Inconspicuous Consumption - Private School Discussions are Rampant in my area

[tooqk4u22]

Private/Prep school discussions have been increasing with voracity in my neck of the woods. It's happening with very high income earners and middle income earners alike, with the middle earners saying things like I hope we can get aid or scholarships or I will have to get a job (SAHP) to pay for it.   These parents say that their kids need to go to these schools because it is the only way for them to be able to get in a good college and be successful in life. 

I am sure I am noticing this more now as my kids are approaching high school age and I am sure the 10 year bull run and continued strength of the economy are contributing factors.   But we live in MCOL with pretty good public schools (and very high property taxes that pay teachers very well) so to spend $15-30k per year on high school is foreign to me.  I can't help but wonder if this is driven truly by the belief that the education is of superior form or is just another keeping up with the jones dynamic. 

But to be honest, when I am around these conversations I find myself feeling guilty for not doing same for my kids.  Am I not doing enough? Am I letting them down?  Will my decisions put them behind the 8-ball in life?  I mean after all, there is plenty of evidence that the paths of the affluent and privileged does continue to build on itself and perpetuates success (a lot due to access and networks and so on) so it is only understandable that people are either insecure, competitive, or sacrifice things about this. It is a much better "keeping up"? than say for houses and bmw's and whatnot.

Anybody else seeing this and have a view on it?

[YttriumNitrate]

I mean after all, there is plenty of evidence that the paths of the affluent and privileged does continue to build on itself and perpetuates success (a lot due to access and networks and so on)

Perhaps others are different, but I don't keep in contact with many people from K-12 so any "access and networks" associated with those years of schooling is minimal.

[mozar]

What are your values? Because private school and public are different.  I went to private school for middle school and 9th and tenth. And public school in 11th and 12th. I can tell you for sure that private school is not better academically and it will not ensure your child goes to a "good " college. In fact ivies are very open to public school kids because it's considered "diversity " because so many applicants are wealthy private school kids.
What I learned from private school: how to network, that it's better to work smarter than harder, conversation skills, negotiating skills and things of that nature.

[Dave1442397]

We have a great public school system, which I would expect for the $12,000 a year we pay in property taxes.

I have some friends and neighbors who send their kids to private school, but I don't see the point.  Our high schools teach at a level way above anything I experienced as a kid, and I'm very happy with the education my daughter is getting.

[DadJokes]

Unless it's some top-of-the-line private school where a large percentage of graduates goes on to ivy league or something along those lines, it's generally a waste. As someone married to a teacher, I can say that the largest contributing factor to a child's success (excluding natural intelligence) is home life. Creating a low-stress environment and making reading and learning part of normal life at home will go a long way.

[Car Jack]

Every private school is different and you won't know the pros and cons until your kid has been in the school long enough to figure out what these are.  Our kids have been in various private schools for some of their pre-college years.  Some things we learned.

School #1:  Very clique oriented.  Since my son had not been there since kindergarten, he was somewhat an outcast.  He hated it.  Great English department.  They taught keyboarding (typing) which in my opinion was the ONLY thing I learned in high school worth anything.  Son can type 120 words per minute.  In 3 years there, his math slid an entire year and when he returned to public high school, he was a year behind.  He had to take a summer course after high school to catch up before engineering college.

School #2:  Very academic and sports focused.  Teachers seemed to be either excellent or borderline psychotic.  They were completely unable to read our son and realize the stress he felt.  They moved him up a level and he fell apart (each course had 3 levels of difficulty). 

School #3:  We tried this in the summer first to see if son would fit in.  This was boarding and he liked the classes but did horribly in the free time in the dorms.  For this 5 week course, we brought him home after 2 weeks.  He did not attend in the fall.

School #4:  This was a "Therapeutic School" and was a perfect match for our son.  He was given much better attention.  It was not perfect by any measure, but it was far, far better for him than any previous schools. 

Now that both kids are in college, my view on private schools is this:  If your kid does not have a special need to be addressed, it's likely a stupid idea to pay money.  You're not going to find Nirvana in a private school.  The kids may or may not be better prepared for college.  Case in point....2 of one of my son's friends from public school went to a rigorous private school (one of my sons took a summer math course there).  Graduated near the top of their classes.  Both got into the same excellent, private engineering college that my son transferred in during his 2nd year (and I graduated from along with Fred Flintstone).  At the end of first semester, both these superstars had dropped out of the school.  One went on to community college.  The other commuted to state college.  Neither could handle making their own decisions for themselves, as the private school very much told them what to do, how to do it, when to do it.

