Poll

How many countries have you visited (not counting the one you live in)? (Airport stopovers do not count!)

Zero - I've never left the country!
13 (1.9%)
1-4
124 (18.3%)
5-8
136 (20.1%)
9-10
66 (9.7%)
11+
338 (49.9%)

Total Members Voted: 652

Author Topic: How well traveled are you?  (Read 41698 times)

Hirondelle

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #200 on: April 24, 2019, 12:51:45 PM »
I'm pretty shocked by the poll results. I think it's another example of how unusual the sub-sample of people populating this board is, and how much they might not realize how unusual they are.

For context: https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/americans-travel-survey-article-1.2431648


Also realize that not everyone voting here is in the US. For the Canadians and the Australians traveling abroad won't be much easier, but all the Europeans on the board (there's a lot of UK folks!) can just take a $10 Ryanair flight to 10+ countries. Or just bike, as one person upthread mentioned.

SimpleCycle

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #201 on: April 24, 2019, 01:17:44 PM »
I'm pretty shocked by the poll results. I think it's another example of how unusual the sub-sample of people populating this board is, and how much they might not realize how unusual they are.

For context: https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/americans-travel-survey-article-1.2431648


Also realize that not everyone voting here is in the US. For the Canadians and the Australians traveling abroad won't be much easier, but all the Europeans on the board (there's a lot of UK folks!) can just take a $10 Ryanair flight to 10+ countries. Or just bike, as one person upthread mentioned.

My wife grew up in Germany and they used to drive to France once in a while for dinner.  It's not the same at all for Europeans to travel to multiple foreign countries as it is for someone in the United States.

Villanelle

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #202 on: April 24, 2019, 01:25:24 PM »
I'm pretty shocked by the poll results. I think it's another example of how unusual the sub-sample of people populating this board is, and how much they might not realize how unusual they are.

I would take these poll results with a grain of salt bigger than your head.  This isn't a representative sample.  People who don't like to travel aren't going to click on this thread and vote.  People who have been lots of places are definitely going to click on this thread and vote.

You might as well start a thread asking how many motorcycles you own, or how many scuba dives you've done.  The vast majority of people would answer zero in a representative poll, but those are exactly the folks who won't vote.  What you're really seeing here is more like "among people who like to travel to foreign countries and are willing to brag about it, how many foreign countries have you visited?"  It's a fine question and maybe still interesting, but not really comparable to any other data source.

This.  Also, circumstances vary.  We had several active coast guard members post, for example.  I lived in Germany, which made so much of my travel much easier, quicker, and cheaper.  And I lived in Japan, although work circumstances dictated we couldn't travel as much as we'd have liked.  (I had trips to Mongolia and Bali canceled due to work on 48 and >24 hours, respectively!) 

wenchsenior

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #203 on: April 24, 2019, 01:35:45 PM »
I'm pretty shocked by the poll results. I think it's another example of how unusual the sub-sample of people populating this board is, and how much they might not realize how unusual they are.

For context: https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/americans-travel-survey-article-1.2431648
...

Would you summarise it? No need to copy the whole thing but just the main point. Like many US newspapers now, it's not available to readers in the EU.

Everybody's situation is different. I was a Navy brat, and as a kid, I thought it would be just wonderful if we could just stop moving and travelling and instead stay in one place forever.

Essentially, ~30% of Americans have never left the country, and the average number of countries Americans have visited is 3.  71% indicated the reason for their lack of travel was cost.  The average resident of the UK has traveled to 10 countries, with other Europeans traveling somewhat less.

Good points on the poll itself having a pretty biased sample.

Kwill

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #204 on: April 24, 2019, 03:59:27 PM »
Essentially, ~30% of Americans have never left the country, and the average number of countries Americans have visited is 3.  71% indicated the reason for their lack of travel was cost.  The average resident of the UK has traveled to 10 countries, with other Europeans traveling somewhat less.

Thank you. I imagine a lot of Americans have done just as much travel in miles as people in the UK or continental Europe. The borders being closer together in Europe makes a big difference, as others have said.

sol

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #205 on: April 24, 2019, 04:10:44 PM »
I imagine a lot of Americans have done just as much travel in miles as people in the UK or continental Europe. The borders being closer together in Europe makes a big difference, as others have said.

While I was in college in LA, I took several road trips that were in excess of 4000 miles each, all without leaving the lower 48.  Gas was cheap.  The country is big.

desk_jockey

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #206 on: April 24, 2019, 08:03:44 PM »
Have added a few countries to my "have been list" since I first posted to this thread in 2013 (2013?!!).  All of these were countries that I visited for work, or in which I added a few days at the end of the work trip and jumped over to a neighboring country to check it out.

cerat0n1a

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #207 on: April 24, 2019, 11:47:05 PM »
I'm pretty shocked by the poll results. I think it's another example of how unusual the sub-sample of people populating this board is, and how much they might not realize how unusual they are.

For context: https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/americans-travel-survey-article-1.2431648


Also realize that not everyone voting here is in the US. For the Canadians and the Australians traveling abroad won't be much easier, but all the Europeans on the board (there's a lot of UK folks!) can just take a $10 Ryanair flight to 10+ countries. Or just bike, as one person upthread mentioned.

And before we had Ryanair & other cheap airlines, there was a Europe-wide subsidised railway pass for young people. I visited 30+ countries on the train between the ages of 18 and 21. There's probably 20+ countries that I could get there and back in a single day using Ryanair or other budget airlines and another 20+ that could be reached for under $100 (if you don't care about carbon emissions.)

I do think Americans travel abroad a lot less than the people from some other countries. Whenever I've been in out of the way places in Asia, Africa or South America, there's always a sprinkling of Canadians, Aussies & Kiwis, Israelis, Dutch, Scandinavians, British people. It's way less common to meet people from the US, even though the US population out-strips those countries combined. I guess the no-vacation work culture prevents most people from going too far.

