The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: Archipelago on May 14, 2019, 09:02:54 PM
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I've kept pretty much every service record since I've owned my vehicle. Thought it might be interesting little data set to share. Car was purchased used for cash in May 2014 for $6,650. After sales tax and registration fees, came out to $7,175. Maintenance is classified as anything that is replaced per normal wear and tear. Service was any mechanical or any "unusual" repair that was made.
The overall cost of ownership, including the initial purchase and came out to around $446 per month.
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This is great - I love seeing these kind of detailed breakdown of costs!
Related - I myself use fuelly.com to keep track of my fuel consumption at a very detailed level. I have recorded each and every fill-up since I bought my car eight years ago. And if you feel competitive, you can compare your numbers against those of similar cars :-)
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This is great - I love seeing these kind of detailed breakdown of costs!
Related - I myself use fuelly.com to keep track of my fuel consumption at a very detailed level. I have recorded each and every fill-up since I bought my car eight years ago. And if you feel competitive, you can compare your numbers against those of similar cars :-)
Sweet, I'll check it out. The next thing I want to do is compare the fuel consumption against a newer car (probably around 34 MPG combined).
What kind of car do you own?
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I have a Prius v 3 - bought new in 2011. I have to say I'm very happy with the car. We downsized to this from a minivan. This car is a wagon so its very useful for moving stuff. For example, I have to help my daughter move out if her apartment and this car is just amazing in how much it can hold. I plan to keep this car as long as I possibly can.
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Wow, that is quite cheap. Our Subaru BRZ (purchased new) cost us $23,250 over five years (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/pursuing-rear-wheel-drive/msg1839668/#msg1839668).
Our Porsche Cayman S (purchased used) cost us $12,825 in just the first year of ownership (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/pursuing-rear-wheel-drive/msg2218753/#msg2218753)!
Edit: misread the numbers in the first post.
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Wow, that is quite cheap. Our Subaru BRZ (purchased new) cost us $23,250 over five years (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/pursuing-rear-wheel-drive/msg1839668/#msg1839668).
Our Porsche Cayman S (purchased used) cost us $12,825 in just the first year of ownership (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/pursuing-rear-wheel-drive/msg2218753/#msg2218753)!
I did the sums myself for my Boxster S (very similar car, obviously) and it cost me $14,500 per year. Well worth it, I felt - although my car did make up about 30% of my total spending last year!
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It will go down the longer you own the car, but at $446/month, I can see why one can get rich by biking everywhere.
Thanks for posting this. It does look like your starting mileage and current mileage are backwards.
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This is a good example of why its not always best to buy an older used car. You had about $1000 per year in maintenance/repairs and probably about $1000/yr in depreciation. I bought a three year old sonata for $11,000. And expect about $1000/yr depreciation and only $500 or less in maintenance/repairs per year because its newer. Also the headache of having to go to the mechanic to get stuff fixed every year should be factored into the equation when deciding how old of a used car to buy. All in all though, not a bad 5 yr cost.
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This is great. I think it shows that even though you had quite a bit of bad luck, it still works cheaper than buying a new car.
I bought my Camry for $5K with 170,000 miles five years ago. Now at 230,000 - I haven't had to spend a penny on it. Knock on wood.
I might try to run the numbers through your spreadsheet.
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This is great. I think it shows that even though you had quite a bit of bad luck, it still works cheaper than buying a new car.
I bought my Camry for $5K with 170,000 miles five years ago. Now at 230,000 - I haven't had to spend a penny on it. Knock on wood.
I might try to run the numbers through your spreadsheet.
Oil changes? Tires?
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I've kept pretty much every service record since I've owned my vehicle. Thought it might be interesting little data set to share. Car was purchased used for cash in May 2014 for $6,650. After sales tax and registration fees, came out to $7,175. Maintenance is classified as anything that is replaced per normal wear and tear. Service was any mechanical or any "unusual" repair that was made.
The overall cost of ownership, including the initial purchase and came out to around $446 per month.
What make/model is this car. This the list of service you show, I would have assumed something circa early 00's at the newest, but then I saw "HID headlight replacement" which pegs it as at oldest and early 10's. If this is an early 10s model, you got quite the lemon.
Oh, a 2007 mazda. Yeah, that explains it.
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I've kept pretty much every service record since I've owned my vehicle. Thought it might be interesting little data set to share. Car was purchased used for cash in May 2014 for $6,650. After sales tax and registration fees, came out to $7,175. Maintenance is classified as anything that is replaced per normal wear and tear. Service was any mechanical or any "unusual" repair that was made.
The overall cost of ownership, including the initial purchase and came out to around $446 per month.
What make/model is this car. This the list of service you show, I would have assumed something circa early 00's at the newest, but then I saw "HID headlight replacement" which pegs it as at oldest and early 10's. If this is an early 10s model, you got quite the lemon.
Eh? My 2004 Cadillac CTS-V and my 2006 Mazdaspeed6 both had HIDs. Prius's got them in 2005.
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I've kept pretty much every service record since I've owned my vehicle. Thought it might be interesting little data set to share. Car was purchased used for cash in May 2014 for $6,650. After sales tax and registration fees, came out to $7,175. Maintenance is classified as anything that is replaced per normal wear and tear. Service was any mechanical or any "unusual" repair that was made.
The overall cost of ownership, including the initial purchase and came out to around $446 per month.
What make/model is this car. This the list of service you show, I would have assumed something circa early 00's at the newest, but then I saw "HID headlight replacement" which pegs it as at oldest and early 10's. If this is an early 10s model, you got quite the lemon.
Eh? My 2004 Cadillac CTS-V and my 2006 Mazdaspeed6 both had HIDs. Prius's got them in 2005.
Sorry, I read "HID" and my mind was thinking "LED".
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I have a Prius v 3 - bought new in 2011. I have to say I'm very happy with the car. We downsized to this from a minivan. This car is a wagon so its very useful for moving stuff. For example, I have to help my daughter move out if her apartment and this car is just amazing in how much it can hold. I plan to keep this car as long as I possibly can.
Ah, gotcha. I was correct in my assumption you have a hybrid/electric vehicle. Your total gas expenses looked super cheap.
It will go down the longer you own the car, but at $446/month, I can see why one can get rich by biking everywhere.
Thanks for posting this. It does look like your starting mileage and current mileage are backwards.
You're right - I'll edit to make fixes later.
This is great. I think it shows that even though you had quite a bit of bad luck, it still works cheaper than buying a new car.
I bought my Camry for $5K with 170,000 miles five years ago. Now at 230,000 - I haven't had to spend a penny on it. Knock on wood.
I might try to run the numbers through your spreadsheet.
I would say the only bad luck really was when the transmission needed work. Luckily, I found a good transmission guy that determined only the valve body needed a replacement. Another shop easily could've said the whole tranny needs to be replaced, so I got pretty lucky there!
Unfortunately I don't have a plug and chug spreadsheet. This is just a quick list I put together and used a pivot table to summarize.
I've kept pretty much every service record since I've owned my vehicle. Thought it might be interesting little data set to share. Car was purchased used for cash in May 2014 for $6,650. After sales tax and registration fees, came out to $7,175. Maintenance is classified as anything that is replaced per normal wear and tear. Service was any mechanical or any "unusual" repair that was made.
The overall cost of ownership, including the initial purchase and came out to around $446 per month.
What make/model is this car. This the list of service you show, I would have assumed something circa early 00's at the newest, but then I saw "HID headlight replacement" which pegs it as at oldest and early 10's. If this is an early 10s model, you got quite the lemon.
Eh? My 2004 Cadillac CTS-V and my 2006 Mazdaspeed6 both had HIDs. Prius's got them in 2005.
Yeah, the lower headlights are HID and require taking the front bumper apart. Quite the PIA. The high beams you can just reach in and replace.
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This is a good example of why its not always best to buy an older used car. You had about $1000 per year in maintenance/repairs and probably about $1000/yr in depreciation. I bought a three year old sonata for $11,000. And expect about $1000/yr depreciation and only $500 or less in maintenance/repairs per year because its newer. Also the headache of having to go to the mechanic to get stuff fixed every year should be factored into the equation when deciding how old of a used car to buy. All in all though, not a bad 5 yr cost.
This is a good point. I remember last year I spent probably 2 full working days taking the car around to get parts, to and front the mechanic and the tire shop. Man, that took quite a bit of time, and my time is definitely not worth $0!
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Last time I checked, the cost for my German sports car was $5000/year over 14 years. The cost is lower now because I don't drive it much and there's still some depreciation. Mileage is around 77k. I do a lot of the maintenance and repairs myself.
Bought more-or-less new.
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We bought a 2008 Toyota Corolla 4 years ago for 10k. Recently bought tires. We change the oil and that’s all that’s been required. It came with 27k miles and now has 52k. In the long run this car will be really cheap.
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We bought our 1999 Camry 5.5 years ago for about $5500, with 88k miles.
In those 5.5 years, it’s probably cost us about $1000/yr in repairs and routine maintenance above and beyond the averages (oil changes, tires, batteries)
This included things like, front and rear struts, timing belt, headlights, etc... Mostly also all wear and tear items..
We just renewed the inspection for the next year and it’s getting an oil change and tires rotated today.. It’s at about 150k miles now.. I can easily afford and would enjoy a new car, but I keep telling myself “once it really craps out,” but just hasn’t had “that” bad of a single repair/maintenance item needed yet..
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Interesting! I’m going to do the same for my Kia Soul.
One suggestion would be to add both an estimate of your time and the opportunity cost.
