Author Topic: Is it even possible at my age?  (Read 7267 times)

kimura

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Is it even possible at my age?
« on: March 08, 2021, 01:12:12 PM »
I am new here and frustration, anxiety, stress, and a wake up call has led me here. I just learned of FI/RE and I have been consumed with reading and learning all about it. I have a lot of questions but my main one. Is it possible? I feel like Im getting started to late in life.

Basics about me:
47(M).
Married. 2 Kids (15 and 7).
401k around 410k.
Mortgage 360K with 200k equity.
Only debt is 18k car loan.
No cash. (I know I need to change and that's why I am here)

Good stable career I enjoy. Pays hourly and bring home 120K yearly. Sometimes more with OT.

Im determined!
I upped my Traditional 401k to 10% to get the company match.
Put 1% into company ESPP and have 5k in that account.

Any encouraging words? I could use some if there are.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 01:14:14 PM by kimura »

dandarc

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2021, 01:19:44 PM »
You've still got 20 years to traditional retirement age - of course you can still get to retirement early! $400K+ is a great place to start from as well.

For specific advice, I'd encourage you to post a case study. The exercise of filling out the spreadsheet will help you get a handle on where your money goes.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/case-studies/

kimura

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2021, 01:24:30 PM »
Definitely going to check into that. Thank you!

JimDogRock

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2021, 01:27:58 PM »
Very likely not too late. It honestly sounds like you're in better shape than a huge number of your peers.

The simple answer to "is it possible" can be answered by looking to the classic post here -  https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement/
Can you build your savings to a financially independent level fast enough to call it retiring early? If so, congrats!

My advice would be to keep it simple as you get going. Don't worry about advanced FIRE techniques yet like mega backdoor Roth contributions.

Also, make sure to be on the same page with your marriage partner. It took you 47 years to find this community, and that is super exciting. Try not to drop a huge bomb on them. Guess what? Another relevant MMM post - https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/03/22/selling-the-dream-how-to-make-your-spouse-love-frugality/
« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 01:31:02 PM by JimDogRock »

Dreamer40

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2021, 02:14:33 PM »
I’d say it’s definitely possible. And no matter what, the changes you’re starting to make will improve your financial outlook. This is exciting! Congrats on starting the journey! And you’re hardly “starting” since you have that 401K and house equity. You’ve got this.

ericrugiero

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2021, 02:30:03 PM »
It's to late for FIRE at 30 but definitely not to late for FIRE at 55.  To reach that, you will need to make some choices about what you and your spouse prioritize. 

Many here live quite happily on $20-40K/year.  If you could live on $40K you would need $1,000,000 invested (4% rule) and you have a starting point of $410K.  It's very possible to save that amount in ~8 years and retire at 55.  Is that a high enough priority to make the changes you would need?

You make $120K and spend most of it (or you would have more saved).  If you could save $26,000/year for 8 years (starting at $410K) and the stock market averaged 7% you would be at $1Million invested.  That's VERY possible with your income.  Is $1M enough to retire?  That depends on your spending.  This site is all about optimizing your spending so you aren't just spending without thought on things that don't make you happy.  Spend some time here reading and picking up tips on how to optimize.  Talk to your wife and get a plan you can both agree on.  Only you and your wife can decide how big a priority FIRE is and how much you are willing to cut to get there. 

Metalcat

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2021, 02:39:50 PM »
I'm not sure what you mean by "is it even possible at my age?"

Is what possible? Retiring early?
Of course it's possible because no matter what your situation is, if you save more aggressively, you age going to be able to retire earlier.

Earlier than what? Who knows. There's no hard line as to what retiring early looks like. For some it's managing to retire at 60 instead of 65, for others it's managing to retire at all, and yet for others it's retiring decades earlier than 65.

This isn't about retiring from paid work as quickly as possible, it's about taking control of your spending to make sure that every ounce of energy you put into earning money gives you a maximal payoff in terms of happiness. And that's critical at every age and every circumstance.

