Author Topic: Ignorant food consumers  (Read 30354 times)

WildJager

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Ignorant food consumers
« on: May 05, 2017, 04:41:09 PM »
So I recently had an experience that got me thinking more to the roots about how most of us aren't really down to earth about what we're eating.  People head to Whole Foods and chow down on a nice steak or chicken breast, but abhor hunting because of how "cruel" it is.  They'll buy a $4 sprig of basil, but refuse to build and grow a small raised garden.  It's almost ironic how folks are willing to eat at fancy restaurants that serve "strange" wild game, who would otherwise never be caught dead with a rifle in the woods.  I've taken this with a laissez-faire attitude, but this situation changed me a bit.

As a caveat, I'm a bit of a foodie.  I don't eat out a lot, but instead find enjoyment on researching food and the best techniques to make amazing meals.  Obviously, that leads to a deeper understanding of what it is I'm actually ingesting in order to use the ingredients to their best potential. 

I was recently up in Boston for the marathon, and as those events usually do they had plenty of advertisers at the convention.  One such advertiser was for a non meat chicken substitute.  I tried a sample of their "chicken" salad, and found it quite enjoyable.  Curious, I started grilling them a bit on what it was actually made of.  I could sense their hesitation to respond thoroughly, but eventually they broke down and told me the details in front of the small crowd.  The "meat" is made of mycoprotein, basically a fungus that they formed into a patty substitute.  I was impressed on how similar to chicken it actually tasted (to be fair it tasted like bland chicken made from a crossfit recipe book or something, so nothing to write home about, but still). 

Anyway, there was a man standing there listening in awe, with a somewhat disgusted look on his face.  He was flabbergasted by the whole situation.  As he watched me eat the sample, he simply exclaimed, "I hope you enjoy eating your fungus!" and stormed off. 

Oh, how I wish I wasn't slightly hung over from the night before and had my wits about me (it was vacation and all, I wasn't the one running the marathon).  10 seconds too late, I wanted to quarry him on if he'd recently enjoyed a mushroom.  Considering how ubiquitous good old shrooms are, I would have loved to throw it in his smug face replying to his affirmative, "About as much as you enjoyed your last fungus experience." 

Alas, I stood speechless as he walked away.  It wasn't the fact that he didn't want to be enlightened to meat alternatives; that's all fine and dandy, it was the fact that he insulted the workers at the presentation while they were trying to do a thing.  His ignorance and others' before is why the workers were hesitant to divulge the recipe.  Newsflash: Fungus is a great umami alternative to meat. 

That got me thinking to many of my past experiences with people either being overly privileged and wasteful with food (I can rarely convince people to eat the well prepared gizzards finely diced in a gravy around Thanksgiving), or just straight up ignorant about what they're eating (people have refused fried pork belly, but turned around and ate bacon). 

This thread is intended to be a culinary adventure of food and destroying some of our preconceived notions about it.  What experiences have you had?  What truth bombs do you want to share with other mustachians that might open a new world of nuanced cooking potential?

Some examples:

Never buy herbs in plastic again.  Buy herb plants in a potter if you don't have a garden.  They cost about the same.  Keep it watered and sunned, and snip off what you need for your current meal.  For the same $5, you'll have herbs throughout the spring and summer for "free." 

Expiration dates on products and recipes are nonsense.  Follow your nose, it's a honed tool over many years of survival based evolution.  If it's a dish that can be heated to a boil, don't even worry about it being a few days old, just nuke the shit out of it.  Any dead bacteria adds flavor (I kid...but seriously, it's fine).

I had an old friend tell me that he didn't eat mushrooms because he doesn't eat stuff that grows on poop.  I contemplated telling him that decaying organic material isn't necessarily poop, but decided to leave the intricacies out of it.  I didn't have the heart to tell him that most herbs and vegetables, though, are actually grown in poop.

Some of the most cost effective meat is the stuff that is taboo in first world countries.  There's a reason why sausage and hot dogs are made with organs and left over cuts... they're delicious.  Throw in some spices, mince it up, cook it until it's tender and you're good to go. 

Chorizo has more weird shit in it than hot dogs.  I've more than once met someone who refused to eat hot dogs because it has "gross parts", but chowed down on some authentic chorizo and eggs for breakfast. 

Horse meat is actually pretty tasty.  Try a brat next time you're in Germany.

Insects are a great source of protein.  I've had maggots, worms, and grasshoppers raw, though like most cook worthy food I wouldn't recommend it in that fashion.  However, using them in a similar technique as sausage they could definitely be a viable food source for the world.

Welp, to avoid going even further down the rabbit hole I'll leave it at that last one.  What (less cringe inducing) advice or stories do you have about the realities of food, and where we should be looking for it in the future?

Edit: Spelling
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 10:27:32 AM by WildJager »

ND

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2017, 06:34:32 PM »
I'd like to try some insects, snakes, worms, and maybe (mayyyybe *squinty eye*) some arachnids.  I definitely think I could stomach crickets, as long as they've got some good spices.
Hairy tarantulas, though; ugh, no.  I wouldn't touch that with a 10 ft pole.

WildJager

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2017, 06:53:42 PM »
I'd like to try some insects, snakes, worms, and maybe (mayyyybe *squinty eye*) some arachnids.  I definitely think I could stomach crickets, as long as they've got some good spices.
Hairy tarantulas, though; ugh, no.  I wouldn't touch that with a 10 ft pole.

