Author Topic: Is it unfair to be single?  (Read 12369 times)

JGS1980

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Is it unfair to be single?
« on: December 14, 2021, 11:51:55 AM »
Vox Article:

My summary -> it's unfair that the world is setup to benefit married folks as opposed to single folks.

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/22788620/single-living-alone-cost

Thoughts?


Blackeagle

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2021, 12:03:29 PM »
I think the article conflates two different things:
  • Households have fixed costs and it’s more efficient to spread those costs over two people than one.
  • The tax code, retirement plans, social security, health insurance, etc. are often biased towards married couples.

To me, complaining about #1 is basically BS.  #2, on the other hand, is a legit complaint and something I'd like to see change.

Full disclosure: single, no kids.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2021, 12:05:14 PM by Blackeagle »

AlanStache

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2021, 12:28:02 PM »
I think the article conflates two different things:
  • Households have fixed costs and it’s more efficient to spread those costs over two people than one.
  • The tax code, retirement plans, social security, health insurance, etc. are often biased towards married couples.

To me, complaining about #1 is basically BS.  #2, on the other hand, is a legit complaint and something I'd like to see change.

Full disclosure: single, no kids.

I would quibble about your #1 being BS, while I dont think there should be some subsidy to single people, I do think couples can not appreciate what it is like to not have an SO help in the house work, home maintenance or fixed bills.  "Like dude all the bills and all the chores are 100% on me" - me to some married guy that does not get it. 

But with the article I thought it was focused almost more on the wage gaps of women and women of color than strictly speaking the cost of being single.

roomtempmayo

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2021, 12:49:36 PM »
health insurance

I think employers basing your health insurance subsidy on marital status or family size is clearly discriminatory. 

If we created an insurance system today where an employer told employees that they would pay $10,000 to all the single people for their insurance, $15,000 to all the married people, and $20,000 or more to all the people who have three or more kids, there'd be lawsuits and a general revolt.  Why can your employer base your compensation on your family size?  It sounds like some sort of pre-WWII relic, but that's how we do it.

As the article rightly notes, American society is structured on the family as the unit of analysis, sometimes explicitly, and often implicitly.  BTW, it's also the same logic that was used to deny women the right to vote.

FrugalToque

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2021, 01:12:03 PM »
My summary -> it's unfair that the world is setup to benefit married folks as opposed to single folks.

That's a little unfair, as the article specifically mentions "America" in the title.

For instance, here in Canada, we don't get to split income.  We don't get a deduction on mortgage insurance.  Prescription drug insurance is not the burden that health insurance is in the States.
There are a couple of bonuses, like the "spousal deduction", but it's nowhere near as substantial as splitting income.

When it comes to cutting costs, it's good to remember you don't have to be married to share accommodations with friends to save money.
In University, I always lived with 2 or 3 other people, even cooking meals together.
Upon arriving in Ottawa in 1997, MMM and I, along with somewhere between 1 and 5 other people, rented a house and shared rooms and fridge space.  Admittedly, 7 was too many and we quickly turned it down to 5, but we saved a lot of money and lived in acceptable housing.

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sailinlight

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2021, 02:13:37 PM »
The tax code gives breaks to married couples because marriage is good for society as it provides a stable home in which to procreate and raise children in a stable environment, and so it is encouraged by the government. Ten years ago anyone would have thought the question was ludicrous, of course society should encourage people to get married.

EvenSteven

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2021, 02:22:34 PM »
The tax code gives breaks to married couples because marriage is good for society as it provides a stable home in which to procreate and raise children in a stable environment, and so it is encouraged by the government. Ten years ago anyone would have thought the question was ludicrous, of course society should encourage people to get married.

I disagree with those asserting that the tax code gives a tax break to married couples. In general, the tax code gives a tax break to married couples where one spouse has a much higher income. But it penalizes married couples that have a similar income.

Ron Scott

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2021, 02:23:16 PM »
Inequity is such a fact of life that the words “That’s not fair.” almost sounds childish.

Two thoughts:

1. Americans have this dream of living in a country that promotes equality and fairness—and in comparison to other large countries we’re not horrible. But we are essentially founded on government-sponsored genocide of natives and the violent enslavement of imported human beings. And that ain’t fair…

The work needed to be done to achieve fairness is valuable and never-ending. Today I would focus more on unfairness toward blacks and women than single people.

