Income Commentary

[Dicey]

OK, enough foaming my own thread :)

Never heard that expression before, but whatever it means, I don't think you're doing it. I looked around for updates, as promised earlier, and found nothing. I'm glad to hear you're okay, and I'm sorry about the losses suffered by everyone in Texas. Please keep the updates coming.

[obstinate]

On average, the bottom 50% of the income distribution has not gotten a raise in the last twenty years. They've been averaging about 2% per year after you factor in increases in social welfare. So it's great for everyone who is making more! But it's not surprising that some folks feel otherwise: half of Americans are in a different boat.

[Kyle Schuant]

I became self-employed. Net* income is about the same, but life is better.

Past the necessities of basic food and shelter, etc, the purpose of raising income, aside from vanity, is improving my life. So if income drops or stays the same but life is better, its purpose is served.

*That is, when considering that we no longer need childcare, transport costs are down, etc.

[undercover]

At my IRL job, I'm making more than ever, but I'm not going to give them more money than I used to for their work.  They want to promote and sell out more, but I'm having none of any of that... 

The whole idea of "selling out" doesn't make sense. No one dislikes money, and everyone needs a certain amount of it. A lot of 'tubers were hit hard by the "adpocalpyse". A lot weren't though and it's business as usual for them. Yes, it's mildly annoying to see every other creator pushing their own "merch" and having sponsored videos, but it's the price that we pay for "free" content since the ad-driven model is the best way to deliver democratized content.

If YouTube suddenly changed to subscription based only, there would be a huge drop off in views and, thus, creators. Creators would also make less money overall and would still probably want to increase their income through tasteful ads, Patreon, and merchandise. I don't see it as selling out as much as being entrepreneurial and finding ways to guarantee you can keep doing what you love. Also, the most tasteful of creators never do more than they need to. If they're making plenty of money through YouTube ads alone, they don't push Patreon or the other methods nearly as hard as if they're a smaller operation just getting by.

As streaming gets more popular in general, people are just more aware of the fact that there are multiple ways to monetize their content. Can't blame them for it. I would bet most of them are making more than they were as well. It's all anecdotal.

[Inaya]

I think my income has pretty much peaked, outside of annual raises that beat inflation (but not by a huge margin). While I would (of course) love more money, it's pretty unlikely. I'm overpaid for what I do, and the benefits are pretty darn good.

There has been less and less money in blogging for years. The most successful bloggers are those who have multiple avenues for money in addition to their ad revenue and affiliate links (Patreon, Kickstarter, merchandise, paid product reviews, etc.). I know of one blogger who runs two successful blogs, but makes less on them combined now than her bigger blog did on its own 6 years ago.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

This comment might take this thread way off topic (aka 'foaming' a thread) but I have found it personally interesting for my ER thoughts.  During this difficult time for Houstonians, having 'an employer' is a significant leg up.  I would probably have been OK and maybe only slightly more stressed out had I chosen ER or side hustle, but right now, although I have not been at work all week, I am in communication with a network of colleagues that are helping each other.  We are offering each other alternatives above and beyond what is available in neighboring communities or government provided - although that is a great safety net and I'm not criticizing.  It's just that I  am honestly more than happy if a family of a coworker needs to stay with us, but there are several others that have already taken them in.  In addition, the paycheck will show up regularly although I'm not there, the health coverage is still what it always was...  it is just not fair how great the disparity is between the employed and ER would be in a situation like this.  When 'what if everyone became frugal' became the norm, then maybe this will work itself out, but sure if that is happening anytime soon enough...

[Inaya]

This comment might take this thread way off topic (aka 'foaming' a thread) but I have found it personally interesting for my ER thoughts.  During this difficult time for Houstonians, having 'an employer' is a significant leg up.  I would probably have been OK and maybe only slightly more stressed out had I chosen ER or side hustle, but right now, although I have not been at work all week, I am in communication with a network of colleagues that are helping each other.  We are offering each other alternatives above and beyond what is available in neighboring communities or government provided - although that is a great safety net and I'm not criticizing.  It's just that I  am honestly more than happy if a family of a coworker needs to stay with us, but there are several others that have already taken them in.  In addition, the paycheck will show up regularly although I'm not there, the health coverage is still what it always was...  it is just not fair how great the disparity is between the employed and ER would be in a situation like this.  When 'what if everyone became frugal' became the norm, then maybe this will work itself out, but sure if that is happening anytime soon enough...

