Author Topic: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why  (Read 33168 times)

exterous

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I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« on: March 30, 2017, 08:49:14 PM »
Today is a very sad day. I knew it was coming. I could see it and have been dreading this day for months. You see it all started 8 years ago when the company I worked for went out of business. Well one day the owner opened the janitor's closet and told the small, remaining group of us to take what we wanted. None of my other soon to be ex-coworkers seemed to be interested in much of what was in there but I grabbed a fair bit of odds and ends. The real prize ended up being the 4 large boxes of trash bags. At the time I had no idea how many they held. Well, they held 8 years worth.

And now they are all gone. I have to go out and buy trash bags and it makes me sad. And bewildered. I have sat content in my cocoon of ignorance surrounding the myriad of expensive flex force, multi pull string, scented bags and now have to figure out where on the line between 'ultra cheap but rips if you drop your helium filled balloons in the bag' and 'carbon nanotube reinforced, bluetooth enabled, mint scented trash citadels' I'll be happy.

I tried to explain my despair at having to spend money on something new to my friends but they didn't seem to get it.

Maybe if I curl up into the fetal position and surround myself with my remaining free items (shop-vac, work bench vice, 20lbs ABC fire extinguisher, a box of pens, 1 stapler and 7500 staples) I'll find some comfort

Step37

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2017, 09:01:11 PM »
This is hilarious! The closest I have is when we finally go through all of the frozen fruit that we pick in the summer and fall (cherries, raspberries, saskatoons, etc.). What do you mean I have to PAY for frozen fruit! My goal is to make it full circle and we seem to be getting closer every year.

I also recently inherited copious amounts of gift wrap when we moved my grandmother to a smaller place. I don't think I give enough gifts to go through it in my lifetime! Perhaps I will have to find a local Buy Nothing group or something. I'll feel like quite a chump if I EVER pay for gift wrap again, though, believe me.


MonkeyJenga

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2017, 09:05:15 PM »
I'm sorry for your loss.

I suggest not curling up directly on top of the staples.

My trash can is now officially renamed a mint-scented trash citadel.

letired

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2017, 09:09:24 PM »
Trash bags are the worst! I used to use the free plastic grocery bags, but a few years ago my town outlawed them. Paying for something whose literal job is to be thrown away is brutal.

I do have to congratulate you on making the freebies last for 8 years! Truly impressive!

BFGirl

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2017, 09:19:10 PM »
Love it!  I had gotten a lot of free samples of Tylenol and was very sad when I actually had to start paying for it.

Zikoris

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2017, 09:22:06 PM »
I feel your pain! I went through something similar a few weeks ago - I finally finished a nearly-six-year-old box of laundry soap. It was so weird buying laundry soap again. I had no idea what kind to get.

And now I have to plan in terms of retirement date. So I can't get another six year box, because I plan to retire in five and hate waste. And that mindset is starting to spread to other things. Normal couples do not try to project how many thousand muffin liners they should buy to get as close as possible to The Day, but not go over. It's like blackjack.

sparkytheop

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2017, 09:32:45 PM »
I got a lifetime supply of business sized envelopes at my last job.  I think it's a box of 1000.  I've used a few so far.  I hope to never buy a letter or business sized envelope again.

I also have a box of printer paper that was given to me, so I aim to never buy that again either.

I know of one guy who got the Costco roll of plastic wrap in the divorce.  I believe it was about 10 years after the divorce that he used it up and felt like all ties were finally cut, lol.

Dollar Slice

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2017, 09:34:25 PM »
I feel your pain! I went through something similar a few weeks ago - I finally finished a nearly-six-year-old box of laundry soap. It was so weird buying laundry soap again. I had no idea what kind to get.

And now I have to plan in terms of retirement date. So I can't get another six year box, because I plan to retire in five and hate waste.

...are you planning to stop washing your clothes when you retire?

Zikoris

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2017, 09:38:38 PM »
I feel your pain! I went through something similar a few weeks ago - I finally finished a nearly-six-year-old box of laundry soap. It was so weird buying laundry soap again. I had no idea what kind to get.

And now I have to plan in terms of retirement date. So I can't get another six year box, because I plan to retire in five and hate waste.

...are you planning to stop washing your clothes when you retire?

We're planning on heading overseas for long term travel, and I'm sure as hell not lugging 20lbs of Tide in my carry-on backpack.