There's my 2 cent's worth.  Perhaps your friends hate kids and want the boarding school option to get them out of their lives.

[2sk22]

Unless it's some top-of-the-line private school where a large percentage of graduates goes on to ivy league or something along those lines, it's generally a waste. As someone married to a teacher, I can say that the largest contributing factor to a child's success (excluding natural intelligence) is home life. Creating a low-stress environment and making reading and learning part of normal life at home will go a long way.

I am in complete agreement. If the parents are educated or at least respect education, the kids do well. Much greater impact than what they teach in schools.

[thesis]

I went to public school. My parents were blue-collar workers, but they were always home in the evenings. I had a very good family life. My closest friends in high school weren't extreme achievers, but they were damn level-headed, and I'm very thankful for that. I'm currently a software developer with a $100k+ stash and growing, and I'm very fortunate and blessed to be where I am. Absolutely none of that required private school.

Back in high-school, people were freaking out about grades and extracurriculars so they could get into "the best" colleges. If we think it's bad in the US, I've heard it's far, far worse in Japan - it's worth looking up. Why people in first world countries are so terrified of their kids not getting the very best of everything seems like the very worst kind of hubris in all of human history, but people let the quest for prestige infect them no matter where they're at, I guess.

I did honors and AP classes, was even in NHS, but, after a few transfers, basically ended up at a 4-year community college (that's my description, I know it's not a real thing :) ) and completed a not-so-lucrative degree. Yet things still turned out for me. I would change some of that if I had to go back (I'd get an associates in a well-paying field and enter the workforce to save for FI immediately), but I tell you what, my parents just being around and being loving and supporting made a world of difference to me. Sadly, some of these parents who are obsessed over their own child's "success" spent long hours in the office to afford stupidly priced sh*t (like most private schools, IMO), and then wonder what happened when their kids make really bad decisions in life. There are always exceptions, of course. My parents are simple people, too. If you need extreme success, it's because you haven't learned contentment, and I guess when people run out of things to worry about, they start worrying about their children's education, and the situation you're describing happens.

I've also noticed that pre-schools will often be given academic/British-sounding names. Goddard School. Princeton Academy. No doubt to invoke imagery of prestige and "high education". It's pre-school dammit. But anything to convince parents that the formative years of education will get them into top schools over a decade later, and into a top life, so pay us money. Ugh. Makes me sick. If you really love private school, hey, it's your money, but mostly people are trying to sell you a lie. Stupid is as stupid does. Private school does not equal success in life.

[Sibley]

I think you need new friends who share your values. This is classic "keeping up with the Jones". A diverse public school where your kids get a good education and are exposed to a lot of different people is going to be better for them in the long run. Unless the public schools for some reason really are a bad choice for your kids, in which case private can be a good choice.

I'm not in regular contact with anyone from pre-college. Zero. I've never gotten a job through one of them, I've never helped one of them get a job. I don't even live anywhere near my hometown.

You kids will be much better served in the long run by having parents who are financially stable, able to assist them get started if necessary, and recognize that there's many more paths in life than the single path you're currently considering.

[John Galt incarnate!]

I can say that the largest contributing factor to a child's success (excluding natural intelligence) is home life. Creating a low-stress environment and making reading and learning part of normal life at home will go a long way.

Hear, hear!

[teacherwithamustache]

The only private school argument I will listen to is smaller student body.  If the public school has a graduating class of 800 students and the private school has a graduating class of 75 students there is a lot more opportunity to be in school activities.

With 3200 kids at your school you better specialize in one activity (football, band, choir, debate, ffa, whatever)  If you dont specialize in your activity and take classes and camps all year long in your activity I promise you there are 50 other kids just in your grade at your school taking classes and camps all year long in your activity.  With a private school you can be on the football team, choir, basketball team, golf team, and be student council president if that is something you would like to do.  It is all possible.

The top 25% and bottom 25% of the student body are equal at both.  The middle half is definitely better at private school (is this due to the school or the parents having money)?

