I envy the animals, they don't have to work and their life is not about money.

[QueyWet]

I hate how everything in life is about money.
The only thing that doesn't cost money is air.
Money is the only thing that matters to humans.
If you stop working and have no money you will eventually starve to death.
Money is everyhthing, from the moment we are born to the grave.

For the animals money doesn't exist.
The animals don't need work.
They only need to find food and mate.
I wish I was an apex predator like a bald eagle or something.
Being human sucks.

[Here4theGB]

Money only sucks when you don't have any.  A favorite character once said:  "Anybody tells you money is the root of all evil, doesn't fuckin' have any."

[Sailor Sam]

Hey internet friend, I've seen your posts 'round here. Based on what I've been reading, you seem massively unhappy. Far be it from me to categorize anyone over the internet, while lacking any sort of credentials - but I think you need things beyond which this community can provide you. I really recommend at least exploring therapy.

[CheapScholar]

No one is stopping you from starting a commune.  Buy some cheap land and live like an animal if you want.

[driftwood]

I get your sentiments. Hell, even if you buy land in America, you still have to continually spend money to keep it. So even to set up a mostly self-reliant existence in this country requires an eternal outflow of cash. Maybe if we got rid of property tax then we could get back to really, really owning some land and having that if you lost everything else.

But the animal thing... the same wishing that would make you an apex predator in this wonderful animal kingdom could make you born into a rich family with no concerns for money. So if you want a more realistic approach... ants don't worry about money, but the anteater doesn't give a shit about slurping them up as snacks either.

[Here4theGB]

Hey internet friend, I've seen your posts 'round here. Based on what I've been reading, you seem massively unhappy. Far be it from me to categorize anyone over the internet, while lacking any sort of credentials - but I think you need things beyond which this community can provide you. I really recommend at least exploring therapy.

Not to throw gas on the fire, but reading the other posts of OP, how exactly would someone like this PAY for therapy?  Late 20's, minimum wage job (I assume has no benefits), no health insurance, etc......

[solon]

Animals live cruel, nasty lives. They eat only what they can kill - unless they are eaten first.

Ever wonder why you don't see any elderly animals? It's because they've all been eaten.

Nature is exceedingly tough to animals, plants, humans, and even to itself. Humans have fortunately been able to tame a little bit of nature and as such, we have better lives than the animals. It's true that money is required, but that is the cost of taming nature.

[QueyWet]

No one is stopping you from starting a commune.  Buy some cheap land and live like an animal if you want.

Notice the ***BUY*** some land part.
And even if I did came up with the money growing food, like everything else costs money.

[rantk81]

The concept of money is fantastic.  It is a medium that allows for storing the ability to exchange goods and services!  No other animals have this ability!

[QueyWet]

Hey internet friend, I've seen your posts 'round here. Based on what I've been reading, you seem massively unhappy. Far be it from me to categorize anyone over the internet, while lacking any sort of credentials - but I think you need things beyond which this community can provide you. I really recommend at least exploring therapy.

Not to throw gas on the fire, but reading the other posts of OP, how exactly would someone like this PAY for therapy?  Late 20's, minimum wage job (I assume has no benefits), no health insurance, etc......

Exactly.
Therapy, like everything else costs money.
And in my perosnal opinion it's a waste of money and time.
Those therapists are greedy and care only about money .
If they really cared about "helping people" they'd do it for free, not for $100 an hour.
As far as i'm concerned going to a therapist is like setting up a campfire and throwing your money in it

[achvfi]

Money is just a means to an end. Focus on reaching that end. Reading many of your questions on the forum, it seems to me you need help. Like many who replied to you before, my suggestion is to seek counselling from professional. 

You may be at a low point in your life, take it one step at a time. There is no other way. When feel you are stuck, keep telling yourself "Step by step".

[Sailor Sam]

Hey internet friend, I've seen your posts 'round here. Based on what I've been reading, you seem massively unhappy. Far be it from me to categorize anyone over the internet, while lacking any sort of credentials - but I think you need things beyond which this community can provide you. I really recommend at least exploring therapy.

Not to throw gas on the fire, but reading the other posts of OP, how exactly would someone like this PAY for therapy?  Late 20's, minimum wage job (I assume has no benefits), no health insurance, etc......

