Author Topic: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.  (Read 31640 times)

Imma

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #200 on: October 18, 2019, 11:34:27 AM »
With all the focus on bathrooms, has anybody mentioned the wasted bedrooms? Unless it's a roommate situation, people should be sharing rooms! And even with roommates, we've crammed an extra person into the living room.

Guilty of that, certainly! We may only have one bathroom but we have three bedrooms for just the two of us

At least they're not guest rooms used once a year, we each have a home office that we run actual businesses from. But if we were truly frugal we'd get a studio apartment and run our business from a laptop in the library of course :)

Montecarlo

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #201 on: October 18, 2019, 01:04:49 PM »
Is it just me, or has this thread gotten a little out of hand?

Some people like two bathrooms; some people like taking the piss out of people with two bathrooms.  Really not a whole lot there to get knickers twisted over.

big_owl

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #202 on: October 18, 2019, 02:42:30 PM »
With all the focus on bathrooms, has anybody mentioned the wasted bedrooms? Unless it's a roommate situation, people should be sharing rooms! And even with roommates, we've crammed an extra person into the living room.

Guilty of that, certainly! We may only have one bathroom but we have three bedrooms for just the two of us

At least they're not guest rooms used once a year, we each have a home office that we run actual businesses from. But if we were truly frugal we'd get a studio apartment and run our business from a laptop in the library of course :)

Hey yeah!   3 bedrooms is way more waste than multiple bathrooms. Like three times the volume to heat/cool. So all ya'll dissin on multiple baths as wasteful can go put your dunce caps on and sit in the corner. Anything more than one bedroom is profligate spending.  All the native Americans needed was a teepee, anything more than that is luxury.

Davnasty

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #203 on: October 18, 2019, 03:11:50 PM »
With all the focus on bathrooms, has anybody mentioned the wasted bedrooms? Unless it's a roommate situation, people should be sharing rooms! And even with roommates, we've crammed an extra person into the living room.

Guilty of that, certainly! We may only have one bathroom but we have three bedrooms for just the two of us

At least they're not guest rooms used once a year, we each have a home office that we run actual businesses from. But if we were truly frugal we'd get a studio apartment and run our business from a laptop in the library of course :)

Hey yeah!   3 bedrooms is way more waste than multiple bathrooms. Like three times the volume to heat/cool. So all ya'll dissin on multiple baths as wasteful can go put your dunce caps on and sit in the corner. Anything more than one bedroom is profligate spending.  All the native Americans needed was a teepee, anything more than that is luxury.

Bedrooms? You mean an entire room just for a bed?!

EvenSteven

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #204 on: October 18, 2019, 03:14:57 PM »
With all the focus on bathrooms, has anybody mentioned the wasted bedrooms? Unless it's a roommate situation, people should be sharing rooms! And even with roommates, we've crammed an extra person into the living room.

Guilty of that, certainly! We may only have one bathroom but we have three bedrooms for just the two of us

At least they're not guest rooms used once a year, we each have a home office that we run actual businesses from. But if we were truly frugal we'd get a studio apartment and run our business from a laptop in the library of course :)

Hey yeah!   3 bedrooms is way more waste than multiple bathrooms. Like three times the volume to heat/cool. So all ya'll dissin on multiple baths as wasteful can go put your dunce caps on and sit in the corner. Anything more than one bedroom is profligate spending.  All the native Americans needed was a teepee, anything more than that is luxury.

Bedrooms? You mean an entire room just for a bed?!

Beds?!

Who invited the Sultan of Brunei?

accolay

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #205 on: October 19, 2019, 01:00:34 AM »
None of these arguments really matter though since there probably wont be enough fresh water (or prohibitively expensive) in the near future to allocate to flushing poop anyway. If you live in a dry place you might want to invest in a good digging shovel.

I can imagine the forum arguments now: People fighting about all the best, the most interesting frugal ways to save time and money digging a hole for their shit. And I in the Great White North will mention the best ways to not get a chapped ass while squatting in the sub zero. I can't wait!
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 01:42:20 AM by accolay »

Cranky

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #206 on: October 19, 2019, 05:26:25 AM »
Luckily, I live in a wet place with cheap housing and my bathrooms are all paid for. ;-)

Brother Esau

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #207 on: October 19, 2019, 07:02:47 AM »
With all the focus on bathrooms, has anybody mentioned the wasted bedrooms? Unless it's a roommate situation, people should be sharing rooms! And even with roommates, we've crammed an extra person into the living room.
Ah, I'd love a third bedroom too.  I pointed that out already.  My boys share a room.  My husband snores.  It's so frigging hard to sleep.  He won't see the damned doctor!  I often end up on the couch.

This is wrong...HE should be on the couch.

RetiredAt63

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #208 on: October 19, 2019, 07:37:25 AM »
With all the focus on bathrooms, has anybody mentioned the wasted bedrooms? Unless it's a roommate situation, people should be sharing rooms! And even with roommates, we've crammed an extra person into the living room.
Ah, I'd love a third bedroom too.  I pointed that out already.  My boys share a room.  My husband snores.  It's so frigging hard to sleep.  He won't see the damned doctor!  I often end up on the couch.