[YttriumNitrate]

The top 25% and bottom 25% of the student body are equal at both.  The middle half is definitely better at private school (is this due to the school or the parents having money)?

Based on my experience going to a private middle and grade school followed by public high school, I'd say the bottom 25% is much better at private schools. I attribute this mainly to private schools having more leeway in getting rid of problem kids.

[Metalcat]

Private school or specialized programs in pubic schools are often fantastic alternatives for kids who fail to thrive in their local public schools. This in no way generalizes that private schools are superior.

I went to an elite program in high school, it was a life saver for me because I was developing a really toxic relationship with school up to that point. I loved my program, they knew exactly how to handle a little shit disturber nerd like me. Mostly because they just let us do whatever we wanted to do and trusted that our shenanigans were probably more educational than their curriculum. Every now and then one of us would blow up a class and turn it into a gong show of our own imagining, it was brilliant.

That said, a lot of the kids there suffered immensely. They weren't there because they needed to be, they were there because their parents wanted them in the program and because they *could* get in. Basically every kid in the program was expected to be a lawyer, doctor, politician, etc, and they pretty much all are now. The thing is, with that kind of parental pressure, it's what they were going to do regardless of what school they went to.

For the more sensitive kids, their desperate desire to make their parents proud, combined with the astronomical demand of the course work, the near impossibility of staying top of their class anymore, the expectations for their future careers, and their even stronger aversion to not fitting in made for a perfect storm of excessive pressure and led to rampant ADD med abuse and multiple suicides. I saw a lot of the same types in my doctoral program, most of whom had gone to elite private schools, most of whom were in the program because their parents wanted them there.

I remember talking to a med student who was really stressed about going into the surgical program she had matched to. I asked her "if your parents thought that surgery was a terrible career choice for you and pressured you not to do it, would you have chosen to apply to surgery?" Without a second of hesitation, she said "Absolutely not." Her answer fucking chilled me.
Me? My hippy parents wanted me to be an artist. I can't fathom making career choices just to make them happy.

So yeah, the right school for your kid is the one where they thrive, not the one that impresses your neighbours the most, and not even the one that purports to statistically improve the odds of your kid pursuing a career that you deem to be superior.

If your kid ends up fucking weird like me, they might need a special program in order to do well in school. Otherwise, as DadJokes said, home life will have infinitely more impact than anything else, and IMO, the best thing you can do for them is to not try and define for them what success looks like.

[Buffaloski Boris]

For me, the reasons for private school real boil down to two questions: utility and religion/character development. The utility argument, I.e. that private schools are “better” than public is kind of hard to make, since it really depends on the school. I think the argument for private schools is much easier to make on Religious/ character development grounds. If raising your kids in a religious environment and/or heavy character development environment is important, then frankly the private religious schools win.

Now before the atheists out there get themselves all worked up, it is very possible for a non religious private or public school to be good at character development. I just think it’s more difficult and has to be more intentional. And obviously a public school in the US can’t teach a religious curriculum.

For us the choice was pretty easy. Religion and character development mattered to us, so the utility wasn’t a deciding factor. 

[Laura33]

1.  My rule is always start with the free option, and then change if it doesn't work. 

2.  At some point, you need to decide what is "good enough."  There will always be something out there that seems better, fancier, more prestigious, cooler, whatever.  Most of those things aren't worth the tradeoffs they involve.

3.  You seriously, seriously overrate the power of networking, particularly at the HS level.  Sure, if you want your kid to play with the power-elite-0.0001%, you need that kind of networking -- but, psych, you're already too poor and unimportant to play that effectively anyway.  Luckily, for the vast, vast majority of us, "networking" doesn't mean "having a bunch of blue-blood old-money friends to connect me with whatever I want without any effort on my part."  Almost anywhere in the country, alumni from the local school are valued at least as highly, if not moreso, than kids with degrees from prestigious-sounding schools a thousand miles away.  My DH and I grew up with no connections and went to public HS, and we're not exactly glad-handers and charismatic flesh-pressers, but we both built great professional reputations and networks by doing great work -- in fact, DH has found most of his jobs through that very network.  Oh, and we both got scholarships to highly-ranked private colleges despite our pedestrian public-school education -- and after our first job, no one cared where we went anyway.  Maybe moving in the right circles is a path to moving up in the world, but it is far and away not the only path, or even the most useful one for most people. 

