Author Topic: In a career slump, trying to slog it out  (Read 2884 times)

Shrinkydink8

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In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« on: May 11, 2019, 04:39:39 PM »
I've been in a major career slump for the past 3 years.  It's really hard for me to even figure out how I got here.

The summary- I have a Ph.D. and advanced licenses in Clinical Psychology.  About 6 years ago, I was working like crazy and getting paid horribly (I made $25/hr with my Ph.D.), so I went back to school and got another doctoral-level certification.  I specialize in Autism, which is a very high-demand field and growing like crazy.  I should have no trouble getting a job, right? 

So after I left my first professional job, the one that I was paid $25/hr for (Im not terrible at negotiating, this was and still is the going rate in my area), I took 2 other higher-level jobs with much better pay.  I was eventually running an outpatient clinic, a job that I LOVED when I was unexpectedly cut.  Budget cuts, and I was the newest program manager.  For what it's worth, my clinic was thriving.  I started a lot of new services, which led to increased demand, more clients, etc.  Why in the world would my clinic get cut? B/c we were at a public university and the only programs that didn't get cut were the ones whose program leaders had friends in the highest places.  I was a newbie- I didn't have any powerful friends.

So after I lost that job, I thought I could easily get another job running a clinic.  New clinics were popping up all the time in the area I'm in.  But now it seems like I'm in this overqualified/yet underqualified conundrum.  I'm overqualified for most outpatient clinics- they are only advertising for Master's level clinicians, but for doctoral level candidates, which are mostly at universities, they want solid backgrounds of publications and grants.  That's not me.

So I begrudgingly took a job at a major university nearby- on a grant-funded position (I wasn't very interested in the type of work it provided).  I thought that if I got my foot in the door at this world-class university, for sure I could get another job at this same university once the grant ran out, 2 years later, right?  Well, nope.  I've applied to at least a dozen jobs at this same university, even those that only require a Master's, and I'm not even getting interviews.  I think it's that over-yet-underqualified thing.

So I had a heart to heart with one of my friends who is very successful last year.  She urged me to get out of my comfort zone, and try more networking.  I did this, spending the last year really pushing myself out of my comfort zone.  I emailed complete strangers, had some awkward lunches with people I barely knew, etc.  I realized that one glaring area where I am really lacking is in the area of publications.  So, in the last year I gave 3 presentations at local and international professional conferences, again reaching out to strangers to put together a diverse panel.  I also put together a publication, and have been volunteering with a more established researcher for the past year.  We're putting the last touches on a paper.  I made the deal with her that she didn't have to pay me as long as she gave me publications to work on. I spend 2 hrs/wk running an experimental therapy group for her. 

But, after all this effort in the past year, I'm still nowhere.  My grant-funded position ran out.  I now teach at the university, but get paid the adjunct amount, which is peanuts.  I also started back part-time (begrudgingly) at the very first company that I ever worked at, now at a whopping $34/hr.  I'm embarrassed just writing that.  I'm also working part-time at a friend's private practice.  So after all this trying and effort, I'm now making less money.  It's so disheartening. 

I think a major problem is the area I live in.  I live in a medium-sized city in the Midwest, a sort of Rust Belt city.  Not many high-paying jobs here, very little in the way of specialty services.  I'm stuck for a year, my husband will be starting a one-year training program this summer.  After that, I'm looking for anything better. 

I have a year to burn.  My first paper that I submitted for publication was rejected, but after taking a week to lick my wounds, I'm working back at restructuring it.  I have another paper I'm working at completing for publication.  This next year gives me anxiety b/c I'm making less, and since my husband will be in a training program, he won't have an income.  It's like I'm staring doom in the face.

I don't even know what to ask. How do I bounce back? Where do I go from here?  I keep thinking there HAS to be something better out there for me, I know I'm capable of much more than I'm doing now.  Anyone gone through something similar and now out the other side?

ObviouslyNotAGolfer

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2019, 05:14:46 PM »
I have a Ph.D. in Biology, and I will not bore you with my extensive experience, awards, grants, PI experience, publications, etc etc. My dissertation advisor was/is widely heralded as a towering genius, as was my first postdoctoral supervisor. Anyway, I am not getting many interviews either. What I will tell you is that the only thing anyone in academia wants to hire is a 29 year-old skipping out of a Harvard postdoc. Either that or someone's crony (son, son-in-law). (Unfortunately, there are lots of dumbfuks who go to Harvard because daddy buys them in, e.g., Kushner)

That, and HR understands NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING about your (or any) field. Good luck in getting your application past them.

I have a decent adjunct position now--excellent benefits, a pension, a very nice office, and some good job security, and loads of free time. I enjoy the teaching and the students. I have as little to do with the TT faculty as possible. The less interaction I have with any of my colleagues in my dept, the better! I have virtually no supervision and meet with my dept chair once a year (he's not a bad guy actually). These sorts of jobs can be an OK alternative, but ONLYif the place is unionized. Otherwise lecturers are treated HORRIBLY.

There is nothing that will screw you over like a "world class university". The corruption above the dept. chair level is astounding!

Sorry for your plight--I've been there, but at least things are better for me now.

Also, don't define yourself by your institution or your title. These institutions are not your friend. You need to take pride in your own work and screw the institution (they have absolutely no qualms about screwing you!).

You may never get the money or recognition you deserve; many of us with Ph.D.s never do. Try taking on a project that is all your own, maybe write a book!

« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 05:26:16 PM by ObviouslyNotAGolfer »

Freedomin5

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2019, 05:42:15 PM »
Are you willing to leave the country and take an expat contract? There is a HUGE HUGE need for someone with your qualifications in Shanghai. HUGE! I can’t overemphasize how great the need is over here. Bonus if you can also do psychoeducational assessments or psychodisgnostic assessments for ASD. Even if you only speak English you will have more work than you can handle, but you will also have the flexibility to choose how much you work.

If you work full time (5-6 days per week), and you are good at what you do (ie, patients/parents like you), you can build up your practice and make up to USD $200K (after tax) per year. The clinics that pay that much do require that you hold all appropriate practice licenses from your home country (so for you it would be a practice permit/license as a clinical psychologist).

I have to add a caveat though. Shanghai is a world class city, but living in China is not easy. You really need to be flexible and adaptable.

PM me if you would like more info.

Shrinkydink8

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2019, 06:08:55 PM »
Interesting idea about Shanghai.  If I were 10 years younger, I would absolutely. 

Another complicating factor- my husband and I are trying to conceive.  I'd really like to stay near family with little ones.  Where we live sucks, but my parents are only a few streets away, so I can call them in the middle of the day to let my dog out, etc.  They're incredibly helpful.

My hope is to stay in the general Midwest area.  I'd really rather not be more than  few hours' drive away from family.  I really value relationships, so I'd be ok with making less and being near family vs. high pay in a far away major city.

I hear you about the major universities not giving a sh*t about you. I've been learning that the hard way.  2 years ago I had my heart set on getting a clinical faculty position at the university I am an adjunct at (we are unionized too), but it's seeming like that's not possible.  I think the university in general is not really interested in the field of ASD, and the clinical faculty I know don't seem all that happy. 

I was happiest running a clinic, and am really hoping I get to do that again someday.

