Author Topic: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?  (Read 16840 times)

CopperTex

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Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« on: January 25, 2015, 06:13:47 PM »
I make really good money in a dying profession (photography). I feel my days may be numbered because of the improvements in technology, extremely low barrier to entry, and various other reasons the industry is tanking. I have been saving as much as possible for the past few years and have acquired a pretty good nest egg (around $650k so far). I really don't have any desire to retire and would love to do what I do for as long as I'm able BUT I would hate to start over in a new career/business, go back to school, etc. I have zero desire to do anything else if I had to.  I would much rather be financially independent than have to recreate the level of income I'm at currently.

Does anyone have any experience working in an industry that has completely gone under? Or seeking financial independence just to capture the earnings of a career you feel may not last?

Daisy

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2015, 06:23:54 PM »
Kind of...in that I work in software which is ever-changing, have no interest to update my skills, and my company is going through hard times. I would still want to FIRE anyways, but I know if I get let go it will be:

a) Hard to find another job in my geographical area due to the dearth of opportunities
b) Hard to find another job in my field due to my age, mid 40s, when there are a ton of young and eager software gurus graduating college every year
c) Hard to find another job in my field as I have no interest in brushing up my skills to continue in a field I no longer want to be in

I know whatever else I do, if I do anything else earning money, will not earn me anything close to what I'm earning now. Hence the FIRE urgency.

penguins4everyone!

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2015, 06:49:35 PM »
Yes.  DH currently at a lovely salary, for a start-up company that makes what in my opinion on is kind of a ridiculous product- basically what amounts to an extremely cleverly engineered, expensive toy for spoiled 12 y/o boys.  I know the company is doing well but it's not like this is an essential product for the well being of humanity.  We are quite new to this salary level and at some point might get used to his earning potential being this good, but in the mean time all I can think is "THIS IS NOT REAL LIFE" and we are not to get used to this income level in any way shape or form. 

Growing up I watched my dad struggle as his skills became outdated over time (software), and we were always fine, but it scared me to death.

I would love for us to build up enough of a 'stach that if we decided to switch to lower paying jobs (voluntarily or not), we would still be able to maintain our lifestyle and watch our investments grow.   

2527

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2015, 06:58:11 PM »
Sort of.  I retired from the Air Force as a lieutenant colonel, at the age of 43.  At our transition seminar, the facilitator made the comment that most people never again make as much as they did on active duty. 

That has certainly been the case for me.  I didn't take the transition planning seriously, and chose to live in my hometown and work things out from there, and I also retired into the worst economy since the Great Depression.  I've had some frustrating years.  The job I have now, which is the best of the three since retirement, and the one I will have for the long haul, plus my pension is still a little less than I made on active duty, and still much less when you factor all the taxes, different costs of living, etc. 

But it's OK because my job is much less stressful than my last few years on active duty, and I went into this transition very well resourced.

innerscorecard

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2015, 08:53:23 PM »
I am.

I don't want to be constantly networking (consciously and subconsciously) and being careerist. Some people are good at that. I'm terrible at it. I tried becoming good at it, but it caused me serious stress and anxiety.

Some people may say that it's a necessary life skill. It is. But I renounce the kind of life where that's necessary. It's just not me.

phillyvalue

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2015, 09:50:11 PM »
I think this is the crux of it for me. It'd be nice to retire earlier than 65, but for the most part I like the work I'm doing (hope it stays that way) and I don't see extreme early retirement as a goal. But as someone starting off in finance, I know I will never have a "regular" job in terms of hours and pay. Thus the optionality and peace of mind that comes from FI is attractive.

WYOGO

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2015, 05:02:16 AM »
Yes...

But at an earlier point along the continuum. This is no longer an issue and now is as automatic as eating and sleeping...

I have said this before here and believe it very strongly: There are few things that will facilitate as creative and passionate a pursuit of financial independence as will imminent threats to one's livelihood...
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 05:05:40 AM by WYOGO »

morning owl

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2015, 06:07:58 AM »
I am.

I don't want to be constantly networking (consciously and subconsciously) and being careerist. Some people are good at that. I'm terrible at it. I tried becoming good at it, but it caused me serious stress and anxiety.

Some people may say that it's a necessary life skill. It is. But I renounce the kind of life where that's necessary. It's just not me.