This is wrong...HE should be on the couch.

Good luck with that!  My Ex snored too, and I often ended up in DD's bedroom (she was away at university).  Bad snorers just don't believe that they are bad snorers.

Brother Esau

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #209 on: October 19, 2019, 08:28:21 AM »
With all the focus on bathrooms, has anybody mentioned the wasted bedrooms? Unless it's a roommate situation, people should be sharing rooms! And even with roommates, we've crammed an extra person into the living room.
Ah, I'd love a third bedroom too.  I pointed that out already.  My boys share a room.  My husband snores.  It's so frigging hard to sleep.  He won't see the damned doctor!  I often end up on the couch.

This is wrong...HE should be on the couch.

Good luck with that!  My Ex snored too, and I often ended up in DD's bedroom (she was away at university).  Bad snorers just don't believe that they are bad snorers.

#fakenews I snore occasionally and always leave the bedroom if DW asks me to.

ysette9

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #210 on: October 19, 2019, 08:40:08 AM »
I had to beg my husband to go to the doctor to talk about his snoring problem.
I wrote an emotional note for him to hand to his doctor describing in great detail how awful it was. The doctor described it as my husband having “a social problem” but reluctantly ordered a sleep study.

Turns out my 30s Asian fit husband had sleep apnea. So he went to a class full of old white overweight men to learn how to use a c-pap. So helpful!

Linea_Norway

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #211 on: October 19, 2019, 10:10:27 AM »
Heard this morning in my home. FIL was in the forvthis occasion guest bathroom. I heard his electric razor. His GF went in too and I heard the toilet, maybe the flushing only. So she peed while he shaved. The mirror looks out onto the toilet. They know each other for three months only.

We have 3 additional rooms. Therefore we are selling. One extra room is nice to have, though.

DH has his periods of snoring. I have good to the step of buying goid earplugs that are easy to put into my ears. But if the snoring is loud, I ask him to sleep somewhere else, couch or guest bedroom. With exception if he is in a period of being sleep deprived. Then I will go sleep somewhere else voluntarily.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2019, 10:12:52 AM by Linea_Norway »

RetiredAt63

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #212 on: October 19, 2019, 01:01:43 PM »
I had to beg my husband to go to the doctor to talk about his snoring problem.
I wrote an emotional note for him to hand to his doctor describing in great detail how awful it was. The doctor described it as my husband having “a social problem” but reluctantly ordered a sleep study.

Turns out my 30s Asian fit husband had sleep apnea. So he went to a class full of old white overweight men to learn how to use a c-pap. So helpful!

My Ex's ENT specialist requires the spouse to come for the first appointment.  She believed me when I told her how badly he snored.  He finally believed me when she tried to put this tiny catheter up his nose and couldn't.  Turns out he had a badly deviated septum from breaking his nose when he was little.

Kudos to snorers who actually believe their spouse that they snore.  From anecdata I think you are in the minority.

Linea_Norway

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #213 on: October 19, 2019, 02:11:27 PM »
I had to beg my husband to go to the doctor to talk about his snoring problem.
I wrote an emotional note for him to hand to his doctor describing in great detail how awful it was. The doctor described it as my husband having “a social problem” but reluctantly ordered a sleep study.

Turns out my 30s Asian fit husband had sleep apnea. So he went to a class full of old white overweight men to learn how to use a c-pap. So helpful!

My Ex's ENT specialist requires the spouse to come for the first appointment.  She believed me when I told her how badly he snored.  He finally believed me when she tried to put this tiny catheter up his nose and couldn't.  Turns out he had a badly deviated septum from breaking his nose when he was little.

Kudos to snorers who actually believe their spouse that they snore.  From anecdata I think you are in the minority.

Most mobile phones can record sound. You might need to install an app for that. But record it if he/she doesn't believe you.

RetiredAt63

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #214 on: October 19, 2019, 02:15:05 PM »
I had to beg my husband to go to the doctor to talk about his snoring problem.
I wrote an emotional note for him to hand to his doctor describing in great detail how awful it was. The doctor described it as my husband having “a social problem” but reluctantly ordered a sleep study.

Turns out my 30s Asian fit husband had sleep apnea. So he went to a class full of old white overweight men to learn how to use a c-pap. So helpful!

My Ex's ENT specialist requires the spouse to come for the first appointment.  She believed me when I told her how badly he snored.  He finally believed me when she tried to put this tiny catheter up his nose and couldn't.  Turns out he had a badly deviated septum from breaking his nose when he was little.

Kudos to snorers who actually believe their spouse that they snore.  From anecdata I think you are in the minority.

Most mobile phones can record sound. You might need to install an app for that. But record it if he/she doesn't believe you.

That works for present days.  Mine was back in the days when cell phones were big bricks and only acted as phones.  I actually brought a decibel meter home from work, but he didn't believe it's readings either.  ;-)

chouchouu

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #215 on: October 21, 2019, 04:14:13 PM »
This forum gets so incredibly frustrating when posters believe that their own *personal* definition of frugality should govern everyone else.

