Author Topic: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)  (Read 4055 times)

darkskys

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I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« on: April 15, 2021, 11:03:06 AM »
Well mostly. There’s still places I’d love to see in my lifetime. Bear with me though, you will see my point soon.

This may sound weird, but after 3 decades of living I never traveled outside the country. As I graduated from college, I read and saw a lot about these fellow millennials traveling around the world taking cool pictures. Man I got FOMO! Being a first generation college student with no money, it had this appeal of this lifestyle with nothing holding me back seeing all sorts of cool places.

Last year my perspective has changed. I went through some hard times like a lot of people in the pandemic, and my world shrank quite a bit. All sudden I noticed that strong urge to jump in a plane and travel everywhere has gone completely. I still want to see a few place’s internationally, but I’m much more interested in seeing some cool state and national parks nearby. The prospect of seeing dark skies and busting out a telescope has much more of a pull for me, and I can bring my dog on outdoor adventures.

Maybe it’s because I’m happy where I live. The weather sucks most of the year, but there is plenty of nature nearby and a diverse array of people that I have met and the variety of different cuisines is incredible. My family is closer, and it’s great being able to see them and watch my niece and nephew grow up.

It’s just strange. Maybe i don’t know what I’m missing. Perhaps this just contentment. I have a lot of different hobbies I share with friends that I find rich. Relationships seem more interesting to me these days than they did before. Part of it I think is I viewed the lifestyle of travel as a way of fixing or running away from the issues I was facing at the time. I know it’s still an experience that I should engage in, but it sounds like so much work when I can jump in my car with my wife and dog and to camp in a forest nearby and take in nature. Anyways I’m just sharing an experience of mine. I’m not trying to impart my values on anyone. If you love air travel that’s great. I still like it too. Thanks for reading my rambling musings.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 11:11:59 AM by darkskys »

clarkfan1979

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2021, 01:25:40 PM »
It's been the complete opposite for me. I've been getting better at accumulating points/miles. It's kind of turned into a game. I didn't fly anywhere April 2020 to August 2020, due to COVID. However, since September 2020, I have flown to Los Angeles, Salt Lake, Hawaii and Florida twice. Pretty much all with points. I fly out of Denver.

darkskys

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2021, 01:59:55 PM »
I’ve got a bunch of points too.

I’m going to use it of course. Maybe I will get more of an itch someday when my job isn’t so busy.

Rdy2Fire

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2021, 02:38:10 PM »
I couldn't imagine a life without travel. I'm happy where I am but love to see the world and even traveled during covid (within the US). With that said, I have met many people, as I traveled the world that never leave a 10 mile radius in their life so, if you don't want to travel don't travel; more seats available for the rest of us HAHA!!

OtherJen

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2021, 02:48:23 PM »
I'm generally right there with you, OP. I am always happy to pack up and go camping in a state park. I hate dealing with airports. I was brought up very working-class, and there was never money for plane travel. Instead, we spent a week or two in the summer at my grandparents' lakefront cottage up north. I didn't get on a plane until I was 25 and embarking on my honeymoon. I think it is true that you don't miss what you don't know.

Still, we were just starting to seriously plan a summer 2021 trip to Stockholm and Copenhagen when COVID hit last year. We're looking forward to finally going; if not next year, maybe for a milestone wedding anniversary in 2023. I'd also like to visit Hong Kong, Seoul, and various cities in Mexico someday. We spent 2 weeks in Japan several years ago; other than the horrendously long plane rides, that trip was wonderful (although not calm or relaxing).

remizidae

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2021, 04:58:55 PM »
I don't think there's any reason you "should" travel for pleasure. If you have other sources of pleasure, that's great! You can learn about the world without physically visiting it.

Captain Cactus

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2021, 06:02:33 PM »
I sure would like to be able to travel again.  France and other places in Europe especially.

But even 4 hours drive north into New Hampshire’s White Mountains would be a real dream too.  Hanging in there.  Vaccine on Monday. 

Zikoris

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2021, 06:51:14 PM »
I love travel myself, but I always find it weird how there's this societal thing where everyone is supposed to love it and if you don't there's something wrong with you. You just don't really have that with other things, like "You don't like doing needlepoint? What the fuck is wrong with you?"

There are plenty of parts to travel that aren't fun at all, like the time my flight got delayed by eight hours, getting a nasty stomach bug, and feeling 90% dead on my first day back at work from the jet lag (worst was STARTING A NEW JOB that day). Also, accommodations turning out to be misrepresented/lemons, people trying to scam you, and so on. Over many years of extensive travel I've found techniques to mitigate a lot of stuff, but there are always at least one or two things that go fairly wrong, and a lot of people don't have the personality type where they can still have a good time with things going wrong to the extent that they often do.

I would say you should give it a try though to be sure. I was pretty ambivalent about travel until I was almost 25 and decided spur of the moment to go to England, had a great time, and was immediately hooked.

sui generis

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2021, 06:54:24 PM »
I was always sooooo eager to travel.  Had a strong need to get to unusual places.  With COVID, I took it in stride and am grateful for 14 months with no air travel, which I always hated but tolerated because I loved being in Sri Lanka or Svalbard or hiking the Annapurna Circuit. 

We did several road trips during COVID and lots of local backpacking (which, when you live near the Sierras is more than satisfactory!) so I still got to get out a few times.  And that was great.  Now that I'm facing being vaccinated and opening up, I'm not so excited about travel again (yet).  Will I be?  I don't know and can't decide if I hope so or not. 

I'm getting on an airplane in a few weeks to go backpacking in UT....it's a little shorter than the drive there and I'll be almost fully vaxxed.  It's a short plane ride, so I'm willing, but anything beyond 2-3 hours is still seeming more like torture and danger (not of COVID, but of airline fuckery) than pleasure to me.

Interested to see what my future holds in a couple of years.  I never would have guessed where we're at right now!

draco44

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2021, 09:58:46 PM »
I've traveled extensively throughout my life and do think it has broadened my horizons and knowledge of the world. That said, I strongly reject the notion that travel automatically makes a person better or more interesting.