I hear ya.  Though cooking is a thing for a reason.  Making unpleasant stuff pleasant.

With that said I have had plank cooked snake.  It was awesome.  I was hungry... so my opinion might be a bit biased.

GoingToMaine

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2017, 08:27:40 PM »
I've had bear.  It wasn't good. 

Moose on the other hand is fantastic.  It is very much like lean beef.  It's similar to deer meat, as you would expect, but in my opinion not as gamey.  I hear that depends a lot on their diet though.  If you get one that was eating a lot of twigs and junk, it can be gamey.  But if they're eating grasses and leafy stuff, it's better.

maricela

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2017, 08:56:26 PM »
I'm turned off my meat alternatives not just for what they actually are, but for the processing and such that goes into making it taste like something it's not. If you don't want to eat meat, don't. But don't try to fake it.

As for bugs, tried cricket and nope. Texture. Nothing like crispy legs floating around getting stuck under your tongue to ruin a dish.


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Squidrow Wilson

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2017, 10:45:21 PM »
Over the last few years this has become an issue near and dear to my heart. Long story short, I was raised in rural Wisconsin where we hunt and fish but now live in a trendy Chicago neighborhood. I still hunt and fish every year, so I'm a bit of an outcast. I've had difficulties reconciling the foodie culture surrounding me with the reality that most of those people would look down on me for having killed deer and other animals.

As a meat eater I think hunting is probably the most moral choice I can make, even if it is quite a difficult one. When talking to other meat eaters I always advocate that they consider hunting if they have never been. Nothing will make someone reconsider their moral stance on meat consumption faster than having to face a living, breathing animal and being tasked with ending its life. If the act of killing isn't enough, dressing, hauling, and processing your game will certainly bring a new level of respect for meat. No bit of meat is to be wasted once you've humbly seen the full process. In comparison the boneless chicken breasts neatly wrapped in cellophane seem to ring hollow.

Furthermore, hunted game is often downright delicious if prepared correctly. Some of my absolute favorite meals use wild game (like this venison tenderloin with blueberry sauce: http://honest-food.net/venison-recipe-blueberry-sauce/ ). I think people often mistakenly treat venison as if it is just a substitute for beef or pork and their recipes reflect that. Venison definitely needs to utilize recipes that are tailored for its unique flavor profile. Also, as mentioned above the flavor of the meat can vary widely depending on the animal's diet, age, and dying conditions.

Anyways, I'm glad you started such an interesting topic. I'm obviously a big advocate for hunting and fishing but I'm equally curious about foraging and gardening. I think I'll get my first shot at a real garden next summer but I'm unsure how to get into foraging. Does anybody have any experience in that regard? I'm assuming it would be best to find someone who knows the local flora and learn from them. Lastly, Hank Shaw's blog Hunter Angler Gardener Cook (link below) is a wonderful window into the world of "weird" foods.

http://honest-food.net/

cloudsail

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2017, 12:43:59 AM »
When I was small I lived where people regularly bought live chickens and butchered it themselves at home. So imagine my bemusement when my parents decided it was time to cook one of their backyard roosters and my husband was so horrified he escaped as far away as he could and then wouldn't touch the meat afterwards. He apparently thought it was "gross." Note that he is a heavy meat eater and generally loves chicken.

I had co-workers who wouldn't eat duck (or goose, etc). Another co-worker and I couldn't figure out why they felt it was any different from eating chicken.

I've had donkey meat before and it was really good, like beef but more tender. As an Asian I also enjoy the various non-conventional cuts of a pig, like the hocks and the ears. I really miss pork head meat. I've heard that they just throw the head away here and it seems like such a waste.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 12:50:40 AM by cloudsail »

cloudsail

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2017, 12:56:31 AM »
I'd like to try some insects, snakes, worms, and maybe (mayyyybe *squinty eye*) some arachnids.  I definitely think I could stomach crickets, as long as they've got some good spices.
Hairy tarantulas, though; ugh, no.  I wouldn't touch that with a 10 ft pole.

I hear ya.  Though cooking is a thing for a reason.  Making unpleasant stuff pleasant.

With that said I have had plank cooked snake.  It was awesome.  I was hungry... so my opinion might be a bit biased.

I had snake before too and didn't really like it.

However, before dinner outside the restaurant, I watched its head get chopped off, fly off the chopping block, and land right in front of a bunch of tourists who all screamed and jumped back. That was pretty entertaining :)

Inaya

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2017, 02:56:24 AM »
I love game. But I could never hunt. It's not a judgment on those who do hunt (as long as they're hunting responsibly); it's just not for me. Plus I have horrible depth perception and aim, so it would likely be a waste of time. Similarly, I don't grow my own herbs because I've killed them every time I've tried.

I don't consider myself a foodie (I do, after all, enjoy an occasional McDonald's, which probably disqualifies me), but I do enjoy well-cooked interesting foods. I am willing to pay a lot in good restaurants that prepare these foods because 1) I as yet lack the skill to prepare these foods myself 2) I lack the access to the ingredients or tools to make them.

