Any parents retire with teenagers in school?

[Adam Zapple]

Hi Everyone,

I just discovered MMM a couple weeks ago and am loving this community.  I was wondering if any of you retired while your kids were middle or high school aged?  A little background about me...I'm a 33 year old married man with a 3 year old and another one on the way in a month.  I have a tentative goal to retire in a little over 10 years using retirement savings accounts, home equity, a 50% pension that kicks in when I turn 55 and my wife's and my own social security later on in life.  But, like many people, I have a few hang-ups on early retirement and here they are:

1)  I want to provide a college education for my children.  This was something my parents did for me, as did my wife's parents.  I feel like not providing my children the same opportunities I had just because I don't want to work anymore would be shirking a parental responsibility that I put a high value on.  We are diligent with our college savings now but probably would not be able to save enough for 2 children to attend college before retirement without student loans.  Our parents were upper middle class and very hard working people that put their children's needs above their own.

2)  Retiring would mean moving to another part of the country where my then 10 and 13 year old kids will not know anyone.  I know that people do this all the time but again, I think my wife and I would feel a sense of guilt doing this.  The cost of living in the area we now live is simply way too high to sustain an early retirement, not to mention it is a very high-paced and high-stress location that we will want to leave to enjoy retirement.

I was wondering if anyone else had successfully overcome these types of problems and how you did it?  Any advice or words of wisdom would be much appreciated!  Thanks.

[Spectra]

I'm 31 and will retire by 40. So I have the same sort of questions but had a comment.

My parents helped me marginally with college but pretty much my wife and I paid for it and I am so thankful to my parents for not pushing money on me. I worked very hard in college to earn a living and I had a factory job that led to great learning in chemistry and then spent 3 years TA'ing chemistry. I got a PhD in chemistry and the learning the I acquired in those jobs helped me excelled more and more. When I went out into the world for interviews the majority of attention was placed on those jobs as well as community service I provided as well.

On the other hand my younger brother has been financial dependent on my parents for years even though he has a wife and children. and now he is 28 and just now starting to get his act together while meandering from major to major.

[Thegoblinchief]

My target FIRE date will be when my kids are 19, 21, and 22. Possible future kids would be younger, of course, since we haven't had them yet ;)

We have yet to decide what we want to do with college, but after my DW and I's experience, we will likely push them towards trades and/or military before college.

It's really hard to say what will happen to the college bubble by then, but college straight out of high school is not the only way to do it, and may not be the best way depending on the kid. Regardless, I won't let them accrue any debt. If that means helping, so be it, but I'd much rather have them work their way through it as best they can.

[Cheddar Stacker]

I feel like not providing my children the same opportunities I had just because I don't want to work anymore would be shirking a parental responsibility that I put a high value on. 

First, welcome to the forums and the MMM community. I'm relatively new as well and very happy to have found it, and I'm in a somewhat similar situation to you with a couple small kids and a target retirement date of "sometime during their middle/high school years".

Providing college tuition is commendable, but in my opinion it is far from a parental responsibility as you put it. I hope and plan to be able to provide this for my children, but I'd like to get out of the 9-5 grind before fully saving for it. I also agree with many on the forum that college kids should be vested, meaning they need a stake in the game. Maybe you pay half and they pay half via scholarship, work, student loans. This should make them take their studies more seriously if they aren't hyper focused students already.

As far as the move to a new location, you'll have to figure it out when you get there but it could be a great thing for the kids as well. New location, new perspective, new social circles, these could all be exactly what they need at that point in their lives. I wouldn't worry about it until you reach the landmark. Maybe working 2 more years puts college costs in reach, and allows you to wait until they're in college before making your big move.

[yahui168]

I'm 37 and started my daughter's 529 plan when she was born 5 years ago. I will likely be able to fund her undergrad studies; however, I expect her to work during school (and after) to pay me back all or a substantial portion. This way we're using tax advantaged funds to help pay for education and my daughter learns to choose and spend wisely while she's in school. Any unused funds can be used for grandchildren.