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I don't have current numbers since I'm behind on my records (shame on me), but I have meticulous complete records from 2012-2017.
We (household of two) drove 139,287 miles from 2012-2017, an average of 23,215 miles/year.
Our costs were:
Year Miles $
2012 13312 $1,996.80
2013 16407 $3,687.60
2014 28168 $6,201.83
2015 35314 $7,479.12
2016 23284 $5,333.94
2017 22802 $5,334.83
Average total cost of $417/mo and $0.22/mile. Two car household from 2014-2016, just one car in the other years.
The breakdown:
23% Maintenance/repairs
49% Fuel
11% Insurance
11% Depreciation
6% Registration/taxes
We drive too much, but our costs aren't all that bad.
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I've kept pretty much every service record since I've owned my vehicle. Thought it might be interesting little data set to share. Car was purchased used for cash in May 2014 for $6,650. After sales tax and registration fees, came out to $7,175. Maintenance is classified as anything that is replaced per normal wear and tear. Service was any mechanical or any "unusual" repair that was made.
The overall cost of ownership, including the initial purchase and came out to around $446 per month.
What make/model is this car. This the list of service you show, I would have assumed something circa early 00's at the newest, but then I saw "HID headlight replacement" which pegs it as at oldest and early 10's. If this is an early 10s model, you got quite the lemon.
Eh? My 2004 Cadillac CTS-V and my 2006 Mazdaspeed6 both had HIDs. Prius's got them in 2005.
JLee the Speed6 was my favorite, after about 10 years and 200K miles mine was starting to rust out sadly (thanks New England). I would have bought that car again if I could have.
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Great spreadsheet and an idea a friend of mine and I were just talking about this weekend. I am scared to see what the numbers look like on the money pit of a car I foolishly bought last year that I am unloading soon.
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I wonder how this would compare to a new car with similar payment?
I get into discussions from time to time about the cost of used vs new. I'm on the side of used cars, of course, but my friend is only ever thinking of new car payment (i.e. not considering insurance/gas/maintenance/registration), and telling me I have to add in the cost of maintenance on my used car. Well, yeah, I have to add up all the costs - and so do you. I've never had any luck convincing someone that used is cheaper.
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I use Mint to maintain data for the 3 or 4 cars we own.
Auto (Column B) = Total of Insurance, Gas, Service Parts, Misc
Misc (Column J) = Car cost, registration... I need to investigate the ~$50 charges from 2015
… and then I use conditional formatting on a 12 mo rolling average to the right of each column to see the direction things are going. (Green is good)
Still work to be done.
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Interesting! I’m going to do the same for my Kia Soul.
One suggestion would be to add both an estimate of your time and the opportunity cost.
Will be added, stay tuned. Also, will be adding a few other hypothetical scenarios.
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This makes me feel better about taking Lyft twice a week!
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I wonder how this would compare to a new car with similar payment?
I get into discussions from time to time about the cost of used vs new. I'm on the side of used cars, of course, but my friend is only ever thinking of new car payment (i.e. not considering insurance/gas/maintenance/registration), and telling me I have to add in the cost of maintenance on my used car. Well, yeah, I have to add up all the costs - and so do you. I've never had any luck convincing someone that used is cheaper.
The biggest difference is opportunity cost (assuming positive returns on investing money saved) which most people don't factor in.
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I think people forget that new cars need to be regularly maintained too and that costs $$$. Older cars MAY require the rare repairs as components rust/fail, but all cars should be maintained on their factory maintenance schedule (fluid changes, tire rotations, spark plugs, filters, etc) to maximize the lifetime of the vehicle. Actually a case could be made that an older car could need less maintenance than a newer car because an old car has already lived a long life, so maybe it's not worth changing the transmission fluid on a car with 200k miles, but you should definitely do it on your new car with 30k miles.
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Holy crap I thought my 04 civic I've had for 6 years had some pricey maintenance lol. Your values are UP there
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Interesting. My FIL has a theory that every car costs $500 a month--older ones due to repairs, newer ones due to payments. Now I want to go look up my costs!
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I have a paid off 2010 Ford Fusion i bought for $15k with like 75k miles on it. I think I'm closing in on 115k-120k miles. I have been keeping detailed records since 2016. The below costs include all gas, maintenance, car insurance, and taxes. There is a new battery, new set of tires, regular oil changes, and other regularly scheduled maintenance in there.
Year Annual Monthly
2016 $1,860 $155
2017 $2,212 $184
2018 $2,144 $179
Total $6,216 $173
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This is great. I think it shows that even though you had quite a bit of bad luck, it still works cheaper than buying a new car.
I bought my Camry for $5K with 170,000 miles five years ago. Now at 230,000 - I haven't had to spend a penny on it. Knock on wood.
I might try to run the numbers through your spreadsheet.
I ran my numbers, no mechanical issues, 5 years:
Car 5000
Oil Changes 1050
Tires 400
Fuel 6000
Insurance 4000
Tax / Rego 600
Total 17050
Cost per month: $284.16
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I bought a 2001 Toyota Solara with 152k miles in December 2015. It cost $2000 plus $800 in immediate maintenance (asking price was $3000). In 42 months, I've put another 20k miles on it, replaced the battery, replaced the catalytic converter (ouch!), at least one other maintenance thing I can't remember, and done regular oil changes + a smog check.
In the last eight months, I have been splitting insurance costs with my partner and he has taken over paying most of the gas (because he's doing most of the driving), so the overall average is higher than my recent monthly average would be.
Totals:
$2804 purchase cost (including up front maintenance like new tires)
$1741 maintenance since then
$2199 insurance
$1935 gas
$ 372 registration fees
$9021 total, for an average of $214/month
That seems to be on the low end for this thread, but it's more than I spend on everything except for rent and charity, so I'm slightly horrified. I guess I can hope to get $1000 back out of it someday? I'm definitely glad we are a one-car couple.
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@Tass and @SaucyAussie did very well. It seems be Toyota and Honda are the more reliable car manufacturers, yielding low costs of ownership. I'm not surprised. I think one of those will be next.
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To be fair, mine is *my* cost of ownership, which is less than the total cost of ownership of the car. My partner has probably spent $650 on the car in the last 8 months? That would bring the monthly average up to $230. Which is still pretty good I guess. :)
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To be fair, mine is *my* cost of ownership, which is less than the total cost of ownership of the car. My partner has probably spent $650 on the car in the last 8 months? That would bring the monthly average up to $230. Which is still pretty good I guess. :)
Also you are only averaging about 6K mileage per year and the other posters seem to be around double that.
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To be fair, mine is *my* cost of ownership, which is less than the total cost of ownership of the car. My partner has probably spent $650 on the car in the last 8 months? That would bring the monthly average up to $230. Which is still pretty good I guess. :)
Also you are only averaging about 6K mileage per year and the other posters seem to be around double that.
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this-and it's a ford so depreciation is brutal. I drove my 2004 civic the last 5 years 90k miles/will put together a sheet right now
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Insurance- 800/year (michigan has the worst rates, this is plpd only and the bottom of the barrel price wise)
Maint:
2016 engine cradle (one mount freak rusted and broke) $250
2017 rear brakes/rotors $250
2017 exhaust manifold and weld $150
2018 new 90k tires 400 (could have gone cheaper)
2019 now $1000 timing belt, motor mount, camshaft sensor and bolt, water pump/new coolant and mt fluid (500 labor)
2019 battery $85
Currently, 160k miles-timing belt/water pump issue was double what it should have been due to the camshaft failing and a hydraulic engine mount being bad
80k miles/5=16000/year
total costs
-2500 in depreciation
-maint-2135+ oil changes at $15 diy every 7.5k $160
-gas i've kept all logs but for the sake of simplicity let's say I average 38mpg (5 speed- i average low mid 40s summer mid low 30s winter) @2.80/gas
=around 5894 in gas
-Insurance 800x5=4500
total 15,189/5=3,037.8/yr =253.15/month. This is driving 16k a year. I don't know if these comparisons are really smart to make as insurance is going to vary like crazy. A 2018 chevy cruze full coverage for me would be minimum $100 more a month/1200 more a year (tacking on $6k over 5 years)
The major factors are depreciation/maintnance/mpg has a play if you drive a ton. Toyotas and hondas are cheaper for parts/don't take near the hit OEM cars do depreciation wise.
Note- I expect longer returns as I'm keeping it until it dies. The timing belt/pump service is 100k so in theory should be fine until 260k.
I'm also getting more into DIY and will be doing my front brakes and rotors, shocks, control arms, etc. This should save me heavily on those when they come due.
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Purchased my 2012 Ford Focus in 2012.
80,000 miles on it.
So far, including the brand new purchase price, taxes, insurance (initially full coverage while there were car payments), interest on payments (2.0% loan), maintenance (first several years the maintenance was covered by Ford as part of a service package), and one repair (faulty evap emissions valve), one set of new tires, one battery replacement, and gas @ roughly 40mpg typically and
My spending per month comes out to approx $430 per month cost to own and operate ASSUMING the car has zero value today
(with an expected current private sale value of $6500 from KBB the per month cost to own drops to just over $350 per month).
