Author Topic: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.  (Read 17490 times)

William

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I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« on: June 02, 2014, 01:24:36 PM »
I was travelling on a bike path parallel to a busy street.  A woman was pulling out of a neighborhood to get onto the busy street.  She was very close to stopping.  But she didn't stop and accelerated her car into the middle of crosswalk.  I had the right of way.  I turned hard to avoid running right into her door.  I hit her bumper/trunk instead.

I flew to the ground, landing in a pile with my bike.  The driver and I both looked right at each other.  I turned my head to get her license plate number in case she ran.  As soon as she saw me do that, she peeled out onto the busy street.

I have a witness (far angrier about the situation as I am).  I have her plates.  I'm fine.  No injuries (had I not been paying attention I could have died I suppose.  Normally I never cross in front of a car unless they make a complete stop and we make eye contact but she was so dang close to stopping I assumed she would.

I called the police and here's where it gets interesting...  Because I hit the bumper it could technically be my fault!

They also said legally, I'm supposed to walk my bike through EVERY intersection.  "That's why they call them 'crosswalks'.  I'm really unsure about that...

I'm not opening an accident report because the police basically told me they won't do anything about it.  If anyone's at fault it looks like it could be me.

If the driver would have just seen I was okay and said she was sorry, I 100% would have shook it all off.  What bothers me most is she ran.  She was about 50 years old, too.  Who does that.  I look like I'm 16.  For all she knew I was a 16-year-old with a broken leg.

So what do you all think/know about the crosswalk 'law' and me running into her bumper?

beltim

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2014, 01:35:37 PM »
That's definitely the law in California:
Quote
bicycles are generally prohibited from riding on sidewalks or in crosswalks. An exception to this is on marked crosswalks of multi-use paths. On multi-use paths, bicyclists function as pedestrians at intersections by activating the pedestrian signal and waiting for the light to change in their favor.
from http://catsip.berkeley.edu/california-vehicle-code

I quickly searched for Nebraska law and didn't find the code, but did find this story that confirms that bicyclists must dismount and walk the bike across crosswalks: http://cojmc.webfactional.com/2010/05/13/downtown-a-danger-zone-for-lincoln-cyclists/

StashthatCash

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2014, 01:36:44 PM »
I heard of a similar situation when I was in college in Wisconsin.  My friend was riding his bike to class and got hit while he was in a crosswalk.  Same thing that the driver took off but a by stander called the cops.  When the cops showed up my friend that was hit, got a ticket for riding his bike in the crosswalk and not on the road.  They never caught the person who hit him either.  That seems absolutely dumb to me and I don't understand it at all but that's my 2 cents on the situation. 

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2014, 01:39:09 PM »
I think this is a good situation for calling a lawyer.

Even if you were responsible, isn't she supposed to hang around? Not peel out and leave you in a heap on the side of the road? Plus, you have a witness.

I'd also hold off on saying you're physically fine. You may have whiplash and it'll take until tomorrow or the following day to fell the full effects. I certainly had whiplash when I fell off my bike last summer (no car collision, just took a corner too fast).

Argyle

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2014, 01:42:55 PM »
But as I understand it, you were not at a crosswalk; you were at an intersection, on a bike path.  That's not the same as being in a pedestrian crosswalk.

My guess is that you need to find a way to explain the situation to a police officer in a way that makes the driver's dangerous negligence clear.  I'm afraid I didn't understand it from your description, though I believe it, certainly.  A friend of mine was once a lawyer in a similar case that went to court.  He didn't rehearse his description of the situation, but winged it in the trial.  The jurors were completely confused and the miscreant got off.  So practice your description in front of friends until you have it down so the situation is clear and the driver's negligence completely clear. 

Even if the woman doesn't have to pay any penalty, she should have the fear of God put into her by being pursued for this.  I'm glad you have the witness.  Go for it.

William

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2014, 01:44:50 PM »
That's definitely the law in California:
Quote
bicycles are generally prohibited from riding on sidewalks or in crosswalks. An exception to this is on marked crosswalks of multi-use paths. On multi-use paths, bicyclists function as pedestrians at intersections by activating the pedestrian signal and waiting for the light to change in their favor.
from http://catsip.berkeley.edu/california-vehicle-code

I quickly searched for Nebraska law and didn't find the code, but did find this story that confirms that bicyclists must dismount and walk the bike across crosswalks: http://cojmc.webfactional.com/2010/05/13/downtown-a-danger-zone-for-lincoln-cyclists/

Ah, I appreciate the article about Lincoln.

I really don't want to ride on the streets but I also really don't want to dismount every single block.  I've been biking everywhere in my city for 1.5 years but this is a little off-putting.

matchewed

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2014, 01:47:08 PM »
Depends on your local laws. Many of them are constructed in such a way that if you're on a bike path you are supposed to stop and dismount at intersections to cross. You failed to do so. If the assumption that your local laws follows what many laws do then yes you are at fault. Figure out what your law states and proceed from there.