Dicey

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2017, 09:41:12 PM »
Best source is Costco bags purchased at Estate Sales. Distant second, but still ahead of anywhere else, is Costco bags purchased at Costco. They mightn't last eight years, but you could probably make that twin pack last a very long time. They even go on sale periodically.

I am sorry for your loss and hope you have many hermetically sealed memories to comfort you in your time of grief.

Dollar Slice

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2017, 09:51:15 PM »
I feel your pain! I went through something similar a few weeks ago - I finally finished a nearly-six-year-old box of laundry soap. It was so weird buying laundry soap again. I had no idea what kind to get.

And now I have to plan in terms of retirement date. So I can't get another six year box, because I plan to retire in five and hate waste.

...are you planning to stop washing your clothes when you retire?

We're planning on heading overseas for long term travel, and I'm sure as hell not lugging 20lbs of Tide in my carry-on backpack.

Whew. Just checking ;-)  Some people take frugality past the point of no return...

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2017, 01:18:34 AM »
I feel your pain! I went through something similar a few weeks ago - I finally finished a nearly-six-year-old box of laundry soap. It was so weird buying laundry soap again. I had no idea what kind to get.

And now I have to plan in terms of retirement date. So I can't get another six year box, because I plan to retire in five and hate waste.

...are you planning to stop washing your clothes when you retire?

Thank you for asking this! That was my question, too!

marty998 directed me to this thread and I got to that post and immediately texted him "... they're not planning to use laundry soap in retirement???"

Should have kept scrolling.

On topic, my dad is like this with industrial sized boxes of foam ear plugs. Ends up with a lifetime supply after various engineering projects are finished. I always snaffle a few pairs for flights, motorsport, etc.

Miss Prim

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2017, 01:25:51 AM »
This whole thread makes me laugh!  My husband was downsized from airline catering years ago and came home with two great big boxes of plastic utensils all individually wrapped in sets.  Needless to say, we are still using them at our lake cottage over 20 years later and bring them out for every family function we have out there and they are numerous.  The day we have to start buying plastic utensils is the day we will probably both actually cry!

                                                        Miss Prim

JG in Hangzhou

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2017, 01:30:57 AM »
Hmm reminds me of the day I had to throw out my Navy Issue steel toed black shoes. 
I wore them every workday for about ten years.
 My Dad took my black and khaki belts and still uses them. 

Linea_Norway

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2017, 04:04:28 AM »
I have been using foldable cloth bags that I keep in my handbag to do the grocery shopping. Or occasionally a shopping crate. And I've been doing that very consequently lately. So now I'm running out of plastic grocery bags that I also use as trash bags. I'll have to shop sometime soon, too. The positive side is that I can buy plastic bags that are much thinner than the usual grocery store bags and that less plastic is wasted.

MandalayVA

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2017, 04:12:32 AM »
Mint Scented Trash Citadels will be the name of my lower mid-tier prog metal band.  :D

Laura33

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2017, 06:25:09 AM »
'carbon nanotube reinforced, bluetooth enabled, mint scented trash citadels'

Awesome.

teen persuasion

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2017, 06:32:23 AM »
Trash bags are the worst! I used to use the free plastic grocery bags, but a few years ago my town outlawed them. Paying for something whose literal job is to be thrown away is brutal.

I do have to congratulate you on making the freebies last for 8 years! Truly impressive!

Love this thread!

Years ago, my DH worked for a printer.  One long term job was printing boxes for garbage bags.  It seriously drove him crazy that he was making something whose only purpose was to be thrown away!  He was literally manufacturing garbage!

Capt j-rod

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2017, 06:50:02 AM »
My buddy works at the kitty litter plant. I haven't bought Andy in 5 years. I ran out once and had to go buy some... I figured no big deal... I about flipped. Needless to say I had him lay in some more dented boxes. My friends all make fun of me. We will see who laughs when they are 67 years old and still working to buy more fancy trinkets! Sorry to hear about your loss!

Vindicated

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2017, 06:53:39 AM »
Maybe if I curl up into the fetal position and surround myself with my remaining free items (shop-vac, work bench vice, 20lbs ABC fire extinguisher, a box of pens, 1 stapler and 7500 staples) I'll find some comfort

Great post, and great haul!

You may want to check the fire extinguisher's age.  Depending on the type, they're good for 5-15 years.