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Insurance- 800/year (michigan has the worst rates, this is plpd only and the bottom of the barrel price wise)
Maint:
2016 engine cradle (one mount freak rusted and broke) $250
2017 rear brakes/rotors $250
2017 exhaust manifold and weld $150
2018 new 90k tires 400 (could have gone cheaper)
2019 now $1000 timing belt, motor mount, camshaft sensor and bolt, water pump/new coolant and mt fluid (500 labor)
2019 battery $85
Currently, 160k miles-timing belt/water pump issue was double what it should have been due to the camshaft failing and a hydraulic engine mount being bad
80k miles/5=16000/year
total costs
-2500 in depreciation
-maint-2135+ oil changes at $15 diy every 7.5k $160
-gas i've kept all logs but for the sake of simplicity let's say I average 38mpg (5 speed- i average low mid 40s summer mid low 30s winter) @2.80/gas
=around 5894 in gas
-Insurance 800x5=4500
total 15,189/5=3,037.8/yr =253.15/month. This is driving 16k a year. I don't know if these comparisons are really smart to make as insurance is going to vary like crazy. A 2018 chevy cruze full coverage for me would be minimum $100 more a month/1200 more a year (tacking on $6k over 5 years)
The major factors are depreciation/maintnance/mpg has a play if you drive a ton. Toyotas and hondas are cheaper for parts/don't take near the hit OEM cars do depreciation wise.
Note- I expect longer returns as I'm keeping it until it dies. The timing belt/pump service is 100k so in theory should be fine until 260k.
I'm also getting more into DIY and will be doing my front brakes and rotors, shocks, control arms, etc. This should save me heavily on those when they come due.
What type of vehicle is this?
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Insurance- 800/year (michigan has the worst rates, this is plpd only and the bottom of the barrel price wise)
Maint:
2016 engine cradle (one mount freak rusted and broke) $250
2017 rear brakes/rotors $250
2017 exhaust manifold and weld $150
2018 new 90k tires 400 (could have gone cheaper)
2019 now $1000 timing belt, motor mount, camshaft sensor and bolt, water pump/new coolant and mt fluid (500 labor)
2019 battery $85
Currently, 160k miles-timing belt/water pump issue was double what it should have been due to the camshaft failing and a hydraulic engine mount being bad
80k miles/5=16000/year
total costs
-2500 in depreciation
-maint-2135+ oil changes at $15 diy every 7.5k $160
-gas i've kept all logs but for the sake of simplicity let's say I average 38mpg (5 speed- i average low mid 40s summer mid low 30s winter) @2.80/gas
=around 5894 in gas
-Insurance 800x5=4500
total 15,189/5=3,037.8/yr =253.15/month. This is driving 16k a year. I don't know if these comparisons are really smart to make as insurance is going to vary like crazy. A 2018 chevy cruze full coverage for me would be minimum $100 more a month/1200 more a year (tacking on $6k over 5 years)
The major factors are depreciation/maintnance/mpg has a play if you drive a ton. Toyotas and hondas are cheaper for parts/don't take near the hit OEM cars do depreciation wise.
Note- I expect longer returns as I'm keeping it until it dies. The timing belt/pump service is 100k so in theory should be fine until 260k.
I'm also getting more into DIY and will be doing my front brakes and rotors, shocks, control arms, etc. This should save me heavily on those when they come due.
What type of vehicle is this?
2004 Honda civic. 5 speed.
What amazes me is the lack of research people do when purchasing a good used vehicle. Scotty Kilmer on youtube is a good source for what's quality and what isn't.
The thing I keep seeing is my ford/gm/chrysler is good after x years and should be going forward....
As someone who lives in the big 3 state lemme tell ya-they're trash in value/reliability compared to the Japanese cars. They lose their value like crazy, are built to junk standards in comparison and have a model of replacing systems vs keeping them around (look at the tacoma, old powertrain-leader in reliability/value). Chryslers has gone downhill even more since the FCA acquisition, and they were down there anyways. Ford has all kinds of trans issues-junky resale. Gm has timing chain issues in the traverse, oil consumption in the equinox, blowing up engines in the new malibus, crap cruze reliability...... to put it in perspective my pops worked for gm for 25 years and as soon as he retired-bought a subaru.
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Subaru has been plagued with oil consumption and head gasket troubles...odd choice if long-term trouble-free ownership was the goal.
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I bought a 2003 Honda Element in 2014 for $6700.00. It had 120k miles on it at the time. It is at 191k miles now ( I used to drive across the country to visit my now-ex-bf so racked up a lot of miles for a few years there.) I feel like for the 70k miles I've put on the car, I have gotten off pretty easy.
Oil Changes/air filters, etc- $900
New Tires- $650
Snow Tires- $500 (these will last for like....10 years, because I don't drive a ton in the winter)
Front pads/rotors- $250
Weird unexpected valve service that saved me buying a new engine last fall- $250
All new struts, control arms, and alignment, etc in January - $1600. Oof this was the big one, but at 191k miles it seemed perfectly reasonable to me...especially since I hope to drive this car another 50-70k miles. I drive a lot on jeep roads/dirt roads to camp/hike, so I know I worked the suspension a bit.
I've literally had no surprise services except for that valve service...everything has been routine, if not delayed by me being really young when I first owned the car and not maintaining things properly for the first few years. Now that I am more financially stable, and have the extra money I make sure to do everything on time or even ahead of time. I put off the suspension for a while because it was just a huge chunk of money, but I wish I had done it sooner, it made such a big difference!
Total maintenance- around $4200
Insurance- right now I am paying $450 a year...but it has been higher at around $700 a year when I was younger.
Total- Probably around $3500 for insurance.
I have no idea on fuel costs....It's so expensive here, and I don't drive daily to work or anything, literally only for road trips, so I count it more into a "travel budget" than anything else.
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I'm seriously contemplating a move to a walkable area this fall where going car free is feasible. I'm debating on whether it would be a good idea to keep my car for the 8 hour drive to see family but these numbers put a different spin on it. There's lots of room for car rentals at ~$500/mo!
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I bought a 2003 Honda Element in 2014 for $6700.00. It had 120k miles on it at the time. It is at 191k miles now ( I used to drive across the country to visit my now-ex-bf so racked up a lot of miles for a few years there.) I feel like for the 70k miles I've put on the car, I have gotten off pretty easy.
Oil Changes/air filters, etc- $900
New Tires- $650
Snow Tires- $500 (these will last for like....10 years, because I don't drive a ton in the winter)
Front pads/rotors- $250
Weird unexpected valve service that saved me buying a new engine last fall- $250
All new struts, control arms, and alignment, etc in January - $1600. Oof this was the big one, but at 191k miles it seemed perfectly reasonable to me...especially since I hope to drive this car another 50-70k miles. I drive a lot on jeep roads/dirt roads to camp/hike, so I know I worked the suspension a bit.
I've literally had no surprise services except for that valve service...everything has been routine, if not delayed by me being really young when I first owned the car and not maintaining things properly for the first few years. Now that I am more financially stable, and have the extra money I make sure to do everything on time or even ahead of time. I put off the suspension for a while because it was just a huge chunk of money, but I wish I had done it sooner, it made such a big difference!
Total maintenance- around $4200
Insurance- right now I am paying $450 a year...but it has been higher at around $700 a year when I was younger.
Total- Probably around $3500 for insurance.
I have no idea on fuel costs....It's so expensive here, and I don't drive daily to work or anything, literally only for road trips, so I count it more into a "travel budget" than anything else.
Don't try to use a pair of winter tyres for 10 years. Even if they have plenty of tred, they suffer from degradation just due to age (more so if they aren't frequently used). Its a great way to get a blowout or other catastrophic failure while flying down the highway. 7 years is generally a good rule of thumb.
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This is great. I think it shows that even though you had quite a bit of bad luck, it still works cheaper than buying a new car.
I bought my Camry for $5K with 170,000 miles five years ago. Now at 230,000 - I haven't had to spend a penny on it. Knock on wood.
I might try to run the numbers through your spreadsheet.
I paid 13K for my 2012 Camry. I change the oil twice a year, tires when needed. Gas up once or twide a month. I drive less than 7K miles a year.
My friends with the latest clown cars all make fun of it, but in return I make fun of their minuscule bank balances.*
* not really.
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I'm seriously contemplating a move to a walkable area this fall where going car free is feasible. I'm debating on whether it would be a good idea to keep my car for the 8 hour drive to see family but these numbers put a different spin on it. There's lots of room for car rentals at ~$500/mo!
I gave up my car when I moved to Chicago 6 1/2 years ago. I just peeked at Personal Capital, and my "Transportation" category has averaged about $85/month since Jan 2016 (when I started keeping good records). Add in the cost of my bike (which was in 2007, but whatever) and it's $100/month.
That average includes: public transit, Uber/Lyft/taxis, ZipCar/car2go, bike share, personal bike gear + maintenance, the occasional tank of gas for my ex's car, and even a few month's worth of Amtrak tickets during a long-distance-relationship phase. (It doesn't include a couple-three car rentals for road-trips, but most trips I've taken are to places I have to fly to anyhow.)
I don't have good records for my previous car-centric life in Texas (where I rode my bike as much as I could, but still drove most days of the week), but I wouldn't doubt it was closer to the above $400-$500 average.
Assuming I've saved $300/month on transportation in 6 1/2 years, that's $23,400 in savings.
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I'm seriously contemplating a move to a walkable area this fall where going car free is feasible. I'm debating on whether it would be a good idea to keep my car for the 8 hour drive to see family but these numbers put a different spin on it. There's lots of room for car rentals at ~$500/mo!
I gave up my car when I moved to Chicago 6 1/2 years ago. I just peeked at Personal Capital, and my "Transportation" category has averaged about $85/month since Jan 2016 (when I started keeping good records). Add in the cost of my bike (which was in 2007, but whatever) and it's $100/month.