If someone ran into my car I'd stop to make sure they're okay. Sure you have a personal right to feel raw about that. But you may very well have been just as at fault in the eyes of the law.

Many of the laws also state that if you're in the street you are considered a vehicle and won't have to act like a pedestrian when crossing intersections. You may just need to adjust where you ride.

William

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2014, 01:52:07 PM »
But as I understand it, you were not at a crosswalk; you were at an intersection, on a bike path.  That's not the same as being in a pedestrian crosswalk.

My guess is that you need to find a way to explain the situation to a police officer in a way that makes the driver's dangerous negligence clear.  I'm afraid I didn't understand it from your description, though I believe it, certainly.  A friend of mine was once a lawyer in a similar case that went to court.  He didn't rehearse his description of the situation, but winged it in the trial.  The jurors were completely confused and the miscreant got off.  So practice your description in front of friends until you have it down so the situation is clear and the driver's negligence completely clear. 

Even if the woman doesn't have to pay any penalty, she should have the fear of God put into her by being pursued for this.  I'm glad you have the witness.  Go for it.

I understand your point about the crosswalks and no I wasn't in one.  But I specifically asked the officer if I have to dismount at each intersection and she said yes although it was a little unconvincing.  I've not see that law in writing and I've read the city's biking ordinances..

And I'm always too kind so you're right, I didn't peg the woman as being a reckless driver as I probably should have.  The witness also saw the woman look down at me and then 'peel out'.

If she is a halfway decent person, seeing me on the way to work each day from now on should make her feel pretty bad...

DollarBill

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2014, 05:51:36 PM »
Is there a difference between riding on the road and on the cross walk? I always ride in traffic not on side walks. If I'm riding the side walks I can understand them wanting me to walk my bike across...well not really but I can see their legal point.

Zora

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2014, 06:01:20 PM »
Get a lawyer!  Don't let the driver get away with it.

Gin1984

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2014, 06:03:21 PM »
I know absolutely nothing about the relevant law in Nebraska, especially not about any distinctions between bike path intersections, on one hand, and cross walks, on the other. However, I am fairly knowledgeable about the laws that are most relevant to me as a cyclist in my home state, and on the basis of that and my experience with police officers in regard to those laws, I doubt the police officer or officers with whom you spoke are much more knowledgeable your local laws than I am.
Sadly, I think this person may be right, please talk to a lawyer.

Eric

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2014, 06:06:16 PM »
What would be the point of contacting a lawyer if there were little to no damage to either bike or person?

Zamboni

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2014, 06:06:54 PM »
^Exactly.

Disclaimers:  I also don't know the relevant laws for Nebraska (or my state, for that matter.)  I am also not a lawyer.

But, if you were not hurt, then I don't think you should spend your time on it.  She probably just doesn't have insurance and she panicked.  That doesn't make it okay in my book, but that's probably what happened. 

Also, she did not hit you with the front of her car; she was stopped or nearly stopped waiting for car traffic to clear and you hit the rear of her car.  She will say she was completely stopped (she might even think she was completely stopped.)  She can plausibly say that she just didn't see you, that you weren't riding in the road where she was looking for cars, or that she doesn't even recall any incident with a bike.  The cops won't pursue it even though there is a witness because you weren't hurt, there wasn't major property damage, and they have better things to do. 

If the cops haven't written her a ticket, you weren't hurt, and it doesn't sound like your bike has major damage, then what are your damages if you take her to civil court?  Probably not worth your time. 

PS I'm glad you weren't hurt.

ChrisLansing

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2014, 06:56:58 PM »
I don't know if you need a bicycle face punch or not because I'm not sure whether you were in a pedestrian crosswalk or still on the designated bike path.   

If you are going to operate a 22 lb vehicle in urban combat with 3,000 lb vehicles it might be good to know what the laws are.     Know where you are supposed to ride and operate predictably.       

Where I live I see many cyclists morph from cyclist/road vehicle operator to "pedestrian" riding through crosswalks.   For motorists it's difficult to tell if they are operating vehicles on the road or operating vehicles in pedestrian rights of way (which they are not supposed to do) 

Sorry to be harsh when you are probably looking for some sympathy.   I'm a frequent bike rider too, so I have little patience for cyclists who don't know what they are doing - though that may not apply to you.   

If you were in a designated bike lane I think the cops are wrong about having to dismount at each intersection.   If you were in a crosswalk, the cops are likely correct.   

Since you were not physically injured (hopefully - time will tell) I wouldn't be in a hurry to get a lawyer.   

