Hurricane Sandy and its effect on Mustache Growth

[Honest Abe]

I'm surprised there hasn't been a topic on this yet, but maybe I missed it.

Up here in New York, there are gas lines nearly two miles long. Luckily I filled up both our gas tanks and we've used the post disaster week off from work to stay at home with only minor automobile usage.

Others, however, are not so lucky. Power outages and disruptions at ports have hurt gas supplies. Decimated public transportation has forced those who are lucky enough to work to take cars everywhere, which increases demand. Also, Hundreds of thousands are powering their homes on generators, which also increases demand.

Alot of people are suffering, so this is in no way meant to make light of the situation. However while seeing/hearing of people spending 7 hours in a gas line only to be turned away, I cannot help but think of this site.

Will these events lead more people to mustashianism? It seems like a conservative-consumption lifestyle may be the new normal, especially for those who are scarred by the gas-panic. Yesterday I drove by a house that was getting a geo-thermal system installed.

Any thoughts or ruminations from the MMM community?

Also, if you haven't already considered doing so, here is an option for your charitable giving, should you feel so inclined.

http://www.redcross.org/charitable-donations
https://svdprvc-donate.org/get-involved/ways-to-donate/donate-now.html

[Jamesqf]

I don't know, but it seems there is a good bit of what you might call an unrealistic sense of entitlement going on there.  They had a major weather disaster on Monday & Tuesday, and want everything back to normal by the weekend?

(Not to mention a seeming lack of common sense: I was struck by a picture of a guy pushing his car into a gas station, because he left the engine idling while waiting in a long line.)

I've been through the disaster thing myself: high winds blow a fire through the area, and you've got maybe half an hour to collect critters, check on the neighbors, and get out - and at that, with flames either side of the road, I counted myself lucky, and sure didn't expect to be back to normal right away.

[Worsted Skeins]

Fortunately Sandy just gave us some breezes and rain, but I am not a stranger to hurricanes.  In fact, there are those who would say we're crazy because we live on a barrier island.  I have evacuated more times than I care to count...

Having said that, we know how to prep for storms.  I think that this is something a lot of people inland are not accustomed to doing--even though they could be subjected to tornadoes, ice storms, etc.  For us, it is automatic to fill the gas tank when we know a storm is coming. We make sure we have cash on hand because when businesses reopen they may not have credit/debit card swipe machines working.  I keep a pantry of food but not just for storms.  The last thing I want to do is have to waste my time and money going to the store for an ingredient or two.  With a mustache, one is prepared.

We choose not to own a generator but have a trusty land line (buried lines that never fail during a storm) and a hard wired phone, lanterns, a propane camp stove and a propane grill.  During power losses we have pulled out board games, musical instruments, and craft projects.  Trying to drive after a storm often leads to other disasters if roads are flooded.  Not worth it.

Whether one lives in the sub-tropics, a tornado belt or the snow belt, being prepared for blips on the screen should be a standard operating procedure.  How extreme one wants to be is up to the individual.  I think that priuspilot is right in noting that a "conservative consumption lifestyle may be the new normal".   I also agree with Jamesqf that there is a lack of common sense exercised by some.  Always makes me chuckle when people gripe about the loss of their cable after storms.  As though this is extreme deprivation!!

[c]

We were in Red Hook yesterday and it was heart breaking to see everyone's things piled up on the side of the street. It's not like people were putting out tons of flat screen tvs and mother-of-pearl caviar spoons. It was stuff like book cases, pictures, sofas, dvds. Even the most "mustachian" amongst us isn't sitting in an empty apartment, staring at blank walls (to paraphrase Bill Hicks).

I don't think it's unrealistic entitlement to expect things to go back to normal as soon as the storm passes. When you live in a city certain things just always happen - lights, heat, running water etc; you take these things for granted. This isn't entitlement, it's just the base level of how you live. You focus on other things that you need to do to survive. It's like you never think about how you breathe until you have a chest infection and every breath is an effort. Many of the hardest hit areas are low income areas, where people have a difficult enough time without not being able to heat their food or get to work.

