Author Topic: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .  (Read 13261 times)

Zamboni

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https://newrepublic.com/article/154618/new-american-homeless-housing-insecurity-richest-cities?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Both rents and home prices are sky rocketing in the past 5 years where I live, and there have been numerous stories in my local papers about people being forced out of their long term apartments and not being able to find anywhere close to work that they can afford . . . and I don't live in a big metro area.

2sk22

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2019, 03:01:13 AM »
Theres a proposal in my town by a builder to construct a 17 story apartment building for which a variance will be necessary. I'll bet that there's going to be weeks of acrimony at the zoning board meetings. NIMBYs are really slowing down the rate of construction.

Zamboni

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2019, 03:08:53 AM »
Will the rents of these apartments be reasonable? Like, would a two bedroom rent be 25% or less of the median family income for your area?

Tons of apartments keep going up where I am, but they are "luxury" apartments with rents much higher than my mortgage payments.

LaineyAZ

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2019, 07:41:08 AM »
Same situation here in Phoenix.  Per an article in the local paper, the recent boom in apartment construction resulted in  87% "luxury" apartments.  Sadly, this has now pushed the Phoenix metro area into the less affordable category when for many decades  affordable housing was one of the biggest draws. 
Of course, wages have not gone up to compensate, so predictably we are now also in a housing squeeze.

I'm wishing we had some local city and county leadership which would have mandated some % of affordable housing within these new units, but of course, that didn't happen in our reddish state.  Meanwhile cue the complaints about more homeless on the streets.

lookingforadelorean

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2019, 09:39:43 AM »
That was a heartbreaking read. Also a frustrating one.

“what we’re witnessing today is an emergency born less of poverty than prosperity—occurring not despite but precisely because of the economic boom.”



seattlecyclone

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2019, 11:58:25 AM »
Will the rents of these apartments be reasonable? Like, would a two bedroom rent be 25% or less of the median family income for your area?

Of course not. High rise buildings are super expensive to construct. If someone could profitably build one and rent it out for cheap without a bunch of public subsidy they would have done it already.

That doesn't mean the building is a bad idea. These homes will be affordable to somebody, and every fancy apartment these folks occupy is a less-fancy one left for people with more normal incomes.

When there's not enough housing for everyone it isn't the rich who go without.

Cassie

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2019, 12:30:18 PM »
Our local area has 400k population and rent and housing prices are skyrocketing.  Rent for a 1 bedroom is 1200.  The average house is 400k while the average family makes 46k.  Wealthy retirees and tech companies moving in is behind this problem. Our homeless population is growing because they ripped down the weekly motels. We are retired and can afford to stay because we have our house.   Last year we went to the Midwest and I couldn’t believe how cheap eating out was.

Zamboni

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2019, 03:06:49 PM »
One of my colleagues had exactly what happened to that family happen to her:

A very unsafe situation developed in her apartment building, someone reported it to the authorities, who marked the building uninhabitable, so she had to bail to a motel, and then when she tried to go back a week later to get some of her things the landlord (slumlord who hadn't been fixing even the most basic things) had posted a notice evicting her. She had the means to do that, but I remember how disruptive it was to her, how much it affected her work that month, and I can't imagine having to navigate that with a low single income and children whom you are trying to keep at their school.

It sounds Ben Carson is basically actively working to destroy HUD. The way homeless are counted is also disturbing . . . 6 people sharing one bedroom is a problem, and probably violates code. No, they are not sleeping on the sidewalk, but families in that situation are as close to homeless as you can get without being on the sidewalk.

former player

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2019, 03:16:36 PM »

The way homeless are counted is also disturbing . . . 6 people sharing one bedroom is a problem, and probably violates code. No, they are not sleeping on the sidewalk, but families in that situation are as close to homeless as you can get without being on the sidewalk.
That's known as "hidden homeless" - people in motels, people sofa-surfing, people in overcrowded accommodation.  Not on the streets and visible, but also not in a place to call their own.

Buffaloski Boris

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2019, 06:07:00 PM »
There are solutions here. But the NIMBYs will hate them.

SunnyDays

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2019, 05:46:36 PM »
I can't help thinking that this type of situation is the result of the American aversion to "socialism," whereby everyone is expected to be fully "independent" and provide for all their own needs.  Where the market place will set rates for everything, and if you can't afford it, it's your fault.

