I don't understand cabin ownership

[couponvan]

My extended family had a cabin growing up - I have extremely fond memories of it.

Commute costs to the cabin are offset by reduced energy costs at our larger main home (yes - our larger main home is too big). We're able to go there 3-4 days per week each week in the summer, and sometimes we're there for 2 weeks at a time.

We got our cabin for less than the price of my sisters fancypants car ($55K), and put lots of sweat equity into it.  It's still not finished, but there is no mortgage on it and we are cash flowing all activities. My son will live there this summer - so his first taste of 18 year old independence will occur there.  I hope they have fond memories of it as well.

It doesn't make a whole lot of financial sense.  I agree with that. It's not mustachian.  It's a luxury item. We did do a family 4 day cruise and trip to FL with an extended group which cost $5K for the week - our cabin costs $7,500-$8,000 to maintain per year.

Our cousins will be spending their honeymoon at the cabin this next week.  We have the extended family out for 4th of July each year.   Family time is not the same at a resort or on a cruise. 
Our kids get to swim, fish, see wildlife, and see a bit of the easier life.  My son leaves for college in the fall. His first job has been life guarding at the pool/beach of the lake where the cabin is located.

It's going to be a bittersweet summer - and the cabin is where it all will play out.

[Freedomin5]

I’ve been following along with interest. I think in our case it doesn’t not make financial sense to own a cabin. Our situation is odd though. We work abroad in a major metropolis (read: concrete jungle) 11 months of the year and get summers off. No home in Canada.

We bought a cabin up north for $180K. It’s on a lake, with a beach, hiking trails, use of watercraft, swimming pool, etc. It’s basically going to be our primary residence while we are in Canada. I really like the idea of coming “home” to the same place each year. We also plan to rent it out during the year when we are not in Canada; rents should help offset carrying costs. I don’t think we will make much money. Carrying costs are around $10K. If we just rent it out for 7 weeks we will break even. Renting out 10 weeks per year and we are ahead. I’d be happy just to break even.

If we were to AirBnB a place for the peak season at $1500/week, we would be spending 6K each summer. $180K could be invested and generate ~$9K per year (5% ROI), netting us $3K per year.

So both options are approximately equal, in which case I want the cabin. I’m looking forward to a lazy month swimming, playing on the beach, reading, hiking, relaxing, and spending time with friends.

[couponvan]

I’ve been following along with interest. I think in our case it doesn’t not make financial sense to own a cabin. Our situation is odd though. We work abroad in a major metropolis (read: concrete jungle) 11 months of the year and get summers off. No home in Canada.

We bought a cabin up north for $180K. It’s on a lake, with a beach, hiking trails, use of watercraft, swimming pool, etc. It’s basically going to be our primary residence while we are in Canada. I really like the idea of coming “home” to the same place each year. We also plan to rent it out during the year when we are not in Canada; rents should help offset carrying costs. I don’t think we will make much money. Carrying costs are around $10K. If we just rent it out for 7 weeks we will break even. Renting out 10 weeks per year and we are ahead. I’d be happy just to break even.

If we were to AirBnB a place for the peak season at $1500/week, we would be spending 6K each summer. $180K could be invested and generate ~$9K per year (5% ROI), netting us $3K per year.

So both options are approximately equal, in which case I want the cabin. I’m looking forward to a lazy month swimming, playing on the beach, reading, hiking, relaxing, and spending time with friends.

I see a month of mowing, removing downed tree limbs, washing windows, blowing away leaves, power washing the cabin, cleaning up 11 months worth of dust, repairing things that somehow mysteriously broke in your absence.  If you're going to be gone that much, I suggest hiring a property manager to do all those things - even though that's not the mustachian way.

[Nate R]

Been reading the thread with interest.

There has been some discussion in the past amongst the family about the work and effort that was and was not put into maintaining a place my grandparents had.

