Author Topic: I am a half breed...  (Read 11548 times)

James81

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I am a half breed...
« on: July 24, 2012, 08:37:51 AM »
Great blog and website. Loving the articles so far.

As for me, I am a half breed mustachian. I believe in concepts of only using annd seeking what you need, living frugally in most aspects, and being an all out adass with finances. I also love me some Dave Ramsey.

But I am also a huge fan of MJ Demarcos stuff...The Millionaire Fastlane completely changed my view on finances and retirement. Such an awesome book and I highly recommend it.

So, you might say I'm a half breed of two different philosophies...one that suggests living frugally and reducing expenses, ut another that also suggests creating your own business and increasing income.

Looking forward to more of this site.

James

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Re: I am a half breed...
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2012, 09:14:47 AM »
Welcome!

I think you will find there is a lot of independent thought around here, we certainly are a gathering of quite varied opinions on many issues.

I don't think you will find much argument against creating your own business and increasing income as long as the purpose isn't to simply produce funding for mindless consumerism...  :D

Looking forward to your input.

darkelenchus

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Re: I am a half breed...
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2012, 05:31:52 PM »
The Mustachian approach is the "middle lane" that MJ Demarco never got around to writing about. :-)

arebelspy

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Re: I am a half breed...
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2012, 07:17:11 PM »
I've never heard of MJ DeMarco.

Some googling gives me a little info, but honestly, guy sounds like a slick salesman.

Anything purporting to make you Get Rich Quick immediately sets off alarm bells in my head, and naming a book "The Millionaire Fastlane: Crack the Code to Wealth and Live Rich for a Lifetime" doesn't help.

Any Mustachians read this guy and have comments?

That aside, making money isn't incompatible with Mustachianism at all.  Mindless consumerism is.  Make your money (and make it as fast as you legally and ethically can), but realize that once you're FI, you're trading your time for more unneeded money.  At what point do you have enough?
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
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James81

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Re: I am a half breed...
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2012, 08:38:43 PM »
Some googling gives me a little info, but honestly, guy sounds like a slick salesman.

Anything purporting to make you Get Rich Quick immediately sets off alarm bells in my head, and naming a book "The Millionaire Fastlane: Crack the Code to Wealth and Live Rich for a Lifetime" doesn't help.


Just to clarify...it's not a get rich quick book. The Fastlane (as he calls it) is about leveraging things that you have control over to build wealth rather than buying into the idea of going to college, getting a job, and working 40 years to retirement.

In a way, his ideas are very similar to what I've read here...he just advocates a different engine for wealth than here. His idea is more about frontloading a lot of work, time, effort into building a system (i.e. a business or whatever) that creates wealth faster than the average idea of trading time for money. What I found really insightful were his commandments for fastlane wealth (need, entry, control, scale, and time). He explains each in great detail.

Trust me, I'm a huge skeptic myself. When I first heard of this book, I took one look at the title and rolled my eyes. But then I started reading reviews and it seemed like every review I read was extremely positive. I've now read the book twice and I've learned something new both times I've read it.

As a side note, I'm not affiliated with him at all, so I don't get a toaster or anything for recommending it. :p

darkelenchus

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Re: I am a half breed...
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2012, 10:57:31 AM »
Any Mustachians read this guy and have comments?

I read the book last summer, a few months after coming across MMM.

James81 is right. It's not really a get rich quick book so much as it is a primer on rethinking how to make money so that you can reach financial independence (i.e. in his words, become a "fameless millionare") earlier rather than later. He present's a Pascal's Wager-like argument which maintains that starting a low-overhead, scale-able business that addresses a genuine need is a better means of attaining FI than the "get rich slowly" approach of lifelong savings and frugality. There's obviously risk involved in both approaches. If you take the entrepreneur approach, you might fail, but if you succeed, you'll have financial freedom even while you're young. If you take the get rich slowly approach, however, you might succeed, but it'll take way longer, and your financial freedom will be limited to your twilight years. If you fail, you'll be dead, and therefore won't get to enjoy your wealth. Better, then, to roll the dice on entrepreneurship than spend your best years rotting in a cubical and spending your "free time" couponing.