Exactly.
Therapy, like everything else costs money.
And in my perosnal opinion it's a waste of money and time.
Those therapists are greedy and care only about money .
If they really cared about "helping people" they'd do it for free, not for $100 an hour.
As far as i'm concerned going to a therapist is like setting up a campfire and vuening your money in it

There are clinics that have sliding scale, or community level therapy. A quick internet search for 'YourLocation + sliding scale therapy' will get you results. In the very worst case scenario, emergency helplines are free.

I was suicidal, once. I sounded a lot like you. I'm sorry you're in pain, but I also learned a long time ago not to help people more than they're willing to help themselves.

[wageslave23]

You're young, most people go through a time when their life is pretty shitty for one reason or another.  The key is to know that your life will not always be the way it is today.  Although it may not seem like it, your life in 10 yrs will be completely different than it is today.  Make good decisions career wise and in 10 yrs from now you will laugh about how you were stressing out about money now.  Play the long game.  I used to get stressed out over $100, now I try not to even let $ cross my mind. 

[Cromacster]

Wild animals are also constantly in a state of alert because they could be killed by another animal in an instant.  They also don't give a fuck if you scream while they eat you alive.

Animals are cool and all, but I'd rather be a human living with some semblence of a society.

[CheapScholar]

No one is stopping you from starting a commune.  Buy some cheap land and live like an animal if you want.

Notice the ***BUY*** some land part.
And even if I did came up with the money growing food, like everything else costs money.

Well I don’t know where you live but I’d submit to you that if one really wanted to buy cheap land in the US, one could buy a nice chunk of land for $30,000.  Hell, look on Zillow in northern Michigan right now!  Even the biggest fuck ups I know can save up $30,000 working part time for a few years.  You could construct a yurt or build a cabin and your property taxes would probably be like $200. 

I’m not actually suggesting people live like that, but it’s probably the closest to animal living you could get.

Like others said, being jealous of animals is rather absurd.  Most animals spend their lives constantly looking for food and live in constant fear of being eaten by something else.

[simonsez]

Nothing stopping you from running thru the woods, nekkid and shoeless, hunting down and eating animals raw, and sleeping in a cave. Go do that.

Also read up on Daniel Suelo who lives in a cave with no money. https://www.becomingminimalist.com/the-man-who-quit-money-an-interview-with-daniel-suelo/
From the article:
"When I first heard the story of Daniel Suelo, I was immediately intrigued. After all, Daniel lives entirely without money and has done so for the past 12 years. In 2000, he put his entire life savings in a phone booth, walked away, and has lived moneyless ever since. Most frequently, he lives in the caves and wilderness of Utah where he eats wild vegetation, scavenges roadkill, pulls food from dumpsters, and is sometimes fed by friends and strangers. Daniel proudly boasts that he does not take food stamps or government handouts."

He quit doing that a few years ago to take care of his parents and uses money to pay for their care.  I respect what he did on myriad levels but what's the point of escaping from the vicegrip of society if it prevents you from doing basic things like taking care of family members (which shows the cold, hard truth of how scalable that style of living is to more segments of society outside of healthy adults with survival skills).

I do think his experiment proves (and really drives home) at least that you don't require a lot of money to live.  So why not have your cake and eat it, too? i.e. Enjoy the benefits of living in a society AND don't spend a lot of money.  Learn, read, become as self-sufficient as you can, grow/hunt/gather as high a proportion of your calories if that's your thing.

[Dr. Pepper]

No offense but you seem to have a very elementary understanding about the topics your posting on, like 5th grade level. Maybe after we are done discussing how you would like to be an animal so you don't have to go to work, we can talk about what your life will be like after you win the lottery? Money is just a means to facilitate exchange. What your really lamenting is you don't have skills that are of value, which is under your control. No one is going to hand you anything.

I hate how everything in life is about money.
The only thing that doesn't cost money is air.
Money is the only thing that matters to humans.
If you stop working and have no money you will eventually starve to death.
Money is everyhthing, from the moment we are born to the grave.

For the animals money doesn't exist.
The animals don't need work.
They only need to find food and mate.
I wish I was an apex predator like a bald eagle or something.
Being human sucks.

[John Galt incarnate!]

Money only sucks when you don't have any.  A favorite character once said:  "Anybody tells you money is the root of all evil, doesn't fuckin' have any."

"Money doesn't buy happiness but it can get me a new Cadillac so I can drive around and look for it."

^

A comedian said something like this

[John Galt incarnate!]

I hate how everything in life is about money.
The only thing that doesn't cost money is air.
Money is the only thing that matters to humans.
If you stop working and have no money you will eventually starve to death.
Money is everyhthing, from the moment we are born to the grave.

