Author Topic: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!  (Read 9170 times)

Freedom2016

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I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« on: May 24, 2013, 02:49:09 PM »
I'll try to make a long story short. Back in January, I listed my MINI Cooper on Craigslist and a guy came by to test drive it - he was thinking of buying it for his son. He liked it enough that he wanted to have his mechanic check it out the next day; we let him take the car. Lo and behold, he had an accident on the way to his mechanic that caused $1000 of damage to my car. The other driver's insurance ponied up 50% but we eventually had to sue our guy to recover the remaining 50% ($500) in damages.

The good news is that we won our case. The bad news? As of yesterday he still hadn't paid up, so we returned to court to find out why and, if necessary, issue a civil warrant for his arrest. (I was kind of hoping it would go that direction, because that would be kind of badass, plus I would feel *very* vindicated.)

In my head I had prepared my rebuttal to whatever lame excuses he was going to offer for his non-payment. First of all, he drove a huge Cadillac SUV to our house. Secondly, he is gainfully employed (as a lawyer, it turns out!). Thirdly, he was prepared to drop $4500 on our car a few months ago. How can he not afford to pay a $500 claim?

Here's how: he applied for bankruptcy last month! He had to provide his bankruptcy filing to prove it, so I have a copy in hand. Get this: we are one of FORTY-NINE creditors that he owes money to, and the total amount he owes is almost $265,000. Over a quarter million dollars, you guys!!!! And there's no mortgage in there. Here's a sampling of whom he and his wife owe: Macy's, Home Depot, TJMaxx, Kohl's, Lowes, Best Buy, J Crew, Bank of America, Sallie Mae, TMobile, Staples, Planet Fitness, Victoria's Secret, plus he owes over $20k in back taxes, and it looks like there are two outstanding car loans.
 
I am completely flabbergasted that anyone could dig themselves into such a deep hole. If ever there was a poster child for anti-mustachianism, this guy is it. It's unreal.

So, yeah. We're never gonna get that $500 back. Oh well, though - we won the moral victory, plus I'm going to keep his bankruptcy filing and show it to my son when he's older, as a cautionary tale.

Rebecca Stapler

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2013, 02:58:42 PM »
Aside from the debt discharged in bankruptcy, I'm amazed that your state allows people to be arrested for a $500 debt. Is that actually on the books or were you just being hopeful? Arresting someone isn't going to get your $$ back.

arebelspy

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2013, 02:58:54 PM »
Yikes, that's gotta be really frustrating.

Doing everything right, and have someone who does it wrong cause you a financial setback.

Thanks for sharing, he definitely wins the "AntiMustachian of the Day Award."
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KidneyBeansMD

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2013, 03:10:19 PM »
Wonder what his credit scores are :P

FlorenceMcGillicutty

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2013, 03:15:28 PM »
What a douche. I'm sorry you're out 500 bucks. That sucks. I'm not anti-bankruptcy, but if I were able to grant people the right to declare it, this guy would be denied for sure.

Freedom2016

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2013, 03:16:23 PM »
Aside from the debt discharged in bankruptcy, I'm amazed that your state allows people to be arrested for a $500 debt. Is that actually on the books or were you just being hopeful? Arresting someone isn't going to get your $$ back.

From the judgment notice we received: "If the Judgment Debtor has not paid the judgment in full, or the parties have not otherwise settled the case, then both parties must appear at the payment review hearing. If the Judgment Debtor fails to appear, the Court may issue a civil arrest warrant (capias) for his or her arrest."

For me, this case was always much more about the principle of the matter than it was the cash. The guy was a douche and took no responsibility for crashing our car. We were more than fair to him and gave him every chance to prove he wasn't at fault, and he couldn't. He then refused, point blank, to pay us the damages. I was happy that the magistrate agreed that he was responsible; for me him getting arrested would have been just a sweet symbolic gesture to hammer home even further the message that he was in the wrong.


footenote

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2013, 03:27:31 PM »
course11 - What an awful experience. I love the idea of you keeping the filing as a lesson for your son in the future.

I worked in collections for years (GE Credit when GE operated the Macy's private label card). It seemed many attorneys were deeply in debt and many went banko. It seemed to be a disproportionate number (although I suppose that could have been explained by Macy's attracting higher-earning consumers than a JC Penney).

Anyone else notice a lot of anti-Mustachian attorneys? (I'm not a lawyer-basher btw: there are too many in my family to get away with that. Although I do know a lot of lawyer jokes!)

Jamesqf

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2013, 03:56:31 PM »
...I'm amazed that your state allows people to be arrested for a $500 debt.

IANAL, but I would guess that it's not about the amount of money, it's about ignoring a court judgement.

Rebecca Stapler

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2013, 04:05:55 PM »
Aside from the debt discharged in bankruptcy, I'm amazed that your state allows people to be arrested for a $500 debt. Is that actually on the books or were you just being hopeful? Arresting someone isn't going to get your $$ back.

From the judgment notice we received: "If the Judgment Debtor has not paid the judgment in full, or the parties have not otherwise settled the case, then both parties must appear at the payment review hearing. If the Judgment Debtor fails to appear, the Court may issue a civil arrest warrant (capias) for his or her arrest."