Gin1984

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2014, 07:22:53 PM »
I don't know if you need a bicycle face punch or not because I'm not sure whether you were in a pedestrian crosswalk or still on the designated bike path.   

If you are going to operate a 22 lb vehicle in urban combat with 3,000 lb vehicles it might be good to know what the laws are.     Know where you are supposed to ride and operate predictably.       

Where I live I see many cyclists morph from cyclist/road vehicle operator to "pedestrian" riding through crosswalks.   For motorists it's difficult to tell if they are operating vehicles on the road or operating vehicles in pedestrian rights of way (which they are not supposed to do) 

Sorry to be harsh when you are probably looking for some sympathy.   I'm a frequent bike rider too, so I have little patience for cyclists who don't know what they are doing - though that may not apply to you.   

If you were in a designated bike lane I think the cops are wrong about having to dismount at each intersection.   If you were in a crosswalk, the cops are likely correct.   

Since you were not physically injured (hopefully - time will tell) I wouldn't be in a hurry to get a lawyer.
The reason I disagree on the lawyer is that you need to protect yourself.  No matter what, she was wrong for the leaving the scene of an accident.  Also, you need to know what the laws in your state are.  And since I have feeling that, if you were in the bike lane, you were operating as a vehicle therefore the cop may be wrong, BUT you don't want to get blindsided if you really were in the wrong so either way, I'd be checking with someone who knows the law.  And if the cop is wrong I would be working with the lawyer to force the police to take it seriously.  But then again, it is a value thing to me, I don't agree with people harming others.

Argyle

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2014, 07:36:36 PM »
Leaving the scene of the crime sounds as if she's tacitly admitting guilt there.  I don't know if there's any way you can go after her, but she deserves to be gone after.  And I absolutely cannot believe that the law requires you to walk your bike in a bike lane.  I'd think in fact that the law probably prohibits you walking in a bike lane.

market timer

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2014, 08:22:16 PM »
What do you hope to get from this driver?

wtjbatman

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2014, 08:36:07 PM »
But then again, it is a value thing to me, I don't agree with people harming others.

You mean the OP harming the driver's car? Because he admitted that he hit her. She was rear ended by him and his bike. He's absolutely at fault.

If anything, keep the license plate and witness names and phone numbers (you got them, right?) in a safe place, in case medical problems develop. Then consider contacting a lawyer. No reason to do it before then.

waltworks

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2014, 09:59:03 PM »
I'd say this was a cheap lesson. You should always assume that A) people in cars don't know you're there, B) if they do know, they may or may not care, and C) if they do care, they may actually do something to put you in *more* danger with bad and/or aggressive driving.

Intersections are super dangerous. If you are on a bike path that crosses surface streets a lot - just ride on the surface streets. You're much safer.

-W

Primm

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2014, 10:30:29 PM »
What would be the point of contacting a lawyer if there were little to no damage to either bike or person?

This is the same as saying "why did the person end up losing their licence for drink driving? They didn't hit anybody with their car, nobody was hurt".

The law in most western countries punishes the action before the consequences. Obviously there are exceptions, such as attempted murder vs. murder, but generally speaking the actions of the person committing the crime are what is in question, not what happened as a result of the crime. Break and enter = break and enter, whether the perpetrator got $10 or $1,000,000 as a result.

So in this case a woman in a car hit a bike rider was in a collision with a bike rider (fault undetermined but unimportant) and left the scene of the collision. The consequences are both relevant and not important. For all she knew the rider was younger than he was and critically injured. You don't have to be unconscious to be dying. If the bike rider had died as a result of the action of the driver, would you then be saying "why call a lawyer?" If not, if you think she should have the book thrown at her if the bike rider had died, I ask you to think very carefully, what's the difference in what the driver did between that hypothetical situation and what actually happened?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 10:32:54 PM by Primm »

wtjbatman

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2014, 10:50:47 PM »
What would be the point of contacting a lawyer if there were little to no damage to either bike or person?

This is the same as saying "why did the person end up losing their licence for drink driving? They didn't hit anybody with their car, nobody was hurt".

The law in most western countries punishes the action before the consequences. Obviously there are exceptions, such as attempted murder vs. murder, but generally speaking the actions of the person committing the crime are what is in question, not what happened as a result of the crime. Break and enter = break and enter, whether the perpetrator got $10 or $1,000,000 as a result.

So in this case a woman in a car hit a bike rider was in a collision with a bike rider (fault undetermined but unimportant) and left the scene of the collision. The consequences are both relevant and not important. For all she knew the rider was younger than he was and critically injured. You don't have to be unconscious to be dying. If the bike rider had died as a result of the action of the driver, would you then be saying "why call a lawyer?" If not, if you think she should have the book thrown at her if the bike rider had died, I ask you to think very carefully, what's the difference in what the driver did between that hypothetical situation and what actually happened?