CoffeeR

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2019, 06:18:50 PM »
Sorry, I do not have suggestion to help you, but I do have a comment for those reading and who are thinking more education as in a PhD is the answer to their current dilemma. PhD's are in general over rated and you probably should not get one. Do a google search: "too many phds" and you will see that I am not alone in my opinion on this.

I have a PhD. I am not disillusioned, I've done well enough for myself, but in my case my non-PhD skills got me hired and kept me hired and my PhD served only to opened the door to work in a specific kind of industry (supporting other PhD's as in I speak their language).

Shrinkydink8

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2019, 06:30:41 PM »
Sorry, I do not have suggestion to help you, but I do have a comment for those reading and who are thinking more education as in a PhD is the answer to their current dilemma. PhD's are in general over rated and you probably should not get one. Do a google search: "too many phds" and you will see that I am not alone in my opinion on this.

I have a PhD. I am not disillusioned, I've done well enough for myself, but in my case my non-PhD skills got me hired and kept me hired and my PhD served only to opened the door to work in a specific kind of industry (supporting other PhD's as in I speak their language).

I see what you're saying, but in psychology, a Ph.D. is like a minimum requirement, the only way to ever be able to work independently.  I did get mine on a full ride, so I've actually paid nothing for any of my degrees.  I know many psychologists that started life waaaay in debt due to going to private schools.  I would tell any aspiring psychologist to only get a Ph.D. if you can get a full ride like I did.  We don't generally get paid enough to work off all the student debt.

Would you mind sharing what your other non-Ph.D. skills are?  Maybe I need to beef up in another area. 

FInding_peace

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2019, 07:38:32 PM »
It seems like you are exclusively looking for positions at universities, but have you considered setting up or joining a private practice?  It seems like with your skills and expertise, you could be charging kids or adults with high functioning autism $100+ an hour for private counseling, rather than dealing with the nonsense and high stress of academia.  At that rate, you'd only have to book 2 sessions a day to make what you've been making, so you could set your own hours and work at a very relaxed pace if you so chose.   

Now granted, I'm in a very different area from you, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but I do have a couple friends with PhDs in clinical psychology, and they seem to have decided private practice is the way to go. 

use2betrix

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2019, 09:06:12 PM »
It sounds like you are very limited due to your location, which is, unfortunately, a downfall of not compromising in that aspect.

I can think of 100 cities in the U.S. I’d rather live in than where I’m at. However, the income I can make here is hugely different. In fact, I chose this location solely for the income, not the other way around.

It is, like you, a sacrifice that I am just willing to put up with in the meantime.

Enjoy the positives you have with your living arrangement and locations that is very valuable to you, as opposed to getting too hard on yourself due to your income. It doesn’t sound like the income is directly just related to you, but largely due to limitations you have chosen to have.

Shrinkydink8

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2019, 06:53:16 AM »
It seems like you are exclusively looking for positions at universities, but have you considered setting up or joining a private practice?  It seems like with your skills and expertise, you could be charging kids or adults with high functioning autism $100+ an hour for private counseling, rather than dealing with the nonsense and high stress of academia.  At that rate, you'd only have to book 2 sessions a day to make what you've been making, so you could set your own hours and work at a very relaxed pace if you so chose.   

Now granted, I'm in a very different area from you, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but I do have a couple friends with PhDs in clinical psychology, and they seem to have decided private practice is the way to go.

Yeah, I think about that all the time.  I think the major thing holding me back is fear- I don't 100% know how to do that.  I figured I would take this year to figure out how to get started, do some research, learn from others, etc.  I'm not going to take that leap until my husband is done with this program and can earn some income to take care of the basics while I start a practice. I know from some friends that it can take a few months to get paid initially. 

Even though I'm bummed about making less, the one fortunate thing about living here is that it is incredibly affordable.  I know I can pay our bills for this upcoming year. 

Malkynn

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2019, 07:06:25 AM »
I also don't really understand why you are focusing on university positions since you don't seem to have much of a passion or background in research.

I have several friends who are clinical psychologists and they all charge $200+/hr in independent private clinical settings. Some work in a group practice, but most just rent a small office and work independently.

When I was looking into a clinical psych PhD and living with a clinical psych PhD, it seemed like private practice was the main career path out of the program.
My roommate was doing institutional work for the government with the prison system, but he was heavily focused on research from the get go.

It sounds like you will have to relocate in order to find the kind of institutional positions you want, but in the meantime, would it not benefit you to work clinically?

Could you not open a practice to treat primarily patients with autism? Or join a group practice??

fuzzy math

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2019, 07:24:44 AM »
I work for a university hospital with a major autism center. The wait I was quoted was 14 months. I am hearing from other areas that the wait is 2-3 years. I took my kiddo to a private group (big one with offices all over my state) and waited 3 months to see their PsychD for the autism diagnosis. After we got it, we were done with the psychologist and sent back to the Psychiatrist.

There's no way you can tell me your services aren't in demand. It sounds like you live in a really awful place. I specialize in a profession where there are only 4000 of my colleagues in the country. I"ve moved a lot and do not live near family. Sometimes there is only 1 job open in a state at a time.

I don't mean to be harsh, because I've been at the brink of your current position. Do I give up my steady income to stay somewhere and risk everything? In the end I made the tough decision and moved for the job again and again. It's almost like you're a child saying "no no I'm not going, you can't make me!" You have to decide whether your desire to have family near future kids outweighs the multiple years of hard ass work you put in for that PhD. It can be hard for women to get as much respect in their field, and you will seriously jeopardize your ability to find gainful work the longer you leave your resume like it is. In my experience a resume gap in the medical field indicates you've been fired, sued, or have personal issues (drugs, mental problems etc) preventing you from staying employed. I understand now might not be the right time to change everything (due to ttc), but is gainful employment something you never see yourself wanting in the future? It seems a shame considering so many regions are desperate for people of your specialty.

Teaching sucks and TT positions are dumb. Go into testing or therapy and you can work normal hours and make some serious money. Who knows, you might be able to find another Low to medium cost of living city and get your parents to move. for godsake you're a doctor! (Again, sorry for the face punch)

FIREby35

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2019, 07:38:06 AM »
It seems like you are exclusively looking for positions at universities, but have you considered setting up or joining a private practice?  It seems like with your skills and expertise, you could be charging kids or adults with high functioning autism $100+ an hour for private counseling, rather than dealing with the nonsense and high stress of academia.  At that rate, you'd only have to book 2 sessions a day to make what you've been making, so you could set your own hours and work at a very relaxed pace if you so chose.   

Now granted, I'm in a very different area from you, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but I do have a couple friends with PhDs in clinical psychology, and they seem to have decided private practice is the way to go.

Yeah, I think about that all the time.  I think the major thing holding me back is fear- I don't 100% know how to do that.  I figured I would take this year to figure out how to get started, do some research, learn from others, etc.  I'm not going to take that leap until my husband is done with this program and can earn some income to take care of the basics while I start a practice. I know from some friends that it can take a few months to get paid initially. 

Even though I'm bummed about making less, the one fortunate thing about living here is that it is incredibly affordable.  I know I can pay our bills for this upcoming year.

No one 100% knows how to do something when they start. I know this comes up for lawyers as well. All the jobs aren't working out, you can go private practice, but fear keeps many paralyzed and they never actually start on the path. I have no idea if private practice is for you or not. But I do know that starting a private practice business in serving the general public with a license to "practice" is something you learn to do on the job.

Start small, focus on learning and serving. The rest will flow from there.

