How Un Mustachian was I?

[Bucksandreds]

My Ford Fiesta was rattling when over 70mph, wouldn't always start on first try and had a blown AC. I drive 70 miles round trip daily. Yesterday I was offered $4000 off MSRP on a 2017 Hyundai Tucson SUV (I'm 6'3" and could barely fit in my car) with 25 miles on it. They are clearing out the 17s and I played 2 dealerships off each other. I paid $18,700 brand new and financed at 2.2% because I'd rather invest my money in the market and pay that rate. The 2015s with 35,000 miles are asking $15,000 plus on auto trader. It gets 30mpg highway (all I drive) and is 5 star safety rated (2 toddlers) short of moving by my work was I crazy to think that this was a decent decision? I could have spent maybe $5,000-$7,000 less to get a lightly used Honda Fit but i don't fit well in small cars and I absolutely have to have great reliability due to my job so couldn't get a clunker.

[obstinate]

I'm 6'5" and fit fine in small cars, so I think you may be overplaying that a little.

It's obviously not the worst decision you could have made, but also not the best. Depending on your financial situation, this might not make a big difference. But considering the distances you're driving, you would have been substantially better off with a hybrid vehicle. A Prius would have saved you a gallon of gas per day over the Hyundai. That's $500 per year on fuel alone. Probably would have cost less to insure and maintain too. Plus they tend to hold their value better than non-hybrid vehicles (again, owing to the reduced maintenance needs).

Even better would have been an electric, if your workplace has chargers. You could have had a low mileage 2013 Nissan Leaf for <$10k. That would have saved you a shit ton of money.

[mastrr]

I wouldn't qualify it as a mustachian purchase but would say it's a good buy from the personal information you listed. Nice job and enjoy your new car!

[GenXbiker]

Congrats on the good deal.  I bought by first new "new" car myself 11 years ago.  It was a little painful at the time to spend the dough (27K in 2017 dollars), but it's been 11 years now and no regrets.  I'm still driving it.

[bunchbikes]

I'm 6'5" and fit fine in small cars, so I think you may be overplaying that a little.

6'7" person here, I fit great in my 2005 honda civic, and I fit great in my 2009 nissan versa.

Calling BS on a 6'3"-er needing an SUV because you can't fit in small cars.

[Bucksandreds]

I'm 6'5" and fit fine in small cars, so I think you may be overplaying that a little.

6'7" person here, I fit great in my 2005 honda civic, and I fit great in my 2009 nissan versa.

Calling BS on a 6'3"-er needing an SUV because you can't fit in small cars.

Should have put it this way. The 80% of the time I'm driving by myself it's ok. My kids car seats, when occupied in the back seats, forced me to move my seat so far forward, I was squished.

[h82goslw]

Any time you post on this forum that you purchased a brand new car you're gonna get face punched.
If you're happy with the car then all is well. 

[Sibley]

Why do you live so far away from work? And there are 3 seats across in back - just don't put a car seat behind the driver's seat. Or have your wife drive.

But save all your paperwork on the Fiesta, there's a class action lawsuit about the transmission.

[Bucksandreds]

Why do you live so far away from work? And there are 3 seats across in back - just don't put a car seat behind the driver's seat. Or have your wife drive.

But save all your paperwork on the Fiesta, there's a class action lawsuit about the transmission.

I live in a suburb and commute 35 miles each way to the boondocks because it pays a lot more than other closer jobs.  You must not be aware of how little room there is in the Fiesta 2nd row. Anyone would be cramped with a car seat behind them and I'm talking about driving with 4 of us in the car.

[ketchup]

To be fair, I had a Fiesta has a rental car once, and the interior indeed seemed to somehow have even less space than a Geo Metro, Hyundai Accent, or Prius C (small cars I'm familiar with).

That said, I'd say you overcompensated.  And "absolutely have to have great reliability" is a silly excuse for a brand new car.  Statistically speaking, a 1-2 year old car will be the most reliable.  But even so, is a three year old car too unreliable?  Will you sell your car when it's three years old in the name of "needing" better reliability?  I exclusively drive what you would surely call "clunkers" and each car has stranded me due to "old car"-ness a whopping maximum of once per car (usually when it died, once when a clutch went out).

[SeaEhm]

Very unmustachian

You could have easily gone for one of these





Do you even think about your carbon foot print?  I bet it's larger than your shoe size!

[SeaEhm]

And why do people question this guy about fitting in a car or not.... 

OP: I'm 6'3 and am not comfortable in small cars.
Others: I'm ten feet tall and fit just fine in my Smart car. You should fit just fine too.

@OP - not once did you mention anything about assets, income, savings rate, how much your enjoy your job, professional outlook, etc. Therefore, one cannot truly tell you what type of decision you made.

Enjoy the new car and all that it has to offer!

[RobFIRE]

Well, sounds like it was a good price for that car, and financing at that rate with the cash invested will on average save you money.

However, a brand new SUV giving 30 MPG doesn't sound like the best choice for somebody driving 70 miles a day. A Nissan LEAF electric car can be bought in the US for a similar price (or less in some states depending on the tax rebates it seems) and would save you > $1000 a year in fuel ($1500 or so in fuel less $300 in electricity or so?). Or more simply a used Prius would surely save $500 or more per year in fuel while being cheaper and amongst the cars with the best reliability ratings.

[Sibley]

Why do you live so far away from work? And there are 3 seats across in back - just don't put a car seat behind the driver's seat. Or have your wife drive.

But save all your paperwork on the Fiesta, there's a class action lawsuit about the transmission.

I live in a suburb and commute 35 miles each way to the boondocks because it pays a lot more than other closer jobs.  You must not be aware of how little room there is in the Fiesta 2nd row. Anyone would be cramped with a car seat behind them and I'm talking about driving with 4 of us in the car.

