Input on Leaving Job and Returning to School.

[HandleBarStache]

First time post, been lurking for a while !

Here's my situation.  Been at the desk job for 5 years now.  Pays great, about 75K but stressful work environment/call duties burn me out.  The industry has been on hard times, so head count is tight and moving within the company has been shot down many times.  Im an EE with no passion for the career any more.  Finding new work in the field does not interest me.  I started in it because I knew it would be safe, and work would be available.  As I've matured the idea of working for a corporation is something I just cant see myself continuing with, its just not for me.  I've seen what happens when the stock goes down.   

Ive wanted to pursue a new career for some time and am hoping to leave and go back to school to study nutrition and work with  and for people, a passion I discovered in EE school.  This career path financially speaking, would be a fraction of my current salary (avg 50K+). But its not about the money.

I'm looking for some experience/advise from those who have made leaps like this before.  Ive always been of the mindset that personal happiness over rules and financial comfort, but I also have some strategizing to do.

More background, I was late to finding MMM and the ideologies here about financial independence.  I was duped into following the consumerism that my upper management hopes an individual like myself would get stuck into. Since then, I've worked pretty hard to kick habits and eliminate debt.  I'm 28, not married, no children. No debt now other than my home.

Debts: Mortgage 150k left 3% interest.  Have room mates that cover the 1K month payment
Costs for myself : Vehicle and home insurance, groceries (I fork out more for quality produce, meat etc.),utilities, gas funds, 401k contributions ~800 a month.  I'm at a point where I can save a lot, but I'm eager to dive into schooling. 
Emergency fund is around 10K now, and the rest I'm putting into ,my 401k and  saving for tuition.

My schooling will cost 3 years of time and over estimating about 23K.  I will not take out any loans for this schooling.  What I struggle with is what to plan for.

I will need emergency fund and tuition saved up (maybe 33k) ... but do I want 33k sitting in a savings account, if I only need for example 5-8k of tuition money the first year?
I will lose my insurance when I kill my full time job also- I do keep my physical health a priority, but I will have to find some sort of insurance coverage, another added expense to this.

So, in this chaotic post I'd love to hear some input from those who have experienced similar things in their life!

[AZDude]

Ha... I just posted something similar to this. I would suggest you go to school while at your current job.

Otherwise, keep the $33k invested in something relatively safe(REIT, Bond etf?), and just withdraw as needed(takes about a week to get your money, so plan ahead).

[goalphish2002]

First time post, been lurking for a while !

Here's my situation.  Been at the desk job for 5 years now.  Pays great, about 75K but stressful work environment/call duties burn me out.  The industry has been on hard times, so head count is tight and moving within the company has been shot down many times.  Im an EE with no passion for the career any more.  Finding new work in the field does not interest me.  I started in it because I knew it would be safe, and work would be available.  As I've matured the idea of working for a corporation is something I just cant see myself continuing with, its just not for me.  I've seen what happens when the stock goes down.   

Ive wanted to pursue a new career for some time and am hoping to leave and go back to school to study nutrition and work with  and for people, a passion I discovered in EE school.  This career path financially speaking, would be a fraction of my current salary (avg 50K+). But its not about the money.

I'm looking for some experience/advise from those who have made leaps like this before.  Ive always been of the mindset that personal happiness over rules and financial comfort, but I also have some strategizing to do.

More background, I was late to finding MMM and the ideologies here about financial independence.  I was duped into following the consumerism that my upper management hopes an individual like myself would get stuck into. Since then, I've worked pretty hard to kick habits and eliminate debt.  I'm 28, not married, no children. No debt now other than my home.

Debts: Mortgage 150k left 3% interest.  Have room mates that cover the 1K month payment
Costs for myself : Vehicle and home insurance, groceries (I fork out more for quality produce, meat etc.),utilities, gas funds, 401k contributions ~800 a month.  I'm at a point where I can save a lot, but I'm eager to dive into schooling. 
Emergency fund is around 10K now, and the rest I'm putting into ,my 401k and  saving for tuition.

My schooling will cost 3 years of time and over estimating about 23K.  I will not take out any loans for this schooling.  What I struggle with is what to plan for.