(I had to chuckle at the comment that housing, like FOOD AND MEDICINE is a human right.  As far as I can tell, no one in the States has a "right" to the those - people regularly go hungry or rely on food banks - not funded by the government - and go without needed medication or medical care.  But, hey, at least America isn't a socialist country, right?)

Of course there are answers, I mean look at Scandinavia - how many homeless live there?  But people don't want to pay taxes, especially to help the "undeserving."

Here in my province in Canada, there are rent controls below a certain level (I think somewhere in the range of $1000) and older than a certain age (not sure how many years) which at least gives people at chance at finding something affordable.  But in spite of this, new apartments are not being built at the needed rate, and often places are being run as AirBnBs, which reduces the units available for permanent rental.

So, the trend of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer continues ..........

Buffaloski Boris

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2019, 07:09:16 PM »

So, the trend of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer continues ..........

Same as it ever was.

ecchastang

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2019, 08:04:01 PM »
Andrew Yang has some policy statements that could help address this.

https://www.yang2020.com/policies/

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2019, 08:18:34 PM »
The solution might be just to get used to share housing or smaller accommodation if you can't afford otherwise.

Dicey

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2019, 09:50:38 PM »
PTF so I can find this article when I have time to read it.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2019, 10:18:59 PM »
Since many jobs can be done online now, I don't really get why people feel it's necessary to live in HCOL areas anymore. Just relocate to somewhere else and continue telecommuting from home. I've been to quite a few places in the USA now and honestly one place is as good as another unless you are materially benefitting from being there.

Zamboni

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2019, 12:27:23 AM »
Since many jobs can be done online now, I don't really get why people feel it's necessary to live in HCOL areas anymore. Just relocate to somewhere else and continue telecommuting from home. I've been to quite a few places in the USA now and honestly one place is as good as another unless you are materially benefitting from being there.

The lady featured in the story was an in-home health aid . . . hard to telecommute for that one. Also, she was living in the area where she grew up and trying to not disrupt her children by moving them during the school year. But, yeah, telecommuting . . . that's the ticket for everyone and a sure solution to this problem. Let's all just work from home while our employer pays us the big bucks!

The solution might be just to get used to share housing or smaller accommodation if you can't afford otherwise.

Did you read the article? Because it sure sounds like you think 7 people sleeping in one bed is reasonable.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2019, 01:03:19 AM »
Sounds to me the lady featured in the article didn't want to change jobs, wasn't willing to innovate, wanted to keep her childhood roots, and also didn't want to uproot the children, or live with anyone else.

Well, you can't always have things exactly the way you wanted them.

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2019, 01:43:13 AM »
Sounds to me the lady featured in the article didn't want to change jobs, wasn't willing to innovate, wanted to keep her childhood roots, and also didn't want to uproot the children, or live with anyone else.

Well, you can't always have things exactly the way you wanted them.
She wanted to keep her children in their schools, that seems reasonable to me.  She had a disrupted childhood (rejected by her mother, raised by her grandfather's girlfriend), it's not surprising if she wants to hang on to what roots she has.  She's a black woman with a disrupted childhood, she probably had disrupted schooling in a poor neighbourhood and has few if any qualifications, what job do you think she has a chance of changing to and is she really at the best time for losing the one bit of economic security she has?  And five people on a mattress on the floor among the bedbugs plus unpaid work and emotional abuse with no security of tenure is not just "living with someone else", is it?

The lack of understanding and willingness to dismiss reality for this woman is breathtaking.

Zamboni

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2019, 02:14:06 AM »
The article is about how someone can continue to be pushed further and further into the margins. Here is a woman who has always worked, doesn't break laws, and doesn't drink or do drugs. She received enough training and qualifications to work in healthcare, a field where most people will tell you there will always be jobs. She can't afford to save up for her own home, but she had found a decent place to live and thought she was doing okay. Then gentrification happened, and the lack of city planning for affordable housing means that she and everyone else who works in service jobs in that area are being kicked not just to the curb, but literally to the gutter.

Were all of her decisions in life ideal? Obviously not, but now the punishment is being brought down onto her children. If you don't have empathy for what is happening to the kids in those photos, and if you think that their current living situation is a-okay, then something is seriously wrong with you.

habanero

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2019, 02:16:56 AM »
Were all of her decisions in life ideal? Obviously not, but now the punishment is being brought down onto her children. If you don't have empathy for what is happening to the kids in those photos, and if you think that their current living situation is a-okay, then something is seriously wrong with you.