4.  There is significant value in growing up surrounded by kids who are different than you and who have different needs and priorities and family situations and options.  My kids seriously do not judge people based on income or social status, they don't beg for brand-name-everything, and they make friends based on interests and personality and behavior.  That perspective also helps quite a bit with the entitlement mentality that is so easy to fall into when you grow up in a wealthy environment where no one wants for anything.  Certainly my DD got a serious gratitude check when she realized she was the only one of her friends who didn't have to worry about whether she could afford to go to the college she wanted.

5.  There are definitely some kids that don't fit in a public school environment, and some public schools that don't do well with the kids they have.  But why start from the assumption that your kid or your school falls into that minority?  See point 1.

[joemandadman189]

posting to follow

my kids are likely going to private school at least for K-8 then public high Schools

[cheaplynn]

I've worked at private schools and public schools. Have had excellent and terrible colleagues at both. Have taught excellent and terrible students at both. The benefit of private school is that they can be more flexible and creative with their curriculum and school structure, and, of course, any limits that are placed on enrollment (like testing in) help to weed out lower-performing students. Despite all of that, I am a huge fan of the public system. There's generally more student life and better extracurriculars, more diversity, and a more relaxed social environment (or, at least, less of the in- and out-crowd thing that happens at a lot of private schools). I mean, working at a private school was a way easier job, but I enjoy the public school environment so much more that I plan to stay.

I'll also reiterate the comment that home life is way more of an influence than anything else. While outliers certainly exist, if you are supporting your children's academics, helping them with homework, giving them cool and enriching experiences, having intellectually rich conversations, cultivating them as readers, etc. -- these are the things that play the biggest role, in my observations, than the type of school.

My bottom line, if the public schools in your area are high-performing, they're not going to get any "better" of an education than a private school. It'll just be a different kind of education.

[Sanitary Stache]

The concept that private school leads to better opportunities rings hollow for me.  Isn't the best opportunity financial independence and economic freedom?  I don't see an elite path as the means to that.  Strong family life, good savings examples, and the MMM forum are better.

[Bloop Bloop]

It's probably heavily dependent on the school district but in all the school districts I was in, getting very good test scores got you into free selective entry public schools with the same academic results as the very best private schools. So I think if you are desperate to maximise your child's education then the first thing to do would be to enrich their prospects of getting into such a program.

And if your child wasn't talented enough to get into such a program you would have to think about whether or not a private school would make a meaningful difference in the child's academic results. I haven't seen any data which suggest that, after controlling for socio-economic factors, private schools improve post-school academic performance. As far as I can tell, private schools' good results are partly achieved by offering scholarships to gifted students - so there's a real chicken and egg problem.

Further, if you are really that worried about your children hanging out with the "right" people or making the "right" connections, then it may be better to teach them about the social underpinnings of networking, rather than paying their way into an exclusive club. Because a private school's exclusivity doesn't benefit children - it benefits their parents. The kids don't understand it and at best they are sanguine about it and at worst they become snobby and feel they are deserving of privilege which they didn't even earn themselves.

As if you couldn't tell, I'm very much against private schools because I think the only commodity they really sell better than a public school is exclusivity, and I think exclusivity only has limited utility in life, and to the degree that it's useful, it's mostly only useful if you earn it yourself rather than having your parents pay your way into it.

All these kids from rich families who are pampered and go to private schools would have flourished regardless because they were born on third base. The tragedy is that poor and middle-class families then think the private school is the magic cauldron that makes the kids successful. Actually the private school is just the outward signifier.

[RFAAOATB]

What’s the greatschools.org ranking for your district?  For my next move I am tempted to buy a cheap house outright in a 1 or 2 district or buy the cheapest condo in the most expensive town with a mortgage and big monthly dues in a 9 district.  While I’m not too worried about grades I am concerned about peer group and being in a place where failure is expected.

Being in a 1 or 2 district and paying for private school might make sense, but is it a better deal than just buying the big mortgage and getting in the good school district?

[Tuskalusa]

I live in an HCOL area.  My son is an eighth grader, and he will attend our local public school in the fall.