Hirondelle

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #208 on: April 25, 2019, 12:33:22 AM »
The railway pass is still there, right? Although I'm not sure if it's still as affordable. I still used it a couple years ago, but only the 2 week one and visited 3 countries at that time.

And I do agree with your second point! In Asia (haven't been to Africa or South America yet) the nationalities I heard most were UK, German and Dutch. Also generally more Canadians/Aussies/Kiwis than US folks. On the other hand when traveling around Europe you find Americans a bit more as I think Europe is a bigger "thing" for them than (SE-)Asia.

ospreyjp

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #209 on: April 25, 2019, 05:44:17 AM »
Government work has taken me to quite a few countries.  My current ME location puts me In close proximity to a good number of European and Asian countries as well.  I haven’t visited anywhere in S.A. or Africa yet, I look forward to it though.  Also, more than half of the countries on the list are places my wife and I took our children to!

Canada
Mexico
UK
France
Italy
Austria
Czech
Hungary
Serbia
Romania
Vatican City
Greece
Turkey
UAE
Kuwait
Afghanistan
Kyrgyzstan
Nepal
Sri Lanka
Russia
Thailand
Vietnam
Singapore
Timor Leste
Philippines
South Korea
Japan
Australia
New Zealand
USA

30 countries in total - I have not included the 10 or so additional countries I transited through and not left the airport.  Also, I did not include territories of countries that I already visited.

I love travel and hope Incan continue to add to this number in the future!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reader

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #210 on: April 25, 2019, 06:43:03 AM »
Singapore (home)
US
Canada
Australia
Japan
Thailand
Philippines
Indonesia
Malaysia
China / Hong Kong / Macao
Taiwan
Germany
France
UK
Austria
Poland
Netherlands
Switzerland
Belgium
Italy
Greece
Monaco
Hungary
Czech Republic
Vatican
Spain
Turkey
Malta

reading the lists, i just discovered a few more countries to visit. my all time favourite in my list is japan.

former player

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #211 on: April 25, 2019, 06:57:48 AM »
The premise of this thread seems to be the higher the number the better?  And that it is better/more fashionable to spend on "experiences" rather than "things"?

I'm probably at about 40 countries, including a round the world trip, but considering the environmental damage I was doing I'm not exactly proud of it these days.  I won't go anywhere now that I can't get to by train or ship.

I'm a red panda

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #212 on: April 25, 2019, 07:00:58 AM »
I guess the no-vacation work culture prevents most people from going too far.

One of our managers just came back from a 10 day trip to a resort in Mexico.   She was raving "Wow- everyone should take 10 days off, it's amazing!"

In 25 years of work, she had never taken a vacation that long.

sol

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #213 on: April 25, 2019, 09:14:02 AM »
She was raving "Wow- everyone should take 10 days off, it's amazing!"

To be fair, ten days off IS pretty amazing.  It's even better when you don't have to go back to work afterwards.

I'm at 239 days and counting.

cerat0n1a

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #214 on: April 25, 2019, 09:54:06 AM »
The railway pass is still there, right? Although I'm not sure if it's still as affordable. I still used it a couple years ago, but only the 2 week one and visited 3 countries at that time.

It is, but more expensive/much more restricted. I know lots of university aged students in the UK and inter-railing is not a thing any more. There are far fewer international sleeper trains these days, competition from budget airlines I guess. We've just booked a train trip from the UK to Slovenia, via Switzerland & Venice, but it's not a cheap option.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 11:35:13 AM by cerat0n1a »

YK-Phil

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #215 on: April 25, 2019, 10:19:12 AM »

...considering the environmental damage I was doing I'm not exactly proud of it these days.  I won't go anywhere now that I can't get to by train or ship.

This. I am part of the overlanding "sub-culture" and despite being an avid traveler, I now keep in mind the huge environmental footprint of air travel, vs. other modes of transportation such as road, train, and ship.

jeroly

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #216 on: April 25, 2019, 10:20:45 AM »
As someone who's traveled a lot (>50 countries), the more interesting questions to me are:

Where haven't you been that you want to get to?
...and ...
Which of the following places (my list of the places I most want to visit) are you looking to travel to, and need a traveling companion?

Key:

** = not now as there are challenging political or dangerous conditions

++ = second or third etc. trip to the country, focused on specific portions

AFRICA:
**Mali & Burkina Faso**
Tanzania & Kenya
Uganda
Ethiopia
Madagascar

ASIA:
Uzbekistan / Tajikistan
Georgia
India ++
Nepal
South Korea
**Iran**
China++

OCEANIA:
Philippines (mostly a beach vacation)
New Zealand
Australia++
Indonesia++: Sumatra & Sulawesi


SOUTH AMERICA:
Colombia
Ecuador w/ Galapagos Islands
Brail++:  Salvador & Bahia
Chile
Antarctic Cruise

CARIBBEAN/CENTRAL AMERICA:
Cuba
Guatemala
Costa Rica
Mexico++: Chiapas; Baja California (mostly beach vacation)

MIDDLE EAST:
**Israel**
Jordan

EUROPE:
Baltic States
Balkans
Portugal
Italy++: Sicily, Calabria, Amalfi Coast & Naples, Cinque Terre
Slovenia
Bulgaria / Albania
Malta

For most of these I'm looking to do two week trips. Ideally every other month for the next six or seven years. Somewhere between a FrugalFIRE and FatFIRE style of travel, depending on how the trip develops. I plan to visit Bosnia and Croatia in August (found someone for this trip), and hope for Colombia in June and Ethiopia or Nepal in October.

59 yo M, open to travel companions of either sex, not looking for a romantic or sex thing.

PM me if interested!!!