I think it could be very rewarding for you to try traveling abroad at least once to get a taste of what's out there, but no one's forcing you to go. If anyone ever tries to belittle you for not traveling more, or for having the *audacity* to be basically happy with your life, they're just being an ass. Not everybody can or should grow up to an Instagrammer in Thailand, and the world would be a poorer place if everyone tried to go that route.

I also think it's helpful to remember that a cultural expectation of "everybody" (i.e. middle class and up) "deserving" (i.e. wanting) frequent and far-flung travel is an extremely recent development in human history. Billions of humans have lived good and meaningful lives over the course of history without completing a visit-all-the-countries checklist before they died. Yes there is long history of explorers and pilgrims and merchants and Grand Tours and such, but it's perfectly possible to have a fufilling life while staying largely in place. If you are a learner, you can learn plenty from the world of your local community and putting down roots there, and filling in the edges with the power of books and the internet.

However, if it's money rather than personal preference holding you back from traveling, that can be worked around. If funds are tight you might consider travel hacking strategies, doing volunteer workstays, or even teaching English abroad. Or just plain old saving up until you are ready.

Basically, do what you want with your life. When you travel, you are still you. And you have the power to find adventure and meaning wherever you are.

Freedomin5

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2021, 02:17:32 AM »
My parents always valued travel. The first time I got on a plane was when I was two. That being said, I’m with you, OP, in that I’m currently perfectly content to stay put. My idea of the perfect summer is to spend the entire summer at our cottage...not going anywhere. I don’t see anything wrong with enjoying all the things you have at your fingertips.

former player

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2021, 03:28:32 AM »
I'm with OP: I don't think I've been out of my county even for two years now.  I'll go a couple of hundred miles next year for a concert that's been put off because of the pandemic, but no other plans for travel.

The general awfulness of plane travel is usually easily acknowledged, but I want to add: how is it that people don't also say they hate hotels?  Nasty things that meet a need for a bed at night but lack space, time, privacy and cleanliness (even the cleanest don't change bedspread, duvet and pillow between dozens of users).  I'd be happy never to have to stay in one ever again.

BikeFanatic

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2021, 04:33:51 AM »
I don't really like travel either, but I have enjoyed contact with other cultures through traveling, and seeing the big world under the ocean  surface scuba diving in the Caribean. I will go to Europe with my spouse at some point as she wants to go and has never been. I could be content never getting on a plane and never staying at a hotel. I much prefer camping and local travel, more relaxing and still a sense of adventure.

tooqk4u22

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2021, 06:08:17 AM »
I get it.  I really don't like it, but still have a small burning fire inside me that wants to experience other places (probably just programming).

Reasons -

1.  like most others the aggrevation of air travel, rental car, sleeplessness in hotels (airbnbs help with this).  Plus I can't sit still that long, after 23 hours I am really restless.  Been to Hawaii from east coast and could have flown direct but didn't, I was still out of my mind.  Would love to go to Australia or fiji but would be afraid I wouldn't the on the flight back.

2.  My kids don't want to, even when they hear of their friends going places they still prefer not to.

3.  It's a lot of money for bouts of joy doused with aggrevation.

4.  I guess as I have gotten older I have also become more of a homebody and I have grown more fearful of international travel, not just safety, but also fear of standing out.



But I still feel like I should make my kids travel to get out of ther bubble and comfort zone.. I still have a desire to experience food and other cultures different than mine.   My fantasy is slower visits, you know renting a place for a month or two in an area, but with teens and a tween immersed in school and activities that will have to wait. 


norajean

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2021, 06:53:57 AM »
We have traveled and lived all over the world. It absolutely broadens horizons. But much of it is also truly awful, like airports, planes, crowded dirty attractions, getting ripped off all the time on tourist prices, massive language and cultural barriers, restaurant food, jet lag, medical risks, etc.  People say they want to slow travel and live somewhere for a month, cooking at an apt, but what is that about? Trying someone else’s life for a while as a complete outsider? Everywhere you go someone is already living there. It’s not that exciting. We are refocusing on North America car travel and outdoor attractions off season. It is limitless and has some of the best sights and infrastructure anywhere.

boyerbt

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2021, 11:01:10 AM »
To each their own and YMMV but I am looking forward to all forms of travel once everything opens back up again.

I understand the negative sentiments of the travel process but personally do not see these as such strong negatives but rather as a part of the experience. We have had some major calamities when traveling but now I look at them with rose-tinted glasses and can tell the stories more positively. The US does have so much to offer in the ways of travel and experiences but there is a unique feeling to land in a foreign area where everything is different such as the language, food, architecture, etc.

No one is better for traveling. 

Just Joe

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2021, 12:33:27 PM »
OP I get your message. DW and I moved into a rural home a while back and love it there. Sitting on the porch sipping something cool and reading is bliss. It is close enough to our small town for a quick 10 minute run to the grocery. Close enough to the relatives to do a day trip. Close enough to some really great places urban and rural when we want to get away.

I was telling a friend that my ideal weekend is not starting a car. DW agrees. Friend looked a little surprised b/c they like to be on the move - eating out, shopping, etc. I don't think friend stays home much. 

I haven't been on a plane in fifteen years or so. Haven't been out of the country closer to thirty years. That said, DW said she is ready for trips she has dreamed about taking her entire life. Some of that will include Europe. She has several destinations in mind, I have a few destinations in mind for other future trips. At some point I want to show her the places I visited when I lived in Europe for a few years. So, we'll take a few trips. We both agree we don't want to be the old folks in the Venice picture, sound to sleep on their gondola ride. ;)

Are there any good MMM threads about planning strategies for such trips?

Cranky

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2021, 03:11:08 PM »
I don't love to travel. As far as I'm concerned, it's an expensive way to be less comfortable than I would be at home. There are plenty of things to do in a day's range of home, too.

darkskys

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2021, 04:31:51 PM »
My favorite form of travel is going to an Airbnb somewhere cool with fun places to hike. And cooking my own food, most nights anyway.

Slow travel actually sounds really appealing. Especially in winter! I’ve  been on a 7 hour plane before and it was tolerable, but definitely not my favorite thing. And then the time difference. I will still get out there eventually, but somewhere along the way it lost a bit of its luster and I found plenty to do around here. Besides it seems like I’m getting more personal satisfaction out of putting more time into relationships these days.

