I want to quit my job

[frugalnacho]

This company isn't the perfect fit, but I wanted to stick it out and gain some experience since a lot of the aspects of this job were new to me.  Then 9 months in covid hit, and this company doesn't take it seriously (among a million other things).  I wished I was FIRE, but I'm not, so decided to just grind out the pandemic and keep building the stach.  My start date anniversary came and went, and there was no review (and no raise).  They stopped doing raises and even laid a bunch of people off during covid, so I didn't press the issue, just kept my head down and kept plugging away.  I started looking for a new job and interviewed a few places towards the end of 2020.  Then I reconnected with two former coworkers that want to be partners and start a business together, only problem is they are still under a no solicit/no service agreement for 1 year after they leave their current company, so it kind of put a damper on starting a company and hitting the ground running with their current clients.  But that is still the plan, so I stopped actively job hunting, and I have had absolutely zero motivation at my current company, and at this point I don't do anything that isn't absolutely required.  My 2 year work anniversary came and went, and still no review and raise.  I haven't pushed the issue because I am seriously slacking off and don't give a fuck about this place.  I definitely don't deserve a raise with the amount of effort I have been putting in, and I'm not concerned about losing out on the compounding effect of a raise since I won't be here long term.  I just want to avoid my boss and not do anything. 

Both business partners have left their firm in the last few months, and we are tentatively planning to start the business in 2022, in either the 1st or 2nd Q. 

We just had our second child in September as well.  I took 3 weeks unpaid FLMA and came back in October.  My plan was to work the rest of the year, then resign in January since I will receive 3 weeks PTO on Jan 1 and the company pays out PTO if you leave.  It seemed so tempting to work through the end of the year to not leave that PTO on the table.   

Starting next week there are 8 weeks left in 2021, so 40 working days.  I have 2 vacation days left.  4 of those days are holidays as well, leaving 34 actual working days for the rest of 2021.  I will earn about $14k for working those 8 weeks, plus I'll get about $5k in PTO making my total gain $19k.  I really don't want to be here, but it's hard to walk away knowing I'll be losing over $550/day.  The closer it gets to Jan 1 the less sense it makes to quit and leave 3 weeks PTO on the table.

Networth: $892k
Cash/brokerage investments: $200k
Liquid investments total: $815k
Debt: $167k mortgage at 2.875%, house worth approximately $250k


This year we demo'd our basement, renovated our yard, had a garage built, finished the basement, had a baby in September, and had a huge outdoor harvest in October.  It's been crazy busy, and crazy stressful, and things are still not 100% complete on account of the baby and general life craziness, so I have about 1,000 projects in progress still, and they aren't getting any attention because I go home everyday and deal with dinner and a crying baby and a crying wife until night time, then I also deal with it at night, then get a small fraction of the sleep I need, then I do it all again. My son has been sick for the last week (covid negative) along with a bunch of his classmates, and now I am battling a cold that he gave me.   

I feel like I want to quit and walk away right now, and we could be fine financially, but it's hard to actually pull the trigger and walk away leaving that money on the table.  Plus I will lose my health insurance once I quit, and I don't have a game plan figured out for that yet.  I know this is a bit rambly but I haven't slept much in the last 2 months and it's taking its toll.

Should I just quit right now? Should I wait until January? What am I going to do about health insurance?

[pasadenafr]

Does your wife have health insurance?

If not, I would *definitely* not quit a job with benefits without another one lined up, not with a newborn. I would start looking for a new job now, and wait until I find one - and no, your business partners' idea isn't a new job yet.

I would also probably take some time off, you (and your wife) sound like you need it. Don't make rash decisions in the state of mind you are in.

[frugalnacho]

No she doesn't have insurance and doesn't work.  We'd have to do COBRA, or get a marketplace plan.  Or see if we'd qualify for medicaid on account of no W2 income. 

One of the business partners has thousands of dollars in equipment and walked away from a 6 figure job.  He's been planning this for like the last 5 years.  kind of painted himself into a corner and I don't see him being able to do anything but start the business as planned.  We haven't filed any paperwork, but I'd say the business is like 95% going to happen. 