That average includes: public transit, Uber/Lyft/taxis, ZipCar/car2go, bike share, personal bike gear + maintenance, the occasional tank of gas for my ex's car, and even a few month's worth of Amtrak tickets during a long-distance-relationship phase. (It doesn't include a couple-three car rentals for road-trips, but most trips I've taken are to places I have to fly to anyhow.)
I don't have good records for my previous car-centric life in Texas (where I rode my bike as much as I could, but still drove most days of the week), but I wouldn't doubt it was closer to the above $400-$500 average.
Assuming I've saved $300/month on transportation in 6 1/2 years, that's $23,400 in savings.
Thanks for the anecdata @mjb !
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Subaru has been plagued with oil consumption and head gasket troubles...odd choice if long-term trouble-free ownership was the goal.
In michigan, they hold their value-same with Colorado etc. You'll never see them in Texas; so I guess at the very least it's got good resale. He also went with a baseline N/A model. We have a family friend who retires outbacks every 200k so I had no say in the matter (VERY familiar with issues that arise due to owning a 2004 wrx in my younger stupider days
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This is great. I think it shows that even though you had quite a bit of bad luck, it still works cheaper than buying a new car.
I bought my Camry for $5K with 170,000 miles five years ago. Now at 230,000 - I haven't had to spend a penny on it. Knock on wood.
I might try to run the numbers through your spreadsheet.
I paid 13K for my 2012 Camry. I change the oil twice a year, tires when needed. Gas up once or twide a month. I drive less than 7K miles a year.
My friends with the latest clown cars all make fun of it, but in return I make fun of their minuscule bank balances.*
* not really.
Do people actually make fun of 2012 cars now? That blows my mind.
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This is great. I think it shows that even though you had quite a bit of bad luck, it still works cheaper than buying a new car.
I bought my Camry for $5K with 170,000 miles five years ago. Now at 230,000 - I haven't had to spend a penny on it. Knock on wood.
I might try to run the numbers through your spreadsheet.
I paid 13K for my 2012 Camry. I change the oil twice a year, tires when needed. Gas up once or twide a month. I drive less than 7K miles a year.
My friends with the latest clown cars all make fun of it, but in return I make fun of their minuscule bank balances.*
* not really.
Do people actually make fun of 2012 cars now? That blows my mind.
The newest one I have is 2005, and after late-90's Toyota pickups it's positively luxurious :P
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This is great. I think it shows that even though you had quite a bit of bad luck, it still works cheaper than buying a new car.
I bought my Camry for $5K with 170,000 miles five years ago. Now at 230,000 - I haven't had to spend a penny on it. Knock on wood.
I might try to run the numbers through your spreadsheet.
I paid 13K for my 2012 Camry. I change the oil twice a year, tires when needed. Gas up once or twide a month. I drive less than 7K miles a year.
My friends with the latest clown cars all make fun of it, but in return I make fun of their minuscule bank balances.*
* not really.
Do people actually make fun of 2012 cars now? That blows my mind.
That is crazy. I feel like my 2013 and 2014 vehicles are practically brand new.
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Ooh, this thread is my jam. I keep a spreadsheet factoring in recurring and depreciating costs, split into a monthly commute and per mile cost. I use it more for projections than as a history, so it's not strictly accurate. It's based around average maintenance, insurance and fuel rates over the life of the car, plus actual cost for one-time repairs.
I run trade studies on how much to repair the car vs. how long I plan to own it. In general, if a large repair gives me 1 or more years of additional use, it's very worth the cost. My cars were bought for ~$5k, in cash directly from the seller through Craigslist or Auto Trader.
My last car was a 2003 Ford Focus station wagon I owned for about 5 years and came in around $18k in total expenses for the time I owned it. $0.26 total cost per mile ($0.17 operating; $0.09 depreciation). Based on my old, longer commute, it cost about $105 per month including all fuel, registration and insurance. I had several repairs including a timing belt change (auto shop), brakes (me), thermostat and tubing replacement (me), front strut replacement (me) and all oil changes and other scheduled maintenance (me).
My current car is a 2007 Mini Cooper. I've had it about 1.5 years, and it's noticeably more expensive than my Focus. Assuming it will be worth nothing when I'm done with it, it's running $0.87 per mile ($0.25 operating; $0.62 depreciation). I've already paid for a water pump and serpentine belt (auto shop), exhaust leak (auto shop), brakes (me), wheels and tires (auto shop and me), broken door handle, clogged fuel filter and various other pixies (me), and all oil changes and other scheduled maintenance (me).
If I keep the Mini 3 years total and pay a shop an additional $1500 for a clutch change it needs, I'll be looking at $0.61 per mile and about $250 a month (could do it myself for less, but honestly won't). 5 years of use and an additional $1500 in repairs is $0.50 per mile and $197 per month. Never as cheap as the Focus, but okay for me.
So... no. I don't find that keeping an old car fixed up is more expensive, but you must hold on to that old car after the repairs have been made, and ideally do a lot of it yourself for only the price of new parts. I dumped about $3,500 in parts and service into the Focus and it was an awesome deal. I am already at around $8,200 into the Mini from the shop visits, 1 set of tires, 2 sets of wheels and an engine pre-disposed to burning oil. Overall, though, I am satisfied as long as I can keep it running for a few more years. About $200 a month is my general goal and is sustainable into FI.
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I've kept pretty much every service record since I've owned my vehicle. Thought it might be interesting little data set to share. Car was purchased used for cash in May 2014 for $6,650. After sales tax and registration fees, came out to $7,175. Maintenance is classified as anything that is replaced per normal wear and tear. Service was any mechanical or any "unusual" repair that was made.
The overall cost of ownership, including the initial purchase and came out to around $446 per month.
I can definitely believe all your numbers. It seems like most of the work and oil changes were done at a shop? I think most of my cost savings have come from DIY rather than having any particular car itself - although the Focus is a fantastically cheap car to repair. Your data showed me a trend I hadn't noticed, but now see in my data, too: insurance and fuel are the driving expenses, even with an above average number of repairs. So driving less (and calling to get a lower rate) will always save you big money. It does seem like you were a bit unlucky on this particular car :\
I'm seriously contemplating a move to a walkable area this fall where going car free is feasible. I'm debating on whether it would be a good idea to keep my car for the 8 hour drive to see family but these numbers put a different spin on it. There's lots of room for car rentals at ~$500/mo!
I gave up my car when I moved to Chicago 6 1/2 years ago....
Assuming I've saved $300/month on transportation in 6 1/2 years, that's $23,400 in savings.
I absolutely believe this. Even my Focus, which might be one of the cheapest operating cars of all time, would have been almost exactly that cost over 6.5 years.
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Ooh, this thread is my jam. I keep a spreadsheet factoring in recurring and depreciating costs, split into a monthly commute and per mile cost. I use it more for projections than as a history, so it's not strictly accurate. It's based around average maintenance, insurance and fuel rates over the life of the car, plus actual cost for one-time repairs.
I run trade studies on how much to repair the car vs. how long I plan to own it. In general, if a large repair gives me 1 or more years of additional use, it's very worth the cost. My cars were bought for ~$5k, in cash directly from the seller through Craigslist or Auto Trader.
My last car was a 2003 Ford Focus station wagon I owned for about 5 years and came in around $18k in total expenses for the time I owned it. $0.26 total cost per mile ($0.17 operating; $0.09 depreciation). Based on my old, longer commute, it cost about $105 per month including all fuel, registration and insurance. I had several repairs including a timing belt change (auto shop), brakes (me), thermostat and tubing replacement (me), front strut replacement (me) and all oil changes and other scheduled maintenance (me).
My current car is a 2007 Mini Cooper. I've had it about 1.5 years, and it's noticeably more expensive than my Focus. Assuming it will be worth nothing when I'm done with it, it's running $0.87 per mile ($0.25 operating; $0.62 depreciation). I've already paid for a water pump and serpentine belt (auto shop), exhaust leak (auto shop), brakes (me), wheels and tires (auto shop and me), broken door handle, clogged fuel filter and various other pixies (me), and all oil changes and other scheduled maintenance (me).
If I keep the Mini 3 years total and pay a shop an additional $1500 for a clutch change it needs, I'll be looking at $0.61 per mile and about $250 a month (could do it myself for less, but honestly won't). 5 years of use and an additional $1500 in repairs is $0.50 per mile and $197 per month. Never as cheap as the Focus, but okay for me.
So... no. I don't find that keeping an old car fixed up is more expensive, but you must hold on to that old car after the repairs have been made, and ideally do a lot of it yourself for only the price of new parts. I dumped about $3,500 in parts and service into the Focus and it was an awesome deal. I am already at around $8,200 into the Mini from the shop visits, 1 set of tires, 2 sets of wheels and an engine pre-disposed to burning oil. Overall, though, I am satisfied as long as I can keep it running for a few more years. About $200 a month is my general goal and is sustainable into FI.
I realized this after meticulously tracking costs for my offroad/overland/camping vehicle. If I front-load all the costs and then only keep it for 3 years, I may have well just leased a new Colorado ZR2 that's already ready to go.
Now, if I keep it long enough, the equation shifts dramatically...which is the goal. :)
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One thing that strikes me in this thread is that DIY-ing car repair and maintenance *really* drives down the cost of ownership. I paid for the first timing belt ($700), and for one really difficult ignition issue ($600, mostly because it's pre-OBDII), and have done the rest myself other than tires.
I bought my '95 Corolla in '03 with 87k miles for $4500. In the past 16 years, it's required maybe $2000 in repairs and timing belts, plus the regular tires/oil/brakes. It still gets 25/35 mpg.