Apparantly she can just move and work from home over the internet. Problem solved.

Kris

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2019, 05:40:55 AM »
Sounds to me the lady featured in the article didn't want to change jobs, wasn't willing to innovate, wanted to keep her childhood roots, and also didn't want to uproot the children, or live with anyone else.

Well, you can't always have things exactly the way you wanted them.
She wanted to keep her children in their schools, that seems reasonable to me.  She had a disrupted childhood (rejected by her mother, raised by her grandfather's girlfriend), it's not surprising if she wants to hang on to what roots she has.  She's a black woman with a disrupted childhood, she probably had disrupted schooling in a poor neighbourhood and has few if any qualifications, what job do you think she has a chance of changing to and is she really at the best time for losing the one bit of economic security she has?  And five people on a mattress on the floor among the bedbugs plus unpaid work and emotional abuse with no security of tenure is not just "living with someone else", is it?

The lack of understanding and willingness to dismiss reality for this woman is breathtaking.

Not to mention she is doing a job for which there is very much a need, and for which there will be even more of a need going forward.

But no, she’s just a wart on society’s ass who didn’t bother to “innovate.”

TheContinentalOp

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2019, 06:01:04 AM »
Ideas that would help people like this woman in the future, but won't help her specifically right now.


1. Free birth control. Her situation would be a lot more manageable if she had fewer or no kids.

2. Restricting the labor supply. She's competing against a lot of low-skilled immigrants. Cut off the flow and her wages would rise.



Combining 1 & 2. There was another thread about the cost of home health care services in Maine. If she weren't burdened with all those kids, she could more easily relocate to Maine where she could earn 2x-4x as much as she is making right now.

KBecks

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2019, 06:26:55 AM »
Very hard article to read.  Halfway through, I'm thinking -- I'll cosign for her!  (Dave Ramsey will shoot me.)

There was an article in my city about a woman who was living alone with her children, she had bought her own house, and then two of her relatives were killed.  Paying for the funerals took her money and she lost her house.  I understand that she did not have to pay for the funerals, but the sense of commitment to a family member is strong, I get it.  I wonder if the funeral industry has any way to help also. What are they doing?

I had no idea this happens.  A FB friend / school family lost her sister and she posted a facebook fundraiser asking for money for her mom to bury her sister.  I didn't know how to respond to that one, I haven't given yet, but I should. I should.  It is crazy to think that funerals can upset the surviving family's finances. 

In this article, I see no reason why you'd have a big attachment to a $9/hour job that requires travel.  I mean really, aren't there other jobs in Atlanta that are easy to get and pay around the same?

However, these landlords are creeps.  I feel like going into landlording and providing safe affordable homes.  My husband would not want to take the risk.  It is rough working in rough neighborhoods.  OK, what about the fringe of rough neighborhoods?

I wonder if we could crowdsource a affordable housing program, and help one struggling family at a time.  Who is doing this?  I can throw a couple starfish back in the ocean.

I also feel like contacting a lawyer I know in GA with this article to get his read on it.  The lawmakers in the area should be ashamed.

I am not yet rich and stable enough to buy people houses, but I would like to be able to.  The story of the woman in my area who lost her home was very difficult as well.

Broken families have a lot to do with this.  Strong, committed two-parent families help a lot, they are such a blessing even in rough economic conditions.  Abuse, drugs, alcohol all mess up families so bad.

Also --- where are the Atlanta churches who will help her?????   Hello?

@Another Reader -- got any ideas here?

Here is the article from my city on blacklining.  A very informative read:
https://projects.jsonline.com/news/2019/7/10/murder-in-milwaukee-segregation-shapes-racial-disparities-and-crime.html


« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 06:40:54 AM by KBecks »

Clever Name

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2019, 06:30:19 AM »
Here in my province in Canada, there are rent controls below a certain level (I think somewhere in the range of $1000) and older than a certain age (not sure how many years) which at least gives people at chance at finding something affordable.  But in spite of this, new apartments are not being built at the needed rate, and often places are being run as AirBnBs, which reduces the units available for permanent rental.

It's not "in spite of", it's "because of". Rent controls reduce the incentive to build new housing.