About a month ago, our family attended an open house at our sons future high school. I figured it was a good way to start the transition. Little did I know that the main purpose of the tour is to answer questions and “pitch” the school to families are considering private schools. All through the night, we overheard privileged conversations about how this school stacks up against the privates. It really felt like I was on a tour with the “Jones’s,” with a lot of people kicking around school names,rather than focusing on the tour.

[mm1970]

What’s the greatschools.org ranking for your district?  For my next move I am tempted to buy a cheap house outright in a 1 or 2 district or buy the cheapest condo in the most expensive town with a mortgage and big monthly dues in a 9 district.  While I’m not too worried about grades I am concerned about peer group and being in a place where failure is expected.

Being in a 1 or 2 district and paying for private school might make sense, but is it a better deal than just buying the big mortgage and getting in the good school district?

Or you could live in a 1 or 2 district and send your kids to the 1 or 2 school.  (That's what we are doing.) 

1 or 2 doesn't mean bad.  It could mean dangerous, it could mean poor, or in our case it could mean "diverse, with a large gap in test scores between the poor kids and the middle class kids".

[SailingOnASmallSailboat]

I think first you look at your kids. Are they happy? Learning? Interested and curious where they are? Leave it alone. If not, then you start investigating (if you can afford it, that is, or if the private school in question has good financial aid.

We live in a HCOL area with excellent public schools and a handful of excellent independent schools, a few of which I have taught at. I love that there are options for learners, almost no matter the focus. Our kids both graduated from public schools and are thriving at college (whew), but we did spend some time investigating independent schools for our younger one when social and academic life began falling apart. In the end, that kid switched to another public school (out of district, no cost except we needed to provide transport) which I stumbled upon as an option thanks to a discussion with friends.

The first school has a "better" rating, with more kids going to higher level colleges and such. It was a great spot for our first child, who is at a state school taking full advantage of every opportunity at his fingertips right outside of a major city. It was horrific for child #2. The pressure, the constant focus on which college to attend (seriously a conversation in 7th grade about choosing art (a passion) over Spanish and how it would affect college admissions), and the total lack of diversity would have crushed that child's being.

IMO, sticking with a public school that's working for your kid is nothing to feel guilty about. OTOH, if your kid is unhappy or needing a change and you're able to provide it and don't pursue it, that might be where guilt is not misplaced.

Everyone has different reasons for choosing schools for their kids. As there is no outcome (ie college admissions) guaranteed in any case, focus on the "now" rather than the unseen "later".

[Michael in ABQ]

For me, the reasons for private school real boil down to two questions: utility and religion/character development. The utility argument, I.e. that private schools are “better” than public is kind of hard to make, since it really depends on the school. I think the argument for private schools is much easier to make on Religious/ character development grounds. If raising your kids in a religious environment and/or heavy character development environment is important, then frankly the private religious schools win.

Now before the atheists out there get themselves all worked up, it is very possible for a non religious private or public school to be good at character development. I just think it’s more difficult and has to be more intentional. And obviously a public school in the US can’t teach a religious curriculum.

For us the choice was pretty easy. Religion and character development mattered to us, so the utility wasn’t a deciding factor.

Similar reasons for us. We had been homeschooling but when it became too much we went with a private Catholic school. It also follows the same type of classical education we were already using. Regardless of how they would perform academically in public school vs. private school it's far more important for us that they have a strong grounding in their faith and develop in an environment that aligns with our values.

[Gin1984]

I mean after all, there is plenty of evidence that the paths of the affluent and privileged does continue to build on itself and perpetuates success (a lot due to access and networks and so on)

Perhaps others are different, but I don't keep in contact with many people from K-12 so any "access and networks" associated with those years of schooling is minimal.

I went to private school for K-12, I still keep in contact with many and have tapped my network.  It actually may have an effect on my daughter getting into one of the selective high schools across the country from my school (they have connections between them).

[exterous]

My wife has taught at a high rated suburbia school, a poor inner city school and now a private school in a poorer area. The value really depends on your area. If your teacher is spending all their time on classroom management in crowded, under funded schools filled with kids with terrible home lives, your child will suffer without extra ordinary at home efforts and innate ability. If you have a good quality public school and a supportive home life the differences will likely be minimal. Private schools do often allow greater flexibility in curriculum which is a double edged sword. That will allow good quality teachers to thrive but there is less oversight for poor curriculum. My wife was able to learn about CI and then immediately implement it with great results the same year. She's done presentations and had other schools visit her classroom but interested public schools have desired changes mired in governance councils, curriculum managers, review boards, etc

[Cranky]

I've taught public and private, and my own kids went mostly to public, but two spent some time in private schools in high school.