From my personal perspective, the whole point of MMM/the frugal community in general is not to run a race to the frugal bottom just so you can see how soon you can retire or how cheaply you can live.  The whole point is to question all of your expenses/consumerist norms, cut mercilessly the things you don't care about, and then save/spend the excess so you can live a rich life.

My wife and I live in an 1,100 square foot ranch, drive two paid off cars, analyze our expenses monthly, constantly strive to save on groceries, etc. ... all so we can enjoy our various hobbies.  Note that this does not make us correct or right, it just means we are doing what we feel is best for our situation.

If you need a bigger house than my wife and I, and you need 2.5 bathrooms or whatever, I'm sure you've thought about it, and your priorities in life, so good for you. I take five minute showers and would rather spend my leisure time reading with a 55" TV playing sports in the background; but if you love taking a nice, long bath, and that makes you happy, then splurge on that second bathroom all you want. Good for you.

I wish people weren't so high and mighty, judgmental, and oftentimes rude on this forum.

Sharing a bathroom is hardly a "race to the bottom," that comes across as extreme don't you think? I think in fire there is an expectation that we question our norms. What I'm seeing in this discussion is a cultural division and I think a questioning of an unsustainable American /Australian lifestyle that has only recently been normalised. I don't think 2 bathrooms were the norm 50 years ago and both countries have household energy consumption that is unsustainable. Unless you have crohns or some other issue I don't think there is anything wrong with judging the superfluous addition of a second bathroom.

Also seems a bit weird to judge families as cheap for sharing a bathroom. As I said before I grew up sharing a bathroom and do now, always lived in 1 bathroom situations. Growing up we had 20k ski holidays twice a year, overseas holidays every year and ate out pretty much every night. I was considered rich in my circle. I take my kids overseas twice a year, I spend thousands on their extracurriculars and horror upon horror they share a room, we share a bathroom and we don't have a car. I think I live a luxury lifestyle despite those things.

Cranky

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #216 on: October 22, 2019, 05:58:15 AM »
I dunno - 50 years ago the small starter house I grew up in had two bathrooms, and the "nicer" house we moved to when I was a teenager had three. I think one bathroom houses are mostly pre-WWII construction, which coincided with smaller families.

Montecarlo

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #217 on: October 22, 2019, 10:01:14 AM »
I dunno - 50 years ago the small starter house I grew up in had two bathrooms, and the "nicer" house we moved to when I was a teenager had three. I think one bathroom houses are mostly pre-WWII construction, which coincided with smaller families.
Post war 2/1s are extremely common in my area.  I think it's definitely market specific.

partgypsy

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #218 on: October 22, 2019, 12:07:52 PM »
I had to beg my husband to go to the doctor to talk about his snoring problem.
I wrote an emotional note for him to hand to his doctor describing in great detail how awful it was. The doctor described it as my husband having “a social problem” but reluctantly ordered a sleep study.

Turns out my 30s Asian fit husband had sleep apnea. So he went to a class full of old white overweight men to learn how to use a c-pap. So helpful!

Is he from Korea by any chance? They have one of the highest incidences of sleep apnea. Has to do with facial architecture. Think of a "pug" or bulldog having breathing problems.

BikingEngineer

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #219 on: October 22, 2019, 12:11:25 PM »
Get a beard Mat. They are awesome it is like a thick latex rubber mat and you lay it over the sink then when you are done you roll it up and empty the hair in the trash. Even if you had your own sink this is still easier than cleaning up all of those tiny hairs.
I prefer the Beard King. It's sort of like the cape you wear when you get a haircut, but it has suction cups to stick to the bathroom mirror. The trimmings are all caught immediately, and you can just walk the whole thing over to the trash when you're done. Should work similarly to the mat but it allows use without disturbing the countertop, which in my house is filled with whatever my wife has decided to store there.

Phenix

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #220 on: October 22, 2019, 01:11:21 PM »
Get a beard Mat. They are awesome it is like a thick latex rubber mat and you lay it over the sink then when you are done you roll it up and empty the hair in the trash. Even if you had your own sink this is still easier than cleaning up all of those tiny hairs.
I prefer the Beard King. It's sort of like the cape you wear when you get a haircut, but it has suction cups to stick to the bathroom mirror. The trimmings are all caught immediately, and you can just walk the whole thing over to the trash when you're done. Should work similarly to the mat but it allows use without disturbing the countertop, which in my house is filled with whatever my wife has decided to store there.

I have a beard cape and never really found it easy to use.  Felt more in the way, so now I lay it out on the counter and use it as a beard mat.
Sorry for going off topic - back to the 3 bed, 1 bath discussions.

ysette9

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In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #221 on: October 22, 2019, 02:41:23 PM »
I had to beg my husband to go to the doctor to talk about his snoring problem.
I wrote an emotional note for him to hand to his doctor describing in great detail how awful it was. The doctor described it as my husband having “a social problem” but reluctantly ordered a sleep study.

Turns out my 30s Asian fit husband had sleep apnea. So he went to a class full of old white overweight men to learn how to use a c-pap. So helpful!