Owning my private law practice has been the best thing that ever happened to me.

Good luck.

pbkmaine

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2019, 07:38:25 AM »
Instead of writing research papers, make your “hobby” for the next year learning how to set up your own practice. Find practices in or near your city. Ask them if they are hiring. Join whatever professional organization people who run their own practices belong to and go to meetings. Use world-class university’s alumni directory to find people in your field who have their own practices and contact them.

https://webaba.com/2017/04/05/starting-an-aba-clinic/

Shrinkydink8

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2019, 07:51:42 AM »
I work for a university hospital with a major autism center. The wait I was quoted was 14 months. I am hearing from other areas that the wait is 2-3 years. I took my kiddo to a private group (big one with offices all over my state) and waited 3 months to see their PsychD for the autism diagnosis. After we got it, we were done with the psychologist and sent back to the Psychiatrist.

There's no way you can tell me your services aren't in demand. It sounds like you live in a really awful place. I specialize in a profession where there are only 4000 of my colleagues in the country. I"ve moved a lot and do not live near family. Sometimes there is only 1 job open in a state at a time.

I don't mean to be harsh, because I've been at the brink of your current position. Do I give up my steady income to stay somewhere and risk everything? In the end I made the tough decision and moved for the job again and again. It's almost like you're a child saying "no no I'm not going, you can't make me!" You have to decide whether your desire to have family near future kids outweighs the multiple years of hard ass work you put in for that PhD. It can be hard for women to get as much respect in their field, and you will seriously jeopardize your ability to find gainful work the longer you leave your resume like it is. In my experience a resume gap in the medical field indicates you've been fired, sued, or have personal issues (drugs, mental problems etc) preventing you from staying employed. I understand now might not be the right time to change everything (due to ttc), but is gainful employment something you never see yourself wanting in the future? It seems a shame considering so many regions are desperate for people of your specialty.

Teaching sucks and TT positions are dumb. Go into testing or therapy and you can work normal hours and make some serious money. Who knows, you might be able to find another Low to medium cost of living city and get your parents to move. for godsake you're a doctor! (Again, sorry for the face punch)

Not upset at all.  I get what you're trying to say.  I honestly think my parents would follow me if I settled somewhere else, to be near a potential grandchild.  I have to wait out this year for my husband to finish this program (thankfully it's incredibly low cost), but I should focus on working with others to learn more about the private practice world.  When I was running a clinic, I did like figuring out how to make the practice more efficient, how to advertise services, etc.  I just started one day a week in a friend's private practice, and I'll focus on learning the ins and outs of insurance billing, etc.

Shrinkydink8

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2019, 07:56:44 AM »
Instead of writing research papers, make your “hobby” for the next year learning how to set up your own practice. Find practices in or near your city. Ask them if they are hiring. Join whatever professional organization people who run their own practices belong to and go to meetings. Use world-class university’s alumni directory to find people in your field who have their own practices and contact them.

https://webaba.com/2017/04/05/starting-an-aba-clinic/


Great idea, I should definitely put my focus there.  I know my services must be in demand, I have to position myself to meet that demand.  I really love this field and what I do, so I'm not going into any other field or population. 

fuzzy math

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2019, 08:09:13 AM »
Instead of writing research papers, make your “hobby” for the next year learning how to set up your own practice. Find practices in or near your city. Ask them if they are hiring. Join whatever professional organization people who run their own practices belong to and go to meetings. Use world-class university’s alumni directory to find people in your field who have their own practices and contact them.

https://webaba.com/2017/04/05/starting-an-aba-clinic/


Great idea, I should definitely put my focus there.  I know my services must be in demand, I have to position myself to meet that demand.  I really love this field and what I do, so I'm not going into any other field or population.

Also worth noting, I would have travelled far to get the testing done (rather than wait 14 months) and once given an autism diagnosis, state / county disability resources open up lots of options for families in terms of funding and transportation. Can you give an idea of the population of your area, how far it is from a huge city, and how much rural population there is in the metro area? Lots of people here drive in from the boonies (towns of 200 - 10,000) to get services. If you could position yourself in some suburb or away from the university area, you could capture a lot of clients.

Noodle

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2019, 08:33:30 AM »
I'm sorry to hear that you're having a rough time.

The more goals you're trying to meet, the harder it is to make things work. It sounds like you have had three goals...stay near family, specialize in autism, find a work situation where you are working for another entity instead of running your own practice. Meeting two of those goals is doable, but meeting three of them just may not be, because there are limited opportunities that check so many boxes, and many people who want them. I have been in a similar situation--I have specialized skills, lived in a city I loved, and wanted to live near family. Tried to make it work for a few years, but it involved too many compromises that were making me unhappy, and I ended up choosing to move to a different city that I liked less (but where I could work, and had other family).

Since you don't want to change specialties (and I totally understand that) you are either looking at moving at least two households, which involves a lot of complicated family stuff, or trying to figure out if you could make the private practice thing work. So instead of feeling defeated, perhaps you could look at it from the point of view of "I genuinely tried as hard as I could to make the institutional route work, and now I'm going to put the next year into figuring out what a private practice might look like." Working at someone else's practice (or maybe a couple of different practices, assuming that would work with your family budget) seems like a good way to research what that route could look like.

I also recommend the book "Decisive" by Chip and Dan Heath to people in your kind of situation. It's not groundbreaking information, but they synthesize a lot into an easy-to-read format...as someone who is a psychologist this might not be new to you, but it gave me some practical advice about where to start in making decisions about complicated issues.


Shrinkydink8

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2019, 08:56:54 AM »
I'm sorry to hear that you're having a rough time.

The more goals you're trying to meet, the harder it is to make things work. It sounds like you have had three goals...stay near family, specialize in autism, find a work situation where you are working for another entity instead of running your own practice. Meeting two of those goals is doable, but meeting three of them just may not be, because there are limited opportunities that check so many boxes, and many people who want them. I have been in a similar situation--I have specialized skills, lived in a city I loved, and wanted to live near family. Tried to make it work for a few years, but it involved too many compromises that were making me unhappy, and I ended up choosing to move to a different city that I liked less (but where I could work, and had other family).

Since you don't want to change specialties (and I totally understand that) you are either looking at moving at least two households, which involves a lot of complicated family stuff, or trying to figure out if you could make the private practice thing work. So instead of feeling defeated, perhaps you could look at it from the point of view of "I genuinely tried as hard as I could to make the institutional route work, and now I'm going to put the next year into figuring out what a private practice might look like." Working at someone else's practice (or maybe a couple of different practices, assuming that would work with your family budget) seems like a good way to research what that route could look like.

I also recommend the book "Decisive" by Chip and Dan Heath to people in your kind of situation. It's not groundbreaking information, but they synthesize a lot into an easy-to-read format...as someone who is a psychologist this might not be new to you, but it gave me some practical advice about where to start in making decisions about complicated issues.


That's a good way to put it.  I can naturally be stubborn, which is good some times, and not at others.  So, yeah, I have been trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, and really frustrated I couldn't make it work. 

I really love the service provision part of my field, and figuring out new programs/services to offer, which would fit well with a private practice field.  I'm a little confused myself as to why I put such a high priority on the university positions.  I guess I have been looking for validation, like if I'm "good enough" to work there, then I must be good!

