The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: MrsSpendyPants on June 03, 2020, 07:37:48 PM
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Spent $200 on a non-regular vet visit and it's driving me up the wall.
Dog's eye started getting puffy last week, called vet, earliest they could get me in was today. Went in today to say it was just overactive allergies and spent $85 on antibiotics which are $20 on Chewy, a cream for $29 that's $7 on Chewy, and probably way too much on a steroid as well, along with $48 for a five minute visit that the vet was thirty minutes late too.
My vet will not fax prescriptions so if I want to go to another pharmacy, I have to get a prescription and drive 20 minutes out of my way to have them fill it and risk them not having it (obviously when my dog's eye is shut I don't take that chance).
I tried a less expensive vet in the area but they didn't have the equipment to take XRays and do large dog surgery so each time something like that was needed I had to make another appointment somewhere else and then schedule the surgery which felt like a waste.
I tried saving on the vaccination appointments by using the clinic at Tractor Supply but it was still $99 for annual shots and no exam nor anyone that knew my dog's history.
How is everyone not spending hundreds of dollars on vet bills? There's got to be a smarter way to do this.
Thanks!
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It pays to know basic dog first aid and some OTC stuff. I have three dogs and two have special needs. Ultimately, though, you need to understand that that’s just how much vet visits cost. $50 is a pretty standard charge for an office visit.
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It pays to know basic dog first aid and some OTC stuff. I have three dogs and two have special needs. Ultimately, though, you need to understand that that’s just how much vet visits cost. $50 is a pretty standard charge for an office visit.
Thank you for your response! Do you mind if I ask how much you spend on vet bills on your dogs? I have three as well so maybe it’s unrealistic to think I can cut this expense. Appreciate your input!
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Some things you can do “watchful waiting” for and try OTC measures, but whenever in doubt, it’s best to go to the vet. Waiting can end up costing more if the situation worsens as well as making the animal suffer unnecessarily. I pay almost 70.00 Cdn just for the visit plus whatever meds are needed. I never get out of there paying less than 200.00. And I have 3 pets.
(Did you know that lots of people pharmacies will fill vet Rxs? Mostly for cheaper.)
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Adopting a pet is a big financial crapshoot. In retrospect, after a very expensive year so far (almost $2k just for an MRI!), we would've been better off purchasing a health insurance policy for our dog while she was still young and it was cheap. Would've cost $25 to $30 per month through Trupanion or similar companies and limited our exposure quite a bit.
Now that our two-year-old pup has been diagnosed with a spinal condition normally found in older dogs we have no idea when or if the expenses will stop piling up. We feel lucky to have enough money to handle it without having to make difficult decisions about her care. The only expense we've been able to reduce so far is prescriptions. The specialty vet is less expensive than her "regular" vet, and non-veterinary pharmacies are even cheaper.
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It is a little late now, but we had a poodle until about 5 years ago, and she was a fairly expensive dog to maintain as she got grass seeds burrow into her skin regularly, which sometimes needed to be removed surgically if we didn't see them in time. She also had eye issues as well.
When we got our current dog, we got a breed that is less maintenance, (and doesn't need shaving regularly). We got a kelpie, but there are other breeds that are much less prone to allergies, hip issues or whatever.
As I said, a little late now, but maybe try a different breed next time?
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It pays to know basic dog first aid and some OTC stuff. I have three dogs and two have special needs. Ultimately, though, you need to understand that that’s just how much vet visits cost. $50 is a pretty standard charge for an office visit.
Thank you for your response! Do you mind if I ask how much you spend on vet bills on your dogs? I have three as well so maybe it’s unrealistic to think I can cut this expense. Appreciate your input!
Honestly we spend about $400 a month. Heartworm and flea and tick prevention, food, and then the daily meds. My dogs are on the large side which makes weight based meds more expensive.
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I tried insurance with my previous dog, because he was my first and I didn't want cost to factor into decisions about his health. Used it a little but probably not enough to make it financially worth while. I decided not to insure the current dog who is young and healthy: I had a scare early on when it looked as though an operation might be needed but luckily the problem came right with complete rest for several weeks.
What is worth it I think is developing a good relationship with a good vet surgery. I'm lucky to have what I think is a good surgery near by and I've learnt which vets there take the most care and give the best advice and try to book appointments with them. I do go to them for things like flea and worm medication (on a discount for regular use) and always pay promptly. I think being known as a regular customer who takes the dog to them from adoption to grave helps both with getting good service and occasional discounts.
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$48 is a very reasonable price for a vet visit.
Depending on how urgent the issue is, you can always get the prescriptions from your vet and order the medicine from chewy. It sounds like you would have saved a lot doing that on this visit, but that perhaps for this particular issue your dog would have suffered waiting for the meds to ship.
Another way I save money is by emailing the vet. Our vet is happy to give advice and dispense prescriptions over email as long as the pet is current on their checkups (i.e. they have seen the pet in person somewhat recently). This does depends on the issue, though. She uses her judgement on whether a description and photo is enough, or whether she needs to see the problem in person. But when email suffices, we save the money on the office visit and can get any meds from a local pharmacy or chewy.
But honestly, some of this is just the cost of having a pet. We definitely drop $200 (or more...) on vet visits when there is an issue that can't be handled over email.
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It is a little late now, but we had a poodle until about 5 years ago, and she was a fairly expensive dog to maintain as she got grass seeds burrow into her skin regularly, which sometimes needed to be removed surgically if we didn't see them in time. She also had eye issues as well.
When we got our current dog, we got a breed that is less maintenance, (and doesn't need shaving regularly). We got a kelpie, but there are other breeds that are much less prone to allergies, hip issues or whatever.
As I said, a little late now, but maybe try a different breed next time?
I heard on a podcast the mixed breed dogs have much less health problems than pure breed dogs. It is because many seldom illnesses are on recessive genes. Pure breeds have a much smaller gene pool and therefore get more double versions of recessive genes. Mixed breeds don't have that problem.
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I also want to point out that I knew my dogs had special needs when I adopted them. All three are rescues. I chose them anyway. One of them actually take way fewer meds than when she came to live with us because correct care makes a huge difference. Another we weren't sure what long term consequences of his illness would be, but we got lucky and he's pretty healthy. The $400/mo is basic food, vaccines, and day to day medicines. Any sick visits are on top of that. One needed a 5K surgery to remove her ear canals last year and her quality of life has skyrocketed since we had that done.
Lots of mmm posters don't find that much money acceptable to spend on a pet, but we do.
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We have not found much in the way to reduce vet expenses. Our vet is good about not charging the "office visit" if it is a recheck or shots after he was just in with a health visit. We budget $200 a month for dog food and $100 for vet/meds/grooming/toys/supplies. When his sinking fund gets to our set level, we quit adding to it unless we had to dip into it.
This is for a young but large dog (under 2 and over 80 lbs). He also requires regular grooming which I do at home but my equipment requires maintenance or replacement. He's had fairly consistent problems with ear infections so we are on an expensive prescription food ATM. But meds for big dogs just cost more so even heartworm or flea/tick preventatives are just more expensive.
Having a dog is expensive but we knew that going in. Our 10 lb dog that we had for 8 years averaged $1000 a year. We spent about $150 a year on food/treats because he ate so little - the rest was all vet visits and grooming.
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I heard on a podcast the mixed breed dogs have much less health problems than pure breed dogs. It is because many seldom illnesses are on recessive genes. Pure breeds have a much smaller gene pool and therefore get more double versions of recessive genes. Mixed breeds don't have that problem.