2. As alluded to above, there is a general feeling among politicians that laws should be designed to foster a society the average voter can prosper in. So married people who have kids that can grow up and support the society/economy are going to get a few bones thrown their way.

‘Cest la vie.

sailinlight

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2021, 02:24:39 PM »
The tax code gives breaks to married couples because marriage is good for society as it provides a stable home in which to procreate and raise children in a stable environment, and so it is encouraged by the government. Ten years ago anyone would have thought the question was ludicrous, of course society should encourage people to get married.

I disagree with those asserting that the tax code gives a tax break to married couples. In general, the tax code gives a tax break to married couples where one spouse has a much higher income. But it penalizes married couples that have a similar income.
Agree, I assume that was probably accidental.

ixtap

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2021, 02:25:55 PM »
The tax code gives breaks to married couples because marriage is good for society as it provides a stable home in which to procreate and raise children in a stable environment, and so it is encouraged by the government. Ten years ago anyone would have thought the question was ludicrous, of course society should encourage people to get married.

There are much better ways to accomplish what you say. Moreover, this question has been around a lot longer than you think. In addition to questions the tax regulations, there have been ebbing and flowing movements for singles to recover the costs lf some of the employer benefits that families receive, such as health insurance discounts, free tuition for dependents, etc.

What I found interesting is that this article seems focused on single mothers, who still have a lot of tax benefits compared to singletons.

And then there is the marriage penalty for some couples.

PDXTabs

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2021, 02:27:18 PM »
health insurance

I think employers basing your health insurance subsidy on marital status or family size is clearly discriminatory. 

In my experience most group health insurance through workplaces now allows unwed cohabitating partners full benefits as if they were married. And then the IRS fucks you because suddenly that benefit is taxable.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2021, 02:32:05 PM by PDXTabs »

PDXTabs

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2021, 02:31:20 PM »
Why can your employer base your compensation on your family size?  It sounds like some sort of pre-WWII relic, but that's how we do it.

It is actually a relic of WWII wage controls.

One of the most important spurs to growth of employment-based health benefits was—like many other innovations—an unintended outgrowth of actions taken for other reasons during World War II (Somers and Somers, 1961; Munts, 1967; Starr, 1982; Weir et al., 1988). In 1943 the War Labor Board, which had one year earlier introduced wage and price controls, ruled that contributions to insurance and pension funds did not count as wages. In a war economy with labor shortages, employer contributions for employee health benefits became a means of maneuvering around wage controls. By the end of the war, health coverage had tripled (Weir et al., 1988).

Morning Glory

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2021, 02:44:48 PM »
I think the article conflates two different things:
  • Households have fixed costs and it’s more efficient to spread those costs over two people than one.
  • The tax code, retirement plans, social security, health insurance, etc. are often biased towards married couples.

To me, complaining about #1 is basically BS.  #2, on the other hand, is a legit complaint and something I'd like to see change.

Full disclosure: single, no kids.

I would quibble about your #1 being BS, while I dont think there should be some subsidy to single people, I do think couples can not appreciate what it is like to not have an SO help in the house work, home maintenance or fixed bills. "Like dude all the bills and all the chores are 100% on me" - me to some married guy that does not get it. 

But with the article I thought it was focused almost more on the wage gaps of women and women of color than strictly speaking the cost of being single.

lololololol

RainyDay

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2021, 02:50:51 PM »
I would quibble about your #1 being BS, while I dont think there should be some subsidy to single people, I do think couples can not appreciate what it is like to not have an SO help in the house work, home maintenance or fixed bills.  "Like dude all the bills and all the chores are 100% on me" - me to some married guy that does not get it. 

100% agree.  I lived as a single person for 20+ years and recently got married.  It is MUCH easier to maintain a home and split the work involved now.  Even silly, simple things, like hanging a picture, are easier.  Sure, I could get a friend to help, but who wants to rely on friends (many of whom don't live close by) to help with ALL the things? 

And, of course, splitting the mortgage/utilities saves me a ton of money.  Yep, roommates are possible, but not everyone wants to live with a roommate, much less several roommates, once you're over the age of 30.

mizzourah2006

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2021, 03:09:55 PM »
I would quibble about your #1 being BS, while I dont think there should be some subsidy to single people, I do think couples can not appreciate what it is like to not have an SO help in the house work, home maintenance or fixed bills.  "Like dude all the bills and all the chores are 100% on me" - me to some married guy that does not get it. 