LadyMuMu

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2017, 06:55:31 AM »
For me it was wax paper. Before my grandmother passed away, her short term memory was beginning to go. For some reason she had about 10 rolls of wax paper in her kitchen when she downsized to the retirement home. I got them along with her vacuum and a huge stash of vacuum bags. Last Christmas (6+ years later) I finally went through the last roll of wax paper. Still going strong with the stash of vacuum bags though.

Wimsey1923

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2017, 07:27:20 AM »
Somehow this reminds me of the story about a Swedish police station ordering some toilet paper back in the 70's. Instead of ordering X number of rolls, they mistakenly ordered X number of pallets. The supply lasted 34 years.

radram

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2017, 07:48:37 AM »
Great post.

I used to work at a sausage company. One time for Christmas, the purchasing manager wanted to make gifts for her underlings. She wanted to make spiced cider sachets, so she asked her spice supplier for 100 cinnamon sticks, so she could make about 30 sachets.

What arrived was 100... POUNDS. Do you have any idea how light cinnamon sticks are? She buys spices by the ton, so it made perfect sense to the supplier.  For some reason, she choose to keep them instead of returning them, and invited everyone to come and take whatever they wanted. I grabbed the equivalent of a full plastic grocery bag full of them. They still have flavor, even if they are not as strong as they used to be.

I still have a few, and I am committed to contacting her when I use my last one so I can thank her again. I left in 1999 :)

Dollar Slice

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2017, 08:05:04 AM »
On topic, my dad is like this with industrial sized boxes of foam ear plugs. Ends up with a lifetime supply after various engineering projects are finished. I always snaffle a few pairs for flights, motorsport, etc.

I buy them in bulk because I sleep in them. They're so cheap that I've gotten in the habit of keeping a handful in my bag, and I give them away at concerts when it's loud and someone didn't think to bring earplugs. Good karma for ten cents. This week I gave some to a seven-year-old girl with a stupid and irresponsible parent.

Blindsquirrel

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2017, 08:10:25 AM »
   I did laugh out loud at this. Ha!

ketchup

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2017, 08:17:01 AM »
You may want to check the fire extinguisher's age.  Depending on the type, they're good for 5-15 years.
Is that definitely the case? I have two fire extinguishers from my parents that I think are from the mid-90s. (I also have an additional one I bought last year.)  Is there a way to test them?

Gunny

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2017, 08:17:45 AM »
Thanks to my last job, which turned out to be my last job, I will never, ever, ever, for eternity, run out of paper clips.

stashgrower

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2017, 08:27:17 AM »
Sympathy from another Mustachian!!

I've never bought a trash bag. I minimise waste to reduce my need for them.

Vindicated

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2017, 08:33:06 AM »
You may want to check the fire extinguisher's age.  Depending on the type, they're good for 5-15 years.
Is that definitely the case? I have two fire extinguishers from my parents that I think are from the mid-90s. (I also have an additional one I bought last year.)  Is there a way to test them?

I recommend googling the exact model you have.  I'm not an expert, I just know they expire.

ketchup

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2017, 08:44:27 AM »
You may want to check the fire extinguisher's age.  Depending on the type, they're good for 5-15 years.
Is that definitely the case? I have two fire extinguishers from my parents that I think are from the mid-90s. (I also have an additional one I bought last year.)  Is there a way to test them?

I recommend googling the exact model you have.  I'm not an expert, I just know they expire.
Thanks, I'll look into it.

MightyAl

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2017, 08:51:32 AM »
I have been using foldable cloth bags that I keep in my handbag to do the grocery shopping. Or occasionally a shopping crate. And I've been doing that very consequently lately. So now I'm running out of plastic grocery bags that I also use as trash bags. I'll have to shop sometime soon, too. The positive side is that I can buy plastic bags that are much thinner than the usual grocery store bags and that less plastic is wasted.

I make plastic grocery bags and unless Europe is different you will be hard pressed to find anything with less material or more recycled product.  The bags that are sold to consumers is much heavier in plastic bag terms. 

gardeningandgreen

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2017, 09:00:50 AM »
I feel your pain. The town I live in is talking about banning plastic grocery bags. My husband and I have literally never bought bags for our garbage since we moved in together... I absolutely am happy to help the environment because I know most people don't reuse the plastic bags but it will make me sad to have to actually buy bags for my garbage or figure something else out!