I don't think that either public or private is automatically better, but any given school may be a better or worse fit for a given student.

I loved the tiny private school where I taught, and I think it was a great place to be a 7th/8th grader, with far fewer social issues that afflict kids that age - but because it was small there weren't a lot of extracurriculars and the exact same people were sitting at your table every day, for years and years. It was a great fit for some kids and not for others.

Also, private schools are not so eager to kick out troublemakers as you might think - tuition $ counts. A lot.

My kids went to the public schools in our low income neighborhood, and they learned a lot of things, not all of them academic. They all went to college and did fine. My oldest daughter was an exceptional student and ended up going away to a very challenging boarding program which was an excellent fit for her. One of my other girls was unhappy for social reasons and went to Catholic school for two years, and was not happier there so decided to go back to public school where at least she didn't have to attend mass weekly.

[FireLane]

I'm just one data point, but I went to public elementary school, public middle school, public high school, and public four-year college, and then I went to an Ivy League university where I got my master's degree. I'm now making six figures as a programmer and planning to retire next year.

I realize my story may not be typical, but anyone who says anything like this:

These parents say that their kids need to go to these schools because it is the only way for them to be able to get in a good college and be successful in life.

is just plain wrong. I'm proud of my public education and I feel it prepared me well for a career. There are many paths to success in life, and I still think it's true that people who are smart and motivated will find one of them.

We overestimate how much control we have over how our kids' lives turn out. Spending tons of money on private schools (or even public schools!) is just a symptom of that anxiety. It's a way for rich parents to reassure themselves that they did "everything they could". But the fact is you can only get out of education what you put into it, and a fancier school with ivy on the walls and iPads at the desks doesn't change that.

If you want your kids to succeed, the best advice I can give is to have a lot of books in your house. (No, seriously.) Feed their curiosity, teach them to wonder, encourage them to ask questions about everything they want to know. Cultivating that attitude will give them an advantage that no amount of money can buy.

[Bloop Bloop]

Yes, reading is the single best thing you can do - firstly reading to them when they are too young to read themselves, and then incentivising reading once they are old enough to read.

Actually probably the single best thing you can do for your children is to partner up with someone who's well-educated and intelligent himself/herself since a lot of these traits are hereditary.

Stuff like schooling is really just tinkering around the edges. Most of the damage/benefit has already accrued by the time the kid's old enough to go to school.

[nancyjnelson]

Here's another vote for the public schools - and even for lower-rated public schools (with caveats).  When I retired I relocated to an economically-depressed mill town in Wisconsin which was (and still is) rated 3/10 on GreatSchools.  When my daughter graduated from that high school three years later, she was accepted at the state university (UW-Madison) as a sophomore due to a couple of college-level courses she had taken (offered at the high school by the local community college) and her test results in her several AP courses.  My daughter got a good education at the same time she was exposed to and become friends with kids who were different than her - lower income immigrants (mostly Hmong and Mexicans), hunters (the school experienced a marked drop in attendance during the first few days of deer hunting season), and kids who didn't want to pursue higher education (a full time job at the local Quik Mart was a legitimate career choice).

Caveats:  The high school had very low levels of violence, and offered AP courses and local community courses at no extra cost to families.  But it also was a place where kids could slip through the cracks if they weren't motivated or had parents who were not involved in their education.

I also had several friends who sent their children to top-rated high schools (as in these schools made the list of the top 50 public high schools in the United States).  Their children did quite well, but when they got to university a great number of them ...fizzled.  The success of many of these kids depended on having a structure that would lead them down a specific path to academic success - they couldn't find their own path absent someone else in authority giving it to them.  They tested well, but had a problem negotiating life.

Caveats:  If your definition of success for your child is getting into the Ivy League and nothing else, a top-rated or private high school is often better equipped to provide its students with the cookie-cutter requirements needed to be considered for these universities.

Yes, I'm biased.

I also add my voice to those who have emphasized the importance of reading, and of parental involvement and support.