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One thing that strikes me in this thread is that DIY-ing car repair and maintenance *really* drives down the cost of ownership. I paid for the first timing belt ($700), and for one really difficult ignition issue ($600, mostly because it's pre-OBDII), and have done the rest myself other than tires.
I bought my '95 Corolla in '03 with 87k miles for $4500. In the past 16 years, it's required maybe $2000 in repairs and timing belts, plus the regular tires/oil/brakes. It still gets 25/35 mpg.
Do you find this anxiety-provoking or difficult? While I subscribe with the idea of DIY to reduce costs, one thing that I worry about with DIY repairs is catastrophic failure if done improperly. That, and the added amount of time to do something DIY. When my car breaks, I need it fixed ASAP to start using it again. If I start pulling things apart with no idea what I'm doing, there's the risk of taking a lot more time than anticipated, and no guarantee the repairs will be done when I need them.
My best cost reduction was having a trusted mechanic family friend type do my full brakes and rotors for $415 including parts (which I ordered from Rock Auto).
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One thing that strikes me in this thread is that DIY-ing car repair and maintenance *really* drives down the cost of ownership. I paid for the first timing belt ($700), and for one really difficult ignition issue ($600, mostly because it's pre-OBDII), and have done the rest myself other than tires.
I bought my '95 Corolla in '03 with 87k miles for $4500. In the past 16 years, it's required maybe $2000 in repairs and timing belts, plus the regular tires/oil/brakes. It still gets 25/35 mpg.
Do you find this anxiety-provoking or difficult? While I subscribe with the idea of DIY to reduce costs, one thing that I worry about with DIY repairs is catastrophic failure if done improperly. That, and the added amount of time to do something DIY. When my car breaks, I need it fixed ASAP to start using it again. If I start pulling things apart with no idea what I'm doing, there's the risk of taking a lot more time than anticipated, and no guarantee the repairs will be done when I need them.
My best cost reduction was having a trusted mechanic family friend type do my full brakes and rotors for $415 including parts (which I ordered from Rock Auto).
Ironically, many of the critical mechanical things that can go wrong with a car are cheaper to have a shop do than the less critical things. This is primarily because there is some design consideration about access and maintenance to those critical mechanical things. Car makers know that timing belts need changed or the engine blows up, so they design the vehicle to make it relatively reasonable to do that. This is not the case for less critical things.
For example, the blend door (the little flap that controls hot/cold mix for the heater/ac) on my old car broke. The little motor that moves the door stripped a gear. The price quotes I got to have shops change this were ~$800+ (which is balls-crazy). The reason (other than getting gouged) was because despite it being a cheap little part, in order to access that part "correctly" you have to remove much of the dash and center console and other interior parts, which isn't a routine task. Almost all that cost was the several hours of labor necessary to do that (the part itself was $100).
I ended up doing it myself, without removing half the interior, by cutting myself an access port through the dash. ;)
Anyway, the point being there are a lot of things that cost a LOT of have fixed and even if the fix isn't done right you are not talking about catastrophic failure. Taking these things on can cut down on TCO a lot without requiring expertise.
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One thing that strikes me in this thread is that DIY-ing car repair and maintenance *really* drives down the cost of ownership. I paid for the first timing belt ($700), and for one really difficult ignition issue ($600, mostly because it's pre-OBDII), and have done the rest myself other than tires.
I bought my '95 Corolla in '03 with 87k miles for $4500. In the past 16 years, it's required maybe $2000 in repairs and timing belts, plus the regular tires/oil/brakes. It still gets 25/35 mpg.
Do you find this anxiety-provoking or difficult? While I subscribe with the idea of DIY to reduce costs, one thing that I worry about with DIY repairs is catastrophic failure if done improperly. That, and the added amount of time to do something DIY. When my car breaks, I need it fixed ASAP to start using it again. If I start pulling things apart with no idea what I'm doing, there's the risk of taking a lot more time than anticipated, and no guarantee the repairs will be done when I need them.
My best cost reduction was having a trusted mechanic family friend type do my full brakes and rotors for $415 including parts (which I ordered from Rock Auto).
It may have been when I first started doing my own repairs, but it brings no anxiety now. I haven't done *every* car repair, but I've done a fair number, including most of the common ones, and I've gradually built up a collection of tools that make the jobs easier and less annoying.
For just about any repair, there's a Youtube video of it that'll take you step by step. And the more you do it, the more you realize "hey, this isn't actually all that bad."
When you talk about catastrophic failure, I think of things like your brakes failing, or the wheels falling off, or some part of the suspension failing, or the engine seizing up on the road. You have to remember, however, that most maintenance tasks (oil, tires, brakes, etc) are fairly simple, and there's not a lot you can do wrong with them. When I changed the brake pads on our minivan a week ago, it was like this:
1) Jack up car (use jack stands!)
2) remove wheels
3) remove two bolts holding the brake caliber on, and lift caliper out of the way
4) pull out worn pads
5) then reverse steps 4-1, starting by inserting new brake pads
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I haven't tracked my gas/insurance costs--I figure I'd be paying those regardless of new or used car--but I'm very meticulous about tracking maintenance and repairs. I bought an 03 Honda in 2010 at around 115K miles, and since then it's cost me $8592 in repairs and maintenance (including two sets of new tires and a timing belt change), or about $80 a month. I was driving pretty minimally for a good chunk of that time, which reduced wear and tear--I used bike+transit to get to and from work until I switched jobs and went to night shift--but things still age out (tires) or wear out. Still, compared to some of other folks' costs I've seen on this thread, I'm feeling pretty good about how economical my car has been so far, esp. considering I don't do any of my own repairs!
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...So... no. I don't find that keeping an old car fixed up is more expensive, but you must hold on to that old car after the repairs have been made, and ideally do a lot of it yourself for only the price of new parts.
I realized this after meticulously tracking costs for my offroad/overland/camping vehicle. If I front-load all the costs and then only keep it for 3 years, I may have well just leased a new Colorado ZR2 that's already ready to go.
Now, if I keep it long enough, the equation shifts dramatically...which is the goal. :)
I actually realized the same thing a year or two ago! A cheap lease is not terrible universally, IF you can stick to all the terms, IF you require a certain level of comfort/newness and would pay a premium for it anyway, and IF the idea of going to the dealer for all scheduled maintenance is fine with you (for me, I will sooner stab myself in the eye).
I haven't tracked my gas/insurance costs--I figure I'd be paying those regardless of new or used car--but I'm very meticulous about tracking maintenance and repairs. I bought an 03 Honda in 2010 at around 115K miles, and since then it's cost me $8592 in repairs and maintenance (including two sets of new tires and a timing belt change), or about $80 a month. I was driving pretty minimally for a good chunk of that time, which reduced wear and tear--I used bike+transit to get to and from work until I switched jobs and went to night shift--but things still age out (tires) or wear out. Still, compared to some of other folks' costs I've seen on this thread, I'm feeling pretty good about how economical my car has been so far, esp. considering I don't do any of my own repairs!
Nice! The Honda/Toyota reliability really shows at those higher mileages, IMO, but you pay upfront for it. It's probably worth it, though. Too bad you didn't keep details; I'd be curious to see how it was before/after biking. I found that supplementing my commute with transit and carpooling even a few days a week made a really noticeably difference because so many recurring costs were driven by mileage.
My spreadsheet actually assumed the same commute for the Focus and the Mini, but since my mileage is currently half what it used to be, it really makes the differences in cost less severe ($105 vs $175). I used to carpool with my husband and switch ever other day which brought my monthly cost to about $85 total.
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One thing that strikes me in this thread is that DIY-ing car repair and maintenance *really* drives down the cost of ownership. I paid for the first timing belt ($700), and for one really difficult ignition issue ($600, mostly because it's pre-OBDII), and have done the rest myself other than tires.
I bought my '95 Corolla in '03 with 87k miles for $4500. In the past 16 years, it's required maybe $2000 in repairs and timing belts, plus the regular tires/oil/brakes. It still gets 25/35 mpg.
Do you find this anxiety-provoking or difficult? While I subscribe with the idea of DIY to reduce costs, one thing that I worry about with DIY repairs is catastrophic failure if done improperly. That, and the added amount of time to do something DIY. When my car breaks, I need it fixed ASAP to start using it again. If I start pulling things apart with no idea what I'm doing, there's the risk of taking a lot more time than anticipated, and no guarantee the repairs will be done when I need them.
My best cost reduction was having a trusted mechanic family friend type do my full brakes and rotors for $415 including parts (which I ordered from Rock Auto).
Making informed decisions like this is probably the best. A person can just do as much or as little as they want. If that means dropping the engine for a powertrain repair, have at it. But if it's understanding what brake pad and tire wear looks like so you have them replaced at the right time, that's also really good. Or supplying your own parts like @zolotiyeruki and finding a decent estimate for the labor (~$100 an hour in my area is typical of a professional).
I'll be honest. Just about every repair I've done has been at some point a bit anxiety inducing the first time, even though I am a pretty handy person. Popping my wheels on and off no longer bothers me, but my first time years aog, I was super nervous about getting exactly the right torque and what if they came loose and checking them after driving to be sure they were still good. It's fine, it'll be fine, just pay attention to what you do. For me, only after doing it once am I totally comfortable. But that's what a good challenge feels like to me. And worst case scenario for larger repairs, I have to pay to have my car taken to a shop halfway through if I get stuck, which really isn't as horrible as it sounds. Having the right tools in advance makes getting stuck less likely, but it almost always takes longer than you think you will until you've done it a few times.