It is important, and even the OP admits he hit her rear bumper. And she wasn't backing up. That means he hit her, and he is at fault. The reason it is important that he is at fault, is that IF he had been injured (or died) it wouldn't be "as a result of the action of the driver". It would be as a result of his own actions.

I understand the knee jerk reaction here is that the vulnerable bike rider was hit by someone in a much larger and heavier motor vehicle. But that's not what happened, and that changes everything.

Argyle

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2014, 11:21:41 PM »
As I understand it, he hit her because she pulled out in front of him.  He had the right of way and was crossing the intersection when she pulled out in front of him.  Furthermore, you don't leave the scene of an accident, no matter whose fault it was, without exchanging contact and insurance information.  He was still on the ground when she skedaddled out of there without checking to see how he was and without giving any information.  Not cool, and I imagine not legal.  And the very fact that she left so fast suggests that she knew the collision was her fault.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 11:23:26 PM by Argyle »

wtjbatman

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2014, 11:38:30 PM »
As I understand it, he hit her because she pulled out in front of him.

Believe it or not, legally that doesn't matter. It's the same reason that if you're driving a car, and someone pulls out in front of you, and you rear end them... you are at fault. Why? Because you hit them. You shouldn't have been driving so fast/should have slowed down when there was traffic around/etc.

I'll say that my knowledge comes primarily from laws concerning car accidents. They don't spend a lot of time on bicycle accidents in criminal law courses and cop school ;) I would imagine the law is the same for a bicycle/car accident, but I could be wrong.

Argyle

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2014, 12:42:58 AM »
But if he had the right of way, and she pulled out in front of him despite that, she must have been breaking a law.  It's not a free-for-all at an intersection.  There are rules to prevent everyone coming into the intersection at the same time.  If he had the right of way, she was not allowed to pull into the intersection.  And are you saying that it is permissible to flee the scene of an accident?

wtjbatman

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2014, 01:42:39 AM »
But if he had the right of way, and she pulled out in front of him despite that, she must have been breaking a law.  It's not a free-for-all at an intersection.  There are rules to prevent everyone coming into the intersection at the same time.  If he had the right of way, she was not allowed to pull into the intersection.  And are you saying that it is permissible to flee the scene of an accident?

In most jurisdictions, no, you're not supposed to leave the scene of an accident if you were involved in it. If he's at fault, no one is injured, and there's no damage to his bicycle, no reasonable officer is going to make an effort to track her down and write her a citation. I think most LEO's would react just like the one the OP spoke to. They would tell him that technically he was likely at fault. It's up to him if he wants to pursue criminal charges (not likely), or civil (who knows nowadays), but like a previous poster asked, what would be the point? What would he be hoping to get from her? An apology from her because after he hit her car, she drove away?

Argyle

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2014, 05:11:24 AM »
I suspect it's right that he's not going to get anything out of her.  But that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve something out of her.  I don't know why there's such an emphasis on "he hit her car! he was bad!"  The truth is that she pulled out in front of him, despite the fact that he had right of way, and that he easily could have been killed, and that it's no thanks to her that he wasn't.  I would like to think that his death would have distressed her, although her response doesn't seem to indicate it.  But rather than check to make sure she hadn't injured someone who might urgently need her help, she took off.  That's despicable.  She was dismissive of the fact that her actions could have killed someone today; I don't think we should be.

GuitarStv

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2014, 06:40:20 AM »
Ugh.  This is the reason that I don't support bike paths along side sidewalks.  They have the same dangers associated with them as cycling on the sidewalk at every intersection.  If you're fine and there was no damage done to your bike, I'd just chalk it up to a learning experience and move on.

It's safer to cycle on the road.  Maybe use the road rather than the bike path next time.

skunkfunk

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2014, 08:29:07 AM »

In most jurisdictions, no, you're not supposed to leave the scene of an accident if you were involved in it. If he's at fault, no one is injured, and there's no damage to his bicycle, no reasonable officer is going to make an effort to track her down and write her a citation.

I don't know about Nebraska, but in Oklahoma it is highly illegal to leave the scene of an accident. If a bicyclist or pedestrian is hit, is a felony to leave, whether or not anyone is hurt or there was any damage.

frugalnacho

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2014, 09:14:21 AM »
As I understand it, he hit her because she pulled out in front of him.

Believe it or not, legally that doesn't matter. It's the same reason that if you're driving a car, and someone pulls out in front of you, and you rear end them... you are at fault. Why? Because you hit them. You shouldn't have been driving so fast/should have slowed down when there was traffic around/etc.

I'll say that my knowledge comes primarily from laws concerning car accidents. They don't spend a lot of time on bicycle accidents in criminal law courses and cop school ;) I would imagine the law is the same for a bicycle/car accident, but I could be wrong.