For the animals money doesn't exist.
The animals don't need work.
They only need to find food and mate.
I wish I was an apex predator like a bald eagle or something.
Being human sucks.

I think that this wildman, who hasn't bathed in 60 years, lives a life close to that of animals.

[traveler]

May I recommend “Sapiens” by Yuval Noah Harari. He explains many concepts we Homo Sapiens take for granted, including money. After reading it, we could discuss the merit of the concept of money.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0062316117/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_pCF3CbM8S3WE7

Many human inventions are fascinating, and only with perspective we can properly asses whether they are of value or not. I suggest to the OP to go check it out from the library. It’s free.

[APowers]

I hate how everything in life is about money.
This is a matter of perspective. Money is merely a way to exchange what you have (that I want) for what I have (that you want).
The only thing that doesn't cost money is air.
Happiness, knowledge, conversation, and water are also generally free. Food, too, if you aren't too proud to get it from the back of the supermarket instead of the front.
Money is the only thing that matters to humans.
Actually, no. Power matters to humans, survival matters to humans, love matters to humans, humans matter to humans. On the list of "things that actually matter to humans", money is pretty far down the list.
If you stop working and have no money you will eventually starve to death.
You can, but it's awful hard to do in this country. The government literally offers food to any legitimately poor person, for the cost of a bit of paperwork; and many organizations give food to anyone who asks, without even bothering about that.
Money is everything, from the moment we are born to the grave.
Eh. Maybe it is to you. You haven't made it to the grave yet, though.

For the animals money doesn't exist.
Yeah, neither does philosophy or a computer in their pocket.
The animals don't need work.
Actually, no. Animals are constantly working to ensure they have food to eat. Unless you're a household pet, in which case, you're dependent on your human's money, lol.
They only need to find food and mate.
What a life! You do nothing but search the area constantly for something to eat while the constant not-quite-hunger gnaws at you, hoping that you'll stumble across another animal to subdue into sexual submission.
I wish I was an apex predator like a bald eagle or something.
Being human sucks.
Dude. You ARE an apex predator. Not only that, but you're an apex predator with access to the ideas and strategies of a billion other apex predators who've gone before you. What more do you want?


Please, get help. If you think therapy is a waste of money, and/or if you don't have any money, please sign up for medicaid and find a therapist who accepts it. Maybe you'll hate it and it'll be a waste of time, but everyone I know who has used a therapist to help them with depression-like issues has been better for it, so at least find a way to try it for free.

If you want financial/career/life advice from us here on the forum, write out a case study. That way we can be better able to give you actionable advice. There are some stupendously wise folks on here who are unbelievably happy to share their knowledge with anyone who asks. I'm constantly blown away by the level of advice given out like candy at a parade here.

[One]

If you live in the usa you are already relatively rich. It’s one of the the only countries where all the poor people are fat.

[englishteacheralex]

I hate how everything in life is about money.
This is a matter of perspective. Money is merely a way to exchange what you have (that I want) for what I have (that you want).
The only thing that doesn't cost money is air.
Happiness, knowledge, conversation, and water are also generally free. Food, too, if you aren't too proud to get it from the back of the supermarket instead of the front.
Money is the only thing that matters to humans.
Actually, no. Power matters to humans, survival matters to humans, love matters to humans, humans matter to humans. On the list of "things that actually matter to humans", money is pretty far down the list.
If you stop working and have no money you will eventually starve to death.
You can, but it's awful hard to do in this country. The government literally offers food to any legitimately poor person, for the cost of a bit of paperwork; and many organizations give food to anyone who asks, without even bothering about that.
Money is everything, from the moment we are born to the grave.
Eh. Maybe it is to you. You haven't made it to the grave yet, though.

For the animals money doesn't exist.
Yeah, neither does philosophy or a computer in their pocket.
The animals don't need work.
Actually, no. Animals are constantly working to ensure they have food to eat. Unless you're a household pet, in which case, you're dependent on your human's money, lol.
They only need to find food and mate.
What a life! You do nothing but search the area constantly for something to eat while the constant not-quite-hunger gnaws at you, hoping that you'll stumble across another animal to subdue into sexual submission.
I wish I was an apex predator like a bald eagle or something.
Being human sucks.
Dude. You ARE an apex predator. Not only that, but you're an apex predator with access to the ideas and strategies of a billion other apex predators who've gone before you. What more do you want?