I'm not sure about where any of you live, but around Detroit, it is the land of shitbox vehicles. I am shocked some of these things are moving 75+ mph down the freeway. I regularly see cars driving with a suspension arm dragging on the pavement. Or hear heinous exhaust leaks. See bent rims, missing lug nuts, bald tires. These are NOT good things to have... however... cars are designed to still operate under some pretty adverse conditions. You cannot fuck up worse than these cars if you are trying your best.
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Nice! The Honda/Toyota reliability really shows at those higher mileages, IMO, but you pay upfront for it. It's probably worth it, though. Too bad you didn't keep details; I'd be curious to see how it was before/after biking. I found that supplementing my commute with transit and carpooling even a few days a week made a really noticeably difference because so many recurring costs were driven by mileage.
My spreadsheet actually assumed the same commute for the Focus and the Mini, but since my mileage is currently half what it used to be, it really makes the differences in cost less severe ($105 vs $175). I used to carpool with my husband and switch ever other day which brought my monthly cost to about $85 total.
Well, I'm only six months into the night shift, so it's too early to tell how much of a maintenance hit I'm going to take from having a 50 mile (round trip) commute every day. I can say that when I was biking+transit, I budgeted $50 a month for gas and rarely needed even that much (except for months where I was driving for vacations, etc.). And insurance has always been inexpensive, given the age of the car--I dropped comprehensive coverage for liability only a couple years into ownership when the KBB dropped down to the point that it just wasn't worth it anymore.
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Ooh, this thread is my jam. I keep a spreadsheet factoring in recurring and depreciating costs, split into a monthly commute and per mile cost. I use it more for projections than as a history, so it's not strictly accurate. It's based around average maintenance, insurance and fuel rates over the life of the car, plus actual cost for one-time repairs.
I run trade studies on how much to repair the car vs. how long I plan to own it. In general, if a large repair gives me 1 or more years of additional use, it's very worth the cost. My cars were bought for ~$5k, in cash directly from the seller through Craigslist or Auto Trader.
My last car was a 2003 Ford Focus station wagon I owned for about 5 years and came in around $18k in total expenses for the time I owned it. $0.26 total cost per mile ($0.17 operating; $0.09 depreciation). Based on my old, longer commute, it cost about $105 per month including all fuel, registration and insurance. I had several repairs including a timing belt change (auto shop), brakes (me), thermostat and tubing replacement (me), front strut replacement (me) and all oil changes and other scheduled maintenance (me).
My current car is a 2007 Mini Cooper. I've had it about 1.5 years, and it's noticeably more expensive than my Focus. Assuming it will be worth nothing when I'm done with it, it's running $0.87 per mile ($0.25 operating; $0.62 depreciation). I've already paid for a water pump and serpentine belt (auto shop), exhaust leak (auto shop), brakes (me), wheels and tires (auto shop and me), broken door handle, clogged fuel filter and various other pixies (me), and all oil changes and other scheduled maintenance (me).
If I keep the Mini 3 years total and pay a shop an additional $1500 for a clutch change it needs, I'll be looking at $0.61 per mile and about $250 a month (could do it myself for less, but honestly won't). 5 years of use and an additional $1500 in repairs is $0.50 per mile and $197 per month. Never as cheap as the Focus, but okay for me.
So... no. I don't find that keeping an old car fixed up is more expensive, but you must hold on to that old car after the repairs have been made, and ideally do a lot of it yourself for only the price of new parts. I dumped about $3,500 in parts and service into the Focus and it was an awesome deal. I am already at around $8,200 into the Mini from the shop visits, 1 set of tires, 2 sets of wheels and an engine pre-disposed to burning oil. Overall, though, I am satisfied as long as I can keep it running for a few more years. About $200 a month is my general goal and is sustainable into FI.
Mini cooper. Reliable/affordable to fix. Pick one. My gf had one. Wanna talk engineering nightmares?
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Mini cooper. Reliable/affordable to fix. Pick one. My gf had one. Wanna talk engineering nightmares?
No joke. There's a reason "German engineering" has a reputation! Like needing to remove the bumper in order to replace a headlight bulb. (https://www.wisebread.com/to-change-the-bulb-just-remove-the-bumper-wait-what) :D
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Mini cooper. Reliable/affordable to fix. Pick one. My gf had one. Wanna talk engineering nightmares?
No joke. There's a reason "German engineering" has a reputation! Like needing to remove the bumper in order to replace a headlight bulb. (https://www.wisebread.com/to-change-the-bulb-just-remove-the-bumper-wait-what) :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp0LdnreYmE this sums it up for me
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I'll chime in on this one, since I've got the data handy and I've enjoyed reading about all of yours.
To clarify, I had an accident that totaled my prior car, and I rolled the excess medical liability settlement funds into the purchase price, since to me it was a part of the total costs of the "buy a car" event. Insurance payout on the old car itself was given to my parents (they gifted me the old car 7 years prior), so that was not included. Operating Costs are everything except original purchase price, and Variable Costs are gas and maintenance. Maintenance includes snow tires and dedicated wheels purchased this year for about $519.
I've had it for about 2.5 years at this point and I've put about 40K on it. I take a lot of ridiculous road trips and budget accordingly.
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Mini cooper. Reliable/affordable to fix. Pick one. My gf had one. Wanna talk engineering nightmares?
No joke. There's a reason "German engineering" has a reputation! Like needing to remove the bumper in order to replace a headlight bulb. (https://www.wisebread.com/to-change-the-bulb-just-remove-the-bumper-wait-what) :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp0LdnreYmE this sums it up for me
The Mini saga continues: I've spent the last month repairing it on weekends after ending up in the middle of a 3-car fender bender. I had to replace some suspension and the process was significantly harder than necessary because of the lint-for-brains design process at BMW. My lower control arm folded like a taco and needed to be fully removed. The rear bushing mount is bolted into the subframe from the top-down instead of the bottom-up, and is thus impossible to remove with the subframe in place since the bolt heads are sandwiched between subframe and body. I noticed they swapped the direction on later years, so at least someone learned something... :\
I'm at $0.80 a mile, thanks to a small insurance payout and cheaper parts, but it'll jump to $0.89 a mile after I get the new hood and paint. I'll keep rocking the scratched tailgate indefinitely, but the way the hood surrounds the headlights (form over function, ya'll got me again) the hood can't close without being near perfect condition.
Had I taken it to a shop, I estimate it would have been $5k+ to repair. In the short term, I would have made out better if I'd kept collision coverage and let them total it, but only by about $400 since I've owned and insured the car for only 19 months.
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There are a couple of instances in this thread where people have counted the entire purchase price as a cost, but are not entering the car’s current value as a credit offsetting that cost. In other words, some people have reported price instead of depreciation. Given that any running and driving car (no AC and multiple colors) can be sold for $1500, your cost of ownership is overstated unless you just donated the car to charity or something.
Also, are any of you aware of Edmunds.com’s True Cost of Ownership calculator?
https://www.edmunds.com/tco.html (https://www.edmunds.com/tco.html)
It only works for newer models, probably because luck plays a larger role in older cars’ durability and costs. Still, they do a damn good job and can get really close to your actual experience. Note: For those of us who pay cash, the “financing” cost can be thought of as opportunity cost or foregone interest we could have earned.
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There are a couple of instances in this thread where people have counted the entire purchase price as a cost, but are not entering the car’s current value as a credit offsetting that cost. In other words, some people have reported price instead of depreciation. Given that any running and driving car (no AC and multiple colors) can be sold for $1500, your cost of ownership is overstated unless you just donated the car to charity or something.
Also, are any of you aware of Edmunds.com’s True Cost of Ownership calculator?
https://www.edmunds.com/tco.html (https://www.edmunds.com/tco.html)
It only works for newer models, probably because luck plays a larger role in older cars’ durability and costs. Still, they do a damn good job and can get really close to your actual experience. Note: For those of us who pay cash, the “financing” cost can be thought of as opportunity cost or foregone interest we could have earned.
That's a fair point. However, I think a large percentage of the folks here are using the more conservative "and I'll drive it until the wheels fall off" approach! :)
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Missed this thread the first time around...
The biggest difference is opportunity cost (assuming positive returns on investing money saved) which most people don't factor in.
This is most certainly true, but the opportunity costs of people's time is also highly relevant. Those tradeoffs are what makes this math so complicated (and to a degree, emotional). It's really neat to see the different data points.
I'm going to add my info since I purchased new and I do almost no work myself on my car... So I think this is also an interesting anecdote to see (if one that folks around here scorn). Since there are a few different things going on here (new vs used, calculate total cost, cost/mile), I'm going to break it out a bit so folks can see different numbers.
There are a couple of instances in this thread where people have counted the entire purchase price as a cost, but are not entering the car’s current value as a credit offsetting that cost.
My car was totaled in the week this thread was originally active, so I have a very clear value to close that loop :D
$29,142 - Purchase (new/Aug 2006)
$3,229 - Maintenance (dealer through 65K miles, total up to ~115K miles, only non-base/scheduled maintenance is new rotors/brakes [a second set after what is shown below])
$2,298 - Tires (3 sets: winter + 2 all-season)
$165 - New Brakes/Grind rotors (partially subsidized by manufacturer due to wrong brakes installed on original vehicle) (2008)
$216 - Cracked fog light (2008)
$370 - Broken rim + new pair of tires (2018)
$0 - rims for winter tires: Bought in 2007, sold in 2015, $500-$500= $0.