Is he from Korea by any chance? They have one of the highest incidences of sleep apnea. Has to do with facial architecture. Think of a "pug" or bulldog having breathing problems.
Interesting. Not Korea but ethnic Chinese.

joshuagraham_xyz

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #222 on: October 22, 2019, 03:05:49 PM »
We found that having kids and one bathroom to be a challenge. Sometimes when we arrived at home everyone had to go right now. Us guys could flee to the back yard if it was dark enough... Benefits of living in the country. These days I think 1.5 is the minimum number of baths we require in our house.
I remember when I had just bought a home in a new subdivision on the lot farthest down the street, and at night I would go in the back yard joyfully relieve myself as nature had intended it  Then the neighbors started moving in, and I had to abandon it until they put up yard fences, after which I could recommence.  Unfortunately, there is not enough fencing around my current home. :(

dougules

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #223 on: October 22, 2019, 03:43:08 PM »
We found that having kids and one bathroom to be a challenge. Sometimes when we arrived at home everyone had to go right now. Us guys could flee to the back yard if it was dark enough... Benefits of living in the country. These days I think 1.5 is the minimum number of baths we require in our house.
I remember when I had just bought a home in a new subdivision on the lot farthest down the street, and at night I would go in the back yard joyfully relieve myself as nature had intended it  Then the neighbors started moving in, and I had to abandon it until they put up yard fences, after which I could recommence.  Unfortunately, there is not enough fencing around my current home. :(

What's cheaper, another bathroom or more fencing?

OtherJen

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #224 on: October 22, 2019, 04:53:41 PM »
I dunno - 50 years ago the small starter house I grew up in had two bathrooms, and the "nicer" house we moved to when I was a teenager had three. I think one bathroom houses are mostly pre-WWII construction, which coincided with smaller families.
Post war 2/1s are extremely common in my area.  I think it's definitely market specific.

My neighborhood is 95% post-WWII 2/1s and 3/1s. Ours was built in 1952.

EngagedToFIRE

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #225 on: October 22, 2019, 05:39:55 PM »
This forum gets so incredibly frustrating when posters believe that their own *personal* definition of frugality should govern everyone else.

From my personal perspective, the whole point of MMM/the frugal community in general is not to run a race to the frugal bottom just so you can see how soon you can retire or how cheaply you can live.  The whole point is to question all of your expenses/consumerist norms, cut mercilessly the things you don't care about, and then save/spend the excess so you can live a rich life.

My wife and I live in an 1,100 square foot ranch, drive two paid off cars, analyze our expenses monthly, constantly strive to save on groceries, etc. ... all so we can enjoy our various hobbies.  Note that this does not make us correct or right, it just means we are doing what we feel is best for our situation.

If you need a bigger house than my wife and I, and you need 2.5 bathrooms or whatever, I'm sure you've thought about it, and your priorities in life, so good for you. I take five minute showers and would rather spend my leisure time reading with a 55" TV playing sports in the background; but if you love taking a nice, long bath, and that makes you happy, then splurge on that second bathroom all you want. Good for you.

I wish people weren't so high and mighty, judgmental, and oftentimes rude on this forum.

Questioning norms and critiquing each others lifestyle and spending choices are a big part of the forum. As for trying to govern other peoples' choices, that happens, but I really haven't seen that in this thread. Has anyone actually been told they shouldn't have 2 bathrooms?

What I see is some people saying 2 bathrooms is a necessity and others questioning that mindset.

I also find the argument of "[if] that makes you happy, then splurge" to fall a little short. If it truly improves your life, then yes, splurge. But the fact is, humans do a very poor job of determining what will actually make them happy, especially in the long term. That's where discussions like this have benefitted my life. Taking the life experience of a whole bunch of people and using it to inform my decisions rather than just taking my best guess based on my own experience has resulted in me making better life choices (probably :)

Viewing something as a necessity or as something that improves your life simply because you've had that something for awhile and grown accustomed to having it is incredibly common and I suspect that could explain a lot of the sentiment expressed in this thread. That's not the same as truly improving ones life. I used to drive a truck and for a time I actually used it as a truck and I think it improved my life. Then I moved into an apartment and had less use for a truck but I still made the same argument. "This truck makes me happy, so I splurge on owning it". I used arguments of uncommon scenarios like "what if I need to pick up furniture from the thrift store". Very similar to, "what if someone has a stomach virus".

But then I read these forums for a while and decided maybe I should try a smaller car. Now I've realized my happiness hasn't decreased at all. In fact I take pride in my 12 year old Honda Fit and parking in town is much easier.

Agree with your response.  To me, this is MMM - MMM is a guy, who writes from a "guru" perspective, pretty aggressively, advocating pretty specific things.  This translates to the forum quite well.  So I'm not surprised when the "personal definition of frugality" tends to mimic MMM himself.  That's kind of the whole point of being here, right?  If not, just go to a generic FIRE forum.

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #226 on: October 22, 2019, 09:34:27 PM »
Just for grins, I checked Zillow for 3+1's in my community. There are exactly two listed, out of a total of 60 properties. They are both priced at $899k and they're both on shitty streets. A huge percentage of our housing stock is post-WWII, but even then 3+2 was the norm, apparently.