+1 on this. I never minded my actual job, but I'm extremely introverted so it's hard for me to be around people all day. Most of my work environments are quite social, and I often felt out of place. The networking involved in getting ahead used to be ok for me in my 20s because I was just so enthusiastic about the field, but the enthusiasm waned in my 30s. Now I just want to work from home in a relaxed pace, and socialize with people (friends) by choice rather than because I HAVE to.

So I guess the job instability was somewhat self-induced :) but there is more to it, as it's quite a young industry to begin with, and I felt somewhat squeezed out. The unwillingness to network probably has something to do with this, though.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 06:14:17 AM by morning owl »

Gray Matter

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2015, 06:33:44 AM »
We are, sort of.  I wouldn't say we're in unstable fields, but we do have relatively high incomes (or at least I did before I moved to the non-profit world) that might be hard to replace.  I don't want to have to worry about getting laid off or becoming disabled and being desperate, having to move away from our community for work, etc.  So the faster we get to "we'll be OK no matter what happens" (short of a complete economy/market meltdown), the better I feel.

MayDay

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2015, 06:36:50 AM »
I currently stay at home, but my H is an engineer.  He hasn't experienced it yet but technical fields in general sometimes lead to obsolete workers in their 50's/60's.  H will turn 40 this spring and I think we better try to hit FI by 50 (which we are right on track for).

 Either way we will certainly at this point be able to afford one or both of us taking much lower paying jobs should the need arise.  We have enough saved that we can make enough to just get by and let the retirement accounts grow for 20 years.

Between us we experienced I think 5 lay offs during the recession, which has fueled the desire.  I'm talking come in to work to be informed that the entire company is folding effective today. 

dcheesi

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2015, 06:56:06 AM »
Yep. I'm in software as well, and while my particular niche doesn't change skill sets as rapidly as some, there's also a smaller pool of businesses in need of what I do. Plus I've seen what happens to more "senior" folks once the budget cuts get deep enough*, and I I've seen what it's like to struggle for work in your fifties. I'm shooting for FI by 50 so that I don't have to deal with that.

(* The first round of layoffs usually involves cutting out the deadwood, plus contractors and such. But as the cuts get deeper, it's the more highly paid senior folks who are cut first, since they cost more and will probably have fewer years left with the company anyway)

humblefi

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2015, 08:21:07 AM »
Or seeking financial independence just to capture the earnings of a career you feel may not last?

Definitely. There are so many variables that can destabilize the market and affect jobs right now that I just want to remove all dependencies on any job I have.
In the last year, I have seen job cuts in my company because of Govt shutdown, Ukraine, China issues, Airline crashes, Oil prices falling, Mgmt rewarding themselves with a big fat bonus amid sales reductions, jobs being outsourced, mgmt changes, etc etc.... There seems to be no end to the factors that can affect our jobs...unless of course you are a super brilliant person at the top of the food chain. Reminds me of NFL free agency..there is always a cheaper option available to replace you :-)

So, definitely a big reason to generate alternate income streams, reach FI and live life for a change! Go FI!

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2015, 08:32:21 AM »
Yes - I can easily be replaced by someone younger and earning less money.

ShortInSeattle

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2015, 11:24:48 AM »
I believe that *all* jobs are somewhat unstable.

So it's a factor.

nereo

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2015, 11:45:22 AM »
job instability is one of several major reasons why I am seeking FI.

I love my job, but both me an SO are on 'soft-money' contracts in research fields.  Typically each contract lasts 6-24 months, and there's no telling whether it will be renewed at the end of each contract.  Since we typically work with government agencies, our jobs are particularly vulnerable to whatever the current budget and/or dominant political ideology  is at the moment.

We are racing towards FI so that it won't matter much when one or both of our contracts aren't renewed.

CopperTex - funny you mention being a photographer - I was heading down that road but was convinced to give it up because of all the things you mentioned (low barrier of entry, too many casual shooters willing to sell their images for almost no money, etc.)  I'm envious that you found a way to make it work - good for you!

Ready2Go

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2015, 11:52:38 AM »
I have been in software for 20+ years.  I regarded it as unstable even back in the day, and see it worse in the future for all but young stars.  I'm married, and our approach was always to bank 1 income.  Lot's of people thought I was crazy (even DH sometimes), but we've been FI for a long time as a result. 

