Author Topic: Introduction and bio - How a 30s crisis turned me into a mustachian  (Read 5665 times)

mtriad

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Hi everyone, probably a wall of text is coming but I thought I'd share a bit of my life  and see what likeminded people (who can be bothered reading it) thinks.

I am 32yo, IT Engineer (not a programmer but a generalist) Brazilian born, New Zealand citizen. I have been working on IT since I was, believe it or not, 14 years old when I started in a school backed part time working experience program. I then eventually finished high school and became a full timer.

Because of that experience I ended up being a drop out, I just finished high school and kept working until I was 22 years old when I had my first crisis: I decided to blow everything up and quit my job and open a supplement business. That failed, I burned my savings and I was hopeless, so I decided to take a even more radical step and leave the COUNTRY. Yes Brazil was (and still is) a horrible place for being a midclass worker and I could not expect a decent salary at all let alone make a business work.

I packed everything up and went to New Zealand and started from scratch, learned a new language (English) and worked on IT again (and I thought I was done with IT at 23...). That was 2008, fast forward to 2017 I'm here, 31 years old just coming back from another crisis.

After nearly a decade out of my home country working on IT, just recently putting up a salary closer to 80k (could be more) I had tough 2016. First, one of my siblings passed away unexpectedly without me being able to say goodbye because the plane didn't get in time,  and at the same  I had to spend money in a surgery that was not insurable. Many things started to come to my mind, I broke up with my GF and finally quit my job again saying I was done with this sorta of life where I can't travel and see my family enough times, where I am stuck in this office 8h a day... bla bla.. I really struggle with the day job, which seems to be something you guys don't.

I went to a 2 month break backpacking around Canada and USA and had the best time ever and also time to think. I read a lot and by reading Total Money Makeover I eventually found MMM (which I knew existed before).

You see, I always dreamed of owning my own business and eventually be able to travel and see family and friends I have around the globe whenever I wanted to... or to visit these many friends around the globe whenever I felt like. But after failing about 4 different business in the last 10 years, I decided that the LEAST I could do is to be a mustachian (or to have this frugal lifestyle).

So why all of this text? Problem I have is the cost of my life decisions. Travel and culture is what keeps me moving but it is expensive and not enough... and the side effect is the loss of family connections and loneliness.

I have a negative net worth at the moment (about 32k of debt but another 23k savings that I can't withdraw, kinda retirement thing). I have decided again to move countries, this time to Australia to seek better salary (anywhere between 90k to 150k). I am again forcing myself back to career mode.

The thing is, I will probably find a good job and pay my debt fast and start saving but the prospect of being stuck in the office for another 5 or 10 years scares me.
For example my mother is past her 75 and I don't know if I can be more with her as I wanted before I FIRE.
Because of my lack of physical roots, most of my family is in the other side of the globe and what really matters to me is being capable of seeing my loved ones.
Seems like my lifestyle really has to have a fair bit of travels and job breaks included.

Knowing it's all gonna be slow and considering distance from loved ones, how do you keep your motivation up?
How many of you had these crisis who can share some wisdom?

Thank you, all the best!



maizefolk

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Re: Introduction and bio - How a 30s crisis turned me into a mustachian
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2017, 08:18:39 AM »
Condolences on the loss of your sibling. I cannot imagine what it must have felt like waiting for that plane to come, worrying the whole time. My father recently had an extremely near miss, and I was extremely grateful to live close enough that I could get in my car and be at the hospital in less than a day.

Reading through your introduction, it sounds like a lot of your unhappiness comes back to being so far away from family (I assume they are still in Brazil). FIRE will address that concern by letting you be location independent, but will take a number of years before it kicks in. Call it 5-15 years spending on what savings rate you're able to hit once you put your mind to it.

Have you looked into what your income and expenses would look like if you looked job in Brazil or a nearby country? Are there options to work remotely from New Zealand/Australian companies in your field? I know you mentioned Brazil is not a good country to be a middle class income earner, but with more experience and plenty of practice living and working in english speaking countries it seems like location independent work with reasonable salaries might be more feasible now than it would have been at 22.

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: Introduction and bio - How a 30s crisis turned me into a mustachian
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2017, 08:23:00 AM »
Wow, great post!

Your priorities are clear and yes, it's REALLY hard to live out of alignment with our priorities (highest values). And it takes a major toll.

Some thoughts:

1. Can you get set up in independent IT consulting (work from "home"), so you can travel constantly or live anywhere? Or an alternative like technical writing or, with your experience of learning a second language and being fluent in two, tutoring language students online? This way you can travel or live anywhere AND have a "day job". (Is Brazil LCOL?)