I'm working on it, though. I recently picked up this cookbook from the library because the ethnic market where I shop sells many of the "undesirable" foods that conventional supermarkets don't. My current goal is to be able to prepare one of  their whole pigs' heads--and not just because I want to haul a whole pig's head home via public transportation.

I have been working on questioning my own food hangups. I could probably eat brain after some hesitation, but not reproductive parts--no logical reason (although I suspect I'd have issues with the texture). I'm not sure if I could eat bugs--although I do enjoy the larger marine arthropods from time to time. I really struggle with the idea of eating any "pet" animals--cat and dog are absolutely out, but I there is a slim possibility I could eat horse. It's not logical, but I've acknowledged that and I'm comfortable with it. There are lots of other animals to eat.

I dislike artificial "meats," but not for the typical reason. It's about expectation for me. You put the word "meat" or "burger" in there and it gives me expectations that are rarely met. It's, again, not logical, but you could give me a "vegetable-based patty" and I'd probably enjoy it. Whereas you hand me the same thing and call it a gardenburger, and I won't like it. I love mushrooms, but if you call it chicken instead of fungus-based protein, I'll probably dislike it. I love sweet tea, but if you hand me a glass of it but tell me it's Dr Pepper (which I also love), I won't like it.

GrumpyPenguin

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2017, 05:01:24 AM »
Sure there's some ignorance.  But we should also allow for consumers(diners?) to have their own tastes and preferences. 

I'd like to think I'm a fun guy, but I really don't like fungi! :p.

No, seriously though, I try mushrooms now and then but the texture of cooked mushrooms just isn't for me.  Now, a fungi-based chicken substitute product?  I'd give it a shot.  If I WERE to be planning to eat a chicken dish and there was a nutritious substitute and I either wouldn't notice the difference or it tasted just as good, I'm all for it.  My understanding of the large scale meat industry is that it's environmentally awful and cruel.  I have far less animosity for hunting.  I eat much less meat now than I did when I was younger, and maybe some day I'll quit it completely.

Cranky

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2017, 05:36:39 AM »
Crickets have a mild, buttery taste. (We had a place locally that raised them commercially and my dh consulted with them.)

zarfus

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2017, 07:51:23 AM »
I'm willing to try everything, i really wish i liked some foods that i simply hate (shellfish!). As a hunter and fisherman, I'm really saddened by the state of lakes regarding mercury levels, etc.

I have an acre of land and can't even get chickens according to ordinance, wtf! We try to get as many fruits and veggies as we can though!

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big_slacker

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2017, 08:11:03 AM »
On the hunting thing specifically, I don't do dead animals myself but I definitely feel that hunters are much more mindful of where their meat comes from. If you have to kill a living animal and prepare it yourself rather than buying it in a white plastic wrapped tray you have a much different perspective.

The same holds true for produce FWIW. If you even have a backyard garden and grow fruits and veggies you understand what goes into what shows up on your plate.

Divorcing ourselves from the sources of our foods is what leads to people being ok eating foodlike substances out of a box. I'm not a monk and not saying our family eats ONLY whole foods but definitely the majority is.

I don't know that I have any knowledge bombs to drop, but I would encourage everyone here if they have even a little bit of interest to:

Grow a small garden, even some indoor stuff like herbs. Fresh basil on pasta is AMAZING. Understanding what grows well in your local climate, soil and season is eye opening. Then go to the store and start looking at where the produce comes from at different times of year instead of just saying you want watermelon in the middle of winter and picking one up.

Bake some bread. Minimalist baker has some awesome and incredibly easy recipes. My favorite is http://minimalistbaker.com/7-ingredient-muesli-bread/

Make a batch of homemade pasta sauce. It's seriously easy and you can do a large batch to freeze for later. Here again is minimalist baker: http://minimalistbaker.com/spicy-red-pasta-with-lentils/


Oh yeah, and stop freaking out about protein. You don't need that much. :D

HipGnosis

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2017, 08:26:50 AM »
I grew up (partially) on a farm.  I've helped slaughter chickens and pigs.  I've seen cattle be slaughtered.
I've been thru military survival training.  I've eaten bugs and know how to test a plant for edibility.
I'm not ignorant of food.
I use to be bothered by how so many people choose to cling to their food ignorance, but I got myself over it.

Dicey

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2017, 08:35:15 AM »
Sorry, after a career in sales, I have to put some of the burden on the seller to craft a better message. Surely they knew people would have questions. They could have said "it's similar to a mushroom" and avoided the squick factor altogether.

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2017, 09:08:28 AM »
Don't be such a judge on what others do or think.   

Why don't we start a thread on some of the stupid shit you're in to?  MOD NOTE: Rule #1


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« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 09:50:21 AM by swick »

Inaya

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2017, 09:37:25 AM »
Don't be such a judge on what others do or think.   

Why don't we start a thread on some of the stupid shit you're in to? 

Isn't there an entire subforum dedicated to judging what other people do and think?

I personally find it interesting how different people approach their food.

gaja

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2017, 01:24:07 PM »
According to the Friends  of the Earth in Northern Norway, whales are some of the most environmental and climate friendly food you can eat. Some species were never hunted in real numbers, others have regrown their numbers. You get a lot of meat from one animal, and it is relatively energy efficient to hunt and slaughter it. Of course, some whale species, like the great blue, are still to few in numbers to be hunted. But in controlled numbers, and with strict rules to avoid suffering, whales could be a decent source of protein more places on earth.