Most of my colleagues live in the wealthier areas of NJ (with all the trappings) and they aren't really talking about cutting down, they're talking about being more prepared for next time. It's sad when someone says their fish died because the power went out and the water got too cold or their son is upset because his birthday party got cancelled. Everyone chooses their priorities and what's meaningless to one person is a reason to get up go to work for someone else.

I was speaking to someone at work last week and I said "I'm really glad I don't have a car or cable TV because I don't have to worry about crap like gas and 'no tv'" and he said "well, aren't you lucky then" and I felt like a sanctimonious shit.

I've been through a disaster where I lost everything. Things like Sandy bring back how important routine and "stuff" is in your everyday life.

Those are my ruminations on the whole thing.

[Honest Abe]

I don't know, but it seems there is a good bit of what you might call an unrealistic sense of entitlement going on there.  They had a major weather disaster on Monday & Tuesday, and want everything back to normal by the weekend?

(Not to mention a seeming lack of common sense: I was struck by a picture of a guy pushing his car into a gas station, because he left the engine idling while waiting in a long line.)

I've been through the disaster thing myself: high winds blow a fire through the area, and you've got maybe half an hour to collect critters, check on the neighbors, and get out - and at that, with flames either side of the road, I counted myself lucky, and sure didn't expect to be back to normal right away.

The gas lines are between 4-7 hours long... Certainly alot of foolishness but I can see how people could run out. There are 2 big contributors to the problem: Public transportation was completely decimated this week so people had to drive literally everywhere they needed to go, and half the stations in NY were down due to no electricity.

The good news is that I've never seen communities come together in this area the way they just have. They did so on 9/11 but the destruction there wasn't so widespread.. alot of people in the low-lying areas had their homes destroyed/flooded out.

I guess what I'm saying is that some people are suffering b/c they didn't prepare, yes, but they aren't welfare queens. Even with the warnings I'm not sure anyone alive in this area can remember a storm with such devastating effects... now they will!

[AdrianM]

I live in a Cyclone prone area of Australia, and I can tell you that people won't learn.

We get a few Cyclones each year and no matter how much warning some people get they will continue to repeat the same mistakes.

The time to prepare is well before they happen.

Fuel for cars is a classic; They will be smart enough to fuel up their car before a cyclone, but then stupid enough to drive round afterward to look at the damage.
Then complain that they have no fuel because they power is out and the gas station can't pump any fuel. (I have had extended family do this, told them they were bloody idiots.)

Fuel for gensets is just as bad as people decide they have to run them 24hrs a day so they can have aircon, lights, TV etc. simply run them for a couple of hours each to keep the fridge and freezers cold, Stick a list of Ingredients in the fridge on the door and then don't open them until you no exactly what you want to grab, then do it quickly.

Tidy up your yard. Clear all loose objects and trim back trees. Just a general ongoing maintenance proccess. Come cyclone season they even advertise it. Do people do anything about it. Not untill there is a cyclone bearing down on you. Then it’s a mad rush to get it all done in a day or two. (Don’t plan on buy any tools to help you, they will all be sold out)

Right now we are heading into another Cyclone season, they suggest 4 will hit the Queensland coast this year. So time to get ready now, as soon as they declare a cyclone watch there is panic buying and the shops get cleaned out of many essentials.

But sadly I know I will be in the minority and I will watch the cycle repeat over and over again. I put it down to most people being grasshoppers not ants.

[StashinIt]

My thoughts on Hurricane Sandy

• These trials will soon be forgotten and people will got back to their non-mustachian ways
• For the most part NY/NJ handled the situation very well
• The loss of life compared to the number of people effected was minimal (something to be thankful for)
• Yes, there are a number of news stories in the MSM with people making claims like "We're all going to die unless we get food and clothing RIGHT NOW" etc. However, the vast majority that are hunkering down and doing sensible things just don't make good headlines.
• Gas and power will be restored soon (if they have not already)
• I've seen some encouraging stories about a lot of new people trying bike commuting
• It gave me pause to review my own disaster plan

[c]

I live in a Cyclone prone area of Australia, and I can tell you that people won't learn.