Linea_Norway

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #227 on: October 23, 2019, 01:17:30 AM »
Just for grins, I checked Zillow for 3+1's in my community. There are exactly two listed, out of a total of 60 properties. They are both priced at $899k and they're both on shitty streets. A huge percentage of our housing stock is post-WWII, but even then 3+2 was the norm, apparently.

At least where I grew up (The Netherlands) in the 50-ies, 3 bedrooms, a separate toilet and a bathroom without a toilet was the norm.

Later in the 70-ies 3 + 1,5 became the norm. Always a separate toilet, which make having one full bath a lot less problematic.

chouchouu

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #228 on: October 23, 2019, 01:29:38 AM »
Just for grins, I checked Zillow for 3+1's in my community. There are exactly two listed, out of a total of 60 properties. They are both priced at $899k and they're both on shitty streets. A huge percentage of our housing stock is post-WWII, but even then 3+2 was the norm, apparently.

At least where I grew up (The Netherlands) in the 50-ies, 3 bedrooms, a separate toilet and a bathroom without a toilet was the norm.

Later in the 70-ies 3 + 1,5 became the norm. Always a separate toilet, which make having one full bath a lot less problematic.

The new build neighbourhood we moved to in the 90s was mostly 3 bedrooms 1 bath, that's in Sydney and the ensuites started to be added late 90s in the new builds. Now it's multiple bathrooms but typical houses to the early 90s had 1 bath.

StarBright

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #229 on: October 23, 2019, 07:18:28 AM »
Just for grins, I checked Zillow for 3+1's in my community. There are exactly two listed, out of a total of 60 properties. They are both priced at $899k and they're both on shitty streets. A huge percentage of our housing stock is post-WWII, but even then 3+2 was the norm, apparently.

I love doing stuff like that! I just checked too and we had two 2-1s and one 3-1 for sale out of 56 properties. All three built in the 1930s. I'm in the midwest though so all three were priced between 140-170k (and those prices are location dependent - the three bed is farthest from our walkable "downtown" and it is the cheapest).
« Last Edit: October 23, 2019, 08:25:30 AM by StarBright »

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #230 on: October 23, 2019, 08:03:46 AM »
When I was traveling in Eastern Canada last year, I went into a ladies washroom in a casual restaurant and there were 2 toilets side by side and a sink in the room.  No cubicles and one was not a bidet.  Initially shocking but I could totally see the efficiency of this especially with a mother and child situation.   Two toilets make infinitely more sense than 2 sinks!

slappy

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #231 on: October 23, 2019, 09:53:42 AM »
When I was traveling in Eastern Canada last year, I went into a ladies washroom in a casual restaurant and there were 2 toilets side by side and a sink in the room.  No cubicles and one was not a bidet.  Initially shocking but I could totally see the efficiency of this especially with a mother and child situation.   Two toilets make infinitely more sense than 2 sinks!

I live in the states and I've seen a couple of the "family" bathrooms like that. The second toilet is child sized. I love it because i don't have to go in with my kid (I have three so it can be a challenge). I can just stand outside the door with the two other kids and the cart full of groceries.

partgypsy

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #232 on: October 23, 2019, 09:55:51 AM »
When I was traveling in Eastern Canada last year, I went into a ladies washroom in a casual restaurant and there were 2 toilets side by side and a sink in the room.  No cubicles and one was not a bidet.  Initially shocking but I could totally see the efficiency of this especially with a mother and child situation.   Two toilets make infinitely more sense than 2 sinks!

I live in the states and I've seen a couple of the "family" bathrooms like that. The second toilet is child sized. I love it because i don't have to go in with my kid (I have three so it can be a challenge). I can just stand outside the door with the two other kids and the cart full of groceries.

gosh when I had 2 young kids that would be a lifesaver. I still remember them being in there, waiting for them to do whatever they were doing, yelling through the door "Are you doing number one or number two? Are you done? Did you wipe" to the unamusement of bystanders.

slappy

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #233 on: October 23, 2019, 10:26:17 AM »
When I was traveling in Eastern Canada last year, I went into a ladies washroom in a casual restaurant and there were 2 toilets side by side and a sink in the room.  No cubicles and one was not a bidet.  Initially shocking but I could totally see the efficiency of this especially with a mother and child situation.   Two toilets make infinitely more sense than 2 sinks!

I live in the states and I've seen a couple of the "family" bathrooms like that. The second toilet is child sized. I love it because i don't have to go in with my kid (I have three so it can be a challenge). I can just stand outside the door with the two other kids and the cart full of groceries.

gosh when I had 2 young kids that would be a lifesaver. I still remember them being in there, waiting for them to do whatever they were doing, yelling through the door "Are you doing number one or number two? Are you done? Did you wipe" to the unamusement of bystanders.

Awww. I've never had unamused bystanders. Usually they think it's cute. My 5 year old is totally extroverted, so he's all about striking up conversation with bystanders.

dougules

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #234 on: October 23, 2019, 11:02:59 AM »
This forum gets so incredibly frustrating when posters believe that their own *personal* definition of frugality should govern everyone else.

