I think I want an Empire

[daverobev]

So, I'm sorta-kinda-half-retired (doing self employed stuff, and helping wi' bairn). Something clicked the other day - when people are working, they don't think about optimal investing, early retirement and so on because they are so tired. At least, I was - I am an introvert, so I'd finish the week and basically hide all weekend, feel dread in my stomach on a Sunday afternoon, and avoid thinking about anything much.

I'm a lazy oik, so even with my limited workload (apart from washing nappies), my mind has plenty of time to think about where I can get money to invest more, how I can wrangle some capital to buy an investment property, and so on.

I have 'enough' - for me, I think. EXTREMELY little in comparison to many retirement targets. But I want more - and not by working. By scheming. By making stuff work for me. I can see how it is that the rich get richer - they can sit around thinking of ways to get richer all day long!

So it's interesting. While I was saving/paying off a mortgage with every penny spare I had a couple of years back, my goal was just that: PAY OFF THE MORTGAGE. I was 'foolish' in that I didn't invest more in stocks when they were stupidly cheap (and indeed, before I went travelling in 2009 I had some shares - of a decent blue chip company - that would be worth 4x what I paid for them - but I sold them at maybe 5% profit after being scared!), and rather paid off my income-generating property.

But now I have a solid base - I'm willing to borrow to accumulate, to make an easier/better/more luxurious? life for myself. Or maybe just for fun, something to do. I don't want a job, but I need *something* to keep me busy.

Does this resonate with anyone? Unfortunately I'm still.. I'll use the word 'scared'.. of losing money, or making sub-optimal choices. While I know the theory with stocks they are so much less tangible than a rental house. Oh, I have money in an account that generates $x a year... or, I have a house in Xyz, one in Abc, and one in Def.

I am not Powerful. I am a geek (I was a geek; I care less. But I am a pedant). But I kinda like... money. And *that* makes me feel a little dirty.

Hrm. P'raps this should be in journals.

[vwDavid]

thanks for writing. I can relate to many of your comments.

-David

[arebelspy]

thanks for writing.

+1.  I enjoyed reading it.

I definitely don't want an Empire though.  I calculated I could conservatively have 50MM if I kept working until age 50-60, instead of FIREing decades before that.  Pass.  Enough is plenty for me.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

I had a million-dollar invention this weekend with my son as we sat around.  I sometimes think I should pursue the whole 'patent process' just to show him what is possible, but we have a comfortable life.  I get excited, but then I kinda' kick back so as not to get too caught up in it.  And it will make our life rich, if only in the knowledge that we had the idea before anyone else, like my telling my wife, 'Starbucks really should start offering a drive thru option.  I'm going to open a store for the free Joe (free coffee by owning the store, Iwould guess), but make a killing being the first one with a drive-thru window!'.  She kissed me when she realized how awesome my mind was, that we would never struggle, but now those freakin' drive-thru's are everywhere.  My empire has left me behind...  Unless, what I discussed with my son is viable...

[arebelspy]

I had a million-dollar invention this weekend with my son as we sat around.  I sometimes think I should pursue the whole 'patent process' just to show him what is possible, but we have a comfortable life.  I get excited, but then I kinda' kick back so as not to get too caught up in it.  And it will make our life rich, if only in the knowledge that we had the idea before anyone else, like my telling my wife, 'Starbucks really should start offering a drive thru option.  I'm going to open a store for the free Joe (free coffee by owning the store, Iwould guess), but make a killing being the first one with a drive-thru window!'.  She kissed me when she realized how awesome my mind was, that we would never struggle, but now those freakin' drive-thru's are everywhere.  My empire has left me behind...  Unless, what I discussed with my son is viable...

There's no limit to good ideas. The execution is key.  If you want it, you'll get it.

[Fireman]

I work, but I scheme too.  I keep a running list of ways I can earn extra money or make a living without having to work.  The subject of your thread resonated with me because I have used that word in my head before.  I have a very not-profitable rental that I don't want to sell because, well, it could be the beginning of my real estate empire.  I think about fix and flips, rentals, commercial real estate, land speculation, timber speculation, and farming.  I think about smaller ventures like vending machines, ticket speculation, and reselling, too.  But mostly, I just think about building a real estate empire.

[matchewed]

The part that resonated with me was the talk about a solid base. But I've had the opposite reaction; I feel more secure and am willing to take risks given I have that solid base now.

I can't agree w/ the Empire, unless it is an Empire of experience. The physical stuff (really includes more money than I need in my mind) just doesn't interest me.