This is true in general, but nowadays, people are breeding mixes to capture the desired traits of one or more breeds.
In the US, anything mixed with poodle (labradoodle, bernedoodle, schnoodle, yorkipoo, maltipoo, etc) is extremely popular right now. unfortunately, breeders who are selectively breeding for size, shed, or temperment are minimizing the gene pool too. it's the minimizing of the gene pool that causes the problems, as you've stated above and as I understand it as well.
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It can help to have a little doggie first aid kit handy. And research ahead of time what OTC stuff can be used. When one of our dogs got poison ivy on her face, we gave her half a baby benadryl (dose depends on size of the dog obviously) and used some OTC cream (don't remember what offhand), and that did the trick.
However if your due-in-three-weeks pregnant bitch wanders off during walk in the woods and comes back a minute later with her paw sliced open and gushing blood (my eyes have never been so wide), you don't give half a shit what it costs to pay the emergency visit fee and get her fixed up. It ended up around $300 and I'd have happily paid more.
From what I can tell, pet insurance is mostly a joke. It almost never pencils out over the long term. We've spent probably just over a grand total on emergency vet services in the past ten years including the above incident, and we have a whole pack of Australian Shepherds. I ran a quote a few weeks ago just for giggles, and they wanted $304/mo with a $250 deductible for eight dogs and did not cover preventative care at all. No.
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To answer your question "How to save on vet bills?": Don't have pets?
This stuff happens. It sucks, but it's part of the territory.
Edit:
Less snarky answer. Sorry, you hit a nerve with your question.
To a certain extent, I am unwilling to cut costs. I made a commitment to care for my cat(s) for their entire lives with me, and I take that seriously. However, within that there is some room for flexibility. I buy flea treatments online from reputable vendors, it's the same stuff that the vet has but costs less. I'm not willing to switch to an off brand however because of the increased risk to the animal.
I won't feed the cheapest available food, but I do start with the cheapest acceptable quality food. If for whatever reason the cat isn't doing well on that, then I try something else. Currently, I feed Purina One dry food and Fancy Feast wet. That's pretty much the minimum I'm willing to do, and Arwen is healthy and happy, so no reason to change.
Medically, if the cat needs to go to the vet, then I take them. I have a certain philosophy about animal care however which tends to preclude the most expensive stuff. I don't do chemo or radiation for example - if the animal gets cancer, we're likely doing palliative care. I finally found a vet in my area whose treat philosophy lines up with mine pretty well. It helps. My cats haven't needed regular medication that is easy to buy online. Arwen gets an injection of asthma meds periodically. Sibley before she died needed heart meds which wasn't too bad but the compounding into a liquid form added a bunch. It was end of life care and I knew it, so I paid it.
I do get creative with other things. Arwen loves fleece. Rather than spending gobs of money on fleece blankets, I go to the fabric store and by a couple yards of fleece and cut it to the size I need. She's happy, and I probably spent $10-20 depending on sales and how much I get. You can try to buy discounted gift cards for the pet store. That can save a decent chunk.
But really, sometimes it's just expensive. It is the price of having an animal that brings me joy.
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My suggestion is to find a new full service clinic that allows you to fill prescriptions online, and start questioning things they are charging. Politely. I usually state the obvious: "I have too many animals/failed foster parent/please take pity on me" but ask. If they can work with you (and feel like doing so) you should get an occasional break on things.
I have a vet that we love at a full service clinic about a half hour from us, but unfortunately the clinic's owner died and his family sold it to the evil empire and prices went up significantly. The medical director that had been there since the before times is very diplomatic (all the vets/tech are fantastic) but works with us on getting creative with how they charge things. I just explain up front I understand pricing is set elsewhere, but if there is anything we can avoid doing or alternatives (cheaper meds/pills instead of shot) without compromising the animal's health or the vet/animal safety, it would be greatly appreciated. We drive out of our way for them. In the event of a scary 911 emergency, we know there's a clinic less than 5 minutes from our house, but they are ONLY for emergency; once stabilized, we will be continuing the rest of the care with the regular trusted-but-further-from-us vet clinic.
I also do research online for alternatives that make sense if my pet runs into a chronic or ongoing health issue. I won't go totally nuts trying unproven/non-science backed theories but if several vet studies say "this may be a good alternative" and it's not hard or expensive or risks the animal's health or comfort levels, it's worth a shot. Like switching to a primarily wet cat food diet instead of buying the hella expensive prescription diet dry kibble that would control a pet's propensity to develop crystals/UTIs. Wet food diets with a small amount of dry food for convenience (still is a urinary tract formulation that is available from regular stores and frequently on sale) eliminated the problems completely and the cats are now healthy, and the food changes were minimal inconvenience compared to the costs (and worth it considering we also avoid the poor cat being traumatized by any more pain from UTI/vet visits).
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I heard on a podcast the mixed breed dogs have much less health problems than pure breed dogs. It is because many seldom illnesses are on recessive genes. Pure breeds have a much smaller gene pool and therefore get more double versions of recessive genes. Mixed breeds don't have that problem.
This is true in general, but nowadays, people are breeding mixes to capture the desired traits of one or more breeds.
In the US, anything mixed with poodle (labradoodle, bernedoodle, schnoodle, yorkipoo, maltipoo, etc) is extremely popular right now. unfortunately, breeders who are selectively breeding for size, shed, or temperment are minimizing the gene pool too. it's the minimizing of the gene pool that causes the problems, as you've stated above and as I understand it as well.
A poodle with bad hips crossed with a golden with bad hips is going to produce mixes with bad hips. Mixes are no guarantee of good health.
Some issues can be avoided by making careful choices. Breeds with floppy ears get more ear infections. Get a dog with prick ears if you live in a humid area. Get a dog that you can easily groom, to catch skin problems early. Train your puppy to cooperate with nail trimming. A dog with a good bite has fewer dental issues. The nice thing about a good breeder is that they care about health and will have tested for hip and elbow displasia, genetic cataracts, etc., whatever their breed is vulnerable to.
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I can't justify buying a dog from a breeder when there are so many perfectly good dogs in need of homes at shelters.
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I've learned it helps to ask if there is a less expensive medication alternative. In one case I asked and my dog was switched from a $125 antibiotic to one that cost $30 -- it worked fine. This wasn't at my regular vet, we had a weekend emergency and were at at PetsMart vet. DH did the same thing another time at another Sunday PetsMart visit.
I also ask to watch and wait. My small dog had some weird symptoms in early March -- he was clingy and was trembling in a sort of rhythmic manner. A small amount of internet research suggested full/ impacted anal glands, so we had the groomer empty them -- they said they were very full. It reduced the trembling but didn't eliminate it. I took him to the vet to have them do the glands from the inside (I suppose we're going to have to learn to do this -- this is our first small dog and we've never had this issue before). The vet was perplexed by his symptoms because he was still active and eating, had no fever, etc. She said if it was overly full glands he might be in pain, and she could give a Rx for a pain med, but then she suggested doing an X-ray to check for anything out of the ordinary. I decided I would rather watch and wait.
Like other posters, we reference the Benadryl dosage for dogs by weight -- this was first suggested by our old vet.
Our current vet office has changed up completely (we've been using this vet since 1992). I still like the vets, but everything is more expensive now that our favorite vet retired and sold the practice to another one of the vets. Clipping nails used to be complementary as long as the pet was well-behaved, and now it's $30. The vet who bought the practice is the one we knew always suggested the most interventions and testing, whereas the vet who retired always gave us ways to save money, and was more practical overall. We could look for another practice, but this one is close to our house. They aren't full service with major surgeries or anything like that anymore -- we have to drive 40 minutes to get to that vet.