I am quite familiar with the Fiesta. That's why I didn't get one. However, I was unclear in that I was referring to the new car is, not the Fiesta.

Plus, if you come on this forum and post that you're driving 70 miles per day, and just bought a SUV, you better expect criticism.

Move closer to work. Ride a bike.

[Clean Shaven]

OP - was that for a FWD or AWD Tucson? If AWD, I may need to go do some shopping...

[Rosy]

Hell, there is always a better deal somewhere:), mustachian or not, you got a really good deal.
Enjoy the space and pride of ownership in your new car.

[bunchbikes]

I'm 6'5" and fit fine in small cars, so I think you may be overplaying that a little.

6'7" person here, I fit great in my 2005 honda civic, and I fit great in my 2009 nissan versa.

Calling BS on a 6'3"-er needing an SUV because you can't fit in small cars.

Should have put it this way. The 80% of the time I'm driving by myself it's ok. My kids car seats, when occupied in the back seats, forced me to move my seat so far forward, I was squished.

I have 2 kids in the back.  Still calling bs on the need for an SUV for space.

[Cwadda]

Mustachianism is not all about saving money and getting a good deal.

It's also about being good stewards of the Earth. Hence, why biking is so encouraged. Also, why it's better to buy used items that would otherwise end up in a landfill.

I'm also 6'3", and fit fine in my sedan. An SUV totally isn't necessary. In your situation, I definitely would've looked into a hatchback.

[mathlete]

If it got you something that you highly value, (reliability, more leg room, working AC) and it didn't compromise any of your financial goals, I'd say you're fine.

The blog has some of the best advice you'll find on the Internet, but you gotta do you.

[mm1970]

I'm 6'5" and fit fine in small cars, so I think you may be overplaying that a little.

6'7" person here, I fit great in my 2005 honda civic, and I fit great in my 2009 nissan versa.

Calling BS on a 6'3"-er needing an SUV because you can't fit in small cars.

Should have put it this way. The 80% of the time I'm driving by myself it's ok. My kids car seats, when occupied in the back seats, forced me to move my seat so far forward, I was squished.

I have 2 kids in the back.  Still calling bs on the need for an SUV for space.

I think it's going to depend on the size of the backseat, the age of the kids, and type of carseat.

Many (most?) states require children who are 2 and under be in a rear facing carseat.  Many 2 year olds are upwards of 30 or 40 pounds.  A rear-facing seat large enough to hold such a toddler is not going to be small.

In a car with 2 kids in carseats, you are going to have to put one of them behind the driver.  That will likely require you to move the seat up if the seat is rear-facing.  I remember once riding in a small-ish car with a friend who had a rear-facing seat behind my seat.  My knees were quite literally on the dashboard.  And I'm 5'2.5".

Also, height varies - it can be in your torso or your legs.  My college boyfriend was 6'8", with >38" inseam.  He was all leg.  He had a Dodge Omni, but on long car trips would fold the entire seat back down horizontal (not safe, I know), and his "ensign-mobile" when he graduated was a minivan.

I have been in many small cars (it's all I've ever owned) that have roomy backseats.  I have been in other small cars (rentals, mostly), with very very small backseats.  So small that they rival airline seats for lack of legroom.

[Bucksandreds]

Hi all. Anyone questioning car seats and driving please rent a Fiesta for a day and get back to me. I'll even pay the rental fee for you (assuming it's 50 cents or less as that's all it'd be worth) I drove it 7 years (2011 model bought new in mid/late 2010). Bought it just for MPG as I was driving 55miles each way and didn't have kids. Now have two kids, moved 20 miles closer to this job. I make $155,000 but am not considering RE in the next 10 years. We're planning a third child and saving for 100% undergrad tuition in a 529 and will pay out of savings a large chunk of grad school, if they choose. I left dental school with $220,000 in debt (6.9% Fed loan interest rate) and am down to about $50,000 and will have that done in 1.5 years. Grad school debt starts you in such a big hole that FIRE takes longer. My job is in the prison system and probably has about 25% of the stress level of private practice but only pays about 75% of the salary. I am on 6+ weeks paid time off and work 4 days per week now. I'll probably drop down to 2-3 days per week in 6-7 years and work 1-2 days per week into my 60s. My previous car was a grand am that 3-4 times died on the interstate on my way to/from work. This Fiesta (about 10,000 miles less than what the grand am was at when it died) started showing bad signs (shaking, trouble starting). No charging station at work and 1-2 times per month drive to my inlaws after work for the weekend so would need at least 150-200 mile range on an electric. Hope this helps form a clearer picture.

Ps I've driven twice to-fro work now and averaged 32.4 mpg

[Bucksandreds]

OP - was that for a FWD or AWD Tucson? If AWD, I may need to go do some shopping...

Base model. You drive down icy mountaintops or something?

[runewell]

Hi all. Anyone questioning car seats and driving please rent a Fiesta for a day and get back to me. I'll even pay the rental fee for you (assuming it's 50 cents or less as that's all it'd be worth) I drove it 7 years (2011 model bought new in mid/late 2010). Bought it just for MPG as I was driving 55miles each way and didn't have kids. Now have two kids, moved 20 miles closer to this job. I make $155,000 but am not considering RE in the next 10 years. We're planning a third child and saving for 100% undergrad tuition in a 529 and will pay out of savings a large chunk of grad school, if they choose. I left dental school with $220,000 in debt (6.9% Fed loan interest rate) and am down to about $50,000 and will have that done in 1.5 years. Grad school debt starts you in such a big hole that FIRE takes longer. My job is in the prison system and probably has about 25% of the stress level of private practice but only pays about 75% of the salary. I am on 6+ weeks paid time off and work 4 days per week now. I'll probably drop down to 2-3 days per week in 6-7 years and work 1-2 days per week into my 60s. My previous car was a grand am that 3-4 times died on the interstate on my way to/from work. This Fiesta (about 10,000 miles less than what the grand am was at when it died) started showing bad signs (shaking, trouble starting). No charging station at work and 1-2 times per month drive to my inlaws after work for the weekend so would need at least 150-200 mile range on an electric. Hope this helps form a clearer picture.