Also I may have got a little travel bug out of me since I’ve lived in a few different states in my life. One in particular was pretty far away and I explored that region quite a bit. It was still the US though but way different from where I grew up.


Rustyfa

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2021, 04:40:33 PM »
What is the best way to get points for flights?

Zikoris

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2021, 05:59:16 PM »
My favorite form of travel is going to an Airbnb somewhere cool with fun places to hike. And cooking my own food, most nights anyway.

I totally agree, some of my favourite trips have been along those lines. A few months pre-pandemic we travelled around Japan staying in cool places and doing gorgeous hikes with hot springs at the end, and eating at temples, and it was so much fun. Temple food is such a delicious vegan option in Japan, though some of the places are quite pricey.

lutorm

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2021, 11:17:22 PM »
I like travel, but I'm not a big traveller. I live 12 time zones away from the rest of my family so that's most of my travel. Otherwise it's been for work. Staying in Munich for a month for work every year as a postdoc was pretty glorious, especially since it was paid for.

As for touristy travel, not so much. I mean, there are places I think would be cool to see, but if you don't have some time at the destination then the stress of actually traveling makes it not worth it. (I also have a neck injury that means more than 2-3 hours stuck in an airplane seat leaves me with a blasting headache, which doesn't help.)

Zamboni

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2021, 02:52:53 AM »
It's totally normal to not want to travel. Seriously. It's normal. The vast majority of people don't travel much.

Based upon what other people are writing, I must be weird because I kind of like staying in hotels. At least in nicer hotels. I don't even mind air travel hassles and flight delays any more. I think I've just gotten used to it and, now that my kids are grown, it's so much easier to travel as an adult without little kids in tow that I can appreciate how relatively easy it is. I've been stranded multiple times due to weather or other flight cancellations, sometimes for days and days, but now that I have money I can just get a nice hotel and work remotely, if needed. By comparison to some of the mishaps during travel when I was younger and poorer, it all seems very luxurious to me in my current situation.

For the busiest sites, tourism crowds can almost always be worked around with a little inside information from something like a Rick Steves book, a few extra dollars for a VIP/private tour, and/or talking to a concierge (not always worth it to ask them, but it often is worth it if you want a smooth experience.)

My biggest travel stressor these days is ground transportation. Just when I think I have it figured out, I have some really bad experience with a driver or problems with train or subway tickets or filth. I've also finally given up on bus transportation in most places. Probably because I commuted by bus for many years, I'm just over getting on a bus. The convenience of the bus is a myth propagated by people who don't rely on the bus for transportation. My Mom was a city bus driver, so nothing against the bus system, but I still feel this way. The "hop on, hop off" tourism buses can be fun in major cities, and many colleges seem to have campus bus systems that work well. Other than that, though, I'd rather just pay more to get a private ride, except that there are security problems, more so in some countries than others. Ugh.

What is the best way to get points for flights?

@Rustyfa that depends on your lifestyle, but I have found the fastest way is to pick a brand or two and then "travel hack" using travel points credit cards. For example, I just earned a companion pass using my Southwest Airlines card, mostly because of the sign up bonus (second time I've done this on that airline . . . I had to cancel it for a couple of years in between.) So now I have over 100,000 SWA points and my daughter or another companion can fly for free with me. For international travel I've focused on a different airline.

Hotel points can accumulate similarly. People who have a fair amount of business or leisure travel can really pile up hotel points between loyalty programs and the associated credit cards. I resisted that for years for reasons that I now don't understand, but in the past couple of years I've had many points-comped nights at Hilton, Marriott, and Choice brand hotels.

Besides tips on MMM, The Points Guy and Nerd Wallet websites have good tips for travel hacking. I track my points in a spreadsheet along with my other assets bc I'm a total nerd.

exterous

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2021, 06:54:51 AM »
I haven't been on a plane in fifteen years or so. Haven't been out of the country closer to thirty years. That said, DW said she is ready for trips she has dreamed about taking her entire life. Some of that will include Europe. She has several destinations in mind, I have a few destinations in mind for other future trips. At some point I want to show her the places I visited when I lived in Europe for a few years. So, we'll take a few trips. We both agree we don't want to be the old folks in the Venice picture, sound to sleep on their gondola ride. ;)

Are there any good MMM threads about planning strategies for such trips?

If nothing else take a look at this site for a trip to Europe: https://www.seat61.com/

I've used that site for years and numerous trips and found it to be an amazing resource. I'll often just throw a city we're staying in in there to see what interesting options are available as some cities you might not think of are connected by very convenient high speed rail. Also makes knowing how to buy and price ranges incredibly easy across the various train providers in Europe.

I don't know about any threads with them but I'll share what I do for our active trips (we do some relaxing ones that are much less planned out). It didn't start this way but this is what it's grown into over time and in response to our experiences. Usually I start with a rough idea about where we want to go and how long we can go for. So I start learning about an area (Google search "Things to do in..." "Things to do near..." "Day trips from...", Trip Advisor, Seat61, and sometimes books - wife also searches Pintrest which I am not a fan of but..) and start a Google Map file. The wife and I put pins on the map on things we want to do and color code for interest level. Once that is done I'll take a look at what the map looks like and try to fit a travel plan in that hits a lot of the high interest pins in a reasonable amount of time given the number of days we're traveling. To do that I'll look at drive times, train options, public transport etc. I usually don't get it right the first time or create a couple of different options we'll discuss before booking any houses or hotels.