CopperTex

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2015, 04:18:53 PM »
CopperTex - funny you mention being a photographer - I was heading down that road but was convinced to give it up because of all the things you mentioned (low barrier of entry, too many casual shooters willing to sell their images for almost no money, etc.)  I'm envious that you found a way to make it work - good for you!

Definitely stay away from the photography industry unless you are truly wanting to do it as a hobby. I made it work because I opened my business in 2004 before everyone and their cousin was a photographer so I was able to build up a loyal client base. I'm also very good at what I do :) But I do not envy anyone trying to enter the industry at this point.

Daisy

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2015, 08:30:36 PM »
I have been in software for 20+ years.  I regarded it as unstable even back in the day, and see it worse in the future for all but young stars.  I'm married, and our approach was always to bank 1 income.  Lot's of people thought I was crazy (even DH sometimes), but we've been FI for a long time as a result.

I was on the demotivational poster site for another post just now and saw this and it reminded me of this thread and those of us "geezers" in technical fields. At some point, you just don't want to adapt any more, especially if you weren't all that into your field to begin with.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 08:33:41 PM by Daisy »

pachnik

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2015, 08:54:12 PM »
Definitely yes. 

I am a geezer in a non-technical field but I think in any field, the older you get, the harder it is to get a job. 

mm1970

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2015, 09:29:06 PM »
I currently stay at home, but my H is an engineer.  He hasn't experienced it yet but technical fields in general sometimes lead to obsolete workers in their 50's/60's.  H will turn 40 this spring and I think we better try to hit FI by 50 (which we are right on track for).

 Either way we will certainly at this point be able to afford one or both of us taking much lower paying jobs should the need arise.  We have enough saved that we can make enough to just get by and let the retirement accounts grow for 20 years.

Between us we experienced I think 5 lay offs during the recession, which has fueled the desire.  I'm talking come in to work to be informed that the entire company is folding effective today.
Yes, this.

I'm an engineer, and I'm in my mid 40's, as is my husband.  His job is what I'd consider fairly stable. Mostly government contracts, signal processing, and he's really good at it.  AND he's at a small employee owned company, so as long as they are producing, he will be employed.

Me? Not so much. I'm at a startup.  We are in a precarious position.  I've seen many engineers and managers get downsized in their 50's and 60's. I find that some of them do well and keep working because of their abilities and skill sets.  And some, that weren't so good in the first place, don't do as well.  It's a small town too, so that's a factor.

Those who adapt do well, but they have to be willing to do a lateral or slightly down-step move, and take pay cuts.

I have a former coworker who is my age who has been mostly unemployed since the layoff 1.5 years ago, and it has caused a major funk.  Without a degree, even with 20+ years of engineering experience, getting a job is difficult.  I'm not sure how I can help except to give a good reference.  Fact of the matter is, subtract 15 years from our age and you have a 30-year old with a degree who can do the same job (not as well, but probably good enough), for less money.

MrsCoolCat

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2015, 10:36:45 PM »
I make really good money in a dying profession (photography). I feel my days may be numbered because of the improvements in technology, extremely low barrier to entry, and various other reasons the industry is tanking. I have been saving as much as possible for the past few years and have acquired a pretty good nest egg (around $650k so far). I really don't have any desire to retire and would love to do what I do for as long as I'm able BUT I would hate to start over in a new career/business, go back to school, etc. I have zero desire to do anything else if I had to.  I would much rather be financially independent than have to recreate the level of income I'm at currently.

Does anyone have any experience working in an industry that has completely gone under? Or seeking financial independence just to capture the earnings of a career you feel may not last?

I read a part of Rich Women and it reminded me of the below advice.
What drives you is your love for photography not your fear of not being able to do it (because it's unstable).
In obtaining FI focus on what drives you rather than your fears.
It's all about perspective and I feel that the perspective of passion will help you more and make you happier than the antagonist of fear.
In other words I want to be FI so that I can photograph more, whenever, wherever, etc! I love it!
Focus more on that than your fears because in a way they are one and the same.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 10:38:38 PM by MrsCoolCat »

Mr. Frugalwoods

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2015, 08:14:45 AM »
Definitely part of my calculus.  I'm also in software engineering, though I mostly manage others these days.  The field moves so fast, and has so much institutional ageism built into the culture, I feel like I have to expect to not have a job in my 50s.