[MrsPete]

Hangup #1:  This is a controversial topic on this board, but it makes perfect sense to me that parents should pay for their academic-minded, motivated children's college education.  After all, I am doing this right now out of current earnings (though I do anticipate being required to dip into savings once I have two children in college simultaneously).  In contrast, paying for college on what my kids can earn just out of high school would be a monumental feat -- not impossible, but way more work than it is for me.  That they have a degree is important to me, and I'm willing to work a couple more years to insure that they're able to finish college and start their professional lives without debt.  My oldest is incredibly grateful that she has the opportunity to go to school, and she's doing a great job progressing towards her nursing degree.   

Hangup #2:  I wouldn't feel badly about moving and uprooting the children.  I notice that you anticipate your oldest will be 13 when you retire.  13-14 is when most students begin high school.  I'd try to time it so that your move would coincide with your oldest's entrance into high school -- that way he'd be one of many new students on Day 1. 

[secondcor521]

My FIRE plan involved staying put in my house and saving for my kids' college before I left my job.  Like the OP, I was not able in good conscience able to leave work before funding their college.  My parents provided for my college education and also lived in the same place so I was able to concentrate on school and sports instead of moving.  My ex moved a lot when she was a kid, though, and I can see she developed some excellent skills from that experience.  But she didn't like it.

I hit my FIRE point last July, but am working a little more just because all things considered I have a pretty good job.  One of the things that has changed my mind a little bit is wanting to be generous with my kids' education.  I would hate to retire and be on a budget, and have one of my kids get an opportunity to travel, or need a nicer instrument, or participate in an expensive sport and have me say, "Well, it's not in the budget, so sorry" -- when I could just work another year or two and have that really not ever be a problem.

[Cheddar Stacker]

My FIRE plan involved staying put in my house and saving for my kids' college before I left my job.  Like the OP, I was not able in good conscience able to leave work before funding their college.  My parents provided for my college education and also lived in the same place so I was able to concentrate on school and sports instead of moving.  My ex moved a lot when she was a kid, though, and I can see she developed some excellent skills from that experience.  But she didn't like it.

I hit my FIRE point last July, but am working a little more just because all things considered I have a pretty good job.  One of the things that has changed my mind a little bit is wanting to be generous with my kids' education.  I would hate to retire and be on a budget, and have one of my kids get an opportunity to travel, or need a nicer instrument, or participate in an expensive sport and have me say, "Well, it's not in the budget, so sorry" -- when I could just work another year or two and have that really not ever be a problem.

Congrats on reaching FIRE. Good luck adding your safety margin.

[soccerluvof4]

I am glad someone started this thread as its been my, for lack of better words biggest struggle. I am 49 and in ER BUT my wife is 45 and basically works 25-30 hrs a week running our business of 22 years by her choice 100% i wanted to be done 2 years ago together.  We came up with a plan we both want to  be retired together when  I am 52 but I think it will be 54 if the business keeps going as is.

 I have 4 kids in school, One a freshman in HS, one in 8th , one in 4th and one in 2nd. Since our business is not one that really has assets and is "not as stable" as it was, but still pays a great income, we have decide that with me getting the extra accelerated 401k now to pound as much money away in that as well as building up or retirement portfolio and selling unused assets like our Cabin, toys etc.. When the 2 oldest graduate from High School down size to a house half the size or rent till the other 2 graduate from HS but I would prefer to buy a house we would then retire in but want to stay in the school district by choice. We also at that time would not hesitate to move if we had too.  We are doing the best as we can contributing to 529's and keep the kids informed about what there responsibilities are but also want them to understand that they will have some responsibility as well. With the monies we spend for them to travel around the country in select sports there college would of been fully paid so its a trade off and they are reminded of that often.  We right now have saved enough to cover at least 2 years of an in state college  but keep adding and at 52 probably 3 , if i we we keep business going till 54 than 4 years. If they get money for grades or sports we will evaluate obviously at that time whats best with them.  So like i said we just keep them informed.  The biggest key is the business and how long that lasts. One big account away from making life alot easier and getting to goal alot faster or one major account away from shutting the door and taking the cash flow and being done., selling the house and then all 4 would switch schools as we would leave the state. To live where we are the housing is stupid money as are the taxes so the change would happen and I think change is good for kids anyhow.  Not to mention that with the sports there in an travel they are a bit more secure with themselves even the younger ones.  I will say that if you make you life style change to a more MM way now it will be alot easier. We are glad we found and made this decision better late than sorry but we could of been alot smarter and had no issues if we didn't caught up in the bigger house and all the other wasteful spending we did. Its amazing how a few tweaks here and there really make a difference and add up but we still have alot of work to do.