2. Lots of people on the forum do struggle with their job. It's really what motivates them toward FIRE.

3. I suggest you might ask the mods to move your thread to the Journals section, and continue exploring these matters from inside that supportive community over the longer period.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 08:25:31 AM by jooniFLORisploo »

PDXTabs

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Re: Introduction and bio - How a 30s crisis turned me into a mustachian
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2017, 08:39:53 AM »
Welcome!

I too am mid-30s, new to MMM, and work in IT - but with a positive net worth. What did you think of living in New Zealand? What part were you in?

mtriad

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Re: Introduction and bio - How a 30s crisis turned me into a mustachian
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2017, 08:57:30 AM »
Have you looked into what your income and expenses would look like if you looked job in Brazil or a nearby country? Are there options to work remotely from New Zealand/Australian companies in your field? I know you mentioned Brazil is not a good country to be a middle class income earner, but with more experience and plenty of practice living and working in english speaking countries it seems like location independent work with reasonable salaries might be more feasible now than it would have been at 22.

Thank you!

Definitely an option I have been looking into but I'm still finding a bit hard to accomplish with my current skills. And for that I will have to get some motivation back to learn some programming language. I guess some of my struggles are coming down to lack of patience, loss of interest in IT, loss of passion to my work and looking too much into the past wondering why I'm not already there. Let's see how I come out of this!

Wow, great post!

Your priorities are clear and yes, it's REALLY hard to live out of alignment with our priorities (highest values). And it takes a major toll.

Some thoughts:

1. Can you get set up in independent IT consulting (work from "home"), so you can travel constantly or live anywhere? Or an alternative like technical writing or, with your experience of learning a second language and being fluent in two, tutoring language students online? This way you can travel or live anywhere AND have a "day job". (Is Brazil LCOL?)

2. Lots of people on the forum do struggle with their job. It's really what motivates them toward FIRE.

3. I suggest you might ask the mods to move your thread to the Journals section, and continue exploring these matters from inside that supportive community over the longer period.

Thank you for the input!

I love the English tutoring idea and will definitely have a look, perhaps as a side gig as not sure what the income would be like?
For me to be a consultant is definitely possible but I still need some more experience as I have just recently made a career shift to cloud computing, meaning I am less of a senior as I'd like to be. I am trying to motivate myself to up-skill. It all comes to time and patience.

South Brazil is quite LCOL if I get an Australian or USD pay, gosh yes. Awesome place to visit but for me quite not good to live permanently. I love Sydney too so just the ability to fly to Brazil whenever I felt like would be such a win!

So yes I am actively seeking this, just can't seem to be able to find a 100k ish income where I could be location independent. To be honest USA would be geographicly better but even for me as a kiwi citizen seems to be quite hard to get a visa.

I guess the priority for me here is to become location independent but I don't know how I will achieve this yet. Will keep digging!

Welcome!

I too am mid-30s, new to MMM, and work in IT - but with a positive net worth. What did you think of living in New Zealand? What part were you in?
Thanks! Wellington. New Zealand is awesome and lot of opportunities for IT workers however less options therefore harder to get higher pay(small country). Just became a bit too cold and gloomy for me and that got most out of me over the years. That's why I'm going to Sydney now.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 08:59:37 AM by mtriad »

joonifloofeefloo

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Re: Introduction and bio - How a 30s crisis turned me into a mustachian
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2017, 09:30:41 AM »
Teaching language can pay VERY well. It's a great Mustachian strategy implemented by several on the forum.

If I were you, I'd let go of the attachment to a $100k income. I mean, you may well still achieve it, but I would prioritize that lower than the other things. You could potentially be extremely happy with a combo of:

1. Easy flight to family
2. Tutoring language online (and possibly on-site too) + some IT work
3. ...from a LCOL area (e.g., more rural Aus near Sydney, or a LCOL shared dwelling in Sydney, etc).

Then you have an enjoyable life, and the rate of income (so long as sufficient) becomes less important.

Sometimes when we put in place the 3-4 other things that are even more important to us than excessively high income, we become very happy!

PDXTabs

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Re: Introduction and bio - How a 30s crisis turned me into a mustachian
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2017, 11:31:57 AM »
After nearly a decade out of my home country working on IT, just recently putting up a salary closer to 80k......I have a negative net worth at the moment (about 32k of debt but another 23k savings that I can't withdraw, kinda retirement thing). I have decided again to move countries, this time to Australia to seek better salary (anywhere between 90k to 150k).