Ps I've driven twice to-fro work now and averaged 32.4 mpg

Obviously you can afford the car, and probably don't want to be driving long distances with something unreliable.  Not sure why you need to bring the purchase to this forum to get approval. :)

[Clean Shaven]

OP - was that for a FWD or AWD Tucson? If AWD, I may need to go do some shopping...

Base model. You drive down icy mountaintops or something?

Yes, actually.

[Bucksandreds]

Hi all. Anyone questioning car seats and driving please rent a Fiesta for a day and get back to me. I'll even pay the rental fee for you (assuming it's 50 cents or less as that's all it'd be worth) I drove it 7 years (2011 model bought new in mid/late 2010). Bought it just for MPG as I was driving 55miles each way and didn't have kids. Now have two kids, moved 20 miles closer to this job. I make $155,000 but am not considering RE in the next 10 years. We're planning a third child and saving for 100% undergrad tuition in a 529 and will pay out of savings a large chunk of grad school, if they choose. I left dental school with $220,000 in debt (6.9% Fed loan interest rate) and am down to about $50,000 and will have that done in 1.5 years. Grad school debt starts you in such a big hole that FIRE takes longer. My job is in the prison system and probably has about 25% of the stress level of private practice but only pays about 75% of the salary. I am on 6+ weeks paid time off and work 4 days per week now. I'll probably drop down to 2-3 days per week in 6-7 years and work 1-2 days per week into my 60s. My previous car was a grand am that 3-4 times died on the interstate on my way to/from work. This Fiesta (about 10,000 miles less than what the grand am was at when it died) started showing bad signs (shaking, trouble starting). No charging station at work and 1-2 times per month drive to my inlaws after work for the weekend so would need at least 150-200 mile range on an electric. Hope this helps form a clearer picture.

Ps I've driven twice to-fro work now and averaged 32.4 mpg

Obviously you can afford the car, and probably don't want to be driving long distances with something unreliable.  Not sure why you need to bring the purchase to this forum to get approval. :)

I don't really care to get approval. I actually think, all things considered it's not totally unmustachian which I think is interesting because, the idea of a new SUV is typically one of the least mustachian things you could do. Paying what I paid at that interest rate for a vehicle that seems to get very decent mpg, comfortably fits car seats and passengers, is 5 star safety rated, has a 60,000 mile total warranty and 100,000 mile power train warranty, is imo fairly mustachean.  My point if this is that there is no mustachean box to fit into. The whole point imo is to maximize value of all purchases.

[Bucksandreds]

I'm 6'5" and fit fine in small cars, so I think you may be overplaying that a little.

6'7" person here, I fit great in my 2005 honda civic, and I fit great in my 2009 nissan versa.

Calling BS on a 6'3"-er needing an SUV because you can't fit in small cars.

Should have put it this way. The 80% of the time I'm driving by myself it's ok. My kids car seats, when occupied in the back seats, forced me to move my seat so far forward, I was squished.

I have 2 kids in the back.  Still calling bs on the need for an SUV for space.

I never claimed I needed an SUV. I claimed that the Fiesta is junk for hauling kids.

[BTDretire]

Looking back, we paid $11,000 for a 3 year old Toyota T-100 in the year 2000.
 That was probably face punch worthy, but 17 years later it is still driven daily.
It just turned over 101,000 miles. We average under 4000 miles a year.
 So maybe on reflection a face punch was undeserved.

[undercover]

Hi all. Anyone questioning car seats and driving please rent a Fiesta for a day and get back to me. I'll even pay the rental fee for you (assuming it's 50 cents or less as that's all it'd be worth) I drove it 7 years (2011 model bought new in mid/late 2010). Bought it just for MPG as I was driving 55miles each way and didn't have kids. Now have two kids, moved 20 miles closer to this job. I make $155,000 but am not considering RE in the next 10 years. We're planning a third child and saving for 100% undergrad tuition in a 529 and will pay out of savings a large chunk of grad school, if they choose. I left dental school with $220,000 in debt (6.9% Fed loan interest rate) and am down to about $50,000 and will have that done in 1.5 years. Grad school debt starts you in such a big hole that FIRE takes longer. My job is in the prison system and probably has about 25% of the stress level of private practice but only pays about 75% of the salary. I am on 6+ weeks paid time off and work 4 days per week now. I'll probably drop down to 2-3 days per week in 6-7 years and work 1-2 days per week into my 60s. My previous car was a grand am that 3-4 times died on the interstate on my way to/from work. This Fiesta (about 10,000 miles less than what the grand am was at when it died) started showing bad signs (shaking, trouble starting). No charging station at work and 1-2 times per month drive to my inlaws after work for the weekend so would need at least 150-200 mile range on an electric. Hope this helps form a clearer picture.

Ps I've driven twice to-fro work now and averaged 32.4 mpg

Obviously you can afford the car, and probably don't want to be driving long distances with something unreliable.  Not sure why you need to bring the purchase to this forum to get approval. :)

I don't really care to get approval. I actually think, all things considered it's not totally unmustachian which I think is interesting because, the idea of a new SUV is typically one of the least mustachian things you could do. Paying what I paid at that interest rate for a vehicle that seems to get very decent mpg, comfortably fits car seats and passengers, is 5 star safety rated, has a 60,000 mile total warranty and 100,000 mile power train warranty, is imo fairly mustachean.  My point if this is that there is no mustachean box to fit into. The whole point imo is to maximize value of all purchases.

