Post by: PFHC on August 30, 2015, 12:18:45 AM
2012 2013 2014 2015 (to date)
Trips 98 128 135 95
Trips/Wk 1.88 2.46 2.60 2.84
Avg cost/trip $66.26 $98.20 $125.94 $105.58
Grocery cost/wk $124.87 $241.72 $326.95 $300.04
Driving cost/wk $6.22 $8.12 $8.57 $9.38
True cost/week $131.09 $249.84 $335.51 $309.42
Yearly cost $6,493.03 $12,569.41 $17,001.24 $10,030.02
Yearly driving cost $323.40 $422.40 $445.50 $313.50
True Yearly cost $6,816.43 $12,991.81 $17,446.74 $10,343.52
It is a lot, and we all want to get better. That said, we are health nuts and plan to stay that way as we are all have no issues with weight or other health problems. We think of our way of eating as our insurance plan. For instance, we spend less than $50/yr at the doctor. So, on to the problem:
Here's what we don't eat.
- - Most meat (only organic, grassfed, ethically raised meat and wild caught fish -- all of which are rarely eaten)
- Wheat (all of us are glutards)
- Non-organic produce in the dirty dozen
- Milk, yogurt, or kefir that is not grassfed
- Cheese
- Processed, pre-made, packaged food of any kind
What we've done so far to improve our grocery spending is to:
- Reduce our trips to 1/wk. Saves $350/yr on fuel.
- Start shopping at Sam's. We're estimating a 30%-50% savings on certain items (greens, frozen fruit, snacks, etc.). Should amount to a $300 savings/month.
- Doing a prep day each week where we chop veggies and make bulk rice/quinoa a head of time (basmati rice, $19 for 25 lbs).
So, we're aiming for a 10% reduction in food costs for the first 6 months of 2016, and over all to eventually get to somewhere close to $1000/month in 2015 dollars. I'm optimistic we can get there. That said, we need your help.
All you healthy eaters, how do you do it on a budget? Looking for any pointers from meal planning, to recipes, to secret healthy nutrient and calorie dense foods, etc.
Food is our one thing we spend exorbitantly on. Everything else, we do pretty darn well at.
Thanks in advance!
Post by: zephyr911 on August 30, 2015, 01:21:58 AM
Other things I do, that may or may not work:
Shop often - more chances to spot deals, and stay head on stock.
Adjust ratios - a little more rice, a little less meat, etc. Since your list includes some high-cost items, this could make a difference. Think third-world... enough meat for flavor, on top of enough greens for nutrition, on top of cheap calories and proteins.
Make more things from scratch.
Other than that... I'd just look at total expenditures and reduce consumption of anything whose nutritional value doesn't justify the price. With a five-figure total (holy shit) there must be a category that sticks out.
Post by: PFHC on August 30, 2015, 01:38:16 AM
Other than that... I'd just look at total expenditures and reduce consumption of anything whose nutritional value doesn't justify the price. With a five-figure total (holy shit) there must be a category that sticks out.
Just going to have to give everything the ol' eyeball for nutrient density. Chunk anything that doesn't fit the bill out.
Ya, five figures. Been trying to figure it out for years. My brother has 9 kids and they get in under $800/mo. They eat a ton of unhealthy crap, so it's easier that way. Just blows my mind that we spend more on food than many do on housing.
Post by: 1967mama on August 30, 2015, 01:56:41 AM
I have been known to freeze hundreds of pounds of organic berries from the farm to get us through the winter ;-) I buy and freeze 50 organic chickens a year (also a large family, like your brother) and a side or two of grass-fed, ethically raised beef.
I'm looking forward to hearing tips from others as well!
Post by: pbkmaine on August 30, 2015, 03:16:19 AM
Post by: PFHC on August 30, 2015, 03:53:14 AM
A typical shopping list would help bring suggestions.
pbkmaine... not sure if your name indicates you're a Mainer. Hope so, as I am and some advice from a fellow Mainer would certainly help.
OK. We have three trips. Weekly trip to Hannaford's and a local market specializing in local/organic stuff. We used spend around $300 between the two trips. Then every three weeks, we go to Sam's and get bulk items. Depending on what we have to get, that runs between $150 - $250.
I am a lot of miles from home on a ship and I don't have access to a recent slip. My wife plans to do a small trip Monday, then go slightly bigger Wednesday or Thursday. We just implemented the once a week schedule (with the one day being W/Th) and we are out of fresh fruit and veggies, thus the small trip Monday.
So, if you can wait until Thursday night, I can get you our shopping list exactly. Otherwise it will just be a crappy guess.
Post by: Monkey Uncle on August 30, 2015, 04:07:11 AM
Maybe you're already doing this, but are you getting your meat direct from a farm? And are you buying up/growing and freezing/drying/canning the summer's bounty of fruits and vegetables, which can also be bought more cheaply directly from our friendly farmers?
I have been known to freeze hundreds of pounds of organic berries from the farm to get us through the winter ;-) I buy and freeze 50 organic chickens a year (also a large family, like your brother) and a side or two of grass-fed, ethically raised beef.
I'm looking forward to hearing tips from others as well!
Compare prices to be sure - local farmers are not necessarily less expensive. In my area, it costs considerably more to buy direct from the local farmer vs. the grocery store. We do it anyway, because the food is much higher quality.
Post by: alsoknownasDean on August 30, 2015, 05:26:05 AM
Maybe do the maths on organic and decide if it's worth it. It might be if it's only 10-20% more, but not if it's double-triple the cost.
Have you considered growing your own fruit and veg?
Are you buying some excessively overpriced items? I remember being in a grocery store a few months ago and seeing 'paleo muesli' for $20 for a ~500g bag. Honestly I thought if someone's prepared to spend that much on a bag of muesli because it's got 'paleo' or whatever the latest dietary fashion is written on it, then I've got a bridge to sell them. :)
Post by: lakemom on August 30, 2015, 05:37:34 AM
Post by: MsPeacock on August 30, 2015, 05:48:21 AM
Post by: forummm on August 30, 2015, 07:11:34 AM
Post by: pbkmaine on August 30, 2015, 07:38:20 AM
A typical shopping list would help bring suggestions.
pbkmaine... not sure if your name indicates you're a Mainer. Hope so, as I am and some advice from a fellow Mainer would certainly help.
I used to live in Maine, so I know the stores. Hannaford's and Shaw's were my chief haunts. Is there a Market Basket near you? The blog Frugalwoods (they are in Cambridge, Mass) uses Market Basket for their big shop each week.
Post by: pbkmaine on August 30, 2015, 07:39:19 AM
Post by: needmyfi on August 30, 2015, 08:10:18 AM
Post by: benjenn on August 30, 2015, 08:42:08 AM
One of the things I did was to go through my pantry, fridge and freezer and figure out what I could make using what we already had and from that, start a menu list for the week. We always took leftovers for our lunches so that was easy. Then, after having the menu list (I'd always put 8 meals on the list so I could pick and choose each night what to make and feel like I had options), I'd go through my recipes to figure out exactly what I needed and only buy those ingredients.
This seemed to really cut down on the buying... I didn't buy things that I thought we'd eventually use or that looked good at the time... I only buy the items that I know I'll need and use for the meals I'm making that week. Plus the fruits and veggies needed for our smoothies.
The grocery bills dropped considerably at first since we had so much food already in the house that I had to try to use up. Now we've got considerably more space in our pantry and the weekly grocery bills are still way less than they used to be just because I'm mindful.
Hope that helps!
Post by: Indio on August 30, 2015, 08:52:34 AM
If you think you might want to go the growing food route, it would be worth a trip to see Eliot Coleman's 4 Season farm in Blue Hill. He has a great setup with sliding hoop houses that produce a lot of fresh greens in Winter. ME soil is much richer than mine in CT and even though the growing season is shorter, production would require less inputs.
Post by: seemsright on August 30, 2015, 08:56:01 AM
The last time I was at the store I wanted to get some Quinoa from the bulk section...it was $5.69 a pound!!!! That is CRAZY! So I grabbed some millet (which has a similar nutritional profile) for $.69 a pound...saved me a huge amount of money. And my little does not care and will eat it just fine. (she is 5) Just tell her it is 'fancy' rice and she is all over it.
I also have a seasonal CSA that for 17 weeks the guy brings me a box of fruits and veggies. It ends up being $27 a week. But it also comes with 3 flats of berries and 50# of tomatoes. Buy the end of the season my freezer is full of organic local fruits and veggies to use all winter. This weeks haul I am making salsa and corn chowder and tomato basil soup. I do not have to go to the store during the height of the season.
Post by: big_slacker on August 30, 2015, 09:08:41 AM
Here is what helped:
Look at where the 'bleeding' occurs. Hint, it's organic fruits and veggies. If you're like me you'll have a big problem here because you know that's the good stuff where health happens. I'm with you, but we had a tendency to have a set shopping list and get mostly the same stuff every week regardless of price. Good for consistent healthy eating, bad for the wallet.
No sacred cows. Set a ballpark target for each category. When you've got $50 for fruits and $50 for veggies for the week and you're looking at $3/lb apple display or a $4 bell pepper (why are those F'ers so expensive??) you might opt out and go for something of great volume that you'll get more than one meal out of.
On volume, be looking for a sale and stock up. Tomatoes on sale? Get 'em! Go crazy. Make pasta sauce, soups and freeze. Apples, eat a bunch that week, make some compotes, etc. Now when there is nothing but $3/lb apples garnish oatmeal with that instead of buying fresh.
Frozen fruits/veggies are another option. If you do a lot of greens shakes you can grab stuff on sale, pre-pack smoothie servings and you're good to go for a few weeks or longer.
And some weeks you just might not buy the stuff. You aren't gonna die if you don't have apples one week. You're not even gonna be less healthy if you have to eat more potatoes or rice n' beans. Since cutting my budget in this way my bloodwork and body comp hasn't changed a bit. :)
Post by: MrMoneyMaxwell on August 30, 2015, 09:51:33 AM
Bulk chicken, eggs, rice, some things like onions, potatoes and spinach come from Cost-co. Every now and then they will have wild caught fish or grass fed beef, bison, etc. and I will occasionally buy some of that.
We started getting our weeks worth of veggies for $10 at the local farmers market, supplementing what they don't have (bananas, etc) from whichever grocery store has the best deal going on (the 4 in our area send out a circular with the sales for the week).
Our monthly budget is ~$350. We're both very active, so sometimes we'll need to buy bulk snacks for our hikes (nuts, cliff bars, stuff like that), so occasionally this will go up depending on the weather.
Also, my fiance is celiac so I can't remember the last time I had bread.
If you're like me, you aren't really eating anything that comes pre-made and out of a box. So this tends to be slightly more expensive, but not as much as most people think it is.
Post by: Bracken_Joy on August 30, 2015, 10:45:57 AM
Fruit and spendy veggies. Go for cabbage and broccoli over asparagus and artichokes.
Pre-made sauces and dressings. Ketchup, BBQ sauce, dressings are all VERY expensive to get well made- unless you make your own.
Not being flexible with meat. Right now, pork is far cheaper than beef. Chicken thighs are getting popular out here so they've spiked in price. Go against the trends and buy what's cheap at the time.
Post by: ender on August 30, 2015, 10:49:03 AM
You might realize that a few items/categories are costing you the bulk of your expenses.
My wife and I spend about $300 a month and eat very luxuriously - fresh produce constantly, many meals are meat based, etc.
Post by: tallen on August 30, 2015, 11:04:07 AM
Edit-grammer
Post by: Jakejake on August 30, 2015, 11:13:23 AM
Post by: SilveradoBojangles on August 30, 2015, 12:46:02 PM
- Are you eating beans? As previously mentioned, we eat a lot of lentils/beans, which we buy in bulk. These take the form of bean sprout salads, indian curries, soups, burritos, chilis, stews, white beans and kale, etc. They are versatile, cheap, filling, and have protein.
- Are you eating seasonal vegetables, or do you pick up the same standards week after week? For example, now that it's summer, we are mainly eating tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers, eggplants, green beans, and melons. I kind of miss leafy greens, but I know they'll be back before we know it, and come winter that and root vegetables is all we'll eat. But it is much cheaper to eat what is in season.
- Do you throw food out? If things are going bad before you get to them, if you toss old leftovers, etc., you are throwing away money. We waste almost no food. Like, we threw out a moldy peach a couple of weeks ago, and I still remember it because that is how rare it is for us to not eat everything we buy.
- Do you plan meals in advance? This is a big part of not wasting food and keeping your costs and number of trips to the grocery store down. Also, going in with a list makes it easier to stick to a budget.
- Do you track your spending in real time? I would track our spending at the end of each month, and for a while we were routinely going over our food budget. Since we started using YNAB, which has an excellent phone app, it has been much easier to see where we are in relation to our food budget each time we go shopping.
- Do you have a Trader Joe's near you? They have the best prices on nuts that I've found.
You mentioned that you were looking for help on meal planning and recipes. If you want to see an example of a week of meals for us, or want any recipes, I'm happy to share. But these are just some issues that may be contributing to your high grocery costs.
Post by: mohawkbrah on August 30, 2015, 02:14:54 PM
Post by: Jakejake on August 30, 2015, 02:56:08 PM
Also - what are the "snacks" from Sams exactly?
Post by: Bajadoc on August 30, 2015, 03:10:20 PM
Post by: Cassie on August 30, 2015, 03:33:28 PM
Post by: herbgeek on August 30, 2015, 05:26:32 PM
I second the recommendation for eating seaonally. Much much cheaper. If you have access to sun, even lettuce and herbs in pots are a huge money saver.
Post by: 2ndTimer on August 30, 2015, 05:38:38 PM
Post by: PFHC on August 30, 2015, 07:06:21 PM
Can you give a run down of what is on your typical shopping list and weekly menu plan? This may help,posters give you some more specific ideas rather than general advice like buy and cook in bulk.
Here is the list from Sam's when we last went (14 Aug):
- Basmati rice 1 $19.98 - (25 lbs)
- Vinegar 1 $3.98 2 gallons
- Black pepper 1 $8.48 - enough for a year
- Chia Seeds 1 $10.98 32 oz. Enough for several months.
- Quinoa 1 $8.78 32 oz. Will last at least a month.
- OG Pasta Sauce 2 $5.98 24 oz jars
- OG EVOO 1 $11.98 1.5 L. Will last us several months.
- OG Coconut oil (54 oz) 1 $16.98 Several months worth.
- OG frozen Island mix 1 $10.94 3 lbs. At least a months worth.
- OG frozen berry mix 1 $9.38 3 lbs. Same as above.
- OG frozen cherries 1 $10.48 3 lbs. Ditto.
- OG mini carrots 1 $3.98 5lbs. Lasted 6 days.
- OG kale greens mix 1 $3.98 - 16 oz. Lasted 4 days.
- OG spring greens mix 1 $4.47 16 oz. lasted 6 days.
- McCann's Oatmeal 1 $8.98 2 - 28 oz cans. Have since found a much better deal on Amazon.
- Pistachios 1 $15.98 3 lbs. A months worth.
- Tortilla Chips 1 $5.98 Good sized bag. A waste as it lasted two days.
- Maple syrup 1 $10.78 32 oz. This is a great deal and will last us months.
- Lemons 1 $6.98 3 lbs. Enough for a couple weeks.
- Clementines 1 $8.98 3 lbs. Lasted ten days.
- Almonds 1 $16.88 3 lbs. A months worth.
For a total of $210.91
**Edited to add item size and duraction or anticipated duration and to remove non-food items.**
Post by: PFHC on August 30, 2015, 07:10:15 PM
Maybe you're already doing this, but are you getting your meat direct from a farm? And are you buying up/growing and freezing/drying/canning the summer's bounty of fruits and vegetables, which can also be bought more cheaply directly from our friendly farmers?
I have been known to freeze hundreds of pounds of organic berries from the farm to get us through the winter ;-) I buy and freeze 50 organic chickens a year (also a large family, like your brother) and a side or two of grass-fed, ethically raised beef.
I'm looking forward to hearing tips from others as well!
Compare prices to be sure - local farmers are not necessarily less expensive. In my area, it costs considerably more to buy direct from the local farmer vs. the grocery store. We do it anyway, because the food is much higher quality.
This is exactly the issue we have run into. The prices at our farmer's markets, which are extremely popular in Maine, are equivalent or higher than the stores. $10 will get you a loaf of bread or a couple bundles of greens. No way in hell you can get a weeks worth of groceries like a poster suggested here.
Post by: PFHC on August 30, 2015, 07:20:50 PM
Maybe do the maths on organic and decide if it's worth it. It might be if it's only 10-20% more, but not if it's double-triple the cost.
Organic is certianly more expensive in our area, but not triple. Depending on the produce, could be double. We tend to avoid those items.
Have you considered growing your own fruit and veg?
YES! We turned our entire yard into an organic garden the last two summers. Ended up spending about $500/yr and got very little produce. My yard is on a north facing slope and does not get good sun. :( Tried our damnedest, but could not make it productive. Did grow a badass 6' braid of garlic and 80 lbs of sweet potatoes!
Are you buying some excessively overpriced items? I remember being in a grocery store a few months ago and seeing 'paleo muesli' for $20 for a ~500g bag. Honestly I thought if someone's prepared to spend that much on a bag of muesli because it's got 'paleo' or whatever the latest dietary fashion is written on it, then I've got a bridge to sell them. :)
No. No gimmicky shit. No packages goods, period. Just food in it's purest form, i.e. minimal processing.
Post by: Jakejake on August 30, 2015, 07:40:54 PM
Post by: 1967mama on August 30, 2015, 07:42:37 PM
Post by: Faraday on August 30, 2015, 08:03:37 PM
First, congrats that you even KNOW what you are spending. Most people can't track. Second, congrats again that you want to trim those costs. I'm with you 100% on regarding healthy eating as a kind of insurance policy. Our sons grew up this way and even as adults, those habits persist. THey are both 6ft 3 inch monsters with low body fat and textbook physiques. Believe me, what you are doing will pay off handsome dividends for everyone in the house.
All I've got to add in the way of advice, many have already said:
+1 to the idea of getting a freezer and buying in bulk - whether it's meat, vegs, seasonals, whatever. This will be my own next step, but when I do, I'm planning to get one of those freezers that run off DC and can be powered by a solar panel. I live in the southeast US and a bad hurricane can knock out power for a week or more. I don't want to be forced to use up an entire freezer of food to keep it from spoiling.
I don't know if you guys have Aldi up there, but I find certain items from Aldi to be good bargains and good quality. I buy almond milk, frozen vegs and seafood there if it's on sale.
One other comment that may-or-may-not be applicable: if you have other places you can cut expenses to a greater magnitude, it might be better to focus on that rather than on food. I got pretty worried about my household's grocery budget (I've blabbed in several threads about it and started one of my own about it) but then I realized there were other places I could change how we live and it didn't matter one bit and didn't diminish our living standard one bit.
Examples of what I mean here are: getting rid of cell phone contracts, getting rid of pay tv, fixing my own vehicles, riding the bike more, hacking my power bill, paying off all debt (besides mortgage) and jacking up my pre-tax 401k contributions.
Example of what I mean about jacking up the 401k:
http://www.madfientist.com/millionaire-educator-interview/
madFI and the millionaire educators essentially taught me that if I'm not sheltering enough income via pre-tax deduction because I can't AFFORD to or don't have the cash flow to do so, I've turned my fed and state income taxes into a kind of CONSUMPTION TAX and I'm being a consuma sucka.
Good luck man. Total props to you and how you make your living! Rock on man!
Post by: MsPeacock on August 30, 2015, 08:11:30 PM
So, this is everything you eat for a couple weeks (like nothing else that you pick-up at other stores)? I ask, as someone who doesn't like much fruit - but I am not really seeing the makings of many meals here.
Do you have a weekly meal/menu plan?
Post by: kite on August 30, 2015, 08:48:52 PM
Organic is a luxury, and not necessary for health. It doesn't mean what marketers have led you to believe. Don't take my word for it. Read what Joe Schwarcz has to say on the matter: http://www.artsandopinion.com/2005_v4_n3/schwarcz-3.htm
Next is that the SNAP challenge or Living Below the Line is great for slashing the food bill. Best writing on how to do this is by someone who lived it because she had no other choice, not a posturing celebrity or politician. Google "A Girl Called Jack" and see how to do it deliciously. Set a fixed budget for the four of you for the coming week and don't go above it. Next weekly trip, take only $80 in cash. Our household was 2, so we could spend half that and make do with what is lying around in the pantry.
We've done because we had no other choice (we had a sudden shift to zero income when the market had tanked), too and these are some of the things we had to learn:
Don't buy snacks. Don't buy something because it's healthy, on sale, in bulk or whatever other rationalizations you've used to tip something in the cart. Only buy that which is part of the meals you have planned. You are planning meals right? Oatmeal, split pea soup, homemade bread are filling and cheap. Fruits and vegetables are not equal. Veggies must be eaten daily. Fruit is dessert, and you don't need dessert at every meal or even every day. Beef is the most expensive protein we eat, so it's a rare to have and served as a condiment. Whole chicken is cheaper than boneless skinless parts. Roast whole birds, eat over the course of the week. Herbs make everything better, are expensive to buy yet easy to grow. In addition to the above thoughts on fruit/desser, we used to have to much sugar in out diets. Cut it & save a bundle.
Post by: Bendigirl on August 30, 2015, 08:52:16 PM
The only thing I noticed was a lot of nuts for a few weeks! Hubby and I eat almonds every day but it takes us a month, at least, to get through a costco bag.
How great are you to be nourishing your kids so well. Love that commitment!
You would roll over and die if you were to buy the same items here in Canada.....it is so much more expensive here.
We eat like you, only grain free also....cannot even say how much our lives have improved!
Post by: alsoknownasDean on August 30, 2015, 08:53:10 PM
There's still some expensive trendy foods there (quinoa, chia seeds, kale, coconut oil, etc).Maybe do the maths on organic and decide if it's worth it. It might be if it's only 10-20% more, but not if it's double-triple the cost.
Organic is certianly more expensive in our area, but not triple. Depending on the produce, could be double. We tend to avoid those items.Have you considered growing your own fruit and veg?
YES! We turned our entire yard into an organic garden the last two summers. Ended up spending about $500/yr and got very little produce. My yard is on a north facing slope and does not get good sun. :( Tried our damnedest, but could not make it productive. Did grow a badass 6' braid of garlic and 80 lbs of sweet potatoes!Are you buying some excessively overpriced items? I remember being in a grocery store a few months ago and seeing 'paleo muesli' for $20 for a ~500g bag. Honestly I thought if someone's prepared to spend that much on a bag of muesli because it's got 'paleo' or whatever the latest dietary fashion is written on it, then I've got a bridge to sell them. :)
No. No gimmicky shit. No packages goods, period. Just food in it's purest form, i.e. minimal processing.
Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk
Post by: kimmarg on August 30, 2015, 09:05:18 PM
A typical shopping list would help bring suggestions.
pbkmaine... not sure if your name indicates you're a Mainer. Hope so, as I am and some advice from a fellow Mainer would certainly help.
OK. We have three trips. Weekly trip to Hannaford's and a local market specializing in local/organic stuff. We used spend around $300 between the two trips. Then every three weeks, we go to Sam's and get bulk items. Depending on what we have to get, that runs between $150 - $250.
Mainer here! Hannaford is definitely the best of the main grocery stores. Loss leaders are cheaper at Shaws but everything else is much more expensive. Trader Joes is cheapest for peanut butter and coffee though. I get my produce and fancy farm raised meat through a CSA at Wolf Pine Farm in Alfred (they deliver all over southern Maine) ww.wolfpine farm.com $500/6 months of yummy organic veggies.
If you shop Whole Foods, know your prices! For example, tofu is actually cheaper at Hannaford. For veggies there is also the Crown of Maine organic cooperative which delivers. Portland food coop was ordering from them before they got all fancy and built a store. I never joined as that coop model didn't work for me but coops are nice in general.
Also PYO for berries. $2.49/lb organic blueberries in Cornish, also picked strawberries. Goss Berry Farm in Poland has raspberries although don't think they are organic. Tons of apples in fall.
Post by: backyardfeast on August 30, 2015, 09:09:16 PM
For instance, you've got a LOT of food on that list. We do a shop like that every 6 weeks or so. Then each week, we are at the grocery store only for the very few extra things we would need to flesh out the specific meals we're going to eat. In other words, now that you've stocked up, make a meal plan for the specific meals you're going to make out of those ingredients (and other things in your pantry and freezer). Don't fall into the trap of saying, ok, I've got quinoa and rice, but I feel like potatoes, so off I go to the grocery store, and while I'm there I'll just pick up...x,y,z. Look at the contents of your shelves, decide how you're going to use those ingredients, make a small list of other things you will need to complete those recipes, and then go and do one more shop this week for just those things on the list. Stay out of the grocery store the rest of the week! If you run out of something, substitute! Make it a challenge!
Lots of us fall into the trap of liking to have lots of food on hand, and then just deciding each day what we feel like eating. It's all yummy and healthy, so it's all good, right?! But it doesn't make efficient use of our money or of the food.