My wife and I bought 4 acres in the same area a couple years ago. We plan to build a cabin in the next couple years. But, one of the thoughts is to keep the whole thing as low maintenance as practical! Off-Grid for a couple reasons, one of them is to hopefully REDUCE maintenance headaches.  (No well to winterize, no septic or plumbing pipes freezing, no water heater tank leaking, no refrigerator dying, no $20/mo minimum electrical connection charge.) Not sure if it will ALL stay that way, but we're starting from the idea of keeping it simpler, and add on what we think/feel is worth maintaining. We've camped a lot, and have a trailer on the land now, so we're getting a taste for how it would be.

Tree limbs? Very few, all 60 year old red pine trees.
Grass to cut? Only a minor section along the road edge, once or twice a summer. The rest is pine woods.... No other grass!
Clearing away leaves and pine needles? So far, about 10 minutes of work a year to remove them from the firepit area, and around the outhouse. I anticipate a leaf blower will do the job another 20 minutes/year on the driveway and cabin roof.
Washing windows? HOPING extended overhangs will reduce the need for that. Time will tell.
Cutting wood for the woodstove: I don't' consider this a problem/hassle. That's part of the adventure!
The cabin will be ~ 500 SF, single story, and well insulated. On slab (no rodents in a crawlspace!)

If I had my way from what I can forsee, we'd FIRE and live in this place 3-4 mos/year. Our primary home is a duplex, and the rental income from the other unit keeps it afloat. The cabin land would be <$500 in taxes/year.

We plan to pay cash to build the cabin ourselves, and that helps keep the size, complexity and cost reasonable. Hoping this keeps it more frugal vs the 3000 SF "cabin" on a lake with all the amenities and 3 acres of grass to cut that we paid someone else to build, etc.

Anyway, that's our thought on keeping a 2nd home that doesn't cost a ton. (And keeping the primary home cheap, too!)

[elliha]

I’ve been following along with interest. I think in our case it doesn’t not make financial sense to own a cabin. Our situation is odd though. We work abroad in a major metropolis (read: concrete jungle) 11 months of the year and get summers off. No home in Canada.

We bought a cabin up north for $180K. It’s on a lake, with a beach, hiking trails, use of watercraft, swimming pool, etc. It’s basically going to be our primary residence while we are in Canada. I really like the idea of coming “home” to the same place each year. We also plan to rent it out during the year when we are not in Canada; rents should help offset carrying costs. I don’t think we will make much money. Carrying costs are around $10K. If we just rent it out for 7 weeks we will break even. Renting out 10 weeks per year and we are ahead. I’d be happy just to break even.

If we were to AirBnB a place for the peak season at $1500/week, we would be spending 6K each summer. $180K could be invested and generate ~$9K per year (5% ROI), netting us $3K per year.

So both options are approximately equal, in which case I want the cabin. I’m looking forward to a lazy month swimming, playing on the beach, reading, hiking, relaxing, and spending time with friends.

I see a month of mowing, removing downed tree limbs, washing windows, blowing away leaves, power washing the cabin, cleaning up 11 months worth of dust, repairing things that somehow mysteriously broke in your absence.  If you're going to be gone that much, I suggest hiring a property manager to do all those things - even though that's not the mustachian way.

If you have a cabin in the woods most of these are optional. Cleaning needs to be done and necessary repairs that would otherwise damage the property but most of the other things you can do as you like with. Windows don't have to be cleaned if you can see through them and most of the time you can if you do it every other year. Tree limbs have to be removed if they block something but otherwise it is the woods and tree limbs are part of being in the woods. You may gather some of them and use them as fire wood but you don't need to remove ever single one. Same with leaves, this can of course be removed but it is optional to a degree. If it is enough for you to slip or if the amount could damage the property sure but not a given. Some lawn mowers can also be used for leaves so that might be an option which takes care of that quite easily. Mowing the lawn may be necessary once a week but wood cabins don't always have lawns. Powerwashing your house? I have never even heard of this and had to google it. OK, if you are close to the sea you may get algae and have to get rid of them but again, in the woods this would not be very like to be to do necessary very often. We have certainly never power washed our cabins but we do of course paint them sometimes, I think the last time was 20 or so years ago for my family cabin and we need to do some smaller maintenance for it this summer but we only need to paint one wall and the wood on our porch. My MIL's cabin does need some work and we will repaint it this summer or the next one. It is probably at least 10 years since this last happened.