What? (particularly the bolded). You clearly posted to get justification for buying a new car and the title literally asks whether it's a "mustachian" purchase or not.

Confusion aside, nothing wrong with your purchase. You definitely could do much worse. I mean, I definitely can't say anything. I've bought new vehicles (with no regret).

I think a new vehicle can easily be justified if:

A) you get exactly what you want and that satisfaction sticks for the duration of your ownership and you
B) drive it in a practical manner until the day it's worth hardly anything.

And of course you do get the use the full life out of the vehicle and you know exactly where it's been.

[DarkandStormy]

i don't fit well in small cars and I absolutely have to have great reliability due to my job so couldn't get a clunker.

I'm 6'2'' and my Prius-c is the roomiest car I've ever had.  Fits are a bit smaller for the driver, imo.  I guess it depends on how much of it is torso v.s. legs - for reference I'm a 34 inch inseam for pants.

Obviously you made the decision now, but for anyone reading who is 6'2'' or taller and worrying about subcompact cars - maybe check out a Prius-c if you're looking to save a bit of money on a regular Prius.  A slightly smaller engine and a little less cargo room in the trunk, but otherwise a very similar car.

[Bucksandreds]

Hi all. Anyone questioning car seats and driving please rent a Fiesta for a day and get back to me. I'll even pay the rental fee for you (assuming it's 50 cents or less as that's all it'd be worth) I drove it 7 years (2011 model bought new in mid/late 2010). Bought it just for MPG as I was driving 55miles each way and didn't have kids. Now have two kids, moved 20 miles closer to this job. I make $155,000 but am not considering RE in the next 10 years. We're planning a third child and saving for 100% undergrad tuition in a 529 and will pay out of savings a large chunk of grad school, if they choose. I left dental school with $220,000 in debt (6.9% Fed loan interest rate) and am down to about $50,000 and will have that done in 1.5 years. Grad school debt starts you in such a big hole that FIRE takes longer. My job is in the prison system and probably has about 25% of the stress level of private practice but only pays about 75% of the salary. I am on 6+ weeks paid time off and work 4 days per week now. I'll probably drop down to 2-3 days per week in 6-7 years and work 1-2 days per week into my 60s. My previous car was a grand am that 3-4 times died on the interstate on my way to/from work. This Fiesta (about 10,000 miles less than what the grand am was at when it died) started showing bad signs (shaking, trouble starting). No charging station at work and 1-2 times per month drive to my inlaws after work for the weekend so would need at least 150-200 mile range on an electric. Hope this helps form a clearer picture.

Ps I've driven twice to-fro work now and averaged 32.4 mpg

Obviously you can afford the car, and probably don't want to be driving long distances with something unreliable.  Not sure why you need to bring the purchase to this forum to get approval. :)

I don't really care to get approval. I actually think, all things considered it's not totally unmustachian which I think is interesting because, the idea of a new SUV is typically one of the least mustachian things you could do. Paying what I paid at that interest rate for a vehicle that seems to get very decent mpg, comfortably fits car seats and passengers, is 5 star safety rated, has a 60,000 mile total warranty and 100,000 mile power train warranty, is imo fairly mustachean.  My point if this is that there is no mustachean box to fit into. The whole point imo is to maximize value of all purchases.

What? (particularly the bolded). You clearly posted to get justification for buying a new car and the title literally asks whether it's a "mustachian" purchase or not.

Confusion aside, nothing wrong with your purchase. You definitely could do much worse. I mean, I definitely can't say anything. I've bought new vehicles (with no regret).

I think a new vehicle can easily be justified if:

A) you get exactly what you want and that satisfaction sticks for the duration of your ownership and you
B) drive it in a practical manner until the day it's worth hardly anything.

And of course you do get the use the full life out of the vehicle and you know exactly where it's been.

You disagree with the bolded?

[ketchup]

i don't fit well in small cars and I absolutely have to have great reliability due to my job so couldn't get a clunker.

I'm 6'2'' and my Prius-c is the roomiest car I've ever had.  Fits are a bit smaller for the driver, imo.  I guess it depends on how much of it is torso v.s. legs - for reference I'm a 34 inch inseam for pants.

Obviously you made the decision now, but for anyone reading who is 6'2'' or taller and worrying about subcompact cars - maybe check out a Prius-c if you're looking to save a bit of money on a regular Prius.  A slightly smaller engine and a little less cargo room in the trunk, but otherwise a very similar car.

Wow, just for an opposing DP I'm 5'11" with a 30 inch inseam and found a borrowed 2013 Prius C to be pretty cramped with bad visibility (especially rear).  But my 2009 Hyundai Accent was excellent.  YMMV indeed.  Always try for yourself.

[DarkandStormy]

i don't fit well in small cars and I absolutely have to have great reliability due to my job so couldn't get a clunker.

I'm 6'2'' and my Prius-c is the roomiest car I've ever had.  Fits are a bit smaller for the driver, imo.  I guess it depends on how much of it is torso v.s. legs - for reference I'm a 34 inch inseam for pants.

Obviously you made the decision now, but for anyone reading who is 6'2'' or taller and worrying about subcompact cars - maybe check out a Prius-c if you're looking to save a bit of money on a regular Prius.  A slightly smaller engine and a little less cargo room in the trunk, but otherwise a very similar car.