[thesis]

The general consensus on these forums, and something I believe, too, is that mental health > money

It sounds like you are at or near breaking point. COBRA might be expensive for a family, but is it really that expensive to pay for, say, six months or a year? Besides, surely somebody could weigh in on alternatives.

It sounds like you need some time off now, and you have a lot of money invested. Put a price on 6 months off and ask yourself if you would prefer the money or your sanity. You can always search for another job afterward, too.

[JoePublic3.14]

Oof, tough one. If, and a strong if, you can do a few things to get the stress level down, then it seems like waiting until January would have some benefits. The kid hopefully gets healthy, the first part of winter is not super horrible and so on. But if the large factors are not controllable....well as thesis said, time to get out of there.

[pasadenafr]

No she doesn't have insurance and doesn't work.  We'd have to do COBRA, or get a marketplace plan.  Or see if we'd qualify for medicaid on account of no W2 income. 

Then check how much COBRA would cost, or marketplace plans, but with a newborn, be really careful with deductibles and all that stuff. With a new birth in September, I'm guessing you've reached those for this year already?

Then you need to make sure you can afford all of that (premium, deductible, coinsurance, and no income for the foreseeable future).

One of the business partners has thousands of dollars in equipment and walked away from a 6 figure job.  He's been planning this for like the last 5 years.  kind of painted himself into a corner and I don't see him being able to do anything but start the business as planned.  We haven't filed any paperwork, but I'd say the business is like 95% going to happen.

Not saying it won't happen, I'm saying it hasn't happened yet, and when it will, it also probably won't offer cheap health insurance.

I agree with the mental health > money thing to a degree. You need to do something about that, but you also need to be careful and have all the information that will allow you to make a good decision.

Can you take a few more weeks of unpaid leave? Do you have PTO left for this year? Sick days? How hard do you think it would be to find a new job in the interim?

[Steeze]

see if you work offers any other types of unpaid leaves; personal leave, professional leave, sabbatical, etc. - My wife has ~ 3 months of unpaid leave options available to her after 2 years of service. (I have no such options).

Maybe you can bridge the gap until the end of the year.

[Rusted Rose]

Is there a provision for mental health, counseling or the like in the health care coverage or an employee assistance program? Could be a helpful option if so?

[bmjohnson35]

May be a dumb question, but have you shared all of this with your spouse?  If not, I would suggest the two of you sit down and discuss how you are feeling and see if you come up with some ways to mitigate your stress.

If you do decide to leave, you could always ask your HR if they are considering anymore layoffs.  I would not ask unless you are serious about quitting. If they have noticed your decline in performance, they may want to help your exit.  Maybe they would offer some form of severance package?

Obamacare annual enrollment is active right now.  I highly suggest you go online and see what your costs would be based on your estimated MAGI in 2022.  You can always drop Obamacare once you get alternate insurance, if your situation changes during the year.  As mentioned, Cobra is also an option, even if it's costly.

[Morning Glory]

What is your approximate annual spending?

[iluvzbeach]

FMLA allows for up to 12 weeks of paid leave. Since you’ve only taken 3 weeks, you should have 9 weeks left. Can you work with your doctor to get those additional 9 weeks? It sounds like your mental health could really benefit.

You’d have to continue paying any out of pocket benefits premiums during that time, but most likely only at your regular rate (not COBRA.) Then, immediately give notice upon return and get your three weeks PTO payout. Of course, you’d need to sign up for ACA or COBRA afterward or, perhaps, you’ll even muster the energy to find a part-time job that pays benefits. This could also allow you to keep bringing in money while having time to help your friends get the other business started. First though, get yourself some additional time off for your mental health.

[lhamo]

1)  Have a serious talk with the business partners --nail down a firmer timeline for when they are starting the business/able to bring you on.  Would you be able to start doing stuff unaffected by their non-competes? 

2)  How much of your 200k in brokerage is actually cash?  Could you harvest some LTCG now/in Jan 2022 to give you enough float for 6-24 months while the business gets ramped up? 

I would also strongly consider taking the rest of your unpaid FMLA between now and the end of the year.  Or tell them you can only work 1-2 days/week to extend it a bit further.   Health reasons. 