100% agree.  I lived as a single person for 20+ years and recently got married.  It is MUCH easier to maintain a home and split the work involved now.  Even silly, simple things, like hanging a picture, are easier.  Sure, I could get a friend to help, but who wants to rely on friends (many of whom don't live close by) to help with ALL the things? 

And, of course, splitting the mortgage/utilities saves me a ton of money.  Yep, roommates are possible, but not everyone wants to live with a roommate, much less several roommates, once you're over the age of 30.

But isn't your SO in reality just a roommate? Especially from a purely financial perspective? Couldn't you say the same thing with regards to having an SO? Not everybody wants a significant other, they'd rather live alone or with roommates.

Of course it's easier when 2 or more people are splitting responsibilities for maintaining and paying for a housing. That's the case if it's your sibling(s), your parents, your SO, or roommates.

wageslave23

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2021, 03:13:46 PM »
This forum is getting more dumb by the day. This thread might be the dumbest.  Unfair to single people?! LMFAO! As someone who just got married a year ago at the age of 36, life and finances are WAY easier single.  Yeah, I could theoretically save 50% of my $1200 mortgage payment and $200 utility bill.  If you can't afford to support yourself then find someone to live with.  Somehow this helplessness is someone else's fault.  God, people love to be the victim.

HPstache

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2021, 03:16:19 PM »
I don't think it's unfair, I think it's generally a choice and like many things there's a tradeoff and the grass is greener on the other side.

AlanStache

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2021, 03:25:45 PM »
I don't think it's unfair, I think it's generally a choice and like many things there's a tradeoff and the grass is greener on the other side.

Its a choice to be single? what?  I would have thought that being single is the natural human state, few are born married or issued an SO.  Getting married or entering into a cohabitating relationship takes deliberate action. 


js82

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2021, 06:23:21 PM »
I think the article conflates two different things:
  • Households have fixed costs and it’s more efficient to spread those costs over two people than one.
  • The tax code, retirement plans, social security, health insurance, etc. are often biased towards married couples.

To me, complaining about #1 is basically BS.  #2, on the other hand, is a legit complaint and something I'd like to see change.

Full disclosure: single, no kids.

Tax codes/legislation generally favor:
1) "Traditional"/asymmetric financial situations in marriage(one dominant income-earner, with the other spouse earning significantly less)
2) Having Kids over not having kids (child tax credits are generally very popular across the political spectrum)

Agree with the general sentiment that it's not reasonable to complain about cost structures being more favorable to multi-person households, but I personally believe that:

1) Marriage should be tax-neutral(couples choosing to get married or not based on tax implications is ridiculous)
2) We should strive to keep kids out of poverty, but we shouldn't be giving well-off families additional tax breaks.

Full disclosure: married, no kids(but intending to have at least one).

Tempname23

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2021, 07:34:50 PM »
It might be, my wife's latest thing she doesn't want to walk on the grass. She got the mail tonight because she didn't want me to walk on the lawn to get it.
 It going a bit far when the wife says "get off my lawn!" :-)

Telecaster

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2021, 07:46:36 PM »
The tax code gives breaks to married couples because marriage is good for society as it provides a stable home in which to procreate and raise children in a stable environment, and so it is encouraged by the government. Ten years ago anyone would have thought the question was ludicrous, of course society should encourage people to get married.

I disagree with those asserting that the tax code gives a tax break to married couples. In general, the tax code gives a tax break to married couples where one spouse has a much higher income. But it penalizes married couples that have a similar income.
Agree, I assume that was probably accidental.

It kind of was deliberate in the sense the tax code was designed that way on purpose.    From about the late 1960s until about 2001-ish most married couples paid a tax penalty.   Some people would even get divorced in order to lower their taxes.  The original idea was that since a married couple's finances are essentially joined, a high earner (who was almost always the male at that time) should only pay taxes on his half of his earnings, and the other partner (usually female) would be pay taxes on her half.  Which in most cases cut household taxes.  But that meant you had to file a joint return.  That worked fine until the late 1960s when women began entering the workforce in large numbers and pushed household income into higher brackets.  Hence, two single-people living together filing separately could and usually did pay lower taxes than two married people.   This was known as the "marriage penalty."