KBecks

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2019, 06:42:48 AM »
Sounds to me the lady featured in the article didn't want to change jobs, wasn't willing to innovate, wanted to keep her childhood roots, and also didn't want to uproot the children, or live with anyone else.

Well, you can't always have things exactly the way you wanted them.

Aren't you a liberal? I'm kind of shocked at how heartless you sound about this!

Bucksandreds

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2019, 06:46:29 AM »
Sounds to me the lady featured in the article didn't want to change jobs, wasn't willing to innovate, wanted to keep her childhood roots, and also didn't want to uproot the children, or live with anyone else.

Well, you can't always have things exactly the way you wanted them.

Aren't you a liberal? I'm kind of shocked at how heartless you sound about this!

You know, bootstraps.....

KBecks

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2019, 06:47:55 AM »
OK OK, I shouldn't have made it political.  It's a lot better if we can talk about how to fix things.

ecchastang

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2019, 07:28:22 AM »
She needs the Freedom Dividend.

bacchi

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2019, 07:29:06 AM »
The woman makes $9/hour and was paying almost $12000/year in rent at the initial house. She's more of a badass than most on here.

I'm sure she'd love a coding job at $25 an hour. If only she'd send out resumes, amirite? Why don't the poor just get a better job?


==> The real solution, even though it pains people, was mentioned in the article: more affordable housing.

former player

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2019, 07:39:15 AM »
The woman makes $9/hour and was paying almost $12000/year in rent at the initial house. She's more of a badass than most on here.

I'm sure she'd love a coding job at $25 an hour. If only she'd send out resumes, amirite? Why don't the poor just get a better job?


==> The real solution, even though it pains people, was mentioned in the article: more affordable housing.
Which probably means government intervention at some point.  Government can use its own resources (land it owns), taxpayer resources (building homes itself) or administrative and legal powers (restricting private sector development unless it has an element of affordable housing) -

1.  Make public land available to developers cheaply, subject to its being built on to provide (legally enforceable) affordable housing to buy or rent.
2.  Put in place planning laws that require permissions for open market housing to include an element of affordable housing or a subsidy towards affordable housing.
3.  Local government uses land it owns to build affordable housing.

But if one political party has spent 40 years demonising government that provides basic help to the poor while allowing the rich to profit how much of any of that is going to happen?   Maybe once the rich retirees find out that there is no-one left in their neighbourhood to help them through their monetarily rich but physically enfeebled old ages, as the woman in the article is doing.

KBecks

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2019, 07:48:47 AM »
Government can also kick the @sses of the slumlords who provide housing with electrical problems and standing water.

former player

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2019, 07:56:24 AM »
Government can also kick the @sses of the slumlords who provide housing with electrical problems and standing water.
It's pretty resource-intensive to do that.  You need legal powers to inspect housing and enforce standards, a means of finding out which houses to inspect (as in the article, tenants don't report if it means they get kicked out, so this means tenant protection laws), employees with the expertise to carry out technical inspections, and then a whole team of admin and legal people to go through the necessary processes.  And in the end the only thing proven to work in the worst cases is for government to have powers to confiscate the houses (paying compensation at an appropriate rate) and either repair or rebuild themselves, which involves the upfront investment of a lot of money.

Trump's son in law is a slum landlord.

bacchi

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2019, 08:03:31 AM »
The woman makes $9/hour and was paying almost $12000/year in rent at the initial house. She's more of a badass than most on here.

I'm sure she'd love a coding job at $25 an hour. If only she'd send out resumes, amirite? Why don't the poor just get a better job?


==> The real solution, even though it pains people, was mentioned in the article: more affordable housing.
Which probably means government intervention at some point.  Government can use its own resources (land it owns), taxpayer resources (building homes itself) or administrative and legal powers (restricting private sector development unless it has an element of affordable housing) -

1.  Make public land available to developers cheaply, subject to its being built on to provide (legally enforceable) affordable housing to buy or rent.
2.  Put in place planning laws that require permissions for open market housing to include an element of affordable housing or a subsidy towards affordable housing.
3.  Local government uses land it owns to build affordable housing.

I prefer 2. the most. Working class people get to hob-knob with the middle and upper class. It's good for both groups and doesn't concentrate one class together in one place.