If your income legitimately drops to below the monthly Medicaid income threshholds you should be able to shift to it at that time and have $0 health costs until your income picks back up for two months in a row in the new company.  YMMV but my family and I have had no issues with care under Medicaid in Washington state -- I just had a screening test turn up some alarming symptoms and was seen at the top regional cancer center for two follow ups within three weeks of the initial appointment.  Only thing I had to pay OOP for was parking.

[JJ-]

I thought FMLA gave 12 weeks for baby bond time. That should cover the rest of the year if you've done 3 weeks.

Agree with others to quit. I decided today to quit in March '22 despite not being FI.

Definitely check out Medicaid and aca plans.

[kina]

Shifting my focus from you to your wife...has she been evaluated for post partum depression? If not, I think this should be at the top of your list to address.

[chemistk]

Some other good responses in the thread.

One factor to consider, too, is the burned bridges that may be coming if you stay longer at your job. Looking beyond starting the company, if that were to fail or you were to part ways with the other two, consider how easy it would be to get another job.

Now on the one hand, you could very well just be FI by that time, but on the other hand phoning it in at your current job isn't doing you a ton of favors. If you leave now, in future interviews it's easier to spin it as "I left because I wasn't aligned with the Company's stance on Covid/vaccinations" or "I left in anticipation of starting this business" vs. "I was fired because I was phoning it in every day".

[former player]

Unless any of the unfinished house and garden projects are current safety issues then (after discussing with spouse, of course) I think you should agree to park them until the baby is at least 6 months old.  That's an immediate bit of pressure that you can take off yourself.

[ToTheMoon]

Time to put the money you have saved to work.

With a young child and a brand new baby, of course you are both sleep-deprived and exhausted. Talk with your wife and figure out what are the current biggest stressors. Then use some of that fat stash to take some pressure off of the two of you!  I am not saying go crazy, but if hiring some help (babysitter, mothers helper, healthy pre-made foods) will help you both get through the next 8-10 weeks and be worth around $19k you can certainly choose to make things a bit easier rather than suffering. This also has the added effect of not having to worry about health insurance right now - from what I have read on these forums, this is not something you want to be directing your limited energy towards at the present moment!

Do you have any friends or family around that you can also ask for help? I know when I was in the throes of this it wouldn't have even occurred to me to ask friends - but if someone in your current situation reached out and asked me to hang with their kiddos and or make a meal or two to help them out I would be more than happy to do so (and I am decidedly NOT a natural nurturer or kid lover!)

[frugalnacho]

Yes FMLA allows up to 12 weeks.  I didn't want to forgo 12 weeks of income initially and thought we could afford 3 and it would be good.  I have to return to work for 30 days after FMLA otherwise I have to reimburse my employer their portion of my health insurance for the time I was on leave.  My thought was the holidays would be a good time to work because it should be lower stress, and has several holidays sprinkled through it.  The week of thanksgiving will be 3 easy days, but because I'm salary I get paid for the whole week.  Similar for christmas and new years, plus I still have a couple vacation days.  At least that was my thinking a couple of months ago, but since coming back my motivation has been sapped.  The last week and a half was unexpected and really kicked my ass; our 4 year old was sick with a cold for a week, and now I'm on about day 5 of the same cold.

The employer+employee portion of my health insurance is about $15.7k/yr, so that would be my COBRA cost.  I could sign up for ACA coverage, but since I'm not retiring and plan to work most of 2022 (and hopefully earn money) I don't know how that will work out for me.  Might end up being cheap if I don't earn anything, but if we are successful and earn a profit it could backfire and exclude me from subsidy eligibility.  I already have too high AGI in 2021 for any subsidies.  I may be able to get on medicaid if they base it on monthly income.

Most of my $200k is in index funds, only about $20k in cash.  I'll need to realize some gains.  I should have enough money to get me through 2021 and then harvest my gains in 2022 though, if I need to wait in order maximize my tax refund this year.  This could again fuck with my medicaid and/or ACA eligibility. 

I have no idea what our actual spending is.  I tracked it years ago, and got us on the path to FIRE saving as much as we can, and just figured we had plenty of time to nail down our exact spending closer to FIRE.  Then we had a child and have had tons of "one off" and "temporary" spending since then.  Pre-school tuition, building a garage, finishing basement, medical bills, diapers, formula, babysitting...etc, all stuff that won't permanently be in our budget, but has been relentless the last few years.  I gauge if we are doing well by how much we save and we max my 401k, and both our IRA's, and throw lots of money into taxable brokerage so we are saving a bunch.  I know we aren't FIRE, but I don't think we are super far away from reaching it either.