And if that's the case, why not go ahead and decamp in my thirties :-) !

JetBlast

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2015, 01:11:53 PM »
It's certainly part of the reason I'm interested in quickly achieving FI. My ability to keep my job is dependent on keeping my medical certificate, and while Loss of Medical insurance exists, it won't pay enough for FI. I could get by a few years while training for something else.

The other concern is drones. There are a lot of aerospace engineers out there trying to put me out of a job. A lot of them seem to think that in 20 years or so they might do it.

Mika M

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2015, 01:37:17 PM »
Mos def ;)

My husband and I are both government contractors and on the edge of our seats once a year whenever our positions are up for renewal as our jobs depend on the federal government's mood for spending or saving. Sometimes we don't get the news until the last minute.

Over the past year we've reigned in our average-American-ridiculously-mindless-spending A LOT so that certainly goes a long way in easing the yearly anxiety. We don't hate our jobs but the benefits of financial indepence are multfold especially when it comes to worrying about job security (let alone more free time to spend with the kiddo, or to spend on more shamtastic pursuits)...

lexie2000

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2015, 04:29:56 PM »
We too worked for a government contractor in the aerospace business.  Fear of possible job loss (not due to obsolescence, but due to layoff)  was at the forefront of our desire to become as FI as possible even though we were young (mid-20s). 

Dr. Doom

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2015, 05:46:45 PM »
Kind of...in that I work in software which is ever-changing, have no interest to update my skills, and my company is going through hard times. I would still want to FIRE anyways, but I know if I get let go it will be:
...

This describes a good chunk of my urge to FIRE as well. If it makes you feel any better, practically everyone in software or technology has these underlying feelings of exhaustion and anxiety pinned to the fact that there's too much to learn in an ever-changing field.  Every 3-4years, you look around, and so much is different:  New models, new APIs, new hardware and software and tools, evolved consumer expectations, updated integration points, new ways of working.  At the same time you're learning all of this new stuff, you need to keep a large portion of the old junk in your head too, because you probably still need to support it -- or some of the new stuff has been built on top of (embedded) on the original tech.  If you aren't 110% dedicated geek, this is going to get old at some point.

Younger people are learning the new stuff as their initial area of knowledge acquisition and frequently wind up being more fluid when deploying their skills.  So the perception by many employers is:  Let's not hire anyone over 45 if possible, because we'll get less out of them: That there is your potential job instability.

I'd rather have control over my finances (and therefore my life) than trust my fate to maintaining employment at, say, age 55 when mainframe functions have been fully converted to running on the iPadServer (Class 4 series)  and I've got to learn RapidIOS++ to develop and support that sucker and its billion integration points into every citizen's iBrainChip and oh, btw, my competition is a swarm of single twenty somethings who have all been coding IOS since Montessori at age 3.

Daisy

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2015, 06:39:20 PM »
Kind of...in that I work in software which is ever-changing, have no interest to update my skills, and my company is going through hard times. I would still want to FIRE anyways, but I know if I get let go it will be:
...

This describes a good chunk of my urge to FIRE as well. If it makes you feel any better, practically everyone in software or technology has these underlying feelings of exhaustion and anxiety pinned to the fact that there's too much to learn in an ever-changing field.  Every 3-4years, you look around, and so much is different:  New models, new APIs, new hardware and software and tools, evolved consumer expectations, updated integration points, new ways of working.  At the same time you're learning all of this new stuff, you need to keep a large portion of the old junk in your head too, because you probably still need to support it -- or some of the new stuff has been built on top of (embedded) on the original tech.  If you aren't 110% dedicated geek, this is going to get old at some point.

Younger people are learning the new stuff as their initial area of knowledge acquisition and frequently wind up being more fluid when deploying their skills.  So the perception by many employers is:  Let's not hire anyone over 45 if possible, because we'll get less out of them: That there is your potential job instability.

I'd rather have control over my finances (and therefore my life) than trust my fate to maintaining employment at, say, age 55 when mainframe functions have been fully converted to running on the iPadServer (Class 4 series)  and I've got to learn RapidIOS++ to develop and support that sucker and its billion integration points into every citizen's iBrainChip and oh, btw, my competition is a swarm of single twenty somethings who have all been coding IOS since Montessori at age 3.

So true!