It can also be eye opening to think about the costs of the meals that you have in regular rotation. In our case, there was a big difference between the cost of eggs, potatoes, and veggies, or rice and beans and veggies, or chicken and quinoa and veggies. I realized that we could (as someone else here already said) eat variations of the cheaper ones more often and just that would make a difference to how much we spent. We did the same costing with snacks--those nuts were costing a fortune! We stopped eating them by the big handful, and I started making (way cheaper) muffins instead. More hard-boiled eggs, less bacon, etc. Looking around for the best price on frozen berries is one thing, but deciding to buy the cheapest organic frozen fruit, or just the cheapest local fruit (apples!) instead will make a difference too.
Post by: Bendigirl on August 30, 2015, 09:09:37 PM
http://chocolatecoveredkatie.com/2013/06/30/baked-beans-recipe-healthy-homemade/
These are good....next time I make these I will use maple syrup instead of the coconut sugar I used...
http://chocolatecoveredkatie.com/2012/10/26/super-healthy-lentil-sloppy-joes/
I add a bit of garum masala to this to give it a curry taste and serve it over cauliflower rice and I do add a pile of caramelized onions.
http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/emeril-lagasse/vegetarian-chili-recipe.html
We keep individual servings of this in the freezer for lunches, freezes great
http://paleomg.com/paleo-curried-twice-baked-sweet-potatoes/
Love these....and you can really stuff anything into a sweet potato.
http://paleomg.com/almost-5-ingredient-pizza-spaghetti-pie/
How could I have forgotten this! It is so good, and adding cheese is really good...even though I saw you don't eat it.
Post by: Tyson on August 30, 2015, 09:25:48 PM
Post by: kimmarg on August 30, 2015, 09:27:07 PM
Frozen berries - Pick your own seasonallyCan you give a run down of what is on your typical shopping list and weekly menu plan? This may help,posters give you some more specific ideas rather than general advice like buy and cook in bulk.
Here is the list from Sam's when we last went (14 Aug):
Basmati rice (25 lbs) 1 $19.98
POM toilet paper 1 $19.98
Vinegar (1 box = 2 gallons) 1 $3.98
Black pepper 1 $8.48
Chia Seeds 1 $10.98
Quinoa 1 $8.78
OG Pasta Sauce (2 pk) 2 $5.98
OG EVOO 1 $11.98
42 G contractor bags 1 $12.48
13 G trash bags 1 $11.96
OG Coconut oil (54 oz) 1 $16.98
OG frozen Island mix 1 $10.94
OG frozen berry mix 1 $9.38
OG forzen cherries 1 $10.48
OG mini carrots 1 $3.98
OG kale greens mix 1 $3.98
OG spring greens mix 1 $4.47
McCann's Oatmeal (2 cans) 1 $8.98
Pistachios 1 $15.98
Tortilla Chips 1 $5.98
Maple syrup 1 $10.78
Lemons (3 lbs) 1 $6.98
Clementines 1 $8.98
Almonds 1 $16.88
For a total of $255.33
This is enough bulk food to last several weeks, toilet paper and garbage bags to last several months, and fresh produce for about 1.5 weeks.
My wife is going shopping tomorrow. I will post the results then.
kale - garden. Try the red Russian variety. Grows well in cold conditions
Oatmeal - switch to bulk bin at whole foods or order from Amazon
Maple Syrup - you have no maple trees?? You know organic maple syrup is a scam, right? There is no legal thing you can do to maple trees to make it not organic. Virtually all syrup is organic, just local places don't pay the fee to get the organic sticker.
Post by: PFHC on August 30, 2015, 09:47:06 PM
Have you internet sourced your dried goods/packaged goods? I often see that folks can buy nuts/seeds/dried beans substantially cheaper online than locally. This might be a good supplement to the Sam's run.
Great idea! We'll look into it.
Post by: PFHC on August 30, 2015, 09:51:28 PM
Hope that helps!
Yes it does! Thanks! Grocery list pending tomorrow and Thursday.
Post by: mm1970 on August 30, 2015, 09:54:08 PM
1. Second frugalwoods blog. In many ways "keeping it simple" really helps (but can be boring)
2. You need to separate "eating healthy" with "organic/ local/ grassfed" because they aren't exactly the same. You can eat healthfully in a way that is not as "ethical" but is cheaper. So much of your cost here is due to ethics and not health.
3. On that, I go back and forth. I try to eat ethically and get grassfed/ local when I can (go in on a pig or a cow with a friend, etc). I belong to a CSA for veggies (which is a killer deal). BUT I don't make 100% hard and fast rules, so I eat regular chicken and turkey burgers and non-organic berries on occasion.
4. There are a few ways to reduce overall food costs:
- find out how to source the food you DO eat more cheaply. For this, you have to dig into what you eat, make a price book, and figure out how to get each thing cheaper. That means if store A has basmatic rice on sale for 1/3 off 2x a year, that is when and where you buy it.
- figure out what you can make yourself - like cooking dried beans from scratch, making your own hummus, making your own marinara, baking your own bread, etc.
- calculate the cost per serving of your regular meals, and snacks, and servings of fruit/ veg, etc (we tend to eat a LOT of fruit/veg and protein) and increase the frequency of the rotation of the cheaper things
- find cheaper foods to eat
So on these last two, it means I buy 5 lb bags of carrots, not baby carrots, and peel them myself. I eat cauliflower and cabbage because they are cheaper. I eat bananas and oranges because they are cheaper than strawberries (not that I never eat strawberries - we got 1 pt of them this week from the CSA and 2 pt of figs!)
5. Set a budget and stick to it, and spend no more money until your next week. I've never run out of food.
I took a page from frugalwoods book and made a big batch of beans and rice, enough for over a week (because I cannot eat many carbs)
All in all, last year, when I was only focused on health, we spent $10,500 on food for a family of four. My neighbors, who have a family of five and shop local/ organic/ grassfed at the farmer's market, spent about $24k.
This year, I'm making a serious effort to set a budget. So far I'm at $2800 for the year plus CSA. I expect that I'll end up under $6000, including the CSA. It means I shop at a LOT more stores, and we just don't eat as much variety.
Post by: PFHC on August 30, 2015, 09:59:52 PM
Frozen berries - Pick your own seasonally
kale - garden. Try the red Russian variety. Grows well in cold conditions
Oatmeal - switch to bulk bin at whole foods or order from Amazon
Maple Syrup - you have no maple trees?? You know organic maple syrup is a scam, right? There is no legal thing you can do to maple trees to make it not organic. Virtually all syrup is organic, just local places don't pay the fee to get the organic sticker.
Love the idea for frozen berries. We tried for two years to grow red russian. They grew in stumpy and thin. Not enough sun and our yard is on a north facing slope in a cold climate. Even spent a whole fall and winter felling trees to improve our sun. The next year (last year) it did not work.
We do have one psuedo-sunny area of the yard that grew garlic and sweet potatoes well. I hate to be a complainypants here, but it's tough because I'm a merchant mariner and am away from home for 3-4 weeks at a time. My wife is a single mother during that time period. It is hard for her to have enough time to raise the kids, run the house, cook three meals a day, and do the garden. :/ She is a regular bad ass, but that is a lot to ask. Maybe next year, as both kids are now getting much more independent, we can do a little kitchen garden up there.
We have two maple trees. We do not buy organic maple syrup. I can't imagine that even with doing my own maple syrup, I could come anywhere close to $10 for 32 oz of maple syrup. With a 50 to 1 reduction ratio, the cost of fuel alone to cook off the water would wipe that out. And, that much syrup lasts us several months. We eat virtually no sugar in our diet other than fruit.
Post by: cchrissyy on August 30, 2015, 10:24:21 PM
I just logged in to Mint and confirmed what I thought I knew, which is that my grocery shopping is just over once per week, and that feeds 1 adult and 3 big kids.
my YTD # of trips
26 Trader Joes
5 farmer's market
8 produce stand
12 bakery
As far as your expenses, yes please post more receipts, all I can suggest from Sams Club is maybe don't buy their frozen fruits but rather, if space allows, freeze your own when they are in season and cheapest.
Post by: PFHC on August 30, 2015, 11:20:36 PM
I'm surprised not just by your dollars but by the trips!
I just logged in to Mint and confirmed what I thought I knew, which is that my grocery shopping is just over once per week, and that feeds 1 adult and 3 big kids.
my YTD # of trips
26 Trader Joes
5 farmer's market
8 produce stand
12 bakery
What do you spend per year?
Post by: PFHC on August 30, 2015, 11:34:41 PM
I had the exact same problem and posted about it here when I joined the forum. I was going over $1k/month pretty much every month and have cut it back to $800/month most months.
Glad to hear from someone on the same path as me. I would love to get to $800/mo!
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I'm with you, but we had a tendency to have a set shopping list and get mostly the same stuff every week regardless of price. Good for consistent healthy eating, bad for the wallet.
This is great advice. That is definitely what we do. We get the same stuff mostly, and buy it regardless of price. Much smarter to buy for price and season. Eating seasonally is better for you anyhow.
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No sacred cows. Set a ballpark target for each category. When you've got $50 for fruits and $50 for veggies for the week and you're looking at $3/lb apple display or a $4 bell pepper (why are those F'ers so expensive??) you might opt out and go for something of great volume that you'll get more than one meal out of.
Word. The short of the long is look at the damn price. Understood.
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On volume, be looking for a sale and stock up. Tomatoes on sale? Get 'em! Go crazy. Make pasta sauce, soups and freeze. Apples, eat a bunch that week, make some compotes, etc. Now when there is nothing but $3/lb apples garnish oatmeal with that instead of buying fresh.
This is done by us on organic bananas. We wait until they are going bad, buy the lot for them for less than non-organic, then peel and freeze them all. They act as the base for the smoothies we eat regularly. Thanks for punching me in the face with the idea that you can do it elsewhere! Duh. This is now on our "Getting better at groceries action plan". ;)
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And some weeks you just might not buy the stuff. You aren't gonna die if you don't have apples one week. You're not even gonna be less healthy if you have to eat more potatoes or rice n' beans.
This. This will help us a lot. Thanks big_slacker. Solid advice here.
Post by: PFHC on August 30, 2015, 11:41:30 PM
Fruit and spendy veggies. Go for cabbage and broccoli over asparagus and artichokes.
This is what gets us. A few other commenters suggested shopping for price, not item. Don't go in planning to get apples, go in planning to get the cheapest fruit. It's on the action plan. :)
Post by: PFHC on August 30, 2015, 11:45:09 PM
My suggestion would be to itemize your receipts for a month or two.
Good plan, ender. I put it on the action plan.
Honestly feel that $300/month with the way we chose to eat is a pipe dream. It's a goal, but I feel a very far out of reach goal.
Post by: obstinate on August 30, 2015, 11:45:59 PM
Post by: PFHC on August 30, 2015, 11:49:23 PM
One more vote for a CSA and for showing us an itemized list of, say, the last week's groceries and cost.
Hey, jakejake. Doing the CSA. Already priced two out... going to do some comparison shopping.
Unfortunately, I do not have access to last week grocery receipt. I 100 miles from land out on a ship for the next 10 days. But, my wife plans to send me the list from tomorrow's grocery trip and Thursday (she's doing a small one Monday to get us by until Thursday, so we can get on a once per week rotation on a good day). I promise to post the list ASAP!
Post by: PFHC on August 31, 2015, 12:06:56 AM
- Are you eating beans? As previously mentioned, we eat a lot of lentils/beans, which we buy in bulk. These take the form of bean sprout salads, indian curries, soups, burritos, chilis, stews, white beans and kale, etc. They are versatile, cheap, filling, and have protein.
Yep. Not all dried as sometimes my wife needs a quicker meal (as mentioned in a previous comment, I work out to sea for 3-4 weeks at a time, so my wife is a single mom during that time). But, we do eat dried beans, lentils. That said, not often enough. Your suggestions sound awesome! They're on our action list.
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- Are you eating seasonal vegetables, or do you pick up the same standards week after week? For example, now that it's summer, we are mainly eating tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers, eggplants, green beans, and melons. I kind of miss leafy greens, but I know they'll be back before we know it, and come winter that and root vegetables is all we'll eat. But it is much cheaper to eat what is in season.
We need to get way better at this. We pick the same stand-bys every week. On the action list. :)
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- Do you throw food out? If things are going bad before you get to them, if you toss old leftovers, etc., you are throwing away money. We waste almost no food. Like, we threw out a moldy peach a couple of weeks ago, and I still remember it because that is how rare it is for us to not eat everything we buy.
No. We are awesome with leftovers. We can get better at eating everything we buy. We occasionally over shoot our needs and end up with bad food.
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- Do you plan meals in advance? This is a big part of not wasting food and keeping your costs and number of trips to the grocery store down. Also, going in with a list makes it easier to stick to a budget.
No. We do a list, but not with a meal plan in mind. We seem to not be able to get our shit together enough to make one happen. We've been up to our ears in young kids, a house to renovate, travel, my work, living life, having fun, reading, playing, and other stuff to shoehorn in the time to make the list. Long story short, we know we need to do a list, but have been suck at it.
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- Do you track your spending in real time? I would track our spending at the end of each month, and for a while we were routinely going over our food budget. Since we started using YNAB, which has an excellent phone app, it has been much easier to see where we are in relation to our food budget each time we go shopping.
Yes, with Mint. And I have been bugged by our grocery spending for years as I have watched it crawl up. My wife and I have been dismayed and it wasn't until we discovered MMM and finally this forum that we have started to develop a direction on how to change this. What happened before was we would just arbitrarily set a budget, blow it to smithereens, and just shake our head as to what happened. We needed things to do. We're doers. And thanks to the bright folks here, we have a some real things to do.
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- Do you have a Trader Joe's near you? They have the best prices on nuts that I've found.
Yes, we do. In the same town as Sam's. This is great to know. Thanks! On the action list. :)
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You mentioned that you were looking for help on meal planning and recipes. If you want to see an example of a week of meals for us, or want any recipes, I'm happy to share. But these are just some issues that may be contributing to your high grocery costs.
I would absolutely love that. Can you PM it to me, or better yet, PM me your email and we can exchange that way? You sound like you eat very similar to us, and we would love some pointers.
Post by: PFHC on August 31, 2015, 12:11:41 AM
One thing I just noticed - you list milk and yogurt as separate items. Are you buying cups of yogurt, or making it?
Also - what are the "snacks" from Sams exactly?
Buying a quart jar of kefir, quart of yogurt, and a 1/2 gallon of raw milk once per week. We drink half the milk and make more yogurt and kefir with the rest.
Ya, I know... raw milk. Basically drinking gold. But, everyone in my family does not react well to processed milk. We all get snotty and phlegmy. We gave it up for years entirely. We read a few books and online articles about trying raw milk, and we felt we need to up our healthy fat intake and calcium (especially for our kids), so we forayed into raw milk. It has worked wonderfully. And, it only amounts to a $20/wk habit, so we're going to likely stick with it.
Post by: PFHC on August 31, 2015, 12:13:11 AM
The less you shop the less you will buy. We we were a family of 5 we went 2x/month for major shop. Then picked up fruits, veggies, milk etc in between but did not browse when we went to pick these up. Just got them & left. Now that there are only 2 of us our big shop is 1x/month.
Agreed. The trends I developed show this pretty clearly. That is why we have instituted a 1/wk rule, with the potential to go less often.
Post by: PFHC on August 31, 2015, 12:16:22 AM
Sprouts are a cheap addition- I can make a batch for 4 cents a pint. I buy sprouting seeds in bulk on line or sometimes for mung bean (aka bean sprouts) at an Indian market. All it takes is a jar, some cloth and a rubber band over the top and twice a day rinsing.
I second the recommendation for eating seaonally. Much much cheaper. If you have access to sun, even lettuce and herbs in pots are a huge money saver.
We have done a fair share of sprouting and growing veggies. As for sprouts, we had a hard time seeing the savings as they are nutritious, but not calorie dense.
Growing veggies is highlighted in several of my previous comments.
Post by: PFHC on August 31, 2015, 12:36:05 AM
I know this is a PITA question, but on that shopping list, I can't tell if you've gotten great deals or awful ones because the sizes aren't listed for most things. Any change of editing that in? (decent price for the basmati, though!)
Done. :)
Post by: PFHC on August 31, 2015, 12:52:33 AM
PFHC:
First, congrats that you even KNOW what you are spending. Most people can't track. Second, congrats again that you want to trim those costs. I'm with you 100% on regarding healthy eating as a kind of insurance policy. Our sons grew up this way and even as adults, those habits persist. THey are both 6ft 3 inch monsters with low body fat and textbook physiques. Believe me, what you are doing will pay off handsome dividends for everyone in the house.
Thanks, man. Nice to hear some support for how we eat. We catch a lot of flack, but honestly we feel awesome, our kids are awesome, and our health couldn't be better. :)
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One other comment that may-or-may-not be applicable: if you have other places you can cut expenses to a greater magnitude, it might be better to focus on that rather than on food. I got pretty worried about my household's grocery budget (I've blabbed in several threads about it and started one of my own about it) but then I realized there were other places I could change how we live and it didn't matter one bit and didn't diminish our living standard one bit.
Examples of what I mean here are: getting rid of cell phone contracts, getting rid of pay tv, fixing my own vehicles, riding the bike more, hacking my power bill, paying off all debt (besides mortgage) and jacking up my pre-tax 401k contributions.
We use republic wireless (avg $38/mo); have never owned a TV nor payed for any service; I'm a Marine Engineer which is car mechanic for 10,000 hp engines and their support systems, so ya, I fix everything; embarking upon walking and riding bikes much more; we hang dry everything and do pretty well with power. I can't jack my 401k because I am looking at 7 years until FI, so I have to fund my taxable accounts/real estate pretty aggressively so I will have the money to make it to 59.5.
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Good luck man. Total props to you and how you make your living! Rock on man!
Thanks, dude. This was the feel good comment of the thread. :)
Post by: PFHC on August 31, 2015, 04:22:41 AM
A typical shopping list would help bring suggestions.
pbkmaine... not sure if your name indicates you're a Mainer. Hope so, as I am and some advice from a fellow Mainer would certainly help.
OK. We have three trips. Weekly trip to Hannaford's and a local market specializing in local/organic stuff. We used spend around $300 between the two trips. Then every three weeks, we go to Sam's and get bulk items. Depending on what we have to get, that runs between $150 - $250.
Mainer here! Hannaford is definitely the best of the main grocery stores. Loss leaders are cheaper at Shaws but everything else is much more expensive. Trader Joes is cheapest for peanut butter and coffee though. I get my produce and fancy farm raised meat through a CSA at Wolf Pine Farm in Alfred (they deliver all over southern Maine) ww.wolfpine farm.com $500/6 months of yummy organic veggies.
If you shop Whole Foods, know your prices! For example, tofu is actually cheaper at Hannaford. For veggies there is also the Crown of Maine organic cooperative which delivers. Portland food coop was ordering from them before they got all fancy and built a store. I never joined as that coop model didn't work for me but coops are nice in general.
Also PYO for berries. $2.49/lb organic blueberries in Cornish, also picked strawberries. Goss Berry Farm in Poland has raspberries although don't think they are organic. Tons of apples in fall.
Thanks so much for the pointers for CSA and PYO berries. Unfortunately, both are much too far away to be practical for us. I am looking into something closer. Again, thank you!
Post by: pbkmaine on August 31, 2015, 07:26:12 AM
2) For gardens, the best bang for your buck in Maine, IMHO, is herbs, onions and fruit. You can start a windowsill herb garden now, but come May, plant chives, oregano, thyme, parsley, sage and whatever else takes your fancy. Mint will grow like wildfire - you will need to corral it. As you doubtless know, blueberries grow wonderfully there. So do raspberries, blackberries and strawberries. And it is a great climate for many varieties of apples. Find your local cooperative extension and ask for advice. Test your soil. It should be rich like chocolate cake and full of worms. Compost!
Post by: Jakejake on August 31, 2015, 07:45:45 AM
Buying a quart jar of kefir, quart of yogurt, and a 1/2 gallon of raw milk once per week. We drink half the milk and make more yogurt and kefir with the rest.I'm confused about all this. If you are making kefir and yogurt, why are you also buying a quart of each every week, instead of what using what you made last week as starter?
Ya, I know... raw milk. Basically drinking gold. But, everyone in my family does not react well to processed milk. We all get snotty and phlegmy. We gave it up for years entirely. We read a few books and online articles about trying raw milk, and we felt we need to up our healthy fat intake and calcium (especially for our kids), so we forayed into raw milk. It has worked wonderfully. And, it only amounts to a $20/wk habit, so we're going to likely stick with it.
Me, I would skip the raw milk entirely. I'm somewhat lactose intolerant and don't drink regular milk, but once it's turned into yogurt I can eat it fine - the bacteria breaks down the lactose. You definitely don't need milk as a calcium source - vegans manage to get calcium just fine through legumes and leafy greens, and it sounds like you have at least the greens covered well in your diet. Making or buying a quart a week of almond or rice milk or some similar nondairy option if you want it for drinking is probably way cheaper than raw milk, and if regular milk turned into yogurt doesn't disagree with you all, you could buy milk from nonhormone cows probably a lot cheaper than raw milk.
I think you have a lot of $20 per week items that you write off as no big deal, what's $20 dollars? Each one of those items is $1000 per year though. Just cutting out that half gallon of liquid per week could fund your kids' college:
https://web.extension.illinois.edu/money/saving_twentyperweek.cfm
Post by: Fishindude on August 31, 2015, 08:02:49 AM
If not, buy local produce items when in season cheap, then dry, can or freeze for later use. This will be much better stuff than you will buy at any market.
From my experience, these markets that label everything "organic" are just overpriced groceries.
Learn to harvest and process wild fish and game. Seems like that stuff would be abundant in Maine?
We catch lots of fish and usually put an elk and a couple deer in the freezer every year.
Post by: Jakejake on August 31, 2015, 08:07:44 AM
I went years without flax seeds even though I kind of wanted them. Then kroger marked down their ground flax seeds to $1.29 a pound, and I stocked up. Same with chia seeds. They are a luxury item, not a necessity, so I'm not going to put them on a shopping list. But at one point walgreens had one pound jars for $10 or something, but when you bought one, it printed register coupon for $10 off your next order. And you could use that for some other product that generated $10, and flip it on another chia container, back and forth. I got about 10 lbs of chia seeds for free that week and stocked up, and I am enjoying the heck out of them, but when they run out I am not going to start paying $10/lb for them. That's insane.
Shopping that way, groceries for my husband and I (including toilet paper, shampoo, nonfood stuff) has totaled under $1300 for the entire last year. I don't shop based on planned menus - I shop based on sales and markdowns, and have a general idea that I need veggies or fruit and plan my menu based on what I acquire.
One other gardening note too - purslane. That crap grows like weeds no matter what the conditions, and it's crazy healthy. I've never planted it in my yard, it just grows anywhere it can grab hold - you might even have some already and not know it.
Post by: acroy on August 31, 2015, 08:18:40 AM
Forget about the "organic" and gluten thing. Those fads will be over and the money spent on "special healthy foods" will be forever gone.
TRUTH
OP I don't know how you manage to burn $1200/mo (did I read that right?), not eating meat and cheese & such! amazing. We feed 8 people on $650-700 per month, and we eat well. Quality, in bulk, on sale.
Post by: Bracken_Joy on August 31, 2015, 08:25:00 AM
only buy the "dirty dozen" organic, but better yet? Don't buy things off the dirty dozen often. Buy things that don't need to be organic in the first place. This gets back to what previous posters have said about fruit being essentially a very expensive desert. Veggies is where it is at- lower sugar, higher nutrient density, cheaper, lower pesticide load on many.
Now you can keep that sacred cow but not spend money on it =)
Ie- Apples tested very dirty, but organic are incredibly expensive. Okay, skip the apples. Eat conventional pears instead if you insist on a similar fruit. Bell peppers and nectarines are incredibly expensive anyway, so it shouldn't make a big difference that they should be organic. There are plenty of very healthy and cheap items that aren't on the dirty dozen- cabbage and sweet potatoes and avocados (can be cheap in season, and make a big bang in a dish, so relative to quantity needed they're cheap). In season, asparagus is cheap and it doesn't need to be organic. Grapefruits are the same deal. Expensive out of season, cheap in season.
Post by: wenchsenior on August 31, 2015, 08:53:49 AM
I had the exact same problem and posted about it here when I joined the forum. I was going over $1k/month pretty much every month and have cut it back to $800/month most months.
Here is what helped:
Look at where the 'bleeding' occurs. Hint, it's organic fruits and veggies. If you're like me you'll have a big problem here because you know that's the good stuff where health happens. I'm with you, but we had a tendency to have a set shopping list and get mostly the same stuff every week regardless of price. Good for consistent healthy eating, bad for the wallet.
No sacred cows. Set a ballpark target for each category. When you've got $50 for fruits and $50 for veggies for the week and you're looking at $3/lb apple display or a $4 bell pepper (why are those F'ers so expensive??) you might opt out and go for something of great volume that you'll get more than one meal out of.