[happy]

Hi and welcome Mr JL,

With a 16 and 18 year old, these are issues  I also grapple with.

Firstly, later teens are much more expensive than 10 and 13 year olds, so make sure you factor this in. Of course you'll have a few years to whip them into mustachian shape.

Then as to paying for tertiary education: as a mustachian, I think its wise to explore and evaluate all options and not just go for the "status" decision.  From hanging on these boards for a while, it seems in the US there are a wide variety of costs as well as some scholarships. So it is worth figuring what is the most cost effective option. After some thought, since my kids had thus far not contributed too much with regard to part-time jobs, I decided I would expect some sort of co-payment from my kids. They would be subsidised enough to allow them to do what they had set their heart on , and whilst I expect them to earn some money, I would not want this to be so onerous that it interfered with study. In Australia, I could pay upfront for their uni degree. Or the government will lend the student the money (called HECS), and they pay it back at a modest rate once they earn 50k or more a year. This arrangement is not onerous and really the only good reason for paying it up front is the status, so I decided not to.

As far as moving to retire goes I'm also in a vaguely similar dilemma. Again I think its entirely personal with regard to moving kids around. If you were going to do it, then now is a better time than later on: teens get precious about their peer group, and the final years of high school here are onerous and most parents I know avoid moving if they can for the last 2 years of high school. My 18 yearold has just finished those years, and my 16 year old is just embarking on that period. However if I sold my house and downsized, I'd be just able to retire. It doesn't make sense to downsize/move right now ( better to wait until the nest is empty, and also have some idea of where they are headed). The numbers don't stack for selling and renting either. Several factors which are not related to the FI number itself will dovetail in just under 5 years (1785 days or so!) making this the optimal time to stop work. If circumstances deteriorated irrevocably at work, then I would consider retiring once the 16 year old finishes high school in 2 years. I've been round and round with this and every now and then I'm tempted to do something radical and chuck it all in now, but I will be independently poor, and the numbers are soooo much better if I wait, as well as optimising family wellbeing.
 

[Nords]

But, like many people, I have a few hang-ups on early retirement and here they are:

You sure do.  They're your hangups, not your kids' hangups.  The best way to resolve the issue is to decide how much longer you're willing to work for your goals-- and keep in mind that they may not be your kids' goals. 

While your kids may be happy that you're paying for their college education, your financial support may not be the best way to inspire their motivation.  A compromise could be "We'll pay for the first couple years at community college/State U, but after that you're on your own!"

You could frame the relocation discussion with their input.  "Kids, when I quit my job we can live in a lower-cost area and I'll have more time to spend with you.  Or we can stay in this home until you graduate from high school, but I'll have to work four more years and won't have as much time to be with you guys.  We parents have the tiebreaker vote, but how do you feel about this?"

You may discover that family is more important to them than friends.  I certainly felt that way.

