I Sold My Boat - Now Convince Me to Sell My Truck

[daschtick]

Let me begin by saying that I have thoroughly enjoyed this site over the last 6 months, as it has confirmed many thoughts that I have had regarding finances, but do not seem to be discussed on the typical finance and investing sites.

My wife and I are in our mid 40's with a 13 year old daughter, no debt (including a paid off mortgage), a significant net worth, and annually maxed 401ks and IRAs.  We are not looking to retire today, although the achievement of FU money has made working so much more tolerable these days :-)  For us, we continue to work, as we both enjoy spending money on a few nicer things and trips, while we further enhance our financial freedom.  However, we are planning retirement after our daughter attends college.

One of the big lessons I have taken from this site is the desire to live leaner, and reduce monthly payments, especially for stuff not noticed.  Like many, we dumped out $180 face-punch cell phone plan in exchange for actually better service for us through Republic for $60 for 3 smartphones.  The cool part was that although we had to buy 3 new phones for $900, I actually sold our old phones for $750 on craigslist!  I still smile about that one!  I also revised our insurance plans, primarily dropping collision and comprehensive (I mean self insuring collision and comprehensive) on our older cars, and raising deductibles on others - another huge savings.

Next, after 17 years of boat ownership, I began to analyze the cost of boat ownership.  As much as I still enjoyed boating, I came to the conclusion that it was costing $3500/yr, and we only used it maybe 5 times annually.  $700 a boat ride? -  WTF!!   After doing some soul searching, I decided that if I ever wanted to go for a boat ride, I could always rent a brand new boat for an afternoon for $350 - gas included!  Besides ridding me of the expense, I no longer have to maintain it, winterize it, store it, register it, insure it, or worry about depreciation.  In addition to significantly refilling my bank account, this also emptied a huge spot in my garage, so that I can now park everything else inside - win win win!

Now, this is where I am stuck - I currently still have a very un-mustachian 4 vehicles in my garage.  (Cut me some slack - I am learning!)  I daily drive a '13 Ford Focus hatchback, and my wife drives an '05 Acura TSX (which will probably be my daughter's in a few years).  I also have a '00 Toyota MR2 Spyder that I enjoy as a toy,  and an '04 Nissan Titan truck.

The MR2 I bought used 4 years ago well depreciated, and honestly, due to age, I really do not seeing it depreciate much more, as it continues to remain in great shape.  Besides being fun to drive, it is also the most frugal at 35 mpg average tank.  (It had one tank at 32 mpg, but that was after 20+ runs at a local auto-X event!)  It is cheap to insure, as it is listed as a 'low usage pleasure' vehicle, and I self insure collision and comprehensive ;-)  That said, I plan to keep this unnecessary materialistic toy, as it makes only a minor dent in my finances for a significant amount of enjoyment, something I am willing to accept.

The Truck - This is where I need your help

I initially bought the Titan new in '04 to complement my boating hobby.  I drove it daily for several years, however, it currently has only 70k on it, and it looks absolutely perfect.  Now that I have other vehicles to drive and no boat to tow, it often sits unused.  It was paid for years ago, however, I still need to register and insure it annually.  Being worth a bit more than the MR2, I kept full coverage, but jacked the deductibles up to $5k. 

Here is my dilema - Although it no longer heavily used, it is nice having it around for truck duties (home improvement, 4wd winter use, towing, etc.).  Also, since my wife does not drive a manual transmission, it is nice having an alternate vehicle she can drive if I need to work on her TSX.   (Heck, even MMM has an Odyssey for utility use when he's not moving crap on his bike trailer.)  I have the room to store it, and although it costs me $300/yr for registration and insurance combined, I am okay with that (maybe I need a face-punch?).  Since it's 10 years old, it's probably approaching the bottom of its depreciation curve, so I do not calculate further depreciation, although there still may be some.  Besides being handy, I think I have an emotional attachment to it also, which is probably accounts for 50% of the reason why I do not want really want to sell it.  It's sort of cool.  I just like having it around, and I like knowing that I have the ability, even it I just pull it out of the garage to move some brush once in a while, or go to Menards to get some lumber.  I know that if I would get rid of it, I would definitely have to invest in a utility trailer and a hitch.

If I sell it, I immediately refill my bank account once again, but nearly as much as the boat, reduce my annual expense by at least $300, and create an open space in my garage which I do not have an immediate need for.