On volume, be looking for a sale and stock up. Tomatoes on sale? Get 'em! Go crazy. Make pasta sauce, soups and freeze. Apples, eat a bunch that week, make some compotes, etc. Now when there is nothing but $3/lb apples garnish oatmeal with that instead of buying fresh.
Frozen fruits/veggies are another option. If you do a lot of greens shakes you can grab stuff on sale, pre-pack smoothie servings and you're good to go for a few weeks or longer.
And some weeks you just might not buy the stuff. You aren't gonna die if you don't have apples one week. You're not even gonna be less healthy if you have to eat more potatoes or rice n' beans. Since cutting my budget in this way my bloodwork and body comp hasn't changed a bit. :)
We have a similar issue that is an ongoing area of improvement...we run around 1000$ per month for two adults and three cats as well (which includes eating out and alcohol), eating extremely high quality food (no simple carb 'extenders', no hamburger, etc.). I've accepted that I'm never going to eat as cheaply as many do on this board, but my goal has been to reduce our average by 200-300/month by just shopping smarter, as opposed to changing specifics of what we eat too much (e.g., we're going to keep eating salmon 4-5 times per month, so we just have to suck up that ~50$). I picked some obvious high cost areas (meat, toiletries, pet supplies, alcohol, etc.) and focused on those to learn where the best deals are in town. I also am trying to switch to more cheap whole grains/beans.
Tentatively, this seems to be working, though seeing hard data in terms of dropping averages hasn't shown up in the 4 months we've been working hard at this...but I think that is partly because 2 of those months were aberrant (one month we had a houseguest for two weeks, so more $ plus a lot more eating out, and one month we were gone for two weeks that meals were handled for us, but ate out a lot more because of traveling.)
Still, I'm confident this will pay off over the long term. It took about two months of focused effort from me...picking items to work on, tracking loss leaders of local stores, checking at different stores for price comparisons. Not too bad in terms of effort.
Post by: Jakejake on August 31, 2015, 09:29:08 AM
The budget problems aren't from avoiding wheat; there are other grains (rice, oats) that are relatively cheap and gluten free. We don't need to eat bread. The budget problems aren't from what you're opting out of, it seems to be more a problem with what you are opting into. I would look at, for example, the price of quinoa vs. brown rice, and decide if there really are nutrients in quinoa that you guys are lacking, or whether you're getting its strong points through other foods already in your diet. Here's a chart comparing their relative strengths and weaknesses. http://www.prevention.com/content/whats-healthier-quinoa-or-brown-rice
You can see brown rice is higher in manganese, for example, but quinoa beats it in folate. But if you are getting enough folate through broccoli or spinach, why pay extra to have it specifically in quinoa? From a quick online search, it looks like brown rice generally runs half the cost or less.
Post by: KMMK on August 31, 2015, 09:39:33 AM
I'm gonna buck the trend on the gluten thing. I don't think there's any problem in deciding not to eat wheat at all - and I get that it's currently popular to avoid it, but I think that's because research has made people more aware of how it affects people.
The budget problems aren't from avoiding wheat; there are other grains (rice, oats) that are relatively cheap and gluten free. We don't need to eat bread. The budget problems are from what you're opting out of, it seems to be more a problem with what you are opting into. I would look at, for example, the price of quinoa vs. brown rice, and decide if there really are nutrients in quinoa that you guys are lacking, or whether you're getting its strong points through other foods already in your diet. Here's a chart comparing their relative strengths and weaknesses. http://www.prevention.com/content/whats-healthier-quinoa-or-brown-rice
You can see brown rice is higher in manganese, for example, but quinoa beats it in folate. But if you are getting enough folate through broccoli or spinach, why pay extra to have it specifically in quinoa? From a quick online search, it looks like brown rice generally runs half the cost or less.
Yes, for gluten-free carbs I eat mostly brown rice, corn, and potatoes, which are all cheap. Buckwheat and millet are options too. I eat quinoa, but a lot less frequently because of the price.
I'd also probably skip the milk, which really isn't necessary for health.
Post by: mm1970 on August 31, 2015, 10:50:43 AM
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'd have a super hard time hitting $300/ month. Our kids are 9 and 3, and we come in more like $500 a month - and I've been eating/cooking frugally for years (it's where I put my focus), and it's a TON of work.My suggestion would be to itemize your receipts for a month or two.
Good plan, ender. I put it on the action plan.
Honestly feel that $300/month with the way we chose to eat is a pipe dream. It's a goal, but I feel a very far out of reach goal.
On meal planning - it can be super hard to manage that with a crazy life and little kids. My meal planning seems to have evolved into a more "general" thing:
First, I list what I got from the CSA on Thursday and list the "loss leader" veggies I bought elsewhere.
1. figure out what I'm eating for lunch (45 year old woman trying to lose 5 lbs) - so that means a lot of veggies and some protein.
- 2 cups of veggies a day (one lunch/ one snack)
- one fruit
- two proteins
2. Make a big batch of "something" for the family for the week: Beans and rice, chili, pasta, crockpot chicken, roasted chicken and veggies, soup, frittata, whatever
3. Prep other stuff for lunches for the family - wash and cut raw veggies and fruits, hard boil some eggs. Make sure I've got lunches covered for my husband (either sandwiches or leftovers)
4. Make sure I have enough veggies for dinner. Loosely plan dinners for 1/2 the week (too hard to plan further than that):
- Monday - chicken and a veg
- Tuesday - tacos and a veg (sometimes bean tacos, sometimes meat tacos)
- Wednesday - usually the leftovers from the weekend
- Thursday - honestly I wing it. Baked salmon and veg, or stir-fry, or sandwiches, or turkey/ veggie burgers
- Friday - pizza night
When I was really "on it" I'd make 2 big meals on the weekend - one for lunches for M-F, one for dinner Su-M-Tue. Then Wednesday was "crock pot day", so chicken in the crockpot, or lasagna, or pinto beans, or stew or... That was enough for dinner through Friday.
You have to play around with different kinds of meal plans, and recognize that what works now might not always work. I've gone from planning a month ahead, to a week in advance, to just winging it every night, to a plan where we ate specific things on specific nights, to planning two days ahead... These days I work late Monday and Wednesday, so Sunday and Tuesday nights I figure out what we are going to have that my husband can make. And if nothing is prepped, then I prep it before bed.
Just take small steps and you'll get there!
Post by: NeverLost on August 31, 2015, 11:22:40 AM
1. I bought less alcohol. Not only do I love wine and my husband loves beer, but we were having friends and/or family over weekly. I would always insist they didn't bring anything and would load up on beer and white and red wine, so I had options. This was unnecessary and now I have no problem responding to "what can we bring?" with "how about some beer/wine/other?" Additionally, we quit drinking (mostly) on weekdays.
2. I became completely price conscious. I started really looking and internalizing what things actually cost so that I was better able to notice when things were actually a good deal. When they are, I stack up!
3. I bought a dozen glass containers and started buying all my staples in bulk - lentils, rice, beans, panko, noodles, etc.
4. I quit buying ALL my produce organic. Instead, I stick to the dirty dozen list. Also, I always make sure I am USING the produce by making either fried rice or stir fry once a week. This way, the tiny bit of broccoli, green onions, etc that are on their way out are used in a meal that is a weekly family favorite.
5. I changed my kids snack habits. This one was huge. When my kids get home from school every day they want a snack. I used to give them a Lara bar or yogurt cup or whatever they asked for. Now, the kids know that snack time means fruits or veggies only. This was an adjustment but now it's second nature. So they come home and go straight to the fruit basket and grab a plum or ask me to cut up an apple with some peanut butter or give them a couple carrot or cucumber sticks. This change has also made them get totally used to having some sliced cucumbers in their lunches where they used to be a bar, string cheese, or other more costly option.
6. I meal plan religiously with prices. I have a weekly menu that I base off of what I have currently coupled with what I'm buying. For instance, if I am buying greek yogurt for one recipe, I will try and base a second night's cooking off of finishing that off. If I know that I want to budget $250 for the next two weeks but I need a more expensive item right now, then I will accommodate for it by having a curry lentil soup or grilled veggies with a garlic yogurt sauce and bread (or other really inexpensive item) one night. I have gotten great about knowing what things cost so that if I estimate my groceries will be $75, I am always in the ballpark.
7. We eat less meat. We buy whole organic frozen chickens from a farm and we split organic beef and pork with another family. We eat meat probably 2-3 times/week.
8. I started growing some basics. I have a small herb garden that saves me a ton on making our meals flavorful as well as a small raised bed that I grow zucchini, eggplant, tomatoes and cucumbers. We eat a shit-ton of those items when they are ripe and freeze the rest for later! I am in Idaho and have a 4x10 raised bed on the side of my house with marginally good sun.
9. I got a bread-maker for my birthday. I make a loaf of bread (or two) every weekend which saves us a ton since we pack our kids' lunch daily for school and sandwiches are a part of it at least a couple days.
10. If I am over budget, I quit buying things and rummage through the pantry and freezer, period.
Hope this helps! I think just being conscious of what you are spending your money on is the first step!
Post by: sunnyca on August 31, 2015, 12:25:34 PM
Since trying to eat more plant-based, I've found my Instant Pot to be my best friend. It makes cooking dried beans a snap (20 min!), and I can throw in beans with rice, veggies, etc. and have enough for meals for a week.
Kind of boring, food wise, but that's not necessarily a bad thing for me, as I'd like to lose a few pounds.
Post by: RelaxedGal on August 31, 2015, 12:37:46 PM
Maple Syrup - you have no maple trees?? You know organic maple syrup is a scam, right? There is no legal thing you can do to maple trees to make it not organic. Virtually all syrup is organic, just local places don't pay the fee to get the organic sticker.We have two maple trees. We do not buy organic maple syrup. I can't imagine that even with doing my own maple syrup, I could come anywhere close to $10 for 32 oz of maple syrup. With a 50 to 1 reduction ratio, the cost of fuel alone to cook off the water would wipe that out. And, that much syrup lasts us several months. We eat virtually no sugar in our diet other than fruit.
My husband makes maple syrup as a hobby. I agree - can't do it that cheaply! I think we go through one propane tank for every 32oz of syrup, so it's about $10. Add in the time, and... yeah, totally worth buying it.
Post by: Cpa Cat on August 31, 2015, 01:00:27 PM
I'm not a Maine-ite, but your local County Extension Master Gardeners or Extension Office can probably provide you with a list of best cultivars for your area.
Then drop in 5-6 raspberry bushes (I like Heritage, if it will grow in Maine, I highly suggest it for raspberries) and a couple of blackberry bushes. Maybe drop in some asparagus.
Focus on things that will be easy care and mostly pest and disease free. Think outside the box a little. If apples suffer from a lot of disease/pest pressure, then maybe try asian pears. The point is to avoid crops that are going to require your attention, or worse - chemicals.
I recommend fruiting-age trees, they are worth the extra investment. You can go two ways with fruit trees - super cheap, like buying on clearance at Home Depot; or pay a premium price to get a warranty. I have learned, through trial and error, that the cheap comes out expensive. I always buy my trees at the local Earl May now, because they offer a standard 1 year warranty. And you can usually get free planting/delivery. Last year, at the end of Summer, I grabbed two apples and two plums on clearance with a two-year warranty from them, delivery/planting included.
Keep your annual veggie garden small and confined to your full sun area. Gardens are a lot of work.
Post by: jooles on August 31, 2015, 01:05:28 PM
I bought and read cover to cover - The Complete Tightwad Gazette
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=tightwad+gazette
It is an old book, and some ideas/advice is a bit over the top, but it helped me expand my thinking and feel much less deprived.
Post by: seemsright on August 31, 2015, 01:36:53 PM
You cannot have it all. At least one thing has to give. Either you accept that you food bill is high because of the way you like to eat and feed your family and there is not time. Or you change the way you eat and spend more time getting and making food. I do not believe you can have it both ways.
Friday afternoon I cooked for a few hours (most of the time was cooking time that I was not actively doing something). I made pork shoulder, refried beans, salsa and spanish rice. We at that as tacos Friday night, Sat night we took the leftovers and made burritos. Then with the little bit of pork that was leftover we made brunch omelets Sunday morning with a slice of homemade toasted with homemade strawberry jam. So for $5 I got 8 meals out of the pork.
I am trying to get our food bill down. I am not willing to change the way I eat but I am willing to spend more time cooking and finding food. The other week I figured out how to make tofu from dry soy beans (it is easy) it took me 2 days to soak the beans, and make tofu. It saved me about $1.50 but it gave me a new skill and the texture of the tofu was amazing.
Post by: sstants on August 31, 2015, 03:03:05 PM
Here's a new way to think about things: look at your normal weekly menu and identify one or two frequent meals/recipes that you make that use expensive ingredients. Come up with a less expensive alternative recipe or meal and let your grocery list adjust. For example, when I feel like I need to cut back on my grocery expenses, I will replace an egg-based breakfast with oatmeal+peanut butter. Replace meat in a recipe with chickpeas e.g. do veggie lettuce wraps instead of using ground chicken. If your plans and your habits change, your grocery list and bill will follow!
Good luck, and don't drink your calories!! A little milk is fine, but free water is the best!
Post by: Bob W on August 31, 2015, 03:38:18 PM
So here is the dealio --
Organic produce is a bitch --- as you know uber expensive.
I'm thinking base your meals on beans (although most paleo "healthy" eaters would say that is a sure route to an early grave) and rice (once again Healthy? Unhealthy?)
Then just throw in a few veggies here and there. Avoid low caloric low nutrient veggies like green beans and lettuce. Stick with kale, cruciferous, and colored veggies. You don't need many. Fruit? Not in lots of people's current definition of healthy. Stick with some dark berries.
Then the real save is the oils --- I don't pretend to know your definition of healthy but I'll go with olive and coconut. On a cost per calorie basis that shit rocks.
Definitely never canola or veggie oil.
You can also get you some carbs from potatoes if those are on your healthy list. Just be sure to peel the skin.
You may also want to grow your own, can and find local growers.
17K per year is considered off the chart shitton high.
We eat a "healthy" diet for about $3 per person per day. Yours is more like $11.50.
So yeah, if I'm you --- I'm googling a few sites that say "Is organic really worth it?" So let's say that they guestimate that you get 2 years extra life with organics. So what else might get you 2 years? Well then you could just be more social which should easily add 2 years to your life. You could have a baby after age 40 which we did and that adds 4 years. You could take up drinking 2 shots per day which should be good for a couple of years. You could do a little walking to add 3 years. Pets add a couple. Google "odd things that add years to your life"
So yeah there are some free and cheap ways to add years to your life and enjoyment to your years.
By the way -- Did you include the full vehicle cost and not just gas in your calculations?
It is admirable that you are all organic by the way. If everyone did that food would be both healthy and cheap. If you can grow it yourself you should be able to grow about 3,000 pound in a quarter acre per year. That is a long term plan I think you should consider. If you grow an entire acre you could net a heavy chunk of change marketing the extra to local organic food junkies.
Post by: projekt on August 31, 2015, 04:30:14 PM
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/08/23/grocery-shopping-with-your-middle-finger/
Post by: Faraday on August 31, 2015, 04:39:41 PM
I didn't see this link posted when I skimmed, but it's always good to refer back to MMM on these questions.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/08/23/grocery-shopping-with-your-middle-finger/
Beautiful back-to-basics link. Thanks projekt, I missed that one!
Post by: merci001 on August 31, 2015, 05:35:47 PM
Post by: Potterquilter on August 31, 2015, 06:39:48 PM
Maybe your wife could write down what each person eats in the house for a week and some people here could come up with cheaper alternatives.
Another idea is to explore cheaper meals and have them every few days. Vegetarian recipes are everywhere on the major recipe sites like allrecipes and the food network.
You have gotten some great advice. We always buy what is in season. Right now watermelon is less then .50 for a big serving. Good idea about the carrots. Also, envision throwing food away like throwing cash in the trash. Would you toss $5 bill? Only a few spoiled veggies and fruits and you are there.
Good for you for trying to eat right but also realizing what it is costing you and evaluating alternatives.
Post by: mm1970 on August 31, 2015, 06:55:45 PM
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You cannot have it all. At least one thing has to give. Either you accept that you food bill is high because of the way you like to eat and feed your family and there is not time. Or you change the way you eat and spend more time getting and making food. I do not believe you can have it both ways.
Basic truth right there.
Post by: lucky-girl on August 31, 2015, 07:00:29 PM
Thanks for starting this thread. We are in a similar place- wondering how much we need/want to cut our food spending. My sense is that there are other places we could cut first, like another poster said before. And we have already cut our spending on food immensely since finding this forum- just being mindful makes a big difference. I think we were probably spending 1000 or more every month, and now we're in the 600-800 range.
We do grow a lot, which helps in the summer. And we have a chest freezer, which helps all year round-- Its great to be able to buy bigger amounts when things really are a great deal.
What I am hoping to try next is more meal planning. And I like the advice of pricing out our favorite meals and adjusting the frequency slightly based on that cost. We'll see how that goes! I'm hoping that soon we'll be spending closer to 500-600 per month.
For what it's worth, we shop almost exclusively at Whole Foods in Portland. I am a big fan of the 365 brand and find it to be a great value, especially compared to Trader Joes (not a fan). Whole Foods also will take 10% off anything you buy in case quantities, even if it is on sale. Anytime I see something I buy regularly on sale, I order a case and get a rain check at the customer service desk so I can get the sale price on the case when it comes in.
Post by: PFHC on August 31, 2015, 07:18:58 PM
- Nori 10 sheets $2.29
- Sushi rice 32 oz $3.29
- Tortilla chips 11 oz $2.00
- Bulk Cumin 7 oz $3.49
- Bulk Oregano 5.5 oz $3.29
- King Arthur GF Pancake mix 15 oz $4.89
- Bananas 2.68 lbs $1.31
- Watermelon 1 $4.99
- Avacados 6 $5.94
- OG Bananas 2.4 lbs $1.90
- OG peaches 1.87 lbs $7.46
- Red grapefruit 5 lbs $4.99
- Italia lime juice 4.2 oz $1.29
- OG Red bell peppers 2 $4.49
- OG greens mix 11 oz $5.99
- Free range eggs 12 $5.00
- Apples - non-organic 2.3 lbs $1.49
- total $64.10
OK, OK, before you all eviscerate us, I know! Some major problems. But, this is cool. I have been researching ways to get better at this while I'm out on the ship and haven't had a chance to convey my learnings fully to my wife. So, this is a normal shopping trip that we make. This WILL NOT be a normal trip in the future. Since reading all your comments, it is glaringly obvious the problems here. Fruit and shopping for product, not price.
I have the start of a game plan, folks. I have it typed up, going to clarify and and condense tonight, then the old lady and I plan to sit down and hammer it out until this is part of our life.
Would any of you be interested to see our plan? Would anyone be interested to see our next months results?
Post by: fishnfool on August 31, 2015, 07:22:13 PM
Post by: KMMK on August 31, 2015, 07:38:42 PM
To help with comparison, when I was part of a couple we spend $600/month for two adults. On my own I spend about $220 a month on food. And I'm certainly not above buying some expensive treat foods. So, yes, you should be able to get it below $1000/month with a few changes.
For me when I'm deciding on organic vs. convention, I buy organic if there isn't a big price difference between the two types. Fresh produce is so expensive anyhow - if convention apples are $1.60/lb and organic is $1.89 I might as well buy organic. I don't want to pay double or triple the price for organic.
Post by: BikeFanatic on August 31, 2015, 07:49:26 PM
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Would any of you be interested to see our plan? Would anyone be interested to see our next months results?
I for one would be interested in plan and results.
Post by: Thegoblinchief on August 31, 2015, 07:58:00 PM
1. Meat: for ethically-raised meat, pork is by far the cheapest in my area when purchased as a half or whole. Chicken is another $1/lb more and beef $1-2/lb further more. Factory raised meat is disgusting and cruel. I would give up organic produce before giving up this.
2. Organic, non-organic, dirty dozen.... As an avid gardener and someone who reads agronomy books for fun, the organic label is utterly meaningless when it comes to pesticide residue on food. It could be more, it could be less. It all depends on the farm. Some of my favorite farms here are not organic, but they grow according to IPM principles and so have miniscule pesticide usage compared to industry standard for their crops.
If you're only going to be buying at the supermarket and not from any trusted local sources, I'd give up the label personally.
3. CSA - These can vary widely in terms of being a deal. We looked for the best deal in our area. I've weighed and logged every box in a spreadsheet and we're behind what going to the farmers market would have cost, let alone a supermarket. They can be convenient(ish) but I would NOT recommend it as a money saving measure. I'm not going to buy a CSA share ever again, at least not in this area.
Family of 5 (kids 9,8,5) and our budget is $700/mo. We do have an extensive garden but not as a cost-saver - it's more of a hobby. It only shaves a few hundred dollars off per year versus the inputs. At least until our fruit-bearers mature.
Post by: backyardfeast on August 31, 2015, 08:17:35 PM
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I have the start of a game plan, folks. I have it typed up, going to clarify and and condense tonight, then the old lady and I plan to sit down and hammer it out until this is part of our life.
Would any of you be interested to see our plan? Would anyone be interested to see our next months results?
This is awesome PFHC! I for one would love to see your plan and your next month's results. As this is a perennial topic on these forums, I think other future readers would benefit too. And the twist of seeing realistically what your very busy wife can manage is important to see too. I do agree with the earlier poster who said it is ok to cut yourselves some slack when life circumstances are not ideal. Try out some strategies and find a balance that you and your family will be comfortable with.
That said, I hope you and your wife can really see the difference between shopping for quinoa, sushi rice, pancake mix, and avocadoes, vs your prices on healthy, seasonal basics like apples and eggs. I'm hoping that your wife will find what I did, which is that my stress levels about both healthy eating AND budget came way down when I went from being a foodie who wanted to follow every health trend to going back to basic, healthy, fairly simply prepared food. Like someone said earlier, find maybe 10 meals that are simple, cheap, easy to adapt, and that everyone likes. There's a reason our grandparents had meatloaf mondays, pork chop tuesdays, etc! :)
We definitely have a rotation: eggs + potatoes + veg, pasta with veg (and maybe a can of tuna added), stir-fry, soup/stew, pizza, burritos, pork roast... any of these can be made with whatever variety of ingredients are priced well that week, and those differences make up the variety in the diet. All will provide tasty lunch leftovers, and all take the pressure off your wife worrying about what to make for dinner each day.
BTW--I hear people getting great deals on the bulk baking supplies online. Pancake mix is a bit silly, IMHO. It's just flour, baking powder/soda, sugar and salt; you still have to add the milk, eggs, and oil...Find a reliable recipe and make up a batch yourselves for the cupboard if it's that much of a hassle to do each time.
Good luck! Your attitude is awesome and I'd love to see the results!
Post by: PFHC on August 31, 2015, 08:19:20 PM
So yeah, if I'm you --- I'm googling a few sites that say "Is organic really worth it?" So let's say that they guestimate that you get 2 years extra life with organics. So what else might get you 2 years? Well then you could just be more social which should easily add 2 years to your life. You could have a baby after age 40 which we did and that adds 4 years. You could take up drinking 2 shots per day which should be good for a couple of years. You could do a little walking to add 3 years. Pets add a couple. Google "odd things that add years to your life"
This is a bit of a side track and probably fodder for another topic, but we are not aiming for adding years by eating organic. We are aiming to improve the quality and intensity of years I get. I want to be chopping wood at age 122 and say, you know what, I've had enough living. Time to sew it up.
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By the way -- Did you include the full vehicle cost and not just gas in your calculations?
Yep. Used $.55/mile, which includes fuel and wear and tear.
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It is admirable that you are all organic by the way. If everyone did that food would be both healthy and cheap.
Thanks, but we're going to look at it harder. Unfortunately, it becomes a bit of a Catch 22. Again, fodder for another post, but there are some nasty shit several of the big name organic growers, especially those doing it in Latin America, are doing, including over farming and damaging the soil.
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If you can grow it yourself you should be able to grow about 3,000 pound in a quarter acre per year. That is a long term plan I think you should consider. If you grow an entire acre you could net a heavy chunk of change marketing the extra to local organic food junkies.
Ya, that is under ideal conditions. We gave it a very very earnest try to past two years to grow our yard. We compost all our food scraps, used goat droppings and bedding, seaweed, planted clover and winter rye, and on and on. The soil has gotten richer, but unfortunately, all our land is a north-facing shaded slope. No good for growing much of anything. Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, there is a small patch that grows well which we grow garlic and have grown sweet potatoes (80 lbs!!). We'd like to do a small garden there this coming year.
Post by: Workingmomsaves on August 31, 2015, 08:31:27 PM
Post by: PFHC on August 31, 2015, 08:39:46 PM
Buying a quart jar of kefir, quart of yogurt, and a 1/2 gallon of raw milk once per week. We drink half the milk and make more yogurt and kefir with the rest.I'm confused about all this. If you are making kefir and yogurt, why are you also buying a quart of each every week, instead of what using what you made last week as starter?