[ModernIncantations]

I graduated from a traditionally expensive college 3 years ago without ever taking out a loan and having had minimal help from my parents.
In short the keys are:

• Go to the best state school in a state with a state-run college scholarship
• Obtain an on campus job
• Become a dormitory R.A. (free housing, because housing costs are no joke) Freshmen R.A.s often get free meal plans as well
• Ignore your campus meal plan. It's a ripoff. Learn how to cook
• Go to summer school combined with a (preferably*) paid internship
• Don't own a car if you don't have to
• Apply to scholarships. Ones through parents' companies are your best bet. Seriously this is easy money if you can write at all. If not, practice. It's worth it. Being a minority means college should be free if you can type.

*quality of internship is more important than getting paid. an unpaid internship kick started my own career

Sometimes having 2-3 jobs while working on an engineering degree does suck. However, all of those commitments are aware that your school comes first and they will budge if you need them to. Using these strategies I was able to get through 4.5 yrs of college using about $7,000 of my parent's funds. That was only for the first year. My school's website estimated the full costs of my entire degree at $74,250 ($16,500 * 4.5).

I left college with $2,000 in my bank account. Good luck! If you have smart kids it shouldn't be a problem.

[soccerluvof4]

I graduated from a traditionally expensive college 3 years ago without ever taking out a loan and having had minimal help from my parents.
In short the keys are:

• Go to the best state school in a state with a state-run college scholarship
• Obtain an on campus job
• Become a dormitory R.A. (free housing, because housing costs are no joke) Freshmen R.A.s often get free meal plans as well
• Ignore your campus meal plan. It's a ripoff. Learn how to cook
• Go to summer school combined with a (preferably*) paid internship

some good work there and I will be sharing that with my kids!  They will get some money from us but need to understand and do the things as you stated!

• Don't own a car if you don't have to
• Apply to scholarships. Ones through parents' companies are your best bet. Seriously this is easy money if you can write at all. If not, practice. It's worth it. Being a minority means college should be free if you can type.

*quality of internship is more important than getting paid. an unpaid internship kick started my own career

Sometimes having 2-3 jobs while working on an engineering degree does suck. However, all of those commitments are aware that your school comes first and they will budge if you need them to. Using these strategies I was able to get through 4.5 yrs of college using about $7,000 of my parent's funds. That was only for the first year. My school's website estimated the full costs of my entire degree at $74,250 ($16,500 * 4.5).

I left college with $2,000 in my bank account. Good luck! If you have smart kids it shouldn't be a problem.

[MrsPete]

I graduated from a traditionally expensive college 3 years ago without ever taking out a loan and having had minimal help from my parents.
In short the keys are:

• Go to the best state school in a state with a state-run college scholarship
• Obtain an on campus job
• Become a dormitory R.A. (free housing, because housing costs are no joke) Freshmen R.A.s often get free meal plans as well
• Ignore your campus meal plan. It's a ripoff. Learn how to cook
• Go to summer school combined with a (preferably*) paid internship
• Don't own a car if you don't have to
• Apply to scholarships. Ones through parents' companies are your best bet. Seriously this is easy money if you can write at all. If not, practice. It's worth it. Being a minority means college should be free if you can type.

*quality of internship is more important than getting paid. an unpaid internship kick started my own career

Sometimes having 2-3 jobs while working on an engineering degree does suck. However, all of those commitments are aware that your school comes first and they will budge if you need them to. Using these strategies I was able to get through 4.5 yrs of college using about $7,000 of my parent's funds. That was only for the first year. My school's website estimated the full costs of my entire degree at $74,250 ($16,500 * 4.5).

I left college with $2,000 in my bank account. Good luck! If you have smart kids it shouldn't be a problem.

This is all great -- if you can make it happen. 

- Everyone, even the smart, motivated kids who really work at it, won't end up with a scholarship.  I've been teaching high school seniors for years, and MOST kids don't get any scholarship money.  My own daughter has two scholarships that pay about 50% of her education -- she was the #2 scholarship winner in her graduating class.  The kids who still get "full rides" tend to be entering the military.  Also some majors are scholarship-heavy, whereas others aren't; for example, a strong student heading into teaching or nursing will likely get something, whereas a business or art major with the same grades will be paying full priced tuition.  Scholarships aren't what they were a decade ago.