Don't get fixated on retiring by a certain age, focus on what your best life looks like and start moving towards that. Taking control of your personal finances and cutting out the useless waste spending is just a powerful first step.

Well Respected Man

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2021, 02:50:28 PM »
As someone else said, a case study might be in order. You don't say what your expenses are, but with no cash, it sounds like all available money goes out the door. Part of controlling that is tracking expenses. Another step can be increasing savings by using the old standby tricks: paying yourself first, signing up for automatic annual increases in 401k contributions, putting bonuses and raises towards savings. That helps to avoid lifestyle creep, which I think may be happening, unless you started out making $120k/year.

The final old standby trick is to increase income. You don't mention whether your spouse works, or whether they are willing to work for money, especially with the youngest child in school (well, hopefully, maybe, someday). Additional money coming in, and added to the stash can really accelerate the FIRE journey.

After you track expenses, you can usually identify lots of ways to reduce them. When I first binge read the blog, I made a list of things to cut, and identified the 10-year savings, with a 7% annual return on the savings. Examples:

Haircuts - $22 * 365/42 = 191/year = 2639 over 10 years
 
  • Maintain lawn mower, mow lawn myself - $90 every 2 weeks for 20 weeks + $200 twice/year = 2000/year = 28,743 after 10 years


I did both of these, and as a bonus, I learned how to cut my hair, and how better to maintain my (human-powered) lawn mower. It took a while, but my wife is now very much on board, and my kids (now 20 and 22) seem to have absorbed some of the habits and thinking.

kimura

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2021, 03:22:29 PM »
Thanks for all the replies!
Definitely got my mind moving. I’d love to retire before 62 or even 60!
I guess that’s what the post title question is. I know there are lots of questions to be answered here but I suspect a case study would be the place to answer those. But in a nutshell yes my wife recently started working and we don’t have anything saved because we buy stuff we don’t need and splurge. That’s all gonna get controlled. Definitely heard a few things I wanted to hear in the replies so far. Thank you.

robartsd

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2021, 03:52:29 PM »
At 120k, your household income is about twice the median, so there must be plenty of opportunity to cut spending and save about 50% of your income which would probably have you FI in less then 10 years (if you'd be willing to live on $40k per year, you could be FI in about 5 years). If you just keep on saving about 10% as you indicate you currently are, you should have a solid retirement at normal retirement age. You need to decide together with your wife what spending is and is not worth it after considering the how the spending affects how soon you can reach FI. A case study would provide a lot of feedback on how you might cut spending. To learn more about how to save efficiently, check out the Investment Order thread.

jeroly

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2021, 05:59:37 PM »
Running through your numbers, I think you might be able to FIRE at your current levels of savings and expenditures around age 63.
If you are able to lower your spending rate from its current level of around $80k to $60k, and funnel the unspent bucks into savings, I'd guess that you can get there by 57 or 58. If you are willing to engage in geoarbitrage and/or plan to buy a cheaper/downsized/less desirably located home, you can add that home equity to your 'stash' and it will increase the likelihood of hitting your targets in your preferred timeframe.

The back-of-the-envelope calculations above assume SS at 67 of $25k and mortgage P&I payments ending at the same point, saving $30k/yr.

Some of the easier ways to save decent sized chunks of dough:  refi the mortgage, get a cheap phone plan, reduce car spending.

kimura

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2021, 06:20:36 PM »
Thanks for the reply.
Our only car payment is going to be aggressively chipped away and we just refinanced the house using my VA loan and are saving about $400 monthly from that. Spending habits are going to need a total makeover. Relocating isn't going to happen until after the kids graduate at the earliest. We love our schools here for the kids and unfortunately my son is struggling from the last move and changing schools. I can definitely see where there is some low hanging fruit to pick now that my eyes are open. Im embarrassed and ashamed of missing out on the much better situation we could be in if I/we had wised up sooner. I hate this saying but "it is what it is". I just started reading Your Money Or Your Life to help too. Im excited to get started. One of the good things I have going is I don't hate my job.