I also discussed with my wife about how hard the first year with our first child was (he did not sleep for the entire first year, it was hell) and that in retrospect we should have hired a nanny or someone to help.  Just throw $20k at the problem because it would have been money well spent.  We are planning to hire my MIL to come a few days a week part time to give us some help.  We made this decision a few weeks ago, but she had vacation plans so is off on vacation at the moment, but we should have her helping in the next 1-2 weeks I think. 

[frugalnacho]

Some background on the home projects:

When we found out we were pregnant the plan was to build a garage, move storage from basement into garage and renovate the basement, then convert spare bedroom into nursery, then relax before the baby came.  The garage was supposed to be done in early spring.  Instead we got delay after delay after delay and the final garage inspection didn't come until the end of August, and the baby came early in mid september.  So it was a mad scramble to get shit done, and we actually had a contractor start on the basement while we were in the hospital giving birth.  So right now our entire pantry is on a rolling shelf in the kitchen because we haven't completed the pantry shelving in the basement pantry yet.  All the chemicals that I want to store in the basement so they don't freeze are currently in temporary storage in the garage, and the space in the basement they are getting stored in (under the stairs) is not complete. All the rest of the minor projects can wait, but there is some urgency to get that stuff done sooner. 

[JJ-]

I have no idea what our actual spending is.  I tracked it years ago, and got us on the path to FIRE saving as much as we can, and just figured we had plenty of time to nail down our exact spending closer to FIRE.  Then we had a child and have had tons of "one off" and "temporary" spending since then.  Pre-school tuition, building a garage, finishing basement, medical bills, diapers, formula, babysitting...etc, all stuff that won't permanently be in our budget, but has been relentless the last few years.  I gauge if we are doing well by how much we save and we max my 401k, and both our IRA's, and throw lots of money into taxable brokerage so we are saving a bunch.  I know we aren't FIRE, but I don't think we are super far away from reaching it either.

We're in a similar boat. This feeling on spending resonates well. The only reason I have a good ball park for our spending is thanks to Mint, though I know it appears more inflated than it actually is. 8 years ago I watched budgets like a hawk. Over the last year I noticed 3 months too late that a CC annual fee hit and it was too late to cancel and recoup it.

Re the FMLA and 30 days - does vacation time count toward that 30 day limit? Assuming it's 30 calendar days, and you work 20 days in a month, you may technically only need to "work" 5 days and still get paid for that time come January.

[SunnyDays]

Hire out everything that’s critical to get done - meals, laundry, a sitter so you and your wife can get some sleep (go to a hotel if you have to).  Anything not critical to survival waits.  As long as it costs less than $550 a day, you’re ahead.

Your boss seems content with just having a butt in your chair, so just keep showing up for the next 30ish days.

It will all be worth it.
 

[MaybeBabyMustache]

Hire out everything that’s critical to get done - meals, laundry, a sitter so you and your wife can get some sleep (go to a hotel if you have to).  Anything not critical to survival waits.  As long as it costs less than $550 a day, you’re ahead.

Your boss seems content with just having a butt in your chair, so just keep showing up for the next 30ish days.

It will all be worth it.

This would be my approach.

[MayDay]

If you haven't considered it, get a PP doula for 3-5 nights a week and get some good sleep.

That will make everything easier.

Newborns suck. You have my sympathy.

[KarefulKactus15]

It sucks not having any unpaid leave options even if you are financially set.

I quit my job in 2020.  What happened was they forced us to use our vacation time during Covid even if we didn't want to or had other shit planned for later in the year(If I remember correctly, they didnt even let us off, they just took the vacation in exchange for not terminating us!??, i remember it was a shit deal).    So this gobbled my vacation time all up in March and I wasnt left with a single day off for the rest of the year no matter how bad I needed one and was willing to take it unpaid.    We also had 0 time of during covid and had to show up and work every day onsite for no apparent reason other than greed and stupidity.  So they took our vacation during the most stressful time of my life and also didnt let us have any time off the rest of the year.

So i took the ultimate unpaid vacation and quit!  haha... thatll show em. 