That said, I need some motivation to actually list it for sale.  Since it is not a huge monthly expense as the cell phones, insurance, and boat were, I am having trouble justifying a sale.  In my mind, since I have no debt, great savings, and no immediate retirement plans, F it, I should just keep it.  Convince me otherwise - Thanks!

[darkadams00]

Three reasons to sell a personal asset:

1) Increase income by realizing opportunity costs
**Investments increased by $X000 sale - $Y00 trailer/hitch purchases

2) Decrease expenses
**$300 annual costs saved

3) Personal reasons, e.g. space/storage, amount of usage, personal desires/wants
**Truck parking would be replaced by trailer parking, so minimal space advantage unless you would park trailer outside but truck was kept in the garage.
**You like the truck, and the $300 it costs annually fits within reasonable amounts of "personal" money where others would spend more on a hobby or travel.

You seem to be financially in good shape, and Mustachianism doesn't focus on the elimination of all discretionary spending. Instead, it focuses on the optimization of spending to meet life goals. If this truck and its related expenses and opportunity costs fit within your life goals more than the alternatives, then keep the truck. If selling the truck would move you closer to your life goals, then that's where you should go. This would be different if it was a $30K 2013 F250 Super Duty, but it's not. It's an older, well depreciated, paid off truck that you've taken care of yourself. Some decisions like this are a bit harder when the carrying costs are lower.

[Forcus]

I don't see a huge incentive to selling it financially. If you are really in to "life optimization" as MMM seems to be it would be easy to justify getting rid of it. I have downgraded from having trucks to having car-towable trailers. In only a handful of instances it has become an issue and I've had to rent or borrow. No big deal. As far as the benefits you cite:

Freeing up space - more space for a workshop? Maybe take some of that money you get from selling it to buy a few new tools? In any case I hate having vehicles sit outside and deteriorate so I'd consider this a positive.

Utilizing other vehicles to a greater extent - A new hatch Focus will easily tow a utility trailer. I don't recall the trailer rating but it was, I believe, over 1k lbs. I get a grin everytime I go to Menards and use a trailer behind one of my cars, instead of a big a$$ truck that others use. And funny enough a trailer setup usually has MORE utility because the average suburbanite truck bed is no longer 8'. Standard utility trailers that can be car towed go up to about 14' and cost around $1250. Harbor Freight has very inexpensive folding trailers. They are not as wide or long as a standard utility trailer, and not built quite as sturdy but the folding part may be worth the drawbacks. And even the heaviest one is under $500.

Winter use - I greatly prefer my FWD Focus with winter tires over a 4x4. The reason for this is a 4x4's only primary advantage is getting going in slick conditions which is largely mitigated by snow tires on a FWD. The secondary advantage for the 4x4 can be stability due to weight and all 4 wheels getting power. A third advantage is usually more ground clearance which admittedly is an issue with my car even on snow tires. However a MAJOR disadvantage with trucks / SUV's is inertia. If you need to stop quick, a light platform with snow tires is going to do it, in most conditions, better and quicker than a 4x4 (you autocross so you know...). The stability is an issue that can be resolved to some extent with neutral alignment and said snow tires (though the Focus with active toe does still make it drive differently that something with a solid rear axle.. but it's more a comfort thing that you get used to). Ground clearance, still an issue, however I plan on running stock springs / shocks with a .75" spacer next winter. Funny enough, more ground clearance than many crossover SUV's. Anyways, I love my pseudo rally car in the snow, and I constantly had to slow way below the car's ability in snow and ice because other drivers were not so comfortable. So maybe another point to take away from the truck. Note, the above applies to Illinois winters, 3-4 inches of snow at a time. I don't think you could get away with the above somewhere where it dumps snow in 12" blocks and roads aren't plowed.

Lastly, it seems like Toyota used truck values are inordinately high. Might be able to free up over $10k easily getting rid of it ($15k?). I'd much rather have that money in something fun or useful (more tools?) or investments than tied up in an asset that sits and isn't really that useful to me.

[Eggman111]

Good job on your optimization so far.

How often do you actually use the truck? If you do the same calculation as for the boat, how much does it cost you per trip? True, $300 per year isn't much, but if you only drive it once per year, then $300 per trip is still pricey.

I think darkadams' reasons are good to consider as well. How much would you get for the truck? The interest income could mean that the opportunity cost of having the truck is much higher than $300 per year.

Forcus, I believe the Titan is a Nissan, but it probably still has good value.

[Daley]

You can rent a van or a pickup from U-Haul in-town for $20/day plus tax and gas.