I like some of the cabin work like gathering the leaves, planting stuff, preparing fire wood, cleaning up cob webs, getting the patio ready to be used for summer time coffee outside etc. You do often have to wash the pots and pans and such and make the beds and so on but our cabins are not that drastically dusty, just a little and you do need to clean if you are at home too. I am not a neat freak so I just do the worst parts the first day and let the rest be cleaned as we go along and with small kids you are cleaning up stuff all the time and then the things next to it gets cleaned too. Our cabin doesn't look they do in the for sale pictures of an estate agent, never has and never will and we kind of like it to be rustic and not actually invite you to work from dusk to dawn every day you are there.

[wenchsenior]

Recreational cabins aren't supposed to be a great investment or make economic sense.   

You hit the nail on the head right there!  Owning 2 houses is uber luxurious and for the richest of the rich!

We own two houses (neither luxurious, nor cabins), and are by no means the richest of the rich (net worth less than a million).  It all depends on the real estate market.

On topic of cabins, I don't think owning cabins is a Scandinavian thing (both sides of my families owned them, and neither are Scandinavian even remotely).  I think it is mostly a question of location.  In the upper Midwest, back in the 50s and 60s when these cabins were built and bought, they were dirt cheap (they had electricity and running water, but were not winterized) and all of them were on lakes.  The point of having them was to own lakefront property.  One side of the family was (as calculated back then) comfortably upper middle class and owned two cabins about a half-hour drive from their house in town.  They spent most of the summer in those two cabins.  They also regularly invited business guests to parties and weekends there to woo them, and had big parties frequently, inviting all their local friends.  They didn't travel all that much for recreation.

The other branch of the family was working class, and still didn't seem to have too much trouble paying for the cabin until they retired, at which point one of their daughters bought it from them, winterized it, and lived in it.  In the case of this family, they lived in a little house in a city and the cabin was in the northern, lake heavy part of the state 4 hours away, so they would drive up every few weeks in the summer for 3 day weekends.  They didn't really have the money to take big vacations, so the cabin was their vacation spot.

Same with several of my friends' families growing up. We always had a selection of cabins at our disposal.  None were fancy, but all were on different lakes in the area.

I think it was b/c back before all the lakefront property was bought up, they were much cheaper and they were relatively common.  That isn't the case now; where I grew up, those cabins go for a couple hundred grand sometimes.

Again, these cabins were in the families for decades and decades, so over time the cost of ownership (while not insignificant) wasn't quite as big as you might think.

[turketron]

Yeah, a rustic cabin doesn't require a ton of upkeep. I think some people here are conflating a cabin with a Lake House or Summer Home.

My family gives our cabin a thorough cleaning at the start of each summer (work split among like 10 people), and some minor upkeep (repairing screens, clearing out mouse nests from the winter) each year. It's in the woods so there's no yard to mow, and branches/brush doesn't really need to be cleared unless you want to use some for firewood. Never had a need to powerwash anything. No heat or AC to maintain, just electricity and running water on a well, although we do have to get the septic tank pumped every few years.

[charis]

This is an interesting thread for us.  We will be inheriting 1/4 ownership of a remote lakefront cabin that is a full day's travel in the car and not located in a vacation destination, apart from being on a lake.  Not possible to use for us to visit more than a couple weeks during the summer.  Taxes are 4K-5K per year.  2 of the other 3 heirs use for for long weekend every other year, one of whom will not be able to pay their 1/4 share of the taxes/maintenance if we all kept it, and the 3rd never visits. 

If we wanted to keep this place, we'd probably have to buy the others out and pay 4K/year in taxes.  That's sounds crazy, right?  It would be very difficult to rent because a) it's far too remote to attract most renters and b) we live too far away to manage it personally.  Even split 4 ways is a little much.