Anyway that doesnt look to be a smart move in your situation.  Do what you need to to make it to 2022.  You have a lot of resources available to you to ease the pain points.

[seemsright]

I remember the newborn stage. I was a mess. I had major PPD. Drs were no help. We decided to throw money at life just to make it easier.

You have a crap job, you have FU money. This is what that money is for. You are allowed to say F$%K it and get your life in order before you jump into a start-up. (Please make sure your wife is 1000% on board...start ups are hard on the family unit)

Yea you may leave some money on the table...but is that money 'really' going to make a difference in your big picture?

Keep what is important and ditch the rest.

[mistymoney]

arrange to take your 3 weeks of PTO off in Jan. With an infant, makes total sense to take that time. Consider your options while you are on that 3 weeks.

[Fru-Gal]

I am in exact same position as you are, counting down the days remaining in 2021, wondering if I can make it. Then I start thinking if I can make it to December 31, why not January 31, an equally quiet month... (The whole year has been like this: make it to June, make it to August, etc...)

Also, my kids are grown but I went through the same crazy needlessly delayed basement remodel thing when I had my first. Only in our case they didn't start jack hammering until the day I came home from the hospital. The contractor (a family friend) used to commiserate with me, a new mother, about how hard the job was and how it wasn't going well. I wasn't sleeping and breastfeeding was incredibly painful (eventually healed up after months). I ultimately had to escape to a far-off relative's house. What a nightmare. You have my sympathies. At least you are ahead of the game in savings. I didn't figure the money shit out until my kids were almost grown.

[frugalnacho]

I'm going to put in my resignation in January and we are getting started on the business right away.  Still deciding when I want to pull cash out of the brokerage for living expenses and start up fund.  I kind of want to wait until January for capital gains purposes, but kind of want to do it asap in case the market drops.

[JJ-]

I'm going to put in my resignation in January and we are getting started on the business right away.  Still deciding when I want to pull cash out of the brokerage for living expenses and start up fund.  I kind of want to wait until January for capital gains purposes, but kind of want to do it asap in case the market drops.

I'm kind of in the same boat and decided to open an account to use margin for living instead of liquidating capital gains. I'm going to be doing Roth conversions to fill up space in the tax bracket.

[lhamo]

I'm going to put in my resignation in January and we are getting started on the business right away.  Still deciding when I want to pull cash out of the brokerage for living expenses and start up fund.  I kind of want to wait until January for capital gains purposes, but kind of want to do it asap in case the market drops.

What is your income/tax situation looking like overall?  If you can snag some LTCG in one of the lower brackets this year I would do some now and then some in January.  Maybe go 25/75 of the amount you think you might need, or even 50/50.

[JJ-]

I'm going to put in my resignation in January and we are getting started on the business right away.  Still deciding when I want to pull cash out of the brokerage for living expenses and start up fund.  I kind of want to wait until January for capital gains purposes, but kind of want to do it asap in case the market drops.

What is your income/tax situation looking like overall?  If you can snag some LTCG in one of the lower brackets this year I would do some now and then some in January.  Maybe go 25/75 of the amount you think you might need, or even 50/50.

This is another viable strategy. Using Roth contributions could also work if he's worried about ACA / Medicaid income metrics

[frugalnacho]

I'm going to put in my resignation in January and we are getting started on the business right away.  Still deciding when I want to pull cash out of the brokerage for living expenses and start up fund.  I kind of want to wait until January for capital gains purposes, but kind of want to do it asap in case the market drops.

What is your income/tax situation looking like overall?  If you can snag some LTCG in one of the lower brackets this year I would do some now and then some in January.  Maybe go 25/75 of the amount you think you might need, or even 50/50.

MFJ.  After maxing 401k and tIRAs likely around $30k in taxable income, so bottom of 12% bracket.  I'll qualify for the savers credit for about $400.  I can realize some LTCG and still get the credit, but I haven't calculated it out exactly.  If I harvest any time before February I should be able to keep my monthly income close to $0 to qualify for medicaid until the business is running well enough to purchase a group plan.  I can forgo the $400 savers credit if necessary, but I want to make sure I'm not going to shoot myself in the foot some other way by harvesting $30k in LTCG in 2021. 