I don't think that's technically true.  If someone runs a red light and I clip their rear end I am at fault? Or someone cuts you off and slams on the brakes?  I could go out right now and get myself rear ended 100% my fault if I wanted to.

Also cops are idiots and their grasp of the law is tenuous at best.  At least from my experience with cops.

Eric

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2014, 09:53:07 AM »
What would be the point of contacting a lawyer if there were little to no damage to either bike or person?

This is the same as saying "why did the person end up losing their licence for drink driving? They didn't hit anybody with their car, nobody was hurt".

The law in most western countries punishes the action before the consequences. Obviously there are exceptions, such as attempted murder vs. murder, but generally speaking the actions of the person committing the crime are what is in question, not what happened as a result of the crime. Break and enter = break and enter, whether the perpetrator got $10 or $1,000,000 as a result.

So in this case a woman in a car hit a bike rider was in a collision with a bike rider (fault undetermined but unimportant) and left the scene of the collision. The consequences are both relevant and not important. For all she knew the rider was younger than he was and critically injured. You don't have to be unconscious to be dying. If the bike rider had died as a result of the action of the driver, would you then be saying "why call a lawyer?" If not, if you think she should have the book thrown at her if the bike rider had died, I ask you to think very carefully, what's the difference in what the driver did between that hypothetical situation and what actually happened?

Whether the driver was at fault or not is inconsequential.  I'm sure she was.  The point is, contacting a lawyer will not do anything.  For a lawyer to bring a civil suit, there must be damages.  In THIS CASE, there were no damages, therefore there's nothing a lawyer could do.  If there were damages, such as injuries or even broken bikes, then yes, by all means, contact a lawyer.  But there were none, so there's no point.

BFGirl

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2014, 09:57:52 AM »
What would be the point of contacting a lawyer if there were little to no damage to either bike or person?

This is the same as saying "why did the person end up losing their licence for drink driving? They didn't hit anybody with their car, nobody was hurt".

The law in most western countries punishes the action before the consequences. Obviously there are exceptions, such as attempted murder vs. murder, but generally speaking the actions of the person committing the crime are what is in question, not what happened as a result of the crime. Break and enter = break and enter, whether the perpetrator got $10 or $1,000,000 as a result.

So in this case a woman in a car hit a bike rider was in a collision with a bike rider (fault undetermined but unimportant) and left the scene of the collision. The consequences are both relevant and not important. For all she knew the rider was younger than he was and critically injured. You don't have to be unconscious to be dying. If the bike rider had died as a result of the action of the driver, would you then be saying "why call a lawyer?" If not, if you think she should have the book thrown at her if the bike rider had died, I ask you to think very carefully, what's the difference in what the driver did between that hypothetical situation and what actually happened?

Whether the driver was at fault or not is inconsequential.  I'm sure she was.  The point is, contacting a lawyer will not do anything.  For a lawyer to bring a civil suit, there must be damages.  In THIS CASE, there were no damages, therefore there's nothing a lawyer could do.  If there were damages, such as injuries or even broken bikes, then yes, by all means, contact a lawyer.  But there were none, so there's no point.

Agreed.  Although her behavior was wrong and she made a mistake, what is the point of pursuing this any further?  Retribution?  Making sure she is duly punished?  I have made plenty of mistakes in my life and I would hate to think that those involved were determined to see that I was punished for the sake of being punished.

BlueMR2

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2014, 10:00:07 AM »
So what do you all think/know about the crosswalk 'law' and me running into her bumper?

That's the law in Ohio last time I checked too.  Not enforced unless you're involved in an incident though.

As far as calling the police, if I was hit and the driver ran for it, and I was "OK", I'd just move on with life and not even call the police.  They don't want to be bugged with little things like that and are in fact annoyed when bugged like that.  Don't invite "the man" into your life unnecessarily, especially if it annoys them.  It won't end well for anyone.  :-)

Eric

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2014, 10:04:30 AM »
Agreed.  Although her behavior was wrong and she made a mistake, what is the point of pursuing this any further?  Retribution?  Making sure she is duly punished?  I have made plenty of mistakes in my life and I would hate to think that those involved were determined to see that I was punished for the sake of being punished.

And even if he wanted retribution, it's not a lawyer who would do it.  He'd have to go through the police, as this is a criminal matter (fleeing the scene of an accident), not a civil one.

Glenstache

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2014, 10:23:40 AM »
Regardless of the details of the OP's case, we should all know our local bike laws when we are riding. Many police officers are ignorant of actual bicycle laws.