Metalcat

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2021, 06:25:15 PM »
Most people go through the beating themselves up phase in the early stages. Try not to take it too seriously, it does nothing for you. Focus on knowing what you want from your life now that you are being more proactive.

kimura

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2021, 06:37:42 PM »
Most people go through the beating themselves up phase in the early stages. Try not to take it too seriously, it does nothing for you. Focus on knowing what you want from your life now that you are being more proactive.

Yea Im doing that now. Its hard sucking up my pride and throwing personal information out there. I figure only good positive change can come of it though so its worth it. I've already read so many great posts and am amazed on how helpful this community is.

10SNE1

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2021, 08:00:36 PM »
It's not too late to plan your retirement. Get rid of that car loan asap, build up some savings, cut expenses like crazy (stop eating out, control that food budget big time, and sell a bunch of stuff- it's all just stuff, right?) and funnel a ton of savings toward retirement and investing. Someone mentioned the shockingly simple math article - that one really makes it so easy to understand how much you need to save and how long it's going to take you to achieve your goals. Write down your plan and take charge!

ericrugiero

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2021, 06:43:44 AM »
You don't say what your expenses are, but with no cash, it sounds like all available money goes out the door. Part of controlling that is tracking expenses. Another step can be increasing savings by using the old standby tricks: paying yourself first, signing up for automatic annual increases in 401k contributions, putting bonuses and raises towards savings. That helps to avoid lifestyle creep, which I think may be happening, unless you started out making $120k/year.

This is a big one.  Pay yourself first with automatic contributions to 401K, IRA, savings account for emergency fund (not the normal one you spend out of) etc.  This limits how much cash you see in your normal checking account which is easy to just spend.  When you get a bonus or other source of extra cash, get it out of your main bank account before it is spent.  If you do this AND are committed to living within your means (not running up credit cards) you will artificially limit your available cash flow and increase your savings. 

NumberJohnny5

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2021, 07:09:12 AM »
So...no facepunches anymore? That's off-limits apparently? Ok...

Your net worth is about at the low end of what we're planning on retiring on. With one kid still living with us (and possibly two more trying to hang on, but they'll be over 18 so...). I figure all we need to do is hop down to Mexico for a few years, live on about a 2% withdrawal rate, and let the funds continue to grow.

I have several backup plans. #1 is the fact that 2% is half of 4%. So if stock markets fell by 50% the day after...well now we're at the "safe" withdrawal rate of 4%. No biggie. #2 is the fact that social security still exists. We don't have to make it 25 or even 20 years before reinforcements arrive. #3 is that my wife will be ready to hop back into the workforce on at least a temporary basis if needed. She's been a travel nurse before, so if stock markets really did drop by 50% the day after retirement, she'd get a decent paying contract and sock all the money away that was possible. #4 is that we have dual citizenship so if things go to extreme crap, we have somewhere we can go that has a decent safety net plus free medical. True, this last one probably doesn't apply to you, but you have stuff going for you that we don't; make the most of it!

Up the 401k to the actual max. That's at least $19,500 if your company doesn't allow after-tax contributions (not the same as Roth, that's a different thing). If your company DOES allow after-tax contributions, then your max is $58,000 INCLUDING company contributions (have to leave enough room for company contribution; if you max out early they can't put any more in, even a true-up). We're trying to max that out this year, probably won't (we're looking at an income over $85k/yr, so things are a bit tighter for us than you), but we can still try.

Get rid of the car payment if it's more than a few percent interest. If we're talking a 0% interest rate or similar...then I personally wouldn't worry about that.

Make sure spouse is on board, else your numbers may drop by 50% or more.

Nutty

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2021, 07:15:26 AM »
I'm in a similar situation and at 51.  Biggest hurdle that I'm facing is getting DW on board. 