I will need emergency fund and tuition saved up (maybe 33k) ... but do I want 33k sitting in a savings account, if I only need for example 5-8k of tuition money the first year?
I will lose my insurance when I kill my full time job also- I do keep my physical health a priority, but I will have to find some sort of insurance coverage, another added expense to this.

So, in this chaotic post I'd love to hear some input from those who have experienced similar things in their life!

Please read "So Good They Can't Ignore You" before going further.  The book isn't about climbing the corporate ladder- it is about the myth of following one's "passion" assuming it will become a viable career, and life will be better.  It was fantastic and helped me work through some things.  I'm not saying you shouldn't pursue this, but I highly recommend the book. 

Actually, here's a podcast where the author explains the concepts in the book (save some time and money).

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2014/08/22/art-of-manliness-podcast-78-the-myth-of-following-your-passion/

[Guesl982374]

Pays great, about 75K but stressful work environment/call duties burn me out.  The industry has been on hard times

If EE = Electrical Engineer, I would seriously consider changing industries/companies now that you have 5 years experience. EE are in serious short demand. You should be making at least double that salary. Another angle would be to consult. I've seen EE make $250K+ (after accounting for benefits) consulting but they work a 50-70 hours per week. I can imagine that you could consult at 25-40 hrs per week, make less, but have better balance and not feel burnt out.

If EE /= Electrical Engineer, please feel free to ignore.

[Milizard]

I was in your shoes--minus the good pay--after working for nearly 15 years in the same job.  Went back to school, graduated quickly, and haven't worked since due to unforeseen circumstances.  (I'm married, so even though we really need me working to get ahead, we are able to stay afloat this way.)  I say job hop, save up for retirement MMM style, and then revisit going back to school after you're FIRE.  Even consider relocating for better opportunities.  If you really want to go back to school, continue working while you do.

[HandleBarStache]

goalphish2002 - I will take the book suggestion, thank you.

I'm going to really try and stay here and return to school if I can.  Since my direction is non-related to anything my employer does, I have a hard time seeing them allowing me to do part time/ hourly work.  I will have the dialogue with them before I make a leap, but in the instance that they do not, I anticipate finding something else temporarily.

And yes EE-equals Electrical Engineer.  Its just not for me.

[MrAlanBreck]

Pays great, about 75K but stressful work environment/call duties burn me out.  The industry has been on hard times

If EE = Electrical Engineer, I would seriously consider changing industries/companies now that you have 5 years experience. EE are in serious short demand. You should be making at least double that salary. Another angle would be to consult. I've seen EE make $250K+ (after accounting for benefits) consulting but they work a 50-70 hours per week. I can imagine that you could consult at 25-40 hrs per week, make less, but have better balance and not feel burnt out.

If EE /= Electrical Engineer, please feel free to ignore.

Indeed.  I was stupid I did not know my value until 8 years into my career.  you should be looking at 85k+, 100k+ for high COL areas.

[VoteCthulu]

Pays great, about 75K but stressful work environment/call duties burn me out.  The industry has been on hard times

If EE = Electrical Engineer, I would seriously consider changing industries/companies now that you have 5 years experience. EE are in serious short demand. You should be making at least double that salary. Another angle would be to consult. I've seen EE make $250K+ (after accounting for benefits) consulting but they work a 50-70 hours per week. I can imagine that you could consult at 25-40 hrs per week, make less, but have better balance and not feel burnt out.

If EE /= Electrical Engineer, please feel free to ignore.

This depends on where you are, where I live that about the median salary for a EE with 5 years experience, but I'm sure other locations can be far higher.

[Guesl982374]

Pays great, about 75K but stressful work environment/call duties burn me out.  The industry has been on hard times

If EE = Electrical Engineer, I would seriously consider changing industries/companies now that you have 5 years experience. EE are in serious short demand. You should be making at least double that salary. Another angle would be to consult. I've seen EE make $250K+ (after accounting for benefits) consulting but they work a 50-70 hours per week. I can imagine that you could consult at 25-40 hrs per week, make less, but have better balance and not feel burnt out.