Wow, just for an opposing DP I'm 5'11" with a 30 inch inseam and found a borrowed 2013 Prius C to be pretty cramped with bad visibility (especially rear).  But my 2009 Hyundai Accent was excellent.  YMMV indeed.  Always try for yourself.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/toyota/prius-c/2013/specs/prius-c-5dr-hb-two-(natl)-356047

Specs don't line up with your experience - did you move the seat back?  The wheel?  Anyway, yeah it's not the best visibility and can feel cramped with cargo or people in the back.  But I have the seat all the way back and could easily fit if I was 6'5''.

[Dicey]

In answer to your specific question: not very un-mustachian at all, given your specifics. Carry on, good sir!
But take good care of your new steed so it can carry your kids to college.

[ketchup]

i don't fit well in small cars and I absolutely have to have great reliability due to my job so couldn't get a clunker.

I'm 6'2'' and my Prius-c is the roomiest car I've ever had.  Fits are a bit smaller for the driver, imo.  I guess it depends on how much of it is torso v.s. legs - for reference I'm a 34 inch inseam for pants.

Obviously you made the decision now, but for anyone reading who is 6'2'' or taller and worrying about subcompact cars - maybe check out a Prius-c if you're looking to save a bit of money on a regular Prius.  A slightly smaller engine and a little less cargo room in the trunk, but otherwise a very similar car.

Wow, just for an opposing DP I'm 5'11" with a 30 inch inseam and found a borrowed 2013 Prius C to be pretty cramped with bad visibility (especially rear).  But my 2009 Hyundai Accent was excellent.  YMMV indeed.  Always try for yourself.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/toyota/prius-c/2013/specs/prius-c-5dr-hb-two-(natl)-356047

Specs don't line up with your experience - did you move the seat back?  The wheel?  Anyway, yeah it's not the best visibility and can feel cramped with cargo or people in the back.  But I have the seat all the way back and could easily fit if I was 6'5''.

I drove the car pretty close to full time for about a month (was borrowing after our car died), so I played with it some.  Legroom wasn't the issue, it was more the headroom for me (and the related visibility).  Again, it was far from awful or unbearable, but I wasn't nearly as comfortable as in my '09 Accent or my '99 Metro I used to drive.  I think part of the problem too is that the car had a rearview camera as an option, so it was designed with that in mind, but the one I was driving didn't have that option so I got blindspots galore.

I otherwise liked the car, so I'm not just biased against it or anything.  My 5'4" girlfriend thought all my concerns were absurd, and visibility for her while driving was 100% fine.

[DarkandStormy]

I drove the car pretty close to full time for about a month (was borrowing after our car died), so I played with it some.  Legroom wasn't the issue, it was more the headroom for me (and the related visibility). 

Ahhh ok.  I thought you meant your knees were hitting the wheel and such.  Yeah, I guess my 6'2'' is more in my legs than torso.  It's not the best visibility vehicle I've ever driven - I don't have the bells and whistles of the camera, safety sense, etc. either.

Still, it's your cheapest option to get in a hybrid.  Everything I've read/researched so far it seems like a typical Toyota/Prius - low maintenance and high reliability.  I'm planning on driving mine for another 12 years or so (I bike to work, so I'm on pace for about 6k miles/year with a couple road trips and family visits).

[ketchup]

I drove the car pretty close to full time for about a month (was borrowing after our car died), so I played with it some.  Legroom wasn't the issue, it was more the headroom for me (and the related visibility). 

Ahhh ok.  I thought you meant your knees were hitting the wheel and such.  Yeah, I guess my 6'2'' is more in my legs than torso.  It's not the best visibility vehicle I've ever driven - I don't have the bells and whistles of the camera, safety sense, etc. either.

Still, it's your cheapest option to get in a hybrid.  Everything I've read/researched so far it seems like a typical Toyota/Prius - low maintenance and high reliability.  I'm planning on driving mine for another 12 years or so (I bike to work, so I'm on pace for about 6k miles/year with a couple road trips and family visits).

Oh definitely.  It's my SIL's car, and she's got it up to around 80k miles with no problems and very simple/low maintenance.  No belts of any kind, 105k spark plugs, and 10k oil changes means there's really not much to do to keep it going.  Should do 200-300k easily.

I do have a bit of long torso syndrome going on.  My dad has it worse.  He's fine in most compact cars, but most smaller SUVs are for some reason terrible for him.  He literally had to have his head at a 45 degree angle in order to fit into the driver's seat of a rental Hyundai Santa Fe (the rental company swapped it for something else after he demonstrated this, but I really don't think they believed him at first).  His choice of Tall Guy Car: Nissan Sentra.  I know a 6'4 guy with one too.

[daverobev]

Hmm maybe I need to adjust my biases.

Comparing a Tucson to a Camry, the fuel efficiency isn't actually that different on the highway.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=37541&id=36489&id=38061&id=37724

[MarioMario]

How is it possible to buy a car that only gets 30 mpg?  It is 2017 not 1995. 

Seriously that is terrible

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Bucksandreds]

How is it possible to buy a car that only gets 30 mpg?  It is 2017 not 1995. 

Seriously that is terrible

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

The average new car combined MPG is 24.8. The Tucson's is 26. It literally beats the average vehicle mpg and is an SUV. It also seems to (off of a small sample size) beat it's EPA highway estimate. For someone who just needs a commuter car for 1-2 people this would be a horrible mpg choice. For a family, I'm not sure that the facts boost your opinion.

[daverobev]

OP, you don't seem to be here for advice, I don't get the purpose of the thread.

Your purchase was not mustachian (a ten year old Vibe or Matrix, or moving closer to work, etc would have been). SUVs tend not to be mustachian (higher maintenance costs most likely, due to heavier weight vs a... Vibe or Matrix... leading to larger brakes, tires and so on, which are more expensive).