Seals are smaller, but also easier to hunt. You can even hunt them from land or smaller boats. I personally think the meat has a strong oily taste, but my kids like it. They have grown up liking cod liver oil, so they don't find that taste off putting. The pelts are lovely, and make good clothes and shoes.

The main problem with eating marine mammals, is pollution. PCB and mercury are the main culprits, but there are also others, such as lead. Pregnant and nursing women should not eat the meat, and children should be careful with too much meat or blubber, but if you are male, or done with having children, eating whale or seal meat a couple of times a week is not a big problem. Hopefully, we will stop pouring poison into the sea soon.

WildJager

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2017, 04:17:56 PM »
Fresh basil on pasta is AMAZING.

Just had to quote that because... yes.  If I had to choose only one plant for a garden, it would be basil.

I second making fresh pasta sauce too.  So easy to do and so much tastier than the jarred stuff.  Plus, if you want to spice it up it's a quick transition to making bolognese sauce.

WildJager

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2017, 04:39:34 PM »
Don't be such a judge on what others do or think.   
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What was that quote I feel like I heard recently from some guy?  Something along the lines of, "How to be Happy, Rich, and Save the World."  Who was he again?  Ah well, forget about it.

Anywho, I'm not judging people for what others want to do and think.  I'm commenting on the lack of thinking behind their "decision" making.  Just as this whole site is dedicated to righting the sinking ship of financially literacy among our society, food consumption and production is a second ship sinking just along side.  Our current detachment from food sources is not only disrespectful, but practically unsustainable.  Just as actions in personal finance have consequences, so do actions at the grocery store.  If someone wants to make an informed decision about food that doesn't contribute to fixing the problem, by all means do what you want.  However, lambasting cultural differences or non-normative food culture out of ignorance is not a trait I respect.

Why don't we start a thread on some of the stupid shit you're in to?  MOD NOTE: Rule #1

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I love White Castle, McDonald's Fillet-O-Fish, and the all-you-can-eat prime rib buffets at casinos.  I blame nostalgia.  What else would you like to know?

Inaya

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2017, 05:22:26 PM »
I love White Castle, McDonald's Fillet-O-Fish, and the all-you-can-eat prime rib buffets at casinos.  I blame nostalgia.  What else would you like to know?
I've never actually eaten at White Castle, but my grandma would buy the little frozen cheeseburgers and make them for us. Still love them to this day (though I only eat them about once a year). Filet-O-Fish isn't for me, but I do enjoy a McRib every half-decade or so.

o2bfree

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2017, 07:07:33 PM »
Many years ago my dad decided to serve oxtail soup at his restaurant. The type he served was a rich, savory broth, something like a very thin gravy made with red wine, with little bits of beef tail meat in it. It was absolutely delicious! But few people would even try it because it was made with tail meat. So he changed the name to "soupe à la queue de boeuf". The clientele, being largely lower to middle class working folks, got a kick out of the exotic French name, and my dad told them it meant, "beef soup that's so good people line up for it." People loved it then!

nvtribefan1

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2017, 07:23:21 PM »
I'm not familiar with currizo.  Is it anything like chorizo?

It's probably easier to be mustachian if you remain food ignorant.  Then you can pay .69 for a dozen factory farmed eggs instead of $3+ for humanely produced eggs.

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2017, 06:25:43 AM »
I've only recently (over the past few years) gotten to the point where I could really explore good food, because I grew up in poverty and food had always been basic sustenance without nuance. It took a long time for me to learn to trust anything that wasn't non-perishable in vacuum-sealed packaging, because I always received "fresh" food at the end of its shelf life and that often meant it was potentially dangerous to my health.

Lately, I've changed my diet to mostly plant-based for my health. I'm thin, but my doctor was concerned about my cholesterol. It's been interesting to learn that very fresh fruits and vegetables can be really delicious when raw or cooked properly. I eat vegetarian for several days of the week and eat only lean meats on the other days. I'm still working on trusting fresh meats. All the meat I currently eat comes frozen.

It was kind of amazing when I learned how to season my food. I had never really had any experience with spices in the kitchen before. I was shocked to learn from online recipes that it's actually very easy and cheap to make healthier versions of my takeout favorites from various restaurants. Currently, my skills have gotten to the point where I don't really feel the urge to order food or eat out at restaurants anymore.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2017, 07:11:23 AM »
I don't hunt because I don't have the eyesight for it.  But I have no issues with hunting for meat when the animals are numerous (i.e. deer around here) and the hunter is skilled (i.e. no wounded animal left to bleed to death).  I am almost finished eating the venison from when a deer committed suicide by car with my car.

ptobeast

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2017, 11:55:13 PM »
I'm not familiar with currizo.  Is it anything like chorizo?

It's probably easier to be mustachian if you remain food ignorant.  Then you can pay .69 for a dozen factory farmed eggs instead of $3+ for humanely produced eggs.

I wish egg labeling didn't make it so difficult - I want to make humane choices, but then my brain blanks when I have to choose between cage-free, organic, free-range, grass fed, pasture-raised, etc.

GreenSheep

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2017, 04:48:38 AM »
I wish egg labeling didn't make it so difficult - I want to make humane choices, but then my brain blanks when I have to choose between cage-free, organic, free-range, grass fed, pasture-raised, etc.