I have heard of a vet that's less expensive, he's about 15 minutes away and doesn't do appointments -- it's all walk-ins and waiting. For us, the time loss probably isn't worth the lower prices.
The two dogs we have now haven't been expensive in terms of vet bills. One is a German Shepherd dog and he's our first GSD not to have chronic medical issues. The small dog is a chihuahua mix, and he's pretty healthy too. As I mentioned he's our first small dog, and wow, small dogs are less expensive to maintain! They eat less food and cost less to groom. But I guess his teeth are a bigger concern. We already had to have his baby canines extracted when his adult canines came in without the baby teeth falling out. Now they want us to get started on a small dog teeth cleaning program -- if we start before his 3rd birthday it will be $200 per year as long as we don't let more than 14 months go between cleanings. I have to research to see if that's a good price -- the vet says it would be $400 otherwise.
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@K_in_SoCal re: teeth
Virbac makes some excellent daily chews that have been stellar for the oral health of my dogs. Since starting these, I have had zero need to take them in for dental cleanings. Some fosters I have had actually had noticeable decrease in plaque and tartar. I like these (https://www.chewy.com/virbac-cet-hextra-premium-dental-dog/dp/41677)and these (https://www.chewy.com/virbac-cet-veggiedent-fr3sh-tartar/dp/41745).
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Some issues can be avoided by making careful choices. Breeds with floppy ears get more ear infections. Get a dog with prick ears if you live in a humid area. Get a dog that you can easily groom, to catch skin problems early. Train your puppy to cooperate with nail trimming. A dog with a good bite has fewer dental issues. The nice thing about a good breeder is that they care about health and will have tested for hip and elbow displasia, genetic cataracts, etc., whatever their breed is vulnerable to.
We've never bought a dog from a breeder in the past, but our next puppy will be a GSD from a reputable breeder. Our first rescue GSD had hip dysplasia and pannus, and the pannus required compounded eye drops. Our second rescue GSD had hip dysplasia, chronic infections, a neurological disorder, and her temperament was awful -- the trainer we took her to said she'd been bred badly and her nervous system was bad. Her fear aggression had to be managed her entire life, and wasn't easy despite all the trainman we did with her. We love GSDs, but we want to raise a puppy and to hopefully avoid some of the issues we've had with adopting adult dogs (destructive separation anxiety, thunder phobic, overprotective to the point of biting family members, aggression toward other dogs, chronic health issues, etc.). For the first two decades of our marriage we had mixed breeds, then moved to adopting rescue GSDs because they're my favorite dog. We're getting older now, and need our next dog to be more solid in temperament, healthy, and trained from the beginning to be a canine good citizen (in reality as well as earning his certificate).
To bring this back on topic, I believe we can save on vet bills by raising a dog that doesn't hurt himself because of separation anxiety (we had a mix who would tear her paws bloody), doesn't fight with other dogs and require medical care (or cause another dog in the household to require medical care), is certified free of hip and elbow dysplasia, comes from parents who don't carry degenerative diseases, etc.
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@K_in_SoCal re: teeth
Virbac makes some excellent daily chews that have been stellar for the oral health of my dogs. Since starting these, I have had zero need to take them in for dental cleanings. Some fosters I have had actually had noticeable decrease in plaque and tartar. I like these (https://www.chewy.com/virbac-cet-hextra-premium-dental-dog/dp/41677)and these (https://www.chewy.com/virbac-cet-veggiedent-fr3sh-tartar/dp/41745).
Thanks for the idea! Do you have small dogs? I'd love to find an answer to small dog teeth problems without yearly cleanings under anesthesia. The chihuahua mix is big for a small dog, about 14 pounds.
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No, I have three large pitbull types, but I've fostered all ages and sizes. I have friends who work in in the vet field who agree that these do help with small dog oral hygiene.
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Vets have been hurt badly clients taking their pharmacy business to the online retailers... historically the veterinarian's pharmacy represents about 25%-35% of their annual revenue but the online retailers have brought that down a bit.
So it's true that you can get the meds, preventives, etc... a little cheaper online... but guess what? Hospital costs remain the same (business loan, payroll, utilities, etc...) so guess how they make up for that lost revenue to Chewy? Over time they increase the costs of their services that can't be outsourced (surgery, office visits, diagnostics, etc...).
Who would you rather support? A local business that serves their local community? Or a large online pharmacy that serves their shareholders? If you don't support your local businesses then they won't be there.
I do have some opinions on the topic: If one cannot afford to take care of their pets (food, medication, unexpected emergencies, etc...) they should not take on the responsibility of pet ownership. Rescuing a bunch of special needs dogs and slapping on the "who rescued who" bumper sticker is all well and good and makes one feel fuzzy inside, but remember that pet ownership is a huge emotional and financial responsibility...don't do it unless you can afford it long term...and remember that medical care costs the most at the end of the pet's (and humans...) life. Prepare for this...have an emergency fund.
Veterinary medicine is real medicine... there are doctors, nurses, medicines, surgery, etc... there is a real cost for this care...plus it's a cash business so you see the full cost of care. Compare this to human medicine with a cost generally hidden by insurance and it can feeeel like veterinary medicine costs a lot more.
Shop around for vets if you must but know that in veterinary medicine you get what you pay for. Once you find a vet you like I would encourage you to support them by not buying your prescriptions online. Yes, you can "optimize" and save some money but the savings won't be thaaaat substantial over time and you're royally screwing your local vet and supporting The Man by buying your stuff online. Just a thought.
PS, a large percentage of medications, flea/tick/heartworm preventives in the online pharmacies are grey market product. Buyer beware.
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I can't justify buying a dog from a breeder when there are so many perfectly good dogs in need of homes at shelters.
Not saying you have to, just pointing it out as an option. And dogs do get returned to breeders through no fault of their own. If you (generic you) fall in love with a specific breed, like I did, you don't find the canine love of your life at a shelter very often. You may have some luck with a breed specific rescue group.
Also please remember I did say good breeders. Good breeders love their breed, consider health and temperament when they breed, and they are lucky if they break even financially. I loathe puppy mills.
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Vets have been hurt badly clients taking their pharmacy business to the online retailers... historically the veterinarian's pharmacy represents about 25%-35% of their annual revenue but the online retailers have brought that down a bit.
So it's true that you can get the meds, preventives, etc... a little cheaper online... but guess what? Hospital costs remain the same (business loan, payroll, utilities, etc...) so guess how they make up for that lost revenue to Chewy? Over time they increase the costs of their services that can't be outsourced (surgery, office visits, diagnostics, etc...).
Who would you rather support? A local business that serves their local community? Or a large online pharmacy that serves their shareholders? If you don't support your local businesses then they won't be there.
I do have some opinions on the topic: If one cannot afford to take care of their pets (food, medication, unexpected emergencies, etc...) they should not take on the responsibility of pet ownership. Rescuing a bunch of special needs dogs and slapping on the "who rescued who" bumper sticker is all well and good and makes one feel fuzzy inside, but remember that pet ownership is a huge emotional and financial responsibility...don't do it unless you can afford it long term...and remember that medical care costs the most at the end of the pet's (and humans...) life. Prepare for this...have an emergency fund.