One big issue for me was getting the kids through college debt free.  They are (mostly) in a good spot and I've been talking (preaching, maybe) to them about controlling expenses.  My question to you, since you are considering FIRE, what about the kids' colleges?  They are free to go to trade school, fund their own, but if you step up, that will need to be considered and agreed upon with the wife.  It ain't cheap and at your income level, the state will not subsidize their education until they are independent (older or married).  I also don't think college is required depending on what they want to be when they grow up.

Crunching my numbers, I can FIRE at 57 at the $40,000 or stay to 62 and maintain current income (with the kids gone, savings took off).  I encourage you to max the 401K or other tax advantaged vehicle.

Good luck on your journey!

10SNE1

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2021, 07:26:17 AM »
While funding college is important, retirement security is way more important.

DeskJockey2028

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2021, 07:34:38 AM »
You're a year younger than I am and have more saved than I do.

I'm on track to retire by 55-56, and you're making a bit more than my wife and I do combined, so I'd say it's entirely possible for you to clock in for the last time a good 8-10 years before the standard retirement age!

I agree with 10SNE1 - you can convince institutions to give out loans to go to college, you can't convince them to give out loans to retire.

Check out your Social Security standings at ssa.gov - they've got a handy calculator there. I'd highly recommend looking at taking SS at 62 rather than 65 or 67. Maybe you won't do that, but at least look at it. Also remember that your spouse can claim 1/2 of what you'd be earning through Social Security in most cases.

Now, get some cash saved up for an emergency fund, get that car paid off and start cranking down your expenses and cranking up your investments. It took me about a year to really get that stuff sorted out. Changing your lifestyle after several decades can be hard!

kimura

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2021, 07:45:03 AM »
Good stuff here! Thank you. I’ll being doing a case study soon and it will have the details.

What’s DW? I keep seeing it but tacking my brain what it means. Haha!

College. I knew it would be brought up. We are not planning on saving for college. At least not at this point. Still trying to sort through all this.

dandarc

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2021, 07:53:20 AM »
"Da Wife" - I don't know what the D actually stands for on the interwebs but I personally hear it in my head sounding like the old SNL Da Bears skit.

Omy

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2021, 07:56:37 AM »
Good to hear you are doing a case study. To get the most out of it, be brutally honest and detailed with your numbers and prepare to get "face-punched". The people on this forum are direct and helpful if you are able to accept criticism and guidance.

kimura

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2021, 08:10:15 AM »
Da Wife. Interesting.

I’m ok with face punches. I know it’s all in good intent. I’m happy to have found this place. Such a great resource for finances.


Another question. What budget apps do you all prefer?

I downloaded YNAB but I’m not sure that’s the one for me. Mainly because I haven’t figured it out and you gotta pay for it. I was going to try Mint and check that out.

Omy

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2021, 08:14:54 AM »
Or "Dear Wife."

We are old school and cheap and use excel for everthing.

Metalcat

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2021, 08:25:05 AM »
Da Wife. Interesting.

I’m ok with face punches. I know it’s all in good intent. I’m happy to have found this place. Such a great resource for finances.


Another question. What budget apps do you all prefer?

I downloaded YNAB but I’m not sure that’s the one for me. Mainly because I haven’t figured it out and you gotta pay for it. I was going to try Mint and check that out.

Well, first determine if you are looking to track or looking to budget. A lot of us don't bother with budgeting, but others swear by it, so you will need to figure out what your needs are. Tracking is critical information gathering for understanding your spending, budgeting is a tool to help manage future spending, but like any tool, it works better or worse for different people.

CodingHare

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2021, 08:26:06 AM »
I no longer use budget apps myself.  I use the "Pay yourself first" system.  So I max the 401k, ROTH IRA, and HSA accounts every month straight from my paycheck.  I never see that money in checking so I'm never tempted to spend it.  I also an have additional money that goes into my emergency fund if that ever dips below what I'm comfortable with or into a personal brokerage.