- At some schools they can't give away the RA jobs, whereas at other schools getting one is competitive.  I was an RA in college, and at my school girls applied in droves, while only a handful of guys applied; thus, it was easy for a guy to get the job . . . a girl, not so much.  It was a godsend to a poor kid like me. 

- At most schools, if you live in a dorm (which an RA likely does), you have to have a meal plan.  They don't want to encourage kids to bring small appliances to their rooms.  My daughter tells me that recently a kid set off the dorm's fire alarm cooking a potato in the lobby microwave.  Clearly everyone isn't ready to cook (and someone's mama should be ashamed of sending him off to school that unprepared). 

- Internships are plentiful in some majors, not so much in others.  My husband hires engineering interns all the time -- and they're paid pretty well (for college students).  In contrast, my daughter'll be doing nursing clinicals, which are essentially internships, but they ARE her classes, and she'll have zero chance of being paid. 

- Jobs on campus are great, especially for younger students who don't have cars.  Because my daughter is a CNA, she works at the on-campus health center -- she loves that they are flexible with her classes, and she can walk to work.  But most on campus jobs (i.e., the library, assisting the secretary of a certain department, etc.) are work study, and you have to qualify for that through the FAFSA form.  I had those jobs, and it was a great thing for me -- but I was a poor kid who got everything FAFSA had to offer. 

I don't think your advice is bad at all, but you're implying that with a bit of gumption a person can make all these things happen -- and that's just not true.  Everyone can do something (including lots of things beyond your list), but to do all these things required both luck and ability, and everyone won't be in the position to do as well as you did. 

[ModernIncantations]

I don't take a victim's attitude towards this. I think that anyone can make this happen. It may come down to changing schools, majors, or even states. If something absolutely cannot be accomplished for a reasonable price, then the goal itself should change.

Even with a reasonable goal, getting out of college with a valuable degree for free cannot be accomplished with low hanging fruit alone, and thus, like early retirement, is not suitable for every temperament. I do believe that it is the temperament and not the universe that would cause someone to fall short, however.

- Everyone, even the smart, motivated kids who really work at it, won't end up with a scholarship.  I've been teaching high school seniors for years, and MOST kids don't get any scholarship money.  My own daughter has two scholarships that pay about 50% of her education -- she was the #2 scholarship winner in her graduating class.  The kids who still get "full rides" tend to be entering the military.  Also some majors are scholarship-heavy, whereas others aren't; for example, a strong student heading into teaching or nursing will likely get something, whereas a business or art major with the same grades will be paying full priced tuition.  Scholarships aren't what they were a decade ago.

This will require dozens of hours of effort. I refuse to believe that anyone, and I mean anyone, cannot get at least one scholarship; even if it is $500. It's definitely easier for some, but probably worthwhile for all.

- At some schools they can't give away the RA jobs, whereas at other schools getting one is competitive.  I was an RA in college, and at my school girls applied in droves, while only a handful of guys applied; thus, it was easy for a guy to get the job . . . a girl, not so much.  It was a godsend to a poor kid like me. 

My school was incredibly competitive for RA jobs. I spent time, long before I needed the job, securing great recommendations from my RAs and RA's manager. Crappy RA benefits, however, are a show-stopper and require a pivot in strategy.

- At most schools, if you live in a dorm (which an RA likely does), you have to have a meal plan.  They don't want to encourage kids to bring small appliances to their rooms.  My daughter tells me that recently a kid set off the dorm's fire alarm cooking a potato in the lobby microwave.  Clearly everyone isn't ready to cook (and someone's mama should be ashamed of sending him off to school that unprepared). 

Required meal plans are usually paid-for or subsidized. Exceptions can likely be made with the housing higher ups if you can demonstrate substitute resident interaction.

- Internships are plentiful in some majors, not so much in others.  My husband hires engineering interns all the time -- and they're paid pretty well (for college students).  In contrast, my daughter'll be doing nursing clinicals, which are essentially internships, but they ARE her classes, and she'll have zero chance of being paid. 