[mm1970]

I’ve been following along with interest. I think in our case it doesn’t not make financial sense to own a cabin. Our situation is odd though. We work abroad in a major metropolis (read: concrete jungle) 11 months of the year and get summers off. No home in Canada.

We bought a cabin up north for $180K. It’s on a lake, with a beach, hiking trails, use of watercraft, swimming pool, etc. It’s basically going to be our primary residence while we are in Canada. I really like the idea of coming “home” to the same place each year. We also plan to rent it out during the year when we are not in Canada; rents should help offset carrying costs. I don’t think we will make much money. Carrying costs are around $10K. If we just rent it out for 7 weeks we will break even. Renting out 10 weeks per year and we are ahead. I’d be happy just to break even.

If we were to AirBnB a place for the peak season at $1500/week, we would be spending 6K each summer. $180K could be invested and generate ~$9K per year (5% ROI), netting us $3K per year.

So both options are approximately equal, in which case I want the cabin. I’m looking forward to a lazy month swimming, playing on the beach, reading, hiking, relaxing, and spending time with friends.

I see a month of mowing, removing downed tree limbs, washing windows, blowing away leaves, power washing the cabin, cleaning up 11 months worth of dust, repairing things that somehow mysteriously broke in your absence.  If you're going to be gone that much, I suggest hiring a property manager to do all those things - even though that's not the mustachian way.

Hmm...that doesn't seem to be the experience of my spouse's family and their cabin.  There's usually a day or two at the beginning of the "season" to get everything going, and a day or two at the end to close it all up.  But...that's it?

Now, long term...over the space of decades they've fixed things and done upgrades and such.  So there may be a month during a single summer of a lot of work...but only a month every 10 years or so.

[couponvan]

Yeah, a rustic cabin doesn't require a ton of upkeep. I think some people here are conflating a cabin with a Lake House or Summer Home.

My family gives our cabin a thorough cleaning at the start of each summer (work split among like 10 people), and some minor upkeep (repairing screens, clearing out mouse nests from the winter) each year. It's in the woods so there's no yard to mow, and branches/brush doesn't really need to be cleared unless you want to use some for firewood. Never had a need to powerwash anything. No heat or AC to maintain, just electricity and running water on a well, although we do have to get the septic tank pumped every few years.

I’ve been following along with interest. I think in our case it doesn’t not make financial sense to own a cabin. Our situation is odd though. We work abroad in a major metropolis (read: concrete jungle) 11 months of the year and get summers off. No home in Canada.

We bought a cabin up north for $180K. It’s on a lake, with a beach, hiking trails, use of watercraft, swimming pool, etc. It’s basically going to be our primary residence while we are in Canada. I really like the idea of coming “home” to the same place each year. We also plan to rent it out during the year when we are not in Canada; rents should help offset carrying costs. I don’t think we will make much money. Carrying costs are around $10K. If we just rent it out for 7 weeks we will break even. Renting out 10 weeks per year and we are ahead. I’d be happy just to break even.

If we were to AirBnB a place for the peak season at $1500/week, we would be spending 6K each summer. $180K could be invested and generate ~$9K per year (5% ROI), netting us $3K per year.

So both options are approximately equal, in which case I want the cabin. I’m looking forward to a lazy month swimming, playing on the beach, reading, hiking, relaxing, and spending time with friends.

I see a month of mowing, removing downed tree limbs, washing windows, blowing away leaves, power washing the cabin, cleaning up 11 months worth of dust, repairing things that somehow mysteriously broke in your absence.  If you're going to be gone that much, I suggest hiring a property manager to do all those things - even though that's not the mustachian way.

Hmm...that doesn't seem to be the experience of my spouse's family and their cabin.  There's usually a day or two at the beginning of the "season" to get everything going, and a day or two at the end to close it all up.  But...that's it?

Now, long term...over the space of decades they've fixed things and done upgrades and such.  So there may be a month during a single summer of a lot of work...but only a month every 10 years or so.