I love to read, so I'll check out that book.  Thanks for the helpful suggestion.

pbkmaine

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2019, 09:05:57 AM »
I want to echo something said upthread. One of the most valuable services you can provide is hooking people up to government-funded services and programs in your area, your state, and nationally. Having deep knowledge of those programs, and getting to know the people who run them, will be invaluable to your clients.

Laserjet3051

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2019, 01:20:20 PM »
I have a PhD in the biological sciences, have experienced a lot of what youve been going through, and can really empathize with your specific situation. And this is from someone who lives in a dense metro area.  We feel like we should be entitled to live in a particular location. we have families, home, friends, other roots. But the job market cares not. Moving, sometimes frequently, out of necessity , may be in order if we want to stay employed in our chosen discipline, and get paid fairly. We both know $25/hr is nothing more than gross exploitation of a PhD. We should not allow it. I really dont want to move but my narrow specialty seems to require it. Life sometimes isnt fair.

2Cent

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2019, 03:31:44 AM »
If you're going to have kids, you need flexibility or you will pay more for daycare than you earn. A friend of mine started an online speech therapy class that earns a steady side income. Would you be able to do something similar with autism? Training kids/parents how to deal with it. The good thing is you can put yourself with all your qualifications on the market, so you get paid what you're worth. And if it takes off you can go full time. Also a benefit is that you can get customers from silicon valley and other wealthy areas that have high autism rates while living in your current low cost area.

Also, a lot of attention is given to kids with autism in education, but what happens to the adults? They are expected to just get a job and work. In fact, I know many tech companies have (semi)autistic people working there. Making them more productive would be quite valuable.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 03:37:18 AM by 2Cent »

soccerluvof4

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2019, 03:48:41 AM »
To the OP and others. This makes for a tough read when your DD is in University and this is what she is studying and loving. Sorry to hear about your struggles and I hope you can get this figured out. What would you have done different or suggest she should do to avoid this? (My DD)
Following along thanks not with the intention of stepping on your thread but perhaps we can both benefit from it
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 05:13:54 AM by soccerluvof4 »

Freedomin5

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2019, 04:04:35 AM »
@soccerluvof4

As someone with a doctorate in a social sciences field, I’ve found that many of my PhD peers look down on industry jobs. Many seem to think that academia is the Best, and everything else is second rate. Academia also pays very little and is not a very stable career as funding can easily get cut or you’re constantly applying to grants to fund your research and your position. I knew that I would go into industry all along (have a business background), and never aimed for academia. It’s worked out really well for me. Some of my professors who did part academia/part consulting were making around $500k per year. Because we have multiple income streams, it actually creates a lot more job stability because if I lose one job, I still have one or two to fall back on that I can grow into full-time work.

My advice to your daughter should she choose to pursue graduate studies at the PhD level is not to become too big for her britches. Consider industry positions. Or a combination of industry work/consulting and university research. And if it’s psychology that she’s interested in, go all the way to the PhD/PsyD level, and take business courses as electives. Many psychs go into private practice. Their clinical skills are great. Their business management skills...not so much.

Malkynn

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2019, 04:14:03 AM »
To the OP and others. This makes for a tough read when you DD is in University and this is what she is studying and loving. What would you have done different or suggest she should do to avoid this?
Following along thanks.

OP is looking for very very particular work in a bad market. With her qualifications, she has an enormous amount of lucrative work available to her.

Your daughter should research the realities of various career options before committing to any grad school programs.
She has an astronomical number of resources available to her to figure these things out: probably a career center at her school, her professors, and even just the internet.

It really doesn't take much to figure out what doors open and what doors close with various grad school programs. Just tell her that doing more school doesn't automatically make your job prospects better and that she has to decide carefully how she wants to utilize her education to build her career.

2Cent

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2019, 05:59:59 AM »
As someone with a doctorate in a social sciences field, I’ve found that many of my PhD peers look down on industry jobs. Many seem to think that academia is the Best, and everything else is second rate.
I recognize this so much. I feel there is a very strong pressure from professors on PhD students to do "pure" research work and that going for better paying jobs in industry is selling out. And ofcourse young people don't realize how much they are going to need that money later. It would be good that instead of promoting themselves they would be honest about the prospects that students have.

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2019, 12:02:45 PM »
As someone with a doctorate in a social sciences field, I’ve found that many of my PhD peers look down on industry jobs. Many seem to think that academia is the Best, and everything else is second rate.
I recognize this so much. I feel there is a very strong pressure from professors on PhD students to do "pure" research work and that going for better paying jobs in industry is selling out.
Of course there is pressure... Professors directly benefit from the cheap labor of PhD students and PostDoc's. Universities benefit from the underpaid lecturers with higher degrees who have been made to believe that this (e.g service course teaching) is their best possible fate.

soccerluvof4

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2019, 01:09:29 PM »
To the OP and others. This makes for a tough read when you DD is in University and this is what she is studying and loving. What would you have done different or suggest she should do to avoid this?
Following along thanks.

OP is looking for very very particular work in a bad market. With her qualifications, she has an enormous amount of lucrative work available to her.

Your daughter should research the realities of various career options before committing to any grad school programs.
She has an astronomical number of resources available to her to figure these things out: probably a career center at her school, her professors, and even just the internet.

It really doesn't take much to figure out what doors open and what doors close with various grad school programs. Just tell her that doing more school doesn't automatically make your job prospects better and that she has to decide carefully how she wants to utilize her education to build her career.

Point taken. She claims to like forensic psychology but not sure where that would lead her. My thing is she is going to the #2 Big Ten school out of State on a full ride and be a shame to waste a 250k scholarship for a 35k a year potential Job. I will see what I can find. But even so it doesn't seem like a 4 year degree would do her much anyhow in that the Psychology Field.

Malkynn

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2019, 01:58:47 PM »
To the OP and others. This makes for a tough read when you DD is in University and this is what she is studying and loving. What would you have done different or suggest she should do to avoid this?
Following along thanks.

OP is looking for very very particular work in a bad market. With her qualifications, she has an enormous amount of lucrative work available to her.

Your daughter should research the realities of various career options before committing to any grad school programs.
She has an astronomical number of resources available to her to figure these things out: probably a career center at her school, her professors, and even just the internet.

It really doesn't take much to figure out what doors open and what doors close with various grad school programs. Just tell her that doing more school doesn't automatically make your job prospects better and that she has to decide carefully how she wants to utilize her education to build her career.

Point taken. She claims to like forensic psychology but not sure where that would lead her. My thing is she is going to the #2 Big Ten school out of State on a full ride and be a shame to waste a 250k scholarship for a 35k a year potential Job. I will see what I can find. But even so it doesn't seem like a 4 year degree would do her much anyhow in that the Psychology Field.

This is just my personal opinion, feel free to disregard it, but this is really her challenge to figure out.

Speaking as someone who did a psych degree myself, the process of looking for career advice, googling, talking to profs, learning the ins and outs of what grad programs I had available to me, what they would cost and what kind of careers they lead to. It was really the beginning of me taking control of my own career and realising that my future was in my own hands.

Again, my personal perspective, as I'm not about to tell anyone how to parent, but if it were my daughter, I would sit her down and discuss how important her upcoming life/school/career decisions are, point her to a few really good resources, and let her figure it out from there, with an offer of endless supportive talks and advice along the way.

I put literally hundreds of hours into researching what my future could be, what skills I could learn to be marketable, and how to network, and that process has served me spectacularly throughout my entire career.