Please, get help. If you think therapy is a waste of money, and/or if you don't have any money, please sign up for medicaid and find a therapist who accepts it. Maybe you'll hate it and it'll be a waste of time, but everyone I know who has used a therapist to help them with depression-like issues has been better for it, so at least find a way to try it for free.

If you want financial/career/life advice from us here on the forum, write out a case study. That way we can be better able to give you actionable advice. There are some stupendously wise folks on here who are unbelievably happy to share their knowledge with anyone who asks. I'm constantly blown away by the level of advice given out like candy at a parade here.

This made me snort with appreciative laughter. Such good advice given out like candy at a parade. Usually within half an hour of posting, too.

[Turnbull]

I wish I was an apex predator like a bald eagle or something.

The bald eagle does a lot of scavenging.

https://www.popsci.com/bald-eagles-facts

What you want to be is either an African crowned, golden, or martial eagle.

[partgypsy]

I love all these responses. Thanks Spartana, Apowers, turnbull.  Money is a human invention, a means for storing value. It is neither bad nor good. 

As others have said, you always do have the choice to live like an animal, whose lives as someone else said are nasty, brutish, and short. Not comfortable, or "easy".  No one is stopping you from being a bum in the US, or moving to another country and becoming a monk. There are options if you seek that way of life. Many people in developing countries live closer to that life. 

Only thing I agree with you, is that I learn a lot from animals. I admire the way that animals live, fully, and directly. They are not self-conscious and self-absorbed in the way people are. Whenever I feel sorry for myself I remind myself a bird can be dying freezing on a branch in winter, and never know a moment of self-pity. 

But if I was an animal, I probably wouldn't have the internal reflection to have that thought. So being a human, we can use our observations from the natural world, whether it is other people, animals, or natural processes (Taoism) and use those insights to become a better person or at least have a more appropriate way of thinking.

Having a philosophy, and meaning in life is a lifelong process. It neither begins nor ends with money.   

[brute]

I'm curious, QW, have you seen actual hardship? Have you ever gone really, truly hungry? Have you ever been beaten by a gang until you couldn't walk, then had your wallet thrown in your face because there wasn't anything in it of value? Been sick to the point of death but unable to call for medical assistance? I have, and let me tell you. It blows.

I'm not going to tell you to look on the bright side of things. You're depressed. There is no bright side. Everything hurts. I get it. But here's the deal.

Death is winning. Do something.

Get a cheap tent, dumpster dive enough canned rations for 2 months, steal a can opener, and live in the woods for two months. Report back at the end of it. You'll be a new person. Or you won't be. Live free or don't.

[QueyWet]

I'm curious, QW, have you seen actual hardship? Have you ever gone really, truly hungry? Have you ever been beaten by a gang until you couldn't walk, then had your wallet thrown in your face because there wasn't anything in it of value? Been sick to the point of death but unable to call for medical assistance? I have, and let me tell you. It blows.

I'm not going to tell you to look on the bright side of things. You're depressed. There is no bright side. Everything hurts. I get it. But here's the deal.

Death is winning. Do something.

Get a cheap tent, dumpster dive enough canned rations for 2 months, steal a can opener, and live in the woods for two months. Report back at the end of it. You'll be a new person. Or you won't be. Live free or don't.

First of all I am sorry to hear those bad things happened to you.
They haven't happened to me.
Sometimes I cut back on food and  eat one meal a day so I go to sleep hungry.
And I grind at a work I hate for a minimum wage job and I see no future for myself as I cannot save anything due to rent.

Did you grow up in a poot city?
And did you manage to get out of that situation, snd if so how did you do it?

[TheContinentalOp]

I get your sentiments. Hell, even if you buy land in America, you still have to continually spend money to keep it. So even to set up a mostly self-reliant existence in this country requires an eternal outflow of cash. Maybe if we got rid of property tax then we could get back to really, really owning some land and having that if you lost everything else.

Aren't there some areas of Alaska with no property tax?

[driftwood]

I get your sentiments. Hell, even if you buy land in America, you still have to continually spend money to keep it. So even to set up a mostly self-reliant existence in this country requires an eternal outflow of cash. Maybe if we got rid of property tax then we could get back to really, really owning some land and having that if you lost everything else.

Aren't there some areas of Alaska with no property tax?

There might be! There's hope after all.

[Maenad]

Those therapists are greedy and care only about money .
If they really cared about "helping people" they'd do it for free, not for $100 an hour.
As far as i'm concerned going to a therapist is like setting up a campfire and throwing your money in it

That is profoundly unfair and wrong - I don't know of any group of people where ALL have a particular negative trait. A large number of therapists charge on a sliding scale like others have mentioned, so people like me willingly pay $100 an hour to help subsidize others who can't afford that.