Quote
But if one political party has spent 40 years demonising government that provides basic help to the poor while allowing the rich to profit how much of any of that is going to happen?   Maybe once the rich retirees find out that there is no-one left in their neighbourhood to help them through their monetarily rich but physically enfeebled old ages, as the woman in the article is doing.

The rich will keep pushing and pushing, like the fools they are.

wageslave23

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2019, 08:17:16 AM »
Ideas that would help people like this woman in the future, but won't help her specifically right now.


1. Free birth control. Her situation would be a lot more manageable if she had fewer or no kids.

2. Restricting the labor supply. She's competing against a lot of low-skilled immigrants. Cut off the flow and her wages would rise.



Combining 1 & 2. There was another thread about the cost of home health care services in Maine. If she weren't burdened with all those kids, she could more easily relocate to Maine where she could earn 2x-4x as much as she is making right now.

I think the free market usually solves most of these issues if left to itself.  In this situation, this woman is priced out of the area so she is forced to move to a lcola.  If more low wage employees keep moving away, then employers are forced to raise wages in order to attract workers.  And yes, more low cost immigrants undermines this natural wage inflation.  Just ask unions how they feel about employers importing low cost non-union workers.  The same goes with housing.  If there are no subsidies, then people cannot afford the inflated housing prices and eventually move away, causing a housing surplus.  Prices have to drop until their is more demand because they are more affordable and people start moving back.

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2019, 08:19:15 AM »
Ideas that would help people like this woman in the future, but won't help her specifically right now.


1. Free birth control. Her situation would be a lot more manageable if she had fewer or no kids.

2. Restricting the labor supply. She's competing against a lot of low-skilled immigrants. Cut off the flow and her wages would rise.



Combining 1 & 2. There was another thread about the cost of home health care services in Maine. If she weren't burdened with all those kids, she could more easily relocate to Maine where she could earn 2x-4x as much as she is making right now.

I think the free market usually solves most of these issues if left to itself.  In this situation, this woman is priced out of the area so she is forced to move to a lcola.  If more low wage employees keep moving away, then employers are forced to raise wages in order to attract workers.  And yes, more low cost immigrants undermines this natural wage inflation.  Just ask unions how they feel about employers importing low cost non-union workers.  The same goes with housing.  If there are no subsidies, then people cannot afford the inflated housing prices and eventually move away, causing a housing surplus.  Prices have to drop until their is more demand because they are more affordable and people start moving back.
Ah, the "unregulated free market theory of a perfect life".  If only those inconvenient humans didn't keep messing it up.

Cassie

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2019, 09:51:21 AM »
People need money to move to a lower cost of living.  Here they ripped down all the weekly motels which is where poor people lived. They have put up nothing in their place but the plan is to have upscale condos, apartments and shopping.

pachnik

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2019, 11:18:49 AM »
People need money to move to a lower cost of living.  Here they ripped down all the weekly motels which is where poor people lived. They have put up nothing in their place but the plan is to have upscale condos, apartments and shopping.

Similar stuff going on here too.  In my own neighbourhood, the older, low-rise apartments are being torn down and replaced with shiny, glass-walled condos.   I am not sure where people are supposed to go once they have been evicted.  My guess is further and further out from the city.  So much longer commutes for them. 

jlcnuke

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2019, 11:45:32 AM »
The woman makes $9/hour and was paying almost $12000/year in rent at the initial house. She's more of a badass than most on here.

I'm sure she'd love a coding job at $25 an hour. If only she'd send out resumes, amirite? Why don't the poor just get a better job?


==> The real solution, even though it pains people, was mentioned in the article: more affordable housing.

Or she could get another job as a home health aid and make almost twice as much. Tons of places in the Atlanta area hiring at $15+/hour for that job. Sticking with a $9/hour job is a choice.

While I have sympathy for them, and don't want to make any specific judgments, but with 5 kids there should be plenty of child support to pay for rent and then some without touching her income, and if the ex-spouse can't afford that then it's almost certain that they couldn't afford the kids when they had them. There's a lot to this story that we don't have, and I'm sure that a decent amount of it is choices that have put her in this situation.

Where's the child support? How much is SNAP providing for support for food? How much is she getting in rental assistance from the many groups and government agencies that provide such assistance?

No mention of using/attempting to get any of the housing assistance available that I noted outside of a program for the homeless that she clearly didn't qualify for, despite more than 250 low-income apartment complexes (most with available units) in Atlanta, including many with income based rent. No mention of trying to get HUD assistance or HCVs for help with rent.