The process of figuring out "what the hell do I want to do with my career" doesn't end at university. It's a career-long process, and the sooner she learns the skills to handle that, the stronger she'll be in the future if/when something happens in her career and she needs to make tough decisions and intimidating moves like the OP.

Had I not done my *own* research and made my *own* decisions, I would have continued on down the path that my mentors had decided for me and I would have been miserable.

An undergrad in psych won't lead to any job, that's absolutely certain, but that's not to say that it won't help her immensely in her career. People natter on about STEM degrees, but I've been in enough environments with enough range of people to see some of the distinct advantages that a background like psych can offer.

Certain degrees open certain doors and close many others. Other degrees open virtually no doors, but can make you stand out once you find your own doors to walk through.

The vast majority of "good" jobs out there don't require a specific degree, so if grad school isn't her thing, then she should start thinking about what kind of work she wants to do in the future because with a psych degree, she has an enormous range of industries and roles to aim for.

Lastly, she should be far more concerned with figuring out what type of work she wants to do and what it takes to build that type of career, because like OP, she's going to need to understand the level of sacrifice necessary for each of her options.

Everything in life is a trade off.

pbkmaine

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2019, 02:10:21 PM »
I have an undergraduate degree in English and an MBA in Finance. My employers LOVED this combination, as they were always desperate for those who could explain complex financial topics to clients. My first day at every job I held brought writing and speaking assignments that were agonizing for my colleagues but super fun for me. And I would get weeks to write articles that took me a few hours. The arts and the sciences combine beautifully.

soccerluvof4

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2019, 02:20:07 PM »
To the OP and others. This makes for a tough read when you DD is in University and this is what she is studying and loving. What would you have done different or suggest she should do to avoid this?
Following along thanks.

OP is looking for very very particular work in a bad market. With her qualifications, she has an enormous amount of lucrative work available to her.

Your daughter should research the realities of various career options before committing to any grad school programs.
She has an astronomical number of resources available to her to figure these things out: probably a career center at her school, her professors, and even just the internet.

It really doesn't take much to figure out what doors open and what doors close with various grad school programs. Just tell her that doing more school doesn't automatically make your job prospects better and that she has to decide carefully how she wants to utilize her education to build her career.

Point taken. She claims to like forensic psychology but not sure where that would lead her. My thing is she is going to the #2 Big Ten school out of State on a full ride and be a shame to waste a 250k scholarship for a 35k a year potential Job. I will see what I can find. But even so it doesn't seem like a 4 year degree would do her much anyhow in that the Psychology Field.

This is just my personal opinion, feel free to disregard it, but this is really her challenge to figure out.

Speaking as someone who did a psych degree myself, the process of looking for career advice, googling, talking to profs, learning the ins and outs of what grad programs I had available to me, what they would cost and what kind of careers they lead to. It was really the beginning of me taking control of my own career and realising that my future was in my own hands.

Again, my personal perspective, as I'm not about to tell anyone how to parent, but if it were my daughter, I would sit her down and discuss how important her upcoming life/school/career decisions are, point her to a few really good resources, and let her figure it out from there, with an offer of endless supportive talks and advice along the way.

I put literally hundreds of hours into researching what my future could be, what skills I could learn to be marketable, and how to network, and that process has served me spectacularly throughout my entire career.

The process of figuring out "what the hell do I want to do with my career" doesn't end at university. It's a career-long process, and the sooner she learns the skills to handle that, the stronger she'll be in the future if/when something happens in her career and she needs to make tough decisions and intimidating moves like the OP.

Had I not done my *own* research and made my *own* decisions, I would have continued on down the path that my mentors had decided for me and I would have been miserable.

An undergrad in psych won't lead to any job, that's absolutely certain, but that's not to say that it won't help her immensely in her career. People natter on about STEM degrees, but I've been in enough environments with enough range of people to see some of the distinct advantages that a background like psych can offer.

Certain degrees open certain doors and close many others. Other degrees open virtually no doors, but can make you stand out once you find your own doors to walk through.

The vast majority of "good" jobs out there don't require a specific degree, so if grad school isn't her thing, then she should start thinking about what kind of work she wants to do in the future because with a psych degree, she has an enormous range of industries and roles to aim for.

Lastly, she should be far more concerned with figuring out what type of work she wants to do and what it takes to build that type of career, because like OP, she's going to need to understand the level of sacrifice necessary for each of her options.

Everything in life is a trade off.


No i get where your coming from and appreciate your insight. My point of question comes more from she is an athlete that pretty much gets everything handed to her and is surrounded by alot of rich kids. Were not like that and when she is telling me a story about someone on the the team and how there parents are sending them there car or whatever I know its not that she thinks its stupid like she makes it out to be but more a button or message she is trying to send me but i also didnt just fall of the turnip truck either. The other part of this is she does have a very good work ethic and made honor roll as well BUT she has never liked ANYTHING EVER! and has even mentioned how everyone on her teams knows what they want to do already and so on. I also know that most people dont really use there career and send her and talk to her about jobs I read about etc.. and what the pay etc.. I dont care what she does being totally honest as long as she is happy. Its just like I said I or my DW have never been able to get her to even say well I like this.. or maybe this so on one hand were excited at least she has found something she likes and want to help guide her BUT on the other hand also want to point out and be honest with her where this may or may not get her. Again I do appreciate what your saying. She does have as I said a good work ethic and always will despite the free ride and stipen to work any chance she gets so Just trying to help her out with ideas and suggestions is all. So she can keep saying "No i dont like that" lol

Shrinkydink8

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2019, 07:35:56 PM »
As someone with a doctorate in a social sciences field, I’ve found that many of my PhD peers look down on industry jobs. Many seem to think that academia is the Best, and everything else is second rate.
I recognize this so much. I feel there is a very strong pressure from professors on PhD students to do "pure" research work and that going for better paying jobs in industry is selling out. And ofcourse young people don't realize how much they are going to need that money later. It would be good that instead of promoting themselves they would be honest about the prospects that students have.


Ahh yes, this!  I felt like in my graduate program (I really did enjoy my program), it was looked down upon to worry about "making money."  As though it's shameful to want to make a decent living. 

Shrinkydink8

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2019, 07:37:02 PM »
If you're going to have kids, you need flexibility or you will pay more for daycare than you earn. A friend of mine started an online speech therapy class that earns a steady side income. Would you be able to do something similar with autism? Training kids/parents how to deal with it. The good thing is you can put yourself with all your qualifications on the market, so you get paid what you're worth. And if it takes off you can go full time. Also a benefit is that you can get customers from silicon valley and other wealthy areas that have high autism rates while living in your current low cost area.

Also, a lot of attention is given to kids with autism in education, but what happens to the adults? They are expected to just get a job and work. In fact, I know many tech companies have (semi)autistic people working there. Making them more productive would be quite valuable.

Good point.  I actually enjoy the entire age range, from toddlers through young adults.  Plenty of folks focus on the young ones, and think age 8 is "old."  I could always focus on building up a practice on the clients that others ignore.

Shrinkydink8

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2019, 07:43:00 PM »
To the OP and others. This makes for a tough read when you DD is in University and this is what she is studying and loving. What would you have done different or suggest she should do to avoid this?
Following along thanks.

OP is looking for very very particular work in a bad market. With her qualifications, she has an enormous amount of lucrative work available to her.