I am anticipating earning less money in 2022 which is why I thought it might be beneficial to have the gains in 2022 instead.  If business takes off and we earn more than expected in 2022, well I guess that's a good problem to have, I just anticipate spending a lot on the business initially, and not getting major clients until later.  Most of the big name clients we have lined up we can't contractually work with until the end of 2022, and just the cyclic nature of the business means 2023 will probably be first time getting paid from those major clients.   

[9patch]

I think that you should not quit until January, but focus on health. You and your wife could alternate nights, so one person gets a good night sleep every other night. Take vacation time now if you have it to rest. Hire out as much as you can (cleaning, handyman). Ask your friends for help. I know that it's awkward to do, but if you have friendly neighbors, you could ask them if they're cooking to make a double batch of food and give some food to you. Basically you need to get sane and rested.

[lhamo]

I think you may be misunderstanding how Long Term Capital Gains are taxed.  MFJ can harvest something like $80k in capital gains at a 0% rate.

GCC has this overview of how they have minimized taxes over the past eight years, including a substantial amount of LTCG taxed at 0%.  They are already retired and have the Foreign Earned Income exclusion to their advantage, too, which doesn't apply to you. But you might find their discussion of other aspects helpful:

https://www.gocurrycracker.com/8-years-of-early-retirement-tax-optimization/

If it were me would be taking enough to ensure I have a hefty cash cushion while you get your new business off the ground.  If it turns out you don't need it just reinvest over time.  That way you'd also be resetting your basis so future LTCG will be lower.

[JJ-]

I think you may be misunderstanding how Long Term Capital Gains are taxed.  MFJ can harvest something like $80k in capital gains at a 0% rate.

GCC has this overview of how they have minimized taxes over the past eight years, including a substantial amount of LTCG taxed at 0%.  They are already retired and have the Foreign Earned Income exclusion to their advantage, too, which doesn't apply to you. But you might find their discussion of other aspects helpful:

https://www.gocurrycracker.com/8-years-of-early-retirement-tax-optimization/

If it were me would be taking enough to ensure I have a hefty cash cushion while you get your new business off the ground.  If it turns out you don't need it just reinvest over time.  That way you'd also be resetting your basis so future LTCG will be lower.

Agreed. He may also be over valuing the savers credit for a one time $400 in lieu of long term 0%LTCG or lower tax rates converted to Roth in the 12% bracket.

It all depends on how much he has available

The case study spreadsheet has a tab dedicated to long term optimization of LTCG vs Roth conversions, but I'd he can't wait 5 years to tap those converted amounts based on limited taxable funds without major cap gains, Roth conversions, or qualified HSA withdrawals, a good short term plan is to eat up expected expenses' worth of cap gains harvest.   

One thought that comes to mind is why not at that income level do Roth IRA contributions in 2022? If you're planning on working more and you won't be in the 12% bracket, it's a convenient time to do it so you have immediate access to those funds if needed.

[frugalnacho]

I understand CG taxes. They are taxed at 0% but still count towards AGI which can disqualify me for tax credits.  The savers credit at $400 is the only one I can think of, but I want to make sure there aren't any other cliffs I might push myself over by inflating my 2021 income. If the tax savers credit is the only ramification I could harvest all my LTCG in 2021 and leave the door open to do large roth conversions in 2022. I only have about $45k in unrealized gains in total.  Total taxable brokerage + savings is around $200k.

I've never done ira to roth conversions, even though I'm always in or below the 12% bracket.  I didn't anticipate filling up the 12% bracket during FIRE so I haven't felt the need to "take advantage" of converting income at 12% tax yet. 

[JJ-]

Here is a link thanks to @secondcor521 on triggers for 2021. For 2022 I'd suspect they go upwards.

Are all of your tax advantages in traditional accounts? If so you may be looking at CG harvesting. I'd suggest considering doing the Roth contributions next year (and maybe recharacterize this year) just so that you have a chance of tapping some funds outside of a taxable to help minimize income / AGI. If you don't plan on being under the 12% bracket ever, there is no sweat on locking in the tax rate now.

One other thing comes to mind is that the 12% bracket is slated to go to 15% in 2025 without further legislation to prevent it.