Here is a listing of laws by state. Many cities have an overlay of laws, usually relating to if it is/isn't legal to ride on sidewalks, etc.
 
http://bikeleague.org/content/state-bike-laws-0

 

Jack

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2014, 10:52:38 AM »
Ugh.  This is the reason that I don't support bike paths along side sidewalks.  They have the same dangers associated with them as cycling on the sidewalk at every intersection.  If you're fine and there was no damage done to your bike, I'd just chalk it up to a learning experience and move on.

It's safer to cycle on the road.  Maybe use the road rather than the bike path next time.

Sooner or later, some maimed/disabled/deceased cyclist with an aggressive lawyer is going to cause the revocation of the licenses of the dumbass engineers who designed such unsafe paths. As an engineer [in training] myself, I believe that expecting cyclists on bike paths to dismount at every driveway is categorically unreasonable.

Whether the driver was at fault or not is inconsequential.  I'm sure she was.  The point is, contacting a lawyer will not do anything.  For a lawyer to bring a civil suit, there must be damages.  In THIS CASE, there were no damages, therefore there's nothing a lawyer could do.  If there were damages, such as injuries or even broken bikes, then yes, by all means, contact a lawyer.  But there were none, so there's no point.

I agree that it's pointless to pursue civil damages. However, I think it's entirely possible that there could be criminal liability here, and that it may be perfectly appropriate for the OP to go talk to a police supervisor or maybe district attorney about whether proper police procedure was followed and whether the driver should be cited (not sued, cited).

It might also be worth having a chat with the local politicians about making the bike path safer.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 10:54:49 AM by Jack »

dragoncar

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2014, 10:58:04 AM »
Too many different things I agree with here to individually quote, so I'll just summarize the good points:

- I am not a Nebraska lawyer, and don't know anything about Nebraska law.
- If you were riding in the the crosswalk, give yourself a facepunch from me.  If you want pedestrian rights, hop off the bike.
- I don't see how someone could possibly be at fault if you rearend someone who cuts you off (assuming you are otherwise driving safely).  However, this may be difficult to prove.
- In most states I know, it is indeed very illegal to leave the scene of an accident where someone is injured or damage exceeds a certain value.  I'm sure there was at least minor injury, so if you're out for revenge you could ask the DA to press charges.  However, that opens up the issue of your liability in the matter (see above).
- If you're out for money, fat chance.

lisahi

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2014, 11:07:39 AM »
As others have said -- the local law is what mattered.  Here in South Texas, a fire chief was riding his bike on the sidewalk along a 60 mph highway.  He crossed into an intersection (with a crosswalk) when he had the green walking man signal.  A car off of the highway made a right turn into the intersection and hit him. The person determined to be at fault -- the driver -- even though they both technically had a green light. The driver was supposed to yield to the bike. (The fire chief was injured, but not killed).

Also, in pretty much every jurisdiction in the United States, who hits who doesn't necessarily indicate who is at fault (although it can play a role). "Right-of-way" is extremely important. I recently worked on a matter where a lady hit another vehicle on the passenger side, but since the other vehicle was turning left across the lady's lane, it was determined to be at fault (even though technically, the lady hit the other vehicle).

In some jurisdictions, how bicyclists are treated, and how they can act, will determine whether they are afforded the pedestrian right-of-way.  In Texas, unless local city ordinances prohibit it, bicycles can ride on sidewalks and through crosswalks. They can either act like cars or act like pedestrians.

As for whether you should contact a lawyer... unless you're just somebody who can't let go, I don't see the purpose. That's just me talking, not my legal training (I am not giving legal advice). But if you're not hurt, what's the point? To feel vindicated? To make the woman suffer? What she did was really sh**y, but it's over now and you're not hurt. If she has any conscience at all, she probably feels like crap and is riddled with guilt and worry anyway.

William

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2014, 11:26:21 AM »
As for whether you should contact a lawyer... unless you're just somebody who can't let go, I don't see the purpose. That's just me talking, not my legal training (I am not giving legal advice). But if you're not hurt, what's the point? To feel vindicated? To make the woman suffer? What she did was really sh**y, but it's over now and you're not hurt. If she has any conscience at all, she probably feels like crap and is riddled with guilt and worry anyway.

True, I won't contact a lawyer as I have no end goal in sight.  I can let this go.

Before I started biking in this city, I read through the biking ordinances and it said nothing about dismounting.  Poorly written.  Go figure.  But honestly, I agree, it is so unreasonable to ask bikers to dismount through each and every intersection.  No wonder everyone drives cars if this is the case.

And about hitting her bumper/trunk...  I t-boned into the car after she crossed into the intersection (no crosswalk per say).  It's not as though I ran into the rear of her car from behind because I couldn't stop in time.  Had I not swerved I would've smashed into her door and flown over the car.

And true, she shouldn't feel too grand about all this.  Especially if she sees travelling to work each day on my beat up bicycle.