Here's an article that gives a decent run-down on all of the labels and what they mean (or don't mean):

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/12/23/370377902/farm-fresh-natural-eggs-not-always-what-they-re-cracked-up-to-be

MightyAl

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2017, 04:59:40 AM »
I am with you.  Pound for pound organ meats are the best for you.  I used to buy grass finished meat from a place in MO and they asked if you wanted the organ meats.  I absolutely wanted the organ meats that they would often give me double or triple the organ meats.  It baffled me that people were bucking up for grass fed beef but passing on the organ meats. 

That is when I learned beef heart is easiest to prepare in the crock pot and delicious.

Linda_Norway

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2017, 05:14:01 AM »
We have tried eating insects, in dried form. My husband liked 2 of the 3 species and used them as snacks in his office. He once prepared a dish with it. Even though I find insects a bit gross, I ate the dish. It went well almost until the end and then I got (mentally) sick and couldn't eat any more.

We have fresh herbs growing in the garden now, from seeds. Otherwise we have planted the stems of spring onions, a garlic fed and tomatoe slices and this is all growing into plants.

About the original example: I would love to try "chicken" made from a fungus. I have also understood that veggie burger nowadays taste pretty good. Last I checked they were made of lentils.

I generally try to eat a bit less meat. At least one dinner without meat a day. We also regularly eat self-caught food, like fish and mushrooms.

Inaya

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2017, 06:47:20 AM »
That is when I learned beef heart is easiest to prepare in the crock pot and delicious.

Would you share your recipe?

big_slacker

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2017, 07:25:27 AM »
We have fresh herbs growing in the garden now, from seeds. Otherwise we have planted the stems of spring onions, a garlic fed and tomatoe slices and this is all growing into plants.

About the original example: I would love to try "chicken" made from a fungus. I have also understood that veggie burger nowadays taste pretty good. Last I checked they were made of lentils.

I generally try to eat a bit less meat. At least one dinner without meat a day. We also regularly eat self-caught food, like fish and mushrooms.

Interestingly enough I was listening to a podcast yesterday about the current crop of meat substitutes. Beyond Meat and Impossible foods both have launched burger patties that supposedly are very close to ground beef, enough that blind tests could fool some. The impossible burger one actually has plant derived heme in it to attempt to satisfy the flesh craving, they can be cooked fairly rare. With that said, the meat analogues are highly processed foods, and IMO are most useful if someone want to be vegetarian/vegan and is just so used to eating meat they need a replacement.

Along the same lines the podcast talked about Memphis Meats which is an SF startup that is growing real meat with stem cells from animals. They've actually done it with chicken and I think beef or pork. It's prohibitively expensive now (like $18k pound of meat) but they are planning on launching consumer priced lab grown meat in 2021. This could end factory farming of live animals *IF* people can get past the 'dats unnatural' factor which isn't insignificant. Although I don't know how it's worse than hormone laden cows eating corn and waste standing knee deep in shit, I guess we'll see how it plays out. On the subject of this thread, how would a consumer of this lab grown meat be seen? Cause you're not definitely not producing it yourself or can even understand how it's done?

They also talked about converting land used for animal feed to grazing land and trying to move all meat prod back to organic grass feed grazed, etc. But the numbers just don't work out unless meat consumption were MASSIVELY reduced.

TravelJunkyQC

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2017, 07:38:17 AM »
My partner is a hunter and fisherman, and while he was "largely" raised to eat everything he killed, he would occasionally take a life of an invasive species (for example), and then leave it there. I draw the line there, though. Now, if he kills, he eats, no exceptions. I've eaten beaver, lots of deer, moose, wild goose and duck, and a multitude of fish. The beaver and certain types of fish aren't extraordinary, but if it's dead, it will be eaten - it's a matter of respecting and appreciating the life you have taken (at least to me). And I would much rather eat an animal that had a full wild life, and whose life ended swiftly and relatively painlessly, than an animal that lived a miserable life, suffered in death, and ended up in the grocery store (although I also shop in the store).

That being said, there are certain things (arachnids are an example), that I'm not sure I could stomach. I appreciate that others are able to.

Consumer waste is absolutely disgusting to me; whatever someone wants to eat is fine by me, but by god, don't waste what you haven't consumed, just buy less of it.

Linda_Norway

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2017, 07:47:02 AM »
My partner is a hunter and fisherman, and while he was "largely" raised to eat everything he killed, he would occasionally take a life of an invasive species (for example), and then leave it there. I draw the line there, though. Now, if he kills, he eats, no exceptions. I've eaten beaver, lots of deer, moose, wild goose and duck, and a multitude of fish. The beaver and certain types of fish aren't extraordinary, but if it's dead, it will be eaten - it's a matter of respecting and appreciating the life you have taken (at least to me). And I would much rather eat an animal that had a full wild life, and whose life ended swiftly and relatively painlessly, than an animal that lived a miserable life, suffered in death, and ended up in the grocery store (although I also shop in the store).


This is good. I have met a hunter who hunted on beavers and didn't do anything with it. Just take a photo beside the big beast and throw it away. This is pointless to me, as the animal just died for someones pleasure and didn't even provide food. Such a waste.

Cezilous

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2017, 07:48:09 AM »
That is when I learned beef heart is easiest to prepare in the crock pot and delicious.