[snowball]

My plan was to work the rest of the year, then resign in January since I will receive 3 weeks PTO on Jan 1 and the company pays out PTO if you leave.

You sure they'll pay out a year's worth of PTO to resigning employees who haven't worked out the full year?  Every place I've ever worked has "given" its employees the upcoming year's PTO allotment on Jan 1, but it's basically an advance payment, and is clawed back if an employee leaves before year-end;  they only pay out a pro-rated amount, based on how much of the year the employee worked.  Depending on how much PTO the employee has already taken by the time they leave, it sometimes means there is a negative balance of PTO, which is then subtracted from the final paycheque.

Maybe your employer is different, but this bit sounded unusually generous based on my experience (and it doesn't sound like they are generous in other ways).

[frugalnacho]

My plan was to work the rest of the year, then resign in January since I will receive 3 weeks PTO on Jan 1 and the company pays out PTO if you leave.

You sure they'll pay out a year's worth of PTO to resigning employees who haven't worked out the full year?  Every place I've ever worked has "given" its employees the upcoming year's PTO allotment on Jan 1, but it's basically an advance payment, and is clawed back if an employee leaves before year-end;  they only pay out a pro-rated amount, based on how much of the year the employee worked.  Depending on how much PTO the employee has already taken by the time they leave, it sometimes means there is a negative balance of PTO, which is then subtracted from the final paycheque.

Maybe your employer is different, but this bit sounded unusually generous based on my experience (and it doesn't sound like they are generous in other ways).

The employee handbook spells it out explicitly the way I wrote it.  With the amount of employees and turnover they encounter this situation happens a dozen times per year.

[snowball]

Ha, that is very tempting then!

[frugalnacho]

2 more employee departures this week.  The turnover here is crazy.  I feel so happy for a coworker when they announce they've got another job and are leaving this place.  They also seem very happy to be leaving.

[Fru-Gal]

Same in my workplace, tons of departures! I now have my official exit date before year's end.

[HPstache]

I'm going to put in my resignation in January and we are getting started on the business right away.  Still deciding when I want to pull cash out of the brokerage for living expenses and start up fund.  I kind of want to wait until January for capital gains purposes, but kind of want to do it asap in case the market drops.

Starting a business can be extremely stressful and time intensive, I did it with a newborn in 2017 and it was pretty shitty.  I'm not sure what the nature of the business is, it sounds like you work at some sort of a lab from previous posts?  Hopefully starting this with colleagues will help lesson the load, I just hope you're not adding more to your stress level than what sounds like a pretty cushy current job situation even though it's a bad atmosphere.

[frugalnacho]

I'm going to put in my resignation in January and we are getting started on the business right away.  Still deciding when I want to pull cash out of the brokerage for living expenses and start up fund.  I kind of want to wait until January for capital gains purposes, but kind of want to do it asap in case the market drops.

Starting a business can be extremely stressful and time intensive, I did it with a newborn in 2017 and it was pretty shitty.  I'm not sure what the nature of the business is, it sounds like you work at some sort of a lab from previous posts?  Hopefully starting this with colleagues will help lesson the load, I just hope you're not adding more to your stress level than what sounds like a pretty cushy current job situation even though it's a bad atmosphere.

It's cushy in the sense my superiors don't have a clue so I don't constantly have to meet metrics and can fuck off.  I've spent most of today browsing MMM, reddit, and doing my monthly networth update.  But the entire atmosphere is bad and there are huge potential problems.  I can deflect most of the blame and point to emails and conversations where I said X needed to be done, but it's going to be a shit show even if it's not my fault and I don't want to be around for it.

For example we generate hazardous waste in some parts of the building.  Once the waste drum is full a date needs to be written on the label, and it must be moved to our designated waste storage area.  We have several drums in the waste treatment room, and some have been there since September.  If the hazardous waste regulatory body shows up for an inspection that will be a huge violation, and likely a fine.  These assholes all know about the 3 day rule but ignore it anyway.  I have a string of emails to the chemical guys after every weekly inspection I do that shows I told them it needs to be moved.  I've brought it up to my boss.  This has been going on the entire 2.5 years I've been here. No one cares, and no one is going to care until they get busted and get fined, at which point it's going to be a huge headache for me even though I've been telling them to move it.  I'm just tired of repeating myself over and over when no one cares.