 It is a nice notion the government is encouraging family unity through the tax code, but it was really to allow high earners to escape high tax brackets.  Tax reforms in the 2000s fixed a lot of the problem, but it never went away entirely.  And it probably never will go away entirely until they get rid of joint tax returns.

roomtempmayo

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2021, 08:24:15 PM »
The tax code gives breaks to married couples because marriage is good for society as it provides a stable home in which to procreate and raise children in a stable environment, and so it is encouraged by the government. Ten years ago anyone would have thought the question was ludicrous, of course society should encourage people to get married.

If marriage is a clear good for society, we should get rid of no fault divorce.

But Ronald Reagan started no fault divorce in California when he was governor, and every single state has since followed suit.

It strikes me as strange that we've gotten rid of the major barrier to divorce while maintaining the tax incentive for marriage if indeed marriage is a compelling public good.  Wouldn't it be cheaper just to restore the requirement for fault in a divorce while getting rid of the marriage tax advantages?

It seems like something more than protecting marriage might be going on here.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2021, 08:27:07 PM by caleb »

Ron Scott

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2021, 05:11:04 AM »
Ronald Reagan started no fault divorce in California when he was governor, and every single state has since followed suit.

It strikes me as strange that we've gotten rid of the major barrier to divorce while maintaining the tax incentive for marriage if indeed marriage is a compelling public good.  Wouldn't it be cheaper just to restore the requirement for fault in a divorce while getting rid of the marriage tax advantages?

It seems like something more than protecting marriage might be going on here
.


The tax code provides an incentive for divorcees to remarry.

EvenSteven

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2021, 06:48:53 AM »
The tax code gives breaks to married couples because marriage is good for society as it provides a stable home in which to procreate and raise children in a stable environment, and so it is encouraged by the government. Ten years ago anyone would have thought the question was ludicrous, of course society should encourage people to get married.

If marriage is a clear good for society, we should get rid of no fault divorce.

But Ronald Reagan started no fault divorce in California when he was governor, and every single state has since followed suit.

It strikes me as strange that we've gotten rid of the major barrier to divorce while maintaining the tax incentive for marriage if indeed marriage is a compelling public good.  Wouldn't it be cheaper just to restore the requirement for fault in a divorce while getting rid of the marriage tax advantages?

It seems like something more than protecting marriage might be going on here.

It's possible my perceptions don't perfectly line up with actual demographics, but as I mentioned up thread, It seems like more married people these days have a more even split in income, and therefor are more likely to be penalized on their taxes from marriage rather than helped by it.

maizefolk

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2021, 07:09:17 AM »
It's possible my perceptions don't perfectly line up with actual demographics, but as I mentioned up thread, It seems like more married people these days have a more even split in income, and therefor are more likely to be penalized on their taxes from marriage rather than helped by it.

It's harder for most people to be penalized on taxes for being a household of two married people vs two single households than I think you may realize.

The republican tax cuts shifted the balance even farther in favor of tax subsidies for married people than it already was. Leaving aside the impacts of the EITC (and similar welfare like subsidies for low income households) the current federal income tax brackets ensure every household making less than $652k/year (top of the 35% income tax bracket for married filing jointly + the 24k standard deduction) is either subsidized by the tax code (often dramatically) or no worse off than if they were filing as two single people.

Here's a visualization of the impact of being married (vs two single people) on the tax liability based on different potential household incomes and different proportions of total of income earned by one partner (based on the 2022 tax brackets and EITC rules). All the blue is space where the tax code gives married people an extra tax benefit. The white is where a married couple pays the same amount of tax as they would if they were single. That faint bit of red at the bottom is the impact of the EITC.


NorthernIkigai

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2021, 07:11:51 AM »
The tax code gives breaks to married couples because marriage is good for society as it provides a stable home in which to procreate and raise children in a stable environment, and so it is encouraged by the government. Ten years ago anyone would have thought the question was ludicrous, of course society should encourage people to get married.

If marriage is a clear good for society, we should get rid of no fault divorce.

But Ronald Reagan started no fault divorce in California when he was governor, and every single state has since followed suit.