-$6,400 - Totaled May 2019 (payment from insurance)
$5,000 - Estimated Collision/Comprehensive Insurance (dropped in 2014) [I can't pull up the early years due to change of insurance company when I moved]
$34,020 over 153 months of operation = $222/month or 29.6c/mi
Note #1: Add "any car will need this" fuel [~$10K], liability insurance [~$7K], and registration [~$1K] to get to $340/month or 45.2c/mi
Note #2: The only self-work was the fog light, because the installation cost is silly (then again, so is the part cost at $216)... everything else was done by a dealer/shop.
Note #3: Free new brakes at almost 25K miles due to manufacturer mistake probably was about ~$250 cost avoidance.
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I have to agree with zolotiyeruki, the DIY option is really optimal... While I understand the need to have a vehicle ready for use, I am also inclined to do things others (at least mustachians) might consider odd. I always have an "extra" car just in case... I have several cars but the newest one is a 2006. All paid for. All in very good serviceable condition. The extra car is for those times, I may need to have a car down for more than a few days... I'm not going to rush a repair. I'll take my time and do it right.
Even the items folks are listing here as cheap are still overpriced IMO.
Brakes should not cost $450. I can do all new brake rotors, and brake pads and new fluid for usually less than $200. I just did a mini for less than $100.
Timing belt- I was quoted $1200 from Audi dealer years ago. I purchased the parts online and used youtube DIY and completed the job faster than "book time" (this was my first attempt ever) and only spent around $300.
Folks should also consider the mark up that "reputable" mechanics are charging. My father recently went to Firestone to have them check out his 2004 Mini Cooper. It needed new outer ball joints, control arm bushings, new front struts, and front end links. The quote was around $3k.
We purchased and installed new inner and outer ball joints, front and rear struts/shocks, front and rear end links, all new brake rotors and pads, inner ball joints, control arm bushings and new power steering hoses and sway bar bushings. Cost was around $500 or so in parts. (Many of the parts Firestone quoted were over 3x's the cost of parts available online. We did more on the car than was quoted by Firestone but this service ensures many more years of good service and it was done at a fraction of what it would have cost.)
So, all of this to say, this is not rocket science. As mentioned earlier in this thread, there are tons of video's and DIY guides for nearly everything you'd want to do. Most tools are not single use items so they can be treated as investments. Shopping around for the best deal on parts is just common sense.
Being able to perform maintenance on your vehicle should be something people strive to learn. It's worth it in the long run.
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Great thread. I haven't kept a spreadsheet, but I was motivated to do some round numbers.
2003 Toyota Matrix, purchased in summer 2006 with 30,000 miles for $15,500. As of today (July 2019, 156 months later), the car has 190,000 on it, and I'll assume that the value is zero, that it has averaged 32 mpg, and that gas has averaged $3/gallon over the period I've owned it.
Costs
$15,500 purchase
$15,000 gas
$9,000 insurance
$1,000 for three sets of tires
$1,600 for 32 oil changes at $50/ea
$2,500 of miscellaneous costs to cover registration and other stuff I've forgotten like windshield wiper blades and car washes
Total: $44,600 over 156 months is $285.90 per month, and 28 cents a mile
Considering how awesomely reliable the car has been with no major repairs, $285.90/mo strikes me as a small fortune. Also, the initial purchase price has only been about 1/3 the cost of ownership.
I guess the good news is that we will hopefully keep the car going for at least another couple years, and we're now driving less than 500 miles a month since we don't commute by car. But man, even cheap cars aren't cheap.
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If you drive beaters and work on them yourself, it gets crazy cheap. I don't keep records divided up by car, and my hobby cars eat quite a bit of money, but here's a rough accounting of my daily driver for the last 5 years:
2004 Prius, bought for $4400 with 180k miles. Just sold with 250k miles for $1500, because somebody gave me a free Prius that was in better shape (after I repaired it).
Maintenance and consumables: 2 sets of (the cheapest possible) tires, 14 oil changes done by me, one coolant change, one 12v battery, one complete brake job (rotors, pads, rear drums, shoes were only $110 from Rock Auto), ~$1200 total. Nothing else.
70k miles worth of gas, swagged at 40 mpg and $2.50/gal, work out to $4375.
Insurance and registration: ~$300/yr, $1500
Total Ownership cost: $9975, of which gas was near half. $166/month, 14c/mile.
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I wonder what kind of cost per mile one could get out of those 50cc Chinese scooters that sell new for $700. I’ve not seen many last over 1500 miles, but they are also typically bought by teenagers or people with multiple DWIs (oil changes? Nope!). Perhaps with adult ownership one could get a few thousand miles out of them?
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Cool thread. I have a very basic spreadsheet of costs I started about a year ago (when I purchased two vehicles [yes, how unmustachian of me], one beater/winter, one fun car).
I've done a lot of the work myself; much of it was "elective" as I call it; not totally necessary but it was bothering me so I fixed it. Things like fender, headlight housings, wiper arms, etc.
Cars are definitely not cheap. Even for "cheap" cars. Even for cars that don't depreciate much or have already lost most of their value, like mine (a part of the cost that many people forget to add).
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Shoot, I've got all y'all beat. I have a car in the garage that hasn't cost me a thing in years. Of course I don't insure it, haven't registered it in years, don't start or drive it (engine is in pieces), don't wash it, and haven't purchased parts for it in some time....
I agree - DIY is the cheapest way to own a car if you know when to give in on the DIY repairs. I've stubbornly done a few tasks that in hindsight would have been quicker done with a lift which I don't have. In more recent years I hire out occasional tasks. Plus, a person needs a driveway and/or garage to DIY repairs. I would never want to live some place where I didn't have a garage again.
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2014 F150 - Bought new in Oct 2014, ~44000 miles
$33000 - Initial purchase
$6875 - Fuel
$3000 - Insurance
$1500 - Registration/Taxes
$500 - Maintenance
($20K) Residual Value
$24875/62 = $401/month
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Okay, I'll bite. It's no secret I have a few special-purpose vehicles around. But the daily-driver is a 1988 Oldsmobile I bought in Nov 2014 that needed a little bit of work. The rear brake line was leaking and it had a check engine light which helped to negotiate down the price. But it was a rare enough model I decided I'd bite. Plus these cars are pretty much bullet-proof.
Purchase price: $800
Tax & Title: $60
Brake lines/fittings: $19.95 [1 hr job]
4 New Tires/new lug nuts: $436.60
Battery: $75
Fog Lt Bulbs: $8.99
Prev Maintenance (& resolve Chk Eng Lt)- Timing set, cam magnet/sensor, rad hoses: $107.11 [Weekend Job]
Brake Pads: $12.98 [30 min job]
Misc: $34.10
Steering Wheel Leather wrap+shipping: $394.68
Oil Changes: 4x $5 = $20
---->Running/Driving/Reliable Vehicle Total: $1970.07
Insurance: Avg $100/6 months.
Tags: $55/year
Fuel: Avg $60/mo
---->Annual Expenses: $975
/12 = $81.25 Monthly
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My first car was a mid-90s Accord. It had issues, not deal-breaker issues, but lots of little issues that added up. I was young, dumb, and knew nothing about cars, so I also got screwed by several auto shops. Ignorance is expensive. I'm pretty sure my $3,000 purchase turned into $8,000 over the next 5 years (I added it all up, not counting gas and oil changes). But I guess I had the grit to hunker down and learn. With what I know now, I could probably have told you what was wrong with that car and done almost all of the repairs myself, but I guess I had to learn on some car first. Ironically, now on my second car, a mid-00s Camry, I've hardly had any issues :-D But I consider myself relatively prepared for most common repair items and then some.
Honestly, doing the work yourself saves time, too. Tie rods starting to creak? Takes me a few hours to put the car up on jack stands, change those out, and adjust the front-end toe well enough to buy me some time before taking it in for an alignment. No scheduling drop off and pick up, just pure garage time. I like it that way. However, I don't think I will ever change an engine pan gasket again. 16 bolts on your back, just to find it leaking again 3 months later is hell. Forget that crap, I'll just pay the $300 :)
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I am coming up on 1 year of ownership for my latest car so its a good time to go through this.
2012 Mazda 5 (paid off)
Purchased for $7000 @ 69,000 miles
PLPD insurance $674/yr
AC repair $110
2 Oil changes $92 (I paid a shop once out of laziness)
Gas $1400 (25 mpg average)
Residual Value today at 82,000 miles
$6,000
Total cost per month
$264
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Really cool thread! It was interesting to see that the OP's Mazda3 needed repairs around the same time our 2007 Mazda5 needed them. I'll try to compile a similar spreadsheet, although my records are far from perfect and it's hard to figure out what part of total insurance bill a particular car was which year.
Second zolotiyeruki on DYI repairs. Although I tend to check repair manual first, if nothing else for torque values.
Also, second MilesTeg on non-critical parts. Dealing with sliding door problems in Toyota Sienna was a major PITA. As many other things in both minivans - things tightly packed under the hood and not as easily accessible as in sedans.
Update: Mazda5, bought new in 2007, with gas estimated based on mileage (93K) and fuel economy, and insurance a multiple of the car's current share: $44.6K spent total, or $309 per month.
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Just chiming in here regarding savings on the labor vs parts.
Had a expense come up *moms car crapped out and being the oldest/her not having anything really- I chose to purchase her one.
As such I've been on a shoestring budget trying to cut costs everywhere possible to cover the 7k I spent on her vehicle.
Part of that has been my car ($3000 honda fit 2008) maintanance.