Enigma

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #217 on: April 25, 2019, 12:12:36 PM »
Spain
Malaysia
Germany
Philippines
Djibouti, Africa
Afghanistan
Iraq
Poland
Dubai
Abu Dhabi
Czech Rep
Slovakia
Bahamas
Netherlands
St Martin
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Puerto Rico

To be honest I do not like traveling as much as I did then.

jinga nation

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #218 on: April 25, 2019, 12:29:44 PM »
Kenya (born and raised)
Tanzania
South Africa
India
UK (England, Scotland)
Ireland
Dubai
Canada
US (emigrated here)
Costa Rica
Peru

surpasspro

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #219 on: April 25, 2019, 12:33:37 PM »
I'm curious if you counted Antarctica as a country.   

I don't count Antarctica as a country since technically no one owns it like the moon.  Which is actually part of my point.  I spent over a week there and maybe just a day in some other country.  So that's why I think the number of countries really isn't as important as your experiences somewhere.  It's fun to count I suppose... I'm at 47 US states and I'm going to be 4 hours from one on my list coming up.  I may just drive there do something for awhile and leave to check it off.  At the end of the day its just a talking point saying you've been to X #'s of whatever, but in reality I think it really depends on your view of things.  I'd rather collect experiences than passport stamps.  Funny enough I got a passport stamp while in Antarctica.

dougules

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #220 on: April 25, 2019, 03:32:45 PM »
I do think Americans travel abroad a lot less than the people from some other countries. Whenever I've been in out of the way places in Asia, Africa or South America, there's always a sprinkling of Canadians, Aussies & Kiwis, Israelis, Dutch, Scandinavians, British people. It's way less common to meet people from the US, even though the US population out-strips those countries combined. I guess the no-vacation work culture prevents most people from going too far.

No-vacation culture is probably the biggest of several of reasons.  You can also add fear of language barrier, not knowing how to get around without a car, misconceptions about safety in other countries, economic inequality and insecurity, and the fact that there's already so much to see within a country the size of the US.

I backpacked though Central America when I was younger, and it seemed like Germans and Kiwis were especially disproportionately represented.  There were a decent number of travelers from the US, but not nearly proportional to the fact that the US has the population of the five top EU countries combined and the fact that it doesn't involve leaving the continent. 

On the flip side, though, in Panama I talked to a girl on the bus who had been all over Panama but never left the country.  She lived a 45 minute bus ride from Costa Rica.  Maybe it stands out more that people from some parts of Europe and its colonial children are so apt to travel.   

I'm curious if you counted Antarctica as a country.   

I don't count Antarctica as a country since technically no one owns it like the moon.  Which is actually part of my point.  I spent over a week there and maybe just a day in some other country.  So that's why I think the number of countries really isn't as important as your experiences somewhere.  It's fun to count I suppose... I'm at 47 US states and I'm going to be 4 hours from one on my list coming up.  I may just drive there do something for awhile and leave to check it off.  At the end of the day its just a talking point saying you've been to X #'s of whatever, but in reality I think it really depends on your view of things.  I'd rather collect experiences than passport stamps.  Funny enough I got a passport stamp while in Antarctica.

I completely agree.  There was discussion earlier about counting countries and what is a country, though. 

aspiringnomad

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #221 on: April 26, 2019, 09:02:12 PM »
I do think Americans travel abroad a lot less than the people from some other countries. Whenever I've been in out of the way places in Asia, Africa or South America, there's always a sprinkling of Canadians, Aussies & Kiwis, Israelis, Dutch, Scandinavians, British people. It's way less common to meet people from the US, even though the US population out-strips those countries combined. I guess the no-vacation work culture prevents most people from going too far.

This is still true, but definitely less so than 10 and especially less so than 20 years ago. That's about how long I've been travelling/backpacking (still stay in hostels most of the time) and there's been a very noticeable uptick in the percentage of Americans I meet overseas as those 20 years have progressed. We still punch well below our weight in international travel as compared to Kiwis, Aussies, Germans, Brits, etc..., but that seems to be changing, at least based on my anecdotal experience.

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #222 on: April 26, 2019, 10:22:48 PM »
The premise of this thread seems to be the higher the number the better?  And that it is better/more fashionable to spend on "experiences" rather than "things"?

I'm probably at about 40 countries, including a round the world trip, but considering the environmental damage I was doing I'm not exactly proud of it these days.  I won't go anywhere now that I can't get to by train or ship.

You think because you were a passenger ona plane, you’re personally responsible for the damage to the environment? And only planes damage the environment and not other forms of transport? And somehow, your experiences traveling the world have been diminished because you were a passenger on planes?

nath

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #223 on: April 28, 2019, 05:04:56 AM »
Really don’t think the number of countries visited makes someone well travelled necessarily, as anybody can book a 14 day Contiki tour and visit 10 countries or more in Europe on 1 single holiday!
I once met someone like this and they thought they had seen everything!

That being said I think the actual true number of holidays taken and the various places you go makes someone well travelled.

Age 37 my list. Never went overseas before the age of 24. Will keep going back to all of these places throughout my life hopefully.
Australia (home)
Japan 12 times!
Hawaii 6 times!
North America x 1
Hong Kong x 4 times
U.K. x1
China x1
Macau x 1
Singapore x 5 times  (could have crossed over the border to Malaysia or Indonesia if I really wanted my passport stamped!)
Italy x 2
Vatican x1
Dubai UAE x 3 times
France Paris x 2
Switzerland x 1 ( was right near the German/ French /Austrian borders, for this pole should have got another stamp!



GetItRight

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #224 on: April 28, 2019, 09:27:52 AM »
I've been to one other country on a couple occasions, strictly for work. I would much prefer to spend my money on "stuff". The "stuff" I spend money on gives me all the experiences I want at a moments notice throughout the year. There is a high ROI on "stuff". "Stuff" holds it's value and can be sold for approximately the cost of acquiring it, occasionally sold at a higher price to turn a profit or at least pay for its maintenance and use over time.