NinjaSalad

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2017, 09:22:52 AM »
I feel your pain - I had an endless supply of toilet paper at my previous employer.

As for trash bags, I reuse empty dog food bags when I can.

I also buy them at the dollar store - they don't sell them in large quantities (rolls of 15-20 bags I think) and they are kinda flimsy. But we don't generate much trash (maybe 1-2 bags a month) so it works for us.

Laurenji

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2017, 09:42:37 AM »
When we moved into our current apartment 4 years ago, we bought a giant double-bottle pack of refill hand soap from Costco. I've been refilling my foaming hand soap  dispensers with it ever since - and it still hasn't run out. It's going to be weird once it's actually all gone.


exterous

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2017, 10:00:17 AM »
I'm sorry for your loss.

I suggest not curling up directly on top of the staples.

My trash can is now officially renamed a mint-scented trash citadel.

Good point about the staples. While this has been a trying time in my life I think running out of staples would be worse since it should be a lifetime supply. Given our current usage rate of 4 staples per year I'm looking forward to leaving everyone staples as part of their inheritance

Maybe if I curl up into the fetal position and surround myself with my remaining free items (shop-vac, work bench vice, 20lbs ABC fire extinguisher, a box of pens, 1 stapler and 7500 staples) I'll find some comfort

Great post, and great haul!

You may want to check the fire extinguisher's age.  Depending on the type, they're good for 5-15 years.

Thanks for the heads up. I got it checked out a few years ago but should probably do so again (the nearby FD department will look them over for free)

acroy

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2017, 10:01:32 AM »
Hahaha, great post,

Kids & I were recently on a walk,
and a HUUUGE box of heavy duty 40gal trash bags literally bounced out of a passing lawn care truck.
I'm still 'vibrating with pleasure!' haha!

Tris Prior

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2017, 10:37:13 AM »
This is hilarious! The closest I have is when we finally go through all of the frozen fruit that we pick in the summer and fall (cherries, raspberries, saskatoons, etc.). What do you mean I have to PAY for frozen fruit! My goal is to make it full circle and we seem to be getting closer every year.


Haha! I hear this. Just finished off the last of the frozen raspberries from last summer. My big one is canned tomatoes from the garden. Made it to early February this year before we finished all of those jars off!

ketchup

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2017, 10:37:58 AM »
Hahaha, great post,

Kids & I were recently on a walk,
and a HUUUGE box of heavy duty 40gal trash bags literally bounced out of a passing lawn care truck.
I'm still 'vibrating with pleasure!' haha!
Score!  If a lawn care company was using them, you can bet they are truly heavy-duty.  Those are the good ones.

CU Tiger

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2017, 10:41:59 AM »
On topic, my dad is like this with industrial sized boxes of foam ear plugs. Ends up with a lifetime supply after various engineering projects are finished. I always snaffle a few pairs for flights, motorsport, etc.

I buy them in bulk because I sleep in them. They're so cheap that I've gotten in the habit of keeping a handful in my bag, and I give them away at concerts when it's loud and someone didn't think to bring earplugs. Good karma for ten cents. This week I gave some to a seven-year-old girl with a stupid and irresponsible parent.

I read this and my mental picture was someone sleeping IN earplugs. A giant bed of ear plugs. A bumpy bed of ear plugs. Hmmm...that was unexpected. Then, sanity kicked in, and I realized that you sleep WITH THEM in your ears. Then I was sad, because the bed of ear plugs was funnier.

ketchup

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #39 on: March 31, 2017, 10:44:36 AM »
On topic, my dad is like this with industrial sized boxes of foam ear plugs. Ends up with a lifetime supply after various engineering projects are finished. I always snaffle a few pairs for flights, motorsport, etc.

I buy them in bulk because I sleep in them. They're so cheap that I've gotten in the habit of keeping a handful in my bag, and I give them away at concerts when it's loud and someone didn't think to bring earplugs. Good karma for ten cents. This week I gave some to a seven-year-old girl with a stupid and irresponsible parent.

I read this and my mental picture was someone sleeping IN earplugs. A giant bed of ear plugs. A bumpy bed of ear plugs. Hmmm...that was unexpected. Then, sanity kicked in, and I realized that you sleep WITH THEM in your ears. Then I was sad, because the bed of ear plugs was funnier.
When someone calls themselves a "dog person" do you also think of human-canine hybrids?  Because I often do... and I say that as a "dog person" that avoids the phrase for solely that reason.