Everything else I can spend as needed.  This works out for me because I'm pretty naturally frugal and I did a big audit on where I was spending my money a few years ago.  When I was doing that audit, I used Mint.  It's a bad budgeting app because it's all after the fact, but it's a great inspection app since it is seamlessly tied into your credit cards.

If you haven't seen it, r/personalfinance has a great flowchart on how you should organize your money when you are trying to get everything in order: https://i.imgur.com/lSoUQr2.png

And their wiki with more detail in the steps: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/commontopics

LifeHappens

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2021, 08:33:23 AM »
Welcome to the forum! You seem to be in the "regret" phase of Mustachianism. Most of us go through it. Next you may start on the "over zealous expense cutter" phase. Be sure you're not so over zealous you end up divorced ;)

This thread offers some guidance on getting your spouse interested in FIRE:
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/how-to-convert-your-so-to-mmm-in-50-awesome-steps/

kimura

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2021, 08:36:39 AM »
I’m definitely gonna have to read that thread and do some convincing of the DW.

robartsd

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2021, 09:10:07 AM »
Up the 401k to the actual max. That's at least $19,500 if your company doesn't allow after-tax contributions (not the same as Roth, that's a different thing). If your company DOES allow after-tax contributions, then your max is $58,000 INCLUDING company contributions (have to leave enough room for company contribution; if you max out early they can't put any more in, even a true-up). We're trying to max that out this year, probably won't (we're looking at an income over $85k/yr, so things are a bit tighter for us than you), but we can still try.
I'm not sure if I would use after-tax contribution space myself unless I had a mega-backdoor Roth path. Don't earnings on after-tax contributions come out as ordinary income. If you invest in taxable instead, most of the earnings come out at LTCG. Of course the flip side is that sometimes you can't avoid realizing earnings in the taxable account, but you can avoid realizing earnings from 401k (until you reach the age where RMDs apply).

Around here you'll see OMY (one more year meaning you CAN retire now but plan to work one more year). SWAMI - which stands for something but is basicly someone who reaches FI but loves their job and plans to work forever.
Most often OMY it is in the context of OMY syndrome: the state of having enough invested to be FI, working a job you dislike, and perpetually thinking you'll work just one more year because you're afraid to give up the employment income and depend on the investment income.

SWAMI: Satisfied Working Advanced Mustachian Individual.

NumberJohnny5

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2021, 09:48:15 AM »
Up the 401k to the actual max. That's at least $19,500 if your company doesn't allow after-tax contributions (not the same as Roth, that's a different thing). If your company DOES allow after-tax contributions, then your max is $58,000 INCLUDING company contributions (have to leave enough room for company contribution; if you max out early they can't put any more in, even a true-up). We're trying to max that out this year, probably won't (we're looking at an income over $85k/yr, so things are a bit tighter for us than you), but we can still try.
I'm not sure if I would use after-tax contribution space myself unless I had a mega-backdoor Roth path. Don't earnings on after-tax contributions come out as ordinary income. If you invest in taxable instead, most of the earnings come out at LTCG. Of course the flip side is that sometimes you can't avoid realizing earnings in the taxable account, but you can avoid realizing earnings from 401k (until you reach the age where RMDs apply).

Honestly, not sure. Just recently found out wife's 403b has the mega backdoor Roth option. Popped in $50 in the last paycheck to test and yup, it shows the $50 being put in, then $50 taken out, then $50 in the Roth.

My posts can get pretty long so I try to trim down best I can. Could have gone on and on about how everyone has a different definition of "maxing out the 401k" (maxing out the employer match? maxing out the $19,500 pre-tax? maxing out the whole $58k?). When I read anonymous internet advice I always double-check, ask questions if needed, etc. instead of blindly following it. Hopefully I gave the OP some info that can be used in their research. Max out that $19,500, that's easy! Once that's done and they can contribute more, check with HR if there's some kind of "after-tax" contribution that's in addition to the $19,500 (if your employer has a Roth 401k, HR may think you are referring to that when you say "contribution to the 401 after-tax"...a Roth 401k shares the same $19,500 bucket as the pre-tax; after-tax is completely outside that bucket but still within the $58k 401k limit). Anyways...