"Experiences" on the other hand are very expensive one time use things, they have zero resale value. Going somewhere else can have novelty of seeing some different things but for the most part wherever you go there are the same things to do. I'd rather be at home on my own schedule having fun experiences with my own "stuff" (vs very expensive and less suitable rented "stuff", or waiting to get home to do the things I enjoy), and enjoying those experiences with friends and family vs alone or with people I don't know and will likely never see again.

desk_jockey

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #225 on: April 28, 2019, 11:23:46 AM »
The railway pass is still there, right? Although I'm not sure if it's still as affordable. I still used it a couple years ago, but only the 2 week one and visited 3 countries at that time.

It is, but more expensive/much more restricted. I know lots of university aged students in the UK and inter-railing is not a thing any more. There are far fewer international sleeper trains these days, competition from budget airlines I guess. We've just booked a train trip from the UK to Slovenia, via Switzerland & Venice, but it's not a cheap option.

The Eurorail passes could be competitively priced for traveling longer distances in 2nd class in a capital city to capital style trip with a few days of travel over a month.   For shorter distances it is not pricing competitive.

As you mention, for longer distances the low-cost airline are beating trains in popularity.   For shorter distances, bus travel works well.  Check-out the bus network of these folks:  https://global.flixbus.com/bus-routes
 

crybaby

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #226 on: April 28, 2019, 05:33:26 PM »
I've been to one other country on a couple occasions, strictly for work. I would much prefer to spend my money on "stuff". The "stuff" I spend money on gives me all the experiences I want at a moments notice throughout the year. There is a high ROI on "stuff". "Stuff" holds it's value and can be sold for approximately the cost of acquiring it, occasionally sold at a higher price to turn a profit or at least pay for its maintenance and use over time.

"Experiences" on the other hand are very expensive one time use things, they have zero resale value. Going somewhere else can have novelty of seeing some different things but for the most part wherever you go there are the same things to do. I'd rather be at home on my own schedule having fun experiences with my own "stuff" (vs very expensive and less suitable rented "stuff", or waiting to get home to do the things I enjoy), and enjoying those experiences with friends and family vs alone or with people I don't know and will likely never see again.


Would you sould sell your memories? Would you sell the knowledge, the insights you bring from a new country, a new culture, a new language?

Whats the ROI of a breathtaking view? Whats the ROI of seeing the Pope in person for example? Or being in a place that you read about in your history book? Whats the ROI of seeing the news and having a smile on your face because you remember your stay there?

Why would you go in vacations "alone or with people you dont know"?

deborah

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #227 on: April 28, 2019, 05:55:27 PM »
I have performed for the pope in my home town. In a football stadium, and at the end, he went slowly around the arena in the back of a ute. As the performers were spaced equidistantly around the edge of the arena, we could all touch hands with him.

crybaby

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #228 on: April 29, 2019, 04:48:50 PM »
I have performed for the pope in my home town. In a football stadium, and at the end, he went slowly around the arena in the back of a ute. As the performers were spaced equidistantly around the edge of the arena, we could all touch hands with him.


Great. I dont know if you are a religious person, but for what amount would you sell that experience?

GetItRight

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #229 on: April 29, 2019, 05:09:39 PM »
Would you sould sell your memories? Would you sell the knowledge, the insights you bring from a new country, a new culture, a new language?

Whats the ROI of a breathtaking view? Whats the ROI of seeing the Pope in person for example? Or being in a place that you read about in your history book? Whats the ROI of seeing the news and having a smile on your face because you remember your stay there?

Why would you go in vacations "alone or with people you dont know"?

I would not sell my memories, but my cherished memories are of doing things with people. any insights or knowledge from traveling to a new country, culture, or learning a new language just to go somewhere and see a sight is of little value to me. It's a very high cost for a one shot deal.

The ROI on such things is zero. Spending a bunch of time and money that I could put towards FI has a measurable ROI. Putting it toward something active that I enjoy gives me happiness. I have the entire internet at my fingertips, I can see most any breathtaking view I want with a quick search. When I do travel any new place, usually for work, I try to go see or do something new when I have time for it but I rarely bother with pictures anymore. I used to take lots of pictures but found it took me away from enjoying the moment and the experience. Thousands of others have taken the same pictures and I can look them up to jog that memory. Even then though, going to see anythign while away for work is at best just a way to make the best of the time away from being active doing what I'd rather be doing.

I suppose that's the thing, I don't view such travel as a "vacation". I see it as a lot of work and expense to take me away from being active doing things I enjoy. The people I spend time with are mostly the type to enjoy being active doing things, not spending a bunch of time and money to not do things and just take in the sights. I'd rather spend my discretionary money on "stuff" that lets me do those things I enjoy any time I want, with people I know and care about.

crybaby

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #230 on: April 29, 2019, 05:48:29 PM »
I have the entire internet at my fingertips, I can see most any breathtaking view I want with a quick search.


Well, we cant all like cheese.

You lost me when you said "I can see most any breathtaking view I want with a quick search."

Couldnt disagree more, being in a place, feeling it, smelling it, touching it, exploring it, hearing it or looking at a screen is not even comparable.

Its like being live in the Superbowl or seeing a picture of it in the Internet.

And you can take the people you know and care in the trip... there isnt at least a trip that you'll give a positive ROI?

We agree on disagreing, no problem.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 05:58:50 PM by crybaby »

deborah

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #231 on: April 30, 2019, 01:21:21 AM »
I have performed for the pope in my home town. In a football stadium, and at the end, he went slowly around the arena in the back of a ute. As the performers were spaced equidistantly around the edge of the arena, we could all touch hands with him.


Great. I dont know if you are a religious person, but for what amount would you sell that experience?