...

This weekend we helped people dig out their homes. In one case in a building they'd lived in for 40 years, they'd never been flooded, in another, the owner lost her sister in Sandy - her sister lived in Upstate NY - the home we dug out was the place they grew up in.

Shit happens.

We have friends who prepared and still lost everything. We heard similar stories from people all over where we were.

There are people who are active members of *this* community who suffered losses.  I'm sure once they get back on their feet and have power, they'll tell their own story.

It's so easy to sit back and pass judgment. For the most part, people are just getting up every day to live their lives. Some people cannot help where they live, others just don't know any better, and it's a lesson no one should have to learn this way.

[AdrianM]

It's so easy to sit back and pass judgment. For the most part, people are just getting up every day to live their lives. Some people cannot help where they live, others just don't know any better, and it's a lesson no one should have to learn this way.

Yes Shit happens, But I lived through this monster last year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclone_Yasi

Makes Sandy look like a baby.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Sandy

So FYI I have a good idea of what shit happens and the stupid things people do.

[sheepstache]

My thoughts on Hurricane Sandy

• Yes, there are a number of news stories in the MSM with people making claims like "We're all going to die unless we get food and clothing RIGHT NOW" etc. However, the vast majority that are hunkering down and doing sensible things just don't make good headlines.

Right?  That's gotta be it, right?  I'm trying hard not to be unsympathetic, but sometimes I just can't understand how people are in such desperate circumstances when everything is completely fine less than ten miles away.  If it were me, even if I were taken by surprise and couldn't grab anything, I'd walk the hell out of there, find somewhere in an unaffected area to stay, and buy a coat from a consignment shop on the way.

Of course, this assumes three things: a) I can walk over five miles which the disabled and elderly can not do, b) I have friends elsewhere in the city which newcomers would not have, and c) I have fifty bucks to drop on a new coat and any other necessary short-term supplies.

I had a smart highschool teacher who asked us to think critically about a statistic he had read: "20% of Americans won't have enough money to retire."  A student smarter than me finally came up with the necessary insight: 20% of people don't have enough or just have enough to get by from day to day--why would that suddenly change when they hit 65?
That really addresses point c.  There is a great deal of inequality in nyc.  A lot of poor people are here both because, despite its high cost of living, it's actually easier to be poor here than out in the suburbs and/or because they're here to make their fortune.  Obviously people in a precarious position are going to be in even more of a precarious position when disaster hits.

So it really chaps my hide to see someone on the news who looks like they've got advantages a, b, and c but are leeching help from rescue organizations who could be helping those who have no choice but to depend on help.
Of course, I am not talking about people who need help in the long-term because their homes were destroyed, but people who are demanding flash light batteries from the red cross because they have not yet figured out that there are flashlight batteries a couple hours' walk away.

Yes Shit happens, But I lived through this monster last year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclone_Yasi

Makes Sandy look like a baby.

Yes, but, as others have said, it's not the severity of the weather, it's the novelty.  Listen to you all giving protips, like, only run your generator for a couple hours and put up a list of what's in your fridge.  It sounds like you've learned a lot from having to fall back on generators multiple times; other people haven't had the "good fortune" of that experience.  Hell, I'm surprised to learn that so many people in New York City even _have_ generators.

There are 2 big contributors to the problem: Public transportation was completely decimated this week so people had to drive literally everywhere they needed to go, and half the stations in NY were down due to no electricity.

This is a great point.  Even though I just made it out as an advantage that so much of the city is up and running like normal, it is also a problem.  Individual attitudes are important but the effects of groupthink matter too.  People who live in an affected area but work in a non-affected area were still expected to come to work, so the city is continuing to use the same or an even greater amount of resources just to go on as normal but with reduced supply chains. 