I then outline everything for the trip in an excel spreadsheet with each tab being its own travel day. Each day includes that day's activity information, links to interesting restaurants, grocery store, farmers market options, hours of operation if those are unusual, hotel info for the night and, if we're hiking, basic trail information including distance, duration and elevation change. That is then saved locally to our phones for easy access and maybe printed out. Why so much information? Sometimes we're tired and don't want to search for food options while on the trip so they are right there already ready for us. Or we're running behind and didn't know some place closed early that day. Maybe we're tired or tweaked a knee on a hike and don't want to do another with lots of elevation change. Maybe we forgot the hotel name for this day, who it's under or if it offers free breakfast and don't have internet access. I also create an email folder for the trip and move all relevant reservation and booking emails into it for easy access if need be (After the trip I then move this folder under a "Previous Trips" email folder and move the excel doc to a similar "Previous Trips" folder)

It's more work ahead of time but makes the trip much easier for us while we're on it and we're not wasting time on the trip sitting somewhere trying to figure out what to do. It also makes for useful historical information. What was that amazing hike called? Where was that awesome restaurant? We loved that hotel, what was the name again? Might not be all that hard a year later but what about 3 years or 5 years later with a bunch of other trips under your belt? I've referred to past information quite a few times for our personal nostalgia and sometimes for helping others to plan

What is the best way to get points for flights?

The best way is usually credit card sign up bonuses. Which ones to go after depends on bit on where you live and your travel goals although transferrable points like Chase' Ultimate Rewards or Amex's Membership rewards adds some flexibility to that. If you want domestic travel its tough to beat Southwest due to their relatively easy award availability but they don't have much of an international route network (Largely confined to Caribbean and central America). If you live near cities with robust airline competition (ex: LA, NY, DC) your options open up a lot but many in the US live near airports with limited airline competition making award availability harder to come by. Flexibility in travel dates and destinations helps a lot. Due to atrocious Delta redemption rates and options, American Airlines frequent insistence on using BA routing through Heathrow for Europe award trips (resulting in several hundreds of dollars in fees) and terrible South America plane and flight options I've gotten the most utility out of United miles and have probably redeemed 2x as many of those as Delta and AA combined. I know a lot of people don't like United but once you reach your international gateway city its likely you'll be flying on one of their partners like Lufthansa, Ethiopian Airlines, EVA etc. YMMV on which airline works best for you though.

If you do head down this route I would highly recommend tracking what cards you applied for in what month and year. Credit Card companies are frequently changing the rules on who can apply for what card when based on different kinds of historical information - some of those restrictions go 4 or even 7 years into your credit card application past!
« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 07:03:48 AM by exterous »

dblaace

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2021, 08:37:36 AM »
I always thought I wanted to travel.

I was born in Berlin so for my 50th birthday I took a European vacation with my son. I spent 3 days in London, 3 Days in Paris and 4 days in Berlin. It was hectic! With the airfare to get to Europe I wanted to do as much as possible. I would never have the chance to do it again. I had itineraries for each day to make sure we didn't miss any of the top sites. Out of the three I enjoyed Berlin the most. Probably since I had a connection there seeing where I was born and where we lived. Someone asked me after I got back if I would do it again. I said no.

I spent 5 days in Big Bend NP. It's a dark sky site. I ran in 1/2 marathon trail race the first day and spent the rest hiking as many trails as possible, again hectic. Best time was taking pictures of the milky way at 4:00 in the morning. I had planned on 2 more days at different places on the return trip but was ready to be home again.

Still FOMO creeps back in sometimes. I'd like to see more National Parks and I've always wanted to see a volcano. Some of the fare east destinations seem interesting, but wherever I go there I am.

Maybe I'd do it again but with no strict schedule, but it's hard to get away from. It's like, Ok a day to get there couple of days there and a day to get back.

Maybe I'll start with the my State Parks there are 89. I think I've seen enough museums in my lifetime. I think I could see as much online as I did in person for me and a lot less walking.

Curious on what people do about there houses when they are gone for 2 weeks or more? Always worrying about it.



Imma

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2021, 10:35:47 AM »
I've never been away from home for more than 10 days as a homeowner, but we didn't do anything special. Neighbours have the key in case of emergency, there's not much to steal in our house anyway. We just lock the doors and go.

I've never taken far-way holidays either. I'm in Europe, so I've been to tons of countries, mostly by train, but I've not been to another continent. I enjoy going on trips, but not all the time. I love flying itself, the being in the air part, but I hate the hassle surrounding it. I have health issues so I get tired more easily, and travelling is just intensely tiring to me. It can be worth it but it definitely isn't always worth it.

I have 0 interest in a short "highlights" trip. I know people who fly to NYC from Europe for a 5 day trip. They have a massive jet lag, try to cram all the touristy things in a few short days and then race back home. That must be awful. In general I try to skip the touristy things because even beautiful historical buildings, very often aren't that wonderful that you want to expose yourself to all the touristy awfulnesss. Some are worth it though. The Tower of London is one of them, and another one is Museum Island in Berlin. There are also lots of gorgeous locations in the UK outside of London. I'd recommend taking a train to a market town somewhere, get a room at the local pub and just walk around the area.

FIRE Artist

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2021, 10:58:29 AM »
I travelled way too much for work for the first half of my career, big international moves, flying across the planet for meetings etc, but haven’t done much at all in the last 8 years but for one painting trip to Portugal and one trip to Chicago for an art conference.  I didn’t think that I would want to travel much in my retirement, but this last winter with work from home has made me realize that I need to plan to spend the two worst months of the winter (Jan/Feb) somewhere warmer, therefore I am planning my spending to include two months in Portugal.

sui generis

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2021, 11:02:09 AM »

Curious on what people do about there houses when they are gone for 2 weeks or more? Always worrying about it.

We have pets, so we have to do something for them, which naturally takes care of house concerns.  What we do for them would work without pets as well - free house sitters.  There are people (often retired, but sometimes that work virtually) that just travel mostly full-time and they get accommodations and to explore a new locale, and you get security and caretaking of your home (and pets, if applicable).  It's an exchange.  There are many websites where you can post your home and find sitters with good references and vetted experience.  We've done it a few times and will probably do it again this summer.  I'm under the impression that no matter where you live, there are likely sitters that will want to come to you.  These folks aren't always looking for glamorous or exciting locations either - I see lots of posts in a Facebook group I'm in of people in just rural England or talking about having sat in a random town in Iowa, etc.  One should post their "ad" to the website(s) as far in advance as possible though. I'm going to be preparing a post today for a trip in July and I think that should work, but I've only done it a few times myself, so each time I still learn something new!

Dreamer40

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2021, 11:08:45 AM »
I don’t have any particular desire to travel right now. I’m enjoying all the work I’m doing on my home property and love sleeping in my own bed.