If EE /= Electrical Engineer, please feel free to ignore.

This depends on where you are, where I live that about the median salary for a EE with 5 years experience, but I'm sure other locations can be far higher.

Fair enough. I'm coming from a HCOL area where EE's are always in high demand in 'unsexy' industries so they are willing to pay a lot more.

[HandleBarStache]

I guess the point of this post was to get more insight on the shift from folks that have experienced a similar situation, rather than asking the question "should I stay or should I go"

I will go, I'm just uncertain about how to handle my savings accordingly to work best for me.  I will have to move my 401k somewhere also, due to the fact I will no longer get any match incentives. 

I'm in the midwest by the way, very low cost of living (minus high real estate taxes). 

[ysette9]

I'm in Silicon Valley so my perspective is skewed by that, but hear me out all the same. I think EE is incredibly valuable and probably your best ticket to FIRE. You don't like your job and maybe you don't like your profession. So get a new job! I'd recommend doing some soup searching and talking with a mentor to identify what you do like. What I mean by that is what generic kinds is situations, tasks, and environments you like. Do you like interfacing with people or not? Big picture thinking of details? Design or implementation? If you can get a job with a big company then there is room for you to move around and try different types of engineering. Almost nothing I am doing in my current role is related to what I studied in school or even what I started my career out as with the exception of the word "engineer" in my job title. Engineers know how to learn and create and problem solve and communicate and you can do just about anything with that skill set.

And I agree that you should be able to get more money for your degree and work experience.

[FIRE Artist]

I personally love engineering in and of itself, but am struggling to translate that into a corporate job that isn't soul sucking. I suspect that nutrition may turn out to be the same way.

My company has an on site nutritionist as part of some sort of "wellness" program to reduce health insurance costs. But, the stuff they do is either extremely basic, like middle school health class basic, or some combination of BS/extremely low expectations. Like, telling obese, diabetic cubicle slaves to walk for 20 minutes a few days a week, follow the food pyramid, be less retarded eating out (but not scrap it all together), eat less white grains and desserts (but still way more than you should), order only 1 hotdog and a small frenchfry instead of XXXL (but not something actually healthy), only drink a few sodas a day instead of an entire case, etc. I'm pretty sure that person is either the shittiest nutritionist on earth or depressed as hell about how trivial her work is and how she can't lay down more demanding recommendations so half the company could stop being obese diabetic coach potatoes. If taking somebody from 100 lbs overweight so 95 lbs overweight in 2 years sounds like a significant accomplishment to you, you'd love what she does.

That job doesn't sound like a Registered Dietician (Nutritionist), which is an actual profession and work in hospitals or private practice. This, like any professional healthcare practitioner is in high demand and can be lucrative, especially if you work full time and maintain a private practice on the side.

[HandleBarStache]

FIRE Artist - That is the direction I am taking.

Again, not trying to be convinced on staying with the profession.

What do I do with my 401K, since my income for a few years will be lower?  Roll it over to some other 401K (one not provided by my current employer obviously)

[AZDude]

Roll the 401(k) into an IRA. Its easy to do. I've done it a couple of times. The institution you are rolling it into does most of the work(they want your business).

[oldtoyota]

Ha... I just posted something similar to this. I would suggest you go to school while at your current job.

Otherwise, keep the $33k invested in something relatively safe(REIT, Bond etf?), and just withdraw as needed(takes about a week to get your money, so plan ahead).

I agree with this poster to continue working while attending classes.

Have you "tried out" your new career? If not, I would talk with others in the nutrition field and see if you can get experience in the role. At the very least, ask people in the field now what they like and don't like about it so you have the full picture. What if you end up hating an element of the new profession?

Once you've done that research--and decided you want to continue--then go for it.

I researched MBA programs. When I did the cost-benefit analysis, I decided that $90K could be better used in my savings so that I could FIRE. In my case, my salary would have probably increased. But I'd be locked into a job. Once I analyzed that, my choice became clear.