No. It happened by accident - more or less - our group were rung up out of the blue and asked to perform there. It was nice to do, but seeing the pope, in person, wasn’t anything I would ever have thought of doing, and it would never have been a bucket list item. The other performers were so hyped up - the most I’ve ever seen people hyped up. The atmosphere backstage was amazing! And, of course, the stadium was absolutely full, and we were in the middle (probably no one was really interested in us, they just wanted the pope). One of the people I worked with was there, and he was telling everyone about it the next day. He was shocked that I was there too, and really envious that I’d been so close to the pope, when he’d been in the middle of the crowd.

Walking out again and standing around the arena after the performance was something we hadn’t been told about, so it was quite a surprise, especially when the pope did a circuit. The other performers were absolutely wild with delight that it happened and they were so close to him. It also enabled us to all see the whole service, and that’s an experience I’ll never have again.

There are many things unplanned that happen in life, and some of them are the most memorable. When we performed for the Queen, we all knew it was going to happen, and we worked hard for years to make it happen. We traveled to the UK for that.

We were going to perform for Prince Charles and Lady Diana in our hometown, but at the last minute, she decided to attend a different  event, so we didn’t. It was very like the event for the pope - we had very little notice - but it didn’t work out the way the organisers wanted it to. You win some, you lose some. I don’t remember being upset that they failed to show up. And we were a small amateur group, so looking back, I’m surprised at what we actually did. The experiences we had were amazing. Looking back as a very ordinary person it’s the sum of the experiences as a group that I remember, and that is something I would never sell. But the one experience with the pope is something I forget about until someone says something, like you did, about visiting the pope.

But when we were in the UK, the first time I saw my flag flying, and realised that it was flying because I was representing my country - that is something I would never sell. It’s something I never thought an ordinary person like me could do.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 01:27:14 AM by deborah »

mveill1

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #232 on: April 30, 2019, 10:48:07 AM »
Canada
USA
Ecuador
Argentina
Brazil
St Lucia
Barbados
Ireland
UK (all parts!)
France
Belgium
Netherlands
Denmark
Germany
Austria
Czech
Norway
Sweden
Finland
Estonia
Latvia
Croatia
Slovenia
Italy
Switzerland
Hungary
Spain
Portugal
Turkey
Greece
Bulgaria
Morocco
South Africa
Japan (only airport does that count)
Thailand
Singapore
Malaysia
Indonesia
Australia

GetItRight

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #233 on: April 30, 2019, 12:46:28 PM »
I have the entire internet at my fingertips, I can see most any breathtaking view I want with a quick search.


Well, we cant all like cheese.

You lost me when you said "I can see most any breathtaking view I want with a quick search."

Couldnt disagree more, being in a place, feeling it, smelling it, touching it, exploring it, hearing it or looking at a screen is not even comparable.

Its like being live in the Superbowl or seeing a picture of it in the Internet.

And you can take the people you know and care in the trip... there isnt at least a trip that you'll give a positive ROI?

We agree on disagreing, no problem.

It's not the same  as being there, but I cannot justify the cost both financial and in time that could be better spent being productive or doing things I enjoy, just to see something nifty.

Taking people on trips costs more money, and takes more time planning logistics and making sure everyone is where they need to be when they need to be there. No thanks, that's a lot of work to make an already not particularly enjoyable experience for me even less enjoyable. There is no ROI on a trip, unless perhaps it's a business trip but the company pays for those and it's just part of the job. Maybe there could be an ROI if I'm traveling for my own side income purposes, but I don't do that and I already have ways to earn income at home.

I think you're looking at travel vs stuff from the wrong angle, as neither is generating income in a typical scenario in which most here would spend fun money on. Granted some of my stuff does earn income with how I use it, it's just covering part of the cost of using the stuff with friends. There is still never ROI. A better way of looking at travel vs stuff is amortizing the cost over the time the travel or stuff is used. Travel costs may be amortized over days or weeks typically. Stuff is amortized over years or decades and can last the rest of your life, or for additional information can be amortized over the number of days or hours the stuff is used. A better value for sure in any way I can think of to quantify it.

This of course does not take into effect that some people enjoy more passive activities while traveling to new places and not enjoy being active doing things that require stuff to do. Different strokes for different folks, we are all individuals with varying preferences.

SaucyAussie

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #234 on: April 30, 2019, 12:56:44 PM »
I'm a little thin on the international travel but I plan to hit my 50th US state next year.

Australia,
New Zealand,
Canada,
Mexico,
England,
Ireland.

PoutineLover

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #235 on: April 30, 2019, 01:16:52 PM »
I don't travel to get a monetary return on investment, and I don't think that's why most people go on trips. There is no financial ROI on meeting relatives in the home country of your grandparents, or of performing in an international festival, or seeing coral reefs and stingrays and sea turtles up close, or climbing a pyramid, or trying to navigate a foreign city when you don't speak the language and don't know anyone, or eating a local delicacy, but all of those experiences are invaluable to me and they never would have happened if I just stayed home.
I can't think of a single thing that I would buy that could come close to matching the enjoyment I've gotten out of travel. Pictures don't even come close to being somewhere in person. Sure, it's not for everyone, and I believe in saving up for trips and staying within your means to travel, but to me every single place I've gone has allowed me to create lasting memories with people I love and strangers I've bonded with, that can never be taken away from me. There are plenty of enjoyable things to do at home too, but there's something special about travel so it will always be a priority for me. It's not the number of countries that matters, it's how you experience them.

Proletariat

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #236 on: April 30, 2019, 01:42:59 PM »
I've been to one other country on a couple occasions, strictly for work. I would much prefer to spend my money on "stuff". The "stuff" I spend money on gives me all the experiences I want at a moments notice throughout the year. There is a high ROI on "stuff". "Stuff" holds it's value and can be sold for approximately the cost of acquiring it, occasionally sold at a higher price to turn a profit or at least pay for its maintenance and use over time.