ER may help drive your decision whether to evacuate. I keep hearing people say, "Well why didn't they just evacuate before the storm  got there?" Well if you'll lose money by not being at your job, or even risk losing your job if you don't show up--you're going  to be much less likely to evacuate, even with a mandatory evacuation order. You could argue that ER is better in an emergency situation like this because you already have enough to worry about (getting to safety, having supplies, taking care of your family, worrying about pets, worrying about friends, etc.) without also wondering if you'll have a job at the end of it.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

This comment might take this thread way off topic (aka 'foaming' a thread) but I have found it personally interesting for my ER thoughts.  During this difficult time for Houstonians, having 'an employer' is a significant leg up.  I would probably have been OK and maybe only slightly more stressed out had I chosen ER or side hustle, but right now, although I have not been at work all week, I am in communication with a network of colleagues that are helping each other.  We are offering each other alternatives above and beyond what is available in neighboring communities or government provided - although that is a great safety net and I'm not criticizing.  It's just that I  am honestly more than happy if a family of a coworker needs to stay with us, but there are several others that have already taken them in.  In addition, the paycheck will show up regularly although I'm not there, the health coverage is still what it always was...  it is just not fair how great the disparity is between the employed and ER would be in a situation like this.  When 'what if everyone became frugal' became the norm, then maybe this will work itself out, but sure if that is happening anytime soon enough...

ER may help drive your decision whether to evacuate. I keep hearing people say, "Well why didn't they just evacuate before the storm  got there?" Well if you'll lose money by not being at your job, or even risk losing your job if you don't show up--you're going  to be much less likely to evacuate, even with a mandatory evacuation order. You could argue that ER is better in an emergency situation like this because you already have enough to worry about (getting to safety, having supplies, taking care of your family, worrying about pets, worrying about friends, etc.) without also wondering if you'll have a job at the end of it.

IRL I'd be the opposite personally, which is the reason behind my post.  As FIRE, I would be worried about my house (minimizing short run negative financial impact and long run expensive problems to fix, as well as having to pay to evacuate).  OTOH, being able to evacuate (maybe having to take vacation or sick days), meanwhile continued pay and benefits, is a luxury provided by being an employee.  I don't know 100%, but on the 'being employed' side, people are being treated well with additional help beyond personal insurance and government assistance (which is pretty bare-bones).

[Laura33]

This comment might take this thread way off topic (aka 'foaming' a thread) but I have found it personally interesting for my ER thoughts.  During this difficult time for Houstonians, having 'an employer' is a significant leg up.  I would probably have been OK and maybe only slightly more stressed out had I chosen ER or side hustle, but right now, although I have not been at work all week, I am in communication with a network of colleagues that are helping each other.  We are offering each other alternatives above and beyond what is available in neighboring communities or government provided - although that is a great safety net and I'm not criticizing.  It's just that I  am honestly more than happy if a family of a coworker needs to stay with us, but there are several others that have already taken them in.  In addition, the paycheck will show up regularly although I'm not there, the health coverage is still what it always was...  it is just not fair how great the disparity is between the employed and ER would be in a situation like this.  When 'what if everyone became frugal' became the norm, then maybe this will work itself out, but sure if that is happening anytime soon enough...

ER may help drive your decision whether to evacuate. I keep hearing people say, "Well why didn't they just evacuate before the storm  got there?" Well if you'll lose money by not being at your job, or even risk losing your job if you don't show up--you're going  to be much less likely to evacuate, even with a mandatory evacuation order. You could argue that ER is better in an emergency situation like this because you already have enough to worry about (getting to safety, having supplies, taking care of your family, worrying about pets, worrying about friends, etc.) without also wondering if you'll have a job at the end of it.