But I think travel is an incredibly valuable thing for people to do at least once. Study abroad is life changing and eye opening. It’s a very valuable experience to do a home stay with a family where you aren’t fluent in the language and they live in ways that seem strange to you. It’s not always fun but it can be humbling and enriching. I’ve grown so much as a person from studying and working outside the US. Tour companies like GAdventures often have at least a one-night home stay for their small groups. Since not everyone obviously got to do that kind of thing on their own as a young adult. In general, travel can really push us out of comfort zones and teach us about things we don’t even know we don’t know.

All that said, I don’t think it’s necessary. Just valuable. I think there would be fewer white supremacists and nativists if they were all exposed differently to the world they are apparently so afraid and disdainful of. Travel builds compassion and empathy.

 I doubt trips like cruises have much value besides being fun for the people who enjoy them. I’ve had a great time at some tropical resorts. But that kind of travel isn’t particularly beneficial to society.

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2021, 06:06:11 PM »
Something like 40% of Americans have a valid passport, so if you're in the U.S., you're not alone in setting aside international travel.

I was definitely a poor homebody, so I never had those big global backpacking adventures. I felt perfectly content staying at home, doing absolutely nothing, and I still feel that way today. I tend to get hurried when traveling, since I am out of my comfort zone, and that leads to mistakes. I think ten days in Alaska was my most complicated vacation. My youngest brother was the opposite. He spent his 20s traveling as often as possible. He latched on to research trips to go to Costa Rica. He worked contract jobs then took months off to travel to Australia and Indonesia. He and his wife went to India and the Maldives one year, then visited Europe the next year during a World Cup. I feel tired thinking about it (ha ha).

Linea_Norway

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2021, 03:40:20 AM »
Nobody in this thread mentions environmental reasons? Aren't any of you concerned about your carbon footprint? The further you travel, the more CO2 you produce. Long distance flying is a very big polluter.

I am very concerned about global warming and therefore I am not at all drawn to travel the world. I don't have the conscience to do so. We travel a lot in our own (pretty nice) country, mostly by car. I feel best when hiking in the mountains on foot or when car camping. We do travel a bit within Europe, though. 1-2 flights per year, pre COVID. One to visit family and one to the mediterranian to get some nice weather in the fall.

But I feel more and more like homesteading, having a garden full of produce and recreate mostly close-ish to home. But I think that requires that you live in a nice enough area. I can understand that city dwellers need to travel out of the city to be in a natural environment where people feel well. But I don't see the need for them to travel to the other side of the world.

I just fully accept that there are lots of places in the world I won't travel to, like the Galapagos, Antartica, Patagonia, Japan, Thailand, etc. Including places on other worlds like the Moon and Mars. Even though many of these places look fantastic.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 04:18:35 AM by Linea_Norway »

Linea_Norway

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2021, 09:22:56 AM »
Nobody in this thread mentions environmental reasons? Aren't any of you concerned about your carbon footprint? The further you travel, the more CO2 you produce. Long distance flying is a very big polluter.

I am very concerned about global warming and therefore I am not at all drawn to travel the world. I don't have the conscience to do so. We travel a lot in our own (pretty nice) country, mostly by car. I feel best when hiking in the mountains on foot or when car camping. We do travel a bit within Europe, though. 1-2 flights per year, pre COVID. One to visit family and one to the mediterranian to get some nice weather in the fall.

But I feel more and more like homesteading, having a garden full of produce and recreate mostly close-ish to home. But I think that requires that you live in a nice enough area. I can understand that city dwellers need to travel out of the city to be in a natural environment where people feel well. But I don't see the need for them to travel to the other side of the world.

I just fully accept that there are lots of places in the world I won't travel to, like the Galapagos, Antartica, Patagonia, Japan, Thailand, etc. Including places on other worlds like the Moon and Mars. Even though many of these places look fantastic.
Yes I care. This is one reason (amongst others including hating to fly, cost and hassle) that I prefer to do one long multi-month trip rather then a bunch of short trips. And to use public transit or walk/bike if I can once somewhere. When I was working I didn't really travel overseas for vacation and choose to wait until FIRE to do that. I also lived all over the US (military) for many years so being able to explore new local areas often helped keep the wanderlust and pollution at bay. Also, since I don't own a car right now and didn't when I was doing my one long overseas trip, I did feel that not driving for 2 years (other then taking trains or buses) off-set my 2 flights (at the start and at the end) 2 years apart.

Good to hear that you care and are reducing your footprint in other ways.

Zikoris

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2021, 10:30:17 AM »
Nobody in this thread mentions environmental reasons? Aren't any of you concerned about your carbon footprint? The further you travel, the more CO2 you produce. Long distance flying is a very big polluter.

I am very concerned about global warming and therefore I am not at all drawn to travel the world. I don't have the conscience to do so. We travel a lot in our own (pretty nice) country, mostly by car. I feel best when hiking in the mountains on foot or when car camping. We do travel a bit within Europe, though. 1-2 flights per year, pre COVID. One to visit family and one to the mediterranian to get some nice weather in the fall.

I hear you, but I think it's more valuable to think of your carbon footprint in terms of your whole lifestyle. Obviously there are limits, like if you fly dozens of times a year there's no way around that. But, like pick one vice, do that moderately, and give up the rest. So don't fly, eat meat, drive a car, produce lots of garbage, have a bunch of kids, AND live in a big house that uses tons of resources to heat and cool. Pick one, get the rest right, do some effective activism to get other people to consume less, and things balance out in the end.

I personally would like to see way more shaming of meat-eaters with regards to climate change, since most people eat burgers a hell of a lot more often than they fly overseas.

GuitarStv

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2021, 10:46:04 AM »
Out of country short term vacation style travel is truly awful.  Months of planning, to have two of your seven days off crammed into an uncomfortable airplane followed by at least two days of jetlag each way  . . . then not enough time to really get a feel for the place you're visiting as you drag your exhausted ass from tourist trap to tourist trap in an effort to make the giant waste of money worthwhile by faking some social media happy photos before returning to work miserably burned out.  Couple it with living accommodations that typically rank far below the simple comforts of your own roof, 50/50 odds of getting stomach flu, and then the pain in the ass of trying to figure out how to ask for things in a foreign language in a strange place.  I think it's only a form of deranged Stockholm syndrome that makes people idealize the whole thing and leads them to try again in another year.