Ya, I know... raw milk. Basically drinking gold. But, everyone in my family does not react well to processed milk. We all get snotty and phlegmy. We gave it up for years entirely. We read a few books and online articles about trying raw milk, and we felt we need to up our healthy fat intake and calcium (especially for our kids), so we forayed into raw milk. It has worked wonderfully. And, it only amounts to a $20/wk habit, so we're going to likely stick with it.
Me, I would skip the raw milk entirely. I'm somewhat lactose intolerant and don't drink regular milk, but once it's turned into yogurt I can eat it fine - the bacteria breaks down the lactose. You definitely don't need milk as a calcium source - vegans manage to get calcium just fine through legumes and leafy greens, and it sounds like you have at least the greens covered well in your diet. Making or buying a quart a week of almond or rice milk or some similar nondairy option if you want it for drinking is probably way cheaper than raw milk, and if regular milk turned into yogurt doesn't disagree with you all, you could buy milk from nonhormone cows probably a lot cheaper than raw milk.
I think you have a lot of $20 per week items that you write off as no big deal, what's $20 dollars? Each one of those items is $1000 per year though. Just cutting out that half gallon of liquid per week could fund your kids' college:
https://web.extension.illinois.edu/money/saving_twentyperweek.cfm
Ya. After posting that, before I racked out last night, I had a little moment about raw milk. We have been entirely milk free for the last 7 years. Until last month when I read a book extolling the virtues of raw milk, this one in particular was about its purported benefit in combating tooth decay. The book was largely evidence free and full of wild allegations, but the intuitive arguments rung true with me. So, we went with it. The kids absolutely love the raw, no sweetener added, yogurt. Love it. And I think it is very healthy. But, we can go without. They get plenty of nutrients elsewhere, and plenty of good fats in the form of olive oil and coconut oil.
And, trust me, I know the virtue of saving $20. I am just trying to adjust myself into what luxuries we should allow ourselves. Food takes the place as our highest expense by far. More than 4 times the next highest. It will stay our main luxury, we just want to trim anything obvious. Thanks to you all, we're going to be able to do that.
I am so damn psyched to get rolling with this. The MMM community is awesome!
Post by: PFHC on August 31, 2015, 08:47:28 PM
Has to be a way you can improve your gardening situation and take advantage of that.
If not, buy local produce items when in season cheap, then dry, can or freeze for later use. This will be much better stuff than you will buy at any market.
From my experience, these markets that label everything "organic" are just overpriced groceries.
Learn to harvest and process wild fish and game. Seems like that stuff would be abundant in Maine?
We catch lots of fish and usually put an elk and a couple deer in the freezer every year.
This last time home, fishing became a part of our life and it is here to stay. As far as hunting goes, I'm interested in it for the cheap meat, but not interested in it for the upfront costs and the investment in time away from my family.
I truly wish there was a way to improve our gardening. We live in the perfect house, though. 75% of my annual pay, awesome neighborhood, it was undervalued so there is a solid amount of equity, it is small (970 sq ft) so maintenance costs are minimal, and it is a 1 mile walk from town. Pretty tough to compete with that in my area. Honestly, the one and only downside is that the growing potential is crap.
Post by: PFHC on August 31, 2015, 08:53:14 PM
I meant to add also, that I work differently than the people who advocate writing a list and sticking to it without browsing the store, and making as few trips as possible. It depends on your stores, but if they have a markdown section, you'll do better making more trips and not being confined to a list at all. That's my strategy, I let the grocery gods dictate what I should stock up on, and if something's not a deal and not a basic necessity, I will do without.
Minus the more trips part, this sounds like what were more likely to do. We don't do so well with "lists" and "planning things" and "sticking to them". We're much better and being spontaneous and creative with our food, so letting the grocery gods take the wheel sounds like a blast to me.
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Shopping that way, groceries for my husband and I (including toilet paper, shampoo, nonfood stuff) has totaled under $1300 for the entire last year.
$1300 for the YEAR!! How in the shit do you do that?! I honestly can't believe you eat healthy at that cost. It blows my mind. If that's the case, then I have SO much to learn.
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One other gardening note too - purslane.
Consider it looked into.
Post by: pbkmaine on August 31, 2015, 09:06:07 PM
Post by: PFHC on August 31, 2015, 09:12:02 PM
I'm gonna buck the trend on the gluten thing. I don't think there's any problem in deciding not to eat wheat at all - and I get that it's currently popular to avoid it, but I think that's because research has made people more aware of how it affects people.
Agreed. Just because something is popular, doesn't mean its not worthwhile. Working out is popular these days... and guess what? It's great for you. Cutting crappy food and eating less sugar is popular... good for ya. Simplifying, de-cluttering, minimalism, reading, being a dork, engineers, guitar music, being open minded and accepting, gay marriage, Legos, MMM, etc... all popular and trendy, all good things. :)
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There are other grains (rice, oats) that are relatively cheap and gluten free. -- The budget problems aren't from what you're opting out of, it seems to be more a problem with what you are opting into. I would look at, for example, the price of quinoa vs. brown rice, and decide if there really are nutrients in quinoa that you guys are lacking, or whether you're getting its strong points through other foods already in your diet.
This is good advice. We are looking into it, right now. BTW, that link is broken.
Post by: Bendigirl on August 31, 2015, 09:33:59 PM
I do use whey isolate protein powder for smoothies (I eat fruit, yummy fruit). Do you use this for protein?
Right now at our house it's tomato-a-thon. Tomato salads, tomato stir fry.....and we only have a few plants. I have cucumbers growing out of an old compost pile and lots of herbs. My spaghetti squash sucked this year but I have a few. They will also be on sale soon and I will stock up as they keep very well.
Our Walmart has a clearance section for produce. $1 a bag. I have been grabbing these when I see them....often a pineapple, pounds of nectarines, plums, peaches, apples....I would say each bag would retail for 15-20 dollars and I have never had to toss any of it and often wonder why they are clearing it. My freezer if full of frozen pineapple and papaya. I have spent very little on food for weeks as I plan my meals around these dollar bags. They have veggie ones too.
Our local university has a meat cutting program and a retail store that opens once a week during the school season. They sell only antibiotic free, hormone free, grass fed meat at decent prices. I stock up when they are open.
I have great friends who gift me peppers from their gardens....a fridge full!
Every year our costco has a great sale on organics. I buy cases of coconut milk, coconut oil....anything that will keep and enough for a year, until the next sale.
I am very interested in following your story.
Post by: PFHC on August 31, 2015, 09:41:37 PM
1. I bought less alcohol. Not only do I love wine and my husband loves beer, but we were having friends and/or family over weekly. I would always insist they didn't bring anything and would load up on beer and white and red wine, so I had options. This was unnecessary and now I have no problem responding to "what can we bring?" with "how about some beer/wine/other?" Additionally, we quit drinking (mostly) on weekdays.
Minimal alcohol here. Less than $50/year.
Quote
2. I became completely price conscious. I started really looking and internalizing what things actually cost so that I was better able to notice when things were actually a good deal. When they are, I stack up!We're going to do this.
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3. I bought a dozen glass containers and started buying all my staples in bulk - lentils, rice, beans, panko, noodles, etc.We got into buying this stuff a few years back, but did not make the time to do it. Too busy with the little kids and other ventures. Now that life has settled a bit, we've started doing this much more often and plan to do it even more.
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4. I quit buying ALL my produce organic. Instead, I stick to the dirty dozen list. Also, I always make sure I am USING the produce by making either fried rice or stir fry once a week. This way, the tiny bit of broccoli, green onions, etc that are on their way out are used in a meal that is a weekly family favorite.This is one of the big take-aways. Not everything needs to be organic. Dirty dozen is our new guide.
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10. If I am over budget, I quit buying things and rummage through the pantry and freezer, period.This is our plan. Also plan to institute 1 week a month of no grocery shopping. We have to shop our pantry.
Quote
Hope this helps! I think just being conscious of what you are spending your money on is the first step!Sure does! Thanks!!
Post by: PFHC on August 31, 2015, 09:43:37 PM
I've found my Instant Pot to be my best friend
We're going to look into finding one used, or doing a cost-benefit analysis on buying new. Looks like a cool device that eliminates the need for the two crock pots and pressure cooker we currently have.
Post by: PFHC on August 31, 2015, 09:56:44 PM
QuoteYou cannot have it all. At least one thing has to give. Either you accept that you food bill is high because of the way you like to eat and feed your family and there is not time. Or you change the way you eat and spend more time getting and making food. I do not believe you can have it both ways.
Basic truth right there.
I'm going to politely disagree. My take away from reading this slew of amazing responses is that what you're saying may not be the case. By making a few changes that I am typing up tonight, I think we can save money, continue to eat the way we want, and not hemorrhage away a ton of time.
Time will tell. :)
Post by: PFHC on August 31, 2015, 10:03:22 PM
This is awesome PFHC! I for one would love to see your plan and your next month's results. As this is a perennial topic on these forums, I think other future readers would benefit too. And the twist of seeing realistically what your very busy wife can manage is important to see too. I do agree with the earlier poster who said it is ok to cut yourselves some slack when life circumstances are not ideal. Try out some strategies and find a balance that you and your family will be comfortable with.
That said, I hope you and your wife can really see the difference between shopping for quinoa, sushi rice, pancake mix, and avocadoes, vs your prices on healthy, seasonal basics like apples and eggs. I'm hoping that your wife will find what I did, which is that my stress levels about both healthy eating AND budget came way down when I went from being a foodie who wanted to follow every health trend to going back to basic, healthy, fairly simply prepared food. Like someone said earlier, find maybe 10 meals that are simple, cheap, easy to adapt, and that everyone likes. There's a reason our grandparents had meatloaf mondays, pork chop tuesdays, etc! :)
We definitely have a rotation: eggs + potatoes + veg, pasta with veg (and maybe a can of tuna added), stir-fry, soup/stew, pizza, burritos, pork roast... any of these can be made with whatever variety of ingredients are priced well that week, and those differences make up the variety in the diet. All will provide tasty lunch leftovers, and all take the pressure off your wife worrying about what to make for dinner each day.
BTW--I hear people getting great deals on the bulk baking supplies online. Pancake mix is a bit silly, IMHO. It's just flour, baking powder/soda, sugar and salt; you still have to add the milk, eggs, and oil...Find a reliable recipe and make up a batch yourselves for the cupboard if it's that much of a hassle to do each time.
Good luck! Your attitude is awesome and I'd love to see the results!
What great ideas. Hadn't even thought about the pancake mix. We don't eat much, and that makes it even sillier. We have all the staples for making it in our cupboard already... duh!
Thanks for the encouragement. This stuff is fun as all get out to me! :)
Post by: PFHC on August 31, 2015, 11:37:46 PM
When you are home maybe take a couple hours and make a few freezer recipes wth your wife and kids.Great idea! On the action list.
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I would try and cut the budget back slowly.Thanks. That's the plan. :)
Post by: PFHC on August 31, 2015, 11:48:42 PM
I am really enjoying this thread.Me too. :)
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I eat gluten free due to severe wheat and gluten allergies. I used to try to make "bread" but hated every recipe. Now I just don't bother. I don't even think to replace bread, I am quite happy without. I find most gluten free products just nasty.We went through this for about 4 years. Finally, 4 years ago, we decided to scrap any gluten free bread all together. Our only GF thing we have somewhat often is pancakes, which we will now be making from on our own. Aside from that, we now eat bread maybe 5 times per year. Since it's a treat, we get it from an awesome hip little local sandwich shop in the form of one of their epic sandwiches. :)
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I do use whey isolate protein powder for smoothies (I eat fruit, yummy fruit). Do you use this for protein?My wife used a protein supplement for a while when she was getting into weights. But she is very allergic to anything that is milk based, so she has always avoided whey. She used a raw veggie based protein supplement. No longer though. We find we get more than enough with nuts, beans, and the occasional meat.
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Our local university has a meat cutting program and a retail store that opens once a week during the school season. They sell only antibiotic free, hormone free, grass fed meat at decent prices. I stock up when they are open.JEALOUS.
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Every year our costco has a great sale on organics. I buy cases of coconut milk, coconut oil....anything that will keep and enough for a year, until the next sale.Jealous, again. The nearest Costco is 5 hours away!
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I am very interested in following your story.Thanks, it fun to collaborate with all of you on how to make it better. :)
Post by: Monkey Uncle on September 01, 2015, 04:36:45 AM
Then drop in 5-6 raspberry bushes (I like Heritage, if it will grow in Maine, I highly suggest it for raspberries) and a couple of blackberry bushes. Maybe drop in some asparagus.
Just quit maintaining a patch of your garden and see what comes in. There is bound to be at least one wild species of Rubus (blackberry and raspberry genus) that grows well in your area. Wild Rubus are very prolific in taking over cleared areas, and they require no maintenance outside of controlling tree seedlings that try to invade. Less work than planting cultivars, and more likely to succeed. The downside is that it will take a few years for the berry production to really get going. If you're lucky, you might also get a species of wild blueberry or huckleberry coming in, too. Blueberries and huckleberries love crappy soil. I have a section of my yard that I've let go wild like this. This year we had several raspberry and blackberry pies during the season, and we froze multiple gallons of both berries. The berries will require time to harvest on a daily or every other day basis, but you'd have that same time investment with planted cultivars.
Post by: PFHC on September 01, 2015, 04:41:45 AM
The Grocery Game Plan!(rev 1)
Shopping:
- Shop for price, not product. Go online and get deals for the coming week.
- Reduce organic purchasing:
- Rarely buy the dirty dozen
- Do buy the clean fifteen, if price is good
- Eat seasonally, get what is the best price: PYO berries and freeze instead of packages frozen berries, see list for seasonal produce
- If something is cheap, buy tons and preserve
- Source dry goods online (nuts, beans, grains, baking needs)
- Shop for bulk needs at Sams, Trader Joes, Whole Paycheck, etc.
Eating tips:
- Reduce fruit consumption. Carrots, cucumbers, nuts for snacks.
- Eat every leftover. No exceptions.
- Add more bulk products to our meals. Let the eggs, grains, legumes, tubers carry the meal, add veggies for micronutrients, and fish or meat for flavor.
- USE WHAT WE HAVE! Applesauce, canned tomatoes, pickles, dried herbs, dry beans, rice, lentils, soup mixes, frozen meals/soups/stews.
Remove from our diet:
- Raw milk
- Sun butter
- OG red peppers
- Chips
- Have a weekly preparation/meal planning day.
- Chopping veggies
- snack packets
- stews/soups/chili
- bulk grains, legumes
- sushi rolls
- nut butters
- potato/sweet potato wedges
- Once a hitch have a frugal week. Shop the pantry and skip the store.
- Once a hitch home, have a big frozen dinner day to make quick and easy meals for when Im gone.
- Research CSAs in the area, do a cost benefit analysis. Learn their techniques, IPM, organic, ethical.
- Price out farmers markets for comparison.
- purslane, berries, herbs, greens, garlic, sweet potatoes, beans.
Post by: PFHC on September 01, 2015, 04:48:16 AM
Then drop in 5-6 raspberry bushes (I like Heritage, if it will grow in Maine, I highly suggest it for raspberries) and a couple of blackberry bushes. Maybe drop in some asparagus.
Just quit maintaining a patch of your garden and see what comes in. There is bound to be at least one wild species of Rubus (blackberry and raspberry genus) that grows well in your area. Wild Rubus are very prolific in taking over cleared areas, and they require no maintenance outside of controlling tree seedlings that try to invade. Less work than planting cultivars, and more likely to succeed. The downside is that it will take a few years for the berry production to really get going. If you're lucky, you might also get a species of wild blueberry or huckleberry coming in, too. Blueberries and huckleberries love crappy soil. I have a section of my yard that I've let go wild like this. This year we had several raspberry and blackberry pies during the season, and we froze multiple gallons of both berries. The berries will require time to harvest on a daily or every other day basis, but you'd have that same time investment with planted cultivars.
I have three blackberry bushes, and two blueberries that are on year two. We got 6 blackberries this year, no blueberries, yet. :) Hoping more will come in as time passes. I have a friend with raspberries, so we can get some plants from her. Plan to plant a couple arctic kiwis... supposed to do 50 lbs of fruit a year! Also some apple trees, which I believe can be grown from cuttings... not too sure.
So many plans! :)
Post by: kimmarg on September 01, 2015, 05:43:56 AM
Thanks so much for the pointers for CSA and PYO berries. Unfortunately, both are much too far away to be practical for us. I am looking into something closer. Again, thank you!Gotcha! maine is a big state, and I'm far south.
My other idea is to try freezer meals. Do one big shop for the month (at SAMs or wherever) and then do a big cooking day. This would fit well with you being at sea for 3-4 weeks. While your home, help shop and cook and then your wife has a lot of easy meals ready to go so no temptation to buy more. This really cut our grocery budget when we did it. In fact I'm headed out to the 'big hannaford' today For a big shop. I use the website www.onceamonthmeals.com and pay for a membership. You can view the recipies for free but I find the grocery lists and chopping instructions are where you really save time and the process overall saves me more than the membership costs. The shopping list and then prep list puts all recipies together. Got three things with onions? Chop once, enough for all of them. They have a 'whole foods' menu as well as paleo options which sounds like what you eat.
Post by: fitfrugalfab on September 01, 2015, 06:57:33 AM
Post by: RelaxedGal on September 01, 2015, 07:05:55 AM
My 2 cents: I'm reading Cut Your Grocery Bill In Half (http://www.amazon.com/Your-Grocery-Americas-Cheapest-Family/dp/1400202833/) by the Economides. It is a more in-depth version of the tips so far, plus a few not mentioned. E.g. buy the bagged apples/carrots/clementines because they're usually cheaper than loose, and the labeled weight is a minimum so you can weight several and buy the heaviest bag (after checking for bruises, of course). I think it's a good reference and/or additional support for you & your wife.
I'm really impressed that she makes it work as a single mom while you're away. I only do that once in a blue moon when my husband goes somewhere and though I only have 1 kid, it's still chaos!
Post by: Jakejake on September 01, 2015, 07:10:16 AM
Remove from our diet:Hold up - Chips! If you can make a veggie lentil soup, you can make lentil chips. You just smash the thick soup around in a dehydrator and score it. I'm sure you could do that in an oven too. Mine (attached photo) are ugly, but soooo tasty and high in protein. You can also season vegetable slices of all sorts (zucchinis, beets, etc) and dry into chips.
- Raw milk
- Sun butter
- OG red peppers
- Chips
Also, if you are doing trader joe and whole foods, you should be checking this blog for their weekly coupon/rebate/sales matchups before each trip: http://allnaturalsavings.com/ I don't go to either of those stores very often (longer bike ride), but every now and then I'll cruise over to get free organic sweet potato chips or tempeh, etc. Click on the store matchups link. (I see tempeh is free again today!)
Post by: backyardfeast on September 01, 2015, 09:29:10 AM
Looking forward to seeing next months results!
Post by: mskyle on September 01, 2015, 10:28:23 AM
But we also have a lot of cheap, tasty, easy snacks that we love, like popcorn, roasted chickpeas, and pan-fried rice cakes. We don't each much fruit, which I think helps a lot with the food bill, but the fruit I do buy I'm pretty price conscious about - cantaloupe is super-cheap this time of year, apples will be dirt cheap in a month or two, orange prices drop over the winter. And apples and oranges keep in the fridge for weeks.
It sounds like you're in a pretty rural area, which can make groceries very expensive, so definitely think about making a few stock-up trips a year. Head down to Portland or wherever is easy for you, and stock up on things that won't go bad. You might even be in the range where keeping a chest freezer makes sense (my uninformed impression is that a lot of people end up spending more on electricity than they save on food, but YMMV).
Post by: NeverLost on September 01, 2015, 10:33:55 AM
Post by: mm1970 on September 01, 2015, 10:43:29 AM
Quote
King Arthur GF Pancake mix 15 oz $4.89
Bananas 2.68 lbs $1.31 ($0.49/lb)
Watermelon 1 $4.99
Avacados 6 $5.94
OG Bananas 2.4 lbs $1.90 ($0.79/lb)
OG peaches 1.87 lbs $7.46 ($4/lb)
Red grapefruit 5 lbs $4.99 ($1/lb)
Italia lime juice 4.2 oz $1.29
OG Red bell peppers 2 $4.49 ($2.25 EACH)
OG greens mix 11 oz $5.99 ($8.71/lb)
Free range eggs 12 $5.00
Apples - non-organic 2.3 lbs $1.49 (0.65/lb)
You've probably figured it out already, but I've highlighted some things, like the cost per pound of some of your stuff. More bananas, fewer peaches. And the greens mix, yikes!
Post by: mm1970 on September 01, 2015, 10:49:21 AM
You can save *some* money for sure. I don't think anyone is necessarily saying that. With a little bit of work, you can save money by substituting some things for other things, and increasing the frequency of the cheaper foods.QuoteYou cannot have it all. At least one thing has to give. Either you accept that you food bill is high because of the way you like to eat and feed your family and there is not time. Or you change the way you eat and spend more time getting and making food. I do not believe you can have it both ways.
Basic truth right there.
I'm going to politely disagree. My take away from reading this slew of amazing responses is that what you're saying may not be the case. By making a few changes that I am typing up tonight, I think we can save money, continue to eat the way we want, and not hemorrhage away a ton of time.
Time will tell. :)
However, time will always be a factor if you want to make major savings. For me, I am cutting our bill in half this year, but time is a HUGE factor. I have to wash and prep every vegetable to do this. It is an incredible amount of time. And also shop at more than one store.
For example: your greens cost from the earlier post. There are at least three ways to fix this:
1. Don't eat greens, that's $8.71/lb saved right there
2. Don't buy organic, save half
3. Buy organic (or not), and wash and spin them yourself. (This is what I do, because I have a CSA, but that means I wash and spin 2-3 very large heads of organic lettuce/ greens a week, and each head fills the salad spinner 2x.)
So for #3, I'm getting about 2 to 3 lb of greens for about $3 (or about $1 to $1.50 a pound), but at the expense of about 50-60 minutes of work.
Post by: mm1970 on September 01, 2015, 10:54:32 AM
Quote
Aside from that, we now eat bread maybe 5 times per year. Since it's a treat, we get it from an awesome hip little local sandwich shop in the form of one of their epid sandwiches. :)
This is a very solid plan.
Ah, sunbutter. I stopped buying that too. But it's so good.
I still treat myself to local fresh almond butter 2x a year. (I mean, you need SOME treats.)
Organic red peppers do go on sale, can you stock up and freeze? Really depends on if you are cooking them or eating them fresh.
Post by: kimmarg on September 01, 2015, 11:32:46 AM
You might even be in the range where keeping a chest freezer makes sense (my uninformed impression is that a lot of people end up spending more on electricity than they save on food, but YMMV).
My chest freezer has paid for itself many times over. Initial cost $150. Yearly cost in electricity $25. (Estimated from tag, the difference in electric in the month after I turned it on was too small to notice). Say today, chicken was $1.50/lb cheaper. I buy 10lbs and freeze and have already made up for 2/3 the operating cost this year. Plus I freeze lots of things I grow or get for free. Totally worth it!
Post by: Alenzia on September 01, 2015, 12:27:55 PM
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2011/06/18/137249264/organic-pesticides-not-an-oxymoron
Post by: Giro on September 01, 2015, 12:29:03 PM
I saw gluten-free corn meal the other day. tee hee hee It was 2.25 times more expensive than the 100% corn meal bag next to it.
Just wow.
Post by: Bracken_Joy on September 01, 2015, 12:52:22 PM
The organic marketing ploy was an amazing idea. The gluten-free fad was equally genius I wish I had thought of either of those.
I saw gluten-free corn meal the other day. tee hee hee It was 2.25 times more expensive than the 100% corn meal bag next to it.
Just wow.
Perhaps instead of being derisive of the nutritional paradigms on many on this board, you contribute to the discussion at hand in a constructive and inclusive way? Thanks!
Post by: Giro on September 01, 2015, 01:14:00 PM
The organic marketing ploy was an amazing idea. The gluten-free fad was equally genius I wish I had thought of either of those.
I saw gluten-free corn meal the other day. tee hee hee It was 2.25 times more expensive than the 100% corn meal bag next to it.
Just wow.
Perhaps instead of being derisive of the nutritional paradigms on many on this board, you contribute to the discussion at hand in a constructive and inclusive way? Thanks!
Sorry, I thought that was obvious. I'll be more direct. Don't fall for the organic marketing ploy and just buy in season, cheap, local fruits and veggies and wash them in the sink.
Post by: KMMK on September 01, 2015, 01:16:02 PM
The organic marketing ploy was an amazing idea. The gluten-free fad was equally genius I wish I had thought of either of those.
I saw gluten-free corn meal the other day. tee hee hee It was 2.25 times more expensive than the 100% corn meal bag next to it.
Just wow.
This type of option and labeling is extremely important for people with Celiac disease. It's too bad that the prices are so much higher, but I'm sure my sister would rather pay more than get cancer and/or continue starving to death as she was before her diagnosis.