If you feel that therapy can't help you that's your opinion and that's OK, but claiming all therapists are greedy and only care about money is character assassination and is not acceptable.

[Cassie]

Therapist’s need to pay their bills too. Also they require malpractice insurance and have to rent office space. Having a practice isn’t cheap. Do you work for free?  For those suggesting cheap places in the states he lives in another country.

[Rosy]

I'm curious, QW, have you seen actual hardship? Have you ever gone really, truly hungry? Have you ever been beaten by a gang until you couldn't walk, then had your wallet thrown in your face because there wasn't anything in it of value? Been sick to the point of death but unable to call for medical assistance? I have, and let me tell you. It blows.

I'm not going to tell you to look on the bright side of things. You're depressed. There is no bright side. Everything hurts. I get it. But here's the deal.

Death is winning. Do something.

Get a cheap tent, dumpster dive enough canned rations for 2 months, steal a can opener, and live in the woods for two months. Report back at the end of it. You'll be a new person. Or you won't be. Live free or don't.

First of all I am sorry to hear those bad things happened to you.
They haven't happened to me.
Sometimes I cut back on food and  eat one meal a day so I go to sleep hungry.
And I grind at a work I hate for a minimum wage job and I see no future for myself as I cannot save anything due to rent.

Did you grow up in a poot city?
And did you manage to get out of that situation, snd if so how did you do it?

The way you get out of any intolerable situation in any part of the world is that you begin scheming relentlessly 24/7 about how to remove yourself from your current situation.
You decide that in order to reach your goals it may well be necessary to go to bed hungry every night and that not only are you OK with it, but you will gladly do it - because it is your only way out. Yeah:)

You know that there will be breakfast for you the next morning, unlike millions of people who actually do starve to death every day - you are soo lucky!
You do have money at your disposal - you just need to learn how to use it wisely to get what you want out of life.
You do have food and a roof over your head - not a bad start!
Much better than the homeless I see here in one of the richest countries of the world. The streets here are not safe if you are one of the unfortunate ones.

It will begin to dawn on you that if you had another hateful part-time job you just might get ahead. If you were truly desperate you might think about where and how you could live rent free and save all that rent money to get the hell out of wherever you are now.
You recognize that what you are presently doing isn't enough and will never get you anywhere - which you have and which happens to be the first step in improving your future life.

You start doing unusual out of the box things, crazy stuff other people laugh at to save even more.
You slowly begin to understand that money is your friend - not your enemy.

Think of it this way would you kick a friend in the teeth for building a good future and call all his friends greedy and disreputable for actually building a good life such as you yourself aspire to?

Many of us in this forum have overcome the odds which were not in our favor or dug ourselves out of deep dark holes - that is just life. Wouldn't you rather be the badass who survived and thrived and found a way out of their misery despite the odds against them?

All you need to do is change your perspective so you are no longer blind to your own opportunities.
You have youth and health and time on your side - not everybody has that.
It is time that you realized how much you have going for you.

Take responsibility for your actions or inaction, the only one who can change your life is you - period.
If you do not and just keep talking trash instead of actually starting to take a baby step or two to better your situation then next year you will be exactly where you are now.
How you live for the rest of your life is entirely up to you.

You can do it - people all over the world do it every day, so can you. It doesn't really matter where you live.

[dougules]

Can you afford to see a doctor?  If you can, I really think you should.  You sound like you probably have a mood disorder which is a legitimate health problem no different than having an infection or cancer.   

[brute]

I grew up in one of the poorest towns in America. So, I mean, still wealthy compared to much of the world, but not great. They filmed portions of the movie "Poor White Trash" in the rich neighborhoods back home.

I got out by saying "F&ck it" and moving to a new city and making it work. I saved $600 over 8 months (difficult to do on the $130 per week I earned whilst paying rent, most I was able to get back then), got a ticket to CA and a free backpack for all my belongings and set out on the adventure of a lifetime. It was pretty awful at first. Sleeping wherever I wouldn't be bothered for a few hours, working down on the docks loading and unloading, day labor, shelters, etc. But I was free.

I got turned down by almost every job imaginable, but finally convinced someone to hire me to work at a copy shop. Worked as much overtime as they would let me, got promoted a few times, then left that to work in a tech company cleaning phones to resale. There's a lot of ear wax out there. Gross. I parlayed that into running their entire IT dept, living in Amsterdam and Singapore for a while, traveling all over the world.