Fuck that noise.

What a waste of your life.

scottish

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2021, 12:59:12 PM »
That vacation you described sounds a lot like an international business trip.    Substitute "meeting" for "tourist trap" and "meeting minutes", "memorandum" or "contract" for "social media" and you've got it.

I spent three years doing trips like that in the 90's before I decided it totally sucked and stopped.   And there was an element of Stockholm syndrome to it, exacerbated by the frequent flyer points for business class tickets, access to the executive lounge and so on.     I am so glad I got off of that particular career path.

Zikoris

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2021, 01:46:39 PM »
Out of country short term vacation style travel is truly awful.  Months of planning, to have two of your seven days off crammed into an uncomfortable airplane followed by at least two days of jetlag each way  . . . then not enough time to really get a feel for the place you're visiting as you drag your exhausted ass from tourist trap to tourist trap in an effort to make the giant waste of money worthwhile by faking some social media happy photos before returning to work miserably burned out.  Couple it with living accommodations that typically rank far below the simple comforts of your own roof, 50/50 odds of getting stomach flu, and then the pain in the ass of trying to figure out how to ask for things in a foreign language in a strange place.  I think it's only a form of deranged Stockholm syndrome that makes people idealize the whole thing and leads them to try again in another year.

Fuck that noise.

What a waste of your life.

I used to do short trips because I worked for shitty companies where that was all the time they'd let me take off, and my options were short trips or not getting to travel at all. While I prefer longer trips now that I work for a better company, I don't regret getting to see a lot of the world that way in my early/mid 20s versus having to wait until I was older. I think the key to having a good time on those types of trips is to just be really specific about what you want to do, and not try to cram in too many things. I definitely don't think it's ideal, but a LOT of people are in situations where their options are short trips or no trips (or waiting until they're very old), and I think if you want to see the world before you're old, sometimes you have to just take what you can get.

My short trip experiences did not look like your example at all. I'm fortunate that I don't tend to get jet lag until I'm back home, so that's usually not a factor for me. As an example, here's what we did on a one week trip to Ireland many years ago. We were based in Dublin, in an apartment nicer than the one we have at home, right smack in the middle of everything. The formal activities we did were:

- A guided group historical walking tour with a really funny history major (a few hours long)
- A one day group tour to Northern Ireland to check out the Giant's Causeway, various villages, and Belfast
- A one day group tour to the Cliffs of Moher, plus other cliffs and quaint villages

The two group tours were very chill and self-paced, you got dropped off and told to come back for pickup at X time, but otherwise were exploring the areas alone, and were given plenty of time. We also did an independent day trip out to Kilkenny, and a day trip out to visit two villages with a hike between then along the gorgeous coastline (the cliffwalk between Bray and Greystones if anyone's interested). The rest of the time we just explored the different areas of the city, visited some historical sites, checked out cool restaurants, and one night went to a Riverdance performance. I don't remember it feeling rushed at all. It was a ton of fun.

Imma

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2021, 03:24:46 PM »
Nobody in this thread mentions environmental reasons? Aren't any of you concerned about your carbon footprint? The further you travel, the more CO2 you produce. Long distance flying is a very big polluter.

I am very concerned about global warming and therefore I am not at all drawn to travel the world. I don't have the conscience to do so. We travel a lot in our own (pretty nice) country, mostly by car. I feel best when hiking in the mountains on foot or when car camping. We do travel a bit within Europe, though. 1-2 flights per year, pre COVID. One to visit family and one to the mediterranian to get some nice weather in the fall.

I hear you, but I think it's more valuable to think of your carbon footprint in terms of your whole lifestyle. Obviously there are limits, like if you fly dozens of times a year there's no way around that. But, like pick one vice, do that moderately, and give up the rest. So don't fly, eat meat, drive a car, produce lots of garbage, have a bunch of kids, AND live in a big house that uses tons of resources to heat and cool. Pick one, get the rest right, do some effective activism to get other people to consume less, and things balance out in the end.

I personally would like to see way more shaming of meat-eaters with regards to climate change, since most people eat burgers a hell of a lot more often than they fly overseas.

It's true that most people eat burgers more often than they fly, but of course the carbon footprint per burger is much lower. A bit of Googling gave me a figure of 2300 kg of CO2 for a return flight from Amsterdam to NYC, and a kilo of hamburger is 30 kg of CO2. So you could eat 76 kg of hamburgers for one return flight to NYC - that's like 600 burgers if they're 125 gr/burger. That's quite a lot. I don't think I've eaten that many burgers in my life. At 11 kg CO2/kg meat, chicken is the "best" option climate-wise.

I'm not denying eating meat is not a good choice with regards to climate change, and having a vegan diet + flying occasionally is better than eating meat and flying, but there's no denying flying is also pretty bad. So is driving, so is heating and cooling your house, so is having kids.

Linea_Norway

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2021, 01:12:40 AM »
Nobody in this thread mentions environmental reasons? Aren't any of you concerned about your carbon footprint? The further you travel, the more CO2 you produce. Long distance flying is a very big polluter.

I am very concerned about global warming and therefore I am not at all drawn to travel the world. I don't have the conscience to do so. We travel a lot in our own (pretty nice) country, mostly by car. I feel best when hiking in the mountains on foot or when car camping. We do travel a bit within Europe, though. 1-2 flights per year, pre COVID. One to visit family and one to the mediterranian to get some nice weather in the fall.

I hear you, but I think it's more valuable to think of your carbon footprint in terms of your whole lifestyle. Obviously there are limits, like if you fly dozens of times a year there's no way around that. But, like pick one vice, do that moderately, and give up the rest. So don't fly, eat meat, drive a car, produce lots of garbage, have a bunch of kids, AND live in a big house that uses tons of resources to heat and cool. Pick one, get the rest right, do some effective activism to get other people to consume less, and things balance out in the end.