Post by: TRBeck on September 01, 2015, 01:18:26 PM
Cornmeal is gluten-free. Buying special gluten-free cornmeal means you are paying a massive premium for the guarantee that no accidental gluten from all the other stuff processed in the same facility made it into the cornmeal. Instead, you could:
1. buy ordinary cornmeal and accept the negligible possibility of a negligible amount of gluten making it into the serving you will eat at a sitting
2. buy cornmeal from a place that never mills anything else (I get cornmeal at my regular grocery store that comes from a local-ish mill that only does corn. It's not "gluten-free," except that it is, but not everyone has this option)
3. eat corn. or rice. or millet. or some other gluten-free grain else that's cheap and easy to prepare and fills the same dietary needs.
4. stop buying grain and flour altogether and eat potatoes because they're cheap and easy to prepare and have minimal environmental impact
5. ask serious questions about the reasons so many people who are not gluten-intolerant so strenuously avoid gluten - i.e. why be religious about it if it's not a very serious health issue for you, which for most people, it isn't.
I support folks who want to avoid gluten, but it borders on religion for some to the point that they must maintain absolute gluten-free purity, and outside of celiac cases, total purity simply isn't necessary. If it is necessary for you, well, you have options besides a 225% markup on cornmeal.
Post by: TRBeck on September 01, 2015, 01:24:48 PM
I have a family of 4. Two kids, 3 and 6 years old. Here's what we do:
1. Make everything from scratch. Pancake mix, pasta sauce, everything.
2. Eat beans. Dry beans are 25lbs./$13 at Costco.
3. Shop at Costco. $50 lbs. basmati rice for $32. 50 lbs. of long-grain rice for $15.
4. Shop loss-leader sales. I have dozens of red peppers cut into strips in my freezer, purchased for 33 cents/ea. over the summer. Lots of other fruits and veggies we stock up on this way and then freeze or process and freeze.
5. Make frequent grocery store trips (1 a week) and infrequent Costco trips (4-6/year) to take advantage of loss leaders and avoid overbuying stuff we won't eat quickly.
6. Get grass-fed meat directly from the farm in quantity.
7. Accept compromises occasionally w/r/t organics, knowing that we will reach a point financially where we won't have to.
8. Use exercise, strenuous living, and consumption of large amounts of veggies and fruits as insurance, even if not everything is organic.
We spend $125/week for groceries, and that's all-in including toilet paper, tissues, etc. We did $100 when we were paying down debt.
Post by: KMMK on September 01, 2015, 01:29:54 PM
KMMK, I understand what you're saying. I think Giro's comment was probably directed at the 99% of the population that does not have celiac.
Cornmeal is gluten-free. Buying special gluten-free cornmeal means you are paying a massive premium for the guarantee that no accidental gluten from all the other stuff processed in the same facility made it into the cornmeal. Instead, you could:
1. buy ordinary cornmeal and accept the negligible possibility of a negligible amount of gluten making it into the serving you will eat at a sitting
2. buy cornmeal from a place that never mills anything else (I get cornmeal at my regular grocery store that comes from a local-ish mill that only does corn. It's not "gluten-free," except that it is, but not everyone has this option)
3. eat corn. or rice. or millet. or some other gluten-free grain else that's cheap and easy to prepare and fills the same dietary needs.
4. stop buying grain and flour altogether and eat potatoes because they're cheap and easy to prepare and have minimal environmental impact
5. ask serious questions about the reasons so many people who are not gluten-intolerant so strenuously avoid gluten - i.e. why be religious about it if it's not a very serious health issue for you, which for most people, it isn't.
I support folks who want to avoid gluten, but it borders on religion for some to the point that they must maintain absolute gluten-free purity, and outside of celiac cases, total purity simply isn't necessary. If it is necessary for you, well, you have options besides a 225% markup on cornmeal.
I get what you're saying, but personally I haven't met anyone who avoids gluten just for the hell of it. It's super annoying to do so. I do know such people exist. But I'm also happy that safe options are available for people who really need them. I'm just sensitive to something being mocked as a "fad" or marketing gimmick, when there is a legitimate, albeit small, need for such products. I guess the drug manufacturers are used to making money off of people's illnesses so why shouldn't food manufacturers do the same? Lots of reasons for annoyance with this whole topic that's for sure.
Post by: TRBeck on September 01, 2015, 01:34:32 PM
Ah, I see you're in Canada. Land of common sense. Come down to Texas and you'll meet plenty of people avoiding gluten for the hell of it, or because Crossfit told them to, or because it's hip, at least in urban and suburban areas. I hear you on the health issues, and I'm sensitive to the fact that people have specific dietary needs. I was vegan for a while, which was not medically necessary, and I still got very annoyed when my options were taken away.KMMK, I understand what you're saying. I think Giro's comment was probably directed at the 99% of the population that does not have celiac.
Cornmeal is gluten-free. Buying special gluten-free cornmeal means you are paying a massive premium for the guarantee that no accidental gluten from all the other stuff processed in the same facility made it into the cornmeal. Instead, you could:
1. buy ordinary cornmeal and accept the negligible possibility of a negligible amount of gluten making it into the serving you will eat at a sitting
2. buy cornmeal from a place that never mills anything else (I get cornmeal at my regular grocery store that comes from a local-ish mill that only does corn. It's not "gluten-free," except that it is, but not everyone has this option)
3. eat corn. or rice. or millet. or some other gluten-free grain else that's cheap and easy to prepare and fills the same dietary needs.
4. stop buying grain and flour altogether and eat potatoes because they're cheap and easy to prepare and have minimal environmental impact
5. ask serious questions about the reasons so many people who are not gluten-intolerant so strenuously avoid gluten - i.e. why be religious about it if it's not a very serious health issue for you, which for most people, it isn't.
I support folks who want to avoid gluten, but it borders on religion for some to the point that they must maintain absolute gluten-free purity, and outside of celiac cases, total purity simply isn't necessary. If it is necessary for you, well, you have options besides a 225% markup on cornmeal.
I get what you're saying, but personally I haven't met anyone who avoids gluten just for the hell of it. It's super annoying to do so. I do know such people exist.
Post by: PFHC on September 01, 2015, 02:09:25 PM
Oh yeah, to the OP: lots of good stuff here.Great tips TRBeck. :) Unfortunately, as mentioned before, the nearest Costco is 5 hours away. We have shopped at a Costco before and they definitely have the best deals on bulk items. That said, Sam's does pretty well, and that's what we've got.
I have a family of 4. Two kids, 3 and 6 years old. Here's what we do:
1. Make everything from scratch. Pancake mix, pasta sauce, everything.
2. Eat beans. Dry beans are 25lbs./$13 at Costco.
3. Shop at Costco. $50 lbs. basmati rice for $32. 50 lbs. of long-grain rice for $15.
4. Shop loss-leader sales. I have dozens of red peppers cut into strips in my freezer, purchased for 33 cents/ea. over the summer. Lots of other fruits and veggies we stock up on this way and then freeze or process and freeze.
5. Make frequent grocery store trips (1 a week) and infrequent Costco trips (4-6/year) to take advantage of loss leaders and avoid overbuying stuff we won't eat quickly.
6. Get grass-fed meat directly from the farm in quantity.
7. Accept compromises occasionally w/r/t organics, knowing that we will reach a point financially where we won't have to.
8. Use exercise, strenuous living, and consumption of large amounts of veggies and fruits as insurance, even if not everything is organic.
We spend $125/week for groceries, and that's all-in including toilet paper, tissues, etc. We did $100 when we were paying down debt.
Post by: PFHC on September 01, 2015, 02:28:58 PM
You can save *some* money for sure. I don't think anyone is necessarily saying that. With a little bit of work, you can save money by substituting some things for other things, and increasing the frequency of the cheaper foods.QuoteYou cannot have it all. At least one thing has to give. Either you accept that you food bill is high because of the way you like to eat and feed your family and there is not time. Or you change the way you eat and spend more time getting and making food. I do not believe you can have it both ways.
Basic truth right there.
I'm going to politely disagree. My take away from reading this slew of amazing responses is that what you're saying may not be the case. By making a few changes that I am typing up tonight, I think we can save money, continue to eat the way we want, and not hemorrhage away a ton of time.
Time will tell. :)
Our plan is to make significant savings, not major. We're starting with a goal of 10% in six months and a final goal of $1000/mo adjusted for inflation. I know to many here, this sounds like luxury -- and it is -- our only one.
We live in a small house bought at 75% of my salary, we have no debt, and we currently save 40-60% of my salary. We can financially support this luxury and still hit FI in my early 40s.
As I have mentioned above, health is our ultimate concern, and time is a premium with my wife being a single mom while I'm away from home for 6 months of the year. I think our plan optimizes the above; i.e. the maximum savings with the minimum time invested. That's exactly what we're looking to do... and that's exciting! :)
Post by: partgypsy on September 01, 2015, 02:34:33 PM
We try to buy organic milk and butter and in a haphazard way organic (primarily organic greens, not paying so much attention to all the other produce). I don't think they even sell organic potatoes at the store we go to.
Will be interested in hearing your progress.
Post by: relena on September 01, 2015, 02:52:18 PM
I used to buy tons of yogurt since my husband and kids love yogurt. They would go through almost 2 quarts a week! A lot of it was single containers. I have since bought a machine and make it once or twice a week now. I put it in some small 6 oz jars that i had laying around.
Post by: PFHC on September 01, 2015, 03:05:48 PM
All I can say, is I am so glad there is at least 1 other family out there that spends more money on groceries than we do. But I feel I learned a lot from this thread. Maybe I will make another go out of trimming the grocery budget. I haven't done this in a long time, but might be time again to collect the grocery receipts and see what I am spending on for a month or so.Ha-ha! Well, glad our irresponsible spending had an upside. :)
We try to buy organic milk and butter and in a haphazard way organic (primarily organic greens, not paying so much attention to all the other produce). I don't think they even sell organic potatoes at the store we go to.
Will be interested in hearing your progress.
I'm stoked to see the results. I know they are going to be good. I'm so charged up about this... it's awesome.
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Post by: PFHC on September 01, 2015, 03:23:24 PM
Have you tried making your own kefir and yogurt?Yes! It is awesome. We didn't use a machine, just good old ambient heat in the house. But, nobody in my family reacts well to processed milk, whether organic or not. The only milk we've found the kids and wife can tolerate is raw.
I used to buy tons of yogurt since my husband and kids love yogurt. They would go through almost 2 quarts a week! A lot of it was single containers. I have since bought a machine and make it once or twice a week now. I put it in some small 6 oz jars that i had laying around.
As mentioned in some of my previous comments, we went 7 years without milk and were in supreme health. Since raw milk is $14/gallon here, we've decided to forgo.
When FI is reached, maybe we'll get a goat or cow and do it ourselves! I would love that more than anything. :)
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Post by: wenchsenior on September 01, 2015, 03:59:48 PM
All I can say, is I am so glad there is at least 1 other family out there that spends more money on groceries than we do. But I feel I learned a lot from this thread. Maybe I will make another go out of trimming the grocery budget. I haven't done this in a long time, but might be time again to collect the grocery receipts and see what I am spending on for a month or so.
We try to buy organic milk and butter and in a haphazard way organic (primarily organic greens, not paying so much attention to all the other produce). I don't think they even sell organic potatoes at the store we go to.
Will be interested in hearing your progress.
I'm pretty sure my household wins the grocery spending/person contest, but I am also making incremental progress and it's encouraging enough that I want to keep plugging along.
Post by: Bendigirl on September 01, 2015, 04:12:57 PM
It was not until I moved and found the most amazing doctor that believed me. First we did the celiac tests, all negative. I then did some research and saw that there were blood tests for allergies and they were now covered by our medical coverage ( in Canada not everything is covered). Met with the doctor and she ordered the tests. Came back highly allergic to,wheat and to gluten(along with mild allergies to eggs and corn)
I cried for days...both sad and happy. The thought of not having my beloved bread again...so sad, losing the itchy and overall malaise mad me happy.
Since then I really did cry at a restaurant when the bread basket came out (true story), I can no longer bake (if you have cat allergies it's like that with the itchy eyes, sneezing....), but I feel amazing! I lied, I do bake now but with a full face mask and allergy pills in me....for my sweet hubby, but rarely.
Why would anyone go gluten free on purpose? I keep hoping I grow out of this;)
Even though corn and oats are gluten free they can be cross contaminated with wheat. For those who get really sick the gluten free guarantee is a must.
Post by: bb11 on September 01, 2015, 04:33:31 PM
Post by: Faraday on September 01, 2015, 06:10:59 PM
Just wanted to chime in a wee bit on the gluten thing.
...
really sick the gluten free guarantee is a must.
WTF, people here think "gluten free" is an effing fad? I have one buddy (and his daughter is worse), who can die if he ingested enough wheat, he's that sensitive to it. He and his daughter are gluten-free as a matter of survival.
I went gluten-free as a side-effect of going keto and it's been a godsend for me. I'm not gluten intolerant but you ought to see how wheat-based breads make my belly inflamed and swollen. You can literally see it happen in a 24 hour time span, and it takes days or weeks for me to get rid of it.
On the other hand, I can now bake one hell of an awesome low-carb gluten-free pizza. Make the crust out of mozzarella, cream cheese, almond flour and one egg. Got the recipe off ruled.me, the most awesome foods website in the world.
Post by: KMMK on September 01, 2015, 06:22:07 PM
Just wanted to chime in a wee bit on the gluten thing.
...
really sick the gluten free guarantee is a must.
WTF, people here think "gluten free" is an effing fad? I have one buddy (and his daughter is worse), who can die if he ingested enough wheat, he's that sensitive to it. He and his daughter are gluten-free as a matter of survival.
I went gluten-free as a side-effect of going keto and it's been a godsend for me. I'm not gluten intolerant but you ought to see how wheat-based breads make my belly inflamed and swollen. You can literally see it happen in a 24 hour time span, and it takes days or weeks for me to get rid of it.
On the other hand, I can now bake one hell of an awesome low-carb gluten-free pizza. Make the crust out of mozzarella, cream cheese, almond flour and one egg. Got the recipe off ruled.me, the most awesome foods website in the world.
Yes, it's hard to read. I know it's a fad for some people, but when you are gluten-intolerant (such as I am), finally figured it out, finally have your life and health back, and have significant and obvious reactions to small amounts, reading others dismissing that as "just a fad" makes me cranky.
Post by: Bendigirl on September 01, 2015, 07:04:34 PM
http://detoxinista.com/2015/07/how-to-make-sunflower-seed-butter-oil-free/
I have not tried it but remembered seeing this posted a few weeks ago. I think hulled sunflowers are pretty inexpensive.
And I really hate when people question my wheat free ways....
Post by: Bendigirl on September 01, 2015, 07:48:37 PM
On the other hand, I can now bake one hell of an awesome low-carb gluten-free pizza. Make the crust out of mozzarella, cream cheese, almond flour and one egg. Got the recipe off ruled.me, the most awesome foods website in the world.
]
Thanks for the website.....I just may give the crust a try.
Post by: PFHC on September 01, 2015, 08:26:12 PM
I'm really impressed that she makes it work as a single mom while you're away. I only do that once in a blue moon when my husband goes somewhere and though I only have 1 kid, it's still chaos!I passed your comment along to her. She really appreciates the recognition. :)
She's an awesome gal and is the only reason our life works as well as it does. I got lucky when I met her. :)
Post by: PFHC on September 01, 2015, 08:28:45 PM
Awesome plan, PFHC! Just a last thought about the gardening, because it really sounds like sun is your issue and you've given this a strong effort with disappointing results. It sounds like you are really happy with the house, but this is why community garden plots exist! So people without access to a good sunny plot can still grow some food. It sounds like you're in a small community, but if there isn't a community garden nearby, find out if anyone is interested in starting one. Some folks will also pair up with someone nearby that has a free, sunny yard that they're not using--you get a garden plot and share some of the veg. I know it's a bigger committment when it's not outside your door, and may not work while your kids are small, but might be worth keeping in mind for down the road...I have daydreamed about starting one myself. It would be awesome. We have some friends with a wonderful sunny yard, but the drive is a bit too much. Definitely in the ol' thinker. :)
Quote
Looking forward to seeing next months results!Thanks! Me too!
Post by: PFHC on September 01, 2015, 08:33:20 PM
He eats a lot of chips...We're just cutting store bought chips and using home made potato wedges instead. The kids love them and they are about a billion times cheaper.
Quote
But we also have a lot of cheap, tasty, easy snacks that we love, like popcorn, roasted chickpeas, and pan-fried rice cakes.These sound amazing!
Quote
It sounds like you're in a pretty rural area, which can make groceries very expensive, so definitely think about making a few stock-up trips a year. Head down to Portland or wherever is easy for you, and stock up on things that won't go bad. You might even be in the range where keeping a chest freezer makes sense.We got an awesome upright chest freezer from my parents when they sold their house. We have it stocked with soups, frozen blueberries, re-fried beans, baked beans, broth, and haddock. We love the big stock up idea. When my wife picks me up or drops me off at the jetport, we plan to do it then.
Post by: PFHC on September 01, 2015, 08:45:49 PM
Your plan looks great and I think you'll see a huge difference to your grocery bills! I personally think you will have a difficult time with a complete non-shopping week. You are very fruit and veggie centric with your spending and (at least in my house) most produce won't make it a second week. I think you may have more luck dividing your spending into 2 week segments. This works best for us. So I give us $250/2 weeks. This week is a great example, I spent a whopping $200 of our budget. I did get a ton of overdue staples and food for a birthday party we are hosting but I know that when I go shopping again on Sunday I have only $50 left. A huge portion of that will be spent on filling our fruit basket.This is a great point and wonderful idea as an alternative! I added it to the GGP and will talk it over with my wife.
Post by: PFHC on September 01, 2015, 08:47:22 PM
Ya, after reading through all of your comments, it was almost embarrassing to post this receipt. But, it is true to how we used to shop, so I went with it. It is very apparent to me now the problems with it.QuoteKing Arthur GF Pancake mix 15 oz $4.89
Bananas 2.68 lbs $1.31 ($0.49/lb)
Watermelon 1 $4.99
Avacados 6 $5.94
OG Bananas 2.4 lbs $1.90 ($0.79/lb)
OG peaches 1.87 lbs $7.46 ($4/lb)
Red grapefruit 5 lbs $4.99 ($1/lb)
Italia lime juice 4.2 oz $1.29
OG Red bell peppers 2 $4.49 ($2.25 EACH)
OG greens mix 11 oz $5.99 ($8.71/lb)
Free range eggs 12 $5.00
Apples - non-organic 2.3 lbs $1.49 (0.65/lb)
You've probably figured it out already, but I've highlighted some things, like the cost per pound of some of your stuff. More bananas, fewer peaches. And the greens mix, yikes!
Post by: PFHC on September 01, 2015, 08:54:31 PM
I still treat myself to local fresh almond butter 2x a year. (I mean, you need SOME treats.)That would be a good option. Both our kids absolutely love fresh red peppers, so that's why we get them. But, they love them cooked as well, so getting them bulk, freezing, and vacuum sealing them would work well. but, most likely, we're going to skip the OG red peppers. The price is too damn high! :)
Organic red peppers do go on sale, can you stock up and freeze? Really depends on if you are cooking them or eating them fresh.
Post by: PFHC on September 01, 2015, 09:08:36 PM
...I got itchy, really itchy. No one knew why. It went on for years, I saw so many doctors, and even the allergy doctors didn't find it. They sucked btw.This is exactly what my wife went through 8 years ago. Nights without end where she was crying and couldn't sleep because of the body wide itching. Trips to the emergency room because 90% of her body was covered in a raw bleeding rash. It was horrid. Got the tests, cut dairy and gluten, got her life back. I was 220 lbs and had chronic sinus infections. Followed her diet, and guess what? Lost 40 lbs and the sinus infections disappeared.
I don't want this fun positive thread to dive into whineypants land, so I'll say this, let the naysayers say nay, that's their right. No need to argue with them, we're not here to address that. There's a forum post for that somewhere else. :) Let those of us who have benefited from the lifestyle change carry on.
NOW, back to kicking the shit out of the high cost of eating healthy!
Post by: PFHC on September 01, 2015, 09:12:46 PM
Make your own sunbutter
http://detoxinista.com/2015/07/how-to-make-sunflower-seed-butter-oil-free/
I have not tried it but remembered seeing this posted a few weeks ago. I think hulled sunflowers are pretty inexpensive.
We did this a few years ago. $3.99/lb bulk if my memory serves me correctly. Made it in our Vitamix. It was awesome! Stopped it because of the time thing. But with the 5 year old in Kindergarten, I think we're going to have much more free time. Maybe we'll bring this back!
Post by: backyardfeast on September 01, 2015, 09:51:16 PM
I say this as someone who does grow and process a ton of homestead-based food (probably80% of our veg and more than 50% of our fruit, plus we have chickens for eggs, eat the roosters, trade eggs with friends for fish and game, crab and fish occasionally), shop in bulk, buy meat direct from the farmer, fish wholesale direct in season, and buy the cheapest staples at Costco (cheese for us, mostly), are foodies and prioritize food and health to an absurd level. And we're in Canada, where food costs more generally. We still buy bread at the fancy bakery down the street ($40/mo!), and we do the raw milk in season ($18/gallon here! But we only need one a week, and mostly make yogurt with it, but $72/mo!). So we're totally ridiculous and we know it. If we needed to cut back, there's lots of luxury here.
BUT! Our grocery budget (for 2) is between 350-500 month. If we didn't have all these habits, there's no way we could eat the way we do--we just couldn't afford to pay retail for the quality of food we eat, and some things you can't even buy in the store if you wanted to! We'd easily be spending $1500/mo? So even if you don't have the time and energy to do all of this, and have the money so that you don't have to, I think you'll be amazed at how much of a difference getting out of the "buying this list of things whatever the price" habit makes. Like MMM, you may find great satisfaction and health at a much lower price point than you might imagine.
Have I mentioned that I'm excited to see the results? ;)
Post by: Cpa Cat on September 01, 2015, 10:03:55 PM
Then drop in 5-6 raspberry bushes (I like Heritage, if it will grow in Maine, I highly suggest it for raspberries) and a couple of blackberry bushes. Maybe drop in some asparagus.
I have three blackberry bushes, and two blueberries that are on year two. We got 6 blackberries this year, no blueberries, yet. :) Hoping more will come in as time passes. I have a friend with raspberries, so we can get some plants from her. Plan to plant a couple arctic kiwis... supposed to do 50 lbs of fruit a year! Also some apple trees, which I believe can be grown from cuttings... not too sure.
So many plans! :)
My blackberries produce every other year. It's because blackberries grow on two year old canes - one year the energy seems to go to growing canes and the next year to fruiting them. I'm guessing, given the age of your blackberries, next year will be your first real crop (grown on this year's non-fruiting canes). If your blackberries follow the same timeline as mine, next year you'll say, "Oh yay, look at this great quantity of blackberries - how exciting." The year after that - "Hey, six berries!" And then three years from now, you'll be saying "Oh dear lord, who could possibly eat 25 lbs of blackberries?"
It is the same with my asian pears - but in their case, it's usually due to frost. If buds get frosted one year, there tends to be a lot of pent up fruiting energy the next year.
My persimmons took a long time to start fruiting, but are consistent every year.
My raspberries are consistent annual fruiters, but this is typical of Heritage (which can be cut down at the end of each season and fruit on one year old canes) - and why I recommend them. I have a couple of yellow raspberries that fruit on two-year old canes and they've never been as productive.
My blueberries never fruit - too picky about soil acidity.
Some fruit trees are grafted onto hardy root stocks so that they have a higher resistance to cold. So cuttings don't always produce a tree that's as hardy as the parent. So just be careful with that.
I think cuttings are great for flowering plants - you like the flower, you take a cutting, you'll probably get that flower. But with fruit, I think you should take care to choose varieties that are recommended for Maine and are noted for being productive. The penalty for doing otherwise is that your tree grows for five years and then gets killed during a bad Winter, because you didn't realize the tree you cut from was grafted.
Or - such as in the case of raspberries - you accidentally planted something that has low productivity (my yellow raspberries were actually labeled incorrectly - their paltry berries are sweet, but they produce nothing compared to their Heritage red companions).
Anyway - I could go on about gardening forever. Best of luck. :)
Post by: cchrissyy on September 01, 2015, 11:20:13 PM
nobody has suggested keeping chickens yet, and i don't know much about it but it seems like a good way to grow your own food if actual gardening is not working out, and maybe something your kids would enjoy?
About that expensive raw milk, if you know you live fine without milk at all, and you know how much you save by cutting it out entirely, awesome, but if you did want the kids to have it occasionally, well, maybe it can be a once a month addition to your food plan. It doesn't have to be all or nothing, what matters is cutting out most of it, and thinking critically about what is worth it to you and what is an expensive habit.