It strikes me as strange that we've gotten rid of the major barrier to divorce while maintaining the tax incentive for marriage if indeed marriage is a compelling public good.  Wouldn't it be cheaper just to restore the requirement for fault in a divorce while getting rid of the marriage tax advantages?

It seems like something more than protecting marriage might be going on here.

Yeah, because if two people don’t want to be married to each other anymore, we can’t let them divorce amicably. Someone must be at fault! /s

fell-like-rain

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2021, 07:55:40 AM »
Yeah, because if two people don’t want to be married to each other anymore, we can’t let them divorce amicably. Someone must be at fault! /s

I remember reading that there were instances when a couple wanted to split up simply due to incompatibility, but they would have to set up a fake situation where one spouse would go out and "cheat" and the other would "catch" them, thus providing grounds for divorce.

Any system that produced those kinds of perverse incentives deserved to be demolished.

Morning Glory

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2021, 07:59:26 AM »
Yeah, because if two people don’t want to be married to each other anymore, we can’t let them divorce amicably. Someone must be at fault! /s

I remember reading that there were instances when a couple wanted to split up simply due to incompatibility, but they would have to set up a fake situation where one spouse would go out and "cheat" and the other would "catch" them, thus providing grounds for divorce.

Any system that produced those kinds of perverse incentives deserved to be demolished.

How do you prove something like verbal abuse?

vand

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2021, 08:03:46 AM »
The world is unfair to me because I'm single... c'mon, get a sense of perspective, FFS.

You are probably one of the luckiest people in the whole history of the world if you can afford to think in such terms.

FrugalToque

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2021, 08:10:30 AM »
The tax code gives breaks to married couples because marriage is good for society as it provides a stable home in which to procreate and raise children in a stable environment, and so it is encouraged by the government. Ten years ago anyone would have thought the question was ludicrous, of course society should encourage people to get married.

If marriage is a clear good for society, we should get rid of no fault divorce.

But Ronald Reagan started no fault divorce in California when he was governor, and every single state has since followed suit.

It strikes me as strange that we've gotten rid of the major barrier to divorce while maintaining the tax incentive for marriage if indeed marriage is a compelling public good.  Wouldn't it be cheaper just to restore the requirement for fault in a divorce while getting rid of the marriage tax advantages?
Yes, I understand there's a bit of an inconsistency there, but you really don't want to make it hard for people to get out of abusive relationships.  Admittedly, the tax incentives encourage people to get into them, but that's usually something you don't discover until later.

Quote
It seems like something more than protecting marriage might be going on here.
I think it comes down to picking demographics you want to vote for you.  Giving married people tax breaks in the name of "family!" looks pretty good on your election platform

Toque.

Greystache

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2021, 08:11:22 AM »
There are some instances where there is a penalty for being married.  In the case where one spouse has to go into a nursing home and the other spouse is perfectly healthy. The assets of both spouses are drained to pay for care, not just the sick one. Medicaid does not kick in until both spouses are impoverished.

Arbitrage

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2021, 08:15:29 AM »
It's possible my perceptions don't perfectly line up with actual demographics, but as I mentioned up thread, It seems like more married people these days have a more even split in income, and therefor are more likely to be penalized on their taxes from marriage rather than helped by it.

It's harder for most people to be penalized on taxes for being a household of two married people vs two single households than I think you may realize.

The republican tax cuts shifted the balance even farther in favor of tax subsidies for married people than it already was. Leaving aside the impacts of the EITC (and similar welfare like subsidies for low income households) the current federal income tax brackets ensure every household making less than $652k/year (top of the 35% income tax bracket for married filing jointly + the 24k standard deduction) is either subsidized by the tax code (often dramatically) or no worse off than if they were filing as two single people.

Here's a visualization of the impact of being married (vs two single people) on the tax liability based on different potential household incomes and different proportions of total of income earned by one partner (based on the 2022 tax brackets and EITC rules). All the blue is space where the tax code gives married people an extra tax benefit. The white is where a married couple pays the same amount of tax as they would if they were single. That faint bit of red at the bottom is the impact of the EITC.



That plot ignores SALT cases, where the new limits are a straight marriage penalty (though that would only affect a relatively small number of people - since I used to fall into that category it's nearer and dearer to my heart).  In general, I agree that for most people the tax benefits outweigh the penalties. 