I personally would like to see way more shaming of meat-eaters with regards to climate change, since most people eat burgers a hell of a lot more often than they fly overseas.

It's true that most people eat burgers more often than they fly, but of course the carbon footprint per burger is much lower. A bit of Googling gave me a figure of 2300 kg of CO2 for a return flight from Amsterdam to NYC, and a kilo of hamburger is 30 kg of CO2. So you could eat 76 kg of hamburgers for one return flight to NYC - that's like 600 burgers if they're 125 gr/burger. That's quite a lot. I don't think I've eaten that many burgers in my life. At 11 kg CO2/kg meat, chicken is the "best" option climate-wise.

I'm not denying eating meat is not a good choice with regards to climate change, and having a vegan diet + flying occasionally is better than eating meat and flying, but there's no denying flying is also pretty bad. So is driving, so is heating and cooling your house, so is having kids.

exterous

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2021, 04:30:08 PM »
Nobody in this thread mentions environmental reasons? Aren't any of you concerned about your carbon footprint? The further you travel, the more CO2 you produce. Long distance flying is a very big polluter.

I am very concerned about global warming and therefore I am not at all drawn to travel the world. I don't have the conscience to do so. We travel a lot in our own (pretty nice) country, mostly by car. I feel best when hiking in the mountains on foot or when car camping. We do travel a bit within Europe, though. 1-2 flights per year, pre COVID. One to visit family and one to the mediterranian to get some nice weather in the fall.

We did some hopefully thoughtful consideration on that point. No kids for us and follow many of the anti-consumerism, anti-waste trends of MMM. Even with international travel I estimate our carbon footprint well below average for the US. I know that is still high but there are limits to what we're willing to do given the lack of will generally and the small impact our decisions make compared to the 100 most polluting companies

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/10/12/17967738/climate-change-consumer-choices-green-renewable-energy
https://mashable.com/feature/carbon-footprint-pr-campaign-sham/
(Not that we shouldn't be concerned with our own footprint but we need far more attention on corporations to gather fast, meaningful impacts)

Nobody in this thread mentions environmental reasons? Aren't any of you concerned about your carbon footprint? The further you travel, the more CO2 you produce. Long distance flying is a very big polluter.

I am very concerned about global warming and therefore I am not at all drawn to travel the world. I don't have the conscience to do so. We travel a lot in our own (pretty nice) country, mostly by car. I feel best when hiking in the mountains on foot or when car camping. We do travel a bit within Europe, though. 1-2 flights per year, pre COVID. One to visit family and one to the mediterranian to get some nice weather in the fall.

I hear you, but I think it's more valuable to think of your carbon footprint in terms of your whole lifestyle. Obviously there are limits, like if you fly dozens of times a year there's no way around that. But, like pick one vice, do that moderately, and give up the rest. So don't fly, eat meat, drive a car, produce lots of garbage, have a bunch of kids, AND live in a big house that uses tons of resources to heat and cool. Pick one, get the rest right, do some effective activism to get other people to consume less, and things balance out in the end.

I personally would like to see way more shaming of meat-eaters with regards to climate change, since most people eat burgers a hell of a lot more often than they fly overseas.

If we're shaming people the carbon cost around raising children has far more impact than eating meat. (I'm not suggesting no one have children but there is a high cost in the US (and to a lesser extent other countries) that is at least in part decision based: Large ICE vehicles, large single family homes, piles of plastic toys etc. Yes it can be done with less carbon footprint but the US (and others to some extent) isn't very good at that as a whole and that appears to matter more than the plant based diet)

https://www.zmescience.com/ecology/fewer-children-carbon-footprint-042342/amp/
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 04:34:12 PM by exterous »

sui generis

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2021, 05:17:16 PM »
I was just watching some Rick Steves videos this afternoon.  He seems like a great guy and has really taken care of all his people during the pandemic shutdown.  But on topic: it actually reminded me that so much about travel for so many seems to be about shopping.  Very anti-mustachian.  Travel to a lot of cities, especially those with a shorter history or a history of destruction (i.e. they might not have as many points of historical interest or museums, etc.) becomes just a long distance shopping trip for so many people.  And that's part of why my travel interest might be waning.  Outdoorsy travel and travel to cities where I can do lots of food and cultural stuff is still interesting, but I'm disappointed when I see how much time some people spend prioritizing clothes stores and jewelry stores when they travel.

GuitarStv

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2021, 05:41:38 PM »
If we're shaming people the carbon cost around raising children has far more impact than eating meat. (I'm not suggesting no one have children but there is a high cost in the US (and to a lesser extent other countries) that is at least in part decision based: Large ICE vehicles, large single family homes, piles of plastic toys etc. Yes it can be done with less carbon footprint but the US (and others to some extent) isn't very good at that as a whole and that appears to matter more than the plant based diet)

https://www.zmescience.com/ecology/fewer-children-carbon-footprint-042342/amp/

I feel like we can meet halfway on this to keep everyone happy . . . simply eat the  children.  Then we can feel good about protecting the environment AND have a (baby) burger now and then.  I know it's just a modest proposal, but every bit helps.

draco44

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2021, 07:51:31 PM »
If we're shaming people the carbon cost around raising children has far more impact than eating meat. (I'm not suggesting no one have children but there is a high cost in the US (and to a lesser extent other countries) that is at least in part decision based: Large ICE vehicles, large single family homes, piles of plastic toys etc. Yes it can be done with less carbon footprint but the US (and others to some extent) isn't very good at that as a whole and that appears to matter more than the plant based diet)

https://www.zmescience.com/ecology/fewer-children-carbon-footprint-042342/amp/

I feel like we can meet halfway on this to keep everyone happy . . . simply eat the  children.  Then we can feel good about protecting the environment AND have a (baby) burger now and then.  I know it's just a modest proposal, but every bit helps.

A modest proposal indeed. One which I hope will not be liable to the least objection.

draco44

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2021, 08:00:33 PM »
OP, I hope you do get to give slow travel a try sometime. Long-distance trains can be a fun option if you want a jump-start to get to a new destination and see some sights along the way. Better for the environment than planes too. My favorite trains are the ones that go through mountain ranges.