Another piece of advice for the OP. Open an IRA. With your income, I'd probably look into the traditional IRA, BUT I would open a Roth as well for two reasons. #1, there is a 5-year waiting period for a Roth that applies for various things. I won't get into details, but the sooner you open one the sooner that 5 year countdown can start. By the time it's even a concern, ten years will have passed and it won't matter (except for the five year waiting period to be eligible to withdraw a rollover, but that's for another topic). #2, I personally think it serves as a good emergency fund. You can withdraw contributions for ANY reason without penalty. Put in $12k, you can take out $12k. You only (potentially) get hit with penalties if you withdraw more than the contribution amount. So, you don't have much cash on hand in case of an emergency. Fully fund your and your spouse's Roth IRA for last year (you have until April 15 to contribute to an IRA for the prior tax year). If your MAGI is under $196k for both you and your spouse, you can fully max out your IRAs at $6k each. Pop in $6k for you and $6k for your spouse, that's a $12k emergency fund (it can go up or down, so I'd still have a thousand or so in a checking account just in case...but in a real emergency you can withdraw from the Roth). Again, this is for a true emergency, not a "oh crap the car needs tires, who could have ever seen that coming?" No, it's for "I lost my job, kid ended up in the ER for a broken bone, spouse has something medical going on that's still being diagnosed, AND the car needs two new tires because a deer decided to commit seppuku." Note that if you're using an IRA as an emergency fund, it's the Roth you want to touch in an actual emergency, not a Traditional. Traditional IRA has penalties on the entire amount withdrawn unless it's for an exempt reason; Roth can have the contributions withdrawn at any time for any reason without penalty; it's the earnings that can't be withdrawn unless it's for an exempt reason.

kimura

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2021, 10:01:13 AM »
Thank you for that detailed reply!

I do believe my employer offers after tax contributions. At least its an option I can choose a percentage to contribute to on my account. I really like the idea of using the Roth IRA for an emergency fund. Im going to look into that. It appeals to me because the money will be invested and it will take more effort to get into my hands than a separate checking account. Excellent strategy.

robartsd

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2021, 10:21:15 AM »
Could have gone on and on about how everyone has a different definition of "maxing out the 401k" (maxing out the employer match? maxing out the $19,500 pre-tax? maxing out the whole $58k?). When I read anonymous internet advice I always double-check, ask questions if needed, etc. instead of blindly following it. Hopefully I gave the OP some info that can be used in their research. Max out that $19,500, that's easy! Once that's done and they can contribute more, check with HR if there's some kind of "after-tax" contribution that's in addition to the $19,500 (if your employer has a Roth 401k, HR may think you are referring to that when you say "contribution to the 401 after-tax"...a Roth 401k shares the same $19,500 bucket as the pre-tax; after-tax is completely outside that bucket but still within the $58k 401k limit). Anyways...
Good point. I usually assume it is the $19,500 limit that is meant. I certainly wouldn't think "max" means minimum to get the full employer match is meant on these forums.

I personally think it serves as a good emergency fund.
I completely agree with the idea using Roth IRA as emergency fund if you aren't saving enough to max out all tax advantaged space already.

ericrugiero

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2021, 11:46:03 AM »
I also assume that "max 401K" means up to the $19,500 limit.  I wouldn't put anything in after tax 401K unless there is the option to roll it to Roth immediately.  I'm planning to max my (traditional) 401K this year as well as do after tax rolled to Roth 401K.  That will probably end up around $12-15K.  If I couldn't roll it to Roth and get the tax benefits I would just put it in a taxable investment account where it's more flexible. 

I do view my Roth IRA as a backup emergency fund/college fund but I hope to never use it for that.  That would use up valuable tax advantaged space. 

fat-johnny

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2021, 11:53:00 AM »
The thing that stands out to me is that OP says he "brings home" (nets) $120k, sometimes more.....yet has ZERO cash.  I don't know all the details, but that sounds like a spendypants lifestyle to me.  I'd say a full-blown case-study post is in order.