If some of the newly proposed legislation passes, it'll add another swath to the marriage penalty crowd, since the 'not raising your taxes' threshold being passed around is $400k single / $450k married.  How sorry do I feel for the people being penalized by that?  Not a lot.

FINate

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2021, 08:43:00 AM »
There are clearly financial advantages to being married. The Economist was writing about this in the early 2000s. Two incomes (paid or not) sharing the burden of maintaining a single home... it's simple math. Other than taxes (which I'll let others here debate) the solution is to change the way we think about housing. We need a lot more co-housing type arrangements where people can share common living areas. This is such a no-brainer and could offer a cost of living for singles that's even less than a married couple.

Hash Brown

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2021, 08:53:14 AM »
The world is unfair to me because I'm single... c'mon, get a sense of perspective, FFS.

You are probably one of the luckiest people in the whole history of the world if you can afford to think in such terms.


There is machinery that churns out these ridiculous clickbait articles every day, much of them aimed at frustrated single cat ladies.  I'd be surprised if men click on them at the same rate, and if they do, they don't waste any time dwelling on them. 

Women used to sit around watching Oprah, Rikki Lake, Sally Jesse Raphael, etc., all afternoon long.  Now it's these sort of articles. 


[User banned, for this and other reasons.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2021, 05:56:35 PM by FrugalToque »

mathlete

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2021, 09:04:04 AM »
I've actually thought this for a long time. Some of the consequences are natural. Life is easier when you split household expenses and/or responsibilities. Educated people tend to marry other educated people. Etc.

Others, we do to ourselves. Married people probably shouldn't get a tax break just for being married. Having kids is another story, but the marriage thing? Nah. People probably shouldn't give gifts to married couples either. On balance this represents a transfer of wealth from the single (and ostensibly poorer) to the married (ostensibly richer).

jrhampt

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2021, 09:06:29 AM »
I think the article conflates two different things:
  • Households have fixed costs and it’s more efficient to spread those costs over two people than one.
  • The tax code, retirement plans, social security, health insurance, etc. are often biased towards married couples.

To me, complaining about #1 is basically BS.  #2, on the other hand, is a legit complaint and something I'd like to see change.

Full disclosure: single, no kids.

I would quibble about your #1 being BS, while I dont think there should be some subsidy to single people, I do think couples can not appreciate what it is like to not have an SO help in the house work, home maintenance or fixed bills. "Like dude all the bills and all the chores are 100% on me" - me to some married guy that does not get it. 

But with the article I thought it was focused almost more on the wage gaps of women and women of color than strictly speaking the cost of being single.

lololololol

Right??  There are plenty of people that get married and then just have an extra person they have to clean up after and feed, etc.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2021, 09:12:51 AM »
I'd say yes, it's unfair to be single, but not to the person who lives alone. It is unfair to society. Living alone requires more housing units to be produced, and more crap to fill those units. This contributes to sprawl and pollution, neither of which is good for society.

GuitarStv

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2021, 09:17:58 AM »
Being single sucks . . . but for reasons entirely unrelated to finance.  Life is a lot easier with a good partner having your back.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2021, 09:39:46 AM »
Yeah, because if two people don’t want to be married to each other anymore, we can’t let them divorce amicably. Someone must be at fault! /s

I remember reading that there were instances when a couple wanted to split up simply due to incompatibility, but they would have to set up a fake situation where one spouse would go out and "cheat" and the other would "catch" them, thus providing grounds for divorce.

Any system that produced those kinds of perverse incentives deserved to be demolished.

Shades of the 50s and 60s.  Seriously, my Mom told me of a couple she knew who had to do that.  Set it up, hired a PI, the whole thing.  And in reference to another discussion on the forums, the reason the got married in the first place was she got pregnant.  Lousy access to birth control and no access to abortion (they married in the 40s)- unwanted pregnancy -> unhappy marriage.  The good old days were not.

NorthernIkigai

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2021, 10:36:35 AM »
Yeah, because if two people don’t want to be married to each other anymore, we can’t let them divorce amicably. Someone must be at fault! /s

I remember reading that there were instances when a couple wanted to split up simply due to incompatibility, but they would have to set up a fake situation where one spouse would go out and "cheat" and the other would "catch" them, thus providing grounds for divorce.