Prairie Moustache

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2021, 08:01:36 PM »
I've been hoping for a while that one of the crazy billionaires out there (maybe the guy that tried to build Titanic II?) would try to create a budget and carbon friendly ocean liner using the carcass of a triple e class or something. No stupid water slides, infinity pools or roller coasters.

Once starlink is up and running full bore you could pile a bunch of WFH eco conscious millenials on there, let them work remotely for 6 days drop shipping cereal on Amazon or whatever digital nomads do, and voila they're in Europe with access to an excellent network of rail to get their travel fix in.

Missy B

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2021, 09:44:08 PM »
I've been hoping for a while that one of the crazy billionaires out there (maybe the guy that tried to build Titanic II?) would try to create a budget and carbon friendly ocean liner using the carcass of a triple e class or something. No stupid water slides, infinity pools or roller coasters.

Once starlink is up and running full bore you could pile a bunch of WFH eco conscious millenials on there, let them work remotely for 6 days drop shipping cereal on Amazon or whatever digital nomads do, and voila they're in Europe with access to an excellent network of rail to get their travel fix in.
This is my fantasy also.

Missy B

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2021, 11:00:12 PM »
Nobody in this thread mentions environmental reasons? Aren't any of you concerned about your carbon footprint? The further you travel, the more CO2 you produce. Long distance flying is a very big polluter.

I am very concerned about global warming and therefore I am not at all drawn to travel the world. I don't have the conscience to do so.

I just fully accept that there are lots of places in the world I won't travel to, like the Galapagos, Antartica, Patagonia, Japan, Thailand, etc. Including places on other worlds like the Moon and Mars. Even though many of these places look fantastic.
My last international flight was in 2001, just before 9/11. 3 or 4 years ago I took a 30 min flight in a 6-seater puddle jumper. I don't fly because of the carbon footprint. I'm not the biggest travel keener, which helps. But I would for sure have flown a lot more if I didn't care about the carbon footprint.
Over the years I've taken a rash of shit online (these boards included) just for naming that its my practise. A lot, maybe most, North Americans who fly regularly are extremely defensive/protective of their vacation travel and don't want to admit that it has an environmental cost. (Perhaps Europeans are just as bad, but I don't have as many conversations with them.)

I don't judge people for flying, and sometimes its absolutely necessary.

But it's interesting to me. All the justifications people have (I don't hardly drive anywhere so it's okay... travel makes me a better person so it's okay... the plane is going anyway so it's okay...all these other people are wasting more carbon than i do so it's ok...I bought  carbon credits through tree planting that will take 60 years to absorb the carbon I emitted in one trip so its okay...)

It's more carbon that wasn't there before.



Linea_Norway

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2021, 03:46:54 AM »
I was just watching some Rick Steves videos this afternoon.  He seems like a great guy and has really taken care of all his people during the pandemic shutdown.  But on topic: it actually reminded me that so much about travel for so many seems to be about shopping.  Very anti-mustachian.  Travel to a lot of cities, especially those with a shorter history or a history of destruction (i.e. they might not have as many points of historical interest or museums, etc.) becomes just a long distance shopping trip for so many people.  And that's part of why my travel interest might be waning.  Outdoorsy travel and travel to cities where I can do lots of food and cultural stuff is still interesting, but I'm disappointed when I see how much time some people spend prioritizing clothes stores and jewelry stores when they travel.

Indeed. Some year ago, a friend invited me to join her on a weekend shopping in New York, from Norway. I declined, because I thought it was rediculous to fly 16 hours or so just to shop.

SuperNintendo Chalmers

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2021, 09:11:29 AM »
I'm generally right there with you, OP. I am always happy to pack up and go camping in a state park. I hate dealing with airports. I was brought up very working-class, and there was never money for plane travel. Instead, we spent a week or two in the summer at my grandparents' lakefront cottage up north. I didn't get on a plane until I was 25 and embarking on my honeymoon. I think it is true that you don't miss what you don't know.


Somewhat similar here.  I'm 47, and the first and only time I've been out of the country was when I was 21, traveling to study abroad.  It was my first time ever on a plane, and I had not even thought beforehand about what a flight might be like.  The plane was mostly full of other college kids traveling to their programs, and I was trying to act cool, until the plane started zooming down the runway and I about lost my shit.  I was terrified!  I came THIS close to screaming, "We're all going to die!!"  LOL.  Still hate flying. 

Personally I've never seen the allure of traveling abroad.  It just seems like an odd concept to transport yourself thousands or tens of thousands of miles away to do stuff and see things, when there is abundance locally.  Plus it seems like it would be very hard to genuinely immerse yourself in the culture -- so many trips are geared to the "highlights" of the locale, while there is destitution just miles away.  But I have immediate family and friends that literally live for travel, so I get it.  Different strokes for different folks. 

On the environmental impact, personally I agree with some of the comments above that you have to look at your carbon footprint holistically.  If someone is not having kids and not eating meat, I don't think it's reasonable or practical to expect them to give up travel if that is their passion.  Does this mean we're all doomed?  Probably.  But I don't think childless vegans who like to travel are the main driver of our inevitable plunge off the cliff. 


Cranky

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2021, 12:07:43 PM »
My daughter spent her junior year in Paris, and she said the most educational thing about it was that she lived with a Very Unhappy Family. So, I felt like that was a valuable perspective to gain, but she probably didn't have to go to France for it. ;-)

darkskys

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Re: I don’t want to travel (mostly air travel to far places)
« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2021, 06:11:18 AM »
My daughter spent her junior year in Paris, and she said the most educational thing about it was that she lived with a Very Unhappy Family. So, I felt like that was a valuable perspective to gain, but she probably didn't have to go to France for it. ;-)

No doubt. What I’m referring to is a frenzied travel to an foreign country. Study abroad type situation sounds much more appealing, as you get to spend time soaking in the culture and what it’s like to live somewhere else.

Environmental concerns are up there on my list as well. We can all do our best to reduce our carbon footprint but the best thing we can do is to support policies and representatives that introduce legislation to reduce emissions and intact climate preserving measures. There’s way too much emphasis and blame on individuals when what we do is peanuts compared to the corporate and government emissions out there.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!