SnackDog

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2014, 12:06:05 PM »
My father was in a somewhat similar incident.  The bike path crossed the entrance to a parking lot for a convenience store.  A motorist made a left turn through a gap in traffic. My old man collided with the fender of his car at about 15 mph, went over the hood of the car and landed on his back. He was transported to the hospital and released.  His bike frame and wheel were bent.

He sued the motorist in small claims court, who I believe counter-sued for damage to his car. The judge decided the fault was 90% motorist and 10% cyclist.  So I think my dad got a couple hundred dollars out of it, which sort of covered his insurance deductible.

In another case, a co-worker was cycling in the road and was creamed from behind by a drunk driver, resulting in many broken bones and a long hospital stay.  It took him about two years to recover.  He would have been better off using the bike path.   The driver was never charged and declined to pay for his bike.

phred

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2014, 12:06:37 PM »
this wasn't really a rear-end collision with cyclist at fault as car-woman pulled out and turned. 

Don't choose any ol' lawyer.  Contact the bike shops in town/nearest city to find a lawyer who is also a rider.

At the very least you can sue for loss of consortium and PTSD.  Settle for a new bike -- at least a Surly

If driver thinks she got away with it then the educational opportunity will be wasted

DoubleDown

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2014, 12:12:09 PM »
I once encountered a crazy, dangerous, and aggressive road rage driver -- crazy ass speeding, swerving in and out of traffic, racing down the shoulders of the road, cutting people off, etc. I took note of her license plate and called the police. They did not catch her at the time or witness her behavior, but they said I could go to the local magistrate (court) in my state and swear out a warrant for her arrest. I did that, and I'm glad I did.

They found her car at her house a day or two later, which had since been involved in an accident and was damaged (shocker). She had a long record of driving infractions/convictions, and her license had already been suspended (shocker). They cited her for aggressive driving and driving while suspended, and with her prior record was facing some potentially stiff jail time (minimum 1 year). I was summoned to go to court to testify against her. She pleaded guilty to some lesser charges 5 mins. before her trial and she was sentenced. I'm glad I pursued it, otherwise I feel like she would be left thinking there's no problem for her to just continue her behavior without at least some kind of negative consequence, not to mention possibly maiming or killing someone in the future.

Argyle

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2014, 01:50:08 PM »
That's a good point -- if this woman took off because she's driving uninsured or driving without a license, she ought to be nabbed.  If she was driving without a license, there might be a good reason for that.

If you spot her on your commute, you can see if she's an erratic driver generally -- assuming she doesn't try to run you down.

capital

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #42 on: June 03, 2014, 08:25:43 PM »
Unfortunately, police often don't take bike crashes as seriously as they should— you should get in touch with your local bike advocacy group, which appears to be this:
http://bicyclincoln.org/
A hit and run is a crime, and should be treated as such.

It looks like Lincoln has these weird sidewalk-like bike path things:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.857412,-96.704591,3a,75y,218.24h,66.95t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sFMEtrYcBdoJB55fzKZ-SPQ!2e0!5m1!1e3
I'd guess you were riding along one of those? Unfortuantely, they might well be some sort of legal gray area— if they're a "sidewalk" under the law, it looks like you're SOL per 10.48.130(b):
http://www.lincoln.ne.gov/city/attorn/lmc/ti10/ch1048.pdf
That's a pretty stupid law in my book, and it appears mostly intended to get bicyclists out of the way.

Although the driver, if she had a stop sign, wouldn't have been lawfully approaching if she didn't stop.

On the other hand, if the trails fall under some non-sidewalk part of the law, you're 100% in the right— road users from a side road always need to yield right of way to road users on the main road.

You should discuss this with local bike advocates, and potentially an attorney. Even if you don't want money, you want to make it very clear to this woman that hit and run is not OK.

Oscar_C

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #43 on: June 03, 2014, 10:02:41 PM »
I was travelling on a bike path parallel to a busy street.  A woman was pulling out of a neighborhood to get onto the busy street.  She was very close to stopping.  But she didn't stop and accelerated her car into the middle of crosswalk.  I had the right of way.  I turned hard to avoid running right into her door.  I hit her bumper/trunk instead.

I flew to the ground, landing in a pile with my bike.  The driver and I both looked right at each other.  I turned my head to get her license plate number in case she ran.  As soon as she saw me do that, she peeled out onto the busy street.

I have a witness (far angrier about the situation as I am).  I have her plates.  I'm fine.  No injuries (had I not been paying attention I could have died I suppose.  Normally I never cross in front of a car unless they make a complete stop and we make eye contact but she was so dang close to stopping I assumed she would.

I called the police and here's where it gets interesting...  Because I hit the bumper it could technically be my fault!

They also said legally, I'm supposed to walk my bike through EVERY intersection.  "That's why they call them 'crosswalks'.  I'm really unsure about that...