Would you share your recipe?

Yes, please, if you don't mind!

We tried cooking liver a few years ago.  It was our first time and we had never had it before.  Did not go well - the texture, taste, and smell (oh god I wanted to die, and the smell stayed in the kitchen for days) was not pleasant.  We've been afraid to try organs since then.  We hate to waste and so are reluctant to possibly waste organ meat, especially since we know it's so good for us.

I grew up in WI and there was a farm with land & forest in the family, so there were hunters.  To this day, if my dad gets a deer during season, then Thanksgiving can be spent with mom, dad, my sister, her husband, and my SO and me sitting around a card table, carving and cutting it all up.  The guys also fish, so we eat the fish.  SO and I have grass-fed meat vendor who lives a little over an hour away.  We try to get there at least once a year, take a farm tour, see all the cows, chickens, ducks, pigs, etc.. that we know we'll potentially be eating.  We don't do the actual butchering, however, now that you mention it in the thread, I think if we asked to be present, they might let us view (not sure about helping butcher, though).  The farm is totally about knowing where your food comes from and meeting the animals (we like to say some thank yous to the animals and spend quiet time with them sending appreciational vibes), so the owners are always happy when people come out to really experience the farm-to-table idea.  From the sounds of it, not too many people take them up on this offer- when we go out there, we usually get a few hours by ourselves with the family/owners chit chatting the day away.  We know they try to make it as respectful and painless as possible, so we're happy to pay a little extra for this meat. Someone mentioned knowing the animals had a great, happy life instead of one filled with pain and misery.  These animals are so freaking happy on that farm, roaming around and mooing at eachother.  There's no shortage of grass and field, water, shelter when they want.. That also makes us happy.

We also try to grow food in the backyard, learning as we go.  The goal, someday, is to be as self-sufficient as we can be.  Hope to get the plants planted by next weekend!

We've had bison (South Dakota) and guinea pig (Peru).  Can't remember if we've tried alpaca or not.

Linda_Norway

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2017, 07:57:08 AM »
Is you want to eat liver, then it might be easiest to start with chicken livers. These do not smell particularly. I used them in the past and added them to rice dishes. That tasted fine. Never seen chicken liver in Norwegian shops though, so I've stopped using it.

maizeman

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2017, 08:26:09 AM »
Interestingly enough I was listening to a podcast yesterday about the current crop of meat substitutes. Beyond Meat and Impossible foods both have launched burger patties that supposedly are very close to ground beef, enough that blind tests could fool some. The impossible burger one actually has plant derived heme in it to attempt to satisfy the flesh craving, they can be cooked fairly rare. With that said, the meat analogues are highly processed foods, and IMO are most useful if someone want to be vegetarian/vegan and is just so used to eating meat they need a replacement.

Is it confirmed to be plant derived heme now? I remember last year someone was curious enough to actually sequence an impossible foods hamburger to see what was in there. At the time they were thinking the heme might be being biosynthesized in yeast. (Oh no, fungus again). That said, I could certainly envision isolating heme from the root nodules of soybeans or other legume crops. No idea which would be more cost effective.



https://medium.com/the-seeq-blog/sequencing-the-worlds-first-vegan-hamburger-3b06c17e4e2d

Fishindude

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2017, 08:47:56 AM »
Hunting & fishing are serious pursuits for me and we eat a ton of wild game.  Two to four deer every year, an elk or an antelope occasionally if I get lucky.  Lucked out and recently got a wild boar, also eat a whole bunch of fish that we catch.  I see a lot of people that still turn up their nose at venison because they ate it years ago improperly prepared by someone who was equally as scared of it as they were.  It was likely overcooked, tough and gamey.   I wouldn't like that crap either.

I've made a few converts out of people who didn't like wild game by serving them some prime venison backstrap, cooked rare.  This stuff can go toe to toe with any prime rib.  A good elk meatloaf is hard to beat also, and venison burger is good in any recipe calling for hamburger.  Hard to beat fresh grilled salmon or lake trout too.

We really don't buy much red meat with exception of the occasional good steak, and I've not yet taken to raising hogs so we buy a little bacon and sausage.  It's nice to know where your food comes from and how it's handled.  I like harvesting and processing wild game & fish, you know it's good healthy stuff when you're eating it.   Our eggs come from my nephew and we raise a big vegetable garden too, so we have direct input on much of the food we consume.

I'm really envious of the folks that live in coastal areas that would have ready access to; crabs, salmon, halibut, clams, and all of the other tasty critters from the ocean.


o2bfree

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2017, 09:07:31 AM »
I'm really envious of the folks that live in coastal areas that would have ready access to; crabs, salmon, halibut, clams, and all of the other tasty critters from the ocean.
Don't get too envious. Fishing regulations can make it difficult to go after seafood. Closures due to red tides, sewage spills, and other contamination issues add to the problem. Not to mention over-harvesting in some areas.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 10:31:16 AM by o2bfree »

WildJager

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2017, 10:28:36 AM »
I'm not familiar with currizo.  Is it anything like chorizo?