The poster here doesn't indicate he's got 10 people willing to pitch in for a day split among 10 people (that's 10 days for 1 person).  Visiting other people's cabins/ lake houses makes them seem effortless.  And - yes, I like things to stay clean so mine's probably less rustic than others. I don't remember my family's cabin being a lot of work.  However when I talk to the aunt that owned it, she remembers it being a lot of work. 

Also, we bought a rough house, so it hadn't been maintained in 10-15 years and needed A LOT of TLC.  We didn't have 10 people helping to do it.  Of course now that it's almost finished we've got lots of family that are ready to use it over the summers. ;-) Anyone remember the book, "Who will help me eat the bread?" That's sometimes what I think.  Going forward, maintenance should be less onerous. It's wet and algae grows on the north side of the house if you don't keep on it.  There's a bunch of decking that needs to be restained periodically. 

I put the annual tasks at about 80 hours (split 10 ways, that's only a day in the Spring and a 1/2 day in the Fall). For one person, it's a couple hours of work each weekend 

Ours is a lake house in a private community, so it's got HOA requirements...here's my list:

Power wash driveway and/or seal driveway (depends on the year) - 8 hours
Prune trees - 8 hours
Edge yard - 4 hours
Wash windows - 4 hours (I'm the child of a window washer/janitor, so I need clean windows)
Wash house - 4 hours (again - family pride goes here)
Remove leaves - 16 hours (huge maple trees - 1 1/2 acres full - it's the main Fall job)
Pest control - 4 hours per year
Weed control - 4 hours per year
Stain deck - every 3rd year - 8 hours
Power wash/winterize boat - 4 hours
Weeding - 4 hours over the course of the year
Planting flowers - 3 hours (yeah, this one is totally optional, but when those guests arrive it's so pretty!)
Mowing - every other week from May-October - 6 months 1 hour per time - 12 hours
Repair "somethings" 8 hours

I'm sure I've got others.  A rustic wood cabin would be less maintenance for sure.

[afox]

I had to look it up, about 3.6% of americans own a second home. 

That does'nt mean that the richest 3.6% of americans own second homes.

[Freedomin5]

I’ve been following along with interest. I think in our case it doesn’t not make financial sense to own a cabin. Our situation is odd though. We work abroad in a major metropolis (read: concrete jungle) 11 months of the year and get summers off. No home in Canada.

We bought a cabin up north for $180K. It’s on a lake, with a beach, hiking trails, use of watercraft, swimming pool, etc. It’s basically going to be our primary residence while we are in Canada. I really like the idea of coming “home” to the same place each year. We also plan to rent it out during the year when we are not in Canada; rents should help offset carrying costs. I don’t think we will make much money. Carrying costs are around $10K. If we just rent it out for 7 weeks we will break even. Renting out 10 weeks per year and we are ahead. I’d be happy just to break even.

If we were to AirBnB a place for the peak season at $1500/week, we would be spending 6K each summer. $180K could be invested and generate ~$9K per year (5% ROI), netting us $3K per year.

So both options are approximately equal, in which case I want the cabin. I’m looking forward to a lazy month swimming, playing on the beach, reading, hiking, relaxing, and spending time with friends.

I see a month of mowing, removing downed tree limbs, washing windows, blowing away leaves, power washing the cabin, cleaning up 11 months worth of dust, repairing things that somehow mysteriously broke in your absence.  If you're going to be gone that much, I suggest hiring a property manager to do all those things - even though that's not the mustachian way.

We have a property management company that does all that for us (The $10K carrying costs include that service). And the cottage is in the middle of the forest. No mowing required. We have 5 family members using the cottage regularly, so we all pitch in to clean things up at the start of the summer season. 11 months worth of dust is not hard to clean up in around 800 square feet of space, and it's actually only around 6-7 months of dust since other family members also use the space when we're not there.

[Hula Hoop]

Here in Italy. owning a cabin (or apartment) on the beach or in the mountains is common amongst middle class people and above.  But even working class people often have a family property in some mostly abandoned village somewhere where they can go during the summer to escape the heat or just to get away.  For example, the cleaning lady at my office told me that she was going to be away for a week in October helping he brother to pick olives back in the village.