Veterinary medicine is real medicine... there are doctors, nurses, medicines, surgery, etc... there is a real cost for this care...plus it's a cash business so you see the full cost of care. Compare this to human medicine with a cost generally hidden by insurance and it can feeeel like veterinary medicine costs a lot more.
Shop around for vets if you must but know that in veterinary medicine you get what you pay for. Once you find a vet you like I would encourage you to support them by not buying your prescriptions online. Yes, you can "optimize" and save some money but the savings won't be thaaaat substantial over time and you're royally screwing your local vet and supporting The Man by buying your stuff online. Just a thought.
PS, a large percentage of medications, flea/tick/heartworm preventives in the online pharmacies are grey market product. Buyer beware.
I bought meds mostly from our vet until they got bought out by a national corporation, and the prices went way up. A tube of hairball goo used to cost $9 at the vet now costs $16 and that led me to discover I can buy the exact same brand/item online for $6-7. I am willing to pay a bit more to support a clinic I like and to have the convenience of getting the product instantly, but there are limits.
Supporting a local business is one thing, but getting screwed over by them is quite another. They must all be aware of online pharmacies enough to check pricing and maybe price things slightly higher instead of double/triple.
I think if you're taking care of just one pet, the premiums of using a vet clinic pharmacy exclusively isn't as painful so more likely to just go with their stock/pricing, but when you have several pets, you have to look for better deals.
ETA: To be clear, I am not disagreeing with the idea that vet clinics need to make a profit, but charging double or more the price for meds/supplies seems like a shooting-themselves-in-the-foot situation. It isn't about being too poor to afford basic care. But just because we may have the funds to pay double or triple the amount doesn't mean we should.
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Rescuing a bunch of special needs dogs and slapping on the "who rescued who" bumper sticker is all well and good and makes one feel fuzzy inside, but remember that pet ownership is a huge emotional and financial responsibility...do it unless you can afford it long term...and remember that med.
I think that at least in this thread people know that, but it’s shocking how resentful some pet owners are about basic care costs
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Rescuing a bunch of special needs dogs and slapping on the "who rescued who" bumper sticker is all well and good and makes one feel fuzzy inside, but remember that pet ownership is a huge emotional and financial responsibility...do it unless you can afford it long term...and remember that med.
I think that at least in this thread people know that, but it’s shocking how resentful some pet owners are about basic care costs
I think that's a great way to put it...resentment... they "know" pet ownership is expensive but they resent when it's actually time to pay. In my experience there are a lot (over 20%?) who really can't afford to have pets because they can't properly care for them (food, medical care, etc...) and will sometimes opt to put an otherwise fixable pet to sleep because they can't pay the cost of care and they can't bear the thought of surrendering the pet and having someone else own/love it.
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Makes me sad because it feels like treating a sentient being like an object. I won’t force the Sarah McLaughlin pictures of my puppos “before” on you all, but it’s been really rewarding to see how appropriate care can transform them both physically and emotionally.
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I can't justify buying a dog from a breeder when there are so many perfectly good dogs in need of homes at shelters.
Not saying you have to, just pointing it out as an option. And dogs do get returned to breeders through no fault of their own. If you (generic you) fall in love with a specific breed, like I did, you don't find the canine love of your life at a shelter very often. You may have some luck with a breed specific rescue group.
Also please remember I did say good breeders. Good breeders love their breed, consider health and temperament when they breed, and they are lucky if they break even financially. I loathe puppy mills.
Oh hello! I don't have all the numbers in front of me, but we came out behind on our last litter, roughly broke even on the one before that, and came out ahead on the previous one to that. I worked out all the time we spent and it worked out to almost a dollar an hour. And my GF basically takes 2-3 months off work each time.
If you're doing everything right, it's a really bad way to make money. If you're doing everything right.
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I must admit, reading stories about vets always makes me appreciate mine more. I know they are not the cheapest in town overall, but I appreciate their continued willingness to offer cheaper alternatives when appropriate and options on all things. Of course, with four dogs currently and multiple adopted hospice cases over the years, we've given them plenty of money, so maybe they're just trying to give back a little. ha!
Like someone up thread, we also have a monthly budget for vet care that we stick into savings each month until I hit the comfort threshold (varies depending on how many dogs and their ages, currently a little higher with two dogs 10+). That fund helps even out the unexpected vet visit costs and as well as cover the the yearly well checks/vaccinations/HW preventative.
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I can't justify buying a dog from a breeder when there are so many perfectly good dogs in need of homes at shelters.
Not saying you have to, just pointing it out as an option. And dogs do get returned to breeders through no fault of their own. If you (generic you) fall in love with a specific breed, like I did, you don't find the canine love of your life at a shelter very often. You may have some luck with a breed specific rescue group.
Also please remember I did say good breeders. Good breeders love their breed, consider health and temperament when they breed, and they are lucky if they break even financially. I loathe puppy mills.
Oh hello! I don't have all the numbers in front of me, but we came out behind on our last litter, roughly broke even on the one before that, and came out ahead on the previous one to that. I worked out all the time we spent and it worked out to almost a dollar an hour. And my GF basically takes 2-3 months off work each time.
If you're doing everything right, it's a really bad way to make money. If you're doing everything right.
So much this. In my favorite breed there are the hip x-rays, and the elbow x-rays, and the eye checks, on top of all the regular vet costs. And the groomng equipment. And the showing, because you want to be meeting breed standards and that means Championships*. And because they are a working breed, all the time and money for that. You are going to get so rich on $1/hour. ;-)
And that is why I hate puppy mills. Because how can they be profitable if they are doing everything right? They can't.
*This is most breeds. I know someone who had Alaskan huskies and they are such a racing breed that they are not CKC registered, because the traits that are good for sledding are actually selected against in the show ring.
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Seriously, if there was a way to reduce vet costs without causing suffering to the little critters that depend on our care I'd love to hear about this, too.
I think I have already spent around 3-4k bucks on vet bills this year *cba to check*. Mostly on dental treatment and end-of-life care for my elderly pets. Love my vets, they are really great, but good care does add up at senior pet age.
Still, I rather pay for a good vet and suitable care, then skimping on treatment and let the beasts dependent on us suffer.
I always try to cut my budget, but I just accept that I rather live on pasta and water for months than to let the little critters suffer knowingly.
Sorry, OP, I know this doesn't solve your budget issue, but I do get your dilemma, even though I don't have a solution. Mind you, I would at least move to dry food for the ferals, as well (they can compensate and it should shave off at least a few bucks).
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If my dogs need monthly medications I buy from the vet the first time and then have the RX sent to Petmeds. For years we had 4 dogs mostly old but it got too expensive. When they died we adopted 2 younger dogs. Being retired that’s the best choice for us. We give them the medical care they need. We have spent thousands on surgeries, dentals and medications.
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I save a lot on vet bills after completing a 4-year veterinary degree and buying a practice.
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"How is everyone not spending hundreds of dollars on vet bills? There's got to be a smarter way to do this."
We are spending less because we are down to 2 (had many more at one time)
I learned early on that timely vet care, and doing what's available to keep them healthy, paid.
I avoid vet visits by feeding a good quality dog food (Nutro's), when our numbers were higher - giving the vaccines myself (however the Rabies MUST be given by the vet) and when there were every 3 yr vaccines (happened when we were down to 5), doing that at the vet's. That was cheaper than buy a pack of vaccines.
I 'know' my dogs and saved money by knowing there was a problem before the vet knew (pyometra) - that really cut down on the cost!