[frompa]

I live in a part of Pennsylvania that was very affected by Sandy.  Some of the effects were downed trees, crushed houses, power outage that is still going on for some, though mine only lasted three days.  We did fine; we ate very well from our pantry, my gas stove worked, we had ample replacement lighting, and we generally are pretty low on the power usage anyway.  I was surprised, though, at how deeply affected I felt by the break in routine -- by the fact that nobody who needed power to do so, could go to work; that the streets were awash with power lines and fallen trees, so we couldn't bike at all; that the library was closed; even by the fact that though we had light, it wasn't enough to allow me the typical run of my house after the darkness fell. I don't have a tv, and I haven't seen much of the news coverage of these events, but no doubt some of the media has highlighted those with the ability to talk loudest.  Even though some people may seem crazy, demanding, self-centered and unrealistic, most are not.  I'm empathetic; after all, we are looking at the destruction of whole communities, in a random way that's hard to take in.  We can sit back and say, "climate change, they should have seen it coming," but it seems human nature that most people can take in and focus on only a much smaller sphere than the global. 
     What has frugality got to do with this?  Many of us know through experience that more stuff does not bring contentment or security.  Many of us voluntarily practice getting by without some things, short or long term, so that experience of doing without isn't as strange or scary to us. Some of us are skilled at making do.  But none of that is protection against the shit that happens in life, whether it's a natural disaster like Sandy, or illness of a loved one, divorce, you name it.  I hope we take whatever advantages we might have in understanding how to amass resources and get by on relatively little, to try to relieve some of the real pain, loss, and uncertainty that many people are experiencing right now. Although I hate sounding so fucking earnest, and especially first thing in the day, (what if I set an earnest tone for my entire day??) this event made me appreciate my connection to the wider community. 
     

[tooqk4u22]

Yes Shit happens, But I lived through this monster last year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclone_Yasi

Makes Sandy look like a baby.

Yes, but, as others have said, it's not the severity of the weather, it's the novelty.  Listen to you all giving protips, like, only run your generator for a couple hours and put up a list of what's in your fridge.  It sounds like you've learned a lot from having to fall back on generators multiple times; other people haven't had the "good fortune" of that experience.  Hell, I'm surprised to learn that so many people in New York City even _have_ generator

Obviously a hurrican and cyclone are the same thing.  Sandy was huge from size standpoint but not from a intensity standpoint. There were many areas affected by the wind and signifcant rainfall that caused trees to topple, which is what most areas experienced causing power outages (this part is an inconvenience and is not devastating as long as it didn't affect a life).  However, coastal areas were crushed as a result of the tidal surges - this is where the devasatation is and continues.  For these areas it was 100 year storm and maybe worse - it is complete tragedy in these areas.

I am sorry people are not sympathetic to whole areas of a community getting wiped off the map and those people affected by it wanting to see progress in getting things back on.

[AdrianM]

Obviously a hurrican and cyclone are the same thing.  Sandy was huge from size standpoint but not from a intensity standpoint. There were many areas affected by the wind and signifcant rainfall that caused trees to topple, which is what most areas experienced causing power outages (this part is an inconvenience and is not devastating as long as it didn't affect a life).  However, coastal areas were crushed as a result of the tidal surges - this is where the devasatation is and continues.  For these areas it was 100 year storm and maybe worse - it is complete tragedy in these areas.

I am sorry people are not sympathetic to whole areas of a community getting wiped off the map and those people affected by it wanting to see progress in getting things back on.

Just a FYI Yasi was a 100 year storm in size and intensity. I would relocate if we got them that big every year.

I also like how you equate no compassion, with me pointing out people won’t learn.

I will state it again most people won’t learn from it. They are too stupid. How do I know, because I see it every cyclone season.
Does this make me insensitive maybe. Realistic defiantly.

Every year we get advised to prepare ahead of cyclone season, Warnings are on TV now, and not even a chance of a cyclone. When one is declared the majority of people make a mad rush to prepare. That is when you see that same occurrences, as you saw with Sandy.

Example
Yasi Supermarket


Sandy Supermarket

[Jamesqf]

I am sorry people are not sympathetic to whole areas of a community getting wiped off the map and those people affected by it wanting to see progress in getting things back on.