I decided to go back to school, that job fired me, then rehired me as a contractor for 3x my old rate about 30 minutes later when they couldn't figure out how to fix stuff. I left a very toxic relationship during that period (it was bad for both of us, some things just aren't meant to be), got into grad school at one of the top schools in the country, and graduated near the top of my class. I became a nationally ranked strongman competitor and met my wife during that period.

From there I founded the data science team at one of the nation's top research labs, parlayed that into Director of Analytics at another of their facilities, and now I'm principal data scientist for a major healthcare provider out East.

I guess the biggest thing I did was take chances, bite off too much to chew, and then make it work. I allotted 30 minutes per day to read fiction or do something else non-productive. All other waking hours were dedicated to learning, strength training, or work. 15.5 hours a day of full out effort can take you places. Don't get me wrong, I finally got burned out about 6 months ago and I'm now healing up from it. Almost back to normal with a little more self care built into my schedule. But I still don't allot more than 90 minutes a day for non-productive activity. Rest is good, but too much spirals into deep depression.

I should note that I don't count time spent with my wife, or time spent hiking or exercising as downtime. It's part of being a functional human and having a satisfying life and relationship. Reading, TV, video games, that sort of thing is what I keep a tight reign on.

[Villanelle]

I know you shot down therapy, OP, but you have said in the past that you get financial assistance from your parents.  Hopefully they would pay for medical care if they pay for other things, and therapy is medical care.  If for some reason they won't assist you, perhaps you can make other cuts.  (You've started a fair amount of posts in your short times, but never done a case study, so no one can help you with specific advice.  Yes, a case study is a fair amount of work, just as reading the blog from the beginning is, and you seem to resist doing actual work and putting in effort, but it might actually get you some useful practical information of the kind that isn't likely to come from your many vague, glum posts.) If you can't make cuts, you may be able to seek out care at a local university, with students working to get enough hours for licensure.

You insult all therapists as "greedy", which is a gross and incorrect generalization.  In addition to simply being incorrect, it's an ugly stereotype and carrying those around does little for one's soul, and is damaging in other ways as well.

I agree that it really does seem like you have some significant depression issues.  That may also what is making you a bit negative and kind of mean.  Not all therapists are greedy.  Not all people care only about money.  These sort of beliefs are very off-putting and are going to prevent you from making lasting, healthy relationships with good people (the kind who care about decidedly more than money).  They are going to prevent you from forming a solid social network.  They are going to prevent from getting and keeping good job, and from advancing professionally.  Life and the bad things currently in it aren't just happening to you.  You can control over a lot of things that I strongly suspect you dismiss as fate and luck.  (Fate and luck are very real, too, but not worth spending much time and energy on as they aren't the parts of your world you can fix.) You can work on your mental health, but you have to be willing to get past your preconceived notions, and you have to be willing to put in the work.  Good, productive therapy is hard.  You can work on your finances, but you have to be willing to put in the work.  Evaluating every penny of your spending is hard, as is making big choices to better your situations (getting roommates or renting a room instead of an apartment, getting a second or third job, moving to a new place across the country for better pay and better opportunities, etc.).  You can work on your outlook on life and your relationships, but you have to be willing to put in the work.  Adjusting your mindset is hard (so hard that it often takes professional help).  Reevaluating the way you interact with others is hard.  Objectively look at what role you plan in a lack of good job opportunities and advancement is hard. 

So it's up to you to decide how much work you want to do.  The great news and also the bad news is that so many of these issues are fixable, with a lot of hard work and some patience. Re-read Brute's post again for a perfect example of all of this. 

[afah0447]

The wild is ruthless. Some species don't even work together, let alone the ones trying to eat you.

You are already at the top of the food chain. Just find your mojo and get back in the game!

[M5]

Animals live cruel, nasty lives. They eat only what they can kill - unless they are eaten first.

Ever wonder why you don't see any elderly animals? It's because they've all been eaten.

Nature is exceedingly tough to animals, plants, humans, and even to itself. Humans have fortunately been able to tame a little bit of nature and as such, we have better lives than the animals. It's true that money is required, but that is the cost of taming nature.

My Mini Aussie sure lives a cushy life! Lol but of course, like many other animals, won't get to enjoy it as long as humans do.