Sorry, are we talking USD, NZD, AUD?

maizefolk

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Re: Introduction and bio - How a 30s crisis turned me into a mustachian
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2017, 11:38:30 AM »
JooniFLORisploo, that's a very wise point which I completely missed.

Generally people tend to be happier if their life goals are "ends" not "means." Making $100k/year is an means to an ends. If you made that much money, what do you picture being different in your life? Those are generally "ends." The classic example of this is the person whose goal is "I want $1M" who, once they think about it realizes they want a $1M because they don't want to have to worry about money, and figures out they can achieve this end goal by setting up their life so they spend a lot less than they earn in an average month, long before their savings hit the seven figure mark.

Maybe for you a $100k/salary means you wouldn't be worried about money and out of debt. Maybe there is something you really want to buy. Maybe it is driven by a desire for respect, that people who make more money get treated better in the places you work or that you yourself will feel like you'd made it and become a success. Those are all perfectly worthy desires, but by setting your goal as make a salary of $X instead of achieving the desires themselves, you're limiting the number of ways you're going to try to achieve your final desires. All things being equal, the fewer different potential ways I have to achieve a goal, the less likely I am to reach that goal.

I'd put "own a business" into the same category. There's nothing wrong with trying to start businesses (just like there is nothing wrong with trying to grow your salary at work), but it's a good idea to think about the reasons you want to start a business, and how you think owning a business would change you life (independence, lifestyle, respect of peers, responsibility for large numbers of people, ability to help out family members in less fortunate circumstances, etc etc etc), in order to figure out what your final goals are, and if there are alternative routes to those goals you could pursue in parallel with starting a business.

Erica

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Re: Introduction and bio - How a 30s crisis turned me into a mustachian
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2017, 12:10:25 PM »
So sorry to hear of your loved one passing and efforts to see them

There are other occupations where you can at least be around like minded people. Seasonally maybe.

Working a hostel for example, seasonally. This is the hostel we've stayed at for yrs, with it's own private beach. Point Montara Lighthouse hostel
http://www.norcalhostels.org/about-us/jobs#PMLHA Perfect if you are a travel writer, just turn on the recorder and listen to the tranvelers stories. That's 80% of the conversations.

https://hosteljobs.net/browse-hostel-jobs. Maybe living on site getting a salary while doing an IT job? As long as everything is done..that's how I've understood it from staying at Pt Montara. Also see Cool Jobs website.

Running a ski resort, seasonally. You'll need to start at the bottom of course (My neighbor does this making 70K per yr. He works 6 mo./yr)

When/if you rent, consider an area known for it's tourists. Yet away from other houses. Maybe rent out part of the house without your landlord knowing. F/t or via AirB&B. Just some ideas. You sound very smart. Good luck to you
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 02:21:55 PM by Erica »

mtriad

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Re: Introduction and bio - How a 30s crisis turned me into a mustachian
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2017, 03:08:06 AM »
Wow I'm really impressed with the quality of replies here, you are all very nice and smart people.

Teaching language can pay VERY well. It's a great Mustachian strategy implemented by several on the forum.

I could definitely give it a go, I have researched a bit in the forum but couldn't find a fine example just yet. Seems like you need a few certifications to teach internationally, like the TESOL. But will keep my mind open on this one.

Quote
If I were you, I'd let go of the attachment to a $100k income. I mean, you may well still achieve it, but I would prioritize that lower than the other things. You could potentially be extremely happy with a combo of:

1. Easy flight to family
2. Tutoring language online (and possibly on-site too) + some IT work
3. ...from a LCOL area (e.g., more rural Aus near Sydney, or a LCOL shared dwelling in Sydney, etc).


Then you have an enjoyable life, and the rate of income (so long as sufficient) becomes less important.

Sometimes when we put in place the 3-4 other things that are even more important to us than excessively high income, we become very happy!

The only reason I mentioned 100k is because of what I've been reading on MMM so far. Seems like the motto is maximising income and minimising spending? And earning 100k+ seems as close as ever to me.

But by all means, I could live with less if I could be location independent before being financially independent, I so would. But i've been thinking overnight, what I can also do is negotiate with my employer to work a few months per year in Brazil, this could help alleviate the psychological effect of being far. Or I could rent a double bedroom and airbnb, and bring my mother to spend some months with me whenever she wants. So many options in the table, in theory.