I followed the vet's call and doing a surgery on a different dog, that usually has a 7 day stay at the hospital - they called me the next day and said he was ready to go! This was because we did surgery right away - easier and cheaper recuperating, at home.
Instead of the monthly heartworm preventive available at the vet's, I give a generic, farm product that is way cheaper and just as effective. The vet knows I do this, but he knows my dogs come in whenever there is a problem.
MY dog was having old age seizures, and I had the choice of 2 tabs. The first they've been using for years. It is cheaper, with a bit more risk and requires periodic blood work to make sure the dog is handling it. But, there is a human product they will prescribe, but since it costs so much more, most people opt for the cheaper med.
I opted for the higher, that doesn't require any blood check - it is given to human children. They don't stock it at the vet's, so he writes a script and we got it at Costgo. We are not members there, but by law they have to make their pharmacy open to anyone. Paying more for the med, but not at the vet's for bloodwork, made this med about the same price in the long run.
I trim the dogs' toenails myself, and schedule dentals regularly - prevention that pays off.
That's all I can think of right now.
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"How is everyone not spending hundreds of dollars on vet bills? There's got to be a smarter way to do this."
I trim the dogs' toenails myself, and schedule dentals regularly - prevention that pays off.
That's all I can think of right now.
Your approach is very sensible. I find a lot of people's pet costs aren't vet bills, just daily expenses. If you feed a high quality food the dogs (and cats) need less, the total cost remains the same, and they stay healthier.
Grooming - if the owner can do all the grooming that is a huge savings. My dog would have been over $100 at a groomer's, bath and blow out. I did it myself. Nails - most people don't trim them enough, you should never hear the dog's nails click on the floor, it affects how they walk. So first click, get out the nail clippers. Dog is healthier because the nails get trimmed without the slowdown of making an appointment and getting to the groomer's, and you save money. Same with teeth, learn to brush teeth and get treats that clean teeth, and your dental bills go way down.
It is like having a lawn, you look after it yourself, or you pay someone to do it. Except pets are a lot more fun than lawns.
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Wife, Nurto used to be a good food and I used it for years. Then they got bought out by Mars and changed the formula. It’s now linked to congestive heart failure even in younger dogs. I lost a dog to it. Coincidentally I became friends with a ex dog show breeder that belonged to a closed group on Facebook that’s following research on dog food and CHF. The only food that doesn’t comes from the big 5. I had purposely avoided them. I either feed Purina One or Royal canine.
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Are you talking about the link between grainfree diets and DCM?
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Not just grain free. The big five have full time PhD nutritionists that conduct trials of food on dogs that are well treated. No one else can afford to do that. Many grain formulas are also hurting dogs. Many breeders of expensive show dogs have switched. I actually was surprised.
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Oh I’d be interested in links if you have any! I feed Purina Pro Plan to my pups and fosters. The difference is obvious within two weeks.
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Oh I’d be interested in links if you have any! I feed Purina Pro Plan to my pups and fosters. The difference is obvious within two weeks.
Here's the FDA report. While 91% of the foods associated with DCM were grain-free, not all were.
I'm a veterinarian and I feed ProPlan.
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The low cost pet hack is to care for animals you do not own. Foster for an animal shelter - there's a good chance on top of medical care, you'll get all supplies for free. Watch other people's pets, and maybe you can even get paid.
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Oh I’d be interested in links if you have any! I feed Purina Pro Plan to my pups and fosters. The difference is obvious within two weeks.
Here's the FDA report. While 91% of the foods associated with DCM were grain-free, not all were.
I'm a veterinarian and I feed ProPlan.
Link please?
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Thanks it’s proplan. One of my Maltese didn’t do well on it so I switched them to royal canine for Maltese. So glad a veterinarian spoke up.
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My suggestions are to 1) get a breed that does not have high incidence of health conditions, and 2) feed high quality food.
Then, you might want to shop around for a good vet.
Also, protect your pet from injuries, don't let it get into things that it shouldn't, etc.
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Oh I’d be interested in links if you have any! I feed Purina Pro Plan to my pups and fosters. The difference is obvious within two weeks.
Here's the FDA report. While 91% of the foods associated with DCM were grain-free, not all were.
I'm a veterinarian and I feed ProPlan.
Link please?
Oops, the link didn't attach!
https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/outbreaks-and-advisories/fda-investigation-potential-link-between-certain-diets-and-canine-dilated-cardiomyopathy
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Instead of the monthly heartworm preventive available at the vet's, I give a generic, farm product that is way cheaper and just as effective. The vet knows I do this, but he knows my dogs come in whenever there is a problem.
What do you use for heartworm?
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This has been mentioned, but the way I "save" is by creating a sinking fund for vet expenses. That way I don't have to worry about the money being there when it's needed.
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Instead of the monthly heartworm preventive available at the vet's, I give a generic, farm product that is way cheaper and just as effective. The vet knows I do this, but he knows my dogs come in whenever there is a problem.
What do you use for heartworm?
Butting in- at the rescue I work with, they often use ivermectin for livestock because of the volume they go through. It’s not safe for all breeds and you have to sure of the dosing. It is NOT labeled for pet use.
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I've got an elderly cat, so I feel your pain. He's fairly healthy, because I spend a lot of money on his diet (proper raw diet with supplements), but he did have a chronic respiratory thing last year that I thought was going to polish him off. He was on medication that cost $60 a month, for a year or so. I ended up buying it online. Vet visits also got cheaper as they became followups and not new condition appts. He does have insurance but I've limited that to diagnostic and surgery only. If your animal needs ongoing regular vet visits, I would negotiate with the vet. See if you can get 10% off or something.
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Instead of the monthly heartworm preventive available at the vet's, I give a generic, farm product that is way cheaper and just as effective. The vet knows I do this, but he knows my dogs come in whenever there is a problem.
What do you use for heartworm?
Butting in- at the rescue I work with, they often use ivermectin for livestock because of the volume they go through. It’s not safe for all breeds and you have to sure of the dosing. It is NOT labeled for pet use.
I've been through this one with my chickens. Ivermectin isn't labelled for pet use because no one has done studies on it. They would much rather charge you more for tiny vials of pet products. My vet unofficially suggested I use a drop of Ivermectin or Cydectin on my chickens for lice. I did some research online and found that many chicken owners use it, so went ahead with no ill effects - and I checked on the little buggers every hour all night long after I dosed them while they were roosting.
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Ivermectin is a pretty common agent for parasites. Even people can use it, but the preparation matters.
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What do you use for heartworm?
[/quote]
I do not feel comfortable playing 'vet,' but with some research, and common sense, it can be figured out.
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Mud, it was a closed Facebook group so you have to be invited. I belonged for awhile but after learning a lot I have lost track of it. Because these dogs were young we bought pet insurance through healthy paws. It costs us 77/month for the 2 of them. They pay within 10 days.
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I can't justify buying a dog from a breeder when there are so many perfectly good dogs in need of homes at shelters.
If there is a specific breed that someone wants, most breeds have a Rescue program, and dogs are usually available from them. I raised basenjis, and we were always contacting shelters that got one, and usually worked with the shelter to get the dog into our rescue program. Why? 75% of people who look into getting a basenji, after doing their research and working with a rescue coordinator - change their mind!
I raised/showed them for 10 years, and required anyone interested in the breed, to visit. At the time, I had 8, living in the house with us. One time I had a husband and wife come, and I could tell he was smitten, but as they were leaving, I heard his wife say, quietly, "Why would anyone do this?????
I spent a lot of time talking to people OUT of the breed!