I love peaches, but buy none at that price. And hey, bananas are good but they have such thick skins, I don't care if they're organic. And I'm shocked at your cost of peppers! It reminds me of a time I was given a huge grocery bag full of them from somebody's over-producing garden, and I sliced and froze them, and they went in to stir frys and crock pot dished for a darn long time after, and, my kids would eat them straight from the freezer. So, if your kids like peppers now, fresh and in cooking, well, I think if you stock up when they are cheap and in season, you may learn that your kids like frozen strips of peppers just as much : )
good luck!
Post by: Thegoblinchief on September 02, 2015, 06:33:23 AM
Post by: PFHC on September 02, 2015, 07:00:35 AM
Raw milk is illegal here so for me it's a moot point, but why on earth does it cost 6x what pasteurized does?Because of subsidies and economy of scale. Its also a hot commodity here in the progressive food paradise of midcoast Maine.
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Post by: mskyle on September 02, 2015, 07:49:20 AM
Raw milk is illegal here so for me it's a moot point, but why on earth does it cost 6x what pasteurized does?
You can't really ship it long distances safely, so you can't scale up a raw milk operation the way you can pasteurized milk. That's the main thing.
Post by: mm1970 on September 02, 2015, 08:15:01 AM
Your plan looks great and I think you'll see a huge difference to your grocery bills! I personally think you will have a difficult time with a complete non-shopping week. You are very fruit and veggie centric with your spending and (at least in my house) most produce won't make it a second week. I think you may have more luck dividing your spending into 2 week segments. This works best for us. So I give us $250/2 weeks. This week is a great example, I spent a whopping $200 of our budget. I did get a ton of overdue staples and food for a birthday party we are hosting but I know that when I go shopping again on Sunday I have only $50 left. A huge portion of that will be spent on filling our fruit basket.This is a great point and wonderful idea as an alternative! I added it to the GGP and will talk it over with my wife.
This is a super good idea. I know that when I've done the best in my budget, it's when I've alternated budgets by time or given myself wiggle room.
In 2009, I alternated months of $160 and $320 (only one kid back then and I was running a lot and could eat more carbs) and now I'm alternating $80 and $100 by week. (Note: CSA is prepaid and not included in that number). Having a 2-week budget would be even better.
Post by: meg_shannon on September 02, 2015, 12:45:25 PM
I meal plan by the month, two weeks at a time, and some days are static. For example every Sunday is pizza night (we also do egg, pasta, veggie stir-fry, salad, and soup once per week usually). I also keep track that so many dinners will produce leftovers for lunch the next day. My husband takes them to work. Our daughter uses a YumBox (like a Bento box but can handle yogurt). I grocery shop for all pantry, freezer, and sturdy produce by the month. Only perishable goods get picked up weekly (or our CSA share). If you eat bread, make no knead bread.
I don't particularly like shopping by grocery flyer. I mostly shopped at Wegmans (in NJ) as their family pack prices were usually the same or cheaper than other stores' flyer prices. Of course this means that we will eat 3 lbs of broccoli in a week (with 2 adults and one 5 y/o).
I have a chest freezer, a huge pot (also used for canning), and batch cook a lot. With a larger family you may want a pressure cooker. Generally I batch one meal per week (say make 12 quarts of chili, 30 servings of pasta sauce, a huge roast, etc.), and we eat two things from the freezer each week. (Yay! Two nights I don't have to cook more than a side). There are whole cookbooks to help you do this and thekitchn.com has a lot of suggestions for freezer meals. Also search for anything geared towards new moms.
We buy meat on sale, managers special, from the farm, etc. and freeze it to keep costs down. We also use it sparingly.
Keep a dinner/meal notebook. Keep track of every meal you cook, a paper or digital calendar works well (and you can store the links or cookbook information - also great for remembering seasonal favorites). Anything that is showing up frequently, or that is a favorite, figure out the cost per meal. You may be surprised. Some things I thought were cheap weren't and others were. It's not important to know the cost per meal of every meal you make, but know the cost of those heaviest in the rotation.
Lentils and beans are your friends, lentils topped with an egg, lentil soup, white bean stew, curries, etc. Basically look to food cultures that are mostly vegetarian and rely heavily on spices - like Indian food. Think peasant food (cabbage, beets, potatoes, sweet potatoes, turnips, etc.).
Find a few fixed, cheap, healthy options for breakfast. It will cut down a stress in the morning. I like making German pancakes (also called Dutch babies) on the weekends. Lots of eggs, easy, and tasty.
Drink pretty much only water.
Snacks are hard, but if you can lean heavily on hummus, peanut butter (our daughter is allergic but doesn't eat too much yet), and other protein/fat heavy plant based foods.
Post by: tanzee on September 02, 2015, 02:37:28 PM
Post by: PFHC on September 02, 2015, 03:26:40 PM
I have found that produce can really kill a grocery budget. Don't get me wrong, we eat lots of veggies, but we tend to keep it to the cheaper ones. It can really add up when one gets a large assortment of veggies. I think the trick is to buy specific ones and ration them effectively. For example, rather than make a salad with 15 or 20 different types of veggies in it, pick 4 or 5, and run with it. It can still be just as delicious and nutrient dense, but might cost half, or a quarter the price.We tend to make very involved salads, so this is a great pointer. Thanks!
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Post by: TheOldestYoungMan on September 02, 2015, 03:42:41 PM
As an overall strategy, I was able to reduce my grocery bill dramatically over the course of a year by just picking one thing at a time to get better at. I also picked one thing at a time to give up completely.
So for instance, this month, I'll get better at my favorite breakfast dish: The breakfast burrito. This wasn't chosen at random, it was based on a primary ingredient in my current recipe being on sale at the grocery store this week. I'll optimize every aspect of buying the ingredients, try different prepared tortillas and make-your-own recipes, vary the ingredients, and figure out the best breakfast burrito I can. Everything else will go on auto-pilot, and I'll stop eating any kind of pasta (generally I give up whatever I ate the most of the previous month or spent the most on the previous month).
Next month, I'll evaluate if pasta is necessary. If I didn't mind giving it up completely, then it likely stays gone. In this way I've dropped entire habits that I didn't really need, and reduced my consumption of other things. It also forced me to try new things, because anything that was too easy quickly ended up on the dropped list.
The two things, getting better at one thing at a time plus dropping one thing at a time, let me get control of it in a way that was manageable and sustainable. My food choices are much more deliberate. Getting better at one thing makes you faster at all other cooking, and more adaptable. You also gain a deep understanding of the cost of the thing or the ingredients, so all future interactions with it are auto-pilot frugal. Since embracing the egg as a thing that brings all foods together in the morning, I have virtually no food waste.
80 lbs of sweet potato is a bountiful harvest! If you can manage to produce one thing in abundance on the cheap, you either make it a staple or trade with others in the community. I'd trade you lb for lb watermelon for sweet potato (if you didn't live like, so hella far away). Somebody up there is managing to grow broccoli and cauliflower.
There was a post by MMM that sticks with me, when he was talking about buying stuff on sale. When you find that thing you use all the time for a really low price, you don't just buy 4 instead of 2 that week, you buy every one they have.
Good luck!
And uh, if you know any Mormons, they usually have the low-down on food solutions in your area. I feel weird saying that, but it's part of their religion or something to take their food supply very seriously. I get great advice on local sources from Mormons. /shrug.
Post by: KittyCat on September 02, 2015, 04:54:15 PM
Ya. After posting that, before I racked out last night, I had a little moment about raw milk. We have been entirely milk free for the last 7 years. Until last month when I read a book extolling the virtues of raw milk, this one in particular was about its purported benefit in combating tooth decay. The book was largely evidence free and full of wild allegations, but the intuitive arguments rung true with me. So, we went with it. The kids absolutely love the raw, no sweetener added, yogurt. Love it. And I think it is very healthy. But, we can go without. They get plenty of nutrients elsewhere, and plenty of good fats in the form of olive oil and coconut oil.
And, trust me, I know the virtue of saving $20. I am just trying to adjust myself into what luxuries we should allow ourselves. Food takes the place as our highest expense by far. More than 4 times the next highest. It will stay our main luxury, we just want to trim anything obvious. Thanks to you all, we're going to be able to do that.
I am so damn psyched to get rolling with this. The MMM community is awesome!
Coincidentally, I ran across a blog post about raw milk (http://vitals.lifehacker.com/1727271987) recently. Perhaps you'd like to read it; it's not very long, and it has a link to its source which has more information.
Post by: PFHC on September 02, 2015, 05:55:09 PM
This is good information. But the fact is, my wife and kids do not tolerate pasteurized milk, or milk products, of any kind. They do tolerate, very well, grass-fed raw milk and the products derived thereof.Ya. After posting that, before I racked out last night, I had a little moment about raw milk. We have been entirely milk free for the last 7 years. Until last month when I read a book extolling the virtues of raw milk, this one in particular was about its purported benefit in combating tooth decay. The book was largely evidence free and full of wild allegations, but the intuitive arguments rung true with me. So, we went with it. The kids absolutely love the raw, no sweetener added, yogurt. Love it. And I think it is very healthy. But, we can go without. They get plenty of nutrients elsewhere, and plenty of good fats in the form of olive oil and coconut oil.
And, trust me, I know the virtue of saving $20. I am just trying to adjust myself into what luxuries we should allow ourselves. Food takes the place as our highest expense by far. More than 4 times the next highest. It will stay our main luxury, we just want to trim anything obvious. Thanks to you all, we're going to be able to do that.
I am so damn psyched to get rolling with this. The MMM community is awesome!
Coincidentally, I ran across a blog post about raw milk (http://vitals.lifehacker.com/1727271987) recently. Perhaps you'd like to read it; it's not very long, and it has a link to its source which has more information.
Post by: boy_bye on September 02, 2015, 05:55:23 PM
Post by: KittyCat on September 02, 2015, 06:12:17 PM
This is good information. But the fact is, my wife and kids do not tolerate pasteurized milk, or milk products, of any kind. They do tolerate, very well, grass-fed raw milk and the products derived thereof.How interesting; well, if raw milk and its derivatives are the only things that work, I guess that's that.
Post by: PFHC on September 02, 2015, 06:48:35 PM
So, first, props to the wife. Absolutely anything she's able to do out of these various suggestions is amazing.She's amazing, that's for certain.
Quote
And uh, if you know any Mormons, they usually have the low-down on food solutions in your area. I feel weird saying that, but it's part of their religion or something to take their food supply very seriously. I get great advice on local sources from Mormons. /shrug.I'll look into it. :)
Post by: PFHC on September 02, 2015, 07:02:30 PM
To Put your mind at rest, we are eliminating, or greatly reducing, the already small amount of raw milk we consume. If we do buy it ever, it will be a half gallon once a month.This is good information. But the fact is, my wife and kids do not tolerate pasteurized milk, or milk products, of any kind. They do tolerate, very well, grass-fed raw milk and the products derived thereof.How interesting; well, if raw milk and its derivatives are the only things that work, I guess that's that.
Post by: kite on September 03, 2015, 06:01:02 AM
To Put your mind at rest, we are eliminating, or greatly reducing, the already small amount of raw milk we consume. If we do buy it ever, it will be a half gallon once a month.This is good information. But the fact is, my wife and kids do not tolerate pasteurized milk, or milk products, of any kind. They do tolerate, very well, grass-fed raw milk and the products derived thereof.How interesting; well, if raw milk and its derivatives are the only things that work, I guess that's that.
I've no quibble with adults who drink it, but it's nucking futs to give it to children. It's an invitation for an E.Coli infection and those children have a weaker immune system than you for fighting such a thing. It's not just a wicked bout of diarrhea for them, it's dehydration leading to kidney failure.
A friend caught brucellosis in childhood from drinking raw milk from his own family's animals. That illness left him with a sickly life in general from damaged kidneys. He was dead by age 46 from organic failure. I share this only because your specific intent was health. Raw milk isn't healthier. It is more delicious, but it's loaded with risk.
Pasteurization saved lives.
Post by: PFHC on September 03, 2015, 06:15:37 AM
That is excellent anecdotal evidence and I'm sorry for your loss and your friends illness. Thank you for your genuine concern and good intentions.To Put your mind at rest, we are eliminating, or greatly reducing, the already small amount of raw milk we consume. If we do buy it ever, it will be a half gallon once a month.This is good information. But the fact is, my wife and kids do not tolerate pasteurized milk, or milk products, of any kind. They do tolerate, very well, grass-fed raw milk and the products derived thereof.How interesting; well, if raw milk and its derivatives are the only things that work, I guess that's that.
I've no quibble with adults who drink it, but it's nucking futs to give it to children. It's an invitation for an E.Coli infection and those children have a weaker immune system than you for fighting such a thing. It's not just a wicked bout of diarrhea for them, it's dehydration leading to kidney failure.
A friend caught brucellosis in childhood from drinking raw milk from his own family's animals. That illness left him with a sickly life in general from damaged kidneys. He was dead by age 46 from organic failure. I share this only because your specific intent was health. Raw milk isn't healthier. It is more delicious, but it's loaded with risk.
Pasteurization saved lives.
Thankfully, with proper sanitation and regulation, such as what exists in Maine, the scientific evidence does not support your worries. Again, thank you for your concern, but we are comfortable with the risk.
Post by: kite on September 03, 2015, 08:02:37 AM
That is excellent anecdotal evidence and I'm sorry for your loss and your friends illness. Thank you for your genuine concern and good intentions.
I've no quibble with adults who drink it, but it's nucking futs to give it to children. It's an invitation for an E.Coli infection and those children have a weaker immune system than you for fighting such a thing. It's not just a wicked bout of diarrhea for them, it's dehydration leading to kidney failure.
A friend caught brucellosis in childhood from drinking raw milk from his own family's animals. That illness left him with a sickly life in general from damaged kidneys. He was dead by age 46 from organic failure. I share this only because your specific intent was health. Raw milk isn't healthier. It is more delicious, but it's loaded with risk.
Pasteurization saved lives.
Thankfully, with proper sanitation and regulation, such as what exists in Maine, the scientific evidence does not support your worries. Again, thank you for your concern, but we are comfortable with the risk.
That's an odd opinion to me and I'm not sure I regard that as valid anecdotal evidence. I grew up on raw milk and so did my four siblings. And so did my mom and her seven siblings and their children.
I grew up in an extremely rural area where many families farmed, kept cows and drank the raw milk. That has changed now and all the young adults who work in non-farm occupations buy milk at the store. But whenever anyone gets the chance to get raw milk (usually given, not bought) and drink that instead, you bet they do.
Full Disclosure: about the time I hit my late 40's we discovered I'm lactose intolerant. I don't regard that as a consequence of raw milk - I regard it as a consequence of using antibiotics for ear infections and ruining my digestive flora.
I've never had to get medical help for the intolerance, I just don't drink milk in general any more. But I eat cheeses which have low-or-no lactose and I'm good.
Lactose intolerance is the normal human condition. It's a quirk that some of us can tolerate milk at all because most humans cannot. I too love raw cows milk, raw goats milk, and raw milk cheeses for their taste.
But the science is settled. This risk is such that the CDC, AMA, FDA, American Veterinary Medical Association, World Health Organization, and American Academy of Pediatrics are in agreement that children shouldn't eat that stuff ever.
Post by: Faraday on September 03, 2015, 08:32:53 AM
....
But the science is settled. This risk is such that the CDC, AMA, FDA, American Veterinary Medical Association, World Health Organization, and American Academy of Pediatrics are in agreement that children shouldn't eat that stuff ever.
It's a fair cop.
I re-read my posting and I don't wanna be on that side of the argument, even though (apparently) I and my family were extremely lucky. Here's a CDC link discussing the issue:
http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-and-answers.html
Post by: Tyson on September 04, 2015, 06:32:23 PM
Post by: PFHC on September 05, 2015, 12:19:14 AM
So I'm just curios, are the grocery costs starting to drop?OK! The results of my wife's Thursday trip for the coming week:
Big store
item/qty/cost/price per unit
Nori/20/$2.29/$0.11
Banana/3.37lbs/$1.65/$0.49
Large lemons/2/$1.98/$0.99
Green cabbage/1.9lbs/$1.50/$0.79
Sweet potatoes/1.93lbs/$1.91/$0.99
Avocados/9/$8.91/$0.99
Red cabbage/4.24lbs/$3.77/$0.89
Small lemons/1 bag/$0.69/$0.69
Potatoes/5lbs/$1.99/$0.40
Cauliflower/1/$3.49/$3.49
Onions/2lbs/$1.99/$1.00
Total: $30.17
Market
Free range eggs/12/$9.78/$0.82
Pickles/3lbs/$6.99/$2.33
Chocolate pretzels/0.339 lbs/$1.28/$3.78
Local carrots/2lbs/$5.29/$2.65
Total:$23.24
Grand Total: $53.51!!!
I'm SO stoked with this! Tons of food for a FIFTH of what we normally spend!! WOOHOO!!
There is still room to improve. Going to shop around for carrots, she bought the pretzels for whiny kids and herself (we'll bring snacks next time... added to the GGP), the large lemons were spendy. Otherwise, this is an awesome improvement from just Monday. :) Smiling my face off.
I'm going to keep track for the coming month. Every receipt. I will post an update when the month finishes. Fingers crossed!
Post by: Monkey Uncle on September 05, 2015, 04:05:59 AM
So I'm just curios, are the grocery costs starting to drop?OK! The results of my wife's Thursday trip for the coming week:
Big store
item/qty/cost/price per unit
Nori/20/$2.29/$0.11
Banana/3.37lbs/$1.65/$0.49
Large lemons/2/$1.98/$0.99
Green cabbage/1.9lbs/$1.50/$0.79
Sweet potatoes/1.93lbs/$1.91/$0.99
Avocados/9/$8.91/$0.99
Red cabbage/4.24lbs/$3.77/$0.89
Small lemons/1 bag/$0.69/$0.69
Potatoes/5lbs/$1.99/$0.40
Cauliflower/1/$3.49/$3.49
Onions/2lbs/$1.99/$1.00
Total: $30.17
Market
Free range eggs/12/$9.78/$0.82
Pickles/3lbs/$6.99/$2.33
Chocolate pretzels/0.339 lbs/$1.28/$3.78
Local carrots/2lbs/$5.29/$2.65
Total:$23.24
Grand Total: $53.51!!!
I'm SO stoked with this! Tons of food for a FIFTH of what we normally spend!! WOOHOO!!
There is still room to improve. Going to shop around for carrots, she bought the pretzels for whiny kids and herself (we'll bring snacks next time... added to the GGP), the large lemons were spendy. Otherwise, this is an awesome improvement from just Monday. :) Smiling my face off.
I'm going to keep track for the coming month. Every receipt. I will post an update when the month finishes. Fingers crossed!
I would add the $10/doz eggs to the spendy list. That's pretty insane.
Post by: PFHC on September 05, 2015, 04:36:21 AM
So I'm just curios, are the grocery costs starting to drop?OK! The results of my wife's Thursday trip for the coming week:
Big store
item/qty/cost/price per unit
Nori/20/$2.29/$0.11
Banana/3.37lbs/$1.65/$0.49
Large lemons/2/$1.98/$0.99
Green cabbage/1.9lbs/$1.50/$0.79
Sweet potatoes/1.93lbs/$1.91/$0.99
Avocados/9/$8.91/$0.99
Red cabbage/4.24lbs/$3.77/$0.89
Small lemons/1 bag/$0.69/$0.69
Potatoes/5lbs/$1.99/$0.40
Cauliflower/1/$3.49/$3.49
Onions/2lbs/$1.99/$1.00
Total: $30.17
Market
Free range eggs/12/$9.78/$0.82
Pickles/3lbs/$6.99/$2.33
Chocolate pretzels/0.339 lbs/$1.28/$3.78
Local carrots/2lbs/$5.29/$2.65
Total:$23.24
Grand Total: $53.51!!!
I'm SO stoked with this! Tons of food for a FIFTH of what we normally spend!! WOOHOO!!
There is still room to improve. Going to shop around for carrots, she bought the pretzels for whiny kids and herself (we'll bring snacks next time... added to the GGP), the large lemons were spendy. Otherwise, this is an awesome improvement from just Monday. :) Smiling my face off.
I'm going to keep track for the coming month. Every receipt. I will post an update when the month finishes. Fingers crossed!
I would add the $10/doz eggs to the spendy list. That's pretty insane.
Agreed. :) We'll shop around see if we can find a better deal for free range eggs.
Post by: Jakejake on September 05, 2015, 06:58:41 AM
The rest though - wow! Looks like a good mix of produce, with some fancier things (red cabbage instead of green, avocados) without breaking the bank.
Post by: pbkmaine on September 05, 2015, 07:28:00 AM
Post by: ketchup on September 05, 2015, 07:35:15 AM
Post by: kathrynd on September 05, 2015, 09:28:39 AM
My husband and I eat almost all our meals at home..might spend $20 a month on restaurants.
He is 220 lbs and I am 115 lbs...so in the normal range.
We buy a lot of the same things, but stock up when there is a sale, and take advantage of the store incentives.
When the stores have their discount / reduced produce, we grab as much as our fridge will hold. This is how we get our variety.
With our breakfast, there will be sliced fruit..and if we are having porridge (not instant) I add in fruit....as well as eating it as a snack.
We don't buy bread, but make it with our bread machine. Makes wonderful toast.(crumbs/ crusts are saved in the freezer for stuffing or crumbs)
Whole chickens when on sale. Roast them. Then use the meat in recipes. When the carcass is picked, it is used for the base of homemade chicken soup.
If a recipe calls for 1 lb of meat, I use 3/4 lb....bulk it out with vegetables.
We use naan bread as a base for pizzas. Spread a bit of barbeque sauce...add whatever you have on top ...sprinkle with cheese..pop into oven.
Baked potatoes with chopped vegetables.Potatoes can be cooked so many ways, to add variety.
We never go grocery shopping...we go special and discount shopping...it will literally cut your food budget in half .
Given yourself 3-4 months spending what you are now, to use for your stockpile.
If you are buying cakes and cupcakes...stop. Making from scratch is so simple...but using a cake mix , bought on sale, is a compromise.
My next 4 posts will be what we actually bought and spent from May-Aug.