"Experiences" on the other hand are very expensive one time use things, they have zero resale value. Going somewhere else can have novelty of seeing some different things but for the most part wherever you go there are the same things to do. I'd rather be at home on my own schedule having fun experiences with my own "stuff" (vs very expensive and less suitable rented "stuff", or waiting to get home to do the things I enjoy), and enjoying those experiences with friends and family vs alone or with people I don't know and will likely never see again.

Humans are emotional beings. Emotions may have zero resale value but nonetheless, they're valuable.

There are only so many "stuffs" you can acquire. Yes I enjoy driving sports cars or motorcycles or living in nice places or sleeping in a nice bed and having a nice phone/computer but in general my money will only go so far to improve each of those categories. And then my money is spent. So then you have to look outward towards things that will bring happiness and growth. And for most people that is travel. If someone gets zero personal value out of 90% of physical objects then it's just that much more true for that person.

In general I will say that traveling just to tick off boxes which is maybe what this thread is suggesting (not sure) is probably fairly un-Mustachian. A better thread to determine how "well-traveled" you are might be to discuss your best or most mind-blowing travel experience. Then again that might turn into a pissing contest as well.

And in general the less your income and less your progress towards FI, the less travel is going to do ANYTHING to help that and in that situation I would say that yes maybe buying stuff that holds its value might be a better use of your money. But once you get lots of income and decent savings, I would say travel is the #1 thing you can spend your money on to enjoy life.

Personally, the thought of slow-traveling when I'm older with the right person is what keeps me going. I am not the type to want to settle down and build a typical life and I never will be. I want to make my money then become a world citizen with a home base.

Villanelle

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #237 on: April 30, 2019, 02:42:11 PM »
I have the entire internet at my fingertips, I can see most any breathtaking view I want with a quick search.


Well, we cant all like cheese.

You lost me when you said "I can see most any breathtaking view I want with a quick search."

Couldnt disagree more, being in a place, feeling it, smelling it, touching it, exploring it, hearing it or looking at a screen is not even comparable.

Its like being live in the Superbowl or seeing a picture of it in the Internet.

And you can take the people you know and care in the trip... there isnt at least a trip that you'll give a positive ROI?

We agree on disagreing, no problem.

It's not the same  as being there, but I cannot justify the cost both financial and in time that could be better spent being productive or doing things I enjoy, just to see something nifty.

Taking people on trips costs more money, and takes more time planning logistics and making sure everyone is where they need to be when they need to be there. No thanks, that's a lot of work to make an already not particularly enjoyable experience for me even less enjoyable. There is no ROI on a trip, unless perhaps it's a business trip but the company pays for those and it's just part of the job. Maybe there could be an ROI if I'm traveling for my own side income purposes, but I don't do that and I already have ways to earn income at home.

I think you're looking at travel vs stuff from the wrong angle, as neither is generating income in a typical scenario in which most here would spend fun money on. Granted some of my stuff does earn income with how I use it, it's just covering part of the cost of using the stuff with friends. There is still never ROI. A better way of looking at travel vs stuff is amortizing the cost over the time the travel or stuff is used. Travel costs may be amortized over days or weeks typically. Stuff is amortized over years or decades and can last the rest of your life, or for additional information can be amortized over the number of days or hours the stuff is used. A better value for sure in any way I can think of to quantify it.

This of course does not take into effect that some people enjoy more passive activities while traveling to new places and not enjoy being active doing things that require stuff to do. Different strokes for different folks, we are all individuals with varying preferences.

Look, if you don't like or value travel, cool.  I truly don't care; different people like different things.  But the bolded is wholly inaccurate *for me* and for how I experience travel.  I'm "using" the travel when I'm in Rome for 5 days, yes.  But its usefulness extends well beyond that.  I "use" that when I look back on the memories and smile.  I "use" my trip to South Africa with great friends when we reminisce about it, or even when I see a picture of a lion and recall the laughs we had we we were late leaving the park because there was a pride of lions blocking the road.  You don't only "use" an experience, if it's done well, for the time you are actually experiencing it.  My trip to Scotland started giving me "experiences" even before I went because researching it was such a joy for me. 

For someone who doesn't experience experiences that way, I can see why they not only make little financial sense, but why they aren't especially enjoyable anyway.  But for those who experience travel more like I do, it is not at all like you describe here.  The trip is "used" for more time than just the week you are in Hawaii. 

GetItRight

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #238 on: April 30, 2019, 08:02:22 PM »
Villanelle, that's an interesting perspective, thanks for sharing.

Hirondelle

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #239 on: May 01, 2019, 12:03:18 AM »

I suppose that's the thing, I don't view such travel as a "vacation". I see it as a lot of work and expense to take me away from being active doing things I enjoy. The people I spend time with are mostly the type to enjoy being active doing things, not spending a bunch of time and money to not do things and just take in the sights. I'd rather spend my discretionary money on "stuff" that lets me do those things I enjoy any time I want, with people I know and care about.

@GetItRight I was wondering about this statement that you made. You've said a few similar things in other posts. To me it sounds like you equate the things you like doing as "active" and "requiring stuff" while you somehow equate travel/tourism to "passive" and "taking in sights". I wonder what kind of activities you talk about that require stuff and how/why you see travel as a passive activity?

To offer a perspective; To me, travel mostly IS getting active rather than soaking in sights (often a combination of both). When I travel to areas with mountains (highest peak in my country is 325m or so) I can go hiking or skiing. If I go to oceanside places I might go surfing or snorkeling or diving. To me this sounds all but passive. For some of those activities I have/can bring my own 'stuff' (goggles, hiking shoes), for some I rent it on the spot (surf board, diving equipment).