Your daughter should research the realities of various career options before committing to any grad school programs.
She has an astronomical number of resources available to her to figure these things out: probably a career center at her school, her professors, and even just the internet.

It really doesn't take much to figure out what doors open and what doors close with various grad school programs. Just tell her that doing more school doesn't automatically make your job prospects better and that she has to decide carefully how she wants to utilize her education to build her career.

Point taken. She claims to like forensic psychology but not sure where that would lead her. My thing is she is going to the #2 Big Ten school out of State on a full ride and be a shame to waste a 250k scholarship for a 35k a year potential Job. I will see what I can find. But even so it doesn't seem like a 4 year degree would do her much anyhow in that the Psychology Field.

This is just my personal opinion, feel free to disregard it, but this is really her challenge to figure out.

Speaking as someone who did a psych degree myself, the process of looking for career advice, googling, talking to profs, learning the ins and outs of what grad programs I had available to me, what they would cost and what kind of careers they lead to. It was really the beginning of me taking control of my own career and realising that my future was in my own hands.

Again, my personal perspective, as I'm not about to tell anyone how to parent, but if it were my daughter, I would sit her down and discuss how important her upcoming life/school/career decisions are, point her to a few really good resources, and let her figure it out from there, with an offer of endless supportive talks and advice along the way.

I put literally hundreds of hours into researching what my future could be, what skills I could learn to be marketable, and how to network, and that process has served me spectacularly throughout my entire career.

The process of figuring out "what the hell do I want to do with my career" doesn't end at university. It's a career-long process, and the sooner she learns the skills to handle that, the stronger she'll be in the future if/when something happens in her career and she needs to make tough decisions and intimidating moves like the OP.

Had I not done my *own* research and made my *own* decisions, I would have continued on down the path that my mentors had decided for me and I would have been miserable.

An undergrad in psych won't lead to any job, that's absolutely certain, but that's not to say that it won't help her immensely in her career. People natter on about STEM degrees, but I've been in enough environments with enough range of people to see some of the distinct advantages that a background like psych can offer.

Certain degrees open certain doors and close many others. Other degrees open virtually no doors, but can make you stand out once you find your own doors to walk through.

The vast majority of "good" jobs out there don't require a specific degree, so if grad school isn't her thing, then she should start thinking about what kind of work she wants to do in the future because with a psych degree, she has an enormous range of industries and roles to aim for.

Lastly, she should be far more concerned with figuring out what type of work she wants to do and what it takes to build that type of career, because like OP, she's going to need to understand the level of sacrifice necessary for each of her options.

Everything in life is a trade off.


No i get where your coming from and appreciate your insight. My point of question comes more from she is an athlete that pretty much gets everything handed to her and is surrounded by alot of rich kids. Were not like that and when she is telling me a story about someone on the the team and how there parents are sending them there car or whatever I know its not that she thinks its stupid like she makes it out to be but more a button or message she is trying to send me but i also didnt just fall of the turnip truck either. The other part of this is she does have a very good work ethic and made honor roll as well BUT she has never liked ANYTHING EVER! and has even mentioned how everyone on her teams knows what they want to do already and so on. I also know that most people dont really use there career and send her and talk to her about jobs I read about etc.. and what the pay etc.. I dont care what she does being totally honest as long as she is happy. Its just like I said I or my DW have never been able to get her to even say well I like this.. or maybe this so on one hand were excited at least she has found something she likes and want to help guide her BUT on the other hand also want to point out and be honest with her where this may or may not get her. Again I do appreciate what your saying. She does have as I said a good work ethic and always will despite the free ride and stipen to work any chance she gets so Just trying to help her out with ideas and suggestions is all. So she can keep saying "No i dont like that" lol

I have advised fresh young students who want to immediately jump into advanced degree programs in my field, without ever having worked in it.  I always tell them to work in the field first, for about a year, before they take the leap for signing up for expensive graduate programs.  My field, autism, sounds great, like you work with all these cute kids and their parents are so grateful for your help, etc., but then students don't realize they'll be doing some very hard work, sometimes with kids who can be aggressive, parents can get upset with you, etc.  I love it, but it's not all rainbows and sunshine.

So after college your DD should try out some work that she thinks sounds interesting.  I don't regret going to grad school at all, I do have a lot of marketable skills and it was free, but I do realize in retrospect that I would have probably been a more organized student if I had worked first between undergrad and grad school.  I did flounder around a bit in getting my dissertation done, b/c I had been a student my whole life and I didn't feel any pressure to get done anytime soon.

soccerluvof4

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2019, 03:10:19 AM »
To the OP and others. This makes for a tough read when you DD is in University and this is what she is studying and loving. What would you have done different or suggest she should do to avoid this?
Following along thanks.

OP is looking for very very particular work in a bad market. With her qualifications, she has an enormous amount of lucrative work available to her.

Your daughter should research the realities of various career options before committing to any grad school programs.
She has an astronomical number of resources available to her to figure these things out: probably a career center at her school, her professors, and even just the internet.

It really doesn't take much to figure out what doors open and what doors close with various grad school programs. Just tell her that doing more school doesn't automatically make your job prospects better and that she has to decide carefully how she wants to utilize her education to build her career.

Point taken. She claims to like forensic psychology but not sure where that would lead her. My thing is she is going to the #2 Big Ten school out of State on a full ride and be a shame to waste a 250k scholarship for a 35k a year potential Job. I will see what I can find. But even so it doesn't seem like a 4 year degree would do her much anyhow in that the Psychology Field.

This is just my personal opinion, feel free to disregard it, but this is really her challenge to figure out.

Speaking as someone who did a psych degree myself, the process of looking for career advice, googling, talking to profs, learning the ins and outs of what grad programs I had available to me, what they would cost and what kind of careers they lead to. It was really the beginning of me taking control of my own career and realising that my future was in my own hands.

Again, my personal perspective, as I'm not about to tell anyone how to parent, but if it were my daughter, I would sit her down and discuss how important her upcoming life/school/career decisions are, point her to a few really good resources, and let her figure it out from there, with an offer of endless supportive talks and advice along the way.

I put literally hundreds of hours into researching what my future could be, what skills I could learn to be marketable, and how to network, and that process has served me spectacularly throughout my entire career.

The process of figuring out "what the hell do I want to do with my career" doesn't end at university. It's a career-long process, and the sooner she learns the skills to handle that, the stronger she'll be in the future if/when something happens in her career and she needs to make tough decisions and intimidating moves like the OP.

Had I not done my *own* research and made my *own* decisions, I would have continued on down the path that my mentors had decided for me and I would have been miserable.

An undergrad in psych won't lead to any job, that's absolutely certain, but that's not to say that it won't help her immensely in her career. People natter on about STEM degrees, but I've been in enough environments with enough range of people to see some of the distinct advantages that a background like psych can offer.

Certain degrees open certain doors and close many others. Other degrees open virtually no doors, but can make you stand out once you find your own doors to walk through.

The vast majority of "good" jobs out there don't require a specific degree, so if grad school isn't her thing, then she should start thinking about what kind of work she wants to do in the future because with a psych degree, she has an enormous range of industries and roles to aim for.

Lastly, she should be far more concerned with figuring out what type of work she wants to do and what it takes to build that type of career, because like OP, she's going to need to understand the level of sacrifice necessary for each of her options.

Everything in life is a trade off.