I'm not opening an accident report because the police basically told me they won't do anything about it.  If anyone's at fault it looks like it could be me.

If the driver would have just seen I was okay and said she was sorry, I 100% would have shook it all off.  What bothers me most is she ran.  She was about 50 years old, too.  Who does that.  I look like I'm 16.  For all she knew I was a 16-year-old with a broken leg.

So what do you all think/know about the crosswalk 'law' and me running into her bumper?

The same thing happened to me last week just in front of where I work. Thankfully, she did stop after hitting me and a report was filed. When looking for an attorney, the first one said the same thing as well. Essentially, even if I was hit, I was in the wrong? I agree it is inconvenient it is that we can't bike at a crosswalk, given the little amount of traffic.

What would be the point of contacting a lawyer if there were little to no damage to either bike or person?

In the event he was unable to work due to injuries (as in my case) then it's fully justified.
Since that's not the case I'd call a lawyer just to  see if the other party can be blamed due to negligence and leaving the scene.
Unfortunately, I'm biased based on what happened to me
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 10:11:21 PM by Oscar_C »

Gin1984

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2014, 06:42:21 AM »
this wasn't really a rear-end collision with cyclist at fault as car-woman pulled out and turned. 

Don't choose any ol' lawyer.  Contact the bike shops in town/nearest city to find a lawyer who is also a rider.

At the very least you can sue for loss of consortium and PTSD.  Settle for a new bike -- at least a Surly

If driver thinks she got away with it then the educational opportunity will be wasted

This is immoral in the extreme!

Why do you say that?

TreeTired

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2014, 08:25:29 AM »
I don't mean to sound lordly or condescending,  because I could easily get hit and killed by a careless motorist no matter what I do,  but when I ride my bike my number 1 rule of the road is my own personal safety.   I ride very defensively and do what I think will protect myself.   Following the letter of the law is secondary.   If I have a clear extended view when I reach an intersection,   I may not stop for a stop sign...  I might even ride through a red light.  If I see a car approaching a stop sign in front of me I don't assume that driver will stop.   I remember being in a similar situation to the OP as I approached an intersection with a Volvo sedan stopped at the stop sign.   As I approached,  the lady driver decided to pull out in front of me.  I was riding slow enough to stop before I hit her,  but just for good measure I gave her rear door a good loud smack with my hand.   Definitely got her attention. 

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2014, 10:26:24 AM »
Regardless of the details of the OP's case, we should all know our local bike laws when we are riding. Many police officers are ignorant of actual bicycle laws.

Here is a listing of laws by state. Many cities have an overlay of laws, usually relating to if it is/isn't legal to ride on sidewalks, etc.
 
http://bikeleague.org/content/state-bike-laws-0

Thanks for that link. Uber helpful.

marblejane

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2014, 11:19:54 AM »
Hi William- I would suggest that you contact a lawyer. Here's a fairly reputable blog that can help you find one: http://www.bikelaw.com/cambio-corsa/

In your case, I would contact a lawyer to be sure that I understood the law, and who is at fault. I would also consider visiting a doctor to get checked out. Remember, just because you felt fine after the accident, it doesn't mean that you weren't injured.

EMP

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2014, 02:26:02 PM »
I'm going to assume you were on Vine.  I affectionately(?) refer to the intersection of Vine and Antelope Valley as the Pedestrian Mangler. 

Glad you're OK. 

William

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Re: I was Victim of a Hit-and-Run This Morning. Bike v. Car.
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2014, 01:38:58 PM »
Unfortunately, police often don't take bike crashes as seriously as they should— you should get in touch with your local bike advocacy group, which appears to be this:
http://bicyclincoln.org/
A hit and run is a crime, and should be treated as such.

It looks like Lincoln has these weird sidewalk-like bike path things:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.857412,-96.704591,3a,75y,218.24h,66.95t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sFMEtrYcBdoJB55fzKZ-SPQ!2e0!5m1!1e3
I'd guess you were riding along one of those? Unfortuantely, they might well be some sort of legal gray area— if they're a "sidewalk" under the law, it looks like you're SOL per 10.48.130(b):
http://www.lincoln.ne.gov/city/attorn/lmc/ti10/ch1048.pdf
That's a pretty stupid law in my book, and it appears mostly intended to get bicyclists out of the way.

Although the driver, if she had a stop sign, wouldn't have been lawfully approaching if she didn't stop.

On the other hand, if the trails fall under some non-sidewalk part of the law, you're 100% in the right— road users from a side road always need to yield right of way to road users on the main road.

You should discuss this with local bike advocates, and potentially an attorney. Even if you don't want money, you want to make it very clear to this woman that hit and run is not OK.

Thanks for taking the time to post this info!