From my personal perspective, the whole point of MMM/the frugal community in general is not to run a race to the frugal bottom just so you can see how soon you can retire or how cheaply you can live.  The whole point is to question all of your expenses/consumerist norms, cut mercilessly the things you don't care about, and then save/spend the excess so you can live a rich life.

My wife and I live in an 1,100 square foot ranch, drive two paid off cars, analyze our expenses monthly, constantly strive to save on groceries, etc. ... all so we can enjoy our various hobbies.  Note that this does not make us correct or right, it just means we are doing what we feel is best for our situation.

If you need a bigger house than my wife and I, and you need 2.5 bathrooms or whatever, I'm sure you've thought about it, and your priorities in life, so good for you. I take five minute showers and would rather spend my leisure time reading with a 55" TV playing sports in the background; but if you love taking a nice, long bath, and that makes you happy, then splurge on that second bathroom all you want. Good for you.

I wish people weren't so high and mighty, judgmental, and oftentimes rude on this forum.

Questioning norms and critiquing each others lifestyle and spending choices are a big part of the forum. As for trying to govern other peoples' choices, that happens, but I really haven't seen that in this thread. Has anyone actually been told they shouldn't have 2 bathrooms?

What I see is some people saying 2 bathrooms is a necessity and others questioning that mindset.

I also find the argument of "[if] that makes you happy, then splurge" to fall a little short. If it truly improves your life, then yes, splurge. But the fact is, humans do a very poor job of determining what will actually make them happy, especially in the long term. That's where discussions like this have benefitted my life. Taking the life experience of a whole bunch of people and using it to inform my decisions rather than just taking my best guess based on my own experience has resulted in me making better life choices (probably :)

Viewing something as a necessity or as something that improves your life simply because you've had that something for awhile and grown accustomed to having it is incredibly common and I suspect that could explain a lot of the sentiment expressed in this thread. That's not the same as truly improving ones life. I used to drive a truck and for a time I actually used it as a truck and I think it improved my life. Then I moved into an apartment and had less use for a truck but I still made the same argument. "This truck makes me happy, so I splurge on owning it". I used arguments of uncommon scenarios like "what if I need to pick up furniture from the thrift store". Very similar to, "what if someone has a stomach virus".

But then I read these forums for a while and decided maybe I should try a smaller car. Now I've realized my happiness hasn't decreased at all. In fact I take pride in my 12 year old Honda Fit and parking in town is much easier.

Agree with your response.  To me, this is MMM - MMM is a guy, who writes from a "guru" perspective, pretty aggressively, advocating pretty specific things.  This translates to the forum quite well.  So I'm not surprised when the "personal definition of frugality" tends to mimic MMM himself.  That's kind of the whole point of being here, right?  If not, just go to a generic FIRE forum.

The MMM blog isn't about frugality but optimization.  That generally involves frugality, but not always.  So many of the articles talk about all the luxuries he buys. 

mm1970

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #235 on: October 23, 2019, 11:15:43 AM »
With all the focus on bathrooms, has anybody mentioned the wasted bedrooms? Unless it's a roommate situation, people should be sharing rooms! And even with roommates, we've crammed an extra person into the living room.
Ah, I'd love a third bedroom too.  I pointed that out already.  My boys share a room.  My husband snores.  It's so frigging hard to sleep.  He won't see the damned doctor!  I often end up on the couch.

This is wrong...HE should be on the couch.
True...maybe.  but, I'm 5'2", he's 6' tall, so I fit on the couch.   AND I get up at 4:40-5:30 to go to the gym.  But really, he just needs to see the doctor.

solon

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #236 on: October 23, 2019, 03:43:43 PM »
Just for grins, I checked Zillow for 3+1's in my community. There are exactly two listed, out of a total of 60 properties. They are both priced at $899k and they're both on shitty streets. A huge percentage of our housing stock is post-WWII, but even then 3+2 was the norm, apparently.

I love doing stuff like that! I just checked too and we had two 2-1s and one 3-1 for sale out of 56 properties. All three built in the 1930s. I'm in the midwest though so all three were priced between 140-170k (and those prices are location dependent - the three bed is farthest from our walkable "downtown" and it is the cheapest).

How are you all searching for 3/1s?

When I search zillow, the options for bedrooms are: 1+, 2+, 3+, 4+, 5+
The options for bathrooms are the same. So when I put 3+ beds and 1+ bath, I get anything with three or more bedrooms and one or more bathrooms.

YttriumNitrate

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #237 on: October 24, 2019, 09:17:27 AM »
How are you all searching for 3/1s?
When I search zillow, the options for bedrooms are: 1+, 2+, 3+, 4+, 5+
The options for bathrooms are the same. So when I put 3+ beds and 1+ bath, I get anything with three or more bedrooms and one or more bathrooms.
Do a search, and then sort the results by the number of bathrooms.

ROF Expat

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #238 on: October 24, 2019, 09:59:09 AM »
This forum gets so incredibly frustrating when posters believe that their own *personal* definition of frugality should govern everyone else.