Have you ever heard of the Imposter Syndrome? I read about it recently and I could totally relate to it. Somehow I've been able to do well in software at my particular company because I know the domain and more of the engineering parts of it, better than the software parts of it. I've never labelled myself a purely software programmer, as I don't live and breathe this stuff as others seem to do. How can one compete with these kinds of people?

I don't read up on this on my free time, and don't enjoy casual conversations about it as others do outside of work. I don't keep up with the latest.

According to some articles I've read, it may affect women more than men because women usually did not grow up doing this stuff on their "fun" time.
http://www.hanselman.com/blog/ImAPhonyAreYou.aspx
http://blog.hackbrightacademy.com/2014/01/how-to-not-suffer-from-imposter-syndrome/
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/programmers-suffering-bunch-syndromes-driving-121500894.html;_ylt=A0LEVz97MMxU_eEAJfxXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzczVuaTI5BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDI4Ml8x
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 06:41:47 PM by Daisy »

scottish

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2015, 08:06:14 PM »
Yup.   Another engineer working mostly in software devt here.

After almost 30 years I'm finally growing tired of it.     When this job runs out I think that's it.

And they all seem to run out one way or another.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 08:11:48 PM by scottishstash »

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2015, 10:31:29 PM »
I got this same feeling about 16 months ago (6 months after MMM baptism) and began contributing about $1.5k per month into my 401k. And getting ultra stingy with all expenses. Lo and behold, my company laid me off about 6 months after that. $hit happens. Glad I was somewhat prepared.

Dr. Doom

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2015, 05:00:32 PM »
Have you ever heard of the Imposter Syndrome?
Daisy, thanks for the links.  I read everything and even got a little bit sidetracked.  The good news is that I have a new book to read as a result:

Death march : the complete software developer's guide to surviving "mission impossible" projects

I hadn't heard of imposter syndrome until now, but yes, I have had periods where I feel like a bit of a phony.  It's usually while I'm ramping up on some new technology and the learning cycle has me feeling a bit lost and overwhelmed, which sometimes irrationally makes me question everything I know and doubt myself.  The phase does pass as I gain mastery over whatever I'm learning, and I think that the 'insecurity' I feel during these phases definitely drives me to learn as much as I can as quickly as I can -- like most Eng types, I can't stand feeling ig'nant. 

>>a purely software programmer, as I don't live and breathe this stuff as others seem to do. How can one compete with these kinds of people?

Aha!  You're talking about 'Real Programmers.'  These are the people that code for 80 hours a week and pretend that they would do it for free because dammit, it's just so goddamn fun why wouldn't you want to do it 24/7?  It's their entire identity: they live and breathe code.  And the answer to your question is:  To compete with them, you must become one.

I'm also sort of hiding from the constant expectation to upgrade skills and learn.  I knew at least 4 years ago that I was going to FIRE soon so I took a job where I could fall back on old knowledge and just do stuff I already knew how to do.

But I could only afford to do that -- where "that" means intentionally obsolete myself -- because: FI.  Otherwise I would not have allowed myself to slow down and get behind the tech curve. 

retired?

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2015, 08:52:02 PM »
I sought FI for its own sake, i.e. a pursuit independent of job stability.  However, while my own career has had various levels of stability, my field is somewhat stable.  I moved to other employers a couple times when job security was low.

If my field were unstable, then I would naturally up the intensity of pursuing FI.

Pooperman

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2015, 06:07:52 AM »
My field is stable for now, but there's a race for me to get to a certain level before it becomes unstable. I started out as a developer, became a business analyst (while still doing some dev work). Currently, this skillset makes me fairly valuable as both a salaried consultant (which I am now) and as a freelance consultant (which I can't be right now, but might be at some point). The race is to gain the project management skillset before the next big thing comes along in this field (CRM). I do Salesforce implementations. Right now, it's the biggest firm in the industry, not even close, not even a question. However, something better will (probably) come around at some point. When that happens, this sector will become less stable and I will need to learn the new CRM, be a project manager (applies everywhere), or be FI.

So, is job instability a reason for FI directly? Not yet, but it is indirectly responsible since I hate working for 'the man'.