Post by: kathrynd on September 05, 2015, 09:29:45 AM
$330.26
NN coffee 2@4.49=$8.98
Coffee Mate hazelnut $4.99
eggs- $3.43
NN cheese 2 @ $4.79 = $9.58
Parkay margarine = $4.79
Delisio Rustic pizza 2 @ $3.99 = $7.98
mushrooms $2.69 50% pink sticker= $1.69
15 lbs potatoes $5.99
onions $1.79
stew pack- $4.49
basa fillets- $3.99
907g margarine 3 @ 2.99=$8.97
4l milk- $6.49
10kg flour- $10.00
Tahina- $4.79
x-lg eggs 2@$3.00= $6.00
3lbs carrots =$3.49
15 lbs potatoes 2 @ 2.99= $5.98
reduced tomatoes =$1.49
1.74 kg bananas = $1.36
bacon =$3.99
sole fillets =$7.99
Pepperoni =$5.49
500ml whipping cream = $3.79
4L milk = $6.49
Barbeque sauce 3 @ $1.00= $3.00
can peas 2 @ $0.79 =$1.58
NN coffee 3@4.49= $13.47 (
colgate toothpaste 3@$1.79 =$5.37
speedstick deodorant 4 @ 2/$4.00 = $8.00
colgate tooth brushes 2 @ $1.99 = $3.98
travel toothbrush/toopaste $3.29
NN margarine 3lb 3@5.89 =$17.67 50% pink sticker =$8.82
4L milk= $5.99
phil creme cooking herb &garlc $2.99 50% pink sticker = $1.49
phil crm three cheese $2.99 50% pink sticker = $1.49
2L ice cream $2.99
blueberries $3.00
pork chops $1.96
naan bread 2 @ $1.99 = $3.98
Dads oatmeal.choc chip cookies (48 ct) $11.59-50% pink sticker= $5.79
4L milk $5.99
Ground beef $5.61 (reduced)= $2.85
2L MM Orange Juice- $1.88
4L milk- $5.99
1 lb strawberries $2.50
.22kg mushrooms $2.31
NN bacon $5.49
PC Naan bread $1.99
whippet cookies 2 @ $1.85= $3.70
jam filled cookies =$0.99
canned tomatoes 3/ $1.00= $1.00
jelly candy- $1.75
chocolate bar candy 3 @ $2.00= $6.00
Oh Henry choc bars 2 @ $1.00 =$2.00
keilbosa sausage =$2.00
pepperoni= $2.99
Barley =$0.90
Blueberry jam =$2.88
Graves apple juice- $1.25
NN 3lb margarine 2@$5.89=$11.78 (pink sticker reduced)=$5.88
1.04 bananas = $1.82
tuna 3 @ $0.99= $2.97
miracle whip= $2.99
Minute Maid orange juice=$1.88
PC sour cream $4.29-50% pink sticker= $2.14
parsnips (reduced)= $1.49
yellow peppers (reduced)= $1.49
apples (reduced) = $1.49
.4kg tomato= $1.16
ground beef = $9.96
PC naan bread= $1.99
blueberry watermelon juice $0.99
4L milk- $5.99
3lbs onions 2@$1.79 =$3.58
oranges/apples/banana tray 2@$1.49 = $2.98 (reduced )
pork chops $6.43+ $5.88 = $12.31
Bros Pepperoni $6.47
Post by: kathrynd on September 05, 2015, 09:31:45 AM
$214.96
coffee creamer-$4.99
coffee creamer -$2.99
cheddar cheese-$5.79
brussel sprouts 2/$5.00
reduced produce- $0.99
reduces produce- $1.49
sweet potato $1.58
eggs $2.79
4 L milk- $6.09
ice cream-$3.99
Bacon 4 @3.99 =$15.96
reduced mini naan bread $1.69-.$.85 = $.84
naan bread 2 @ $1.99 = $3.98
BBQ sauce 3@. $.89= $2.67
4 L milk- $5.99
bananas-= $1.96
mushrooms = $3.00
cookies $3.59
eggs 3 @ $2.79= $8.37
cheese 2 @ $4.99 = $9.98
sweet potato = $1.78
stew pack vegs $4.49
whole chicken $7.38
whole chicken $6.88
4L milk- 5.99
marmalade- $2.29
flakes of ham 2 @ $0.99 = $1.98
4 L milk= $5.99
cheeze whiz 2 @ $2.84 = $5.68
cheeze whiz =$2.84
reduced produce 6 @ $1.49 =$8.97
reduced produce = $.99
cheese 2 @ $ 4.79 = $9.58
eggs 4 @ 2/$5.00 = $10.00
4 L milk $5.99
bagels reduced $3.59- $1.80 = $1.79
mini naan bead 3 @ $1.69 =reduced $2.55 =$2.52
salad dressing $0.75
cream of wheat $1.99
tomato sauce $1.00
yeast $6.59
candy-$15.00
corn chips $0.50
bananas- $1.47
4 L milk $6.49
donuts $3.99
Post by: kathrynd on September 05, 2015, 09:32:32 AM
$227.20
4 L milk- $5.99
2 juice 2@ 2$4.00 = $4.00
flour $9.99
veg oil $5.99
grape jelly $2.29
margarine $2.99
4 L milk- $5.99
vanilla ice cream- $5.99
peppers reduced $4.99- $2.50= $2.49
reduced produce = $0.99
reduced produce = $1.49
pepperoni reduced $5.79-$2.90= $2.89
coffee creamer =$4.99
coffee creamer =$2.99
mushrooms $2.00
naan bread reduced $11.96- $6.00 = $5.96
bakery buns reduced $4.69- $2.35=$2.34
cooked chicken reduced $9.99- $5.00 = $4.99
graham crumbs =$4.19
cream = $3.49
brussel sprouts 2/ $5.00 = $5.00
hand lotion $4.99
icing sugar- $2.50
peanut butter 4 @$3.49 -=$13.96
orange pekoe tea = $5.99
whip cream $2.99
parkay margarine 6 @ $3.33 = $19.98
bacon 4 @ $1.99 =$7.96
4 L milk = $5.99
2 juice @ $1.25 = $2.50
cheese 2 @ $4.28=$8.56
4 L milk = $5.99
reduced produce 6 @ $1.49 =$8.97
whole chicken $7.82
whole chicken $7.38
rolls reduced $2.79- $1.40= $1.39
2 candy bars $1.00
8 canned vegetables - BOGO @ $1.19= $4.76
eggs 3 @ 2.99 = $8.97
ice cream sandwich 2 @ 6.49 BOGO =$6.49
10 lbs potatoes 2 @ 3.99 BOGO =$3.99
toothpaste 4 @ $2.49 BOGO = $4.98
apples $2.00
vegetables- $1.00
Post by: kathrynd on September 05, 2015, 09:33:05 AM
Aug 2015- 2 adults( 220 lbs + 115 lbs)
$213.90
2 pkgs cookies reduced 2 @ $1.69- $.85= $1.68
2 doz eggs 2 @ 2.49 = $4.98
carrots reduced $3.99- $2.00= $1.99
produce reduced 5 @ $.99 +$4.95
reduced produce 2 @ $1.49 = $2.98
2 brown sugar 2/$5.00 = $5.00
4 L milk =$5.99
2 apple juice 2 @ $1.00 = $2.00
4 L milk = $5.99
kidney beans $1.00
lemon juice = $2.49
4 tuna 4/$5.00 = $5.00
2 juice @ $.99= $1.98
coffee creamer $4.49
coffee creamer = $2.99
4 L milk $5.99
cheese reduced 2 @ $4.48 $4.48= $4.48
naan bread reduced $2.99- $1.50= $1.49
4 coffee @ $3.99 = $15.96
12 pk NN mac and cheese =$6.29
4 tomato soup @ 2/$1.00= $2.00
50g summer savory =$5.69
blueberry =$2.50
onions =$2.50
2 bananas = $0.55
whole chicken $7.86
whole chicken $7.46
ground beef = $10.49
ground beef =$9.77
4 graves apple juice @ $0.88 = $3.52
4L milk =$5.99
pogo- $1.00
hamburger rolls reduced $4.39-$2.20=$2.19
bananas= $0.99
38 cans compliments tuna @.099 =$37.62
4 L milk $6.49
4 juice 2/$1.00 =$2.00
3 canned baked beans @ $0.79 = $2.37
chocolate bar =$1.48
apple pie=$3.99
peaches=$2.00
broccoli-$2.00
mushrooms-$1.49
2 apple/blueberry juice 2/$2.25= $2.25
sweet potato=$1.87
Post by: clarkfan1979 on September 05, 2015, 11:28:01 AM
I would recommend small changes over time. You will be more likely to stick with it. Try to cut your bill by 5% to start and build momentum from there.
Post by: ketchup on September 05, 2015, 03:21:42 PM
These numbers are based on what we actually buy, and are pretty close to the healthiest/hippiest versions available. Anything made at home was adjusted to include only approximate yield.
From most cost-effective to least:
Pastured beef suet from local farm at $0.75/lb that's been rendered into tallow at home:
4070 calories per dollar
Pastured pork back fat from local farm at $0.75/lb that's been rendered into lard at home:
3859 calories per dollar
Organic extra virgin olive oil from Costco ($14.99/2L):
1076 calories per dollar
Organic coconut oil from Costco ($24.99/84oz):
825 calories per dollar
Kerrygold salted grass-fed butter (bulk from Costco, 3x8oz for $7.49):
627 calories per dollar
Refined coconut oil (Nutiva $12.50/54oz Amazon.com):
644 calories per dollar
Unsalted Kerrygold (from regular grocery store for $2.99/8oz), clarified at home:
501 calories per dollar
So tallow and lard are crazy cheap compared to grass-fed butter and coconut oil, with olive oil cheaper but not nearly as much so as tallow and lard.
Tallow and lard are also ridiculously heat-stable so you don't have to worry as much about burning it compared to other options.
So from here on out, I personally will only be using butter or coconut oil when the recipe uses that for flavoring (of which there are plenty of course) but the rest of the time, I'll be replacing it with tallow or lard.
Of course, a gallon of soybean oil from Walmart for $6 works out to be a massive 5137 calories per dollar, but nobody should be eating any of that no matter how cheap it is.
Post by: PFHC on September 05, 2015, 05:39:30 PM
You haven't mentioned at all what your cooking fats of choice are. I yesterday did a cost comparison for myself and was shocked at how much it varies. Usually I have a pretty good handle on this sort of thing, but it varies wildly.We use bulk olive oil and bulk coconut oil from Sam's (no Costco near us). Not quite as good of prices as what you're getting, but close! Don't really have access to tallow and lard, but they sounds like yummy options!
These numbers are based on what we actually buy, and are pretty close to the healthiest/hippiest versions available. Anything made at home was adjusted to include only approximate yield.
From most cost-effective to least:
Pastured beef suet from local farm at $0.75/lb that's been rendered into tallow at home:
4070 calories per dollar
Pastured pork back fat from local farm at $0.75/lb that's been rendered into lard at home:
3859 calories per dollar
Organic extra virgin olive oil from Costco ($14.99/2L):
1076 calories per dollar
Organic coconut oil from Costco ($24.99/84oz):
825 calories per dollar
Kerrygold salted grass-fed butter (bulk from Costco, 3x8oz for $7.49):
627 calories per dollar
Refined coconut oil (Nutiva $12.50/54oz Amazon.com):
644 calories per dollar
Unsalted Kerrygold (from regular grocery store for $2.99/8oz), clarified at home:
501 calories per dollar
So tallow and lard are crazy cheap compared to grass-fed butter and coconut oil, with olive oil cheaper but not nearly as much so as tallow and lard.
Tallow and lard are also ridiculously heat-stable so you don't have to worry as much about burning it compared to other options.
So from here on out, I personally will only be using butter or coconut oil when the recipe uses that for flavoring (of which there are plenty of course) but the rest of the time, I'll be replacing it with tallow or lard.
Of course, a gallon of soybean oil from Walmart for $6 works out to be a massive 5137 calories per dollar, but nobody should be eating any of that no matter how cheap it is.
Post by: PFHC on September 06, 2015, 12:45:49 AM
PFHC, this just occurred to me. Some people with gluten issues can tolerate sourdough breads.Thanks for the lead! We very rarely eat bread, but we could try sourdough pizza crust for pizza and movie night. :)
http://www.culturedfoodlife.com/can-sourdough-change-the-gluten-free-diet/
This might be worth playing with. I have a cookbook where every single bread recipe uses a sourdough starter. If you could use some bread, even if you had to DIY it, it could give you access to a good, cheap food to stretch your budget.
Post by: Bendigirl on September 06, 2015, 07:39:39 PM
I personally like to use servings, not weight, as a guideline.
My 300 gram container of organic spinach might seem high priced when looking at cost per pound (it costs 3.99 canadian) but we have large salads every second night and this container lasts for four suppers, two meals each. So I get eight large servings, each serving .50 cents. Of course I add other goodies, generally garden tomatoes, organic broccoli, red onions, toasted pumpkin seeds....maybe feta and some small amount of protein. I find this perfectly acceptable ( absolutely none of my greens sprouted in my garden this year, very sad) and this old body needs all those nutrients.
Tonight was a fresh tomato, pepper and onion stir fry (lots of garlic and fresh basil) over some black bean pasta. This was new for me, saw it in Costco last week and with its high protein content I thought it a great find. It was amazing! I HATE beans but this pasta was good and organic, about $1 a serving with 22 grams of protein and a pile of fibre....will keep this on the shelf for sure.
Great job on your latest trip....I pay about $6 for organic free range eggs and I thought that was terrible!
Post by: PFHC on September 06, 2015, 08:57:04 PM
I was thinking about some earlier posts and one that stood out for me. There was a price per pound breakdown of your grocery list, with greens coming out looking very expensive per pound.This is a good thought. Most of the food we buy, we are buying with something like that in mind. Not necessarily the price/lb, because i'll be damned if I eat a pound of spinach in a week, but more so the price/serving and even more so, the price/nutritional benefit.
I personally like to use servings, not weight, as a guideline.
Being an engineer, it would be nice to break your foods down into cost/nutritional benefit. Make a spreadsheet that could track that. It would be tough because of much of what find to be nutritionally beneficial has a hard time being proven by science... or maybe more accurately, being funded to be proven by a peer-reviewed research paper. But, when eating it as a part of our regular diet, you can feel the results of the nutrition. You actually feel better. In a perfect world, you could do a price/hey-I-feel-better index to hold the naysayers at bay. :)
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Tonight was a fresh tomato, pepper and onion stir fry (lots of garlic and fresh basil) over some black bean pasta. This was new for me, saw it in Costco last week and with its high protein content I thought it a great find. It was amazing! I HATE beans but this pasta was good and organic, about $1 a serving with 22 grams of protein and a pile of fibre....will keep this on the shelf for sure.Sounds amazingly yummy. I've said it before... wish like hell we had a Costco nearby.
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Great job on your latest trip...Thanks! I was excited! I just talked to my wife tonight and asked her how she felt about the week. Asked whether she'll make it to Thursday, how was making meals going, etc. She said it has been going great. :) Said it was like other aspects of our life when we simplified (clothing, for instance), it got much easier! She said she used to open the refrigerator and be overwhelmed, stressed, and worried about what she was going to make with all the wonderful food. She was stressed she was going to let it go bad. This lead to overly involved meals with many ingredients, wasted leftovers, and increased stress around meal time. She said the last four days, that has been gone, which has allowed her extra stress-free brain space. Which in turn, allowed her to get creative and simple... like making gluten free cheese pizza with things we had right in the pantry! Kids loved it and she did not have to buy anything extra to make it. Good stuff!
She did say that she may have to hit the store Monday afternoon for bananas for my sons first day of school (he LOVES bananas and they are such an awesome healthy source of calories). We talked it over and decided that she would make oatmeal for breakfast and slice one of the 4.5 million frozen bananas into it, then for lunch, make chia pudding with a small amount of blended frozen banana for flavor. YUM!
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I pay about $6 for organic free range eggs and I thought that was terrible!Ya, we have to get that figured out... or it may figure itself out. I just found out that I may be reacting to eggs, and my wife can't eat them. I have been troubled by persistent canker sores (5 at a time!) and have been scratching my head as to what was causing them. Long story short, as a last ditch effort, I cut eggs out (I would eat five a day out here because it is one of the only lean, non-fried sources of protein available) and they started to heal that day! Wow. Then a couple days later, ate a bit of an Asian rice dish that had, unkown to me, eggs in it. That afternoon, 2 hours later, I developed another sore on my tongue. So, nothing is concrete, yet, but suffice it to say I will be avoiding eggs for a while!
Speaking of lean protein, a question for anyone who is still reading...
Where do you get bulk beans? Looking for 5+ lb bags. I looked online at Amazon and the prices are pretty good. We have the option to order and pickup at Sam's. Any other sources I should price check that you all know?
Thanks in advance!
Post by: PFHC on September 06, 2015, 09:27:18 PM
You might see if you can source duck eggs.Consider it done. In the market, they are $15 just to look at one egg. ;) I'll be looking elsewhere for sure. As a matter of fact, I just posted an ad on Craigslist asking if anyone has some to sell in my area.
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Are you committed to organic beans? I usually just buy mine at the Indian market, but they aren't organic.Nope. We have a few ethnic markets down in Portland. I'll check into them. Thanks for the lead!
Post by: pbkmaine on September 06, 2015, 09:37:52 PM
Post by: PFHC on September 06, 2015, 09:48:58 PM
Pumpkin, for bulk food resources, try this website: www.theprudenthomemaker.com. She's neither organic nor gluten free, but I think you'd like her ideas, and there's nothing she doesn't know about squeezing a penny.Thanks, darlin'! ;)
Post by: pbkmaine on September 06, 2015, 09:53:38 PM
Post by: 1967mama on September 06, 2015, 10:13:07 PM
Pumpkin, for bulk food resources, try this website: www.theprudenthomemaker.com. She's neither organic nor gluten free, but I think you'd like her ideas, and there's nothing she doesn't know about squeezing a penny.
+1 for The Prudent Homemaker! She's awesome!
Post by: PFHC on September 06, 2015, 10:19:20 PM
Anytime!I just rifled through her blog. Found a great post on eating beans every night. Sent it to my wife. There seems to be some great ideas on how to trim the fat throughout. Thank you!
Post by: PFHC on September 06, 2015, 10:32:57 PM
So, we have talked about raising animals in our house, quite a bit. I would love to, but, as mentioned innumerable times, I'm not home all the time. The kids would love to because what kid doesn't love animals... and at age 3 and 5, they would have marginal responsibility, at best. My wife, on the other hand, knows that the work load and PIA that comes with raising more animals than the two turkeys (our kids) she is already raising. So she is not interested. We have talked about it for FI time, but I still have hopes that as the kids age, we may be able to make something work before then.I would add the $10/doz eggs to the spendy list. That's pretty insane.
Agreed. :) We'll shop around see if we can find a better deal for free range eggs.
I wish I were able to sell your family my duck eggs. (I'm nowhere near you, so transport would be a problem. :-)
I sell them for $2.50/dozen and they are huge. It's not a moneymaking proposition by any stretch. It pays for their food, the rest is hobby.
So, ducks. How much work have you found they require? What are your input costs? I am certain we could free range them because our land has a 1 acre of Maine wetlands, which is ideal for the right ducks. How many eggs do they produce per week?
Thanks!
Post by: Faraday on September 07, 2015, 03:13:43 AM
...
So, ducks. How much work have you found they require? What are your input costs? I am certain we could free range them because our land has a 1 acre of Maine wetlands, which is ideal for the right ducks. How many eggs do they produce per week?
I don't specifically recommend keeping ducks, but I'll answer any questions you've got:
Required Work: I feed them in the morning and evenings and let them roam around during the day foraging for bugs. Their true benefit is how they keep the bugs down. We used to be up to our butts in spiders and crawly things and the ducks gobble them down.
Input Costs: About $3/chick from the local Tractor Supply. Then there's whatever pen you need to put them in at night. You can buy a pen for $100-$250 depending on fancyness. I make all mine, I can make a big, nice pen for about $110.
I occasionally have to buy "health aids" for the ducks. things you add to their water to give them electrolytes, pro-biotics or even an antibiotic if they need it.
Eggs/Week: I've just now gotten my girls to giving me 4-6 eggs/day or about a dozen eggs every two days.
I recommend chickens. Ducks are just too favored by predators. Right now I've got a HUGE Red-Tailed Hawk trying to eat my girls, so I've had to keep the girls penned in more and hang out with them outside with my rifle. You don't want that kind of trouble.
Chickens, I think are a better source. They can live on cheaper feed than the ducks and you will have fewer problems with them.
Post by: Monkey Uncle on September 07, 2015, 04:32:51 AM
I recommend chickens. Ducks are just too favored by predators. Right now I've got a HUGE Red-Tailed Hawk trying to eat my girls, so I've had to keep the girls penned in more and hang out with them outside with my rifle. You don't want that kind of trouble.
You do realize that all birds of prey are protected by federal law? The fine for killing a hawk costs a lot more than building an enclosure with a chicken wire top over it.
Post by: PFHC on September 07, 2015, 05:58:49 AM
Unfortunately, my wife and I appear to be allergic to chicken eggs. :/...
So, ducks. How much work have you found they require? What are your input costs? I am certain we could free range them because our land has a 1 acre of Maine wetlands, which is ideal for the right ducks. How many eggs do they produce per week?
I don't specifically recommend keeping ducks, but I'll answer any questions you've got:
Required Work: I feed them in the morning and evenings and let them roam around during the day foraging for bugs. Their true benefit is how they keep the bugs down. We used to be up to our butts in spiders and crawly things and the ducks gobble them down.
Input Costs: About $3/chick from the local Tractor Supply. Then there's whatever pen you need to put them in at night. You can buy a pen for $100-$250 depending on fancyness. I make all mine, I can make a big, nice pen for about $110.
I occasionally have to buy "health aids" for the ducks. things you add to their water to give them electrolytes, pro-biotics or even an antibiotic if they need it.
Eggs/Week: I've just now gotten my girls to giving me 4-6 eggs/day or about a dozen eggs every two days.
I recommend chickens. Ducks are just too favored by predators. Right now I've got a HUGE Red-Tailed Hawk trying to eat my girls, so I've had to keep the girls penned in more and hang out with them outside with my rifle. You don't want that kind of trouble.
Chickens, I think are a better source. They can live on cheaper feed than the ducks and you will have fewer problems with them.
Sent from my XT1094 using Tapatalk
Post by: wenchsenior on September 07, 2015, 09:15:08 AM
I recommend chickens. Ducks are just too favored by predators. Right now I've got a HUGE Red-Tailed Hawk trying to eat my girls, so I've had to keep the girls penned in more and hang out with them outside with my rifle. You don't want that kind of trouble.
You do realize that all birds of prey are protected by federal law? The fine for killing a hawk costs a lot more than building an enclosure with a chicken wire top over it.
This. The fine is several thousand bucks.
Post by: Bendigirl on September 07, 2015, 05:43:48 PM
Love the fact that you and your wife are up and running with all the great advice given here so far.
Post by: Faraday on September 08, 2015, 02:41:47 AM
I recommend chickens. Ducks are just too favored by predators. Right now I've got a HUGE Red-Tailed Hawk trying to eat my girls, so I've had to keep the girls penned in more and hang out with them outside with my rifle. You don't want that kind of trouble.
You do realize that all birds of prey are protected by federal law? The fine for killing a hawk costs a lot more than building an enclosure with a chicken wire top over it.
This. The fine is several thousand bucks.
You people 'effin kill me. Does no one do a google search before they start tippy-tapping here?
http://www.fws.gov/permits/
http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/113482/legal-elimination-of-hawks-and-owls
Post by: PFHC on September 08, 2015, 03:47:05 AM
I hear ya on the egg allergy. I am allergic also, when I eat too many I break out in hives....and. I body wants to break out in hives. That allergy mystery took years to solve. I eat very few eggs, van get away with it every once in awhile.Thanks, Bendigirl. The support is awesome. :)
Love the fact that you and your wife are up and running with all the great advice given here so far.
Post by: Monkey Uncle on September 08, 2015, 03:52:35 AM
I recommend chickens. Ducks are just too favored by predators. Right now I've got a HUGE Red-Tailed Hawk trying to eat my girls, so I've had to keep the girls penned in more and hang out with them outside with my rifle. You don't want that kind of trouble.
You do realize that all birds of prey are protected by federal law? The fine for killing a hawk costs a lot more than building an enclosure with a chicken wire top over it.
This. The fine is several thousand bucks.
You people 'effin kill me. Does no one do a google search before they start tippy-tapping here?
http://www.fws.gov/permits/
http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/113482/legal-elimination-of-hawks-and-owls
So have you actually obtained a depredation permit from the FWS?
Post by: wenchsenior on September 08, 2015, 07:15:46 AM
I recommend chickens. Ducks are just too favored by predators. Right now I've got a HUGE Red-Tailed Hawk trying to eat my girls, so I've had to keep the girls penned in more and hang out with them outside with my rifle. You don't want that kind of trouble.
You do realize that all birds of prey are protected by federal law? The fine for killing a hawk costs a lot more than building an enclosure with a chicken wire top over it.
This. The fine is several thousand bucks.
You people 'effin kill me. Does no one do a google search before they start tippy-tapping here?
http://www.fws.gov/permits/
http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/113482/legal-elimination-of-hawks-and-owls
So have you actually obtained a depredation permit from the FWS?
Heh. Don't need a google search with a research specialty in raptors. No, you should be fine with a depredation permit (although we raised free range chickens for years and never lost any to hawks, though RTHs nested in the area. Coops, though, can definitely be a challenge).
As to fines, I have worked with several FWS law enforcement agents who have busted people for illegal killing of raptors and made the fines stick in the thousands of dollars. So that definitely happens at least some of the time.
Post by: Faraday on September 08, 2015, 01:21:28 PM
I recommend chickens. Ducks are just too favored by predators. Right now I've got a HUGE Red-Tailed Hawk trying to eat my girls, so I've had to keep the girls penned in more and hang out with them outside with my rifle. You don't want that kind of trouble.
You do realize that all birds of prey are protected by federal law? The fine for killing a hawk costs a lot more than building an enclosure with a chicken wire top over it.
This. The fine is several thousand bucks.
You people 'effin kill me. Does no one do a google search before they start tippy-tapping here?
http://www.fws.gov/permits/
http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/113482/legal-elimination-of-hawks-and-owls
So have you actually obtained a depredation permit from the FWS?
Heh. Don't need a google search with a research specialty in raptors. No, you should be fine with a depredation permit (although we raised free range chickens for years and never lost any to hawks, though RTHs nested in the area. Coops, though, can definitely be a challenge).
As to fines, I have worked with several FWS law enforcement agents who have busted people for illegal killing of raptors and made the fines stick in the thousands of dollars. So that definitely happens at least some of the time.
You are already factually incorrect, so don't expect me to bow down in awe.
And BTW: we have totally hijacked this thread. Apologies to the OP.
Post by: PFHC on September 08, 2015, 02:43:45 PM
Kids, move your pissing contest some place that people give a shit about it. This thread is not that place.I recommend chickens. Ducks are just too favored by predators. Right now I've got a HUGE Red-Tailed Hawk trying to eat my girls, so I've had to keep the girls penned in more and hang out with them outside with my rifle. You don't want that kind of trouble.
You do realize that all birds of prey are protected by federal law? The fine for killing a hawk costs a lot more than building an enclosure with a chicken wire top over it.
This. The fine is several thousand bucks.
You people 'effin kill me. Does no one do a google search before they start tippy-tapping here?
http://www.fws.gov/permits/
http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/113482/legal-elimination-of-hawks-and-owls
So have you actually obtained a depredation permit from the FWS?
Heh. Don't need a google search with a research specialty in raptors. No, you should be fine with a depredation permit (although we raised free range chickens for years and never lost any to hawks, though RTHs nested in the area. Coops, though, can definitely be a challenge).