For me, this case was always much more about the principle of the matter than it was the cash. The guy was a douche and took no responsibility for crashing our car. We were more than fair to him and gave him every chance to prove he wasn't at fault, and he couldn't. He then refused, point blank, to pay us the damages. I was happy that the magistrate agreed that he was responsible; for me him getting arrested would have been just a sweet symbolic gesture to hammer home even further the message that he was in the wrong.

Thanks for explaining. I'm glad to see that someone can't be arrested just for being a douche, but for failing to appear.

As to the un-MMM lawyers, a friend of mine who was paid well as an attorney was also miserable, and said that she used her paycheck to "buy her own love" with expensive clothes, dinners out (when she wasn't at the office), etc. Lawyers also tend to be competitive, so I think the "keeping up with the Joneses" attitude can permeate. On the flip side, these days a lot of lawyers have to take on a shitton of debt just to practice -- but that's not consumer debt like this guy. At least the SL debt *might* pay off eventually.

Johnny Aloha

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2013, 04:06:53 PM »
Wow!

Losing $500 sucks, but at least it's not more.


stinkindog

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2013, 07:54:41 PM »
 Why in the hell would you let someone drive off in your car??? You are freaking lucky that you ever saw him and the car again! $500 is indeed a pricey lesson.

Freedom2016

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2013, 07:57:44 PM »
Why in the hell would you let someone drive off in your car??? You are freaking lucky that you ever saw him and the car again! $500 is indeed a pricey lesson.

I had him give me the keys to his Cadillac SUV as collateral.

madage

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2013, 08:13:44 PM »
Why in the hell would you let someone drive off in your car??? You are freaking lucky that you ever saw him and the car again! $500 is indeed a pricey lesson.

I had him give me the keys to his Cadillac SUV as collateral.

So, how much did you get for it? :-)

N

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2013, 11:54:28 PM »
our upstairs neighbor filed for bankruptcy and Im on the condo board so I saw his court papers, he had over 600K Discharged. he ultimately lost his condo to foreclosure, and shockingly just paid up all his overdue assessments, 8k. I was SURE we would never see that money (the association). but, 600K!!! our association lawyer was flabbergasted.

gooki

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2013, 12:15:48 AM »
How can they not repay the $265,000. By the sounds of it he is employed and his wife would be employable too.

Bigote

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2013, 03:57:00 AM »
He probably has other debt that he reaffirmed or can't discharge.  Like mortgage and student loans.  They may have kept a leased car or two as well. 

destron

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2013, 08:14:25 AM »
Sounds like he was trying to purchase as much stuff as he could knowing full well that he would file for bankruptcy later. What an immoral piece of garbage.

milla

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2013, 01:07:40 PM »
Every time my mom comes to visit me she gets together with one of her friends.. Last year the friend was sobbing to her because they'd added up all their debt and it was 1.2M!! She kept crying and saying they will never make that much in a lifetime, how on Earth did this happen... etc.
This year my mom was picked up in a new SUV and they have a bigger house. My mom says "So glad you're doing much better financially" Yeah, complete silence. They are now 1.5M in debt. From cars and trips and crazy weddings for their two daugthers. The plan is to declare bankruptcy so they "might as well" get an SUV and bigger house now..

Two9A

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2013, 02:55:19 PM »
Yeah, $265k is a good bit of debt, but it's not the worst I've seen.

I'm on the hook for a $340k mortgage, for example, and that's after paying it down aggressively from 400k.

Mustachian, probably not; I'm not filing for bankruptcy though, so the intent's there.

Freedom2016

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2013, 02:59:44 PM »
Yeah, $265k is a good bit of debt, but it's not the worst I've seen.

I'm on the hook for a $340k mortgage, for example, and that's after paying it down aggressively from 400k.

Mustachian, probably not; I'm not filing for bankruptcy though, so the intent's there.

I consider mortgage debt to be of a different ilk than debt from an out of control consumer spending binge like this guy has been on.

mikefixac

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2013, 11:21:29 PM »
When in Vegas, I like to walk around the casinos and see what is the minimum bet at the tables. Usually it's $5, but can go as high as $25. That's for only one small minimum bet.

It amazes me that people can so easily sit at this tables and gamble money in which the odds are against them, all the while I figure they most likely have personal debt.


Sparky

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2013, 08:40:06 AM »
Lo and behold, he had an accident on the way to his mechanic that caused $1000 of damage to my car. 

I've noticed in my life there is a trend of people who are in the red and are poor drivers. These people can't seem to make smart decisions.

Starstuff

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Re: I've never seen anyone THIS much in debt!
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2013, 10:28:08 AM »
Yeah, $265k is a good bit of debt, but it's not the worst I've seen.

I'm on the hook for a $340k mortgage, for example, and that's after paying it down aggressively from 400k.

Mustachian, probably not; I'm not filing for bankruptcy though, so the intent's there.

I consider mortgage debt to be of a different ilk than debt from an out of control consumer spending binge like this guy has been on.

I don't. There is responsible mortgage debt-- freeing up cash for investments while buying a house well within your price range. Then there is irresponsible mortgage debt-- buying the biggest house you can possibly afford payments on. I know people with $1,000,000 mortgages. Or multiple mortgages totaling more than that. Buying a million dollar house on credit just because you can work 50 hours a week to make the payments qualifies as an out of control consumer spending binge. Sounds like your guy was way more of the latter mortgagee than the former.