I think you're misunderstanding what people are saying here.  There's no lack of sympathy for those who have suffered real losses*, it's the far larger number who are undergoing what in context seem like minor inconveniences like no electricity, having to wait in gas lines (with the engine running, of course!), and so on, and whine about it.

(*But as I kept telling people who wondered why I wasn't tearing my hair out during the days I stayed with friends while waiting to find out whether my house was one of the dozens burned to the ground (it wasn't), I got out with my dogs, even had time to grab the laptop and help the neighbors.  The rest is just stuff.  It can be replaced, so why worry?)

[tooqk4u22]

I think you're misunderstanding what people are saying here.  There's no lack of sympathy for those who have suffered real losses*, it's the far larger number who are undergoing what in context seem like minor inconveniences like no electricity, having to wait in gas lines (with the engine running, of course!), and so on, and whine about it.

I agree that is different, and if that is what all is getting at then ok. Some of the comments seem rather harsh and I am generally not a very sympathetic person. Like with Sandy I am not sympathetic to someone losing power for a few days, or vacation homes on the beach that were wrecked (that will cost a lot in taxpayer dollars and increased insurance premiums to fix) but I am sympathetic to those who lost loved ones and had primary homes severely damaged or destroyed in areas that historically have not been impacted by such storms.  Incidentally, it is hard for me to be sympathetic to someone who died because they didn't head an evacutation notice, is it tragic - sure it is, but it was a choice they made. 

Separately, I am bit confused about those people waiting in 3-6 hour gas lines, as people in north jersey can drive about an hour south and there were no gas issues.

[sibamor]

Separately, I am bit confused about those people waiting in 3-6 hour gas lines, as people in north jersey can drive about an hour south and there were no gas issues.

This, ditto.

[BBC]

I grew up on Long Island but dont live there any longer.  Lots of people were truly devastated and lost everything.  Lots of people were slightly inconvenienced and pretended like it was the end of the world.  Facebook was full of house wives complaining their husbands didn't have enough gas to run the generators they just spent $1200 to run only the TV. 

They lack of appreciating this countries infrastructure is really starting to anger me.  All the people are complaining about no power, but when ever the utility tries to expand capacity or upgrade systems everyone protests because rates might go up a penny or the clams might get hurt (thats not a joke, clams, really). 

Gas is a double edges sword.  You need electricity to pump it.  You need gas to run your little generators.  The longer the power is out the longer more people buy those little generators.  Hence needed more gas.  I think local gas stations and distribution points need to go back to having some kind of manual pumping backup system.   Either gravity feed or water powered, something. 

[ellenklutz]

I live in New York City and I have to say I am pretty surprised about the attitude being expressed in some of the posts in this thread.  Sure there are complainy-pants people who are whining about electricity and cable.  But there are also many people who have seriously suffered because of this storm - I know people who have lost their cars and their houses.  There was one area in Staten Island that was not designated an evacuation zone but ended up getting hit by the surge and people died.  I work in Downtown Manhattan and there are many stores and restaurants there that are closed due to flooding and it's not clear whether some of the smaller ones will be able to reopen.  One man who worked as a parking garage attendant in the flood zone was told by his employers that he had to come to work, and he drowned.  Most of the people I know who were not seriously affected have not complained at all and even those who have had problems have noted that they were lucky that their family was safe.  So, as a New Yorker, for this thread to focus on the (at least in my experience) few in number complainy-pants New Yorkers when there are many people with real tragedy here is making it seem like this is not the disaster that it is.

However, I do agree that being Mustachian probably helped people get through the storm.  I don't have a car, so gas lines aren't a problem for me, and I don't have cable, so it didn't matter if it cut out. 

In terms of driving an hour south for gas, that assumes you have gas in your car to drive an hour south.  This disaster is unprecedented in our area and we have never had gas lines like this before.  Many people were not prepared for extended gas shortages.  Maybe you can say that those people are stupid, but like I said, this is unprecedented for our area and so people did not realize it would be difficult to get gas even weeks after the storm.