FJ

dandarc

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2021, 12:10:58 PM »
The thing that stands out to me is that OP says he "brings home" (nets) $120k, sometimes more.....yet has ZERO cash.  I don't know all the details, but that sounds like a spendypants lifestyle to me.  I'd say a full-blown case-study post is in order.

FJ
$410K in retirement plus $200K in home equity - maybe not full-blown spendypants lifestyle. OP has promised a case study.

kimura

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2021, 12:38:00 PM »
Full on spendy pants here. I know I make decent money and have no cash to show for it. That's what led me here. Changes have begun. Roth IRA opened to start an emergency fund. Research begun. Wrapping my head around completing a case study for full on face punches. My wife started working again a couple months ago and 120k take home is a rough estimate. More to follow.

kimura

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2021, 12:53:32 PM »
ROTH IRA Question.

I opened a Vanguard ROTH IRA account and want to put in the $3000 minimum to buy into VTSAX. If I do this I can withdraw the 3K if needed in case of an emergency correct?

I just cant withdraw any gains without penalty. I just want to make sure I don't lock my money up in case its actually needed for some unforeseen event. Thanks for any clarification

dandarc

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2021, 12:58:09 PM »
Yes that is correct. Keep track of all your contributions over the years so you know what you can withdraw in a pinch.

terran

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2021, 01:00:46 PM »
ROTH IRA Question.

I opened a Vanguard ROTH IRA account and want to put in the $3000 minimum to buy into VTSAX. If I do this I can withdraw the 3K if needed in case of an emergency correct?

I just cant withdraw any gains without penalty. I just want to make sure I don't lock my money up in case its actually needed for some unforeseen event. Thanks for any clarification

Yes, and this is a good option if you can't otherwise afford to both max out all available retirement accounts and fund an emergency fund. See https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Roth_IRA_as_an_emergency_fund -- ideally you won't withdraw since you can't put it back in (well, can put it back once a year if you do it within 60 days and treat it as a rollover), so if/when you can afford to max retirement accounts and fund an emergency fund you should.

kimura

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2021, 01:15:56 PM »
Thanks!
I looked at the case study in that link. I gotta study that to fully understand as its a bit confusing from just a quick glimpse. I should have paid attention in math.

nessa

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2021, 01:18:04 PM »
I see you've gotten reassurance, but in my case I'm a year older, have half the annual income (no kids, own home), and "if everything goes well" am planning to Recreationally Employ myself when I turn 55. So it's definitely possible!

Welcome and good travels!

NumberJohnny5

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2021, 01:48:56 PM »
ROTH IRA Question.

I opened a Vanguard ROTH IRA account and want to put in the $3000 minimum to buy into VTSAX. If I do this I can withdraw the 3K if needed in case of an emergency correct?

I just cant withdraw any gains without penalty. I just want to make sure I don't lock my money up in case its actually needed for some unforeseen event. Thanks for any clarification

Yes, with one caveat...you have at least $3k in your Roth IRA. If you put in $3k today, it's possible that the stock market will drop, and tomorrow you may have $2k. This is why I said I like the idea of using it as a TRUE emergency fund, not as a "stuff happens that I should have been prepared for" fund.

kimura

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2021, 01:55:19 PM »
Thanks that makes sense.

reeshau

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2021, 01:56:40 PM »
ROTH IRA Question.

I opened a Vanguard ROTH IRA account and want to put in the $3000 minimum to buy into VTSAX. If I do this I can withdraw the 3K if needed in case of an emergency correct?

I just cant withdraw any gains without penalty. I just want to make sure I don't lock my money up in case its actually needed for some unforeseen event. Thanks for any clarification

Just to walk this all the way through, since you are asking basic questions.  Once you take it out, you cannot put it back in, either.  So if you took out the $3,000 this year, you would only be able to contribute another $3,000, which would mean you have reached the maximum $6,000 in contributions this year.  Roth contributions are a powerful tool, but that's the downside.