You're different because you want a different career. Have you considered working for yourself as a dietician with a specific practice area? Nutritionist entrepreneurs make more than $50K. They have membership sites teaching people to cook healthy foods. Or they offer meal plans to cure specific ailments. A Google search can reveal these possibilities.

I once considered a nutrition path and the low salary turned me off to it. However, I might have done it had I realized I could take the entrepreneurial path.

Good luck!

[neil]

Don't confuse this as a post trying to persuade you back to engineering.  I can understand not wanting to do the work.

I would give a strong assessment on whether the structure of employment is a problem for you.  Relationships with managers tend to be similar across industries because people act about the same.  I would expect to have similar kinds of issues with any career and only expect improvement if you find the right boss.  The only way to truly avoid this is to work for yourself, and you don't necessarily have to go back to school for that.  I would also consider if you are a type to get bored of careers on a regular basis.  Going back to school for a career switch every decade will perpetually set you back both in costs and lost income.  On the other hand, if this is what you would be doing if you were FIRE anyway, it doesn't seem like that much of a stretch.  I would not go into debt for it, but you also don't have to live your life in a mathematically optimal way.

I would not discount part time during school as an option.  You are the one with the power in this situation because you are already prepared to quit.  Save your money for school, and when the time comes, push for a change.  You will almost certainly get rejected initially, but you are prepared to leave unconditionally.  Training new hires is painful in engineering and it is absolutely worth it for them to keep you on part time for a while.  You might not stay employed for three years this way, but you'll be able to make some extra progress toward your financial goals.

It is not bad to start a career at 31 with some expectation of moving retirement farther away if that is what you want.  However, you should never discount your engineering experience and put it to use.  You should have the skills to evaluate or create tools to help clients and provide yourself a good business front for attracting private clients.  If you apply your engineering skills to your new career, you should find yourself closing the gap between your current and prospective salary.

[Milizard]

I guess the point of this post was to get more insight on the shift from folks that have experienced a similar situation, rather than asking the question "should I stay or should I go"

I will go, I'm just uncertain about how to handle my savings accordingly to work best for me.  I will have to move my 401k somewhere also, due to the fact I will no longer get any match incentives. 

I'm in the midwest by the way, very low cost of living (minus high real estate taxes).

I said what I said because I've been there and done that.  I quit.  Moved my $135k in my 401k to a rollover IRA.  Very easy.  So easy, I don't even understand why it is a question.

Finished my second degree as fast as I could--11 months.  Some family demands have gotten in the way of my actually using that new degree.  Someone else on another message board attempted quitting and going back to school.  She first quit and then went part-time at work, FT at school.  (This was the opposite of what I suggested to her, but she was 100% positive she was going to do this and become an engineer.)  Shortly after she started, it wasn't what she expected, I guess.  She discovered that engineering wasn't her thing after all, and she's now going to train for something more tangential to her original job.  The money situation and dealing with the financial aid office were too stressful for her to deal with.

If you quit altogether, go as fast as you possibly can.  Supporting yourself during this is a big expense.  You're an adult already with an adult job.  If you can leverage that at all to work PT, do it.  Again, I suggest PT school, FT work.  At the very least PT work, and FT school.

[Ryland]

Go, go, go!

28, not married, no kids... Mortgage at 3% (epic!)... Asking questions in the MMM forum... You are smart and will be just fine!

The path to FI is not about staying put in bad situations to make the numbers work. Once you get some safety margins under your belt (no debt, emergency fund, money in investments, in-depth financial education, etc.), you are almost obliged to improve your life along the journey to FI. As much as FI is about the numbers, it is also about the lifestyle. Don't let the numbers take you over, just make sure they are always moving upward, long term.

I actually just quit my job (similar age and life situation as you) for some extended travel. It's been the best decision of my life.

I wrote an article about how I made my decision to quit and another about the safety margins I built that made my decision feel so safe. Feel free to give them a read. I really think they'll help you with your decision.

How I decided to quit: http://www.thehiddengreen.com/blog/i-quit-my-job
Safety margins: http://www.thehiddengreen.com/blog/mom-and-dad-test

Hope this helps! And update us as to your decision!

[HandleBarStache]

Go, go, go!