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2015, 08:44:27 AM »
I kind of am too. Nationally and internationally there is sufficient work out there, but I have a particularly specialised field which means that if I needed to find another job it would mean at least moving (or locuming) more than 1,000km away. (I could go back to a more general field, but I would probably need to do some continuing ed.). I appreciate I may not always have the ability to move at the drop of a hat, hence I am aiming for FI. By the way, I love what I do and I intend to work at least another 25 years at it, all things going well.

SweetTPi

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2015, 08:26:25 PM »
Yes, but actually because of past job instability.  I got laid off during the recession, less than a year after I graduated school.  I don't want to have that feeling again, of not knowing when I'd find another job, any job, any location.  Having to move back in with family.  (Okay, I didn't have to move in with my parents, but my parents are awesome and it was the financially prudent move.  And yes, rent was paid, chores were done.)  Not only was I competing with all the other people who were let go, usually with more experience than I, but also all the new grads who had the advantages of the on-campus recruiting.  I remember so many of the entry level jobs were asking for something ridiculous like 5 years experience. 

I started a new job about 6 months ago, and I think I'm okay, but who knows.  I guess I feel like I could get let go of at any time, even though I've been assured you really have to f-it up to get fired.  I want to get to the position of FI as fast as possible, so that if I have to get by at a bare-bones level, I can.  Some events can leave lasting impressions.

Pooperman

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2015, 05:24:27 AM »
Yes, but actually because of past job instability.  I got laid off during the recession, less than a year after I graduated school.  I don't want to have that feeling again, of not knowing when I'd find another job, any job, any location.  Having to move back in with family.  (Okay, I didn't have to move in with my parents, but my parents are awesome and it was the financially prudent move.  And yes, rent was paid, chores were done.)  Not only was I competing with all the other people who were let go, usually with more experience than I, but also all the new grads who had the advantages of the on-campus recruiting.  I remember so many of the entry level jobs were asking for something ridiculous like 5 years experience

I started a new job about 6 months ago, and I think I'm okay, but who knows.  I guess I feel like I could get let go of at any time, even though I've been assured you really have to f-it up to get fired.  I want to get to the position of FI as fast as possible, so that if I have to get by at a bare-bones level, I can.  Some events can leave lasting impressions.
I graduated before the real jobs pickup, and ran into this as well. 5 years experience for "entry level" isn't entry level. Now with two years of experience, it won't be too bad if something did happen. As well, I've got the consulting option and the industry is a very shielded one (benefits from recessions).

MoneyCat

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2015, 06:43:30 AM »
I'm a schoolteacher and our profession is dying, so I've been focusing on achieving FI before that happens.  Basically, what's happening to us is that we are being replaced with hobbyist teachers from programs like Teach for America and schools are being privatized to reduce wages and benefits.  Those privatized schools are referred to as "charter schools" and they are generally staffed by people who don't plan to make teaching into a career, so they are okay with reduced compensation.  In addition, many schools have decided to "outsource" teaching to online services.  I've been building up my other skills in preparation for the end of this career path, because the end is coming before we know it.

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2015, 07:43:12 AM »
Yep, it's basically my primary reason to want FI. Some of the instability is due to the nature of my current job (petroleum geologist... yep, pretty unstable right now) and some is self-induced because I didn't plan to stay in this field long anyway... I mostly took this job to pay off my student loans, and I enjoy it (and I love geology) but both my boyfriend and I are originally from parts of the country with little or no oil and gas industry activity and we would eventually like to move home (or at least somewhere the climate and culture suits us a little better). Basically once I quit this job (which will be before FI) I'm assuming I'll never make this much money again in my life.

PeachFuzzInVA

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2015, 02:33:34 PM »
Somewhat. I work in the auto industry where if you don't like your pay plan, wait 5 minutes and it will change. I haven't had less than a $10,000 swing (up or down) in my pay for the last 5 years. It makes it difficult to relax or plan anything when you never know how drastically your pay will change from one year to the next.

ajsktb

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2015, 11:31:20 AM »
That's my primary reason. My pay changes week to week based on production and when orders get lean the pay goes down. Currently my checks are about 50% of my 9-year average. In 2009 I found myself in a similar situation and taking home about 40% of my normal pay. I took a chunk of savings and paid off the rest of my student loan, car loan, and all other CC and revolving credit accounts (~20k total). I saved several thousand in interest and it was a guaranteed return on my money. At this time I was only left with a mortgage and rental property mortgage. It was an AMAZING feeling that I had never had never felt before! I realized the enjoyment of material goods doesn't even compare to the enjoyment of being financially sound.