[RetiredAt63]

I have to say I too am laughing at the "animals don't have to work".  They do almost nothing but.  Watch robins finding food for their babies.  They are out from dawn to dark. 
 
Money is a way of saving up past work to arrange for future benefits.  Most animals can't do this - some stockpile for winter (squirrels stockpile nuts, bears stockpile fat)  but for most it is a daily grind, and if they don't hustle they don't eat.  Or they don't find a warm spot for the night and waste all their energy shivering.  Or they starve.  Or they get sick and then they get eaten because they are easy prey.

[Metalcat]

I have to say I too am laughing at the "animals don't have to work".  They do almost nothing but.  Watch robins finding food for their babies.  They are out from dawn to dark. 
 
Money is a way of saving up past work to arrange for future benefits.  Most animals can't do this - some stockpile for winter (squirrels stockpile nuts, bears stockpile fat)  but for most it is a daily grind, and if they don't hustle they don't eat.  Or they don't find a warm spot for the night and waste all their energy shivering.  Or they starve.  Or they get sick and then they get eaten because they are easy prey.

Yeah, except for those spoiled "trust fund kids", like those damn spoiled house cats who have good owners, with their clean litter, water fountains, up to date vaccines, and fancy wet food. Fuck them!

[partgypsy]

I have to say I too am laughing at the "animals don't have to work".  They do almost nothing but.  Watch robins finding food for their babies.  They are out from dawn to dark. 
 
Money is a way of saving up past work to arrange for future benefits.  Most animals can't do this - some stockpile for winter (squirrels stockpile nuts, bears stockpile fat)  but for most it is a daily grind, and if they don't hustle they don't eat.  Or they don't find a warm spot for the night and waste all their energy shivering.  Or they starve.  Or they get sick and then they get eaten because they are easy prey.

Yeah, except for those spoiled "trust fund kids", like those damn spoiled house cats who have good owners, with their clean litter, water fountains, up to date vaccines, and fancy wet food. Fuck them!

lol and their smug expressions! they know it.

[Metalcat]

I have to say I too am laughing at the "animals don't have to work".  They do almost nothing but.  Watch robins finding food for their babies.  They are out from dawn to dark. 
 
Money is a way of saving up past work to arrange for future benefits.  Most animals can't do this - some stockpile for winter (squirrels stockpile nuts, bears stockpile fat)  but for most it is a daily grind, and if they don't hustle they don't eat.  Or they don't find a warm spot for the night and waste all their energy shivering.  Or they starve.  Or they get sick and then they get eaten because they are easy prey.

Yeah, except for those spoiled "trust fund kids", like those damn spoiled house cats who have good owners, with their clean litter, water fountains, up to date vaccines, and fancy wet food. Fuck them!

lol and their smug expressions! they know it.

I have a "designer" cat sitting on my lap at this very moment looking smug as fuck.

[six-car-habit]

  A song for you Queywet - you need to follow Brute's example and get out of your "comfortable" living situation w/ mommy+daddy.


"Movin' Out (Anthony's Song)" by Billy Joel.

Anthony works in the grocery store
Savin' his pennies for some day
Mama Leone left a note on the door
She said
"Sonny, move out to the country"

Oh but workin' too hard can give you a heart attack
You oughta know by now
Who needs a house out in Hackensack?
Is that all you get for your money?

And it seems such a waste of time
If that's what it's all about
Mama, if that's movin' up, then I'm movin' out

Sergeant O'Leary is walkin' the beat
At night he becomes a bartender
He works at Mister Cacciatore's down on Sullivan Street
Across from the medical center

And he's tradin' in his Chevy for a Cadillac
You oughta know by now
And if he can't drive
With a broken back
At least he can polish the fenders

And it seems such a waste of time
If that's what it's all about
Mama, if that's movin' up, then I'm movin' out

You should never argue with a crazy mind
You oughta know by now
You can pay Uncle Sam with the overtime
Is that all you get for your money?

And if that's what you have in mind
Yeah, if that's what you're all about
Good luck, moving up, 'cause I'm movin' out

I'm movin' out .   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58TYkqFiWl4

[nancyjnelson]

I should note that I don't count time spent with my wife, or time spent hiking or exercising as downtime. It's part of being a functional human and having a satisfying life and relationship.

This.

[RetiredAt63]

I have to say I too am laughing at the "animals don't have to work".  They do almost nothing but.  Watch robins finding food for their babies.  They are out from dawn to dark. 
 