As to fines, I have worked with several FWS law enforcement agents who have busted people for illegal killing of raptors and made the fines stick in the thousands of dollars. So that definitely happens at least some of the time.
You are already factually incorrect, so don't expect me to bow down in awe.
And BTW: we have totally hijacked this thread. Apologies to the OP.
Back to groceries.
Have any of you gotten into foraging? Have you had luck with it? Is the effort worth the harvest? Is it a hobby or has it become a part of your diet?
Post by: Bracken_Joy on September 08, 2015, 03:12:49 PM
Have any of you gotten into foraging? Have you had luck with it? Is the effort worth the harvest? Is it a hobby or has it become a part of your diet?
Well, depends on your definition. Mushrooming is a pretty common hobby out here at the right season, so my family usually takes a trip out once per year. Obviously need to know what you're doing with mushrooms though, they can be dangerous! Early spring I'll go out for fiddleheads once or twice- they make a great stir fry, they're like asparagus. And of course in summer I pick blackberries, but I don't know how much that is "foraging" so much as "they are dang near everywhere and delicious".
We also hunt, fish, and crawdad.
Post by: swick on September 08, 2015, 03:14:42 PM
Post by: Thegoblinchief on September 08, 2015, 03:17:23 PM
Have any of you gotten into foraging? Have you had luck with it? Is the effort worth the harvest? Is it a hobby or has it become a part of your diet?
I've learned how to identify a lot of wild edibles but (in my case) there's not much near me in sufficient volume to make a special trip worth it. We will forage the odd raspberry or mulberry handful if we spot them out and about hiking.
There are gleanable apple trees around but usually they're so wormy and disease-riddled that any usable fruit takes a TON of work to get at. Really depends on where you live. It is worth learning about it - until you learn, you're blind to any potential bounty that's right in front of you. Many areas have wildcrafting classes - it's becoming a bit more popular lately.
Post by: pbkmaine on September 08, 2015, 03:21:10 PM
Post by: Bracken_Joy on September 08, 2015, 03:35:44 PM
This is another place where the local cooperative extension would have knowledge and/or resources. I know that where I was, Brunswick area, they would have nature walks and if you got the right naturalist, you could steer the conversation to foraging. The oldest and most entertaining book on the subject is "Stalking The Wild Asparagus" by Euell Gibbons. He wrote two others as well: "Stalking The Blue-Eyed Scallop" and "Stalking The Healthful Herbs". Also, on the book front, make sure you install Overdrive on your computer and/or tablet. The Maine library system has a subscription to this online resource. Install the app, type in your library card number, and you will have access to thousands of books.
Oh! Yes, now that pbkmaine mentiones it, I guess we do lots of "wild" (feral, more like) herbs, like chamomile, chicory, lemon balm, and mint.
Post by: PFHC on September 08, 2015, 06:44:05 PM
I would love to get into mushrooms. I met a 17 year old young man on the airplane once and he spoke about mushrooming in Maine. He said it was a mushroomers paradise. :) Said there are only about 20 species in Maine that are harmful, so it is not as dangerous as one would think. Obviously, you need to know what you're getting into... but, he was making the point that there is no need to be intimidated.Have any of you gotten into foraging? Have you had luck with it? Is the effort worth the harvest? Is it a hobby or has it become a part of your diet?
Well, depends on your definition. Mushrooming is a pretty common hobby out here at the right season, so my family usually takes a trip out once per year. Obviously need to know what you're doing with mushrooms though, they can be dangerous! Early spring I'll go out for fiddleheads once or twice- they make a great stir fry, they're like asparagus. And of course in summer I pick blackberries, but I don't know how much that is "foraging" so much as "they are dang near everywhere and delicious".
We also hunt, fish, and crawdad.
My son and I started getting into fishing just this year. The mackerel are supposed to be still running when I get home, so hopefully we can fill the freezer!
Post by: PFHC on September 08, 2015, 06:50:47 PM
There a great nature center just down the road from us that offering foraging classes. We have talked about going. We'll slap it on the to do list.Have any of you gotten into foraging? Have you had luck with it? Is the effort worth the harvest? Is it a hobby or has it become a part of your diet?
I've learned how to identify a lot of wild edibles but (in my case) there's not much near me in sufficient volume to make a special trip worth it. We will forage the odd raspberry or mulberry handful if we spot them out and about hiking.
There are gleanable apple trees around but usually they're so wormy and disease-riddled that any usable fruit takes a TON of work to get at. Really depends on where you live. It is worth learning about it - until you learn, you're blind to any potential bounty that's right in front of you. Many areas have wildcrafting classes - it's becoming a bit more popular lately.
Post by: PFHC on September 08, 2015, 06:55:43 PM
This is another place where the local cooperative extension would have knowledge and/or resources. I know that where I was, Brunswick area, they would have nature walks and if you got the right naturalist, you could steer the conversation to foraging. The oldest and most entertaining book on the subject is "Stalking The Wild Asparagus" by Euell Gibbons. He wrote two others as well: "Stalking The Blue-Eyed Scallop" and "Stalking The Healthful Herbs". Also, on the book front, make sure you install Overdrive on your computer and/or tablet. The Maine library system has a subscription to this online resource. Install the app, type in your library card number, and you will have access to thousands of books.pbk, you are the best! That Overdrive app sounds amazing! Been looking for a way to get books from the library in electronic form. This is perfect!
My folks used to read Euell. I'll have to check him out.
Post by: PFHC on September 08, 2015, 06:58:13 PM
]This is another place where the local cooperative extension would have knowledge and/or resources. I know that where I was, Brunswick area, they would have nature walks and if you got the right naturalist, you could steer the conversation to foraging. The oldest and most entertaining book on the subject is "Stalking The Wild Asparagus" by Euell Gibbons. He wrote two others as well: "Stalking The Blue-Eyed Scallop" and "Stalking The Healthful Herbs". Also, on the book front, make sure you install Overdrive on your computer and/or tablet. The Maine library system has a subscription to this online resource. Install the app, type in your library card number, and you will have access to thousands of books.
Oh! Yes, now that pbkmaine mentiones it, I guess we do lots of "wild" (feral, more like) herbs, like chamomile, chicory, lemon balm, and mint.
I would love to learn to harvest wild herbs. So much to learn!
Post by: pbkmaine on September 08, 2015, 07:36:05 PM
http://www.maine.gov/msl/topics/
Post by: PFHC on September 08, 2015, 08:20:11 PM
More on Overdrive and the Maine State Library System:You are unreal. Thanks! Just sent these links to my wife. This is great stuff.
http://www.maine.gov/msl/topics/
Post by: pbkmaine on September 08, 2015, 08:37:47 PM
Post by: PFHC on September 09, 2015, 06:26:40 AM
Oh, There's more. Most Maine libraries offer Family Museum and Park Passes. Just go to the circulation desk and ask for them. Maine libraries tend to be centers of community activities. Curtis Library, my old library in Brunswick, was amazing. DH and I could have spent every day there... Crafts Club, Great Books Club, Mystery Books Club. Not to mention the speakers. And if for some reason your community does not have a great library, check the surrounding area. Most libraries allow out-of-towners to belong, for a price. Curtis charges $65 per family per year. But considering the value you get, it's cheap.You're my new favorite person on the internet. Period.
Post by: pbkmaine on September 09, 2015, 06:50:03 AM
Post by: wenchsenior on September 09, 2015, 08:25:23 AM
More on Overdrive and the Maine State Library System:
http://www.maine.gov/msl/topics/
I haven't looked into the specific books they offer that might be of interest in this particular case, but anyone can get access to the Philadelphia electronic collection (Overdrive) with a 50$ annual membership. Whether it's worth it will depend on how much you use it, but it has dramatically increased my access to electronic books/audiobooks from the relatively small collection in my town.
You could browse, and see if it looks worth it.
http://freelibrary.lib.overdrive.com/32A80114-9D67-4F1E-A416-726507117812/10/50/en/Default.htm (ftp://freelibrary.lib.overdrive.com/32A80114-9D67-4F1E-A416-726507117812/10/50/en/Default.htm)
Post by: Kimchi Bleu on September 09, 2015, 09:42:57 AM
We eat a lot of rice, but hardly eat any beans. I do make chicken fried rice a lot. My last rice cooker went kaput so I invested in an Instant Pot. I love it but still have my old crock pot as well since I like to make my stock in that. One suggestion I have is to make a double batch of favorites. That way I can freeze it for future use. Easy to just take it out and warm it up.
Another suggestion is to have breakfast for dinner and to have a meatless meal. DH and kids don't feel full after a meatless meal so they will have a snack or two before going to bed so YMMV.
Post by: PFHC on September 09, 2015, 02:42:27 PM
I've been reading this thread with interest as I am trying to reduce our grocery spending as well. We have a few food allergies to deal with too. One question - have you tried an Asian market to see if you can get cheaper rice/nori/produce/tamari there? I pay a lot less for these items at my local Korean market.We'll check it out. Thanks!
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Another suggestion is to have breakfast for dinner and to have a meatless meal.We don't eat much meat, but the breakfast for dinner sounds fun. :) Thanks for the ideas!
Post by: Trudie on September 09, 2015, 02:50:02 PM
Eggs are my second suggestion. A cheap and complete protein. My lawn mower repair people have free-range chickens and sell theirs for $1.50/dozen. Can't beat it! I throw everything in eggs -- especially lots of veg.
I bought a neat Corelle soup mug with a lid and a vent in the top (which pops closed) for transporting soup to and from work for lunches.
As for where you shop -- I see you're a Sam's shopper. I'm a Costco "true believer." I also shop Aldi pretty heavily when we're close to one.
I've become more conscious of not wasting things -- even little bits of veg. That's why I like soup. If I have something that's about ready to go bad, but still okay I usually try to whip it up into something a freeze it so I don't have to throw food away.
Post by: PFHC on September 09, 2015, 07:33:26 PM
I didn't have time to navigate the whole thread, but my first nutritious/low-cost food idea is always soup. Meat takes on a minor role (if at all). I typically do a soup-making day and make 2-3 kinds, freeze lots of it for later. I like having one prep day. I cuts down on mess and when I'm chopping veggies I like to do them all at once.Sam's is the only option we have. No Costco with in 5 hours and no Aldi within 7!
Eggs are my second suggestion. A cheap and complete protein. My lawn mower repair people have free-range chickens and sell theirs for $1.50/dozen. Can't beat it! I throw everything in eggs -- especially lots of veg.
I bought a neat Corelle soup mug with a lid and a vent in the top (which pops closed) for transporting soup to and from work for lunches.
As for where you shop -- I see you're a Sam's shopper. I'm a Costco "true believer." I also shop Aldi pretty heavily when we're close to one.
I've become more conscious of not wasting things -- even little bits of veg. That's why I like soup. If I have something that's about ready to go bad, but still okay I usually try to whip it up into something a freeze it so I don't have to throw food away.
Post by: PFHC on October 03, 2015, 03:33:36 AM
Groceries: $750!
Dining out: $250 (BOO! HISS!!)
Apples: $330 (WHAT?!)
Total: $1330
Groceries: Fing (pr. effing, as in short for fucking) awesome. So stoked about this as it is a savings of $500/month!
Dining out:We did awesome until my parents came for a visit. As in $0 for the first 25 days of the month, then $50/day on average for the days they visited. :/ The big money came when we all went out to eat and we dropped $55/person on an amazing evening. It gave me a little heartburn to spend the money, but, not too much as the experience was awesome. We started the night having fresh river oysters on a deck over looking the bay listening to live music and enjoying a drink. That was followed by a nice walk by the water, then a four course meal at a five star restaurant in our town that specializes in fresh, local, organic, and housemade fare (so good!). We ended the night watching Phoenix (a great movie). So, we dumped some dough for sure... buuuut, made some awesome memories. :)
Apples: You may be wondering wtf, mate? Well, we went to a u-pick and picked 220 lbs of organic Macs! They normally go for $1.79/lb. We got ours for a $1.50, which is a great deal for Maine. This is a big tradition for us every year. We make applesauce and apple scrap vinegar. Tons of it. We made 13 gallons of applesauce and are estimating we will make 10 gallons of vinegar. We're going to try to sell 8 of the gallons of vinegar at $40/gallon (Bragg's goes for $50/gallon). By making $320 on the vinegar, that will bring the cost of the applesauce down to a paltry $.76/gallon! :)
That's it.
I am stoked. Taking the apples and annualizing the cost (even without selling the vinegar) brings our grocery bill for food this month down to $777! Which is a 48% reduction!!! WOOHOO!! Even with adding our nightmare dining out costs ($1027), we still come in WAY below our previous average. How'd we do it? We followed the GGP that I posted earlier. It worked like a charm, too.
Some highlights from September:
- Bought 3 butternut, 2 acorn squash at $1.29/squash, picked 8 volunteer Delcottas from our compost pile, and was gifted an enormous blue Hubbard. Baked and froze 4 of them for easy sides for my wife.
- Was gifted 3 gallons of canned tomatoes, 2 gallons of pickles, and 2 gallons of beans from my wife's parent's. They are two completely awesome old Mainers.
- Made a gallon of homemade ruby red sauerkraut from 2 $1.79 red cabbages. :)
- Made drop biscuits 100% from our pantry. Froze two family servings of them.
- Made a gallon of chicken broth from chicken leftovers and froze it.
- Sold $135 worth of quarter sawn red oak at $3/bf that I had sawn for $.70/bf.
- Sold a dining room table we inherited for $475. With that and some creative reusing of materials, we were able to redo our 9'6" x 10' master bedroom for a cost of $150! The work even included redesigning and repairing the bed I broke in half due to being drunk on hard cider. :p
Post by: Kimchi Bleu on October 03, 2015, 06:44:15 AM
Post by: cchrissyy on October 03, 2015, 12:34:12 PM
Post by: Goldielocks on October 03, 2015, 12:44:21 PM
I have never seen a dairy that was not 95% grass or silage based. Sometimes they add spent brewery grains or potatoe or other ag by products, but nothing I have a problem with. Eg I could see myself eating it, if I had a cows digestive abilities..
Maybe grass fed label us just a marketing gimmick? Small farm, no growth hormones,now those labels may have true meaning to you...
ETA...I wrote this before I read the RAW milk bit, which is a different food product from commercial 'grass fed' or 'organic' milk. My point is that organic, grass fed and regular milk are virtually identical..now... And it is all in the marketing.
RAW Milk yogurt is pretty dangerous, hard to make, etc.
Post by: Faraday on October 03, 2015, 12:58:05 PM
Quote
Sold $135 worth of quarter sawn red oak at $3/bf that I had sawn for $.70/bf.
Hey PFHC, can you describe how you cut your red oak? What tools do you use, and what size are the pieces you sold?
Post by: PFHC on October 03, 2015, 06:21:52 PM
RAW Milk yogurt is pretty dangerous, hard to make, etc.We have been making raw yogurt and have been pleased with the results. We feel very comfortable and safe making our own raw milk yogurt and here's why:
The raw milk we get in our area is commercially available and comes from a small, solely grass-fed farm an hour from the house. The milk is analyzed for bacterial content, ensuring that the only bacteria present is beneficial. This is closely regulated by our state government. The yogurt starter we use comes from another small farm 20 minutes from the house and is unpasteurized. It is commercially available, as well, and is subject to the same regulations. Again, we feel very safe about it. Additionally, we do a lot of canning and fermentation and are quite familiar with what it takes to properly sanitize the equipment we use to prevent any contamination by harmful bacteria/molds/viruses/etc.
As a result of the state regulation and our familiarity with sanitization, we feel very comfortable and safe making our own raw milk yogurt. That said, thanks so much for your concern. :)
Post by: pbkmaine on October 03, 2015, 06:25:34 PM
Post by: PFHC on October 03, 2015, 06:44:57 PM
That's awesome!Thanks! We're pretty dang stoked. :)
Quote
I was looking at my food spend for the last year. My MIL had moved in with us and DH's friend spent 6 months with us as well. Food bill doubled if not tripled for that time. MIL is a food hoarder. Finally had to tell her that I would not be going outside my budget anymore. I don't know how she is going to handle this, but I can't continue to spend so much $$ on food. We literally are bursting at the seams with it!You could ask her to purchase the items she intends on using. Or, just use some good old straight forward talk about it. Let her know your expectations on food spending and how it relates to your financial goals and the reasoning behind all of it. Take a firm stand and stick to your guns.
Post by: PFHC on October 03, 2015, 06:47:47 PM
that's fabulous!Thanks! We're pumped!
Post by: PFHC on October 03, 2015, 09:53:08 PM
Great results!Thanks, pbk!
Post by: Goldielocks on October 04, 2015, 12:31:41 AM
RAW Milk yogurt is pretty dangerous, hard to make, etc.We have been making raw yogurt and have been pleased with the results. We feel very comfortable and safe making our own raw milk yogurt and here's why:
The raw milk we get in our area is commercially available and comes from a small, solely grass-fed farm an hour from the house. The milk is analyzed for bacterial content, ensuring that the only bacteria present is beneficial. This is closely regulated by our state government. The yogurt starter we use comes from another small farm 20 minutes from the house and is unpasteurized. It is commercially available, as well, and is subject to the same regulations. Again, we feel very safe about it. Additionally, we do a lot of canning and fermentation and are quite familiar with what it takes to properly sanitize the equipment we use to prevent any contamination by harmful bacteria/molds/viruses/etc.
As a result of the state regulation and our familiarity with sanitization, we feel very comfortable and safe making our own raw milk yogurt. That said, thanks so much for your concern. :)
Raw milk yogurt is very difficult to make first because the normal recipe for yogurt involves heating so that the milk protein changes, to make it easier to set. When I reviewed how startups with cow shares were attempting it, this was a big technical issue, and why most ended up heating the milk anyway, or adding dry milk or gelatin or processed gums.
How do you get around that step?
I will assume that you have the experience to know if a culture is off, and I agree that making it yourself is safer than buying it...for that reason...
Post by: PFHC on October 04, 2015, 05:22:39 AM
When I reviewed how startups with cow shares were attempting it, this was a big technical issue, and why most ended up heating the milk anyway, or adding dry milk or gelatin or processed gums.We didn't worry about the yogurt setting. We usually eat it more like sour cream, i.e. as a topping for potatoes, rice, etc. When it is kind of soupy it mixes in nicely and tastes great.
How do you get around that step?
Post by: daymare on October 04, 2015, 09:36:58 AM
Quote
I would love to get into mushrooms. I met a 17 year old young man on the airplane once and he spoke about mushrooming in Maine. He said it was a mushroomers paradise. :) Said there are only about 20 species in Maine that are harmful, so it is not as dangerous as one would think. Obviously, you need to know what you're getting into... but, he was making the point that there is no need to be intimidated.PFHC - you need to meet some Russians. My family and I would always spend most of our late August/early fall weekends picking mushrooms. So I completely know mushrooms and what's good and what isn't - it's pretty common among Russians to pick them. (And this is all despite the fact that the whole family doesn't eat mushrooms - it's super fun, and all our friends loved us (and we would send back dried mushrooms to my grandparents in Russia). We used this book - http://www.amazon.com/National-Audubon-Society-American-Mushrooms/dp/0394519922 to learn about new mushrooms.
I know people (who haven't grown up picking them) are super afraid of wild mushrooms and them being poisonous. My husband was quite reluctant (and I was really offended) to try an amazing mushroom I found when we were vacationing in Yellowstone with friends last year. But it's actually not so hard to tell which mushrooms are good, and there are heuristics you can use. Basically, almost all mushrooms with sponges are good. One (bitter mushroom) has a pinkish sponge and if you put your tongue on the sponge, it's bitter - but it's not poisonous or anything, just not tasty to eat. Some of the webbed mushrooms are good (especially for pickling) but a lot aren't, especially the ones that are super spindly looking, and the colorful ones with white spots (and sometimes a ring on the stalk) are SUPER poisonous. The good mushrooms looks good - for instance, I'm attaching the King Bolete, which is basically the best mushroom, and it looks beautiful - thick stalk, great colors on the head. It's a super fun family activity to head to the woods and pick mushrooms, so I highly recommend it, if you can find someone (probably a Russian) that can teach you about them.
Post by: pbkmaine on October 04, 2015, 11:21:12 AM
http://www.mainelymushrooms.org
Post by: PFHC on October 04, 2015, 02:35:01 PM
Thanks for the information! I'm definitely going to check this out from the library when I get home.QuoteI would love to get into mushrooms. I met a 17 year old young man on the airplane once and he spoke about mushrooming in Maine. He said it was a mushroomers paradise. :) Said there are only about 20 species in Maine that are harmful, so it is not as dangerous as one would think. Obviously, you need to know what you're getting into... but, he was making the point that there is no need to be intimidated.PFHC - you need to meet some Russians. My family and I would always spend most of our late August/early fall weekends picking mushrooms. So I completely know mushrooms and what's good and what isn't - it's pretty common among Russians to pick them. (And this is all despite the fact that the whole family doesn't eat mushrooms - it's super fun, and all our friends loved us (and we would send back dried mushrooms to my grandparents in Russia). We used this book - http://www.amazon.com/National-Audubon-Society-American-Mushrooms/dp/0394519922 to learn about new mushrooms.
I know people (who haven't grown up picking them) are super afraid of wild mushrooms and them being poisonous. My husband was quite reluctant (and I was really offended) to try an amazing mushroom I found when we were vacationing in Yellowstone with friends last year. But it's actually not so hard to tell which mushrooms are good, and there are heuristics you can use. Basically, almost all mushrooms with sponges are good. One (bitter mushroom) has a pinkish sponge and if you put your tongue on the sponge, it's bitter - but it's not poisonous or anything, just not tasty to eat. Some of the webbed mushrooms are good (especially for pickling) but a lot aren't, especially the ones that are super spindly looking, and the colorful ones with white spots (and sometimes a ring on the stalk) are SUPER poisonous. The good mushrooms looks good - for instance, I'm attaching the King Bolete, which is basically the best mushroom, and it looks beautiful - thick stalk, great colors on the head. It's a super fun family activity to head to the woods and pick mushrooms, so I highly recommend it, if you can find someone (probably a Russian) that can teach you about them.
I've been infatuated with the idea of foraging for years... just been too busy raising little kids, working on our house, and having adventures to get into it. I think the timing is right now. I'm psyched!!
Post by: PFHC on October 04, 2015, 02:41:02 PM
PS - We did heat it to 105F in our dehydrator. Warm enough to activate the culture, but too cool to kill any of it off.RAW Milk yogurt is pretty dangerous, hard to make, etc.We have been making raw yogurt and have been pleased with the results. We feel very comfortable and safe making our own raw milk yogurt and here's why:
The raw milk we get in our area is commercially available and comes from a small, solely grass-fed farm an hour from the house. The milk is analyzed for bacterial content, ensuring that the only bacteria present is beneficial. This is closely regulated by our state government. The yogurt starter we use comes from another small farm 20 minutes from the house and is unpasteurized. It is commercially available, as well, and is subject to the same regulations. Again, we feel very safe about it. Additionally, we do a lot of canning and fermentation and are quite familiar with what it takes to properly sanitize the equipment we use to prevent any contamination by harmful bacteria/molds/viruses/etc.
As a result of the state regulation and our familiarity with sanitization, we feel very comfortable and safe making our own raw milk yogurt. That said, thanks so much for your concern. :)
Raw milk yogurt is very difficult to make first because the normal recipe for yogurt involves heating so that the milk protein changes, to make it easier to set. When I reviewed how startups with cow shares were attempting it, this was a big technical issue, and why most ended up heating the milk anyway, or adding dry milk or gelatin or processed gums.
How do you get around that step?
I will assume that you have the experience to know if a culture is off, and I agree that making it yourself is safer than buying it...for that reason...
Post by: PFHC on October 04, 2015, 02:44:50 PM
http://mushroom-collecting.compbk, you're an absolute fountain of useful knowledge. Thanks.
http://www.mainelymushrooms.org
Post by: pbkmaine on October 04, 2015, 04:28:11 PM
Post by: PFHC on October 04, 2015, 05:15:50 PM
Any time. The second link, to the Maine Mycological Association, looks particularly interesting.Ya, I emailed them already to get some information. Sounds like they are active near the midcoast, which could be cool. Probably wouldn't do an hour drive, but would be interested if it was within 20-40 minutes.
Post by: lucky-girl on October 09, 2015, 12:44:34 PM
Any time. The second link, to the Maine Mycological Association, looks particularly interesting.
Thanks for the links. I've got their walk in Yarmouth next weekend on my calendar!
Its great to see some fellow mainers on the forum.
Post by: pbkmaine on October 12, 2015, 09:58:09 AM
Post by: lucky-girl on October 25, 2015, 05:52:28 AM
Looking forward to being more involved with the group next summer- thanks for introducing them to me.
Hopefully this new knowledge will ultimately lead to some foraging activity for food, and relevance to this thread, but no matter what we'll enjoy the chance to get outdoors and observe the world.
Post by: pbkmaine on October 26, 2015, 06:33:57 AM
Post by: PFHC on August 31, 2016, 01:36:47 AM