28, not married, no kids... Mortgage at 3% (epic!)... Asking questions in the MMM forum... You are smart and will be just fine!

The path to FI is not about staying put in bad situations to make the numbers work. Once you get some safety margins under your belt (no debt, emergency fund, money in investments, in-depth financial education, etc.), you are almost obliged to improve your life along the journey to FI. As much as FI is about the numbers, it is also about the lifestyle. Don't let the numbers take you over, just make sure they are always moving upward, long term.

I actually just quit my job (similar age and life situation as you) for some extended travel. It's been the best decision of my life.

I wrote an article about how I made my decision to quit and another about the safety margins I built that made my decision feel so safe. Feel free to give them a read. I really think they'll help you with your decision.

How I decided to quit: http://www.thehiddengreen.com/blog/i-quit-my-job
Safety margins: http://www.thehiddengreen.com/blog/mom-and-dad-test

Hope this helps! And update us as to your decision!

Thanks for the reply, great blog. I hope your journey is going well!

[Ryland]

Thanks, HandleBarStache. Keep me posted on how the transition goes!

[Lance Burkhart]

ysette9 and goalfish gave you good advice.  Do not quit being an EE.  Read Cal Newport, get better at what your company values, and you'll make your own hours and make a lot of money.

My wife is a dietitian and I'm an EE.  Every job has its frustrations, but I love it.  It's a very broad profession with a lot of interesting subspecialties that can be very lucrative.  Before you change your job, change your attitude. 

Most people in dietetics are women.  Are you a woman?   

[FIRE Artist]

Most people in dietetics are women.  Are you a woman?

Oh good grief.  Men are infiltrating the allied health fields at a much faster pace than women in engineering, and they generally do well with a disproportionate number taking on management roles (based on observation from my province).

[DirtDiva]

Most people in dietetics are women.  Are you a woman?

Yes, because don't you dare challenge a gender stereotype.

[SachaFiscal]

What if you first try going to school while working then if it is too much you can quit.  Or if you start focusing on school and your work suffers, they may lay you off which would mean severance and unemployment $.  I think you may want to try taking some classes and see if it's what you really want to do.

I Started working as a software engineer right out of school and really hated it.But I stuck with it for the money. Around 28-29 I wanted to do something different with my life and become an Ayurvedic practitioner so I did a training. I also took some massage classes. But all while I was working. I realized that although I loved learning about it I didn't really like working with clients and handling the business and marketing side of things so I ended up just staying at my job. I ended up getting fairly good at engineering and eventually made my peace with it, made the most of it. It allowed me to save a great deal of money and gave me intellectual confidence that I lacked before.  All the while I've been learning about nutrition and yoga and body mechanics and meditation.  All things I'd like to use eventually to help others.

Now 12 years later I've saved up a nice nest egg and feel comfortable quitting to pursue my passions without having to make a ton of money from them.

I too feel like and corporate life is not for me but I felt like the opportunity for earning and saving money was too good to pass up. But I did sacrifice many years to this career that I didn't like all that much.

One of my coworkers was a EE and transitioned from PL design to software and likes it a whole lot more. Software is way easier than PL or hardware design and there are a lot of opportunities to work for companies that are doing something more in line with your values.

Anyway my 2c.

[goalphish2002]

Maybe even before taking classes, you could shadow someone in the field.  Ask questions about what they like and don't like about the profession and their job.  You might find they love the topic, but have the same complaints about red tape, politics, and organizational structure.

[BigHaus89]

Try going to night school and maybe some job shadowing on the weekend. You should make sure this is really what you want to do, as you might find the same shitty corporate soul suckingness in any career you choose. It is a lot easier to FIRE as an EE than a dietitian/nutritionist. Have you considered being a nutritionist after you FIRE? Having a passion for something doesn't mean it translates to having a great career in that field. For instance, I love weight lifting, but I would hate being a personal trainer.

Also, as you know, EE is a very broad field that does not have to be demanding as your current situation. You might be surprised how well you might like a different sector of EE. I am an EE and love my job and will likely work much longer after I FIRE. It's all about what company you work for.