You have a very high income. You can spend your money as you please. Yes, there are degrees of mustachianism (and honestly, I'm kind've over calling it that; it's common sense frugality). No, you didn't buy a 'gas guzzler', you did as I myself did - bought end of model year clear out new cars, because you wanted to and got a good price.

I would not say buying new cars - including in my own case - is mustachian. It came out that, for me, buying new meant a lot of things that may or may not be worth the money: But primarily, living in Canada, I detest rust; and anyone that leases doesn't undercoat their car. So you can either get something a few years old and hope it's been looked after, or something old and know it'll only last a few years before the wheel wells have holes in them... or you can buy new, and hope to keep for a long time (and undercoat).

And yes, I'm 'making excuses' for my own behaviour. And no, in the light of day, it wasn't the smartest set of purchases, at least on my vehicle... in some ways.

You spent just over 10% of your yearly income on a vehicle that will give you, fingers crossed, little to no trouble for five years. It's cool. But it's not mustachian. It's not frugal. It's "I got a good deal on something" vs "I paid $5k for something that will work for a good while, is solid, in cash, and gets 35+mpg while still doing what I need".

Nobody on a mainstream site would criticize you - they might even ask why you are buying base model vehicles with your income. I'm not criticizing your purchase. But your tone in this thread is relly belligerent.

You asked a question. You got feedback. Now you're arguing with everyone.

(We had a Civic for a number of years, and it was shit with a car seat in the back, facing either way - and that's bigger than a Fiesta).

I'm surprised your car is dying after 7 years, but then I HAVE heard bad things about North American Fiestas. In the UK, they are pretty ubiquitous.

[obstinate]

How is it possible to buy a car that only gets 30 mpg?  It is 2017 not 1995. 

Seriously that is terrible

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

The average new car combined MPG is 24.8. The Tucson's is 26. It literally beats the average vehicle mpg and is an SUV. It also seems to (off of a small sample size) beat it's EPA highway estimate. For someone who just needs a commuter car for 1-2 people this would be a horrible mpg choice. For a family, I'm not sure that the facts boost your opinion.

So you did slightly better on fuel economy than the average American. Do you want someone to pat you on the back for being slightly better than the typical American (the most wasteful subspecies of homo sapiens on the planet)?

Have another face punch.

55th percentile is nothing to be proud of. You can afford it. It's not going to set back your retirement plans too much. That's all you get. It's not Mustachian.

[Bicycle_B]

If you had gotten a gas-sipping Scion, like the one my 6'4" friend bought because it's so good for tall people, I would personally have awarded a Mustache.  If it was bought used for under 7k. 

Tough crowd, huh?

[Bucksandreds]

OP, you don't seem to be here for advice, I don't get the purpose of the thread.

Your purchase was not mustachian (a ten year old Vibe or Matrix, or moving closer to work, etc would have been). SUVs tend not to be mustachian (higher maintenance costs most likely, due to heavier weight vs a... Vibe or Matrix... leading to larger brakes, tires and so on, which are more expensive).

You have a very high income. You can spend your money as you please. Yes, there are degrees of mustachianism (and honestly, I'm kind've over calling it that; it's common sense frugality). No, you didn't buy a 'gas guzzler', you did as I myself did - bought end of model year clear out new cars, because you wanted to and got a good price.

I would not say buying new cars - including in my own case - is mustachian. It came out that, for me, buying new meant a lot of things that may or may not be worth the money: But primarily, living in Canada, I detest rust; and anyone that leases doesn't undercoat their car. So you can either get something a few years old and hope it's been looked after, or something old and know it'll only last a few years before the wheel wells have holes in them... or you can buy new, and hope to keep for a long time (and undercoat).

And yes, I'm 'making excuses' for my own behaviour. And no, in the light of day, it wasn't the smartest set of purchases, at least on my vehicle... in some ways.

You spent just over 10% of your yearly income on a vehicle that will give you, fingers crossed, little to no trouble for five years. It's cool. But it's not mustachian. It's not frugal. It's "I got a good deal on something" vs "I paid $5k for something that will work for a good while, is solid, in cash, and gets 35+mpg while still doing what I need".

Nobody on a mainstream site would criticize you - they might even ask why you are buying base model vehicles with your income. I'm not criticizing your purchase. But your tone in this thread is relly belligerent.

You asked a question. You got feedback. Now you're arguing with everyone.

(We had a Civic for a number of years, and it was shit with a car seat in the back, facing either way - and that's bigger than a Fiesta).

I'm surprised your car is dying after 7 years, but then I HAVE heard bad things about North American Fiestas. In the UK, they are pretty ubiquitous.

Really? I wanted to have a discussion about a purchase, because imo, some things that are generally considered 'un mustachian' on this website are actually decently frugal decisions. Belligerent? If you're not joking then you've never seen belligerent in your life.

[Bucksandreds]

How is it possible to buy a car that only gets 30 mpg?  It is 2017 not 1995. 

Seriously that is terrible

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

The average new car combined MPG is 24.8. The Tucson's is 26. It literally beats the average vehicle mpg and is an SUV. It also seems to (off of a small sample size) beat it's EPA highway estimate. For someone who just needs a commuter car for 1-2 people this would be a horrible mpg choice. For a family, I'm not sure that the facts boost your opinion.

So you did slightly better on fuel economy than the average American. Do you want someone to pat you on the back for being slightly better than the typical American (the most wasteful subspecies of homo sapiens on the planet)?

Have another face punch.

55th percentile is nothing to be proud of. You can afford it. It's not going to set back your retirement plans too much. That's all you get. It's not Mustachian.