Any system that produced those kinds of perverse incentives deserved to be demolished.

Shades of the 50s and 60s.  Seriously, my Mom told me of a couple she knew who had to do that.  Set it up, hired a PI, the whole thing.  And in reference to another discussion on the forums, the reason the got married in the first place was she got pregnant.  Lousy access to birth control and no access to abortion (they married in the 40s)- unwanted pregnancy -> unhappy marriage.  The good old days were not.

In England and Wales, no fault divorce will only be possible as of next year. Here’s an awful example of how the law works currently: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-44949856.

mm1970

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #40 on: December 15, 2021, 10:37:36 AM »
My summary -> it's unfair that the world is setup to benefit married folks as opposed to single folks.

That's a little unfair, as the article specifically mentions "America" in the title.

For instance, here in Canada, we don't get to split income.  We don't get a deduction on mortgage insurance.  Prescription drug insurance is not the burden that health insurance is in the States.
There are a couple of bonuses, like the "spousal deduction", but it's nowhere near as substantial as splitting income.

When it comes to cutting costs, it's good to remember you don't have to be married to share accommodations with friends to save money.
In University, I always lived with 2 or 3 other people, even cooking meals together.
Upon arriving in Ottawa in 1997, MMM and I, along with somewhere between 1 and 5 other people, rented a house and shared rooms and fridge space.  Admittedly, 7 was too many and we quickly turned it down to 5, but we saved a lot of money and lived in acceptable housing.

Toque.
And just like that I realize, for the first time ever, that you actually know MMM...

DadJokes

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #41 on: December 15, 2021, 11:16:37 AM »
I think the article conflates two different things:
  • Households have fixed costs and it’s more efficient to spread those costs over two people than one.
  • The tax code, retirement plans, social security, health insurance, etc. are often biased towards married couples.

To me, complaining about #1 is basically BS.  #2, on the other hand, is a legit complaint and something I'd like to see change.

Full disclosure: single, no kids.

#2 only matters in two cases: "traditional" single-income couples and couples where one spouse earns significantly more than the other. If both spouses earn a similar income, then the tax code doesn't really favor them any more than if they were single but living together.

There are pros and cons to being single, but I think most of those lie outside of the tax code. The advantage that I miss most is the flexibility. As a single person, you can take a job on the other side of the country and not have any issues. As a married person, I'm limited to getting jobs that won't uproot us and force my wife to also find another job.

PDXTabs

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #42 on: December 15, 2021, 11:29:36 AM »
The republican tax cuts shifted the balance even farther in favor of tax subsidies for married people than it already was.

Perhaps for most of the population, not for me. SALT cap for single: $10k, SALT cap for married filing joint: $10k, SALT cap for married filing separate: $5k

The other reason I personally know people who refuse to get married is the Roth IRA MAGI cap. Single: $125k, married filing joint: $198k, married filing separately: $0k.

Metalcat

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2021, 11:55:27 AM »
The tax code gives breaks to married couples because marriage is good for society as it provides a stable home in which to procreate and raise children in a stable environment, and so it is encouraged by the government. Ten years ago anyone would have thought the question was ludicrous, of course society should encourage people to get married.

If marriage is a clear good for society, we should get rid of no fault divorce.

But Ronald Reagan started no fault divorce in California when he was governor, and every single state has since followed suit.

It strikes me as strange that we've gotten rid of the major barrier to divorce while maintaining the tax incentive for marriage if indeed marriage is a compelling public good.  Wouldn't it be cheaper just to restore the requirement for fault in a divorce while getting rid of the marriage tax advantages?

It seems like something more than protecting marriage might be going on here.

Wait...where is it proven that marriage is a clear good for society?

I just read a book comparing Nordic systems to the US and in places like Finland, there is basically no bonus for being married, and yet there is a much lower rate of single parents.

Is "marriage" actually a proven good for society or is stable partnership? Because making marriages harder to get out of actually makes stable partnerships less possible. Many, many, many marriages are unstable and bad for everyone involved and the people in them would be better off moving on and finding more compatible partners to be stable with.

I say this as a second wife and child of very happily remarried parents who have been in stable, healthy marriages for decades after making poor choices the first time around when they were young and dumb.