Nope, just a spelling error.  Fixed.  Thanks!

shelivesthedream

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2017, 10:47:30 AM »
Oh yeah, and stop freaking out about protein. You don't need that much. :D

This always makes me want to simultaneously laugh and smack someone. It's like, "Grrrrrr, I'm so tough and rugged I just NEED to eat platefuls of raw meat every day just to stay ALIVE!" Lol, srsly. No one in a developed country above the poverty line who can list three non-meat sources of protein and occasionally thinks about it in passing is going to be protein deficient. I read about the protein gap panic (the idea that the world wasn't producing enough protein and so people were deficient) arising after the Second World War and then being debunked in the 1970s/80s when they realised that humans just didn't need as much protein as they thought, and any deficiencies were usually from a lack of food full stop, rather than a lack of protein.

I'm also disgusted by people's wilful ignorance and hypocrisy about food, particularly meat. I was in France once and watched primary school children have a school trip to a butcher, where the butcher waved Mr Canard and Madame Poulet around and explained how the ducks and chickens got plucked and gutted and turned into the meat on your plate. It was very instructive.

ptobeast

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #40 on: May 08, 2017, 10:57:36 AM »
I wish egg labeling didn't make it so difficult - I want to make humane choices, but then my brain blanks when I have to choose between cage-free, organic, free-range, grass fed, pasture-raised, etc.

Here's an article that gives a decent run-down on all of the labels and what they mean (or don't mean):

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2014/12/23/370377902/farm-fresh-natural-eggs-not-always-what-they-re-cracked-up-to-be

Great link, thanks!

NESailor

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #41 on: May 08, 2017, 11:53:05 AM »
grew up in Eastern Europe with grandma living on a small farm.  It would probably be a "hobby" farm in the US but we used it for sustenance.   Several families got almost all their meat, eggs, and a large portion of the fruit, veggies, even wine from it. 

Watched my then 85 year old great grandma butcher chickens like a BOSS.  And rabbits - mean little shits that knew they were food so there was no petting them.  Same with geese...but man oh man was their roasted meat and LIVER fatty, and juicy and delicious!  Participated in killing pigs too, never pulled the trigger but mostly helped the butcher move the still warm meat, blood, etc. around.  Watched him make kielbasas and taste the seasoned raw pork as he was seasoning it :).

Bacon, cracklings, kielbasa and other types of sausage - all so flavorful everything from a supermarket now tastes bland. 

o2bfree

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #42 on: May 08, 2017, 12:42:15 PM »
This always makes me want to simultaneously laugh and smack someone. It's like, "Grrrrrr, I'm so tough and rugged I just NEED to eat platefuls of raw meat every day just to stay ALIVE!" Lol, srsly. No one in a developed country above the poverty line who can list three non-meat sources of protein and occasionally thinks about it in passing is going to be protein deficient.

I saw an article recently where the author had noticed what seemed to be an epidemic of foamy pee in public urinals. Foam in pee can mean that the kidneys aren't doing their job to filter protein out of the urine. Often it's a sign of kidney disease, but I wonder if high-protein diets can overwhelm the kidneys and also cause this issue.

Rosy

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #43 on: May 08, 2017, 01:13:14 PM »
QUOTE:
We tried cooking liver a few years ago.  It was our first time and we had never had it before.  Did not go well - the texture, taste, and smell (oh god I wanted to die, and the smell stayed in the kitchen for days) was not pleasant.  We've been afraid to try organs since then.  We hate to waste and so are reluctant to possibly waste organ meat, especially since we know it's so good for us.

Sounds terrible - although liver is not my favorite dish - it is great, if properly prepared:

Calf liver from a grass fed calf - marinated in buttermilk to make it nice and tender and get rid of the smell - toss the marinade and then season with salt and pepper, roll in a dusting of flour - then sauteed with tons of fresh sweet onions, yum.
If you prefer, marinate in milk, then sautee in a little dark beer and serve it with a crust made with seasoned bread crumbs, and lots of parsley - delicious.
The goal is to tenderize and change the flavor to a culinary experience:)

gaja

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #44 on: May 08, 2017, 02:37:15 PM »
Oh yeah, and stop freaking out about protein. You don't need that much. :D

This always makes me want to simultaneously laugh and smack someone. It's like, "Grrrrrr, I'm so tough and rugged I just NEED to eat platefuls of raw meat every day just to stay ALIVE!" Lol, srsly. No one in a developed country above the poverty line who can list three non-meat sources of protein and occasionally thinks about it in passing is going to be protein deficient.

I have cousins who have died due to lack of an aminoacid that is mainly obtained from red meat. Could you please explain why that is a laughing matter, or your reason for smacking my family of meat eaters? Carnitine transporter deficiency is common in my family, and since I care more about keeping my daughters healthy and alive than about your opinion, I probably would keep to our diet anyway, but it would be interesting to hear your reasoning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemic_primary_carnitine_deficiency

You are probably correct in most of the cases you have met, since this condition is rare in most parts of the world. And today, it can and should be treated with supplements. But traditionally, a protein rich diet(lamb, whale, seal, certain types of fish) has kept most people with this syndrome alive. And since CTD is only one of the fun diet related disorders that runs in my family (biotine deficiency is another, and then there are the bowel syndromes), we will keep filling our plates with fermented sheep meat and dried whale. The good part of that is that most people who like to laugh at other people's diets will have trouble handling the smell of fermented sheep, so we are usually left alone to enjoy our meal.