Not patting myself on the back. The post I was responding to insinuated that only 1995 cars should get 30 mpg highway. I actually prefer the idea of electric. Just waiting for the value/range to be there. Ideally I will trade this in for a Model 3 in 5-7 years. I imagine by then the Model 3s (or another companies equivalent) will have come closer in price to gas cars and have very long ranges. In Ohio there are close to no charging stations so I'll have to do at home charge. We'll all have self driving electric cars soon enough. I wish it was like that already but we're going to have to wait a few years.

[inline five]

I think you made a good purchase. I think what will really determine that is what you get for it when you go to sell, and how much it costs you yearly in that regard.

At bare minimum, running an older car, hoping it doesn't strand you, you're talking around $50/month not including the time spent/lost to keep it going, or around $600/yr, paying others to work on it for you.

If deprecation on that car runs ~$1,000/yr, I'd say you probably come out ahead in that department, just because you take a huge risk off your plate.

It's kinda funny that a Leaf is even mentioned in this thread. Number one the batteries on them absolutely suck ass and you'd be lucky to get 45-50 miles of range out of them after a few years, if you're unlucky enough to not hit the warranty period on it you're out at least six grand on a new one. Number two they are the fastest depreciating car in the US running around $800/month in deprecation alone when bought new if needing the range of the newer models.

There are always cheaper ways to run things. I run a 23 year old car that I have done an incredible amount of work on personally, from swapping the dying transmission out to an evaporator (both 2-3 day jobs), radiator replacement, entire suspension replacement front and back (ran around $1,500 parts only with new tires), etc. and I bought another car just like it with a blown motor to rob parts off for almost nothing when I factor in what I got for it in scarp after robbing it. Oh and I drive only 3,000 miles a year. But I have sunk countless hours into it and hope and pray it doesn't leave me stranded at work or at home trying to get to work. It's actually kinda stupid of me to continue holding onto it right now but we are gearing up for another home purchase so I don't want to spend anything on another car.

As far as buying a cheapie $5k car you're just buying someone else's problem and what you don't lose on depreciation will hit you when you go to fix all the things that are busted on it. Higher mileage used cars seem good on paper until you realize that just a suspension rebuild will run several thousand if paying a shop to do it, and most suspensions are smoked by 100k-150k miles.

But to even pretend that most people are going to run cars like I do is ridiculous. I have however become addicted to the cheap running costs and as of yet (fingers crossed) in 14 years of ownership I haven't been left stranded.

[daverobev]

OP, you don't seem to be here for advice, I don't get the purpose of the thread.

Your purchase was not mustachian (a ten year old Vibe or Matrix, or moving closer to work, etc would have been). SUVs tend not to be mustachian (higher maintenance costs most likely, due to heavier weight vs a... Vibe or Matrix... leading to larger brakes, tires and so on, which are more expensive).

You have a very high income. You can spend your money as you please. Yes, there are degrees of mustachianism (and honestly, I'm kind've over calling it that; it's common sense frugality). No, you didn't buy a 'gas guzzler', you did as I myself did - bought end of model year clear out new cars, because you wanted to and got a good price.

I would not say buying new cars - including in my own case - is mustachian. It came out that, for me, buying new meant a lot of things that may or may not be worth the money: But primarily, living in Canada, I detest rust; and anyone that leases doesn't undercoat their car. So you can either get something a few years old and hope it's been looked after, or something old and know it'll only last a few years before the wheel wells have holes in them... or you can buy new, and hope to keep for a long time (and undercoat).

And yes, I'm 'making excuses' for my own behaviour. And no, in the light of day, it wasn't the smartest set of purchases, at least on my vehicle... in some ways.

You spent just over 10% of your yearly income on a vehicle that will give you, fingers crossed, little to no trouble for five years. It's cool. But it's not mustachian. It's not frugal. It's "I got a good deal on something" vs "I paid $5k for something that will work for a good while, is solid, in cash, and gets 35+mpg while still doing what I need".

Nobody on a mainstream site would criticize you - they might even ask why you are buying base model vehicles with your income. I'm not criticizing your purchase. But your tone in this thread is relly belligerent.

You asked a question. You got feedback. Now you're arguing with everyone.

(We had a Civic for a number of years, and it was shit with a car seat in the back, facing either way - and that's bigger than a Fiesta).

I'm surprised your car is dying after 7 years, but then I HAVE heard bad things about North American Fiestas. In the UK, they are pretty ubiquitous.

Really? I wanted to have a discussion about a purchase, because imo, some things that are generally considered 'un mustachian' on this website are actually decently frugal decisions. Belligerent? If you're not joking then you've never seen belligerent in your life.

Let me rephrase, then: antagonistic. You're telling anyone disagreeing with you they are wrong.

Discussion: You made a sub-optimal, non mustachian purchase. That's a fact. You could've got what you needed (transport, big enough so your knees aren't on the dash) considerably more cheaply. There's no min/max here. No frugality.

Did you do the *wrong* thing? There is no wrong thing, on an individual level. Your car isn't much worse from a pure fuel consumption perspective than a Camry, which is a decent family vehicle.

[inline five]

Let me rephrase, then: antagonistic. You're telling anyone disagreeing with you they are wrong.

Discussion: You made a sub-optimal, non mustachian purchase. That's a fact. You could've got what you needed (transport, big enough so your knees aren't on the dash) considerably more cheaply. There's no min/max here. No frugality.

Did you do the *wrong* thing? There is no wrong thing, on an individual level. Your car isn't much worse from a pure fuel consumption perspective than a Camry, which is a decent family vehicle.

I used to buy cars and repair them and sell them for more money in my younger years. I heard the same sob story time after time. "I bought this cheap car with cash so I wouldn't have a payment, it blew the transmission/headgasket/failed inspection and now it will cost more to fix than the car is worth". If I had a dime for every time I heard that I'd be a rich man.