Another example: We had a building fire in 2018 before I even worked here.  The lunchroom was in that building.  We now have 7 buildings, and only one contains a lunchroom that is approximately 8'x12', so can accommodate maybe 3 people (and they can't properly social distance) [we have about 80 employees FYI].  So people eat lunch at their stations.  Some in the lab. I eat in my office which is inside of but separate from the lab, but the lab techs eat inside the actual lab. Some out on the floor next to hazardous chemicals.  We have signs posted that you can't have food out on the floor, but there is no place for them to go.  I can't tell them to not eat lunch there when they have no other place to go.  It's going to be a huge OSHA violation when they finally show up and inspect us.  And even though I have no control over building a new lunch room, it's going to land at my feet because everything OSHA related falls under my purview.  Also it's not some arbitrary pedantic overreaching rule from OSHA.  It's a legitimate health concern and they absolutely should not be eating directly next to the tanks, and I feel like I'm failing them even though this situation is completely outside of my control.  I've pleaded with them and stressed how important it is to have a proper lunch space, but it costs money to build a lunchroom and it won't generate any income, so they don't do it.  They acknowledge it's important and needs to be done, but it's been on the back burner since 2018.  I'm skeptical it's actually on the backburner and think they just don't intend to ever build one, but they won't say it directly. 

There are dozens of other examples I could give.  Everything safety falls on me, but I have no authority to reprimand anyone, and no authority to unilaterally make company decisions.  So it's a frustrating situation and feels like a ticking time bomb.  I tried to make improvements around here, but ultimately I'm toothless so I can't force things to happen.  And at this point I'm completely apathetic.  I don't see a future at this company, and I want to GTFO before something wild happens.  Even if I can cover my ass completely so I'm not in legal trouble, I just don't want to be involved with any of this bull shit. 

Also we had 2 more covid cases yesterday.  I don't know who, or what areas they were in.  They only inform employees that were in in close contact by CDC definition (within 6 feet of someone for a cumulative total of 15 minutes or more over a 24-hour period).  How does top management determine if you were in close contact? I don't know, it's a cryptic process and I only find out about positive cases through the grapevine. 

[fuzzy math]

It would be a shame if immediately after you left, they got audited because of a tip off about all those hazardous materials

[former player]

It would be a shame if immediately after you left, they got audited because of a tip off about all those hazardous materials

But at least you would have ensured that your own record of requests for standards compliance was available to them so that blame couldn't be bounced back onto you, right?

[fuzzy math]

It would be a shame if immediately after you left, they got audited because of a tip off about all those hazardous materials

But at least you would have ensured that your own record of requests for standards compliance was available to them so that blame couldn't be bounced back onto you, right?

Maybe a 4" binder that's labeled policies but then when opened has every email printed off listing the violations and dates they were ignored

[frugalnacho]

The new company will be an environmental consulting company specializing in something completely unrelated to my current role, but I plan to hopefully turn my current employer into a client for some of the environmental reporting they have to do.  I don't mind the environmental reporting, and I'm familiar with it, and they won't have anyone in the environmental department so they have to get someone to do it anyway.  Not expecting it to be a significant source of income at all, but it seems like a much better option than just burning a bridge by having surprise inspections immediately upon my departure. 

[frugalnacho]

Took the plunge and just sold $60k worth of vtsax from my brokerage.  I anticipate it will be closer to $61k when it actually executes since market was up (unless it drops in the last 5 minutes of the day).  Should be about $21k in LTCG.  This will disqualify me from getting the savers credit, but the entire $21k will be taxed at 0%.  Between this, the money currently in checking/savings, and what I'm going to earn until my last day I should have somewhere around $90k in cash to get me through 2022 and fund the business start up. 

[dandarc]

Sounds like not too important for you this year, but 2022 and beyond - MDM's spreadsheet continues to prove more and more valuable to me as we venture into the world of subsidized individual health insurance for the first time.

A small LTCG that I thought would be taxed at 0% and had forgotten about is actually taxed at 4.7% between lower PTC, higher SE health insurance deduction and maybe some other stuff adjusting slightly with the new numbers. Still quite low, but the thought hadn't even crossed my mind until I was trying to do a final estimate for 2021 taxes a week ago and remembered to enter that.