EvenSteven

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2021, 11:58:41 AM »
It's possible my perceptions don't perfectly line up with actual demographics, but as I mentioned up thread, It seems like more married people these days have a more even split in income, and therefor are more likely to be penalized on their taxes from marriage rather than helped by it.

It's harder for most people to be penalized on taxes for being a household of two married people vs two single households than I think you may realize.

The republican tax cuts shifted the balance even farther in favor of tax subsidies for married people than it already was. Leaving aside the impacts of the EITC (and similar welfare like subsidies for low income households) the current federal income tax brackets ensure every household making less than $652k/year (top of the 35% income tax bracket for married filing jointly + the 24k standard deduction) is either subsidized by the tax code (often dramatically) or no worse off than if they were filing as two single people.

Here's a visualization of the impact of being married (vs two single people) on the tax liability based on different potential household incomes and different proportions of total of income earned by one partner (based on the 2022 tax brackets and EITC rules). All the blue is space where the tax code gives married people an extra tax benefit. The white is where a married couple pays the same amount of tax as they would if they were single. That faint bit of red at the bottom is the impact of the EITC.



That is a helpful image, and I remember seeing it a while ago. That is with the TCAJ tax cuts in there, right? Which would mean that only applies for a 5 or 7 year slice, or what ever the time frame of those tax cuts are.

My perception of demographics is that the majority of married people fall between the 40%-60%, and earn below $100k. So while there is a lot of blue and just a little of red there, my perception of demographics crams the majority of people outside of those dark blue areas.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2021, 12:31:06 PM »
I don’t know about being single, but I can tell you that living alone is amazing! Imagine going days, weeks, even months without ever fighting with anyone in your own home. Watch whatever you want, leave anything where you want, and find whatever you left, exactly where you left it. Fart, eat food wherever, turn the tv as loud as you want. Anything you want to do you can do without an ounce of judgement. It’s the most liberating thing in the world. Who cares if the bills are more, the lack of emotional stress is well worth it. Btw, you can live alone and still date or have a partner, so you don’t have to miss out on love. Or get a dog, you won’t get more non-judgemental love than from a dog. ;-)

Watchmaker

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2021, 12:39:51 PM »
There is machinery that churns out these ridiculous clickbait articles every day, much of them aimed at frustrated single cat ladies.  I'd be surprised if men click on them at the same rate, and if they do, they don't waste any time dwelling on them. 

Women used to sit around watching Oprah, Rikki Lake, Sally Jesse Raphael, etc., all afternoon long.  Now it's these sort of articles.

Could you give the misogyny a rest?

Davnasty

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2021, 12:43:04 PM »
There is machinery that churns out these ridiculous clickbait articles every day, much of them aimed at frustrated single cat ladies.  I'd be surprised if men click on them at the same rate, and if they do, they don't waste any time dwelling on them. 

Women used to sit around watching Oprah, Rikki Lake, Sally Jesse Raphael, etc., all afternoon long.  Now it's these sort of articles.

Could you give the misogyny a rest?

Judging by some of their other posts on the forum I'm gonna say "unlikely"

maizefolk

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2021, 12:44:55 PM »
That is a helpful image, and I remember seeing it a while ago. That is with the TCAJ tax cuts in there, right? Which would mean that only applies for a 5 or 7 year slice, or what ever the time frame of those tax cuts are.

My perception of demographics is that the majority of married people fall between the 40%-60%, and earn below $100k. So while there is a lot of blue and just a little of red there, my perception of demographics crams the majority of people outside of those dark blue areas.

Yes this is current tax law. Previously it was possible to be financially worse off a lower income levels. However, I'll also say in my entire adult life I've yet to see a "temporary" tax cut that actually got repealed on schedule.

I couldn't find good data on the distribution of income ratios among spouses in married couple households where both spouses are employed. But from the BLS only 45.5% of married couple households fall into the category of having both spouses employed at all in 2020 (49.7% in 2019 prepandemic which is probably a better metric for normal).

GuitarStv

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Re: Is it unfair to be single?
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2021, 12:48:11 PM »
I don’t know about being single, but I can tell you that living alone is amazing! Imagine going days, weeks, even months without ever fighting with anyone in your own home.

I get the same experience living with my wife . . .  but there's also sex!


:P