Cost is something that has to be taken in context. You see this in car parts all the time. An off-brand timing chain tensioner can be had for say $70 vs. the name brand $140, yet the off-brand has numerous reports of pre-mature failure causing thousands in damage to internal engine components as pistons hit valves.

This guy didn't spend $18k on a car to use just six months, or a year, he bough it for long term use with a long term cost that will most likely rival his previous car or any "cheap" car, and in this day and age practically any used car. Used car prices are ridiculous and reflect a linear depreciation curve in most cases except for some oddballs like the aforementioned Nissan Leaf.

[daverobev]

Let me rephrase, then: antagonistic. You're telling anyone disagreeing with you they are wrong.

Discussion: You made a sub-optimal, non mustachian purchase. That's a fact. You could've got what you needed (transport, big enough so your knees aren't on the dash) considerably more cheaply. There's no min/max here. No frugality.

Did you do the *wrong* thing? There is no wrong thing, on an individual level. Your car isn't much worse from a pure fuel consumption perspective than a Camry, which is a decent family vehicle.

I used to buy cars and repair them and sell them for more money in my younger years. I heard the same sob story time after time. "I bought this cheap car with cash so I wouldn't have a payment, it blew the transmission/headgasket/failed inspection and now it will cost more to fix than the car is worth". If I had a dime for every time I heard that I'd be a rich man.

Cost is something that has to be taken in context. You see this in car parts all the time. An off-brand timing chain tensioner can be had for say $70 vs. the name brand $140, yet the off-brand has numerous reports of pre-mature failure causing thousands in damage to internal engine components as pistons hit valves.

This guy didn't spend $18k on a car to use just six months, or a year, he bough it for long term use with a long term cost that will most likely rival his previous car or any "cheap" car, and in this day and age practically any used car. Used car prices are ridiculous and reflect a linear depreciation curve in most cases except for some oddballs like the aforementioned Nissan Leaf.

Sure, and as I posted earlier, our household bought two.. count 'em... two new vehicles last year.

It was not mustachian. But life isn't *just* about being mustachian. Again; I didn't say OP was wrong to buy the car they did. It's not (too) terrible on fuel. Hyundai, as I have read elsewhere, is called the 'new Honda' - as in, 20 years ago a Honda was a cheap good car. Now Honda is living on its reputation (not that they don't make good cars, but they aren't cheap).

I did the rough analysis, based on the prices we paid, and as you say - buying newer but not new didn't make much sense; buying old means more time being serviced/fixed, some stuff not working, and a short lifetime (have to go through the whole rigmarole again in 3-5 years).

[SC93]

I'm 5'10 and not really comfortable in anything except a minivan. As for reliability, my 2001 $1300 Dodge minivan has been very reliable for the last 1.5 years. I saw a brand new Tahoe with dealer plates still on it burned to the ground on the side of the road yesterday. I don't think NEW has anything to do with reliability.

You mention investing your money instead of paying cash so I assume you could have paid cash which is good. That probably means if you really had to, you could get the money to pay it off ASAP if needed.

My questions are.... how many times will you live? What day and time are you going to die? If your answers are.... once for the first question and you can't answer the others, that means you better enjoy yourself while you're here cuz you never know when it will end.

[Bucksandreds]

Let me rephrase, then: antagonistic. You're telling anyone disagreeing with you they are wrong.

Discussion: You made a sub-optimal, non mustachian purchase. That's a fact. You could've got what you needed (transport, big enough so your knees aren't on the dash) considerably more cheaply. There's no min/max here. No frugality.

Did you do the *wrong* thing? There is no wrong thing, on an individual level. Your car isn't much worse from a pure fuel consumption perspective than a Camry, which is a decent family vehicle.

I used to buy cars and repair them and sell them for more money in my younger years. I heard the same sob story time after time. "I bought this cheap car with cash so I wouldn't have a payment, it blew the transmission/headgasket/failed inspection and now it will cost more to fix than the car is worth". If I had a dime for every time I heard that I'd be a rich man.

Cost is something that has to be taken in context. You see this in car parts all the time. An off-brand timing chain tensioner can be had for say $70 vs. the name brand $140, yet the off-brand has numerous reports of pre-mature failure causing thousands in damage to internal engine components as pistons hit valves.

This guy didn't spend $18k on a car to use just six months, or a year, he bough it for long term use with a long term cost that will most likely rival his previous car or any "cheap" car, and in this day and age practically any used car. Used car prices are ridiculous and reflect a linear depreciation curve in most cases except for some oddballs like the aforementioned Nissan Leaf.

Sure, and as I posted earlier, our household bought two.. count 'em... two new vehicles last year.

It was not mustachian. But life isn't *just* about being mustachian. Again; I didn't say OP was wrong to buy the car they did. It's not (too) terrible on fuel. Hyundai, as I have read elsewhere, is called the 'new Honda' - as in, 20 years ago a Honda was a cheap good car. Now Honda is living on its reputation (not that they don't make good cars, but they aren't cheap).

I did the rough analysis, based on the prices we paid, and as you say - buying newer but not new didn't make much sense; buying old means more time being serviced/fixed, some stuff not working, and a short lifetime (have to go through the whole rigmarole again in 3-5 years).

Again, this was the whole purpose of my OP. You are acting like I did it to start a fight. I did it to shed light on the fact that it has become semi doctrine here to create this neat little 'life choice box' that describes the exact type of purchase that everyone should make and I think that's BS. I think that one can buy a brand new SUV without giving up their frugality. I also think that you can get a nice relatively large home and be frugal.  Some here think that anything other than a tiny hatchback and 1000 sq ft home is wasteful and I completely disagree.