[joemandadman189]

Everyone's comments ring true in my mind, i dont think what school you attend ever has a big influence on your success, my wife and i went to small rural public schools and either small non prestigious liberal arts colleges or small satellite state schools, we are doing well, want for nothing, and are growing our stash.

The reason for our kids attending private school isnt to get them ahead, we live in an area with great public schools (school digger.com is great by the way).  It was the route we initially chose and planned on, and why we bought a home where we did. One has tested GT and the other is exhibiting the same traits, which is a blessing and comes with lots of challenges. Specialized GT schools exist and offer a better option for their primary education K-8. i couldn't imagine paying $20k+ a year for private school under normal circumstances, (not a safety, character, religious issue) unless you were FI 2-3x over and had nothing else to do with the money.

[zolotiyeruki]

One more vote here for parental support being by far the greatest factor in a student's success.

I attended public school in a highly-ranked district.  Except for a few classes (I'm looking at you, Mrs. Kien!) I pretty much skated through with straight A's.  Freshman year at college was a slap in the face, e.g. we covered a whole year's worth of high school chemistry in the first 3 weeks of Chem 105, and two years of physics in about two months.

In my experience, once you're in college, nobody cares where you went to high school, and once you have a job, nobody cares where you went to college.  What matters in college is A) your work ethic and B) you ability to learn.  Once you're in the field, what matters is A) your work ethic, reliability, integrity, and B) you ability to learn the job and do it well.  These are things that are most effectively taught at home.

Where schools *can* have an impact is in the optimizations:  my HS offered very few AP classes, certainly less than a dozen, and possibly as few as five. Had I had (or had I taken) the opportunity of more AP classes, I could have significantly reduced my course load at college and/or accelerated my graduation.

I wonder if all the conversation about private schools is more about parents making themselves feel good about their parenting efforts, rather than what is actually benefiting their kids.

IMO, rather than getting a second job to pay for your kids to get into a (possibly?) "better" school, a parent could make a much larger impact by taking fifteen minutes each day to read with/to their kid(s), teaching them life skills (car repair, budgeting), and doing fun, inexpensive things together (game night!).

[RFAAOATB]

Yes, reading is the single best thing you can do - firstly reading to them when they are too young to read themselves, and then incentivising reading once they are old enough to read.

Actually probably the single best thing you can do for your children is to partner up with someone who's well-educated and intelligent himself/herself since a lot of these traits are hereditary.

Stuff like schooling is really just tinkering around the edges. Most of the damage/benefit has already accrued by the time the kid's old enough to go to school.

I was going to say you usually can’t choose your parents but your parents can usually choose your school.

If having well educated parents is a plus, why isn’t having a well educated peer group in a highly rated school nearly as important?  You are choosing the pool of kids your child will have for friends, influences, and possible romantic partners.  By going to a problem school your kid might end up thinking problem kids are cool during their rebellious phase.  I think I want to minimize those odds.

[LiveLean]

I went to public school through 8th grade then got shipped off to an all-boys Catholic school since my parents thought public was too easy for me.

Shock to my system having to take religion courses. Got tested every day. Went from a D first quarter to As the rest of the way. To this day my easiest Jeopardy! category is anything bible related -- and I'm a sports nut who has worked as a sportswriter.

Other than that, the school didn't do much for me. I ended up at a quality college where I was reunited with many of my 8th grade public school pals.

My kids go to public school. At least my private school was $2,250 my senior year (1987). Even adjusting for inflation that does not come close to the typical $15K minimum price tags of today's school's.

[Bloop Bloop]

Yes, reading is the single best thing you can do - firstly reading to them when they are too young to read themselves, and then incentivising reading once they are old enough to read.

Actually probably the single best thing you can do for your children is to partner up with someone who's well-educated and intelligent himself/herself since a lot of these traits are hereditary.

Stuff like schooling is really just tinkering around the edges. Most of the damage/benefit has already accrued by the time the kid's old enough to go to school.

I was going to say you usually can’t choose your parents but your parents can usually choose your school.

If having well educated parents is a plus, why isn’t having a well educated peer group in a highly rated school nearly as important?  You are choosing the pool of kids your child will have for friends, influences, and possible romantic partners.  By going to a problem school your kid might end up thinking problem kids are cool during their rebellious phase.  I think I want to minimize those odds.