I know there are other breeds with good breed clubs, dedicated to helping their breed through any health issues it may have. I'm going to share a story that has resulted in the Basenji Club of America being named in our will:
Basenis have lived on the African continent for years, think back to the time of the Pharoahs. In the 1940's a couple were brought to Great Britain, and then some came to the US. Africans spoke of the 'drinking water' disease some of the dogs had, and in Europe and the US, it got to 20% or so by the time I was active in the breed.
It's Fanconi, they don't exhibit symptoms until there 7 or so (they pee and drink a lot), not an age to start breeding them. In the 80's, a human anesthesiologist, and basenji owner whose dog got fanconi, developed a protocol for people to follow if their dog was diagnosed. Something about the acidity of the blood. It was refined over the years, and dogs were dying of old age. BUT, it required lots of vitamins, and up to 30 bicarbonate tablets be given - per day! These are smart dogs, and to get a tablet of baking soda, let alone 30, into the dog, was a challenge.
We used to test our dogs' urine for sugar once a month, as spilling sugar was the first sign.
Since the 1970's or so, the BCOA was amassing money to get fanconi in basenis studied, hopefully to first, find out how if was passed on - records were kept, lots of them, because we knew there was a family link. The scientists told us to hang on to the money - they weren't ready for it yet.
2005 or so, they were ready, and they found out fanconi in basenjis was a simple recessive. This meant, as breeders, we could eliminate fanconi in our litters.
There were positives, clears, and recessive dogs, so no dogs had to be eliminated from a breeding program, if it was bred to the appropriate fanconi tested dog. I used it a couple of years in my breeding program - then I had a brain injury and I was no longer breeding or showing. When I was breeding, I tested every dog I had, and none were positive, got lucky there. The test was a blood test, but now it's a cheek swab. Knowing the parents' status could cancel out fanconi of the pups.
I got out before I heard what the response was, but they got a inquiry from a human doctor. At the time, there were 300 children worldwide that had fanconi. Since they were spread all over the world, any information would be valuable.
THAT is why, in specific cases, buying from a GOOD breeders sometimes is the way to go.
One thing I did, when I sold a puppy, was have a contract signed stating that if the dog got fanconi, all of the purchase price would be returned. Also it said if for ANY reason they no longer wanted the dog, no matter the age or the reason, I wanted it back. I did get 2 back, and re-homed them.
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playing 'vet,’
Good phrasing! I am glad the new president quit the practice of some that because I was always worried people would try it without caution
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I have a few thoughts! After years of resisting (mine), I warmed to the idea and we adopted a pet in November. A senior dog. She's a delight to our family! She's a cranky old Chihuahua mix who barks at strangers and all dogs, nips at anyone but the husband when it's time for bed, and is very territorial.
I have lost count of what we have spent so far from adoption to regular vet bills, medication, and the hernia surgery (that was $5000). I remember being one of those MMM people who just thought "don't have a pet". Just like kids, you save money if you don't have one. However, really, if anyone should be adopting a senior dog who needs surgery, it's us. We can afford it.
So, medications are expensive. Vets go through years of education and training and still...don't make much money. Burnout is huge, and the stress is really high. Every vet place has assistants, computer systems, overhead. Some do emergency care. It's not cheap. I expect to be paid for my experience and expertise, so should they.
I have heard that our local Humane society has reduced rates on some things and they can recommend certain vets that will do low cost vaccinations.
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One thing I forgot to mention is vaccines can be had for a discount at weekend clinics at Petco. I don't remember the exact pricing last time we went, but it was a lot less than at a vet.
Bonus: We showed up with a dog half an hour before the clinic was supposed to be over and got a 20% off coupon for next time since they were already packed up and gone. There was no fine print on the coupon about a limit or anything (would not matter to most people).
We showed up the next weekend with two cars, a litter of six, and five adult dogs. We got everyone current, and for 20% off the already low price. It was a circus but we got it done.
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Instead of the monthly heartworm preventive available at the vet's, I give a generic, farm product that is way cheaper and just as effective. The vet knows I do this, but he knows my dogs come in whenever there is a problem.
What do you use for heartworm?
Butting in- at the rescue I work with, they often use ivermectin for livestock because of the volume they go through. It’s not safe for all breeds and you have to sure of the dosing. It is NOT labeled for pet use.
I've been through this one with my chickens. Ivermectin isn't labelled for pet use because no one has done studies on it. They would much rather charge you more for tiny vials of pet products. My vet unofficially suggested I use a drop of Ivermectin or Cydectin on my chickens for lice. I did some research online and found that many chicken owners use it, so went ahead with no ill effects - and I checked on the little buggers every hour all night long after I dosed them while they were roosting.
Ivermectin is usually safe for dogs -- we used to use it for demodectic mange -- but there are some dogs that are extraordinarily sensitive to it. We usually recommend caution or prior MDR1 gene testing before using it at the quantities often prescribed. The amount in Heartgard Plus as labeled is safe for these dogs but I can't vouch for the effectiveness of a low dose of the cow stuff.
Here is a paper about backyard poultry. https://vet.osu.edu/sites/vet.osu.edu/files/documents/extension/Egg%20residue%20considerations%20during%20the%20treatment%20of%20backyard%20poultry%202015.pdf
I think pyrethrins or permethrin are the usual recommendation for ectoparasites of chickens. They're approved and do not show residues in meat or eggs. I prefer pyrethroids over organophosphates and organochlorines. Natural pyrethrins can be considered organic.
I offer heartworm prevention that is approved, still seems to be effective, and easily dosed, and I'm willing to pay more money for those qualities. My dog sees his heartworm preventative and flea med as tasty treats he gets on a special day.
(Nothing here is advice for any particular patient or farm, just general considerations)
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Instead of the monthly heartworm preventive available at the vet's, I give a generic, farm product that is way cheaper and just as effective. The vet knows I do this, but he knows my dogs come in whenever there is a problem.
What do you use for heartworm?
Butting in- at the rescue I work with, they often use ivermectin for livestock because of the volume they go through. It’s not safe for all breeds and you have to sure of the dosing. It is NOT labeled for pet use.
I've been through this one with my chickens. Ivermectin isn't labelled for pet use because no one has done studies on it. They would much rather charge you more for tiny vials of pet products. My vet unofficially suggested I use a drop of Ivermectin or Cydectin on my chickens for lice. I did some research online and found that many chicken owners use it, so went ahead with no ill effects - and I checked on the little buggers every hour all night long after I dosed them while they were roosting.
Ivermectin is usually safe for dogs -- we used to use it for demodectic mange -- but there are some dogs that are extraordinarily sensitive to it. We usually recommend caution or prior MDR1 gene testing before using it at the quantities often prescribed. The amount in Heartgard Plus as labeled is safe for these dogs but I can't vouch for the effectiveness of a low dose of the cow stuff.
Here is a paper about backyard poultry. https://vet.osu.edu/sites/vet.osu.edu/files/documents/extension/Egg%20residue%20considerations%20during%20the%20treatment%20of%20backyard%20poultry%202015.pdf
I think pyrethrins or permethrin are the usual recommendation for ectoparasites of chickens. They're approved and do not show residues in meat or eggs. I prefer pyrethroids over organophosphates and organochlorines. Natural pyrethrins can be considered organic.
I offer heartworm prevention that is approved, still seems to be effective, and easily dosed, and I'm willing to pay more money for those qualities. My dog sees his heartworm preventative and flea med as tasty treats he gets on a special day.