Inaya

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #45 on: May 08, 2017, 03:35:56 PM »
Our eggs come from my nephew
Wow your nephew lays eggs!? (Sorry, sorry!)

I think for people the emphasis on protein consumption is less "mighty carnivore" than it is the current direction of fad diets. First you had Atkins, and now paleo is hitting the scene big (which many, many people misunderstand to be all meat all the time). Also, it's the new fiber. Fiber used to be billed as "keeping you fuller longer," and now protein is in that position. I'm not saying the manly carnivore attitude doesn't exist--I just don't think it's the primary driver anymore.

big_slacker

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #46 on: May 08, 2017, 05:47:08 PM »
Oh yeah, and stop freaking out about protein. You don't need that much. :D

This always makes me want to simultaneously laugh and smack someone. It's like, "Grrrrrr, I'm so tough and rugged I just NEED to eat platefuls of raw meat every day just to stay ALIVE!" Lol, srsly. No one in a developed country above the poverty line who can list three non-meat sources of protein and occasionally thinks about it in passing is going to be protein deficient.

I have cousins who have died due to lack of an aminoacid that is mainly obtained from red meat. Could you please explain why that is a laughing matter, or your reason for smacking my family of meat eaters? Carnitine transporter deficiency is common in my family, and since I care more about keeping my daughters healthy and alive than about your opinion, I probably would keep to our diet anyway, but it would be interesting to hear your reasoning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemic_primary_carnitine_deficiency

It's pretty obvious shelives was talking about cultural overconsumption of protein rather than people with a medical condition that .00001% of the population has. No need to look for offense when none was intended.

My original post about it is similar to shelives. Actual protein requirements are WAY lower than most Americans think they are, and heavy meat consumption, especially the factory farmed kind can have serious health implications.

About the heme in the impossible burger, from the horse's mouth:

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/02/11/514544431/saving-the-planet-one-burger-at-a-time-this-juicy-patty-is-meat-free

"The Impossible Burger, as it's known, is the culmination of a dream for Pat Brown. For 25 years, Brown was a professor at Stanford University. He was one of the stars in his field, studying a range of biomedical topics."......

"Heme is responsible for the bloody flavor of raw meat, and you generate this explosion of flavor and raw meat when you cook it," Brown explains.

"He says discovering this was the key to his quest, because it turns out that plants have heme, too, but in very small amounts. For instance, soybeans have heme in their roots.

So to re-create the taste of beef, Brown had to figure out how to produce heme from plants in vast amounts. To do that, he and the scientists he works with isolated the gene that produces heme in soybeans and put it in yeast, which ferments in a big steel tank."

maizeman

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #47 on: May 08, 2017, 05:52:11 PM »
So a combination of plant-heme rather than animal-heme AND industrial-scale production in bioreactors. I should have remembered some vegetarians/vegans object to even individual proteins cloned from animals (creates issues when arguing about what types of cheese different people consider to be vegetarian, since a lot of rennet is produced using a gene sequence based on a sequence found in the cattle genome).

Very cool, thanks big_slacker.

Squidrow Wilson

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #48 on: May 08, 2017, 06:13:20 PM »
My partner is a hunter and fisherman, and while he was "largely" raised to eat everything he killed, he would occasionally take a life of an invasive species (for example), and then leave it there. I draw the line there, though. Now, if he kills, he eats, no exceptions. I've eaten beaver, lots of deer, moose, wild goose and duck, and a multitude of fish. The beaver and certain types of fish aren't extraordinary, but if it's dead, it will be eaten - it's a matter of respecting and appreciating the life you have taken (at least to me). And I would much rather eat an animal that had a full wild life, and whose life ended swiftly and relatively painlessly, than an animal that lived a miserable life, suffered in death, and ended up in the grocery store (although I also shop in the store).

That being said, there are certain things (arachnids are an example), that I'm not sure I could stomach. I appreciate that others are able to.

Consumer waste is absolutely disgusting to me; whatever someone wants to eat is fine by me, but by god, don't waste what you haven't consumed, just buy less of it.

Kind of a funny story. My father-in-law doesn't hunt and lives in a big house in the suburbs (the faux naturey kind of  neighborhood). So he's been apparently having a big squirrel problem in his attic. He keeps asking me to bring my gun and shoot them. I turn him down each time and explain that I only kill if I'm going to eat it and that these suburban squirrels just aren't wild, so it wouldn't be fair. Hell, the first squirrel I saw after I moved to Chicago had a bagel in it's mouth. Not gonna happen.

big_slacker

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Re: Ignorant food consumers
« Reply #49 on: May 08, 2017, 06:28:13 PM »
So a combination of plant-heme rather than animal-heme AND industrial-scale production in bioreactors. I should have remembered some vegetarians/vegans object to even individual proteins cloned from animals (creates issues when arguing about what types of cheese different people consider to be vegetarian, since a lot of rennet is produced using a gene sequence based on a sequence found in the cattle genome).

Very cool, thanks big_slacker.

Definitely some vegans go WAY down a rathole when it comes to what is acceptable or not, it's a wonder they can eat anything given field mice and bugs being killed when crops are harvested FI.

The podcast dude was formerly a PETA exec and said he had tried the lab meat that was animal derived because he didn't feel ethically any animals were harmed in the production although I'm 1000% sure when he said that a bunch of vegans started marching to his house with torches and pitchforks.