Dollar Slice

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2017, 10:53:28 AM »
On topic, my dad is like this with industrial sized boxes of foam ear plugs. Ends up with a lifetime supply after various engineering projects are finished. I always snaffle a few pairs for flights, motorsport, etc.

I buy them in bulk because I sleep in them. They're so cheap that I've gotten in the habit of keeping a handful in my bag, and I give them away at concerts when it's loud and someone didn't think to bring earplugs. Good karma for ten cents. This week I gave some to a seven-year-old girl with a stupid and irresponsible parent.

I read this and my mental picture was someone sleeping IN earplugs. A giant bed of ear plugs. A bumpy bed of ear plugs. Hmmm...that was unexpected. Then, sanity kicked in, and I realized that you sleep WITH THEM in your ears. Then I was sad, because the bed of ear plugs was funnier.

Kind of like a ball pit, but with foam earplugs. That sounds pretty comfy. :-)

esq

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2017, 11:20:23 AM »
OP: not having access to any shape or form of free trash bags (13 gal), I always buy Ruffies brand, available only at Kroger stores.  The bags are 8 cents each, and are the standard by which I judge all other bags, none of which have been able to live up to Ruffies in the quality you get for such a low price.

Once in the glory days of couponing, circa 2009, I was able to score 24 months of free tuna, which is almost impossible to find at even a discounted price.  I still remember the day I used my last can.  My coupon buddy and I cried and cried as if our cheap little hearts would break.


BuzzardsBay

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2017, 11:40:56 AM »
I completely understand and I can't believe someone else has actually had this experience.  I worked for a company for 24 years.  I was with them on day one when they opened and I supervised cleaning out the office when they closed.  I took home a bunch of stuff from the office supply closet that they were going to throw out and there was a box of garbage bags.  (I also donated a lot to the office of our local Boys & Girls Club which was nice to be able to do.)   They were small.  Something I used in the bathroom/bedroom/home office.  And the box lasted about 2 1/2 years.  The day I took the last one was so strange.  I spent a lot of time thinking about that company, the great work we did and the people I worked with.  It was very sad.  I totally get where you're coming from.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2017, 03:31:58 PM »
Somehow this reminds me of the story about a Swedish police station ordering some toilet paper back in the 70's. Instead of ordering X number of rolls, they mistakenly ordered X number of pallets. The supply lasted 34 years.


lchu

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2017, 04:13:07 PM »
My wife's mother once gifted us with a box full of sample sized Dove soap from the doctor's office where she worked -- after 8 years, we are down to the last 6 remaining and haven't needed to purchase hand or shower soap.

I'm not sure how we'll feel once we use the last one and have to actually purchase normal, full sized soap.  Showering with tiny soap makes me pretend my biceps are gigantic!

gp_

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2017, 04:36:35 PM »
I have to go out and buy trash bags and it makes me sad.

wow, i can relate big time (i laughed out loud reading your post). i hoard plastic bags, as i use them for garbage / recycling bags. i find myself sighing if i can't reuse the same plastic bag a 2nd time for the recycling... we're definitely in the minority, haha!

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2017, 05:02:18 PM »
It just occurred to me that I complain all the time my kids spend money on stuff that they will just end up throwing away...and yet I spend a fortune on trash bags...hmmm....

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2017, 05:26:18 PM »
Showering with tiny soap makes me pretend my biceps are gigantic!

:D :D :D

Definitely going to use this to help convince my husband we need to use up more of his hotel and airline stash of toiletries.

ltt

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #48 on: March 31, 2017, 06:39:25 PM »
OMG....I am sooooooo jealous!  They are sooooo pricey these days.  I hate when I'm getting low on them and have to go out and buy some.

plainjane

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Re: I'm sad and I think only MMM people will understand why
« Reply #49 on: March 31, 2017, 07:26:37 PM »
And now they are all gone. I have to go out and buy trash bags and it makes me sad. And bewildered.

I did a similar thing at my last work with laundry detergent, though it only lasted me 2 years and a bit.  We are still in great shape for all-purpose cleaning sprays, 8 more years seems plausible - I don't really use the spray cleaners all that much.