No i get where your coming from and appreciate your insight. My point of question comes more from she is an athlete that pretty much gets everything handed to her and is surrounded by alot of rich kids. Were not like that and when she is telling me a story about someone on the the team and how there parents are sending them there car or whatever I know its not that she thinks its stupid like she makes it out to be but more a button or message she is trying to send me but i also didnt just fall of the turnip truck either. The other part of this is she does have a very good work ethic and made honor roll as well BUT she has never liked ANYTHING EVER! and has even mentioned how everyone on her teams knows what they want to do already and so on. I also know that most people dont really use there career and send her and talk to her about jobs I read about etc.. and what the pay etc.. I dont care what she does being totally honest as long as she is happy. Its just like I said I or my DW have never been able to get her to even say well I like this.. or maybe this so on one hand were excited at least she has found something she likes and want to help guide her BUT on the other hand also want to point out and be honest with her where this may or may not get her. Again I do appreciate what your saying. She does have as I said a good work ethic and always will despite the free ride and stipen to work any chance she gets so Just trying to help her out with ideas and suggestions is all. So she can keep saying "No i dont like that" lol

I have advised fresh young students who want to immediately jump into advanced degree programs in my field, without ever having worked in it.  I always tell them to work in the field first, for about a year, before they take the leap for signing up for expensive graduate programs.  My field, autism, sounds great, like you work with all these cute kids and their parents are so grateful for your help, etc., but then students don't realize they'll be doing some very hard work, sometimes with kids who can be aggressive, parents can get upset with you, etc.  I love it, but it's not all rainbows and sunshine.

So after college your DD should try out some work that she thinks sounds interesting.  I don't regret going to grad school at all, I do have a lot of marketable skills and it was free, but I do realize in retrospect that I would have probably been a more organized student if I had worked first between undergrad and grad school.  I did flounder around a bit in getting my dissertation done, b/c I had been a student my whole life and I didn't feel any pressure to get done anytime soon.



Good point because if there is one thing she is strong about is she doesn't want to work with kids. Maybe someone could give me some different Ideas of using a degree like this as I mentioned she though she would like Forensic Psychology but just so I can open conversation with her.

Malkynn

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2019, 04:02:22 AM »
Good point because if there is one thing she is strong about is she doesn't want to work with kids. Maybe someone could give me some different Ideas of using a degree like this as I mentioned she though she would like Forensic Psychology but just so I can open conversation with her.

As I mentioned already, there isn't a single job out there that specifically requires an undergrad psychology degree, so it's really impossible to answer.

Very, very few undergrad degrees qualify people for any particular type of career. Undergrad degrees open up doors to careers that require "a degree". So the kinds of jobs she can get with a psych degree are the exact same jobs she could get with a degree in anthropology, sociology, linguistics, history, cognitive science, etc.

I think the best thing you can do is start the conversation with: "have you thought about what you want to do after you graduate? Have you considered what kind of career you want now that all of these doors are open to you? Or are you considering more school and have you done a lot of research into those options and where they lead?"

Dicey

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2019, 04:13:37 AM »
To the OP and others. This makes for a tough read when you DD is in University and this is what she is studying and loving. What would you have done different or suggest she should do to avoid this?
Following along thanks.

OP is looking for very very particular work in a bad market. With her qualifications, she has an enormous amount of lucrative work available to her.

Your daughter should research the realities of various career options before committing to any grad school programs.
She has an astronomical number of resources available to her to figure these things out: probably a career center at her school, her professors, and even just the internet.

It really doesn't take much to figure out what doors open and what doors close with various grad school programs. Just tell her that doing more school doesn't automatically make your job prospects better and that she has to decide carefully how she wants to utilize her education to build her career.

Point taken. She claims to like forensic psychology but not sure where that would lead her. My thing is she is going to the #2 Big Ten school out of State on a full ride and be a shame to waste a 250k scholarship for a 35k a year potential Job. I will see what I can find. But even so it doesn't seem like a 4 year degree would do her much anyhow in that the Psychology Field.

This is just my personal opinion, feel free to disregard it, but this is really her challenge to figure out.

Speaking as someone who did a psych degree myself, the process of looking for career advice, googling, talking to profs, learning the ins and outs of what grad programs I had available to me, what they would cost and what kind of careers they lead to. It was really the beginning of me taking control of my own career and realising that my future was in my own hands.

Again, my personal perspective, as I'm not about to tell anyone how to parent, but if it were my daughter, I would sit her down and discuss how important her upcoming life/school/career decisions are, point her to a few really good resources, and let her figure it out from there, with an offer of endless supportive talks and advice along the way.

I put literally hundreds of hours into researching what my future could be, what skills I could learn to be marketable, and how to network, and that process has served me spectacularly throughout my entire career.

The process of figuring out "what the hell do I want to do with my career" doesn't end at university. It's a career-long process, and the sooner she learns the skills to handle that, the stronger she'll be in the future if/when something happens in her career and she needs to make tough decisions and intimidating moves like the OP.

Had I not done my *own* research and made my *own* decisions, I would have continued on down the path that my mentors had decided for me and I would have been miserable.

An undergrad in psych won't lead to any job, that's absolutely certain, but that's not to say that it won't help her immensely in her career. People natter on about STEM degrees, but I've been in enough environments with enough range of people to see some of the distinct advantages that a background like psych can offer.

Certain degrees open certain doors and close many others. Other degrees open virtually no doors, but can make you stand out once you find your own doors to walk through.

The vast majority of "good" jobs out there don't require a specific degree, so if grad school isn't her thing, then she should start thinking about what kind of work she wants to do in the future because with a psych degree, she has an enormous range of industries and roles to aim for.

Lastly, she should be far more concerned with figuring out what type of work she wants to do and what it takes to build that type of career, because like OP, she's going to need to understand the level of sacrifice necessary for each of her options.

Everything in life is a trade off.
When it's 3am and I can't sleep, I read on my not-an-ipad thingy. I blow the screen up to make reading easier. When I do so, I can't see who the poster is. Sometimes I can tell who it is by the details mentioned (waving to @FIREby35 ). And @soccerluvof4, your style is distinctive, as are your challenges with insomnia.  When I read ^this^, it was so good, my sleep addled brain said, "Ooh, this is excellent. Sounds like Malkynn." And so it is. Your insights on a wide variety of topics are priceless. Thank you.

Freedomin5

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2019, 04:19:44 AM »
If she likes forensic psych, she will need to go all the way to the doctoral level. You basically can’t get a psych job with only a bachelors. I did a rotation in a forensic hospital, and the psychologists there were all PhDs, licensed clinical psychologists. Most of them also were ABPP-certified in forensic psych (which is an additional certification stating that you have specialized training in a certainty area of psychology beyond PhD level).

Forensic psych tends to pay really really well. I think it may be one of the most well-paying areas of clinical psychology. (As long as you’re a practicing clinician)

Malkynn

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2019, 05:09:39 AM »
When it's 3am and I can't sleep, I read on my not-an-ipad thingy. I blow the screen up to make reading easier. When I do so, I can't see who the poster is. Sometimes I can tell who it is by the details mentioned (waving to @FIREby35 ). And @soccerluvof4, your style is distinctive, as are your challenges with insomnia.  When I read ^this^, it was so good, my sleep addled brain said, "Ooh, this is excellent. Sounds like Malkynn." And so it is. Your insights on a wide variety of topics are priceless. Thank you.

Awe thanks.