(Nothing here is advice for any particular patient or farm, just general considerations)
I'm not worried about residue in eggs. No one is worried about residue in meat or milk when cows are treated. Or when sheep, goats etc etc are treated. This is a farming country. Drenches like ivermectin and cydectin are advertised on prime time tv. Even a suburban vet knows what it can and can't be used for, regardless of what the manufacturers guidelines say.
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Drenches like ivermectin and cydectin are advertised on prime time tv. Even a suburban vet knows what it can and can't be used for, regardless of what the manufacturers guidelines say.
Cydectin has a proven zero meat or milk withdrawal time in cattle but Ivomec has no approved milk withdrawal time and is not approved for dairy cattle.
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Drenches like ivermectin and cydectin are advertised on prime time tv. Even a suburban vet knows what it can and can't be used for, regardless of what the manufacturers guidelines say.
Cydectin has a proven zero meat or milk withdrawal time in cattle but Ivomec has no approved milk withdrawal time and is not approved for dairy cattle.
Ivermectin is used for parasite control in people. You know that, right? It's sold under Soolantra and used for scabies, amongst other things. It's not approved for breast feeding women either. Since I'm not breastfeeding, I'm really not worried about any residue in eggs.
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Just coming in to share this with those who may not quite understand what it takes to become a veterinarian (in the US, it's slightly different in other countries):
Schooling includes four years of a bachelor's degree in things like microbiology, biology, molecular biology, etc. with completion of a specific set of pre-requisite courses. Then four years of extremely rigorous veterinary school in which students have to learn everything about every species besides humans. Then some choose to do internships (where you make less than the average waiter or entry-level HVAC technician), and others choose to specialize by doing a three-year residency and sitting for extraordinarily rigorous board examinations.
The debt-to-income ratio for veterinarians is the highest of any health profession. From the American Veterinary Medical Association: "The harsh reality is that the average educational debt for 2016 veterinary school graduates including those with zero debt was $143,757.82. The average for only those 2016 veterinary school graduates with debt is $167,534.89 and over 20% has at least $200,000 in debt."
That's not even touching the fact that even basic "family doc" veterinary clinics these days need to be equipped with sophisticated bloodwork machines, x-ray and ultrasound machines, anesthesia and monitoring equipment, and a wide range of drugs and therapeutic interventions for between 2 and 6 species of animals. This isn't the world of All Creatures Great and Small where all you need is a stethoscope and a giant bottle of penicillin. When you deprive veterinarians of bread-and-butter income from pharmacy and prescription diet items, the money needs to be made up somewhere else because vets can't guilt the utility company into keeping the lights on without getting paid because puppies are cute. Everyone can't buy everything from Chewy and then expect an office visit to be $50...in what universe does that math work for a veterinarian trying to run a small business that allows them to pay off their massive educational debt and make a reasonable living for their 8 years of sacrifice to get that degree. Financial stress and compassion fatigue are two things that lead to the high (and growing) problem of suicide in the profession. https://time.com/5670965/veterinarian-suicide-help/
I understand we're all here to talk about saving a buck, but as with things that impact the environment (single-use plastics, etc.) it's important to consider the REAL COST, not just the PRICE. If people want veterinarians to be around when they need them and to have life-saving advanced medical equipment, it has to get paid for somehow. It doesn't work if everyone thinks it's everyone else's job to do that.
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Just coming in to share this with those who may not quite understand what it takes to become a veterinarian (in the US, it's slightly different in other countries):
Schooling includes four years of a bachelor's degree in things like microbiology, biology, molecular biology, etc. with completion of a specific set of pre-requisite courses. Then four years of extremely rigorous veterinary school in which students have to learn everything about every species besides humans. Then some choose to do internships (where you make less than the average waiter or entry-level HVAC technician), and others choose to specialize by doing a three-year residency and sitting for extraordinarily rigorous board examinations.
The debt-to-income ratio for veterinarians is the highest of any health profession. From the American Veterinary Medical Association: "The harsh reality is that the average educational debt for 2016 veterinary school graduates including those with zero debt was $143,757.82. The average for only those 2016 veterinary school graduates with debt is $167,534.89 and over 20% has at least $200,000 in debt."
That's not even touching the fact that even basic "family doc" veterinary clinics these days need to be equipped with sophisticated bloodwork machines, x-ray and ultrasound machines, anesthesia and monitoring equipment, and a wide range of drugs and therapeutic interventions for between 2 and 6 species of animals. This isn't the world of All Creatures Great and Small where all you need is a stethoscope and a giant bottle of penicillin. When you deprive veterinarians of bread-and-butter income from pharmacy and prescription diet items, the money needs to be made up somewhere else because vets can't guilt the utility company into keeping the lights on without getting paid because puppies are cute. Everyone can't buy everything from Chewy and then expect an office visit to be $50...in what universe does that math work for a veterinarian trying to run a small business that allows them to pay off their massive educational debt and make a reasonable living for their 8 years of sacrifice to get that degree. Financial stress and compassion fatigue are two things that lead to the high (and growing) problem of suicide in the profession. https://time.com/5670965/veterinarian-suicide-help/
I understand we're all here to talk about saving a buck, but as with things that impact the environment (single-use plastics, etc.) it's important to consider the REAL COST, not just the PRICE. If people want veterinarians to be around when they need them and to have life-saving advanced medical equipment, it has to get paid for somehow. It doesn't work if everyone thinks it's everyone else's job to do that.
Thank you for writing this...I was trying to get at this same point a few weeks ago but nobody wanted to hear it.
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Also, if you do get vaccines or testing done by a pop-up clinic, save your records. It is difficult or impossible to track down the records from those clinics. We can't vouch for undocumented vaccines on health certificates or to boarding facilities.
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Sorry to bring up an old topic, but if anyone is still reading this, does anyone express their dog's anal glands by themselves?
I've sort of accepted that my dog is going to require this service on a pretty regular basis, and I'm okay paying another $37 every 1-2 months so that he's not suffering. But if I'm unable to stick my own finger up his ass and express those glands myself, it will put a huge damper on some of my post-retirement extended travel plans.
Just wondering if there's any advice along these lines?
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Sorry to bring up an old topic, but if anyone is still reading this, does anyone express their dog's anal glands by themselves?
I've sort of accepted that my dog is going to require this service on a pretty regular basis, and I'm okay paying another $37 every 1-2 months so that he's not suffering. But if I'm unable to stick my own finger up his ass and express those glands myself, it will put a huge damper on some of my post-retirement extended travel plans.
Just wondering if there's any advice along these lines?
I suspect YouTube has some interesting videos on the topics... kind of like the canine version of those blackhead-popping videos...
Eeeew...
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If I'm unable to stick my own finger up his ass and express those glands myself, it will put a huge damper on some of my post-retirement extended travel plans.
Just wondering if there's any advice along these lines?
If you're a regular customer of your vet/groomer (I think groomers do this too? Ask them if they do butt stuff), then you could ask them to help you solve this problem. Understanding that you'll be traveling with your dog, they may be willing to show you how to do it. Even a "hands on" demo with your own dog.
Or if there's a vet-tech you're friendly with, they may be willing to show you outside the office.
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Groomers are only allowed to express them from the outside. Only a vet or vet technician can do it from the inside. It’s not really a do itself thing as you can damage the anal gland and then the dog can’t control their poop and it just falls out when they walk or relax.
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Sorry to bring up an old topic, but if anyone is still reading this, does anyone express their dog's anal glands by themselves?