If you took it out next year, you still can't put it back, but it does not impact that year's contribution limits: you can contribute $6k (assuming it doesn't get adjusted up) no matter what you do with past year's contributions.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 01:58:56 PM by reeshau »

kimura

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2021, 02:25:47 PM »
Thanks for the extra info. Definitely good to know. Ideally it just sits in there and grows. If I removed any portion it would definitely qualify as an emergency and not being able to pay it back the rest of the year would be worth the risk.

NumberJohnny5

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #46 on: March 09, 2021, 02:26:42 PM »
Just to walk this all the way through, since you are asking basic questions.  Once you take it out, you cannot put it back in, either.  So if you took out the $3,000 this year, you would only be able to contribute another $3,000, which would mean you have reached the maximum $6,000 in contributions this year.  Roth contributions are a powerful tool, but that's the downside.

If you took it out next year, you still can't put it back, but it does not impact that year's contribution limits: you can contribute $6k (assuming it doesn't get adjusted up) no matter what you do with past year's contributions.

I don't think that's quite correct. While I haven't actually run into this, it's my understanding that if you, for example, contributed $3k for 2021, then withdrew $3k, you can still deposit $6k by April 15 of next year.

Here's what I believe is a somewhat reputable site that backs that up. Pertinent blurb from https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/040714/how-use-your-roth-ira-emergency-fund.asp :

"If you withdraw contributions made during the current tax year, you have until the end of that tax deadline (April 15 of the following year) to redeposit the money in your Roth IRA."

If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct.

Plus you have 60 days to rollover from one IRA to another once every rolling 12 months. You can even rollover from one IRA back to the same IRA. So if you withdrew $100k and 59 days later put $100k back into the IRA, it's like it never happened. Again, this can only be done once every twelve months, so definitely look into the rules anytime you withdraw funds from an IRA.

kimura

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #47 on: March 09, 2021, 02:40:04 PM »
Thats some advanced information and hopefully in the not to distant future I can start looking at advantages like that. Right now I dont have the problem of maxing out all these contributions.

reeshau

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #48 on: March 09, 2021, 03:35:08 PM »
Just to walk this all the way through, since you are asking basic questions.  Once you take it out, you cannot put it back in, either.  So if you took out the $3,000 this year, you would only be able to contribute another $3,000, which would mean you have reached the maximum $6,000 in contributions this year.  Roth contributions are a powerful tool, but that's the downside.

If you took it out next year, you still can't put it back, but it does not impact that year's contribution limits: you can contribute $6k (assuming it doesn't get adjusted up) no matter what you do with past year's contributions.

I don't think that's quite correct. While I haven't actually run into this, it's my understanding that if you, for example, contributed $3k for 2021, then withdrew $3k, you can still deposit $6k by April 15 of next year.

Here's what I believe is a somewhat reputable site that backs that up. Pertinent blurb from https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/040714/how-use-your-roth-ira-emergency-fund.asp :

"If you withdraw contributions made during the current tax year, you have until the end of that tax deadline (April 15 of the following year) to redeposit the money in your Roth IRA."

If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct.

Plus you have 60 days to rollover from one IRA to another once every rolling 12 months. You can even rollover from one IRA back to the same IRA. So if you withdrew $100k and 59 days later put $100k back into the IRA, it's like it never happened. Again, this can only be done once every twelve months, so definitely look into the rules anytime you withdraw funds from an IRA.

I stand corrected.

BicycleB

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Re: Is it even possible at my age?
« Reply #49 on: March 09, 2021, 06:57:30 PM »
@kimura, as others have said, yes possible. (You have great people in this thread. Welcome to the forum!)

Keep moving forward. Best wishes re your spouse - hopefully relationships grow stronger through this process. 50 ways thread is great but like most aspects of this, developing your own knowledge and behavior is the starting point, the rest takes time. You can do this.