Having well-educated parents is a plus because the education transfers directly to the child via their actions. There's a more direct effect there than between the child and the childhood peer group. That said, your childhood peer group IS very important, but there are cheaper ways to encourage your child to take up with smart and sensible children than by using the crude filter of parental wealth. For example, if you are really minded to help your kids network and have the right associations, then you just give them your own.  That's free!

[Cranky]

If you think there aren’t problem kids in private school, you are going to be shocked to learn that there are plenty of rich kids with problems and poor motivation.

I’m also going to gift you with some interesting things are learned while helping my kids and many other kids apply to college - top tier schools are only going to take so many kids from a given high school. They are looking for diversity. You want your kid to be the standout kid from a less privileged school.

[HenryDavid]

Public schools are essential to maintaining a strong civic fabric. Education is much more than a commodity. It’s an apprenticeship to living in civil society.

As for higher-ed preparation, the point about having books in your house, showing you are a life-long learner, and being sure your kids meet and know people who revelled in their own higher education and improved their lives with it . . .  these things count enormously.

[jinga nation]

We have good friends (a couple).
The wife went to public schools. In high school was on the tennis team. Parents were very involved in her schooling. She says the biggest headache in school was not getting into petty fights or into bad company, which is why she had a small group of close friends. School was a 5-6/10 rated.

The husband went to a prominent private school, in the same city as wife's school. He was on the tennis team. His mum was very involved in his schooling. He says the biggest issue in his school was drugs, many popular and smart kids partaked. He said there was a lot of peer pressure but he managed to stay out if it.

They both went to the same state university, she was on the college tennis team. They both got the same degree. They met working in the same company, both in the same job title.

She is a risk taker and go-getter, he is not but he's good at making good client relationships. They both attribute this to their public vs private schooling.

He says that if he had to go it all again, he'd pick public schools. She says their children might go to a private school, but is willing to try out the local public school first.

Private schools are ridiculous in my area, starting at $15k for kindergarten, going up to $25k for 12th grade.

One school said the quoted fees were 78% of actual, and that parents have to donate the other 22%. WTF. This is in America.

[Channel-Z]

With the exception of one, our major private high schools have turned into football factories. But otherwise, parents justify spending money on private schools as a way to network with affluent people. It's not necessarily about getting into the right university, it's about knowing the right people for opportunities afterward.

[tooqk4u22]

So in this particular sports circle of 17 families, 3 just committed to a private school bringing the total to 11 of 17 going to private school.  Some I get given the districts they live in but others are in pretty good districts.   The one school where most seem to be attending is about $25k when all added up.   

For the record I have no intention of going this route.  I believe too that the most important factor is involved parents and there are circumstances where private vs. public makes sense.  But this circle, and others I am around, it does seem less about circumstance and values and more about the keeping up and comparisons with others. To each their own. 

[Bloop Bloop]

With the exception of one, our major private high schools have turned into football factories. But otherwise, parents justify spending money on private schools as a way to network with affluent people. It's not necessarily about getting into the right university, it's about knowing the right people for opportunities afterward.

For those parents, they ought to know that if networking is that important then it's more efficient and cheaper to go out and do it yourself through your professional circle. If you can't do that then your kids probably won't be transmitted any useful skills through private school either. Private schools are really just a conspicuous consumption signifier for the rich and the shame is that a lot of middle-class families get sucked in thinking that it makes an iota of difference. It's like sneaking into the country club on a guest pass. Except this time around you get to assuage your guilt that perhaps you're not reading enough to your kids or taking them on enough outings or giving them a holistic education yourself.

I don't mind conspicuous consumption (if that's your thing) but at least recognise it for what it is and embrace it.

[Nightwatchman9270]

I send my kid to private school.  The public schools around me are mediocre at best.  About a third of the kids don't graduate high school.  Less than half go to college. 10-15% of the girls are pregnant by 21.  I don't believe in "connections" but I do believe her peers have slightly better aspirations than a lot of the kids that go to the public schools she is zoned for.  I went to public school and did fine but I want my daughter to have every opportunity to succeed in life.  If that sounds elitist, fine.  I'd love it if I didn't have to spend a lot on schooling but that's sometimes the trade-off in an otherwise VLCOL area.  I'll give up fancy organic coffee and cage free eggs ina heartbeat to make it happen.