Yeah, almost any time you see the words "trade off", it's a pretty safe bet that it's one of my posts. I'm extremely repetitive. Lol

Shrinkydink8

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2019, 06:20:19 AM »


OP is looking for very very particular work in a bad market. With her qualifications, she has an enormous amount of lucrative work available to her.

Your daughter should research the realities of various career options before committing to any grad school programs.

I have advised fresh young students who want to immediately jump into advanced degree programs in my field, without ever having worked in it.  I always tell them to work in the field first, for about a year, before they take the leap for signing up for expensive graduate programs.  My field, autism, sounds great, like you work with all these cute kids and their parents are so grateful for your help, etc., but then students don't realize they'll be doing some very hard work, sometimes with kids who can be aggressive, parents can get upset with you, etc.  I love it, but it's not all rainbows and sunshine.

So after college your DD should try out some work that she thinks sounds interesting.  I don't regret going to grad school at all, I do have a lot of marketable skills and it was free, but I do realize in retrospect that I would have probably been a more organized student if I had worked first between undergrad and grad school.  I did flounder around a bit in getting my dissertation done, b/c I had been a student my whole life and I didn't feel any pressure to get done anytime soon.
[/quote]



Good point because if there is one thing she is strong about is she doesn't want to work with kids. Maybe someone could give me some different Ideas of using a degree like this as I mentioned she though she would like Forensic Psychology but just so I can open conversation with her.
[/quote]

See if she can shadow a forensic psychologist for day when she's off in the summer.  Many forensic psychologists work in hospitals or prisons, court systems.  I would really really emphasize watching what a forensic psychologist does.  I've also seen many psych undergrads, who grew up watching CSI, think that the work of a forensic psychologist is glamorous and they'll be running around chasing serial killers.  In reality, they do suicide-risk assessments and testify in child custody hearings.  I actually worked in a prison briefly- not for me. Too depressing being surrounded by cinder blocks and people in chains.  Pay is good, the trade-off being that it could be dangerous.

Oh, and I also thought very firmly I never wanted to work with kids.  Until I randomly took a job working with a young child with ASD.  That changed everything.

soccerluvof4

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2019, 03:39:56 AM »
To the OP and others. This makes for a tough read when you DD is in University and this is what she is studying and loving. What would you have done different or suggest she should do to avoid this?
Following along thanks.

OP is looking for very very particular work in a bad market. With her qualifications, she has an enormous amount of lucrative work available to her.

Your daughter should research the realities of various career options before committing to any grad school programs.
She has an astronomical number of resources available to her to figure these things out: probably a career center at her school, her professors, and even just the internet.

It really doesn't take much to figure out what doors open and what doors close with various grad school programs. Just tell her that doing more school doesn't automatically make your job prospects better and that she has to decide carefully how she wants to utilize her education to build her career.

Point taken. She claims to like forensic psychology but not sure where that would lead her. My thing is she is going to the #2 Big Ten school out of State on a full ride and be a shame to waste a 250k scholarship for a 35k a year potential Job. I will see what I can find. But even so it doesn't seem like a 4 year degree would do her much anyhow in that the Psychology Field.

This is just my personal opinion, feel free to disregard it, but this is really her challenge to figure out.

Speaking as someone who did a psych degree myself, the process of looking for career advice, googling, talking to profs, learning the ins and outs of what grad programs I had available to me, what they would cost and what kind of careers they lead to. It was really the beginning of me taking control of my own career and realising that my future was in my own hands.

Again, my personal perspective, as I'm not about to tell anyone how to parent, but if it were my daughter, I would sit her down and discuss how important her upcoming life/school/career decisions are, point her to a few really good resources, and let her figure it out from there, with an offer of endless supportive talks and advice along the way.

I put literally hundreds of hours into researching what my future could be, what skills I could learn to be marketable, and how to network, and that process has served me spectacularly throughout my entire career.

The process of figuring out "what the hell do I want to do with my career" doesn't end at university. It's a career-long process, and the sooner she learns the skills to handle that, the stronger she'll be in the future if/when something happens in her career and she needs to make tough decisions and intimidating moves like the OP.

Had I not done my *own* research and made my *own* decisions, I would have continued on down the path that my mentors had decided for me and I would have been miserable.

An undergrad in psych won't lead to any job, that's absolutely certain, but that's not to say that it won't help her immensely in her career. People natter on about STEM degrees, but I've been in enough environments with enough range of people to see some of the distinct advantages that a background like psych can offer.

Certain degrees open certain doors and close many others. Other degrees open virtually no doors, but can make you stand out once you find your own doors to walk through.

The vast majority of "good" jobs out there don't require a specific degree, so if grad school isn't her thing, then she should start thinking about what kind of work she wants to do in the future because with a psych degree, she has an enormous range of industries and roles to aim for.

Lastly, she should be far more concerned with figuring out what type of work she wants to do and what it takes to build that type of career, because like OP, she's going to need to understand the level of sacrifice necessary for each of her options.

Everything in life is a trade off.
When it's 3am and I can't sleep, I read on my not-an-ipad thingy. I blow the screen up to make reading easier. When I do so, I can't see who the poster is. Sometimes I can tell who it is by the details mentioned (waving to @FIREby35 ). And @soccerluvof4, your style is distinctive, as are your challenges with insomnia.  When I read ^this^, it was so good, my sleep addled brain said, "Ooh, this is excellent. Sounds like Malkynn." And so it is. Your insights on a wide variety of topics are priceless. Thank you.


Sleeping 4 hours makes you an insomniac!? lol  Yea my style is distinctive of an old non sleeping person! lol.

I gotcha @Malkynn and I actually have already had the talk with her and she actually is at the very least going for her Masters since she graduated HS a semester early and between that and extra classed in the summer will be pretty far along to get it done for practically nothing.




Noodle

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2019, 08:49:42 AM »
To the OP and others. This makes for a tough read when your DD is in University and this is what she is studying and loving. Sorry to hear about your struggles and I hope you can get this figured out. What would you have done different or suggest she should do to avoid this? (My DD)
Following along thanks not with the intention of stepping on your thread but perhaps we can both benefit from it

Per the later question, I have a family member who is a clinical psychologist and she did a paid internship before grad school to learn more about the field. I don't know how standard that is, but I understand it both helped her clarify her goals and was a real leg up when it came time to apply for PhD programs.


soccerluvof4

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2019, 01:55:56 PM »
That makes Total sense thanks for sharing!!

2Cent

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #42 on: May 16, 2019, 02:24:47 AM »
...

Also, a lot of attention is given to kids with autism in education, but what happens to the adults? They are expected to just get a job and work. In fact, I know many tech companies have (semi)autistic people working there. Making them more productive would be quite valuable.

Good point.  I actually enjoy the entire age range, from toddlers through young adults.  Plenty of folks focus on the young ones, and think age 8 is "old."  I could always focus on building up a practice on the clients that others ignore.
I guess the young ones are the ones where the parents just found out and want to do something to deal with it, so they are happy to pay for help. Adults with autism should probably pay for themselves and also be ready to admit needing help. You may need to re-brand it from autism support, which sounds like its a handicap, to something more positive. Something like "Connecting to people for the highly intelligent". Maybe you could sell it as a training to tech companies or employment agencies.

FIREby35

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Re: In a career slump, trying to slog it out
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2019, 07:15:49 PM »
Waving back :)