As so many of my trips are actually focussed on being active I really wondered how you got to the comparison of active/stuff vs not-active/travel.

wenchsenior

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #240 on: May 01, 2019, 09:14:45 AM »

I suppose that's the thing, I don't view such travel as a "vacation". I see it as a lot of work and expense to take me away from being active doing things I enjoy. The people I spend time with are mostly the type to enjoy being active doing things, not spending a bunch of time and money to not do things and just take in the sights. I'd rather spend my discretionary money on "stuff" that lets me do those things I enjoy any time I want, with people I know and care about.

@GetItRight I was wondering about this statement that you made. You've said a few similar things in other posts. To me it sounds like you equate the things you like doing as "active" and "requiring stuff" while you somehow equate travel/tourism to "passive" and "taking in sights". I wonder what kind of activities you talk about that require stuff and how/why you see travel as a passive activity?

To offer a perspective; To me, travel mostly IS getting active rather than soaking in sights (often a combination of both). When I travel to areas with mountains (highest peak in my country is 325m or so) I can go hiking or skiing. If I go to oceanside places I might go surfing or snorkeling or diving. To me this sounds all but passive. For some of those activities I have/can bring my own 'stuff' (goggles, hiking shoes), for some I rent it on the spot (surf board, diving equipment).

As so many of my trips are actually focussed on being active I really wondered how you got to the comparison of active/stuff vs not-active/travel.
All of my travel is like yours - to go somewhere interesting to do physically active things (hike, bike, climb, kayak, etc...) while also seeing some amazing sites at the same time. And for the most part its cheap and hassle free for me. However I think a large part of society equate "travel" and "vacation" with sedentary activities. Lying on a beach or by the pool at a resort, getting driven around by a tour bus to ogle the sites, dining and dining and dining, etc.  That's not the case of course, or doesn't have to be, and a vacation or travel can be as simple and cheap as backpacking for a couple of weeks in a interesting and challenging new area.

Agree.  I'm also finding the 'active vs passive' distinction puzzling.

When I was a little kid at the mercy of other peoples' travel plans, I did take a number of road trips that mostly involved looking out car windows and stopping briefly at a succession of scenic sites, which was fine at the time.  But once I was out traveling on my own, that all changed.

I don't automatically equate 'travel' with 'vacation.'  Nor do I necessarily equate 'relaxing' with 'passive.'  As I noted in a previous post, much of my travel has been work-related, as in actually doing biological field work outdoors.  That's incredibly fulfilling, but it is ANYTHING but passive or relaxing.  In the many many many months that I've spent in the Caribbean, I've probably spent the equivalent of 48 total hours 'at the beach', either sitting on the beach or even in/on the water (and I don't regard swimming/snorkeling, etc. as 'passive' either).

Interestingly, there's a lot of sociological research into components of happiness,  which indicates that experiences, not stuff, increase happiness for the majority of people.  However, I would assume 'stuff' gets murky b/c you need some stuff to do some activities and have some experiences.  But the general research shows that e.g., spending money on actively doing things gives much longer term happiness and satisfaction than e.g., buying more clothes/furniture, etc.

Personally, it took me a long time to recognize that the periods in my life where I had the least 'stuff' (essentially when I was living in a studio or out of backpacks) were by far the times that I was the happiest overall.  I've been wondering how the hell I accumulated a house and SO MUCH STUFF over the past couple decades, and am seriously working on downsizing and trying to go back to minimalism in the second half of my life. 




jlcnuke

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #241 on: May 01, 2019, 10:19:38 AM »
I don't count crossing the border to Canada for a night to go drinking as visiting Canada, so I leave that one off my list. Other than that, my first international trip was to the Dominican Republic back in 2012 or 2013. Then, in 2017 I got the itch to travel. Since then I've been to Aruba, the Bahamas twice (heading there for a third time later this month), Mexico twice, Grenada, and Antigua. I'll be in Grand Cayman in September as well.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 08:21:31 AM by jlcnuke »

FiguringItOut

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #242 on: May 01, 2019, 02:31:41 PM »
Here's my list. 
After I put it together and now looking at it, it feels small and limited. 

USA   
Canada   
Mexico (multiple times)   
Cruise ports, most visited multiple times   
   Bahamas
   Cayman Islands
   Jamaica
   Haiti
   Turks and Caicos
   Donimican Republic
   British Virgin Islands
   Dominica
   Puerto Rico
   Martinique
   Barbados
   Antigua and Barbuda
England (many times, London probably 10+ times, all but 2 were business trips)   
France (3 times)   
Belgium (2 times)   
Netherlands (2 times)   
Germany (2 times)   
Iceland (2 times)   
Thailand (business trip)   
Philipines (business trip)   
Russia   
Ukraine   
Latvia   
Estonia   
Lithuania   
Italy   
Austria   
July trip coming up will include Argentina and Chile with 1-day crossovers to Brazil and Uruguay

crybaby

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #243 on: May 01, 2019, 05:29:32 PM »
I'm not well traveled at all. My parents never took me anywhere as a kid. I would rarely go out of state for a weekend or something, in a neighboring state and travel by car or train. Since I started dating my fiancée, we've been traveling more.

I live in the United States and I've never left the country. I've lived in Connecticut all my life. The only other states I've been to are Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New York, New Jersey, New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine (basically all of New England) and Missouri. We went to Missouri last January to attend a wedding. That was the first time I had ever been on an airplane.

So, yeah like I said, pretty much the exact opposite of well traveled.


I kind of relate to that.

First 22 years of my life: 0 countries.
Then in 10 years I visited 14.

The traveling bug was inside of me and when I made the first trip, it awaken. Now I love to visit new places and even my parents, who never traveled, sometimes come with me and also love it.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 06:03:10 PM by crybaby »

crybaby

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #244 on: May 01, 2019, 05:38:30 PM »
I'm pretty amazed at how people afford all this travel. 