Every day you sit on that pickup, even if you don't use it, it loses both value and costs you money and space.

You yourself said you don't need constant access to a pickup anymore because you sold the boat and you have plenty of vehicles already.

It's simple math with basic needs. Run the cost of a U-Haul for all the times you would actually need a truck over the next few years, with the interest earned off of selling the truck now. Compare it to the cost of keeping, maintaining and the depreciation of a vehicle that doesn't actually get used.

[okashira]

INB4 CarSafetyGuy

IIRC, the 04 Titan has one of the worst safety records of any vehicle on the road. I'll see if I can find the study where I learned that.

You don't need 4x4 for snow, you need snow tires.

[mak1277]

If selling the truck would move you closer to your life goals, then that's where you should go.

This says it all for me.  When I buy a car, I immediately depreciate it to zero on my "personal balance sheet".  It's an expense, not an asset (unless it's a bentley or vette, which I clearly don't have).  So further depreciation isn't something that I put too much emphasis on.  Simply from reading your post, I see no compelling reason to sell it.

[okashira]

If selling the truck would move you closer to your life goals, then that's where you should go.

This says it all for me.  When I buy a car, I immediately depreciate it to zero on my "personal balance sheet".  It's an expense, not an asset (unless it's a bentley or vette, which I clearly don't have).  So further depreciation isn't something that I put too much emphasis on.  Simply from reading your post, I see no compelling reason to sell it.

Once you have made the decision to keep a car forever, depreciating it to zero on your balance sheet makes sense. When one is considering selling one and does not need it, it does not.

[Eric]

You essentially have a toy car and a toy truck.  Plus another car.  You're one person.  You have 3 vehicles.  Holy shit man, that's ridiculous!

How's that?

[Tetsuya Hondo]

According to Kelly Blue Book, a moderately equipped 4WD 04 Titan in good condition with 70k on it is worth $13k. What could you do with that cash? Wisely invested, how much can it make for you?

[okashira]

According to Kelly Blue Book, a moderately equipped 4WD 04 Titan in good condition with 70k on it is worth $13k. What could you do with that cash? Wisely invested, how much can it make for you?

13k is an entire year's living expenses for me.

In a 3rd world country, it could help a entire poor, struggling family live in luxury for a year.

Instead, it sits in your garage collecting dust.

[surfhb]

If you are FI at this point in your life and all your vehicles offer use and enjoyment then keep them.    You have already achieved success so fuck it!    It all depends on how big your stash is and if you are comfy with it

For me it's a waste.   I could invest that money, send some brilliant kid to college who wouldn't normally have the means and have a nice stash left over for me to take several  trips around the world.    ;)

[daschtick]

Great discussion!  I am actually surprised by the number of folks that say I should keep it.

However, from a pure mathematical standpoint, I agree with many of the posts here that indicate that I should sell it.  To go one step further, I have asked myself the following questions - If I did not currently have a truck, and I saw this one sitting on the side of the road listed for sale, would I buy it?  Of course not!  What would I need a fourth vehicle for? :-)

I also agree with the comments posted by Forcus regarding the use of snow tires on my daily driver versus using the truck in heavy snow.  I have run 4 Blizzaks on my wife's car during winters for the last 15 years, and I agree that it many ways, it outperforms my truck all conditions except for the deepest snow.  Even then, we have never been permanently stuck in her car.

However, my favorite comment so far came from Erik :-)

You essentially have a toy car and a toy truck.  Plus another car.  You're one person.  You have 3 vehicles.  Holy shit man, that's ridiculous!

How's that?

...with honorable mention to okashira

According to Kelly Blue Book, a moderately equipped 4WD 04 Titan in good condition with 70k on it is worth $13k. What could you do with that cash? Wisely invested, how much can it make for you?

13k is an entire year's living expenses for me.

In a 3rd world country, it could help a entire poor, struggling family live in luxury for a year.

Instead, it sits in your garage collecting dust.

I think my plan ultimately be similar as I did for my boat.  Since I really don't care if I sell it or not, I will take several high quality photos of the truck, type up a thorough description highlighting why I feel it is a good value, then list it for a higher than average price.  This method worked extremely well for my boat (as I really didn't want to sell that either), and I did very well with the sale.  What I have found is that many people are willing to pay more for a one owner accident-free vehicle with ALL records, where they can 'interview' the seller as part of the vehicle inspection, which I am perfectly fine with, as I am proud of how I maintain my vehicles.