[arebelspy]

I have a very not-profitable rental that I don't want to sell because, well, it could be the beginning of my real estate empire
...
But mostly, I just think about building a real estate empire.

What qualifies as a real estate empire?  Does anyone alive have a real estate empire?  Or do lots of people? Is the criteria based on a FMV amount? Number of tenants?  Number of properties or buildings?

(I'm not trying to nitpick or anything, I'm genuinely curious, as I don't know what a "real estate empire" is, so I'm wondering what your definition is.)

How big would you take it, and for what purpose?

[BlueHouse]

What qualifies as a real estate empire?  Does anyone alive have a real estate empire? 

I would guess Donald Trump's holdings would qualify as an Empire. First one that jumped to mind.

[arebelspy]

What qualifies as a real estate empire?  Does anyone alive have a real estate empire? 

I would guess Donald Trump's holdings would qualify as an Empire. First one that jumped to mind.

That was the first that jumped to my mind too, and then made me write that second question, because I rejected that as not meeting.

(People do call it a "Real Estate Empire" though.)

[soccerluvof4]

I can relate as well to many of the OP's comments/feelings. I spend hours a day reading , am a lazy oik as you put it but in my readings am constantly looking for easy ways to make some cash. I too thought of "The Donald" when you mentioned the real-estate empire. Right now I am just trying to read books on the subject so when I sell my vacation property I can start with one to develop another safety net.

[BlueHouse]

What qualifies as a real estate empire?  Does anyone alive have a real estate empire? 

I would guess Donald Trump's holdings would qualify as an Empire. First one that jumped to mind.

That was the first that jumped to my mind too, and then made me write that second question, because I rejected that as not meeting.

(People do call it a "Real Estate Empire" though.)

Re:  that second question not meeting...are you implying that D.Trump is not alive?  I'm very sure that he is. 

[arebelspy]

What qualifies as a real estate empire?  Does anyone alive have a real estate empire? 

I would guess Donald Trump's holdings would qualify as an Empire. First one that jumped to mind.

That was the first that jumped to my mind too, and then made me write that second question, because I rejected that as not meeting.

(People do call it a "Real Estate Empire" though.)

Re:  that second question not meeting...are you implying that D.Trump is not alive?  I'm very sure that he is.

No, I'm saying it's not a real estate empire.

[sly]

cut your living expenses = instant wealth creation!

[Fireman]

I have a very not-profitable rental that I don't want to sell because, well, it could be the beginning of my real estate empire
...
But mostly, I just think about building a real estate empire.

What qualifies as a real estate empire?  Does anyone alive have a real estate empire?  Or do lots of people? Is the criteria based on a FMV amount? Number of tenants?  Number of properties or buildings?

(I'm not trying to nitpick or anything, I'm genuinely curious, as I don't know what a "real estate empire" is, so I'm wondering what your definition is.)

How big would you take it, and for what purpose?

Honestly, I hadn't thought of how one might define an empire.  I grew up knowing a couple people that held a lot of residential properties and I live in an area now that has a few families heavily entrenched in commercial holdings.  To me, they had/have an empire.  You appear to be looking for a quantifiable answer whereas I have only looked at it from a subjective standpoint. 

Giving it some more thought, I would want to own property that generates revenue that is not only self sustaining, but completely covers my income as well.  Maybe, to answer your question, if you can live off your real estate, then you have an empire.

[2527]

I did well in the market crash of 08 and 09, but I could have done much better if I had had a little more confidence and time to think.

[anisotropy]

i want more too, more for me less for everyone else.

[arebelspy]

i want more too, more for me less for everyone else.

You're taking this too far.

[daverobev]

Well, that's the other thing - I really believe in 'fair' but I know the world isn't. I should not be able to buy multiple houses, to invest and do nothing while other people go to work 5 days a week. Except there is a market for rentals. Why not have that as my job.

I'm certainly not.. a noticeable parasite. I mean, I'm talking of increasing my passive income from a little over $1k to $1.5k

But then where? Another house? Why not - because the more I own, the easier it is to buy more - the bank sees me as someone with assets, able to manage my money (their money!).

I feel absolutely ecstatic with my solid base. Just need to get my wife's finances to the same place (not that she cares; she wants to work no matter what, pretty much, and she's doing good stuff).

It's kinda like a computer game, but in real life.. and I like(d) computer games, you know, resource management, all that. So this is.. the thing that made the computer game fun, but with real money. Even more fun?