This past weekend at 112k miles and grinding noises - I decided to DIY my own brakes/rotors/spark plugs.
Total cost of parts for brakes: $65 vs quote $250
Total cost of spark plugs: $40 vs quote $120
Extra tools (will be used in the future so didn't mind): $40.
Total "saved": $225 (double the price of the parts alone)
All in all I ran into some adversary breaking bolts loose (pb blaster, torch etc on a michigan car) but learned a lot and the feeling of accomplishment/saving was awesome. I feel more than confident to try some other stuff/re do these again.
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Total "saved": $225 (double the price of the parts alone)
All in all I ran into some adversary breaking bolts loose (pb blaster, torch etc on a michigan car) but learned a lot and the feeling of accomplishment/saving was awesome. I feel more than confident to try some other stuff/re do these again.
You sound a lot like me 10 years ago. The fun part is when you start calculating your hourly rate. Let's say it took you four hours, so $55/hour. Except that's your savings after taxes, so add back in state taxes (maybe 5%?) federal taxes (12%) and FICA (7.5%), and it's more like $70/hour. And as you do more of your own repairs and get better/faster at it, that number only goes up!
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Just chiming in here regarding savings on the labor vs parts.
Had a expense come up *moms car crapped out and being the oldest/her not having anything really- I chose to purchase her one.
As such I've been on a shoestring budget trying to cut costs everywhere possible to cover the 7k I spent on her vehicle.
Part of that has been my car ($3000 honda fit 2008) maintanance.
This past weekend at 112k miles and grinding noises - I decided to DIY my own brakes/rotors/spark plugs.
Total cost of parts for brakes: $65 vs quote $250
Total cost of spark plugs: $40 vs quote $120
Extra tools (will be used in the future so didn't mind): $40.
Total "saved": $225 (double the price of the parts alone)
All in all I ran into some adversary breaking bolts loose (pb blaster, torch etc on a michigan car) but learned a lot and the feeling of accomplishment/saving was awesome. I feel more than confident to try some other stuff/re do these again.
Great job! Well done on persevering with those bolts :)
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Thanks!
The next "service" is a bit more involed in terms of valve adjustment. I'm thinking I only need around 2 more tools. After the quote of $400-even if it takes me 4 hours i'm 100/hr which is well above what my time is worth!
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Following up to say I am ditching the Mazda3 and purchasing a 2016 Honda Civic for $17.3k
I'm hoping I have a better run with this car.
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I ended up donating the '04 Grand Cherokee in November. It spent most of its life in Michigan and Wisconsin, so it was rotting away underneath, poor thing. Gas tank was literally about to fall out as the metal skid plate holding it in was basically gone. It otherwise ran fine, just the steady stream of little things that I was able to fix.
Picked up a (loaded!) 2011 Mariner (Ford Escape sibling) in December for about $7k for winter vehicle duty. These tend to rust near the rear shock mounts and quarter panels, but this one is very clean with almost no rust. It's been great so far! It was clearly well maintained.
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I did a quick cost of ownership calc a couple months back on the truck I got rid of in October.
Since figures were done recently and I didn't have records easily at hand I did the repair costs by memory as best I could. I didn't do any of my own work on it; liability reasons and I also didn't usually have the time, or knowledge.
All your lower figures on cars made me jealous so I thought I'd share. One huge caveat, this is my work truck and it almost never went without a 24ft 10k trailer behind it. I also included fuel, insurance, and registration. It was quite an eye-opener for me.
$15k+/year to keep it running. Not that it's an optional expense; driving it is quite literally my job. The truck grossed nearly $1.5m in revenue in the 10 years so it paid for itself regardless. It's too bad that gross was nowhere near the net :( ...I'd be FIREd by now.
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Mini cooper. Reliable/affordable to fix. Pick one. My gf had one. Wanna talk engineering nightmares?
No joke. There's a reason "German engineering" has a reputation! Like needing to remove the bumper in order to replace a headlight bulb. (https://www.wisebread.com/to-change-the-bulb-just-remove-the-bumper-wait-what) :D
easy...I have an air cooled VW for the last 15 years...I can do all the maintenance with a 10mm wrench and drop an engine with 4 bolts; haha!
yes, I've over simplified this...but the german engineering is spectacular when things were much simpler; seriously who would have thought to "power" windshield wiper squirters with the spare tire?!?! brilliant
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I could remove the engine in my Beetle in ~20 minutes back in the day.
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Subaru has been plagued with oil consumption and head gasket troubles...odd choice if long-term trouble-free ownership was the goal.
Head gasket issues were mainly with N/A EJ engines, which currently no Subaru uses. The STi uses a turbo EJ25. But MLS head gaskets fixed these issues somewhere around 10 years ago.
We know about the oil burning in the FA and FB engines and this was subject to a recall from the class action suit and extension of the engine warranty. I had one replaced in a Crosstrek at 94k miles. When you get right down to it, however, the amount of oil use really wasn't over the top, in my opinion. Had they not replaced it, I'd have had to add one quart during the 5k mile oil change interval I used.
Surprised you didn't mention the CVT transmission. That also was a problem in the first generation CVT. These were all upgraded and replacement was free. We had our Crosstrek tranny replaced at 53k miles. The car is currently at 103k miles and shows no signs of problems.....although even when the last one failed, it drove fine. Just a Christmas tree of lights on the dash.
All Subarus (besides the STi) are now using a direct injection F series engine. This is a complete new design from the previous port injected cars. We have one of these too (19 Crosstrek with a manual) and it has more power and torque. The numbers don't show any huge increase, but the flatter torque curve feels far more powerful. I also compare my mom's 18 Legacy (direct injected) vs my wife's 17 Legacy and the 18 also shows significantly more usable power. I spent some quality time driving the 18 from Mass to Florida, so got to get pretty used to it.
Anyways......after all that......I just wanted to add that being a do it yourselfer saves a boat ton of money. I do all my own work unless it's something I don't have the tools for or I'm unsure how to fix something. I can't even count the number of times I've fixed something and thought about how much a "real" mechanic would charge. I guess the most recent was an ABS sensor that was not reporting. I did buy a J Scan and OBD bluetooth interfact for about $50 total, so the repair wasn't free. But using these, I identified the left front sensor not reporting, pulled it. It was all covered with crap. I cleaned it and cleaned as best I could the ring. Put it together without tightening and spun the hub. Success. All back together and no more CEL. I'm sure a mechanic would have charged at least $300 for that.
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I could remove the engine in my Beetle in ~20 minutes back in the day.
They sure don't make 'em like they used to. How about a belt change in five seconds? (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BQhfcdQf1QA)
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I could remove the engine in my Beetle in ~20 minutes back in the day.
They sure don't make 'em like they used to. How about a belt change in five seconds? (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BQhfcdQf1QA)
My dad is restoring a 60s Beetle, and just raves at the ease and simplicity of those things.
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Great thread! Here's my anecdata for an '05 Toyota Corolla with 174k, the last 26,286 I've put on since buying. Major maintenance items include back brakes serviced professionally ($430) and having a wheel bearing replaced ($391). Insurance is about $750 year where I live. I've moved much more towards DIY maintenance over the two years and dodged at least one more expensive repair to my exhaust. I paid $4,042 including tax and registration for the car two years ago.
Total cost of car, insurance, taxes & maintenance
6,812.33
Miles
26286
Estimated market value remaining
2500
Estimated Fuel cost assuming actual mpg and $3/gallon gas
2,634.20
Cost of ownership per mile driven (cents)
26.43
Total Expended
6,946.53
Per Month
286.30
Here are similar figures for an '06 Sienna with 180k. Here I've completed all maintenance myself, but costs are a lot higher. We've only owned the van for 7 months so I expect these per mile/month costs will go down over time and future trouble-free operation. Major items included a timing belt and water pump for 510 (this price includes 200 in parts/fluids and 300 more in tools that I get to keep for free!) and a new passenger side CV axle for 140. Similar insurance costs of $700/year.
Total cost of car, insurance, taxes & maintenance
5,691.79
Miles
4263
Estimated market value
3400
Estimated Fuel cost assuming actual mpg and $3/gallon gas
622.83
Cost of ownership per mile driven (cents)
68.37
Total Expended
2,914.62
Per Month
380.48
Overall I am surprised at my similar costs relative to @Systems101 with a brand new car even over 13 years.
My car was totaled in the week this thread was originally active, so I have a very clear value to close that loop :D
$29,142 - Purchase (new/Aug 2006)
$3,229 - Maintenance (dealer through 65K miles, total up to ~115K miles, only non-base/scheduled maintenance is new rotors/brakes [a second set after what is shown below])
$2,298 - Tires (3 sets: winter + 2 all-season)
$165 - New Brakes/Grind rotors (partially subsidized by manufacturer due to wrong brakes installed on original vehicle) (2008)
$216 - Cracked fog light (2008)
$370 - Broken rim + new pair of tires (2018)
$0 - rims for winter tires: Bought in 2007, sold in 2015, $500-$500= $0.
-$6,400 - Totaled May 2019 (payment from insurance)
$5,000 - Estimated Collision/Comprehensive Insurance (dropped in 2014) [I can't pull up the early years due to change of insurance company when I moved]
$34,020 over 153 months of operation = $222/month or 29.6c/mi
Oh wait, now I see @Systems101 did not include fuel, insurance or registration. Now I feel better. I thought I was driving a junker for nothing there for a little while.
Note #1: Add "any car will need this" fuel [~$10K], liability insurance [~$7K], and registration [~$1K] to get to $340/month or 45.2c/mi
What kind of car is that, Systems?