Five years later a dip in earnings doesn't even rock my boat. I'm still able to make extra mortgage payments on 50% of my normal income. I wish more people could be inspired to live this way!

caseyzee

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2015, 12:08:52 PM »
I work at a Newspaper.  Actually printing the paper.  Probably enough said, lol. 

I feel like I would be able to find another job, probably with a pay cut and a move.  But, I LOVE my job, and don't really want another one so I plan on riding this train to the last stop and then, very hopefully, hopping off.

Tabaxus

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2015, 12:13:22 PM »
I don't think instability is the right word for my situation, but ticking clock is.  I won't reach FI in time, but I'll give myself a head start.  Spouse graduation and moving for their career + up or out model in large law firms will, statistically speaking, see my pay plummeting sooner or later.

Guesl982374

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #41 on: February 04, 2015, 02:34:50 PM »
... I guess I feel like I could get let go of at any time, even though I've been assured you really have to f-it up to get fired.  I want to get to the position of FI as fast as possible, so that if I have to get by at a bare-bones level, I can.  Some events can leave lasting impressions.

SweetTPie, I competely understand where you are coming from.

As a secondary benefit, yes, I am seeking FI because of potential job instability. I've moved from being an engineer to a corporate generalist so my skills are highly transferable from company to company. I don't think I am personally "at risk" of current instability beacuse of my background, skill sets, results delivered, and current age (30). Even though I believe I am "extremely low risk" I am always mentally and financially prepared for today to be my last day at work (fired, company goes out of business, corporate takeover, shift in company politics, etc).

I believe everyone becomes at risk because of age and I saw too many people in their late 40s and 50s lose pensions, other benefits, all while worrying about losing their jobs during a takeover when I was interning during college. After that experience (at 19-20 years old), I vowed to myself never to be in a similar situation where I was completely owned by a corporation. I lived at home for a couple years banking 80% and when I moved out continued to save ~30% and focused on getting a MBA / becoming a generalist to increase my income and reduce my risk.

Helvegen

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2015, 12:34:18 PM »
Yes. My husband and I have been laid off more times than we care to count. This past run of a whole whopping two years for my husband has been the longest amount of time either one of us has held a full-time job before being laid off. This is part of the reason it has taken so long just to get off the ground financially. I'm just squirreling away as much as I can in anticipation of the next round of layoffs. Both of our bosses have bent over backwards to tell us our jobs are not going anywhere, but obviously, that means nothing when the hammer falls.

Unique User

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2015, 12:54:06 PM »
Yes - I can easily be replaced by someone younger and earning less money.

This.  Both of us are employed, but looking for new work.  Both non-technical low level management with only the last six years in corporate world.  Spent several years working for ourselves in resort towns which often seems to be a turn-off for employers, totally baffling.   

MsSindy

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2015, 01:06:15 PM »
Yes - in fact it was how I found MMM.  We were watching the news in 2008 when there were all the stories about people losing everything.  I said, "you know, we're only a couple of paychecks away from being like them".  That's when I started budgeting, planning, and researching.  Once I found MMM, I realized not only was my future going to be okay (secure), but holly shit I could retire early!!  (early for me is 52, 4 more years)

When DH's plant was closing all his colleagues jumped ship as soon as something came along, usually at reduced pay, and many of them packed up their families and moved out of state.  That had to, they had bills to pay.  We had a nest egg and can live on 1 income (if we're really frugal!), so we didn't have to react.  As it turned out, we waited and DH found a new job with an 18% pay raise and only 7 miles from home!  Job searching out of strength and security is much better than job searching out of desperation.

But yeah, I totally want to be FI so we don't have to stress about jobs - I'm a project manager, so not really a specialized skill...anyone with about 5 years experience could do what I do (not as well, but they'd get the job done).  And I know damn well, that I won't make the same money elsewhere.

LadyDriver

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2015, 07:09:37 AM »
This is why DH and I chose trucking. Freight will need to be hauled for as long as DH and I choose to work. Even during the recession, there were good loads available for careful drivers who worked smart.

Running under our own authority, and owning our own equipment means that we work when the load is right, and we stay home doing other stuff when freight is bad.