His outlook emulates many of the values of Mustachianism: a sensitivity to exchanging time for money, a disdain for consumerist treatment of money merely as "something that's meant to be spent" rather than as a vehicle for creating wealth, and a healthy streak of self-sufficiency & DIY, among other things.

Probably the biggest difference is that he appears to see no value in leveraging cost-cutting measures to increase savings rate. His concern, and the concern that he thinks his audience has, apparently, is with figuring out how much one will have to make in order to maintain a lavish lifestyle without having to work. Many of his ideas don't presuppose this, however, and he acknowledges that.

If I had to place it on a spectrum of FI ideas, it would occupy one extreme pole, with the Early Retirement Extreme book occupying the opposite position. Fastlane Millionaire promotes seeking FI by ramping up one's income, with minimal attention to cost-saving measures; on the other hand, ERE promotes extreme frugality as the primary engine to power one to FI, without much consideration of income-increasing.

For the Mustachian, probably the weakest point of the book will be what it's missing, viz. a sustained consideration of frugality as a shortcut to FI. The Mustachian approach has nearly the same window of time as Fastlane Millionaire-like entrepreneurship would have (and very well may include some of its own entrepreneurship), but with much less risk. I suspect that Demarco would appreciate this more than the "slow lane" of "get rich slowly," but he'd ultimately be down on it, since the Mustachian/ERE/YMOYL approach won't really allow for mansions and Lamborghinis in one's FI future.

It's definitely a worthwhile read, if only for the different emphasis that Demarco places on things. It'll be most helpful for Mustachians who have already made many of the significant cost cutting measures and are looking for ideas/motivation to boost their savings through an increase in income, espeically via some form of entrepreneurship.

Also, the writing is pretty good, overall. He often falls in love with adjectives at times, which makes for quite a bit of hyperbole, but it also helps keep the reader engaged.

arebelspy

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Re: I am a half breed...
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2012, 11:31:53 AM »
Thanks dark and James81.

Sounds a little too much like what I dislike about Ramit Sethi to me.

I'll check it out though.  I read his little story posted online, it was fine.  Surprised he downplays frugality so much, considering he was living on ramen and such.  Of course that wasn't his path to wealth, so I guess that's why he discounts it.
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

darkelenchus

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Re: I am a half breed...
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2012, 12:38:32 PM »
Thanks dark and James81.

Sounds a little too much like what I dislike about Ramit Sethi to me.

I'll check it out though.  I read his little story posted online, it was fine.  Surprised he downplays frugality so much, considering he was living on ramen and such.  Of course that wasn't his path to wealth, so I guess that's why he discounts it.

No problem! I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

arebelspy

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Re: I am a half breed...
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2013, 05:13:19 PM »
Quote
Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

Shh, forum software!  No need to remind me this had dragged out for 6 months!

Okay, I finished the book.

I have a lot of respect for the author, and I'd say I agree with 90-95% of what he said (which is huge, for me).

If I wanted to become a multimillionaire, I'd probably reread it at least twice more.

I think it's largely compatible with Mustachianism as long as you don't buy into the lifestyle inflation and rampant consumerism that often comes with that type of money.

Unlike Ramit of "I will teach you to be rich" and many other get rich quick shenanigan "gurus," MJ actually advocates hard work, and his Fastlane is essentially promoting a business that is scalable and impactful.  His "Fastlane" will still take years - it's not an overnight thing - and he specifically emphasizes the process over the event.

I do think it's largely unnecessary for a Mustachian.  Once you have "enough," do you need that much more?  And I think that one would actually be happier learning to live on 40k/year than having gobs of money and spending 200k/year. 

My own FI plan is, by my current calculations, at less than four years to fruition.  Starting a "Fastlane" type business would just add needless risk.  I think you summed it up pretty well here:
For the Mustachian, probably the weakest point of the book will be what it's missing, viz. a sustained consideration of frugality as a shortcut to FI. The Mustachian approach has nearly the same window of time as Fastlane Millionaire-like entrepreneurship would have (and very well may include some of its own entrepreneurship), but with much less risk.

It's also not a book you can just go partway on.  It's all about starting a business that meets his different criteria.  That's great, but unless you're looking to become a business owner (different than "be your own boss" - which is often just a job, not a business), it doesn't necessarily have a lot for you.