IRL I'd be the opposite personally, which is the reason behind my post.  As FIRE, I would be worried about my house (minimizing short run negative financial impact and long run expensive problems to fix, as well as having to pay to evacuate).  OTOH, being able to evacuate (maybe having to take vacation or sick days), meanwhile continued pay and benefits, is a luxury provided by being an employee.  I don't know 100%, but on the 'being employed' side, people are being treated well with additional help beyond personal insurance and government assistance (which is pretty bare-bones).

Interesting.  I think for me personally, I am with EV2020.  In fact, I was texting with a client in Houston to make sure she is ok, and when I mentioned that my brother was in the Barker Dam overflow zone, she immediately offered him a place to stay if he needed to evacuate.  I would never have known people like that if I weren't employed.

But at the same time, I am also an introvert, so for me, the forced interaction of the job expands my social circle.  The reality is that my brother didn't even come close to needing that help, because my SIL is a huge extrovert and always joining and doing and helping, and so as a result of that knows many, many people who would have helped had she needed it.  So I guess it depends on your personality.

Also on the work you do -- my clients tend to be national, so my work demands don't necessarily stop because of local events.

[Inaya]

This comment might take this thread way off topic (aka 'foaming' a thread) but I have found it personally interesting for my ER thoughts.  During this difficult time for Houstonians, having 'an employer' is a significant leg up.  I would probably have been OK and maybe only slightly more stressed out had I chosen ER or side hustle, but right now, although I have not been at work all week, I am in communication with a network of colleagues that are helping each other.  We are offering each other alternatives above and beyond what is available in neighboring communities or government provided - although that is a great safety net and I'm not criticizing.  It's just that I  am honestly more than happy if a family of a coworker needs to stay with us, but there are several others that have already taken them in.  In addition, the paycheck will show up regularly although I'm not there, the health coverage is still what it always was...  it is just not fair how great the disparity is between the employed and ER would be in a situation like this.  When 'what if everyone became frugal' became the norm, then maybe this will work itself out, but sure if that is happening anytime soon enough...

ER may help drive your decision whether to evacuate. I keep hearing people say, "Well why didn't they just evacuate before the storm  got there?" Well if you'll lose money by not being at your job, or even risk losing your job if you don't show up--you're going  to be much less likely to evacuate, even with a mandatory evacuation order. You could argue that ER is better in an emergency situation like this because you already have enough to worry about (getting to safety, having supplies, taking care of your family, worrying about pets, worrying about friends, etc.) without also wondering if you'll have a job at the end of it.

IRL I'd be the opposite personally, which is the reason behind my post.  As FIRE, I would be worried about my house (minimizing short run negative financial impact and long run expensive problems to fix, as well as having to pay to evacuate).  OTOH, being able to evacuate (maybe having to take vacation or sick days), meanwhile continued pay and benefits, is a luxury provided by being an employee.  I don't know 100%, but on the 'being employed' side, people are being treated well with additional help beyond personal insurance and government assistance (which is pretty bare-bones).

Low-wage and service workers usually don't have much in the way of benefits or vacation/sick days. Employers often schedule them for 30 or fewer hours per week so they don't have to provide federally mandated benefits. I know people who have had to go to their foodservice jobs while sick (!!!) because they'll be fired otherwise. This varies by company, of course, but I'd say many workers in that category would have to choose between evacuating or losing their jobs.


In terms of social circles, I am very introverted, but I have a fairly sizeable network all over the country due to my activity in online groups. I believe it was in one of my textbooks I read that in our highly networked world, looser and larger networks (e.g., Internet groups) are becoming as important as tightly knit and smaller ones (e.g., family, close friends, work).

[Paul der Krake]

Yes, W-2 employees have it better in times of crisis. This is why self-employment income needs to be higher than the equivalent salaried wage.

If one or two weeks of non-work causes a lot of pain, either:
1) you are not charging enough for your services
2) you are not setting aside enough for the ups and downs
3) the market for that particular service is stacked in favor of salaried employment for whatever reason(s), and you should consider switching