Edit: Before I met DH, I had a government job doing GIS. I found the work interesting, but hated the cubicle lifestyle. I stayed at it long enough to be vested while maxing out my 457. Then I did the math and saw that I would be able to retire at 59 1/2. The rest of my work and saving would simply move that day closer. By then I had met DH and we decided to find a business we could work at together where our pay was mostly dependent on how hard/smart we worked.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 07:23:30 AM by LadyDriver »

rubybeth

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2015, 07:27:56 AM »
Absolutely. There have been many rounds of restructuring at my employer, and I figure it's only a matter of time. My profession isn't exactly dying, but I'd have to move (or commute at least an hour away) in order to get a different job in my field (public libraries).

EngineerMum

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2015, 04:36:00 PM »
Yes, I'm an engineer, so every time the commodity prices drop the company pulls its belt in. Where I live the industry is heavily mining focussed, so it's pretty hard to get a new job in a downturn, as there's always plenty of others in the same position. Moving is not really an option, so I want to get to a position where I'm secure enough to weather a job loss in a bad market. In fact I want to get to a point where I can retrain into a more stable career, but the one I want to pursue pays a lot less than engineering.

RyanAtTanagra

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2015, 06:32:09 PM »
Kind of...in that I work in software which is ever-changing, have no interest to update my skills, and my company is going through hard times. I would still want to FIRE anyways, but I know if I get let go it will be:
...

This describes a good chunk of my urge to FIRE as well. If it makes you feel any better, practically everyone in software or technology has these underlying feelings of exhaustion and anxiety pinned to the fact that there's too much to learn in an ever-changing field.  Every 3-4years, you look around, and so much is different:  New models, new APIs, new hardware and software and tools, evolved consumer expectations, updated integration points, new ways of working.  At the same time you're learning all of this new stuff, you need to keep a large portion of the old junk in your head too, because you probably still need to support it -- or some of the new stuff has been built on top of (embedded) on the original tech.  If you aren't 110% dedicated geek, this is going to get old at some point.

I don't read up on this on my free time, and don't enjoy casual conversations about it as others do outside of work. I don't keep up with the latest.

I'm glad I decided to poke my head in this thread, this is exactly how I've been feeling the past few years (sys admin), and it has very much become my main driver towards FI.  To the point where my current job is not great but good and I'm hoping I can ride it out till I'm FI and then reevaluate.  I can't imagine job hunting and starting over at a new company at this point with the learning curve required.  I just... don't... care anymore (about I.T.).  It's good to read others describe the exact things I'm feeling and knowing I'm not the only one.

Daisy

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Re: Is anyone else seeking FI because of job instability?
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2015, 07:52:50 PM »
Kind of...in that I work in software which is ever-changing, have no interest to update my skills, and my company is going through hard times. I would still want to FIRE anyways, but I know if I get let go it will be:
...

This describes a good chunk of my urge to FIRE as well. If it makes you feel any better, practically everyone in software or technology has these underlying feelings of exhaustion and anxiety pinned to the fact that there's too much to learn in an ever-changing field.  Every 3-4years, you look around, and so much is different:  New models, new APIs, new hardware and software and tools, evolved consumer expectations, updated integration points, new ways of working.  At the same time you're learning all of this new stuff, you need to keep a large portion of the old junk in your head too, because you probably still need to support it -- or some of the new stuff has been built on top of (embedded) on the original tech.  If you aren't 110% dedicated geek, this is going to get old at some point.

I don't read up on this on my free time, and don't enjoy casual conversations about it as others do outside of work. I don't keep up with the latest.

I'm glad I decided to poke my head in this thread, this is exactly how I've been feeling the past few years (sys admin), and it has very much become my main driver towards FI.  To the point where my current job is not great but good and I'm hoping I can ride it out till I'm FI and then reevaluate.  I can't imagine job hunting and starting over at a new company at this point with the learning curve required.  I just... don't... care anymore (about I.T.).  It's good to read others describe the exact things I'm feeling and knowing I'm not the only one.

I'm happy to see others feel this way too.

I recently read through some job openings for a couple of companies around me that some have been leaving from my company to. When I read the job descriptions and think about interviewing for one of them and the types of questions they'd ask, it just makes me want to cry. I'm so happy to be almost FIRE'd.

Now all I need is for my company to lay me off...preferably by the end of the year as that timeline works for me. ;-)