Five years ago I was living in a 1890's cottage, with a fireplace, at the top of the hill, no neighbours in sight, NZ countryside. My roommate had a horse we'd ride, I'd wake up with amazing views. I was earning 45k USD max but my rent was 300/mo. It was great but eventually isolation and boredom kicks in, I need to keep moving.


Maybe for you a $100k/salary means you wouldn't be worried about money and out of debt. Maybe there is something you really want to buy. Maybe it is driven by a desire for respect, that people who make more money get treated better in the places you work or that you yourself will feel like you'd made it and become a success. Those are all perfectly worthy desires, but by setting your goal as make a salary of $X instead of achieving the desires themselves, you're limiting the number of ways you're going to try to achieve your final desires. All things being equal, the fewer different potential ways I have to achieve a goal, the less likely I am to reach that goal.

Very good point there. Up to now, higher salary for me was just peace of mind. I was able to save good money even before knowing about MMM and that felt so good. The ability to say yes to things I never dreamed of.
But after discovering I could change my habits and FIRE, seems like my main desire is to kill my debt ASAP, FIRE and be location independent but I know it will take years.

So sorry to hear of your loved one passing and efforts to see them

There are other occupations where you can at least be around like minded people. Seasonally maybe.


Thank you! Funny this is exactly I was gonna do, I was about to get a seasonal visa to Canada. But then I have this debt and would be good to square that first. The saving ratio would still be so low.

I had so many ideas over the years, just for the last couple of months I can tell it involved music, opening a tour operator business, design a new wristwatch. Jeez I need to sort my mind out.



Sorry, are we talking USD, NZD, AUD?

Sorry I started talking USD then shifted to AUD... sometimes I forget there's a considerable difference but it used to be almost 1:1. Usually, at the end of the day, the relation between COL and salary makes it almost equivalent for 1st world countries.

marty998

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Re: Introduction and bio - How a 30s crisis turned me into a mustachian
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2017, 03:19:12 AM »
Earn a $100k package in Australia and you lose 30% to tax straight off the bat, and 9.5% goes into Super (your KiwiSaver equivalent).

So your $100k is more like $60k-$65k after tax income.

Factor in rent in a capital city, because you'll most likely be Sydney or Melbourne looking for an IT job that pays that much, and you're down to $40k spending money, unless you share-house.

Sorry to paint that picture, but you gotta come in with your eyes wide open. Lots of Aussies are thinking of selling up and moving to NZ because of the perceived lower cost of living, and lower taxes.

mtriad

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Re: Introduction and bio - How a 30s crisis turned me into a mustachian
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2017, 04:03:07 AM »
Earn a $100k package in Australia and you lose 30% to tax straight off the bat, and 9.5% goes into Super (your KiwiSaver equivalent).

So your $100k is more like $60k-$65k after tax income.

Factor in rent in a capital city, because you'll most likely be Sydney or Melbourne looking for an IT job that pays that much, and you're down to $40k spending money, unless you share-house.

Sorry to paint that picture, but you gotta come in with your eyes wide open. Lots of Aussies are thinking of selling up and moving to NZ because of the perceived lower cost of living, and lower taxes.

Cheers I'm well aware of that.
No much difference from anywhere else in the world and sounds pretty similar to here from what I researched so far.
In NZ $100k will be like 66k income after kiwisaver and taxes
In OZ the same scenario 100k will be 73k take home pay except you not going to find the same 100k job in NZ, it will pay much lower, and I really seem to have the chance to be paid as much as 150k if I looked hard in Australia from my experience so far.

From what other kiwis and ozzies tell me, the cost of living to be in a decent city in NZ is been quite the same if not worse than Australia if you consider Auckland. Pretty damn HCL.

I'm not saying it's paradise there but really there's no perfect country to be in to work.

Other than that, weather and things to do is the other big motivation for me.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 04:24:04 AM by mtriad »

goatmom

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Re: Introduction and bio - How a 30s crisis turned me into a mustachian
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2017, 05:21:54 AM »
Hi Mtriad - No advice - Just so sorry about your brother.  I lost my brother too and it has been so hard.  I hope you can find a way to structure your life to make your life more in balance.  You sound like a great guy.  Better to make these changes now than later.

mtriad

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Re: Introduction and bio - How a 30s crisis turned me into a mustachian
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2017, 06:22:46 PM »
Hi Mtriad - No advice - Just so sorry about your brother.  I lost my brother too and it has been so hard.  I hope you can find a way to structure your life to make your life more in balance.  You sound like a great guy.  Better to make these changes now than later.
thank you (my case was my sister)  - I am sorry about your brother