I've sort of accepted that my dog is going to require this service on a pretty regular basis, and I'm okay paying another $37 every 1-2 months so that he's not suffering. But if I'm unable to stick my own finger up his ass and express those glands myself, it will put a huge damper on some of my post-retirement extended travel plans.
Just wondering if there's any advice along these lines?
Yep. Luckily I get to bring home nitrile gloves from work and somehow her gland discharge doesn't have a strong smell.
You do need to be careful to not inflame the area. Our vet was more than happy to show me how to do it.
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It is a little late now, but we had a poodle until about 5 years ago, and she was a fairly expensive dog to maintain as she got grass seeds burrow into her skin regularly, which sometimes needed to be removed surgically if we didn't see them in time. She also had eye issues as well.
When we got our current dog, we got a breed that is less maintenance, (and doesn't need shaving regularly). We got a kelpie, but there are other breeds that are much less prone to allergies, hip issues or whatever.
As I said, a little late now, but maybe try a different breed next time?
I heard on a podcast the mixed breed dogs have much less health problems than pure breed dogs. It is because many seldom illnesses are on recessive genes. Pure breeds have a much smaller gene pool and therefore get more double versions of recessive genes. Mixed breeds don't have that problem.
I have found this to be the case. I have had all rescue dogs or cats. In general they were all pretty problem free and lived to old age. The only exception was our chow mix, who developed a seizure disorder in middle age. One of our rescue cats came with many problems (fleas, worm infection, mouth infection) so she needed extra help at the beginning but was easy to maintain afterwards.
Regular checkups and shots for pets is necessary for their health and should be built into the cost of having a pet. As others said some medications can be filled at a pharmacist or internet pet supplier, but I only do that if it is something like flea medication where I need refills. If you like your vet, buying meds through them helps keep the lights on. There are some things you can do at home like grooming, cutting nails, etc; can save costs there.
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Sorry to bring up an old topic, but if anyone is still reading this, does anyone express their dog's anal glands by themselves?
I've sort of accepted that my dog is going to require this service on a pretty regular basis, and I'm okay paying another $37 every 1-2 months so that he's not suffering. But if I'm unable to stick my own finger up his ass and express those glands myself, it will put a huge damper on some of my post-retirement extended travel plans.
Just wondering if there's any advice along these lines?
Yep. Luckily I get to bring home nitrile gloves from work and somehow her gland discharge doesn't have a strong smell.
You do need to be careful to not inflame the area. Our vet was more than happy to show me how to do it.
My vet is happy to show me and I've had two lessons so far, but I chicken out at the last minute or can't commit. I get my lubed-up, gloved, finger to the anus, and try to get in, but my dog is puckering up so tight, I am afraid to push too hard. two days ago, I thought I was in, but couldn't find the gland, so I quit and then realized, I don't think I was actually in. I think it's like the pillsbury dough-boy. I push my finger in and "think" it's inside, but it's just depressing the area.
I intend to keep trying, but when I give it a go and don't succeed, I want to make sure to give him a few days to recover so I don't bruise him or agitate the area too much. And then he stops scooting for a few days, so I think "maybe I got some without realizing it"???
I've watched tons of videos on youtube and had walk throughs by the vet and again by the vet techs. It's really just a matter of me getting the confidence and the "feel" for it.
The other thing is that my dog doesn't really fight me over it. It honestly seems as if he wants me to succeed at this. so...we're gonna keep trying. Was just wondering if anyone else had some advice on getting through this roadblock.
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I once had a dog with a medical situation that required occasional unplanned and quick rectal administration of a liquid drug. We had a thin rubber hose for insertion, and then would push the liquid through the hose.
If you're having trouble finding your way in, maybe a little leader hose like that would help. It'd be easier to ensure it went in the right place, and then your gloved finger could follow alongside.
Of course, I'm not a vet, so maybe run this idea by them first. (And maybe they have these little hoses and could give you one.)
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I once had a dog with a medical situation that required occasional unplanned and quick rectal administration of a liquid drug. We had a thin rubber hose for insertion, and then would push the liquid through the hose.
If you're having trouble finding your way in, maybe a little leader hose like that would help. It'd be easier to ensure it went in the right place, and then your gloved finger could follow alongside.
Of course, I'm not a vet, so maybe run this idea by them first. (And maybe they have these little hoses and could give you one.)
Did you have any trouble getting it in? KNowing it was in far enough but not too far? Seems like a good idea to me.
Sorry...I know this is gross to many. I'm just trying to do this with as little anxiety for my pup as possible. When I look at the size of his turds compared to the size of my finger, I'm pretty sure I won't be hurting him.
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I once had a dog with a medical situation that required occasional unplanned and quick rectal administration of a liquid drug. We had a thin rubber hose for insertion, and then would push the liquid through the hose.
If you're having trouble finding your way in, maybe a little leader hose like that would help. It'd be easier to ensure it went in the right place, and then your gloved finger could follow alongside.
Of course, I'm not a vet, so maybe run this idea by them first. (And maybe they have these little hoses and could give you one.)
Did you have any trouble getting it in? KNowing it was in far enough but not too far? Seems like a good idea to me.
Sorry...I know this is gross to many. I'm just trying to do this with as little anxiety for my pup as possible. When I look at the size of his turds compared to the size of my finger, I'm pretty sure I won't be hurting him.
Gotchya. The psychological hurdle is real. Maybe focusing on the bolded part would help? There's really non way to go too far, your finger is definitely shorter than the GI tract.
Breathe, you can do it.
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Did you have any trouble getting it in? Knowing it was in far enough but not too far? Seems like a good idea to me.
I think we were successful. The liquid medication didn't immediately come back out or anything.
Dog was having seizures, so we didn't really get her opinion of the situation, but I can't imagine it injured her in any way.
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It’s definitely something my assistants learn early on, so it’s not difficult. There are three things to think about.
1. Perineal hernia. It’s not common but you can hurt them if you don’t know about it.
2. Excessive pressure. You can rupture the sac and that material is going to cause an abscess.
3. Pain and discomfort. Not being skilled means you might abuse the delicate rectal mucosa and leave it feeling sore. This might not be good for your relationship with your dog.
Aside from that, a professional might also identify a tumor or abscess.
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Sorry to bring up an old topic, but if anyone is still reading this, does anyone express their dog's anal glands by themselves?
I've sort of accepted that my dog is going to require this service on a pretty regular basis, and I'm okay paying another $37 every 1-2 months so that he's not suffering. But if I'm unable to stick my own finger up his ass and express those glands myself, it will put a huge damper on some of my post-retirement extended travel plans.
Just wondering if there's any advice along these lines?
What is his diet?
When we adopted our dog, he had to be expressed every 3-4 weeks and he was at the vet's office at least once a month (diarrhea, vomiting, diarrhea AND vomiting). Everyone there knows his name. In less than 9 months, we were up to almost $2k (incl 5 teeth extraction). We switched him to home cooked diet and the fiber from the vegetables helped him expressed himself. We didn't have to get his anal gland expressed for about 6 months-ish.
His previous vet always told me to feed commercial, but that's normal since they have Science Diet's pamphlets all over the office.
We switched to a holistic vet. Saw her once last year for physical exam, blood and stool tests. Haven't seen her since. I also learned holistic approach to deal with his common issues (vomiting and loose stool) so that saves us some money and saves him the unnecessary stress going to the vet's office.
Improve their diet, save on vet's costs. Feel free to PM me, I'm happy to share what I've learned.