We can also be mustachian when traveling.

Choosing well the flights and fares, some AirBnB search, making some meals at home, making some visits by yourself instead of tours... I value more the places I visit than the appartment or a fancy meal. Otherwise, in 4* hotels and executive class, its difficult to see much of the world.

Dont know much about US, but in some countries of Europe and some parts of Asia, you can be traveling at a cost almost comparable at being at home and I'm not talking about camping or eating cans.

We are very fortunate to live nowadays, 50 years ago probably we would be debating going to 3 or 4 countries.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 06:36:19 PM by crybaby »

crybaby

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #245 on: May 01, 2019, 05:45:26 PM »
I have performed for the pope in my home town. In a football stadium, and at the end, he went slowly around the arena in the back of a ute. As the performers were spaced equidistantly around the edge of the arena, we could all touch hands with him.


Great. I dont know if you are a religious person, but for what amount would you sell that experience?

No. It happened by accident - more or less - our group were rung up out of the blue and asked to perform there. It was nice to do, but seeing the pope, in person, wasn’t anything I would ever have thought of doing, and it would never have been a bucket list item. The other performers were so hyped up - the most I’ve ever seen people hyped up. The atmosphere backstage was amazing! And, of course, the stadium was absolutely full, and we were in the middle (probably no one was really interested in us, they just wanted the pope). One of the people I worked with was there, and he was telling everyone about it the next day. He was shocked that I was there too, and really envious that I’d been so close to the pope, when he’d been in the middle of the crowd.

Walking out again and standing around the arena after the performance was something we hadn’t been told about, so it was quite a surprise, especially when the pope did a circuit. The other performers were absolutely wild with delight that it happened and they were so close to him. It also enabled us to all see the whole service, and that’s an experience I’ll never have again.

There are many things unplanned that happen in life, and some of them are the most memorable. When we performed for the Queen, we all knew it was going to happen, and we worked hard for years to make it happen. We traveled to the UK for that.

We were going to perform for Prince Charles and Lady Diana in our hometown, but at the last minute, she decided to attend a different  event, so we didn’t. It was very like the event for the pope - we had very little notice - but it didn’t work out the way the organisers wanted it to. You win some, you lose some. I don’t remember being upset that they failed to show up. And we were a small amateur group, so looking back, I’m surprised at what we actually did. The experiences we had were amazing. Looking back as a very ordinary person it’s the sum of the experiences as a group that I remember, and that is something I would never sell. But the one experience with the pope is something I forget about until someone says something, like you did, about visiting the pope.

But when we were in the UK, the first time I saw my flag flying, and realised that it was flying because I was representing my country - that is something I would never sell. It’s something I never thought an ordinary person like me could do.


Thanks for sharing, great story!

crybaby

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #246 on: May 01, 2019, 05:49:41 PM »
I don't travel to get a monetary return on investment, and I don't think that's why most people go on trips. There is no financial ROI on meeting relatives in the home country of your grandparents, or of performing in an international festival, or seeing coral reefs and stingrays and sea turtles up close, or climbing a pyramid, or trying to navigate a foreign city when you don't speak the language and don't know anyone, or eating a local delicacy, but all of those experiences are invaluable to me and they never would have happened if I just stayed home.
I can't think of a single thing that I would buy that could come close to matching the enjoyment I've gotten out of travel. Pictures don't even come close to being somewhere in person. Sure, it's not for everyone, and I believe in saving up for trips and staying within your means to travel, but to me every single place I've gone has allowed me to create lasting memories with people I love and strangers I've bonded with, that can never be taken away from me. There are plenty of enjoyable things to do at home too, but there's something special about travel so it will always be a priority for me. It's not the number of countries that matters, it's how you experience them.


Thanks for putting my feels into words!

x2

crybaby

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #247 on: May 01, 2019, 05:52:31 PM »
Personally, the thought of slow-traveling when I'm older with the right person is what keeps me going. I am not the type to want to settle down and build a typical life and I never will be. I want to make my money then become a world citizen with a home base.


Sign me in.

crybaby

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #248 on: May 01, 2019, 06:01:15 PM »
All of my travel is like yours - to go somewhere interesting to do physically active things (hike, bike, climb, kayak, etc...) while also seeing some amazing sites at the same time. And for the most part its cheap and hassle free for me. However I think a large part of society equate "travel" and "vacation" with sedentary activities. Lying on a beach or by the pool at a resort, getting driven around by a tour bus to ogle the sites, dining and dining and dining, etc.  That's not the case of course, or doesn't have to be, and a vacation or travel can be as simple and cheap as backpacking for a couple of weeks in a interesting and challenging new area.


For me theres a big difference between being a tourist and a traveler.

I'm a traveler, meaning I like more to lose myself into small streets, local stores, calm sights, characteristic food and habits, feeling the culture than "just" get selfies in front of the Eiffel Tower.

couponvan

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Re: How well traveled are you?
« Reply #249 on: May 01, 2019, 06:48:45 PM »
Barely outside of CA until age 18 (Las Vegas/Oregon border was as far as it got)…..

Mexico X3 - college exchange program/Cancun/Puerta Vallarta
Costa Rica - 2nd college exchange
Canada X3
England/United Kingdom - X3
France
Andorra (that really shouldn't count - we only bought stamps)
Italy - X2
Spain - X2
Germany
Belgium
Netherlands
Greece (got pickpocketed in Athens - glad we didn't do this trip on our honeymoon)
Turkey
China (got shaken down on a rickshaw - with 3 kids in tow...still traveling)

49 of the 50 United States - and I am going to Alaska this summer to cross my final state off the US list.  YOLO vs FIRE.  The struggle is real.

There are so many more places I want to see and experience.  I better live a lot longer.