly because we now have a shared FIRE goal, and partly because the people on here are just so INTERESTING and have new ideas about how to do something differently.
 

[boarder42]

We're off topic, but the OP's question does seem answered, one way or the other.

Hedonism has a bad rap for being about sex/pleasure, but it's not.. just like stoicism has a bad rap for being about not feeling emotions, but it's not about that either.  They're both good philosophies to learn about (my wife is a hedonist, an Epicurean, actually, while I am a stoic).  Ignore their common connotations of today.  :)

pretty sure he's just from the year Idiocracy took place and all starbucks become brothels there.  thats the only link i can make between Coffee and hookers curretnly

[Dartwa]

I'm a n00b here too, so take this with a grain of salt, but...

There will always be people more spendy than you, and people more frugal than you. Not everyone here is trying to be a direct clone of MMM; for me, my goal is to retire before age 40, so I am trying to save 50+% of my income to make it happen. When I think about working full time for the next 14 years (i.e. all the way to 40) I get sad, so I'm going to try doing it quicker. If you're saving 20% and you're content with having a 37 year working career before being able to retire comfortably, then do it! Just be sure you're aware of which of your habits are actually contributing to your overall happiness and try to optimize those.

[reader2580]

Along the lines of hedonism, a few years back, after hitting a net worth milestone,  I made a mostly conscious shift where I pretty much bought any hobby related item I wanted.  It took me a while, but I did eventually realize that I didn't have anywhere close to enough time to actually enjoy all those items, and in reality, I was just buying the "hope" of enjoying them.  I basically used cash to turn any day I wanted into Christmas, but never really got the Christmas break when you get to play with all your new toys.  The fleeting "joy" was just from acquisition, as I aready had plenty of gear to enjoy my hobbies as it was.  My purchases also got a lot of attention from other enthusiasts, which was fun, but there were probably times when I bought things to impress people I didn't even know (hobby forum members).  Total tab on the "experiment" was probably around $5k over a 2-3 year period and we were still saving 40-50% so it didn't hurt ER too much, but reading MMM helped me snap out of it and get me on track for what I actually needed to be happy, time. 

Someone I know in my hobby club went out and bought many kits and parts for the hobby.  He has built maybe one kit since he bought all that stuff.  I think he could use the money over all the hobby stuff he bought.  I've bought hobby stuff I realized I would never use, but it was only $200 worth.  I donated the stuff I wasn't going to use to a club raffle rather than move it.

[reader2580]

Unfortunately, I have gone through pretty much every credit card that offers a significant cash signup bonus, or a significant bonus that can be converted to gift cards I can use.  I don't sign up for cards that offer bonuses for travel as I rarely travel.  Some cards I have done twice although Chase cards now say you can't get the bonus more than once for the same card.  I'm probably up to at least at $2,500 worth of cash or gift cards this way.

It is harder to meet the spending requirements now without actually spending money.  There used to be Amazon Payments and Target Redbird, but they both stopped accepting credit cards as payment.  A lot of articles say just to buy gift cards to places you shop at, but I don't need enough grocery gift cards to last me a year.

[frugalnacho]

The forums can be extremely cliquey, especially about things like driving and eating out and coffee.

What's the coffee bit? Are "we" for or against coffee? :)

Anyone with a coffeesatan's rectal leakage budget greater than $0 is a fool of the highest caliber. 

[RetiredAt63]

ERE is hard core - MMM is moderate, he enjoys life, and so do most of us on here.  I am not hard core - I have a house all to myself on an acre in the country, a dog, a car (because there is no way I am cycling to the nearest big town, not when people drive 95 Kph on an 80 road with tiny shoulders), and I didn't retire until 63! We try not to need acronyms like SABLE (Stash Acquisition Beyond Life Expectancy) and terms like Cold Sheeping (knitters do tend to love their soft squishy cuddly wonderful yarns a bit too much) because we try to examine our needs and wants and live an optimized life.  And yes, I did drop cable, and I don't miss it one bit.  Too busy gardening, and reading, and knitting down the stash.

So have fun here!