A google search will find literally hundreds of sources to get assistance with low cost housing in Atlanta (from low cost housing options to groups that provide assistance to government agencies that provide housing or money for housing) and the only choice discussed was a homeless program while she has a roof over her head??

The situation is far from ideal, and more affordable housing would be great, but let's not pretend a lack of apartments advertising low rates on apartments.com is the only issue here with this story.

Schaefer Light

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2019, 11:53:30 AM »
I'm not surprised the article was about someone in Atlanta.  Among the big US cities, Atlanta probably has the highest percentage of blacks.  It's experienced crazy growth over the past 10-15 years, property values near town have gone through the roof, and the MARTA routes don't seem to reach any further into the suburbs than they used to.  Frankly, I'm not sure how low wage workers who work downtown can make ends meet.  Like some other big cities, the opposite of "white flight" has happened here.  High wage earners are moving closer to town and low wage earners are being forced to move further from town where the commutes are longer and there aren't as many MARTA trains or buses.

seattlecyclone

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2019, 12:31:12 PM »
The woman makes $9/hour and was paying almost $12000/year in rent at the initial house. She's more of a badass than most on here.

I'm sure she'd love a coding job at $25 an hour. If only she'd send out resumes, amirite? Why don't the poor just get a better job?


==> The real solution, even though it pains people, was mentioned in the article: more affordable housing.
Which probably means government intervention at some point.

Agreed. Someone making $9/hr and supporting six kids has absolutely zero room for error without some sort of outside assistance. Maybe she gets a better-paying job (with what time and money to go back to school to qualify for something else?), but someone else will then take her old job. Do they deserve to be homeless any more than she does?

We saw how fragile her situation was: she found a run-down place to live in, that she was lucky to find at that price, but then the luck ran out and she had to move. That one thing was all it took. It was all downhill from there.

Quote
Government can use its own resources (land it owns), taxpayer resources (building homes itself) or administrative and legal powers (restricting private sector development unless it has an element of affordable housing) -

1.  Make public land available to developers cheaply, subject to its being built on to provide (legally enforceable) affordable housing to buy or rent.

This can be a great solution. We're doing this in several spots in Seattle, giving surplus land to non-profits housing developers (Habitat for Humanity, operators of permanently supportive rentals, etc.) to build income-restricted housing. Every little bit helps.

Quote
2.  Put in place planning laws that require permissions for open market housing to include an element of affordable housing or a subsidy towards affordable housing.

We're also doing this in Seattle, but I'm less enamored with the policy. If you make housing more expensive to build, you also make housing more expensive to buy or rent. There's no free lunch. Developers aren't going to just accept a lower profit margin to make this policy work. No, they'll instead wait to build until population growth pushes rents up high enough for a new building to once again be a sufficiently lucrative return on their capital.

While the required affordable homes (or taxes in lieu) do provide much-needed low-income housing, they also squeeze everyone paying market prices just a bit harder. We saw the family in this article asked for help at one point, but they weren't quite homeless/mentally ill/unemployed enough for the limited supply of below-market housing. More revenue for this purpose would make it more likely that she could get help someday, but it won't happen overnight. Let's not make it harder on her in the meantime.

Quote
3.  Local government uses land it owns to build affordable housing.

4. Government gives cash to poor people so that they can find creative market-based ways to solve their problems.

At $9/hour, with six kids to feed, the woman in this article must have been some sort of budgeting wizard to make things last as long as she did. What sort of subsidy would have been enough so that she wasn't limited to looking only at the homes that had bad wiring sitting in a pool of standing water? A couple hundred a month, maybe? Just give her some cash. She'd probably use it at least as efficiently as some program that funnels dollars into non-profit housing complexes and whatever overhead costs they have.

Cassie

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2019, 12:42:27 PM »
She needs a social worker to help her find resources but probably has no time or knowledge about how to access the help.  She may not be computer literate to research herself.

bacchi

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2019, 01:06:46 PM »
The woman makes $9/hour and was paying almost $12000/year in rent at the initial house. She's more of a badass than most on here.

I'm sure she'd love a coding job at $25 an hour. If only she'd send out resumes, amirite? Why don't the poor just get a better job?


==> The real solution, even though it pains people, was mentioned in the article: more affordable housing.