[arebelspy]

It's kinda like a computer game, but in real life.. and I like(d) computer games, you know, resource management, all that. So this is.. the thing that made the computer game fun, but with real money. Even more fun?

Right?  Like in Plants vs. Zombies you just go mass sunflower and potato bomb to scale up FAST.  Or in most other tower d type game you buy income and just do early spikes instead of towers to roll that up quickly.

Or in an RTS you macro hard.

Or in real life you compound your returns.

/apologies if that didn't make any sense

[HappierAtHome]

It's kinda like a computer game, but in real life.. and I like(d) computer games, you know, resource management, all that. So this is.. the thing that made the computer game fun, but with real money. Even more fun?

Right?  Like in Plants vs. Zombies you just go mass sunflower and potato bomb to scale up FAST.  Or in most other tower d type game you buy income and just do early spikes instead of towers to roll that up quickly.

Or in an RTS you macro hard.

Or in real life you compound your returns.

/apologies if that didn't make any sense

Given that you're almost FIRE, ARS, can you comment on whether it is indeed more fun in real life than in a game?

[HappierAtHome]

Also: I struggle with this too. Sometimes I become wildly ambitious and start seeing myself as the founder of some dynasty of fabulously wealthy (but also super cool and charitable) future generations of HappierAtHomes. Who own and / or run the world. I often joke to the BF that my career goal is 'supreme leader'.

Luckily I'm pretty lazy, and taking over the world / becoming a nicer version of Gina Rinehart seems like a lot of effort. Also, incompatible with FIRE.

[ender]

It's kinda like a computer game, but in real life.. and I like(d) computer games, you know, resource management, all that. So this is.. the thing that made the computer game fun, but with real money. Even more fun?

Prior to reading this I never would have considered real estate as investments.

Now?


.... :)

[arebelspy]

It's kinda like a computer game, but in real life.. and I like(d) computer games, you know, resource management, all that. So this is.. the thing that made the computer game fun, but with real money. Even more fun?

Right?  Like in Plants vs. Zombies you just go mass sunflower and potato bomb to scale up FAST.  Or in most other tower d type game you buy income and just do early spikes instead of towers to roll that up quickly.

Or in an RTS you macro hard.

Or in real life you compound your returns.

/apologies if that didn't make any sense

Given that you're almost FIRE, ARS, can you comment on whether it is indeed more fun in real life than in a game?

I've still got a few years left.

I'm not into the "gamifying" stuff for real life, personally.  But I know that it really works for some people.

http://lifehacker.com/the-best-tools-to-productively-gamify-every-aspect-of-1531404316

I think it's definitely a neat tool to use to motivate you if those sort of rewards and stuff "click" with your brain!  :)

[Thegoblinchief]

Empires need an Emperor.

I don't mind landlording, but unless my area was just full of deals falling into my lap, I'd stop once the passive income exceeded my needs with a margin for expenses.

[anisotropy]

i want more too, more for me less for everyone else.

You're taking this too far.

haha, I WANT EVERYTHING !!!!

[arebelspy]

Empires need an Emperor.

Excellent.  Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen.

Always two there are.

[palebluedot]

[SDREMNGR]

I was thinking the same thing.  The OP's sentiment reminded me of WW.  I think that is the dark side of the force...

But building and creating are different from empire building.  I think the intent and purpose makes all the difference.  If the sole goal of this empire you are building is just to accumulate money, I think you will find that the marginal fun diminishes greatly as you meet and then surpass your initial goals.  If it's $1 million to FIRE, then when you actually reach it, you may find that it's not quite enough for your new desired lifestyle when you reach it, so you may reset it to $2 million, etc.  But if your goal is to create the most delicious ice cream in the world and then also do some good with that money, then I could see it still being fun once you hit your numbers and you still want to contribute to society in some way.

That's what I'm hoping to do.  I'm pretty close to hitting my numbers (I figure I'm right around $900k in assets right now, hopefully will hit the big $1kk by end of this year?) but as I'm approaching the number, I feel somewhat less nervous about my financial future (I know I will never starve or be worried about where to live again) but it doesn't solve any existential questions you have for yourself.  Travelling is also fun and all good and I will continue to do that annually, but it's not an end itself.  Travelling only helps you expand your horizon and learn about yourself, but it's not an end itself for me.  I want to have greater purpose for my life than just reaching some imaginary financial finish line then walking laps around the track in recovery for the rest of my life.

I'm all for new and bigger ideas as your own life becomes bigger and better.