From my personal perspective, the whole point of MMM/the frugal community in general is not to run a race to the frugal bottom just so you can see how soon you can retire or how cheaply you can live.  The whole point is to question all of your expenses/consumerist norms, cut mercilessly the things you don't care about, and then save/spend the excess so you can live a rich life.

My wife and I live in an 1,100 square foot ranch, drive two paid off cars, analyze our expenses monthly, constantly strive to save on groceries, etc. ... all so we can enjoy our various hobbies.  Note that this does not make us correct or right, it just means we are doing what we feel is best for our situation.

If you need a bigger house than my wife and I, and you need 2.5 bathrooms or whatever, I'm sure you've thought about it, and your priorities in life, so good for you. I take five minute showers and would rather spend my leisure time reading with a 55" TV playing sports in the background; but if you love taking a nice, long bath, and that makes you happy, then splurge on that second bathroom all you want. Good for you.

I wish people weren't so high and mighty, judgmental, and oftentimes rude on this forum.

Questioning norms and critiquing each others lifestyle and spending choices are a big part of the forum. As for trying to govern other peoples' choices, that happens, but I really haven't seen that in this thread. Has anyone actually been told they shouldn't have 2 bathrooms?

What I see is some people saying 2 bathrooms is a necessity and others questioning that mindset.

I also find the argument of "[if] that makes you happy, then splurge" to fall a little short. If it truly improves your life, then yes, splurge. But the fact is, humans do a very poor job of determining what will actually make them happy, especially in the long term. That's where discussions like this have benefitted my life. Taking the life experience of a whole bunch of people and using it to inform my decisions rather than just taking my best guess based on my own experience has resulted in me making better life choices (probably :)

Viewing something as a necessity or as something that improves your life simply because you've had that something for awhile and grown accustomed to having it is incredibly common and I suspect that could explain a lot of the sentiment expressed in this thread. That's not the same as truly improving ones life. I used to drive a truck and for a time I actually used it as a truck and I think it improved my life. Then I moved into an apartment and had less use for a truck but I still made the same argument. "This truck makes me happy, so I splurge on owning it". I used arguments of uncommon scenarios like "what if I need to pick up furniture from the thrift store". Very similar to, "what if someone has a stomach virus".

But then I read these forums for a while and decided maybe I should try a smaller car. Now I've realized my happiness hasn't decreased at all. In fact I take pride in my 12 year old Honda Fit and parking in town is much easier.

Agree with your response.  To me, this is MMM - MMM is a guy, who writes from a "guru" perspective, pretty aggressively, advocating pretty specific things.  This translates to the forum quite well.  So I'm not surprised when the "personal definition of frugality" tends to mimic MMM himself.  That's kind of the whole point of being here, right?  If not, just go to a generic FIRE forum.

These arguments about what is "Mustachian" always remind me of the "Follow the shoe!" and "Follow the gourd!" scene in Life of Brian.

Just Joe

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #239 on: October 28, 2019, 10:21:20 AM »
Having no fan should be illegal.  There are building codes for that sort of shit now thank god.  I've also upgraded the fans in my key go-to bathrooms to maintain as much negative pressure as possible.  Your ears should pop when you fire that baby up.
Like a pull-start rope hanging from the ceiling? What brand motor? Briggs & Stratton? Husqvarna?

Briggs & Stratton and Husqvarna are Busch league. Go with Pratt & Whitney. Their V2500 model is quite good.

I don't quite want to suck the tile off the floor. Maybe the P&W would be okay at idle... ;)

Just Joe

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #240 on: October 28, 2019, 10:25:48 AM »
Well my issue is generally design principles. Every house built pre war had cross ventilation, they all had eaves. Nowadays its really hard to find new builds built with these basic principles unless they are architect designs. They're all built to be temperature controlled with aircon and use up a lot of energy because they ignore basic design. They also tend to be built with the garage taking up half the front of the house so they're ugly as anything.

That's a house shopping requirement - no street facing garage doors. Two reason: the look and the fact that whatever I have stored in my garage is visible to anyone strolling by, especially at night when I work. I have a garage workshop. I neither want to advertise my projects nor the tools I use.

Also implies the lot is bigger than those postage stamp places. Glad folks want to live like that. I don't so we live somewhere besides the crowded cities or coastal areas.

slappy

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #241 on: October 28, 2019, 10:47:40 AM »
Well my issue is generally design principles. Every house built pre war had cross ventilation, they all had eaves. Nowadays its really hard to find new builds built with these basic principles unless they are architect designs. They're all built to be temperature controlled with aircon and use up a lot of energy because they ignore basic design. They also tend to be built with the garage taking up half the front of the house so they're ugly as anything.

That's a house shopping requirement - no street facing garage doors. Two reason: the look and the fact that whatever I have stored in my garage is visible to anyone strolling by, especially at night when I work. I have a garage workshop. I neither want to advertise my projects nor the tools I use.

Also implies the lot is bigger than those postage stamp places. Glad folks want to live like that. I don't so we live somewhere besides the crowded cities or coastal areas.

Can't you just keep the garage doors closed while you work?