[gaja]

Came across this lovely tune, by the same guys that came up with the hit "What does the fox say". It perfectly describes Scandinavian cabin life: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua1FAlHt_Ys

[elliha]

The 49 cards, owning it with a million other people and the mismatched cutlery is so correct I laughed like a mad person and that it takes about a day or so to heat it up even in summer so if you get there at night it will be like sleeping inside a refrigerator for the first night and you will make several log fires and then it is suddenly so maddeningly hot that you want to air the cabin out but you can't because the mosquitoes will eat you alive so you spend next night sweating like a pig and hopefully by night 3 which might be your last night you are reasonably comfortable.

[Erica]

There are U.S forest service cabins which are cheaper to buy but you only have a permit. You can research it. My last research told me by law, you need to be gone 2wks out of the year and they will affirm you already have a primary residence.

We are looking to live half a year in one of these cabins and the other half, in a regular cheap home about 30 min away. We don't want to live in a cheap crappy home all yr but desire to live in the forest, less expensively. Yet not too far from work. We are waiting for a cabin which the back faces the forest. My husband will build onto it (a no no) some room which will allow him to put his tools and work equipment there since they often, do not come with garages. You must pay property taxes though you do not own the land, only the structure. Also pay insurance and pay a permit fee to the forest service. A law was passed not many years ago called the cabin act, or something to that affect, which limits the amount the forest service can charge you. Good luck :)

[Linea_Norway]

There are U.S forest service cabins which are cheaper to buy but you only have a permit. You can research it. My last research told me by law, you need to be gone 2wks out of the year and they will affirm you already have a primary residence.

We are looking to live half a year in one of these cabins and the other half, in a regular cheap home about 30 min away. We don't want to live in a cheap crappy home all yr but desire to live in the forest, less expensively. Yet not too far from work. We are waiting for a cabin which the back faces the forest. My husband will build onto it (a no no) some room which will allow him to put his tools and work equipment there since they often, do not come with garages. You must pay property taxes though you do not own the land, only the structure. Also pay insurance and pay a permit fee to the forest service. A law was passed not many years ago called the cabin act, or something to that affect, which limits the amount the forest service can charge you. Good luck :)

Could you buy a sea container and use that as a hobby shed? Just put it behind the place where you live and have it moved to the next house you live in?

[partgypsy]

I have fond memories of staying in cabins in the summer. My mother's aunt had cabins right next to lake Superior, that when we were a kid we would stay at. And we would drive to a lake (long lake) that it felt like we had practically to ourselves with a sandy bottom. My ex's family has a cabin in WV, so we would stay a week in the summer for our main vacation. I will definitely miss those trips, but at least my kids will still get to experience it.

My great aunt recently passed away but family members still own the cabins. I highly recommend if you are in the area.

I still remember how excited we were driving up from Chicago, with the trees making the air feel so clean and fresh. good fishing if you are into that.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g30341-d12674001-Reviews-Mission_Springs_Resort-Ashland_Wisconsin.html

[Erica]

There are U.S forest service cabins which are cheaper to buy but you only have a permit. You can research it. My last research told me by law, you need to be gone 2wks out of the year and they will affirm you already have a primary residence.

We are looking to live half a year in one of these cabins and the other half, in a regular cheap home about 30 min away. We don't want to live in a cheap crappy home all yr but desire to live in the forest, less expensively. Yet not too far from work. We are waiting for a cabin which the back faces the forest. My husband will build onto it (a no no) some room which will allow him to put his tools and work equipment there since they often, do not come with garages. You must pay property taxes though you do not own the land, only the structure. Also pay insurance and pay a permit fee to the forest service. A law was passed not many years ago called the cabin act, or something to that affect, which limits the amount the forest service can charge you. Good luck :)

Could you buy a sea container and use that as a hobby shed? Just put it behind the place where you live and have it moved to the next house you live in?

Good idea :) but  I am certain they would not allow that. My husband is pretty handy so he can likely make some type of portable building. He's not a Contractor but in the business and does well with these things.