The advantage of not really caring if it sells cannot be underestimated (FU money for the win!).

Thanks for all of the comments, as I feel this gives me the push I need.

[Frugal Father]

I think my plan ultimately be similar as I did for my boat.  Since I really don't care if I sell it or not, I will take several high quality photos of the truck, type up a thorough description highlighting why I feel it is a good value, then list it for a higher than average price.  This method worked extremely well for my boat (as I really didn't want to sell that either), and I did very well with the sale.  What I have found is that many people are willing to pay more for a one owner accident-free vehicle with ALL records, where they can 'interview' the seller as part of the vehicle inspection, which I am perfectly fine with, as I am proud of how I maintain my vehicles.

The advantage of not really caring if it sells cannot be underestimated (FU money for the win!).

Thanks for all of the comments, as I feel this gives me the push I need.

That sounds like an awesome plan. Not being in a rush always has its advantages, both in buying and selling. Let us know how things turn out!

[EricL]

From the sounds of it now that you no longer have a boat you don't need this truck.  Maybe you'll need something to haul stuff around but really most things can be hauled in a normal car (though a nice drop cloth or tarp can be handy to have).   Like others here, I recommend you flog the truck.  Find a nice cheap truck rental place, get their rental prices and take a chunk of the cheddar from the sale and add it to a special fund to rent a truck when one is really necessary.  Invest the rest and divert what you'd pay in insurance and gas to the fund.  When the truck rental fund starts getting too fat carve a prudent chunk out and invest that.  Rinse, repeat.  Better yet, find a kindly friend or neighbor who'd loan you their truck for those special jobs in return for gas, a six pack, or even left over accessories that didn't get flogged with the truck (straps, tarps, jumper cables, etc.). 

It seems some posters are a little harsh with their criticism but don't sweat it.  They're right that keeping the truck is a waste.  It's easy to say that since they're not gazing over the pipe through the crack smoke of modern consumerism.  But YOU'LL only really be sold on why they say that when the money invested from the sale doubles in the next 6-10 years - and then threatens to triple.  Good luck!

[Hedge_87]

Better yet, find a kindly friend or neighbor who'd loan you their truck for those special jobs in return for gas, a six pack

This is how I keep my fridge stocked with beer lol. Sure I can help you haul that for a small fee :).

[daschtick]

9/23 UPDATE - I Sold My Truck!

So, after the realization that I was not ever using my truck anymore, I decided to list it for sale.  After a couple of weeks on CL, yesterday I had a nice gentleman literally drive off into the sunset with my beautiful 2004 Nissan Titan.



It looked fantastic, and I can't deny that I will miss it a bit, but the satisfaction of selling my 10 year old truck, and still returning 50% of the original new purchase price, has been amazing!  Besides bolstering my account, I took great pleasure in cancelling my insurance, and coming to the realization that now my worst fuel economy will be 28 mpg.

I think that many of my friends and coworkers think that either I have lost my mind by first selling my boat, and now my truck, or that I am strapped for cash (quite the contrary), but there are definitely a select few who 'get it'.  About 6 months ago, I started to track my monthly spend and net worth on a monthly basis.  As sick as this sounds - this sort has become my new hobby.  My lifestyle adjustments have been significantly helping these values, yet I feel that I have more available cash in my pocket than ever.  I share my 'sickness' with no one but my wife (who is also on board with early retirement, but is still somewhat afflicted with consumerism, however, she has come around a lot!).  Yet even with some sloppy spending (mostly eating out), we are making great progress, and I definitely see the light at the end of the tunnel.  Our job stresses have nearly all but vanished, because now we don't have any real fear of losing them, which has generally put both of us in much better moods when we are away from work.

This has definitely been an eye opening experience for me, and I greatly appreciate all that I have learned from this site, as I now look forward to an early release from mandatory work in a few years instead of having to work many extra years to pay for crap that I don't need!  The funny part is that it all seems so obvious now!

[pichirino]

Haven't seen many mustachians who bark ,also show the bite ,but ya showed some bite here.

My bad,thought ya were FI,still..Admired :)


Editted for misunderstanding.

[Yonco]

I was in the same boat( no pun intended) as you.  I purchased a 5x8 trailer to haul the dirt bikes and yard materials. Now I just have a trailer sitting months at a time instead of a truck. The good part is low registration cost, no insurance and more money in my pocket.  We now rent a boat when we are out on our vacations and it's still just as fun.