Money is a way of saving up past work to arrange for future benefits.  Most animals can't do this - some stockpile for winter (squirrels stockpile nuts, bears stockpile fat)  but for most it is a daily grind, and if they don't hustle they don't eat.  Or they don't find a warm spot for the night and waste all their energy shivering.  Or they starve.  Or they get sick and then they get eaten because they are easy prey.

Yeah, except for those spoiled "trust fund kids", like those damn spoiled house cats who have good owners, with their clean litter, water fountains, up to date vaccines, and fancy wet food. Fuck them!

lol and their smug expressions! they know it.

I always thought that if reincarnation were true, I wanted to come back as one of my pets.   ;-)

[arob54600]

That pessimism is gonna kill your career and that's gonna make your life 10x harder.
Depression is no joke. Instead of being a complainly pants on this forum, get out there and take care of your mental health.
Do you really think you are going to hit FIRE with these self-defeating ideas?

[Villanelle]

FYI, QW, the original poster, has pronounced (again) that he is leaving FOREVAH!, and it seems this time he means it.  Doesn't mean the conversation can't continue, but if your advice is directly specifically to him, he's gone so don't bother. 

[eostache]

Nothing stopping you from running thru the woods, nekkid and shoeless, hunting down and eating animals raw, and sleeping in a cave. Go do that.

Also read up on Daniel Suelo who lives in a cave with no money. https://www.becomingminimalist.com/the-man-who-quit-money-an-interview-with-daniel-suelo/
From the article:
"When I first heard the story of Daniel Suelo, I was immediately intrigued. After all, Daniel lives entirely without money and has done so for the past 12 years. In 2000, he put his entire life savings in a phone booth, walked away, and has lived moneyless ever since. Most frequently, he lives in the caves and wilderness of Utah where he eats wild vegetation, scavenges roadkill, pulls food from dumpsters, and is sometimes fed by friends and strangers. Daniel proudly boasts that he does not take food stamps or government handouts."

He quit doing that a few years ago to take care of his parents and uses money to pay for their care.  I respect what he did on myriad levels but what's the point of escaping from the vicegrip of society if it prevents you from doing basic things like taking care of family members (which shows the cold, hard truth of how scalable that style of living is to more segments of society outside of healthy adults with survival skills).

I do think his experiment proves (and really drives home) at least that you don't require a lot of money to live.  So why not have your cake and eat it, too? i.e. Enjoy the benefits of living in a society AND don't spend a lot of money.  Learn, read, become as self-sufficient as you can, grow/hunt/gather as high a proportion of your calories if that's your thing.

Yes, at the moment Daniel Suelo lives in a small town in western Colorado, living with and taking care of his elderly mother. His father passed away a few years ago. He has had to deal with money to take care of his mother but he still tries to live without money for himself. I don't think he drives a car, I've heard him mention riding his bike a lot. I have several mutual friends with him and have friended him on FB (he posts good stuff) but I have not talked to him myself. I see him around and sometime I need to say hello to him.

[stoaX]

FYI, QW, the original poster, has pronounced (again) that he is leaving FOREVAH!, and it seems this time he means it.  Doesn't mean the conversation can't continue, but if your advice is directly specifically to him, he's gone so don't bother.

Yeah, but even if the OP is gone, we got to see Brute's comment that "there's a lot of ear wax out there.  Gross.".  Perhaps I have a warped sense of humor but I did laugh hysterically at that so that made this whole conversation worth it. 

[mastrr]

I hate how everything in life is about money.
The only thing that doesn't cost money is air.
Money is the only thing that matters to humans.
If you stop working and have no money you will eventually starve to death.
Money is everyhthing, from the moment we are born to the grave.

For the animals money doesn't exist.
The animals don't need work.
They only need to find food and mate.
I wish I was an apex predator like a bald eagle or something.
Being human sucks.

As humans we have the ability to access God through prayer and receive the Beatific Vision upon our bodily death.  Animals don't have this luxury as they are only made for this world.

[brute]

FYI, QW, the original poster, has pronounced (again) that he is leaving FOREVAH!, and it seems this time he means it.  Doesn't mean the conversation can't continue, but if your advice is directly specifically to him, he's gone so don't bother.

Yeah, but even if the OP is gone, we got to see Brute's comment that "there's a lot of ear wax out there.  Gross.".  Perhaps I have a warped sense of humor but I did laugh hysterically at that so that made this whole conversation worth it.

I'm glad someone enjoyed it!

Seriously though. If we can figure out a way to use earwax in an industrial setting for a profit, we'd be rich overnight.