Or she could get another job as a home health aid and make almost twice as much. Tons of places in the Atlanta area hiring at $15+/hour for that job. Sticking with a $9/hour job is a choice.

Yeah, why can't poor people just go and get a better paying job? It's like they WANT to work for lower wages! Just stop being poor already.

Quote
While I have sympathy for them, and don't want to make any specific judgments, but with 5 kids there should be plenty of child support to pay for rent and then some without touching her income, and if the ex-spouse can't afford that then it's almost certain that they couldn't afford the kids when they had them. There's a lot to this story that we don't have, and I'm sure that a decent amount of it is choices that have put her in this situation.

Ok, so what do we do now? Shrug and scold her, "If only you didn't have so many children when you were 20!"

Quote
Where's the child support? How much is SNAP providing for support for food? How much is she getting in rental assistance from the many groups and government agencies that provide such assistance?

No mention of using/attempting to get any of the housing assistance available that I noted outside of a program for the homeless that she clearly didn't qualify for, despite more than 250 low-income apartment complexes (most with available units) in Atlanta, including many with income based rent. No mention of trying to get HUD assistance or HCVs for help with rent.

A google search will find literally hundreds of sources to get assistance with low cost housing in Atlanta (from low cost housing options to groups that provide assistance to government agencies that provide housing or money for housing) and the only choice discussed was a homeless program while she has a roof over her head??

The situation is far from ideal, and more affordable housing would be great, but let's not pretend a lack of apartments advertising low rates on apartments.com is the only issue here with this story.

It's unclear whether you even finished the article.

"Today, only one in four households poor enough to qualify for rental assistance actually receives it."


But, since you can solve this problem, maybe you should contact The New Republic and figure it out for this family and others in their situation. It sounds like you can solve housing insecurity for all of Atlanta in short order.

bacchi

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #43 on: August 26, 2019, 01:17:54 PM »
Government can use its own resources (land it owns), taxpayer resources (building homes itself) or administrative and legal powers (restricting private sector development unless it has an element of affordable housing) -

1.  Make public land available to developers cheaply, subject to its being built on to provide (legally enforceable) affordable housing to buy or rent.

This can be a great solution. We're doing this in several spots in Seattle, giving surplus land to non-profits housing developers (Habitat for Humanity, operators of permanently supportive rentals, etc.) to build income-restricted housing. Every little bit helps.

Habitat was given some lots in a fancy-pants subdivision near me. It's a great idea. I'm sure it's keeping the residents up at night. :)


Quote
Quote
2.  Put in place planning laws that require permissions for open market housing to include an element of affordable housing or a subsidy towards affordable housing.

We're also doing this in Seattle, but I'm less enamored with the policy. If you make housing more expensive to build, you also make housing more expensive to buy or rent. There's no free lunch. Developers aren't going to just accept a lower profit margin to make this policy work. No, they'll instead wait to build until population growth pushes rents up high enough for a new building to once again be a sufficiently lucrative return on their capital.

While the required affordable homes (or taxes in lieu) do provide much-needed low-income housing, they also squeeze everyone paying market prices just a bit harder. We saw the family in this article asked for help at one point, but they weren't quite homeless/mentally ill/unemployed enough for the limited supply of below-market housing. More revenue for this purpose would make it more likely that she could get help someday, but it won't happen overnight. Let's not make it harder on her in the meantime.

Good point. Of course, like others have mentioned, the new apartments going up are more luxury than middle-class anyway. There's just more profit margin to be had.


Quote
4. Government gives cash to poor people so that they can find creative market-based ways to solve their problems.

At $9/hour, with six kids to feed, the woman in this article must have been some sort of budgeting wizard to make things last as long as she did. What sort of subsidy would have been enough so that she wasn't limited to looking only at the homes that had bad wiring sitting in a pool of standing water? A couple hundred a month, maybe? Just give her some cash. She'd probably use it at least as efficiently as some program that funnels dollars into non-profit housing complexes and whatever overhead costs they have.