Dicey

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #242 on: October 28, 2019, 10:58:11 AM »
You can abhor front-facing garages all you want, but in CA that's mostly what there is, so you get used to it. They are certainly more efficient use of land and convenient to boot.

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #243 on: October 28, 2019, 02:27:41 PM »
You can abhor front-facing garages all you want, but in CA that's mostly what there is, so you get used to it. They are certainly more efficient use of land and convenient to boot.

The architectural slur for this is a Snout House... Some places are actually banning them!  Nobody ever walked through a neighborhood of Snout Houses and thought "Oh! How charming!"  But, some folks don't have much of a choice in the matter so I try not to hate too hard. ;) 

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #244 on: October 28, 2019, 08:07:25 PM »
I live in FL, so if I had a 3/1 I would have an outdoor shower/ composting toilet setup. I could only do 3/1 if the toilet and shower were in separate rooms, with the sink open in the middle.

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #245 on: October 29, 2019, 02:58:03 AM »
You can abhor front-facing garages all you want, but in CA that's mostly what there is, so you get used to it. They are certainly more efficient use of land and convenient to boot.

I think its arguable if they are an efficient use of land. Firstly anywhere from 20 to 85 % of garages are so full of junk they are not available for their intended purpose. Secondly cars are very inefficient means of transport considering the resources they use both financial and environmental. So using prime housing space for cars seems to me to be an inefficient use of both money and space.

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #246 on: October 29, 2019, 03:32:25 AM »
I live in FL, so if I had a 3/1 I would have an outdoor shower/ composting toilet setup. I could only do 3/1 if the toilet and shower were in separate rooms, with the sink open in the middle.

That means brushing your teeth in the corridor?

The traditional way to solve this in The Netherlands is to have a shower and normal size sink in one room and a toilet with small handwash sink in a separate room.

Imma

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #247 on: October 29, 2019, 04:00:55 AM »
I live in FL, so if I had a 3/1 I would have an outdoor shower/ composting toilet setup. I could only do 3/1 if the toilet and shower were in separate rooms, with the sink open in the middle.

That means brushing your teeth in the corridor?

The traditional way to solve this in The Netherlands is to have a shower and normal size sink in one room and a toilet with small handwash sink in a separate room.

I think this is the most convenient option, rather than having one full bathroom with everything in one big room. My toilet is always ready for unexpected visitors, but my bathroom can sometimes be a bit messy. I've only seen the 'everything in one big room' approach in very small apartments in NL. Otherwise it's usually seperate rooms. On top of that first separate toilet there is usually a second toilet in the bathroom in modern homes, but that one is 'family-only' so you don't really have to worry about the mess. Our home didn't have a second toilet when we bought it but we added it.

I'm a bit at loss about street-facing garage doors. I don't particularly like the look either, but if the door isn't street-facing, how do you get your car in the garage? That's the whole point of it even though many people use it for other purposes. Maybe if a plot is so large you can add a driveway around your house to the back of the house?

Garages are kind of disappearing where I live because space is so expensive. A house with a garage is a lot more expensive than oen without a garage, and people aren't going to spend a ton of money to have a place to store a car when you can park it on the street or spend money for an extra place to store junk that you could also store in the shed or attic. A lot of homeowners have converted their garages into extra living space, home office space or have even turned them into small apartments to rent out to students. Because my s/o's business requires a lot of heavy stuff being carried in and out of the house we've looked around for a place with a street-facing garage for convenience, but we haven't been able to find an affordable one in our city.

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #248 on: October 29, 2019, 04:15:55 AM »
You can abhor front-facing garages all you want, but in CA that's mostly what there is, so you get used to it. They are certainly more efficient use of land and convenient to boot.

I think its arguable if they are an efficient use of land. Firstly anywhere from 20 to 85 % of garages are so full of junk they are not available for their intended purpose. Secondly cars are very inefficient means of transport considering the resources they use both financial and environmental. So using prime housing space for cars seems to me to be an inefficient use of both money and space.

But that’s an argument against garages in general, not where they are located in relation to the rest of your house. My garage is detached- common in my older neighborhood- and full of gardening stuff and my dh’s pottery studio. Also, the car, lawnmower, and snowblower. It’s a very useful space.

chouchouu

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Re: In praise of the 3 bedroom 1 bathroom house.
« Reply #249 on: October 29, 2019, 04:41:21 AM »
You can abhor front-facing garages all you want, but in CA that's mostly what there is, so you get used to it. They are certainly more efficient use of land and convenient to boot.

I think its arguable if they are an efficient use of land. Firstly anywhere from 20 to 85 % of garages are so full of junk they are not available for their intended purpose. Secondly cars are very inefficient means of transport considering the resources they use both financial and environmental. So using prime housing space for cars seems to me to be an inefficient use of both money and space.

But that’s an argument against garages in general, not where they are located in relation to the rest of your house. My garage is detached- common in my older neighborhood- and full of gardening stuff and my dh’s pottery studio. Also, the car, lawnmower, and snowblower. It’s a very useful space.

True. I suppose if you have a car efficient placing of garage would depend on which direction the house faces. Would be poor design having a garage take up the front of a house if it were north facing in Australia.