So I think it's not as useful for most Mustachians.

But, like I said, if I wanted to become a multimillionaire in the next 10 years, I'd be reading it again.  And again.

I fully agree with almost everything he wrote.  I just don't have much desire for that myself, since my desires are simpler.

Anyone wanting to hit multimillionaire status in a decade and is willing to work very hard to do so, I'd highly, highly recommend this book.
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

Jamesqf

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Re: I am a half breed...
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2013, 07:29:28 PM »
There's another side of this, which is why in hell would I want to start my own business?  I'm real good at writing code, but I'm anywhere from mediocre to abysmal at the management/people skills needed to organize & run a business - and worse, I hate doing that sort of thing.

arebelspy

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Re: I am a half breed...
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2013, 08:00:25 PM »
There's another side of this, which is why in hell would I want to start my own business?  I'm real good at writing code, but I'm anywhere from mediocre to abysmal at the management/people skills needed to organize & run a business - and worse, I hate doing that sort of thing.

That's a fair point, it's not for everyone.  But for someone wanting to be rich, it is the way to go.  You aren't going to make 50MM writing code, occasional luck (ala lottery winner type) aside.  That's what the book is targeted towards.  Someone wanting to become rich, not someone happy with their job.
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

Mike

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Re: I am a half breed...
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2013, 02:06:06 AM »
Having a few million extra lying around wouldn't likely change anything for your typical Mustachian in terms of lifestyle, but it could certainly change things a great deal on the charitable giving side of life. 

arebelspy

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Re: I am a half breed...
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2013, 07:10:12 AM »
Having a few million extra lying around wouldn't likely change anything for your typical Mustachian in terms of lifestyle, but it could certainly change things a great deal on the charitable giving side of life.

Of course.  If you want to become a multimillionaire for any reason, including charitable giving, this would be the way to go, IMO.  That doesn't mean it's right for most Mustachians, or most people, IMO, unless you're a hardcore utilitarian, I suppose, and think that will maximize utility.

I'm not convinced it's the highest and best use for most.
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

chucklesmcgee

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Re: I am a half breed...
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2013, 06:19:42 PM »
Having a few million extra lying around wouldn't likely change anything for your typical Mustachian in terms of lifestyle, but it could certainly change things a great deal on the charitable giving side of life.

I think it would. I guess it comes down to how you define Mustachianism. I've always considered it to be a philosophy about maximizing the personal utility of your money, re-evaluating your spending as it relates to what really gives you satisfaction and ensuring dollars, freedom and life satisfaction in the future. For most, that comes down to eliminating expenses that don't benefit you all that much for the buck, reducing the costs of the things you do need and quickly accumulating a large enough income-generating 'stache to comfortably provide for your future expenses.

But if you have a few extra million around, I can't imagine you'd just immediately donate the excess. Personally, I think I'd either inflate my lifestyle slightly, but still well within expected interest, or launch some exciting project only possible with that kind of cash.

arebelspy

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Re: I am a half breed...
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2013, 06:21:09 PM »
So is that what you are working towards then, chuckles?
I am a former teacher who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and am now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about me, this Business Insider profile tells the story pretty well.
I (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out the Now page to see what I'm up to currently.

chucklesmcgee

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Re: I am a half breed...
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2013, 07:02:07 PM »
So is that what you are working towards then, chuckles?

I think so. My business is fairly likely to clear 7 figures pre-tax this year. I should have enough stashed away by the end of the year to maintain my present lifestyle indefinitely were my business to collapse. Next step would be including future expenses such as anticipated spousal education debt, children, their education or a house, but basically that's where I am. My business is run Four Hour Work Week style, so it's not really that much of a hassle at all to maintain.

It's not like I'm really lusting after any particular item at the moment, but I figure there could be some fun to be had. I might attempt Everest in a few years if all is going well financially. If I'm rolling in dough, I might see about starting a project to domesticate the red panda, saving it from extinction and creating some adorable pets. I might make some large political donations and get involved that way. Also some charitable ones. I'm kind of a fitness and nutrition dork and might get some extremely extensive blood panels done. Also might get a full gene sequencing done (already genotyped). There's no doubt a diminishing marginal utility from ever larger stashes, but there's still a bit.