Yes, this.

mm1970

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #44 on: August 26, 2019, 01:18:23 PM »
https://newrepublic.com/article/154618/new-american-homeless-housing-insecurity-richest-cities?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Both rents and home prices are sky rocketing in the past 5 years where I live, and there have been numerous stories in my local papers about people being forced out of their long term apartments and not being able to find anywhere close to work that they can afford . . . and I don't live in a big metro area.
That was fucking depressing.  I wish I could just buy that family a house.

mm1970

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #45 on: August 26, 2019, 01:20:22 PM »

The way homeless are counted is also disturbing . . . 6 people sharing one bedroom is a problem, and probably violates code. No, they are not sleeping on the sidewalk, but families in that situation are as close to homeless as you can get without being on the sidewalk.
That's known as "hidden homeless" - people in motels, people sofa-surfing, people in overcrowded accommodation.  Not on the streets and visible, but also not in a place to call their own.
They are considered homeless for our school, when we establish residency of our students.  One year, 20% of our 4th graders were homeless.  That sounds shocking, then you temper it with "that includes living in a home with multiple families."  Still...

mm1970

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #46 on: August 26, 2019, 01:25:01 PM »
The solution might be just to get used to share housing or smaller accommodation if you can't afford otherwise.
But that's the same as being homeless.  Federal and state laws both can (and do) limit your legal housing options - by # of people per room, # of people per bedroom, or minumum # of sf per person.

What if you cannot afford to live in a place with 1 person per room or 2 persons per bedroom or a min 168 sf per person?

mm1970

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #47 on: August 26, 2019, 01:27:37 PM »
Sounds to me the lady featured in the article didn't want to change jobs, wasn't willing to innovate, wanted to keep her childhood roots, and also didn't want to uproot the children, or live with anyone else.

Well, you can't always have things exactly the way you wanted them.
She wanted to keep her children in their schools, that seems reasonable to me.  She had a disrupted childhood (rejected by her mother, raised by her grandfather's girlfriend), it's not surprising if she wants to hang on to what roots she has.  She's a black woman with a disrupted childhood, she probably had disrupted schooling in a poor neighbourhood and has few if any qualifications, what job do you think she has a chance of changing to and is she really at the best time for losing the one bit of economic security she has?  And five people on a mattress on the floor among the bedbugs plus unpaid work and emotional abuse with no security of tenure is not just "living with someone else", is it?

The lack of understanding and willingness to dismiss reality for this woman is breathtaking.
Right!

Didn't want to change jobs...to what, exactly?  She's a home health aid.  Those are her skills.  And she's 50 years old.  I'm almost 50.  You don't "innovate" yourself into a new career at 50 when you are homeless and raising 6 children.

You don't move to a new city, because you don't have first and last month's rent.

You don't purposely rip your children from the place that they know.

She was living with someone else for awhile...but this is a big family already.

mm1970

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #48 on: August 26, 2019, 01:29:12 PM »
Ideas that would help people like this woman in the future, but won't help her specifically right now.


1. Free birth control. Her situation would be a lot more manageable if she had fewer or no kids.

2. Restricting the labor supply. She's competing against a lot of low-skilled immigrants. Cut off the flow and her wages would rise.



Combining 1 & 2. There was another thread about the cost of home health care services in Maine. If she weren't burdened with all those kids, she could more easily relocate to Maine where she could earn 2x-4x as much as she is making right now.
two of her children are adopted

mm1970

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Re: Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .
« Reply #49 on: August 26, 2019, 01:32:04 PM »
Ideas that would help people like this woman in the future, but won't help her specifically right now.


1. Free birth control. Her situation would be a lot more manageable if she had fewer or no kids.

2. Restricting the labor supply. She's competing against a lot of low-skilled immigrants. Cut off the flow and her wages would rise.



Combining 1 & 2. There was another thread about the cost of home health care services in Maine. If she weren't burdened with all those kids, she could more easily relocate to Maine where she could earn 2x-4x as much as she is making right now.

I think the free market usually solves most of these issues if left to itself.  In this situation, this woman is priced out of the area so she is forced to move to a lcola.  If more low wage employees keep moving away, then employers are forced to raise wages in order to attract workers.  And yes, more low cost immigrants undermines this natural wage inflation.  Just ask unions how they feel about employers importing low cost non-union workers.  The same goes with housing.  If there are no subsidies, then people cannot afford the inflated housing prices and eventually move away, causing a housing surplus.  Prices have to drop until their is more demand because they are more affordable and people start moving back.
Except for wages don't rise like you say, not always.

Companies just make people make do with less.  Home health aides, retirement and convalescent homes just operate with fewer people.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!