My number 1 tip is become an engineer instead. Medical professions do indeed require the burden of special internships -- ones that won't even let you have additional jobs! Medical school is an outlier though and would require different strategies to lower cost. I'll bet there's a blog on this.

- Jobs on campus are great, especially for younger students who don't have cars.  Because my daughter is a CNA, she works at the on-campus health center -- she loves that they are flexible with her classes, and she can walk to work.  But most on campus jobs (i.e., the library, assisting the secretary of a certain department, etc.) are work study, and you have to qualify for that through the FAFSA form.  I had those jobs, and it was a great thing for me -- but I was a poor kid who got everything FAFSA had to offer. 

Yep they rock. If you find that you don't qualify this is when you must change strategies again. Research universities have many different organizations associated with them that all require things like web development, graphic design, administrative assisting, etc. As they are not actually part of the university they are largely exempt from these silly rules. They are, however, on-campus or nearby. If all else fails, college towns tend to be a wealth of low-wage opportunity. The internet is also an amazing beast that is accessible from any campus.

[2527]

This thought is a contrary to general thinking on this website, but I think a person can create a healthy and happy mindset and continue working.  I think it is possible to be financially independent and happy working.  Do I wish there were a nice-paying 20 hour a week job on my front doorstep?  Yes.  But, there isn't one.  So I keep working at my 40 hour one, and do it in a happy way. 

[AccidentalMiser]

All I can say is that I'm thankful we had our children early.  (We're 46, our youngest is almost 20.)

We have provided room, board, transportation and moral support for our kids while the have been in college.  They have paid for tuition and books via working, scholarships, internships, loans, gifts, etc.

This arrangement has worked out well for our family.  We've used community colleges and state schools very successfully.

[soccerluvof4]

All I can say is that I'm thankful we had our children early.  (We're 46, our youngest is almost 20.)

We have provided room, board, transportation and moral support for our kids while the have been in college.  They have paid for tuition and books via working, scholarships, internships, loans, gifts, etc.

This arrangement has worked out well for our family.  We've used community colleges and state schools very successfully.

I know many that feel exactly the way you do and totally respect that. I on the other hand am 49 and have a 14,13,9,8 year old and for us this works. The kids do keep us young and on the go.  We were in a better financial situation to have kids and I love what we have as a family of 6. I was married before and have a 29 year old and think I would of been done along time ago but what joy we have now i wouldnt do it any other way plus i will be able to provide more for my kids. The only thing I always count in my head is being a grand parent.

My point is i think its what works for you as long as at the end of the day your responsible.

[Stackfault]

Great topic, thanks for starting it.  Timing is perfect for me.

I'm 46 and have kids in 7th and 10th grades.  I'm thinking of retiring in 4 or 5 years once I have a better view of where they are headed and what the cost will be.  I expect both will get 4-year degrees from in-state public schools but realize that other options might be right for them as well.  My parents paid for all of my education but I'd like to have my kids pay for a small portion of theirs just to make them feel vested in the purchase.  We're still a bit too spendy to declare FI with kids at home, especially if a portion of the stash is reserved for college, but I'm optimistic things will align in a few more years when the picture clears and we've saved a bit more.

[HawkeyeNFO]

I'm 41, wife is 39, and we have kids who are 10, 8, and 4.  FI will occur upon Navy retirement in 2017, and I will probably not 'need' to work after that.  My goal is to see that none of my kids incur student debt when they start their careers.

9/11 GI bill is the first part of a 2 part plan, as it will cover 36 months of tuition and room/board that can be split up as necessary.  Second part of the plan is the $2k I have put into all 3 Coverdell accounts annually. 

For the oldest, that means that currently, almost 3 years of an in-state college would be covered.  If she were to go to a community college for a year or two before transferring to get the 4-year degree, it is close to covering 4 years of school.